Jump to content

Estman: reducing Anafranil, withdrawal symptoms


Estman

Recommended Posts

Can Anafran be used to prolong the healing time of cold viruses?
I had severe sneezing and runny nose (probably rhinovirus) for 3-4 days
At the same time watery eyes and as if inflamed (eyes swollen and corners broken)
For 5 days I looked to be better and did half a day of work
In the afternoon, extreme weakness and fatigue developed
There is also depression and a feeling of hopelessness.
Along with this, great fear and anxiety and compulsions arose
Since I am currently keeping the dose stable for a long time, there can be no withdrawal symptom.
I have learned about withdrawal symptoms, but now I am in demand

Xanax 0,5mg           1999-2019  a Xanax 0,5mg  a few times a month, if necessary

Cymbalta 30mg      2012-25.04.2018  tapering for 2-3 months,severe symptoms 1 week after the last dose

Amitriptyline  25mg   25.05.18-20.01.19 ,tapering in 2-3 months, insomnia, panic-anxiety, confusion, nausea

Valdoxan 25mg  10.02.19-10.03.19, did not stabilize the situation, Lorazepam  10.02.19-20.02.19  if necessary overnight 

Brintellix 5mg     10.03.19-30.06.19 ,did not stabilize the situation,  fears, confusion and insomnia, I was in the hospital for 1 week 

Olanzapine 5mg   01.03.19-02.08.19,to relieve insomnia, confusion increases, depression increases, severe akathisia occurs

Cymbalta 30mg 30.06.19-01.08.19,no longer works, the situation does not stabilize, again in the hospital for 2 weeks

Levomepromazine 5mg  03.08.19-20.12.19  helped sleep but increased confusion and depression

Anafranil 03.08.19-15.12.19   dose 75mg

  15.12.19-  tapering     every 3-4 weeks    17.05.20  was the dose  35mg , 01.01.21  was the dose 27mg     

                 

Link to comment
  • 3 weeks later...
On 12/22/2020 at 6:13 PM, manymoretodays said:

Hi Estman, @Estman

I got your other post moved as well this morning.  2 posts up ^ and quoted below.

 

 

Yes, I'm a big fan of HOLDing for the Holidays.  And then, when you resume tapering, if I were you, I'd just go with 10% or less.

Current dose Anafranil is 27 mg.

27 mg X .90 = 24.3 mg, which would represent a 10% reduction, from 27 mg

27 mg X .95= 25.6 mg, which represents a 5 % reduction from 27 mg

 

 

Yep, lovely season now. 

Best, L, P, H, and G,

mmt

I changed my dose 9 days ago (7%, I've done it before) Exactly a week later, 7 days went very hard. Should the dose change be there by 5 days? Can withdrawal symptoms differ if I am 25mg or if I am 35mg? I think that with the same reduction (7%) Have you noticed that some doses are more difficult to reduce than others?

Xanax 0,5mg           1999-2019  a Xanax 0,5mg  a few times a month, if necessary

Cymbalta 30mg      2012-25.04.2018  tapering for 2-3 months,severe symptoms 1 week after the last dose

Amitriptyline  25mg   25.05.18-20.01.19 ,tapering in 2-3 months, insomnia, panic-anxiety, confusion, nausea

Valdoxan 25mg  10.02.19-10.03.19, did not stabilize the situation, Lorazepam  10.02.19-20.02.19  if necessary overnight 

Brintellix 5mg     10.03.19-30.06.19 ,did not stabilize the situation,  fears, confusion and insomnia, I was in the hospital for 1 week 

Olanzapine 5mg   01.03.19-02.08.19,to relieve insomnia, confusion increases, depression increases, severe akathisia occurs

Cymbalta 30mg 30.06.19-01.08.19,no longer works, the situation does not stabilize, again in the hospital for 2 weeks

Levomepromazine 5mg  03.08.19-20.12.19  helped sleep but increased confusion and depression

Anafranil 03.08.19-15.12.19   dose 75mg

  15.12.19-  tapering     every 3-4 weeks    17.05.20  was the dose  35mg , 01.01.21  was the dose 27mg     

                 

Link to comment
  • Moderator Emeritus

Yes, the withdrawal symptoms can change at different times of your taper.  The symptom/s you get can be different, last longer, appear at a different time.  That is why the hold time is 4 weeks which allows your brain the time it needs to adapt before making another reduction.  It is very important to hold for longer when needed instead of staying on a plan following a calendar.

 

And yes, some members have found that there are different doses which they seem to have more trouble getting past.  There is no "rule" about which dose.  It is different for different people.  Some members find that the lower their dose gets the slower they need to go, holding longer and/or reducing by less (remember that any reduction, whatever the size, is going in the right direction).  This topic might help you to understand why this might happen:

 

Why taper paper: dose-occupancy curves

 MISSION ACCOMPLISHED:    13 November 2021 -  0mg Pristiq      

Woohoo!!!  Finally off Pristiq

    

ADs since ~1992:  25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering from Oct 2015 - 13 Nov 2021   LAST DOSE 0.0025mg

My full tapering program     My Intro (goes to my tapering graph)    My website

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions.  I do not provide tapering advice via PM.  Please post questions in your Introduction topic.  Please do not tag me for any reason.  I am an unpaid volunteer and assist members if I am able to and when I have the time.  Thank you for your understanding.

Link to comment
13 hours ago, ChessieCat said:

Yes, the withdrawal symptoms can change at different times of your taper.  The symptom/s you get can be different, last longer, appear at a different time.  That is why the hold time is 4 weeks which allows your brain the time it needs to adapt before making another reduction.  It is very important to hold for longer when needed instead of staying on a plan following a calendar.

 

And yes, some members have found that there are different doses which they seem to have more trouble getting past.  There is no "rule" about which dose.  It is different for different people.  Some members find that the lower their dose gets the slower they need to go, holding longer and/or reducing by less (remember that any reduction, whatever the size, is going in the right direction).  This topic might help you to understand why this might happen:

 

Why taper paper: dose-occupancy curves

Thanks!
 

Xanax 0,5mg           1999-2019  a Xanax 0,5mg  a few times a month, if necessary

Cymbalta 30mg      2012-25.04.2018  tapering for 2-3 months,severe symptoms 1 week after the last dose

Amitriptyline  25mg   25.05.18-20.01.19 ,tapering in 2-3 months, insomnia, panic-anxiety, confusion, nausea

Valdoxan 25mg  10.02.19-10.03.19, did not stabilize the situation, Lorazepam  10.02.19-20.02.19  if necessary overnight 

Brintellix 5mg     10.03.19-30.06.19 ,did not stabilize the situation,  fears, confusion and insomnia, I was in the hospital for 1 week 

Olanzapine 5mg   01.03.19-02.08.19,to relieve insomnia, confusion increases, depression increases, severe akathisia occurs

Cymbalta 30mg 30.06.19-01.08.19,no longer works, the situation does not stabilize, again in the hospital for 2 weeks

Levomepromazine 5mg  03.08.19-20.12.19  helped sleep but increased confusion and depression

Anafranil 03.08.19-15.12.19   dose 75mg

  15.12.19-  tapering     every 3-4 weeks    17.05.20  was the dose  35mg , 01.01.21  was the dose 27mg     

                 

Link to comment

Hi,

This time the worse withdrawal symptoms were 2 weeks (14 days)
Unfortunately, there is still fatigue
I get tired suddenly every day at about 3 p.m.
Then a more depressed mood develops.
There were many other symptoms during the first two weeks
Is current fatigue somehow related to cortisol?
Do others also have a period of more anxiety-restlessness and then fatigue-exhaustion?
Yesterday I went to the sauna.
Unfortunately, this can not be done now, after particularly tired

Xanax 0,5mg           1999-2019  a Xanax 0,5mg  a few times a month, if necessary

Cymbalta 30mg      2012-25.04.2018  tapering for 2-3 months,severe symptoms 1 week after the last dose

Amitriptyline  25mg   25.05.18-20.01.19 ,tapering in 2-3 months, insomnia, panic-anxiety, confusion, nausea

Valdoxan 25mg  10.02.19-10.03.19, did not stabilize the situation, Lorazepam  10.02.19-20.02.19  if necessary overnight 

Brintellix 5mg     10.03.19-30.06.19 ,did not stabilize the situation,  fears, confusion and insomnia, I was in the hospital for 1 week 

Olanzapine 5mg   01.03.19-02.08.19,to relieve insomnia, confusion increases, depression increases, severe akathisia occurs

Cymbalta 30mg 30.06.19-01.08.19,no longer works, the situation does not stabilize, again in the hospital for 2 weeks

Levomepromazine 5mg  03.08.19-20.12.19  helped sleep but increased confusion and depression

Anafranil 03.08.19-15.12.19   dose 75mg

  15.12.19-  tapering     every 3-4 weeks    17.05.20  was the dose  35mg , 01.01.21  was the dose 27mg     

                 

Link to comment
On 1/18/2021 at 11:22 PM, ChessieCat said:

Yes, the withdrawal symptoms can change at different times of your taper.  The symptom/s you get can be different, last longer, appear at a different time.  That is why the hold time is 4 weeks which allows your brain the time it needs to adapt before making another reduction.  It is very important to hold for longer when needed instead of staying on a plan following a calendar.

