chemicallyImbalanced: an introduction

[chemicallyImbalanced]

Hello, I am a 32 year old male from the UK. I live with my girlfriend and don't really have a support network - I don't have friends as such. I never told my girlfriend (of 2 years) about my mental health issues, I was pretty carefree on sertraline and in a position of relative strength. I suppose I lied to her in a way, led her to believe she was with somebody stable and strong. That illusion has now crumbled. 

 

Thank  you in advance  to anyone who continues to read this post, I understand it's quite lengthy. 

 

So, I have been on SSRI's since I was 17 after a suicide attempt, predominantly Sertraline. 

 

My life was relatively stable last year and in December I decided to taper from 100mg down to 50mg for a couple of weeks, then 25mg then gradually over approximately a month I quit altogether. I didn't bother to consult a doctor because I don't have a doctor as such, it's a different doctor every time I go - and none of them really know anything about my medical history, they just prescribed them as I asked - usually on a monthly or 3 monthly basis. 

 

In all honestly, sertraline 'works' for me, I definitely felt happier on it, but it still feels like it was nothing more than a drug addiction. I suffered less, but I feel like I was essentially numbing my pain through drugs. In fact, I feel like my whole adult life has been one big drug consumed lie. I feel like it's been wasted, I have never made any progress on one thing.

 

Anyway, I had some reasonably horrible withdrawl symptoms: electric shock feelings, tardive dyskinesia and many more that I'm sure people on here are unfortunately familiar with.  The one side effect that has never went away though - I'm unsure if it's a side effect or something compeltely unrelated, but I am so cold regardless of the external temperature. Particularly my hands and feet, but in general I am always cold.

 

I managed to pull through though and the side effects somewhat subsided. I started to change some habits in my life that I simply didn't see as problems when I was on sertraline. I quit smoking weed regularly, I quit sugar, cut down on coffee and tried to achieve a more stable sleep schedule. None of these things really seemed a problem when I was on the sertraline, probably because I was happy - although I was addicted to them all for years. 

 

Things were going relatively well, I was achieving decent grades at uni - better than I had been prior to quitting - and I had a decent routine and was developing healthier habits; writing, exercising etc.

 

The corona virus really knocked me off my feet. I have a somewhat paranoid disposition and covid 19 is understandably very stressful and confusing for everyone, but for someone with mental health conditions, it's the kind of triggering event that can really escalate into a full blown crisis. That's essentially what happened. 

 

Uni closed, my studies came to an end, the gyms closed, all the latent fears started to reappear that the world was ending and all my weaknesses of mind and body came back to the forefront of my attention. I realised how my studies (sport) aren't really necessary for society to function and I haven't learned any uses or skills to actually contribute to society because I've been so hindered my mental illness. I feel very weak and undeserving of my girlfriend who I'm considering leaving for her own sake - I really think it's unfair on her to be with someone like me, I am damaging her care free optimism and limiting her opportunities to enjoy life. I should never really have seduced her in the first place, it was selfish and cruel to lie. 

 

Anyway, I'm now at the stage where I'm crying regularly. No one wants to see an adult male weep like a child, but my despair is so pervasive. Everything is making me sad, I am ridiculously sensitive and really in a lot of pain. I think most people would just say 'you need to get help' which essentially means, you should go to the doctor and go back on anti-depressants. That's really been the only 'solution' to my problem since a young age and I feel like it's a regression, I feel like it would be akin to going back to an addiction. 

 

I think everything in my life has been an attempt to try and escape the overwhelming sense of pain I feel rather than an enjoyment of anything in and of itself. Writing (journals), exercising, travelling, drugs, meditation, mindfulness, hypnosis, medications....the list is endless essentially, all just coping mechanisms to try and deal with my misery. The truth is, I am a self-obsessed weak person, perhaps not through anybody or anythings fault. 

 

I suppose I'll finish here. I never really made a specific point. 

[Gridley]

Welcome to SA, chemicallyImbalanced.

 

It's very good that your withdrawal symptoms are starting to fade after your fast taper.  Crying, sadness, pervasive despair and body temperature disregulation are typical withdrawal symptoms.

