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Ollie, Ollie Oxen Free, Managing The Endgame Taper


brassmonkey

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3 hours ago, bubbles said:

It is getting a little trickier to taper at 10% as I'm currently restricted to 0.1mg increments.

I'm around 2% also.  I'm using the scale and am limited to 1mgpw (mg pill weight) decrements, which with my brand of Lexapro works out to 0.1mgai (active ingredient) decrements.  When I dropped from 4mgpw to 3mgpw the drop was 25%, and when I go from 3mg to 2mg it will be 33% and from 2 to 1 will be 50%. I'm holding longer now, 6 weeks instead of 4.

Edited by Gridley

Gridley Introduction

 

Lexapro 20 mg since 2004.  Begin Brassmonkey Slide Taper Jan. 2017.   

End 2017 year 1 of taper at 9.25mg 

End 2018 year 2 of taper at 4.1mg

End 2019 year 3 of taper at 1.0mg  

Oct. 30, 2020  Jump to zero from 0.025mg.  Current dose: 0.000mg

3 year, 10 month taper is 100% complete.

 

Ativan 1 mg 1986-1991 CT, soon reinstated.  CT 2000. RI 1 mg 2011-2016.  Sept. 2016  0.625mg X 3

Nov.27, 2020, 7-week Ativan-Valium crossover + change to one 18.75mg dose, w/1 month hold.

Feb. 9, 2021, begin 10% every 4 weeks taper.  Current dose as of March 22: 14.4mgai.

 

Imipramine 75 mg daily since 1986.  Jan. 2016 began every 3-weeks 10% taper, down to 16mgai (0.44mgpw).  Aug 2016, discovered SA, holding at 16mg.  Taper is 78% complete.  

  

Supplements: omega, vitamins C, E and D3, magnesium glycinate, probiotic, zinc, melatonin .3mg.


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice, but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

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I AM IN THE PROCESS OF REWRITING SECTIONS OF THIS POST TO INCREASE THE CLARITY   Ollie, Ollie Oxen Free: Managing the Endgame Taper By Brassmonkey   Ollie, Ollie, Oxen Free, t

@brassmonkey   Wow.  Thanks for your time and effort to clarify  the endgame taper. I learned several things tonight after reading the above.  The fun thing is that it prompted me to lo

Your close md, but still off by a power of 10. My calculator says 1.42 -4  so it would be 0.000142.  This would round easily to 0.0002 which is 0.2mgai. That is right where you want to be for a Target

On 4/23/2020 at 12:50 AM, brassmonkey said:

If a person is stable and not experiencing extreme symptoms by the time they get to 1mgai it is time to switch to a more aggressive taper. That would consist of reductions of 25%, 33%, 50% and 100%.  Holding at each dose for around six weeks. This will give doses of 0.75mgai, 0.5mgai 0.25mgai and finally the jump to "0". Using a hold period of six weeks that will give a total taper time of 18 weeks or three and a half months

@brassmonkey Rather going for 25% 33% 50% 100%. May we go by 4% every week for 25%.

Then may we go another reduction 33% by every two week as 10 or 11% andso.

50% by evey week by 8% 

100% by every week by 16%.

Need clarification.

 

(6 Aug 2019 start taper 4.8mg, 5 Sep - 4mg,

16 oct 19- 3mg, 28 nov 19 - 2mg, 11 may 20 -1mg

1 oct 20- 0.5mg, 24 dec 20 - 0.25mg,

5 jan 21- 0.2375, 9 jan 21 - 0.225, 13 jan 21 - 0.2125,

17 jan 21-  0.2, 21 jan 21 - 0.1875, 25 jan 21 - 0.175,

29 jan 21 - 0.1625, 2 feb 21 - 0.15, 6 feb 21 - 0.1375,

10 feb 21 - 0.125, 14 feb 21 - 0.1125, 18 feb 21 - 0.1, 

22 feb  - 0.0875, 26 feb - 0.075 , 2 mar - 0.0625, 

9 mar - 0.05625, 13 mar- .05, 17 mar - 0.04375,

 22 mar- 0.0375, 27 mar- .03125, 31 mar- 0.025 )

End game Taper from  0.5mg to 0.125mg

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brassmonkey

Miyan-- I am in the process of rewriting this entire article and will be going into a lot more detail there. The numbers and taper schedule in the present article are inaccurate and are going to change.

 

What you are asking would be one way to do it if you are using a liquid. The problem with trying that with a powder is that the divisions are so small and rather inaccurate that it would be more bother than it's worth.

20 years on Paxil starting at 20mg and working up to 40mg. Sept 2011 started 10% every 6 weeks taper (2.5% every week for 4 weeks then hold for 2 additional weeks), currently at 7.9mg. Oct 2011 CTed 15oz vodka a night, to only drinking 2 beers most nights, totally sober Feb 2013.

Since I wrote this I have continued to decrease my dose by 10% every 6 weeks (2.5% every week for 4 weeks and then hold for an additional 2 weeks). I added in an extra 6 week hold when I hit 10mg to let things settle out even more. When I hit 3mgpw it became hard to split the drop into 4 parts so I switched to dropping 1mgpw (pill weight) every week for 3 weeks and then holding for another 3 weeks.  The 3 + 3 schedule turned out to be too harsh so I cut back to dropping 1mgpw every 4 weeks which is working better.