 

 

 

Why taper paper: dose-occupancy curves

601 / 5000
The waves start completely unexpectedly
The last time we wrote there were bad symptoms
After that, it seemed to stabilize
I had little work to do and was a little worried about it
Then came a lot of work
Then two days I felt normal, I thought I was stable now.
There was enthusiasm and a willingness to work
Then there was a small quarrel
And 2 days ago I quickly felt bad
There has been an extreme bad mood and great depression
Physically, there is a rapid pulse and nausea, the desire to vomit
I can't rejoice and have a constant panic of despair
I have kept my dose for 22 days.
How is it possible to change the situation so quickly?
And the wave starts so suddenly?

 

Xanax 0,5mg           1999-2019  a Xanax 0,5mg  a few times a month, if necessary

Cymbalta 30mg      2012-25.04.2018  tapering for 2-3 months,severe symptoms 1 week after the last dose

Amitriptyline  25mg   25.05.18-20.01.19 ,tapering in 2-3 months, insomnia, panic-anxiety, confusion, nausea

Valdoxan 25mg  10.02.19-10.03.19, did not stabilize the situation, Lorazepam  10.02.19-20.02.19  if necessary overnight 

Brintellix 5mg     10.03.19-30.06.19 ,did not stabilize the situation,  fears, confusion and insomnia, I was in the hospital for 1 week 

Olanzapine 5mg   01.03.19-02.08.19,to relieve insomnia, confusion increases, depression increases, severe akathisia occurs

Cymbalta 30mg 30.06.19-01.08.19,no longer works, the situation does not stabilize, again in the hospital for 2 weeks

Levomepromazine 5mg  03.08.19-20.12.19  helped sleep but increased confusion and depression

Anafranil 03.08.19-15.12.19   dose 75mg

  15.12.19-  tapering     every 3-4 weeks    17.05.20  was the dose  35mg , 01.01.21  was the dose 27mg     

                 

Link to comment
On 1/17/2021 at 1:56 PM, Shep said:

I would start the vitamin D at a low dose and see how your nervous system responds. Everyone reacts differently, so you may want to keep notes on paper or on a Word doc about how you're feeling as you add it in, noting if the benefits outweigh any upticks in symptoms. 

 

Or you could target food high in vitamin D.

 

Hi Shep !

I would just like to know about the links between withdrawal and fatigue
I have taken vitamin D and also vitamin C every day, as well as omega fish oil
I last reduced it a month ago
In the meantime, there were harder times and there was just a 12-day wave
But when I try to work now, I get tired very quickly
The work is not physically hard, but I am tired after a couple of hours of work
I still take my daily dose halfway in the morning and the other half at 6pm
Usually, great fatigue begins immediately after noon, around 2 to 3 p.m.
Then you also experience more depression, feeling unwell
I don't understand exactly if the fatigue is from this withdrawal depression (from reducing the drug a month ago)
or caused by the drug itself?

True, I had a viral illness from Christmas until January 10
But it should have already recovered
Spring fatigue as it should not be because I take vitamins
Maybe this drug itself causes this fatigue?
Or is it a withdrawal symptom that goes away?

Xanax 0,5mg           1999-2019  a Xanax 0,5mg  a few times a month, if necessary

Cymbalta 30mg      2012-25.04.2018  tapering for 2-3 months,severe symptoms 1 week after the last dose

Amitriptyline  25mg   25.05.18-20.01.19 ,tapering in 2-3 months, insomnia, panic-anxiety, confusion, nausea

Valdoxan 25mg  10.02.19-10.03.19, did not stabilize the situation, Lorazepam  10.02.19-20.02.19  if necessary overnight 

Brintellix 5mg     10.03.19-30.06.19 ,did not stabilize the situation,  fears, confusion and insomnia, I was in the hospital for 1 week 

Olanzapine 5mg   01.03.19-02.08.19,to relieve insomnia, confusion increases, depression increases, severe akathisia occurs

Cymbalta 30mg 30.06.19-01.08.19,no longer works, the situation does not stabilize, again in the hospital for 2 weeks

Levomepromazine 5mg  03.08.19-20.12.19  helped sleep but increased confusion and depression

Anafranil 03.08.19-15.12.19   dose 75mg

  15.12.19-  tapering     every 3-4 weeks    17.05.20  was the dose  35mg , 01.01.21  was the dose 27mg     

                 

Link to comment
  • Administrator

@Estmanplease note I moved the above post out of Sleepless's intro thread, so you are asking about your own taper. 

 

3 hours ago, Estman said:

I would just like to know about the links between withdrawal and fatigue

 

Please see the below article for a very good explanation of the link between psychiatric drug withdrawal and fatigue. 

 

Protracted psych drug withdrawal syndrome, chronic illness, CFS, Fibromyalgia: it’s autonomic nervous system dysfunction

 

 

Drug free May 22, 2015 after 30 years of neuroleptics, benzos, z-drugs, so-called "anti"-depressants, and amphetamines 

 

My Success Story:  Shep's Success: "Leaving Plato's Cave"

 

And what is good, Phaedrus, and what is not good — need we ask anyone to tell us these things? ~ Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice, but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

 

Link to comment
10 hours ago, Shep said:

@Estmanplease note I moved the above post out of Sleepless's intro thread, so you are asking about your own taper. 

 

 

Please see the below article for a very good explanation of the link between psychiatric drug withdrawal and fatigue. 

 

Protracted psych drug withdrawal syndrome, chronic illness, CFS, Fibromyalgia: it’s autonomic nervous system dysfunction

 

 

Many thanks!

 

Xanax 0,5mg           1999-2019  a Xanax 0,5mg  a few times a month, if necessary

Cymbalta 30mg      2012-25.04.2018  tapering for 2-3 months,severe symptoms 1 week after the last dose

Amitriptyline  25mg   25.05.18-20.01.19 ,tapering in 2-3 months, insomnia, panic-anxiety, confusion, nausea

Valdoxan 25mg  10.02.19-10.03.19, did not stabilize the situation, Lorazepam  10.02.19-20.02.19  if necessary overnight 

Brintellix 5mg     10.03.19-30.06.19 ,did not stabilize the situation,  fears, confusion and insomnia, I was in the hospital for 1 week 

Olanzapine 5mg   01.03.19-02.08.19,to relieve insomnia, confusion increases, depression increases, severe akathisia occurs

Cymbalta 30mg 30.06.19-01.08.19,no longer works, the situation does not stabilize, again in the hospital for 2 weeks

Levomepromazine 5mg  03.08.19-20.12.19  helped sleep but increased confusion and depression

Anafranil 03.08.19-15.12.19   dose 75mg

  15.12.19-  tapering     every 3-4 weeks    17.05.20  was the dose  35mg , 01.01.21  was the dose 27mg     

                 

Link to comment
On 2/7/2021 at 9:10 PM, Shep said:

@Estmanplease note I moved the above post out of Sleepless's intro thread, so you are asking about your own taper. 

 

 

Please see the below article for a very good explanation of the link between psychiatric drug withdrawal and fatigue. 