 

What is withdrawal syndrome.

 

Glenmullen’s withdrawal symptom list.

 

Body temperature dysregulation: fever, chills, shivering, too ...

 

When we take psychiatric medications, the CNS (central nervous system) responds by making changes over the months and years we take the drug(s). When the medication is discontinued, the CNS has to undo all the changes it made. Rebuilding the neurotransmitter production and reactivating the receptor and transporter cells takes time -- during that rebuilding process symptoms occur.  

 

Video:  Healing From Antidepressants - Patterns of Recovery

 

Instead of using drugs, we recommend the use on non-drug coping skills to deal with life.  Take a look at the links in the following link and see which ones you think might be of benefit to you.

 

 Non-drug techniques to cope

 

We don't recommend a lot of supplements on SA, as many members report being sensitive to them due to our over-reactive nervous systems, but two supplements that we do recommend are magnesium and omega 3 (fish oil). Many people find these to be calming to the nervous system. 

 

Magnesium, nature's calcium channel blocker 

 

Omega-3 fatty acids (fish oil) 

 

Add in one at a time and at a low dose in case you do experience problems.

 

This is your Introduction topic, where you can ask questions and connect with other members.  We're glad you found your way here.

 

 

 

[Cocopuffz17]

Hello, Welcome to SA. I have a very similar drug history as yours. I was prescribed paroxetine at 19-20 and came off at 31 years of age. All the things you describe are inline with what I experienced during withdrawals. Crying in no way is weakness. These are your emotions.... your emotions were blunted on the medication. I became an emotionless zombie after 11 years on the medication. 

 

Congrats on the lifestyle changes to help with getting off the medication. I personally do not believe in the chemical imbalance. I was told by medical "professionals" that this is what I had and why I would need the medication for life. I since have come off the medication and have had almost none of the original symptoms that I went on medication in the first place for return. Nutrition in my opinion is key to recovery as a majority of your serotonin is created in your gut. 

 

Everyday that passes is one day closer to being healed

[chemicallyImbalanced]

Overwhelmed

 

Hey, 

 

This forum is fantastic in providing in-depth information and seems to have highly intelligent members who have experience in dealing with a multitude of anti-depressants. 

 

However, I am finding the sheer volume of information and advice for tapering to be overwhelming. It's difficult to comprehend the advice because it's so in-depth and one of the side effects of being on these drugs is clouded thinking, lack of sleep, inability to concentrate etc.

 

What I am experiencing is logging on, reading over the general advice on withdrawing from sertraline (the SSRI I'm on) only to feel complete fatigue at how complicated the process is and just close the tab in frustration. 

 

How do people taper an SSRI by 10%? How do they have the time and energy to do that of their own accord? My experience of SSRI's has been the Dr usually wanting to double the dose (50mg sertraline to 100mg) when I've been depressed, and when reducing them, I was told just to decrease from 100mg to 50mg and then to take them every other day. How are you realistically supposed to taper 10%? Who has time to cut up pills or take exact measurements? Does sertraline even come in smaller doses than 25mg? I just don't know realistically how people with a mental illness have the ability to tamper with their drug dosage so much.

 

 

I would like to leave it to the professionals to administer the best dosage and drug to treat me, but that's clearly not happening, yet I don't have the capacity to do it myself. My stress threshold if very minimal, I struggle to perform even the simplest tasks let alone trying to understand liquidising tablets and what not. 

 

I just need some help and the Dr seems unable to provide it and I just don't have the resources to do it myself. 

Edited June 15, 2020 by ChessieCat
added topic title

[ChessieCat]

Please create your drug signature.  We ask all members to created a drug signature so that the moderators can see your history at a glance.

 

Please include any other drugs you have previously or are currently taking.  Instructions for what is needed:  please-summarize-your-withdrawal-history-in-your-signature

 

This link goes to your signature.  Remember to Save after creating/editing it.  Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature

 

Thank you.