 

Protracted psych drug withdrawal syndrome, chronic illness, CFS, Fibromyalgia: it’s autonomic nervous system dysfunction

 

 

I have had a huge weakness-fatigue for several days now
Before that, there was a heavy wave for 12 days
The waves and the weakness seem to alternate
Even when you wake up in the morning, you immediately feel tired and weak, and your whole body hurts somehow
Weakness makes me very afraid
I'd like to do different things but can't
This Weakness started a few days ago with a fast pulse
Somehow this cortisol is out of place
Otherwise I'm not sick, hopefully it will pass

Xanax 0,5mg           1999-2019  a Xanax 0,5mg  a few times a month, if necessary

Cymbalta 30mg      2012-25.04.2018  tapering for 2-3 months,severe symptoms 1 week after the last dose

Amitriptyline  25mg   25.05.18-20.01.19 ,tapering in 2-3 months, insomnia, panic-anxiety, confusion, nausea

Valdoxan 25mg  10.02.19-10.03.19, did not stabilize the situation, Lorazepam  10.02.19-20.02.19  if necessary overnight 

Brintellix 5mg     10.03.19-30.06.19 ,did not stabilize the situation,  fears, confusion and insomnia, I was in the hospital for 1 week 

Olanzapine 5mg   01.03.19-02.08.19,to relieve insomnia, confusion increases, depression increases, severe akathisia occurs

Cymbalta 30mg 30.06.19-01.08.19,no longer works, the situation does not stabilize, again in the hospital for 2 weeks

Levomepromazine 5mg  03.08.19-20.12.19  helped sleep but increased confusion and depression

Anafranil 03.08.19-15.12.19   dose 75mg

  15.12.19-  tapering     every 3-4 weeks    17.05.20  was the dose  35mg , 01.01.21  was the dose 27mg     

                 

Link to comment
On 1/18/2021 at 11:22 PM, ChessieCat said:

Yes, the withdrawal symptoms can change at different times of your taper.  The symptom/s you get can be different, last longer, appear at a different time.  That is why the hold time is 4 weeks which allows your brain the time it needs to adapt before making another reduction.  It is very important to hold for longer when needed instead of staying on a plan following a calendar.

 

And yes, some members have found that there are different doses which they seem to have more trouble getting past.  There is no "rule" about which dose.  It is different for different people.  Some members find that the lower their dose gets the slower they need to go, holding longer and/or reducing by less (remember that any reduction, whatever the size, is going in the right direction).  This topic might help you to understand why this might happen:

 

Why taper paper: dose-occupancy curves

It is exactly 31 days since the last dose reduction and there is still a strong wave of depression
There is also great fatigue and weakness
At higher daily doses, the waves seem to have lasted shorter
Do lower daily doses cause waves for longer?
I wanted to reduce it once a month, but this is not possible at the moment
I also found the following information:

Results: Occupancy of 5-HTT increased in a curvilinear manner. Even 10 mg of clomipramine hydrochloride showed approximately 80% occupancy, which was comparable with that of 50 mg of fluvoxamine maleate. Estimated median effective dose (ED50) of clomipramine hydrochloride was 2.67 mg for oral dose and 1.42 ng/mL for plasma concentration; those of fluvoxamine maleate were 18.6 mg and 4.19 ng/mL, respectively.

Conclusions: Clinical doses of clomipramine and fluvoxamine occupied approximately 80% of 5-HTT, and dose escalation would have minimal effect on 5-HTT blockade. Ten milligrams of clomipramine hydrochloride was enough to occupy 80% of 5-HTT in vivo.

 

If serotonin receptor occupancy is still more than 80%, haven't I recovered much?
Does receptor occupancy indicate the severity of withdrawal symptoms?
I mean that if the dose is 30mg and reduced to 3mg (10%) or if the dose is 25mg and reduced to 2.5mg (also 10%)?
I've tried to keep the reduction always the same but as if the waves get longer or even heavier, maybe it seems so

Xanax 0,5mg           1999-2019  a Xanax 0,5mg  a few times a month, if necessary

Cymbalta 30mg      2012-25.04.2018  tapering for 2-3 months,severe symptoms 1 week after the last dose

Amitriptyline  25mg   25.05.18-20.01.19 ,tapering in 2-3 months, insomnia, panic-anxiety, confusion, nausea

Valdoxan 25mg  10.02.19-10.03.19, did not stabilize the situation, Lorazepam  10.02.19-20.02.19  if necessary overnight 

Brintellix 5mg     10.03.19-30.06.19 ,did not stabilize the situation,  fears, confusion and insomnia, I was in the hospital for 1 week 

Olanzapine 5mg   01.03.19-02.08.19,to relieve insomnia, confusion increases, depression increases, severe akathisia occurs

Cymbalta 30mg 30.06.19-01.08.19,no longer works, the situation does not stabilize, again in the hospital for 2 weeks

Levomepromazine 5mg  03.08.19-20.12.19  helped sleep but increased confusion and depression

Anafranil 03.08.19-15.12.19   dose 75mg

  15.12.19-  tapering     every 3-4 weeks    17.05.20  was the dose  35mg , 01.01.21  was the dose 27mg     

                 

Link to comment
  • 2 weeks later...
  • Administrator

@Estman I received your PM but am replying here in your Intro. Please note the staff does not give out tapering advice via the PM. We need all moderators to have access to your information so we don't give you conflicting advice. 

 

On 2/9/2021 at 8:52 AM, Estman said:

I wanted to reduce it once a month, but this is not possible at the moment

 

Many people find they need to hold for weeks or even longer. This isn't uncommon and it will give your nervous system a chance to rest. 

 

A long hold with a lot of self-care may be best. 

 

Going through a lot of occupancy studies may not be that helpful with your history of polypharmacy - some of your symptoms may be late waves from earlier drug withdrawals.

 

If your mind/body is telling you to rest, it's time to rest. 

Drug free May 22, 2015 after 30 years of neuroleptics, benzos, z-drugs, so-called "anti"-depressants, and amphetamines 

 

My Success Story:  Shep's Success: "Leaving Plato's Cave"

 

And what is good, Phaedrus, and what is not good — need we ask anyone to tell us these things? ~ Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice, but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

 

Link to comment
  • 3 weeks later...
On 2/20/2021 at 3:37 PM, Shep said:

@Estman I received your PM but am replying here in your Intro. Please note the staff does not give out tapering advice via the PM. We need all moderators to have access to your information so we don't give you conflicting advice. 

 

 

Many people find they need to hold for weeks or even longer. This isn't uncommon and it will give your nervous system a chance to rest. 

 

A long hold with a lot of self-care may be best. 

 

Going through a lot of occupancy studies may not be that helpful with your history of polypharmacy - some of your symptoms may be late waves from earlier drug withdrawals.

 

If your mind/body is telling you to rest, it's time to rest. 

I take clomipramine 2 times a day, in the morning and at 6 p.m.
I last changed the dose 23 days ago
Most withdrawal symptoms have decreased but there is still great fatigue
Last time I reduced the morning dose to 1.5mg
Does it matter which dose I reduce first?
I think I give up the morning dose first and then the evening dose
I bought your recommended book on chronic fatigue, it's very good
It does not describe withdrawal symptoms, but otherwise provides a lot of information

Xanax 0,5mg           1999-2019  a Xanax 0,5mg  a few times a month, if necessary

Cymbalta 30mg      2012-25.04.2018  tapering for 2-3 months,severe symptoms 1 week after the last dose

Amitriptyline  25mg   25.05.18-20.01.19 ,tapering in 2-3 months, insomnia, panic-anxiety, confusion, nausea

Valdoxan 25mg  10.02.19-10.03.19, did not stabilize the situation, Lorazepam  10.02.19-20.02.19  if necessary overnight 

Brintellix 5mg     10.03.19-30.06.19 ,did not stabilize the situation,  fears, confusion and insomnia, I was in the hospital for 1 week 

Olanzapine 5mg   01.03.19-02.08.19,to relieve insomnia, confusion increases, depression increases, severe akathisia occurs

Cymbalta 30mg 30.06.19-01.08.19,no longer works, the situation does not stabilize, again in the hospital for 2 weeks

Levomepromazine 5mg  03.08.19-20.12.19  helped sleep but increased confusion and depression

Anafranil 03.08.19-15.12.19   dose 75mg

  15.12.19-  tapering     every 3-4 weeks    17.05.20  was the dose  35mg , 01.01.21  was the dose 27mg     

                 

Link to comment
  • Administrator
21 hours ago, Estman said:

Does it matter which dose I reduce first?

 

Does clomipramine help with sleep? 

 

If so, you may want to reduce the morning dose. Preserving sleep is a priority. The active metabolite in clomipramine gives it a 54-77 hour half life, so you'll be find when you get down to just one dose a day (from the first post in the thread Tips for Tapering off clomipramine). 

 

Is clomipramine the only drug you're taking? Are you taking any supplements? If so, please list the name, dose, and time(s) of day you take them. 

 

21 hours ago, Estman said:

I bought your recommended book on chronic fatigue, it's very good
It does not describe withdrawal symptoms, but otherwise provides a lot of information

 

Do you mean a book recommended by Surviving Antidepressants? It wasn't me who recommended it (I haven't read any books on this subject, only online research articles), but it may be a book that others have recommended on the site. I'm glad you found the book helpful. 

 

The Beyond Meds blogger has written about chronic fatigue within the context of withdrawal, so you may find her writings helpful.

 

Protracted psych drug withdrawal syndrome, chronic illness, CFS, Fibromyalgia: it’s autonomic nervous system dysfunction

 

 

Drug free May 22, 2015 after 30 years of neuroleptics, benzos, z-drugs, so-called "anti"-depressants, and amphetamines 

 

My Success Story:  Shep's Success: "Leaving Plato's Cave"

 

And what is good, Phaedrus, and what is not good — need we ask anyone to tell us these things? ~ Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice, but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

 

Link to comment
20 hours ago, Shep said:

 

Does clomipramine help with sleep? 

 

If so, you may want to reduce the morning dose. Preserving sleep is a priority. The active metabolite in clomipramine gives it a 54-77 hour half life, so you'll be find when you get down to just one dose a day (from the first post in the thread Tips for Tapering off clomipramine). 

 

Is clomipramine the only drug you're taking? Are you taking any supplements? If so, please list the name, dose, and time(s) of day you take them. 

 

 

Do you mean a book recommended by Surviving Antidepressants? It wasn't me who recommended it (I haven't read any books on this subject, only online research articles), but it may be a book that others have recommended on the site. I'm glad you found the book helpful. 

 

The Beyond Meds blogger has written about chronic fatigue within the context of withdrawal, so you may find her writings helpful.

 

Protracted psych drug withdrawal syndrome, chronic illness, CFS, Fibromyalgia: it’s autonomic nervous system dysfunction

 

 

I do not take any other drugs regularly except Anafranil
Only on particularly difficult days have I taken a little Betaloc if needed, when there is a particularly fast pulse and high blood pressure
A fast pulse and high blood pressure occur during a wave, when also high anxiety and makes my head ache
Betaloc normalizes the heart rate but the next day is weakness and fatigue
I try to take it as infrequently as possible and then 12-25mg, no more
In the morning I take Vitamin D3, Omega Fish Oil, Magnesium and Vitamin C.
No other supplements have been taken
Clomipramine appears to be one of the strongest tricyclic drugs
My doctor says it can be easily omitted, completely wrong
Are those who are free of drugs and energy recovered later?
I thought maybe I would try to take a low dose of tryptophan, which helps clomipramine during the dose reduction period.
At the same time, it's a risky thing. Has anyone helped?
Have there been any positive experiences with it or have everyone had negative ones?
Yes, this link to chronic fatigue was good information.

Xanax 0,5mg           1999-2019  a Xanax 0,5mg  a few times a month, if necessary

Cymbalta 30mg      2012-25.04.2018  tapering for 2-3 months,severe symptoms 1 week after the last dose

Amitriptyline  25mg   25.05.18-20.01.19 ,tapering in 2-3 months, insomnia, panic-anxiety, confusion, nausea

Valdoxan 25mg  10.02.19-10.03.19, did not stabilize the situation, Lorazepam  10.02.19-20.02.19  if necessary overnight 

Brintellix 5mg     10.03.19-30.06.19 ,did not stabilize the situation,  fears, confusion and insomnia, I was in the hospital for 1 week 

Olanzapine 5mg   01.03.19-02.08.19,to relieve insomnia, confusion increases, depression increases, severe akathisia occurs

Cymbalta 30mg 30.06.19-01.08.19,no longer works, the situation does not stabilize, again in the hospital for 2 weeks

Levomepromazine 5mg  03.08.19-20.12.19  helped sleep but increased confusion and depression

Anafranil 03.08.19-15.12.19   dose 75mg

  15.12.19-  tapering     every 3-4 weeks    17.05.20  was the dose  35mg , 01.01.21  was the dose 27mg     

                 

Link to comment
20 hours ago, Shep said:

 

Does clomipramine help with sleep? 

 

I

 

 

Sleep is strange to me
Fortunately, there has been no more severe insomnia
Sometimes when I reduce the dose, I have difficulty falling asleep for a few days
I have intermittent sleep at night, I wake up every night at 3 o'clock, later I fall asleep again, never sleep all night in a row
Sometimes the sleep is very lively, confused and painful, then a little better
Often there is a struggle or escape with the content of dreams, sometimes rarely something romantic
Once when I gave up amitriptyline I had severe insomnia, now I don't want to experience it again and I try to reduce it very slowly

Xanax 0,5mg           1999-2019  a Xanax 0,5mg  a few times a month, if necessary

Cymbalta 30mg      2012-25.04.2018  tapering for 2-3 months,severe symptoms 1 week after the last dose

Amitriptyline  25mg   25.05.18-20.01.19 ,tapering in 2-3 months, insomnia, panic-anxiety, confusion, nausea

Valdoxan 25mg  10.02.19-10.03.19, did not stabilize the situation, Lorazepam  10.02.19-20.02.19  if necessary overnight 

Brintellix 5mg     10.03.19-30.06.19 ,did not stabilize the situation,  fears, confusion and insomnia, I was in the hospital for 1 week 

Olanzapine 5mg   01.03.19-02.08.19,to relieve insomnia, confusion increases, depression increases, severe akathisia occurs

Cymbalta 30mg 30.06.19-01.08.19,no longer works, the situation does not stabilize, again in the hospital for 2 weeks

Levomepromazine 5mg  03.08.19-20.12.19  helped sleep but increased confusion and depression

Anafranil 03.08.19-15.12.19   dose 75mg

  15.12.19-  tapering     every 3-4 weeks    17.05.20  was the dose  35mg , 01.01.21  was the dose 27mg     

                 

Link to comment
On 3/12/2021 at 12:49 PM, Shep said:

 

Does clomipramine help with sleep? 

 

If so, you may want to reduce the morning dose. Preserving sleep is a priority. The active metabolite in clomipramine gives it a 54-77 hour half life, so you'll be find when you get down to just one dose a day (from the first post in the thread Tips for Tapering off clomipramine). 

 

Is clomipramine the only drug you're taking? Are you taking any supplements? If so, please list the name, dose, and time(s) of day you take them. 

 

 

Do you mean a book recommended by Surviving Antidepressants? It wasn't me who recommended it (I haven't read any books on this subject, only online research articles), but it may be a book that others have recommended on the site. I'm glad you found the book helpful. 

 

The Beyond Meds blogger has written about chronic fatigue within the context of withdrawal, so you may find her writings helpful.

 

Protracted psych drug withdrawal syndrome, chronic illness, CFS, Fibromyalgia: it’s autonomic nervous system dysfunction

 

 

Clomipramine is a very strong SRI.[64][65] Its affinity for the SERT was reported in one study using human tissues to be 0.14 nM, which is considerably higher than that of other TCAs.[35][57] For example, the TCAs with the next highest affinities for the SERT in the study were imipramine, amitriptyline, and dosulepin (dothiepin), with Ki values of 1.4 nM, 4.3 nM, and 8.3 nM, respectively.[57] In addition, clomipramine has a terminal half-life that is around twice as long as that of amitriptyline and imipramine.[57][66] In spite of these differences however, clomipramine is used clinically at the same usual dosages as other serotonergic TCAs (100–200 mg/day).[57] It achieves typical circulating concentrations that are similar in range to those of other TCAs but with an upper limit that is around twice that of amitriptyline and imipramine.[57] For these reasons, clomipramine is the most potent SRI among the TCAs and is far stronger as an SRI than other TCAs at typical clinical dosages.[64][65] In addition, clomipramine is more potent as an SRI than any selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs), it is more potent than paroxetine, which is the strongest SSRI.[57]

Such information, is Clomipramine really stronger even than paroxetine?

 

Xanax 0,5mg           1999-2019  a Xanax 0,5mg  a few times a month, if necessary

Cymbalta 30mg      2012-25.04.2018  tapering for 2-3 months,severe symptoms 1 week after the last dose

Amitriptyline  25mg   25.05.18-20.01.19 ,tapering in 2-3 months, insomnia, panic-anxiety, confusion, nausea

Valdoxan 25mg  10.02.19-10.03.19, did not stabilize the situation, Lorazepam  10.02.19-20.02.19  if necessary overnight 

Brintellix 5mg     10.03.19-30.06.19 ,did not stabilize the situation,  fears, confusion and insomnia, I was in the hospital for 1 week 

Olanzapine 5mg   01.03.19-02.08.19,to relieve insomnia, confusion increases, depression increases, severe akathisia occurs

Cymbalta 30mg 30.06.19-01.08.19,no longer works, the situation does not stabilize, again in the hospital for 2 weeks

Levomepromazine 5mg  03.08.19-20.12.19  helped sleep but increased confusion and depression

Anafranil 03.08.19-15.12.19   dose 75mg

  15.12.19-  tapering     every 3-4 weeks    17.05.20  was the dose  35mg , 01.01.21  was the dose 27mg     

                 

Link to comment

From time to time I have experienced periods when my whole body seems to be in pain (3-4 days)
At the same time, I feel like my joints, especially my legs and arms are dying and limping
During these periods, sleep is also very poor and there is a lot of fatigue both at night and during the day
I have tried to sleep during the day but it has not alleviated it
Could It Be Fibromyalgia?