[Gridley]

2 hours ago, chemicallyImbalanced said:

 

How do people taper an SSRI by 10%? How do they have the time and energy to do that of their own accord? How are you realistically supposed to taper 10%? Who has time to cut up pills or take exact measurements? Does sertraline even come in smaller doses than 25mg? I just don't know realistically how people with a mental illness have the ability to tamper with their drug dosage so much.

 

 

That's what we're here to help you do.  Doctors, as you noted, can't help you.  The process may seem overwhelming but it's very do-able.

 

Are you still on Sertraline?  Please complete the drug signature requested by ChessieCat in the previous post.  That will be a big help to us.

 

[ChessieCat]

I've merged your new Intro topic with your originally topic.  One Introduction topic per member, the place to can ask questions, journal your progress and connect with the community.

 

We understand that it can be overwhelming at the beginning.  We can help get you started.  Once you are set up and know what to do it isn't that difficult.  There is a vast amount of information on SA.  We direct members to the information so that we don't have to repeat what is already available.  We do expect members to make their best effort to read the information.  If after reading it there is something that you don't understand or information you are unable to find, then please post in your topic so that the mods, mentors and other members can help you.

 

When asking a specific question to which you would like a response, because it can get lost if it is asked with in a lot of text in a post, please put your question on a separate line so that it stands out.  Writing it like this would be helpful.  Thank you.  Example:

 

Q: xxx xxxx xxxx xxxxxx xxxx?

 

Sertraline tablets can be dissolved in water.

 

If you put:

 

     25mg tablet in 25mL of water each 1mL of liquid will = 1mg sertraline

 

     50mg tablet in 50mL of water each 1mL of liquid will = 1mg sertraline

 

     100mg tablet in 100mL of water each 1mL of liquid will = 1mg sertraline

 

See Post #1 of this topic: 

 

Tips for tapering off Zoloft (sertraline)

 

If you find it difficult to measure small amounts of liquid you can increase the amount of water in which you dissolved the liquid.

 

To get the best accuracy and consistency do everything the same way, using the same equipment.  Even use the same are of the bench or table when measuring the water because surfaces can have uneven areas.

 

Stir thoroughly before measuring out the dose.

 

The remaining liquid can be stored in the fridge in a covered container for about 3 days.

 

If you find that a white film forms at the bottom of the container you could add a tiny bit of alcohol.  Please see this topic for more information:

 

how-to-make-a-liquid-from-tablets-or-capsules

 

using-an-oral-syringe-and-other-tapering-techniques

 

how-to-make-a-liquid-from-tablets-or-capsules

 

[chemicallyImbalanced]

Advice would be welcome

 

Hello,

 

I have been off all medication for approx 10 months. Initially, I suffered from (horrible) common withdrawal symptoms, insomnia, akathisia etc. Most of them subsided within a couple of torturous months. 

 

Since then I have been eating well (apart form the occasional sugar binge), exercising regularly, sleeping 8/9 hours per night - generally looking after myself. However, I suffer from obsessive thoughts, suicidal ideation and excessive crying - proper wailing from an emotional pain so overwhelming I can't put into words. I think this is very unlikely to be related to withdrawal symptoms as SSRI has been flushed out my system for awhile. I actually suffered this kind of despair which originally led to me being medicated. 

 

I don't think my depressive symptoms are circumstantial or existential, I think I have an illness. The problem I face is that I'm a real suicide risk in the present state, but I desperately don't want to resort back to taking an SSRI again and suffer from the side-effects all over again. I have an appointment with a psychiatrist on Wednesday, but it's de ja vu. I don't think most of them really understand the suffering associated with the drugs they prescribe. I know most of them are trying desperately to help.

 

I've tried meditation; mindfulness; supplementing on fish oil, magnesium, zinc and vitamin D3; journal writing; drugs; hypnosis; CBT; distractions; travellling; working; exercising; psychotherapy , sex, relationships etc but I get no joy in life. My whole life has basically been trying to find ways to escape from the constant dread, terror and sadness.

 

I don't feel like there is anything new to try and the older I get the greater the realisation that I am deteriorating and my life has been meaningless. I haven't contributed to society and I am unable to function well enough to do so. I can't concentrate on anything or understand anything anymore - whether this would have happened without years medicated,  don't know. I don't seem to have any original thoughts.  