Is this a transient symptom?
It has been 35 days since the last dose change

Xanax 0,5mg           1999-2019  a Xanax 0,5mg  a few times a month, if necessary

Cymbalta 30mg      2012-25.04.2018  tapering for 2-3 months,severe symptoms 1 week after the last dose

Amitriptyline  25mg   25.05.18-20.01.19 ,tapering in 2-3 months, insomnia, panic-anxiety, confusion, nausea

Valdoxan 25mg  10.02.19-10.03.19, did not stabilize the situation, Lorazepam  10.02.19-20.02.19  if necessary overnight 

Brintellix 5mg     10.03.19-30.06.19 ,did not stabilize the situation,  fears, confusion and insomnia, I was in the hospital for 1 week 

Olanzapine 5mg   01.03.19-02.08.19,to relieve insomnia, confusion increases, depression increases, severe akathisia occurs

Cymbalta 30mg 30.06.19-01.08.19,no longer works, the situation does not stabilize, again in the hospital for 2 weeks

Levomepromazine 5mg  03.08.19-20.12.19  helped sleep but increased confusion and depression

Anafranil 03.08.19-15.12.19   dose 75mg

  15.12.19-  tapering     every 3-4 weeks    17.05.20  was the dose  35mg , 01.01.21  was the dose 27mg     

                 

Link to comment
On 1/18/2021 at 11:22 PM, ChessieCat said:

Yes, the withdrawal symptoms can change at different times of your taper.  The symptom/s you get can be different, last longer, appear at a different time.  That is why the hold time is 4 weeks which allows your brain the time it needs to adapt before making another reduction.  It is very important to hold for longer when needed instead of staying on a plan following a calendar.

 

And yes, some members have found that there are different doses which they seem to have more trouble getting past.  There is no "rule" about which dose.  It is different for different people.  Some members find that the lower their dose gets the slower they need to go, holding longer and/or reducing by less (remember that any reduction, whatever the size, is going in the right direction).  This topic might help you to understand why this might happen:

 

Why taper paper: dose-occupancy curves

HI Chessie!

I was on my previous dose for 35 days
It seemed to be relatively normal in the end,I decided to reduce again
5 days ago I reduced the dose by 7-8% and yesterday I started to have very severe symptoms
There was a very fast pulse, panic and anxiety and a very bad feeling all night

I was only able to fall asleep in the morning
Today there is a lot of anxiety, it seems that digestion is out of order and also nausea

If Anafranil tablets are powdered then will the absorption change?
Is there any information on norepinephrine receptor occupancy related to Anafranil?
Are nausea and stomach upset caused by a decrease in the amount of serotonin in the body or a decrease in serotonin in the brain?

Xanax 0,5mg           1999-2019  a Xanax 0,5mg  a few times a month, if necessary

Cymbalta 30mg      2012-25.04.2018  tapering for 2-3 months,severe symptoms 1 week after the last dose

Amitriptyline  25mg   25.05.18-20.01.19 ,tapering in 2-3 months, insomnia, panic-anxiety, confusion, nausea

Valdoxan 25mg  10.02.19-10.03.19, did not stabilize the situation, Lorazepam  10.02.19-20.02.19  if necessary overnight 

Brintellix 5mg     10.03.19-30.06.19 ,did not stabilize the situation,  fears, confusion and insomnia, I was in the hospital for 1 week 

Olanzapine 5mg   01.03.19-02.08.19,to relieve insomnia, confusion increases, depression increases, severe akathisia occurs

Cymbalta 30mg 30.06.19-01.08.19,no longer works, the situation does not stabilize, again in the hospital for 2 weeks

Levomepromazine 5mg  03.08.19-20.12.19  helped sleep but increased confusion and depression

Anafranil 03.08.19-15.12.19   dose 75mg

  15.12.19-  tapering     every 3-4 weeks    17.05.20  was the dose  35mg , 01.01.21  was the dose 27mg     

                 

Link to comment
  • Moderator Emeritus

Here at SA we go by symptoms.  These are something that can be observed and compared whereas other things like occupancy are not able to be seen and/or measured by you.

 

If you reduce your dose and your symptoms worsen then it generally means that you reduced too much.  You might find a small increase / updose might help, but not going back to the previous dose.  Perhaps go back up to the dose that would have been a 4% reduction of the previous dose instead of 8%.  Going from your signature (please update it) it would seem that you have reduced from 27mg and went to about 25mg.  Using these figures as an example, you might find that going to 26mg might help.

 

When I reduced too much I got severe ear pain which was not alleviated by taking an OTC cold medicine which was when I realised it was a withdrawal symptom.  I increased my dose by a small amount and the ear pain went.

 

When I reduced my Pristiq from 100mg to 50mg I got an upset stomach and it is on the list:

 

Dr Joseph Glenmullen's WD Symptoms Checklist

 

7 hours ago, Estman said:

If Anafranil tablets are powdered then will the absorption change?

 

When changing form of a drug, eg tablet to liquid, tablet to crushed tablet, then the rate of absorption of the drug will generally change.  SA suggests doing a cross over which is gentler on your system.

 

Have you recently changed from tablet to crushed/powdered tablet?

 

If yes, did you do a cross over?

 

Did you make a reduction at the same time as changing form of the drug?

 

SA recommends only making one change at a time.

 

 MISSION ACCOMPLISHED:    13 November 2021 -  0mg Pristiq      

Woohoo!!!  Finally off Pristiq

    

ADs since ~1992:  25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering from Oct 2015 - 13 Nov 2021   LAST DOSE 0.0025mg

My full tapering program     My Intro (goes to my tapering graph)    My website

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions.  I do not provide tapering advice via PM.  Please post questions in your Introduction topic.  Please do not tag me for any reason.  I am an unpaid volunteer and assist members if I am able to and when I have the time.  Thank you for your understanding.

Link to comment
On 3/27/2021 at 11:57 PM, ChessieCat said:

Here at SA we go by symptoms.  These are something that can be observed and compared whereas other things like occupancy are not able to be seen and/or measured by you.

 

If you reduce your dose and your symptoms worsen then it generally means that you reduced too much.  You might find a small increase / updose might help, but not going back to the previous dose.  Perhaps go back up to the dose that would have been a 4% reduction of the previous dose instead of 8%.  Going from your signature (please update it) it would seem that you have reduced from 27mg and went to about 25mg.  Using these figures as an example, you might find that going to 26mg might help.

 

When I reduced too much I got severe ear pain which was not alleviated by taking an OTC cold medicine which was when I realised it was a withdrawal symptom.  I increased my dose by a small amount and the ear pain went.

 

When I reduced my Pristiq from 100mg to 50mg I got an upset stomach and it is on the list:

 

Dr Joseph Glenmullen's WD Symptoms Checklist

 

 

When changing form of a drug, eg tablet to liquid, tablet to crushed tablet, then the rate of absorption of the drug will generally change.  SA suggests doing a cross over which is gentler on your system.

 

Have you recently changed from tablet to crushed/powdered tablet?

 

If yes, did you do a cross over?

 

Did you make a reduction at the same time as changing form of the drug?

 

SA recommends only making one change at a time.

 

Wikipedia describes that clomipramine is the strongest serotonin reuptake inhibitor (SERT occupansy) and especially at low doses.10mg of clomipramine corresponds to 50mg of fluoxetine or 20mg of paroxetine?
Does this mean that withdrawal symptoms are the most severe or does half-life count?
I am currently on 23.5mg a day
Since the smallest tablet is 10mg, I let the pharmacy make small doses as a powder
They are inside the paper and I just shake them in my mouth and drink water
So I take the morning dose, in the evening I take the full tablet of 10mg
Yes, sometimes when I start to reduce from a full tablet, I also switch to powder at the same time
The last reduction was 7 days ago and was 8%
Yes, it seems like it was too big because the symptoms are severe.
Next time no more than 5% reduction.
I really want to give up this medicine, and how good it is to be, then I think maybe not a big reduction
3-4 days later the effect arrives
Yesterday was an extreme weakness.
Even a little stress immediately causes excruciating weakness
Even breathing seems difficult, as well as talking
At the same time, it causes a great deal of anxiety
Last night was a very disturbed sleep
It was hard to fall asleep and when I fell asleep I had a very shallow sleep
I woke up every now and then and I felt like I hadn't sounded asleep
It was like a kind of sleep anxiety, very confused and living dreams
In the morning can not recover for a long time
There is a lot of drowsiness and confusion
It's like fog in the head
We also had the clock turning here in the Nordic countries yesterday
This is done twice a year and also upsets the rhythm

Xanax 0,5mg           1999-2019  a Xanax 0,5mg  a few times a month, if necessary

Cymbalta 30mg      2012-25.04.2018  tapering for 2-3 months,severe symptoms 1 week after the last dose

Amitriptyline  25mg   25.05.18-20.01.19 ,tapering in 2-3 months, insomnia, panic-anxiety, confusion, nausea

Valdoxan 25mg  10.02.19-10.03.19, did not stabilize the situation, Lorazepam  10.02.19-20.02.19  if necessary overnight 

Brintellix 5mg     10.03.19-30.06.19 ,did not stabilize the situation,  fears, confusion and insomnia, I was in the hospital for 1 week 

Olanzapine 5mg   01.03.19-02.08.19,to relieve insomnia, confusion increases, depression increases, severe akathisia occurs

Cymbalta 30mg 30.06.19-01.08.19,no longer works, the situation does not stabilize, again in the hospital for 2 weeks

Levomepromazine 5mg  03.08.19-20.12.19  helped sleep but increased confusion and depression

Anafranil 03.08.19-15.12.19   dose 75mg

  15.12.19-  tapering     every 3-4 weeks    17.05.20  was the dose  35mg , 01.01.21  was the dose 27mg     

                 

Link to comment
  • Moderator Emeritus

You could always divide up what is in one of the paper powder packets and take only part of it so as to do a small increase.

 MISSION ACCOMPLISHED:    13 November 2021 -  0mg Pristiq      

Woohoo!!!  Finally off Pristiq

    

ADs since ~1992:  25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering from Oct 2015 - 13 Nov 2021   LAST DOSE 0.0025mg

My full tapering program     My Intro (goes to my tapering graph)    My website

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions.  I do not provide tapering advice via PM.  Please post questions in your Introduction topic.  Please do not tag me for any reason.  I am an unpaid volunteer and assist members if I am able to and when I have the time.  Thank you for your understanding.

Link to comment
On 2/7/2021 at 8:10 PM, Shep said:

@Estmanplease note I moved the above post out of Sleepless's intro thread, so you are asking about your own taper. 

 

 

Please see the below article for a very good explanation of the link between psychiatric drug withdrawal and fatigue. 

 

Protracted psych drug withdrawal syndrome, chronic illness, CFS, Fibromyalgia: it’s autonomic nervous system dysfunction

 

 

This exactly the phase I'm in!

I'm tapering paroxetine and Clomipramine and after a long period of stress, anxiety, panic I'm totally empty and dead tired mental and physical...

 

The summary is that we exercise and move?

1998-2020  Paroxetine 20mg, stopped working 2018/08 tapered down to 6mg now @ 1%/week 2019 /04      Lorazepam 3x1mg, 1x0,5mg night, Lormetazepam 0,5mg night
2019/05       Buspirone addition 3x5mg worked like wonders for one month, stopped ct 2019/12        Mirtazipine, first 2x10mg til 2021/2, no effect, now 3mg for sleep
2020/06       Wellbutrin 6 weeks, no effect stopped ct 2020/08 Lexapro, trying, to crossover, got crazy from 1 mg/day after 6 days, stopped
2020/11        Clomipramine to 50mg, adverse effect, restless, panic, low mood, anxiety, fast taper down to 30 (plan is go to ~20 and hold and taper only parox. and benzo's and maybe Mirt if I sleep)

2021/1         3x1000mg gaba, 3x10mg Lithium Orotate, 3x 1000mg L-Tyrosine,2-3 times 1x400mg magnesium citrate , 2-3 times 1x1000mg vit. C,1x15mg Zinc,

                     3 times 2mg Molybdeen Glycinate, 2 times 2000mg Omgea 3-6-9 and 1x16mg B6 (P5P) 2021/03/17  Gaba, Tyrosine and Lithium orotate to 3x1 tablet.

2021/03/17   Cl 30, P 5,8. 2021/03/20 Cl 28. 2021/03/23 M 2,7. 2021/03/25 M 2,6, Cl 26, P 5,7. 2021/03/28 Cl 25. 2021/04/1 P 5,6. 2021/04/07 Cl 24,P 5,5. 2021/04/08 Cl 23,5. 2021/04/13 P5,4

2021/03/26  Lor 3x0,9, 1x0,45 night, Lorm 0,45night 2021/04/13 CL 23, M 2,5. 2021/04/16 Cl 22,5, P 5,3. 2021/04/18 M 2,4. 2021/04/24 Cl 22. 2021/04/29 M2,3, P5,28. 2021/05/8 Cl 21,5.

2021/05/9   M 2,2, P 5,22. 2021/05/12 Cl back to 22, 2021/05/20 Lor 3x0,8, night 1x0,40 Lorm 1x0,40 2021/05/27 Cl 20(holding)2021/05/28 P5,15 (holding)2021/05/31 Cl 22 (holding)

2021/06/7   Lor 3x0,75 1x0,38 night, Lorm 0,38night 2021/11/7 P5

Link to comment
  • 3 weeks later...
On 3/27/2021 at 11:57 PM, ChessieCat said:

Here at SA we go by symptoms.  These are something that can be observed and compared whereas other things like occupancy are not able to be seen and/or measured by you.

 

If you reduce your dose and your symptoms worsen then it generally means that you reduced too much.  You might find a small increase / updose might help, but not going back to the previous dose.  Perhaps go back up to the dose that would have been a 4% reduction of the previous dose instead of 8%.  Going from your signature (please update it) it would seem that you have reduced from 27mg and went to about 25mg.  Using these figures as an example, you might find that going to 26mg might help.

 

When I reduced too much I got severe ear pain which was not alleviated by taking an OTC cold medicine which was when I realised it was a withdrawal symptom.  I increased my dose by a small amount and the ear pain went.

 

When I reduced my Pristiq from 100mg to 50mg I got an upset stomach and it is on the list:

 

Dr Joseph Glenmullen's WD Symptoms Checklist

 

 

When changing form of a drug, eg tablet to liquid, tablet to crushed tablet, then the rate of absorption of the drug will generally change.  SA suggests doing a cross over which is gentler on your system.

 

Have you recently changed from tablet to crushed/powdered tablet?

 

If yes, did you do a cross over?

 

Did you make a reduction at the same time as changing form of the drug?

 

SA recommends only making one change at a time.

 

I got a norovirus 11 days ago
I vomited for 1-2 days and my stomach was out of order
So far, however, it is not possible to eat normally
The general feeling is bad and there is a weakness when I try to do something
Does Anafranil slow down the healing of the virus?
How long can such viruses go?
I have not had such a thing for several years
Yesterday I tried a small piece of garlic but it made it worse

Xanax 0,5mg           1999-2019  a Xanax 0,5mg  a few times a month, if necessary

Cymbalta 30mg      2012-25.04.2018  tapering for 2-3 months,severe symptoms 1 week after the last dose

Amitriptyline  25mg   25.05.18-20.01.19 ,tapering in 2-3 months, insomnia, panic-anxiety, confusion, nausea

Valdoxan 25mg  10.02.19-10.03.19, did not stabilize the situation, Lorazepam  10.02.19-20.02.19  if necessary overnight 

Brintellix 5mg     10.03.19-30.06.19 ,did not stabilize the situation,  fears, confusion and insomnia, I was in the hospital for 1 week 

Olanzapine 5mg   01.03.19-02.08.19,to relieve insomnia, confusion increases, depression increases, severe akathisia occurs

Cymbalta 30mg 30.06.19-01.08.19,no longer works, the situation does not stabilize, again in the hospital for 2 weeks

Levomepromazine 5mg  03.08.19-20.12.19  helped sleep but increased confusion and depression