 

Edited November 9, 2020 by ChessieCat
added topic title

[ChessieCat]

On 6/16/2020 at 7:54 AM, ChessieCat said:

I've merged your new Intro topic with your originally topic.  One Introduction topic per member,

 

Please do not create any new Introduction topics.  Thank you.

[ChessieCat]

52 minutes ago, chemicallyImbalanced said:

I don't think my depressive symptoms are circumstantial or existential, I think I have an illness.

 

It seems like you may believe the myth of chemical imbalance.  Chemical imbalance was a theory which was disproven at least 20 years ago.

 

again-chemical-imbalance-is-a-myth-stop-the-lies-please

 

However when we take psychiatric drugs, we do add chemicals to the brain and the brain adapts to getting those chemicals.  When we remove them too quickly the brain scrambles to try to regain homeostasis.  That is why we experience withdrawal symptoms.  It is the result of the brain trying to sort things out.

 

You also tapered much too quickly, roughly a 4 month period to get off 100mg.  Even though you tapered it was almost equivalent to a cold turkey.

 

What you are experiencing is withdrawal symptoms after stopping your drug too quickly. 

 

Dr Joseph Glenmullen's WD Symptoms Checklist

 

Please see the links to sub-topics in Post #1 of this topic: 

 

are-we-there-yet-how-long-is-withdrawal-going-to-take

 

The only known way to reduce withdrawal symptoms is to take a small amount of the drug to which the brain has adapted.  There is no guarantee that reinstatement will work and generally the earlier it is done the more chance there is of it being successful.  However we do have members here at SA who have reinstated after being off their drug for many months and have had relief from their symptoms.  The idea of reinstating isn't to get rid of withdrawal symptoms completely but to bring them to a bearable level.

 

If you are interested in trying a reinstatement please let us know and we can suggest a dose for your to try.  Please note that the dose will be a very tiny amount, possibly as little as 1mg sertraline.  It is better start with a small dose and increase as needed than to risk taking too much.  If you take took much it might make things worse.

 

It takes about 4 days for a dose to get to full level in the blood and a bit longer for it to register i the brain.  If after 1 week your symptoms haven't improved, or only improved a small amount then we would reassess and possibly increase by another small amount.

 

Please carefully read Post #1 of this topic and let us know what you think.

 

About reinstating and stabilizing to reduce withdrawal symptoms

 

Tips for tapering off Zoloft (sertraline)

 

[chemicallyImbalanced]

Hi, thanks for replying.

 

I don't believe in the chemical imbalance theory, my username was made in irony.

 

However, I also don't believe it's sensible to automatically assume that my despair is down to withdrawal symptoms 10 months later. I could understand it if my symptoms were similar to the initial ones I experienced - akathisia, insomnia, temperature fluctuations etc. but that has all dissipated and what I am experiencing is real psychological distress, similar to what I experienced prior to beginning anti-depressants. 

 

Don't get me wrong, I think there's a large number of cases where depression is fleeting, existential or circumstantial, but there are some cases that may have a biological basis (unfortunately I think I fall into this category because regardless of circumstances, the unbearable mental anguish persists). What I mean is, it's not fair to dismiss what may be genuine illness as withdrawal symptoms as it's equally unfair to assume someone is depressed when they are actually experiencing withdrawal. 

 

My dilemma is what steps and measure might treat my illness that don't resort to taking SSRI, and I can't find any. I desperately don't want to start one again as some of the side-effects are unbearable, but I'm at a real risk of suicide as I notice myself contemplating it more often and when I get into a certain frame of mind and get beyond a certain threshold of pain it seems a likely outcome. I really want help and I want to be treated, but not through taking something that causes more pain short and long-term. It's a horribly desperate position to be in.

 

 

Edited November 10, 2020 by ChessieCat
removed quote

[ChessieCat]

On 4/18/2020 at 7:14 PM, chemicallyImbalanced said:

I have been on SSRI's since I was 17 after a suicide attempt, predominantly Sertraline. 