Anafranil 03.08.19-15.12.19   dose 75mg

  15.12.19-  tapering     every 3-4 weeks    17.05.20  was the dose  35mg , 01.01.21  was the dose 27mg     

                 

Link to comment
On 3/27/2021 at 11:57 PM, ChessieCat said:

 

 

For some reason, I have weakness in my waking hands and feet in the morning
Also, the whole body is very limp in the morning
Is it paraesthesia?
Sleep is also very lively and confused
Already 32 days since the last dose change

Xanax 0,5mg           1999-2019  a Xanax 0,5mg  a few times a month, if necessary

Cymbalta 30mg      2012-25.04.2018  tapering for 2-3 months,severe symptoms 1 week after the last dose

Amitriptyline  25mg   25.05.18-20.01.19 ,tapering in 2-3 months, insomnia, panic-anxiety, confusion, nausea

Valdoxan 25mg  10.02.19-10.03.19, did not stabilize the situation, Lorazepam  10.02.19-20.02.19  if necessary overnight 

Brintellix 5mg     10.03.19-30.06.19 ,did not stabilize the situation,  fears, confusion and insomnia, I was in the hospital for 1 week 

Olanzapine 5mg   01.03.19-02.08.19,to relieve insomnia, confusion increases, depression increases, severe akathisia occurs

Cymbalta 30mg 30.06.19-01.08.19,no longer works, the situation does not stabilize, again in the hospital for 2 weeks

Levomepromazine 5mg  03.08.19-20.12.19  helped sleep but increased confusion and depression

Anafranil 03.08.19-15.12.19   dose 75mg

  15.12.19-  tapering     every 3-4 weeks    17.05.20  was the dose  35mg , 01.01.21  was the dose 27mg     

                 

Link to comment
  • 3 weeks later...
On 3/29/2021 at 10:40 AM, ChessieCat said:

You could always divide up what is in one of the paper powder packets and take only part of it so as to do a small increase.

I have a fast pulse after a short effort
Even if you don't do something very difficult, even an hour or two later there is still a fast pulse
I wonder if this is also a withdrawal symptom or a side effect of Anafranil?
Otherwise there are no heart problems

Xanax 0,5mg           1999-2019  a Xanax 0,5mg  a few times a month, if necessary

Cymbalta 30mg      2012-25.04.2018  tapering for 2-3 months,severe symptoms 1 week after the last dose

Amitriptyline  25mg   25.05.18-20.01.19 ,tapering in 2-3 months, insomnia, panic-anxiety, confusion, nausea

Valdoxan 25mg  10.02.19-10.03.19, did not stabilize the situation, Lorazepam  10.02.19-20.02.19  if necessary overnight 

Brintellix 5mg     10.03.19-30.06.19 ,did not stabilize the situation,  fears, confusion and insomnia, I was in the hospital for 1 week 

Olanzapine 5mg   01.03.19-02.08.19,to relieve insomnia, confusion increases, depression increases, severe akathisia occurs

Cymbalta 30mg 30.06.19-01.08.19,no longer works, the situation does not stabilize, again in the hospital for 2 weeks

Levomepromazine 5mg  03.08.19-20.12.19  helped sleep but increased confusion and depression

Anafranil 03.08.19-15.12.19   dose 75mg

  15.12.19-  tapering     every 3-4 weeks    17.05.20  was the dose  35mg , 01.01.21  was the dose 27mg     

                 

Link to comment
  • 4 weeks later...

Can dose reduction affect vision?
It seems to me that the eyes do not tolerate bright light
There are blurred vision and squinting in some places
It causes headaches
Today is 15 days since the last reduction (7% Clomipramine)
There have been problems with the eyes somewhere in the last 1-1.5 weeks

Xanax 0,5mg           1999-2019  a Xanax 0,5mg  a few times a month, if necessary

Cymbalta 30mg      2012-25.04.2018  tapering for 2-3 months,severe symptoms 1 week after the last dose

Amitriptyline  25mg   25.05.18-20.01.19 ,tapering in 2-3 months, insomnia, panic-anxiety, confusion, nausea

Valdoxan 25mg  10.02.19-10.03.19, did not stabilize the situation, Lorazepam  10.02.19-20.02.19  if necessary overnight 

Brintellix 5mg     10.03.19-30.06.19 ,did not stabilize the situation,  fears, confusion and insomnia, I was in the hospital for 1 week 

Olanzapine 5mg   01.03.19-02.08.19,to relieve insomnia, confusion increases, depression increases, severe akathisia occurs

Cymbalta 30mg 30.06.19-01.08.19,no longer works, the situation does not stabilize, again in the hospital for 2 weeks

Levomepromazine 5mg  03.08.19-20.12.19  helped sleep but increased confusion and depression

Anafranil 03.08.19-15.12.19   dose 75mg

  15.12.19-  tapering     every 3-4 weeks    17.05.20  was the dose  35mg , 01.01.21  was the dose 27mg     

                 

Link to comment
  • Administrator

Drug free May 22, 2015 after 30 years of neuroleptics, benzos, z-drugs, so-called "anti"-depressants, and amphetamines 

 

My Success Story:  Shep's Success: "Leaving Plato's Cave"

 

And what is good, Phaedrus, and what is not good — need we ask anyone to tell us these things? ~ Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice, but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

 

Link to comment
15 minutes ago, Shep said:

Thank you Shep !
I have the following observation:
If you reduce the dose then there are problems with vision for the first 1-1.5 weeks. Then there are also occasional nausea and other bad symptoms but these are tolerable
But everything changes somewhere in 15-16 days
Suddenly there is a change, within a few hours a strong wave begins, the head goes like a block with a disturbing feeling and great anxiety
There are also immediate problems with blood pressure
otherwise it is somewhere between 135/90 and already 155/100
High blood pressure causes intense tension in the eyes and neck
There is a pulsating headache
Since I don't want to take a sedative, I've tried to lower my pulse and blood pressure.
The extreme wave usually lasts about 7-12 days, later there is a lot of fatigue and depression
I always reduce my dose once every 35 days and no more than 5-7% at a time
Waves always start very unexpectedly and suddenly.
Another indicator is the waves, very lively, abstract and distressing dreams.

Xanax 0,5mg           1999-2019  a Xanax 0,5mg  a few times a month, if necessary

Cymbalta 30mg      2012-25.04.2018  tapering for 2-3 months,severe symptoms 1 week after the last dose

Amitriptyline  25mg   25.05.18-20.01.19 ,tapering in 2-3 months, insomnia, panic-anxiety, confusion, nausea

Valdoxan 25mg  10.02.19-10.03.19, did not stabilize the situation, Lorazepam  10.02.19-20.02.19  if necessary overnight 

Brintellix 5mg     10.03.19-30.06.19 ,did not stabilize the situation,  fears, confusion and insomnia, I was in the hospital for 1 week 

Olanzapine 5mg   01.03.19-02.08.19,to relieve insomnia, confusion increases, depression increases, severe akathisia occurs

Cymbalta 30mg 30.06.19-01.08.19,no longer works, the situation does not stabilize, again in the hospital for 2 weeks

Levomepromazine 5mg  03.08.19-20.12.19  helped sleep but increased confusion and depression

Anafranil 03.08.19-15.12.19   dose 75mg

  15.12.19-  tapering     every 3-4 weeks    17.05.20  was the dose  35mg , 01.01.21  was the dose 27mg     

                 

Link to comment
On 6/19/2021 at 2:06 PM, Shep said:

I have noticed that I can no longer eat dairy products, there are disturbing bloating and digestive problems and nasty nausea.
It starts about an hour after eating and lasts 4-5 hours
Could it be related to reduction?
There was no such thing before, I could eat ice cream, cheese, etc.

Xanax 0,5mg           1999-2019  a Xanax 0,5mg  a few times a month, if necessary

Cymbalta 30mg      2012-25.04.2018  tapering for 2-3 months,severe symptoms 1 week after the last dose

Amitriptyline  25mg   25.05.18-20.01.19 ,tapering in 2-3 months, insomnia, panic-anxiety, confusion, nausea

Valdoxan 25mg  10.02.19-10.03.19, did not stabilize the situation, Lorazepam  10.02.19-20.02.19  if necessary overnight 

Brintellix 5mg     10.03.19-30.06.19 ,did not stabilize the situation,  fears, confusion and insomnia, I was in the hospital for 1 week 

Olanzapine 5mg   01.03.19-02.08.19,to relieve insomnia, confusion increases, depression increases, severe akathisia occurs

Cymbalta 30mg 30.06.19-01.08.19,no longer works, the situation does not stabilize, again in the hospital for 2 weeks

Levomepromazine 5mg  03.08.19-20.12.19  helped sleep but increased confusion and depression

Anafranil 03.08.19-15.12.19   dose 75mg

  15.12.19-  tapering     every 3-4 weeks    17.05.20  was the dose  35mg , 01.01.21  was the dose 27mg     

                 

Link to comment
  • Administrator

Sound like you've developed food sensitivities, which is common during withdrawal.