 

Thank you for creating your drug signature.  Please edit it to include information about ALL drugs/supplements, current AND previous, so that we have a complete history of your drugs.  Thank you.  This link goes straight to your own signature.  Remember to click save.

 

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[ChessieCat]

I've asked the other mods to check in on you.

[Altostrata]

Welcome, chemicallyimbalanced.

 

On 4/18/2020 at 2:14 AM, chemicallyImbalanced said:

Anyway, I had some reasonably horrible withdrawl symptoms: electric shock feelings, tardive dyskinesia and many more that I'm sure people on here are unfortunately familiar with.  The one side effect that has never went away though - I'm unsure if it's a side effect or something compeltely unrelated, but I am so cold regardless of the external temperature. Particularly my hands and feet, but in general I am always cold.

 

How long did "electric shock feelings, tardive dyskinesia and many more" last? What do you mean by "tardive dyskinesia"? Did you have weeping spells?

 

Did you have withdrawal symptoms throughout your reduction of sertaline October 2019-January 2020? How was your sleep during this time? How is it now?

 

16 hours ago, chemicallyImbalanced said:

However, I also don't believe it's sensible to automatically assume that my despair is down to withdrawal symptoms 10 months later. I could understand it if my symptoms were similar to the initial ones I experienced - akathisia, insomnia, temperature fluctuations etc. but that has all dissipated and what I am experiencing is real psychological distress, similar to what I experienced prior to beginning anti-depressants. 

 

We have many people here who are still recovering from post-acute withdrawal syndrome after many months. They also might experience real psychological distress.

 

On 4/18/2020 at 2:14 AM, chemicallyImbalanced said:

Uni closed, my studies came to an end, the gyms closed, all the latent fears started to reappear that the world was ending and all my weaknesses of mind and body came back to the forefront of my attention. I realised how my studies (sport) aren't really necessary for society to function and I haven't learned any uses or skills to actually contribute to society because I've been so hindered my mental illness. I feel very weak and undeserving of my girlfriend who I'm considering leaving for her own sake - I really think it's unfair on her to be with someone like me, I am damaging her care free optimism and limiting her opportunities to enjoy life. I should never really have seduced her in the first place, it was selfish and cruel to lie. 

 

Please read:

 

Ways to cope with daily anxiety

 

Shame, guilt, regret, and self-criticism

 

Health anxiety, hypochondria, and obsession with symptoms

 

Deep emotional pain and crying spells, spontaneous weeping

[ChessieCat]

You might find these helpful.  There may be symptoms that you are experiencing or have experienced that you havene't realised are withdrawal symptoms.  The symptom checklist lists 58 symptoms (not exhaustive though)  which can be experienced after reducing the drug too quickly:

 

Dr Joseph Glenmullen's WD Symptoms Checklist

 

The withdrawal symptoms can continue for a long time after stopping the drug.  However unless a person is aware of this they are likely to put their symptoms down to some other cause especially if they didn't appear close to the time of stopping the drug.  I cold turkeyed citalopram and felt great for a couple of months and then got very sick and was bedridden for 2.5 weeks with what seemed like the flu (but I was sure it wasn't), I couldn't eat and lost 8kgs.  My counsellor started me on a different drug (the like a diabetic needs insulin line) and thankfully the symptoms cleared.  However, when I found SA (after trying to reduce my new drug by 50% and got WD symptoms) I made the connection and understood that what I had experienced after the CT was delayed withdrawal symptoms.  Even members who have followed SA's protocol for tapering have reported symptoms once they have stopped the drug.

 

I find this helpful in understanding what happens:

 

On 12/27/2015 at 6:37 AM, Altostrata said:

 

Basically- you have a building where the MAJOR steel structures are [...] to be rebuilt at different times - ALL while people are coming and going in the building and attempting to work.

It would be like if the World Trade Center Towers hadn't completely fallen - but had crumbled inside in different places.. Imagine if you were [...] to rebuild the tower - WHILE people were coming and going and [...] to work in the building!  You'd have to set up a temporary elevator - but when you needed to fix part of that area, you'd have to tear down that elevator and set up a temporary elevator somewhere else. And so on. You'd have to build, work around, then tear down, then build again, then work around, then build... ALL while people are coming and going, ALL while the furniture is being replaced, ALL while the walls are getting repainted... ALL while [...] is going on INSIDE the building. No doubt it would be chaotic. That is EXACTLY what is happening with windows and waves.  The windows are where the body has "got it right" for a day or so - but then the building shifts and the brain works on something else - and it's chaos again while another temporary pathway is set up to reroute function until repairs are made.

 

 

 

protracted-withdrawal-or-paws-post-acute-withdrawal-syndrome-how-long-does-it-last

 

There are links to sub topics in Post #1 of this topic, including one about cold turkey/fast taper:

 

are-we-there-yet-how-long-is-withdrawal-going-to-take

 

Also see:

 

What is Withdrawal Syndrome?



Brain Remodelling

 

And I really like the Rubik's cube analogy:

Video:  Healing From Antidepressants - Patterns of Recovery

 

There are many existing topic on this site.  To find them use a search engine and add site:survivingantidepressants.org to the search term.

[Shep]

On 11/10/2020 at 4:20 AM, chemicallyImbalanced said:

Don't get me wrong, I think there's a large number of cases where depression is fleeting, existential or circumstantial, but there are some cases that may have a biological basis (unfortunately I think I fall into this category because regardless of circumstances, the unbearable mental anguish persists). What I mean is, it's not fair to dismiss what may be genuine illness as withdrawal symptoms as it's equally unfair to assume someone is depressed when they are actually experiencing withdrawal. 

 

The concept that the mind can be diseased is impossible, as the mind is an abstract concept. It cannot be diseased any more than the soul can be diseased. 

 

However, there are health issues that can cause fatigue and make us feel anxious and lacking in motivation. Vitamin B12 and vitamin D deficiency can cause this. A poor diet and lack of exercise can also cause this. Dealing with early-life trauma and ongoing difficult circumstances can also be something that doctors easily conflate with a pathological disorder, but they are just what they are - problems in living due to situations that may be out of your immediate control. 

 

On 4/18/2020 at 5:14 AM, chemicallyImbalanced said:

The corona virus really knocked me off my feet. I have a somewhat paranoid disposition and covid 19 is understandably very stressful and confusing for everyone, but for someone with mental health conditions, it's the kind of triggering event that can really escalate into a full blown crisis. That's essentially what happened. 

 

 

This is called a spiral. Please see:

 

Dealing With Emotional Spirals

 

 

 

On 4/18/2020 at 5:14 AM, chemicallyImbalanced said:

Anyway, I'm now at the stage where I'm crying regularly. No one wants to see an adult male weep like a child, but my despair is so pervasive. Everything is making me sad, I am ridiculously sensitive and really in a lot of pain.

 

These are neuro-emotions, which are very common during withdrawal:

 

Neuro-emotion

 

Deep emotional pain and crying spells, spontaneous weeping

Shame, guilt, regret, and self-criticism

 

On 11/9/2020 at 5:56 PM, chemicallyImbalanced said:

I have an appointment with a psychiatrist on Wednesday, but it's de ja vu. I don't think most of them really understand the suffering associated with the drugs they prescribe. I know most of them are trying desperately to help.

 

No, they're not there to help. Psychiatry is not a field of medicine, it's social control. They're trying to adjust you to your environment with drugs. If you don't want drugs, I would go see a trauma-informed therapist (one who can't prescribe drugs) and see if you can find better ways of coping. Perhaps even talk to someone about changing your current vocational path, since you mentioned you would like to do more with your life. Turn a difficult time into ways of helping the world and see if you feel more motivated and connected. You should like a very sensitive person who has a lot to give the world. 

 

You may wish to wait until you're feeling better from withdrawal to make any life decisions, though. Give yourself time to recover. 

 

There are many ways of finding things that make you feel better. If you don't feel psychiatry is right for you, then I would avoid it. 

 

 

[ChessieCat]

Video:  Simple Truths About Psychiatry - Series of 10 by Dr Peter Breggin