 

Food sensitivities

 

Also check out the other links at the top of that first post in the thread.

 

 

Drug free May 22, 2015 after 30 years of neuroleptics, benzos, z-drugs, so-called "anti"-depressants, and amphetamines 

 

My Success Story:  Shep's Success: "Leaving Plato's Cave"

 

And what is good, Phaedrus, and what is not good — need we ask anyone to tell us these things? ~ Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice, but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

 

Link to comment
23 hours ago, Shep said:

Sound like you've developed food sensitivities, which is common during withdrawal.

 

Food sensitivities

 

Also check out the other links at the top of that first post in the thread.

 

 

Hi Shep,

I may have a histamine intolerance
Do I understand correctly that reducing an antidepressant increases histamine levels?

 

Xanax 0,5mg           1999-2019  a Xanax 0,5mg  a few times a month, if necessary

Cymbalta 30mg      2012-25.04.2018  tapering for 2-3 months,severe symptoms 1 week after the last dose

Amitriptyline  25mg   25.05.18-20.01.19 ,tapering in 2-3 months, insomnia, panic-anxiety, confusion, nausea

Valdoxan 25mg  10.02.19-10.03.19, did not stabilize the situation, Lorazepam  10.02.19-20.02.19  if necessary overnight 

Brintellix 5mg     10.03.19-30.06.19 ,did not stabilize the situation,  fears, confusion and insomnia, I was in the hospital for 1 week 

Olanzapine 5mg   01.03.19-02.08.19,to relieve insomnia, confusion increases, depression increases, severe akathisia occurs

Cymbalta 30mg 30.06.19-01.08.19,no longer works, the situation does not stabilize, again in the hospital for 2 weeks

Levomepromazine 5mg  03.08.19-20.12.19  helped sleep but increased confusion and depression

Anafranil 03.08.19-15.12.19   dose 75mg

  15.12.19-  tapering     every 3-4 weeks    17.05.20  was the dose  35mg , 01.01.21  was the dose 27mg     

                 

Link to comment
  • 2 weeks later...
On 6/19/2021 at 2:06 PM, Shep said:

Hi Shep,

Vision is slightly improved, less blurred.
I had several blood tests done
There is no lactose intolerance
There is no gluten intolerance
But there are still some ailments and food intolerances
I also did a histamine test
I gave blood in the morning when I had not eaten for more than 12 hours and the reading was 5.43 nmol / l
The laboratory said that this is normal and can be up to 9 nmol / l
However, I myself doubt that
What Should Normal Histamine Levels Be?
Are there any numbers, rates?
It has been 35 days since the last dose change and was 7% of the daily dose
However, redness, watery eyes and tingling still occur
There are digestive problems, occasional nausea, drowsiness, dizziness, etc.
Does the blood test accurately indicate a possible histamine problem?

Xanax 0,5mg           1999-2019  a Xanax 0,5mg  a few times a month, if necessary

Cymbalta 30mg      2012-25.04.2018  tapering for 2-3 months,severe symptoms 1 week after the last dose

Amitriptyline  25mg   25.05.18-20.01.19 ,tapering in 2-3 months, insomnia, panic-anxiety, confusion, nausea

Valdoxan 25mg  10.02.19-10.03.19, did not stabilize the situation, Lorazepam  10.02.19-20.02.19  if necessary overnight 

Brintellix 5mg     10.03.19-30.06.19 ,did not stabilize the situation,  fears, confusion and insomnia, I was in the hospital for 1 week 

Olanzapine 5mg   01.03.19-02.08.19,to relieve insomnia, confusion increases, depression increases, severe akathisia occurs

Cymbalta 30mg 30.06.19-01.08.19,no longer works, the situation does not stabilize, again in the hospital for 2 weeks

Levomepromazine 5mg  03.08.19-20.12.19  helped sleep but increased confusion and depression

Anafranil 03.08.19-15.12.19   dose 75mg

  15.12.19-  tapering     every 3-4 weeks    17.05.20  was the dose  35mg , 01.01.21  was the dose 27mg     

                 

Link to comment
  • Administrator

I'm not familiar with histamine tests. Please have a read of these threads and if you don't find your answer, feel free to post and ask your questions there. 

 

Elimination or exclusion diets for reactions to food (food intolerance)

 

Histamine intolerance

Drug free May 22, 2015 after 30 years of neuroleptics, benzos, z-drugs, so-called "anti"-depressants, and amphetamines 

 

My Success Story:  Shep's Success: "Leaving Plato's Cave"

 

And what is good, Phaedrus, and what is not good — need we ask anyone to tell us these things? ~ Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice, but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

 

Link to comment
  • 4 weeks later...
On 7/4/2021 at 2:18 PM, Shep said:

I'm not familiar with histamine tests. Please have a read of these threads and if you don't find your answer, feel free to post and ask your questions there. 

 

Elimination or exclusion diets for reactions to food (food intolerance)

 

Histamine intolerance

HI Shep,

I did a histamine test and it was
9.00 nmol / l        ( the allowable limit is 9)
Looks like it's too high
Unfortunately, I can't interpret it and can't find a person to say if it also causes symptoms.

Another specific question I would have:
I have had powders in small doses (such as a 2mm sachet) in a pharmacy
In the morning I put it in my mouth and drink water, in the evening I take a full tablet
At the moment I take 2 sachets (4mg) in the morning
The pharmacy has set the shelf life of the powder at 2 months.
I looked to have the packages made in October 2020
Have they become weaker over time?
How much can they change with age?
Is it possible to check their strength to know what the actual strength is?

Xanax 0,5mg           1999-2019  a Xanax 0,5mg  a few times a month, if necessary

Cymbalta 30mg      2012-25.04.2018  tapering for 2-3 months,severe symptoms 1 week after the last dose

Amitriptyline  25mg   25.05.18-20.01.19 ,tapering in 2-3 months, insomnia, panic-anxiety, confusion, nausea

Valdoxan 25mg  10.02.19-10.03.19, did not stabilize the situation, Lorazepam  10.02.19-20.02.19  if necessary overnight 

Brintellix 5mg     10.03.19-30.06.19 ,did not stabilize the situation,  fears, confusion and insomnia, I was in the hospital for 1 week 

Olanzapine 5mg   01.03.19-02.08.19,to relieve insomnia, confusion increases, depression increases, severe akathisia occurs

Cymbalta 30mg 30.06.19-01.08.19,no longer works, the situation does not stabilize, again in the hospital for 2 weeks

Levomepromazine 5mg  03.08.19-20.12.19  helped sleep but increased confusion and depression

Anafranil 03.08.19-15.12.19   dose 75mg

  15.12.19-  tapering     every 3-4 weeks    17.05.20  was the dose  35mg , 01.01.21  was the dose 27mg     

                 

Link to comment
  • Administrator
19 hours ago, Estman said:

I have had powders in small doses (such as a 2mm sachet) in a pharmacy
In the morning I put it in my mouth and drink water, in the evening I take a full tablet
At the moment I take 2 sachets (4mg) in the morning
The pharmacy has set the shelf life of the powder at 2 months.
I looked to have the packages made in October 2020
Have they become weaker over time?
How much can they change with age?
Is it possible to check their strength to know what the actual strength is?

 

I'm not sure you can check the strength of the pills, although you may want to reach out to your local pharmacist. Usually going a few weeks past an expiration date isn't a problem for tablets or powder (for liquid it's more important). But for an expiration date of 2 months for packages dated October 2020, that would mean you're now 8 months passed the December expiration. 

 

When you get your next set of packages, you may want to gradually transition to the new powder in case there is a change in strength. You could crossover to the new powder by 25% increments every few days to allow your nervous system to adjust. 

Drug free May 22, 2015 after 30 years of neuroleptics, benzos, z-drugs, so-called "anti"-depressants, and amphetamines 

 

My Success Story:  Shep's Success: "Leaving Plato's Cave"

 

And what is good, Phaedrus, and what is not good — need we ask anyone to tell us these things? ~ Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice, but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

 

Link to comment

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Terms of Use Privacy Policy