Current dose 0.000mg 04-15-2017

 

"It's also important not to become angry, no matter how difficult life is, because you can loose all hope if you can't laugh at yourself and at life in general."  Stephen Hawking

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(6 Aug 2019 start taper 4.8mg, 5 Sep - 4mg,

16 oct 19- 3mg, 28 nov 19 - 2mg, 11 may 20 -1mg

1 oct 20- 0.5mg, 24 dec 20 - 0.25mg,

5 jan 21- 0.2375, 9 jan 21 - 0.225, 13 jan 21 - 0.2125,

17 jan 21-  0.2, 21 jan 21 - 0.1875, 25 jan 21 - 0.175,

29 jan 21 - 0.1625, 2 feb 21 - 0.15, 6 feb 21 - 0.1375,

10 feb 21 - 0.125, 14 feb 21 - 0.1125, 18 feb 21 - 0.1, 

22 feb  - 0.0875, 26 feb - 0.075 , 2 mar - 0.0625, 

9 mar - 0.05625, 13 mar- .05, 17 mar - 0.04375,

 22 mar- 0.0375, 27 mar- .03125, 31 mar- 0.025 )

End game Taper from  0.5mg to 0.125mg

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Greenriver

Oh my God, I hope I'm reading this correctly.

 

I'm currently at 2.4mg of Fluoxetine. Do you mean when I reach 1mg, I can start dropping by 25% and potentially be off the stuff in two years? I assumed you had to be very careful with the drops below 1mg, due to how steep the serotonin occupancy curve is at the lower doses.

Past four years: Fluoxetine, 10mg; currently tapered down to 2.8mg. 

Diazepam, 5mg, once daily (goes up to 8mg sometimes during taper). 

1999-2016: Mainly sertraline but also Venlafaxine  and Paroxetine. 

31 Oct: discontinued Fluoxetine.

1 Nov 2019: started Sertraline, 12.5mg, once every two days. 

13 Nov 2019: Reinstated Fluoxetine due to adverse effects from Sertraline. Plan to start Citalopram once stabilised on Fluoxetine 

 

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brassmonkey

The actual start point for the Endgame Taper is different for each different drug. But yes, once you get to a very low dose it may be possible to speed things up a bit depending on how your are feeling at the time. Symptom load and your reaction to reductions are quite important in determining things.

 

Please note that this article is in the process of being rewritten to improve it's accuracy. The new article is forthcoming and will contain more detailed information.  For right now this article is more for reference only.

20 years on Paxil starting at 20mg and working up to 40mg. Sept 2011 started 10% every 6 weeks taper (2.5% every week for 4 weeks then hold for 2 additional weeks), currently at 7.9mg. Oct 2011 CTed 15oz vodka a night, to only drinking 2 beers most nights, totally sober Feb 2013.

Since I wrote this I have continued to decrease my dose by 10% every 6 weeks (2.5% every week for 4 weeks and then hold for an additional 2 weeks). I added in an extra 6 week hold when I hit 10mg to let things settle out even more. When I hit 3mgpw it became hard to split the drop into 4 parts so I switched to dropping 1mgpw (pill weight) every week for 3 weeks and then holding for another 3 weeks.  The 3 + 3 schedule turned out to be too harsh so I cut back to dropping 1mgpw every 4 weeks which is working better.

Current dose 0.000mg 04-15-2017

 

"It's also important not to become angry, no matter how difficult life is, because you can loose all hope if you can't laugh at yourself and at life in general."  Stephen Hawking

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Greenriver

Brilliant. One of the most depressing things about tapering is the length of time it takes. I thought I had another 4-5 years left. Honestly, I was debating whether to just admit defeat and stay on the stuff for life. This changes everything 

Past four years: Fluoxetine, 10mg; currently tapered down to 2.8mg. 

Diazepam, 5mg, once daily (goes up to 8mg sometimes during taper). 

1999-2016: Mainly sertraline but also Venlafaxine  and Paroxetine. 

31 Oct: discontinued Fluoxetine.

1 Nov 2019: started Sertraline, 12.5mg, once every two days. 

13 Nov 2019: Reinstated Fluoxetine due to adverse effects from Sertraline. Plan to start Citalopram once stabilised on Fluoxetine 

 

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On 7/7/2020 at 6:04 AM, Greenriver said:

Brilliant. One of the most depressing things about tapering is the length of time it takes. I thought I had another 4-5 years left. Honestly, I was debating whether to just admit defeat and stay on the stuff for life. This changes everything 

 

it does, doesn't it. I'm at 2.1mg, or 2.1% of my original dose. It would be amazing if I could be off sooner than I'd anticipated, but then I'm also content to leave the last titch for much longer, if it makes the chances of longer term success more likely. Getting off isn't useful if it is followed by needing to go on again etc.

 

Has the thinking changed on those last few percent of the taper? I'd thought that really the end was the part where we needed to go extra slowly.

2005 St John's Wort / 2006-2012 Lexapro 20mg, 2 failed attempts to stop, tapered over 4.5 months in early 2012

January 2013 started Sertraline, over time worked up to 100mg

July 2014 Sertraline dropped from 100mg to 75mg, held for six months, slower tapering until 2019 22 Dec 3.2mg

2020 Sertraline 19 Jan 3.1mg, 26 Jan 3.0mg; 1 Mar 2.9, 7 Mar 2.8, May (some drops here) 24 May 2.5, May 29 2.4, June 21 2.3, June 28 2.2mg,  July 4 2.1mg, July 24 (or maybe a bit before) 2mg, early Nov switched to home made suspension; 29 Nov 1.8mg; approx 25 Dec 1.6mg)

2021 Some time in about Jan/Feb realised my dosing was off and as probably on more like 1.8mg and possible mixing error in making suspension; doses after 10 Feb accurate; 10 Feb 1.6mg; 7 Mar 1.4

 

My thread here at SA: https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/1775-bubbles/page/17/

CurrentSertraline: 7 Mar 1.4mg / Armour Thyroid / endless allergy meds, erg

 

 

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Greenriver
14 hours ago, bubbles said:

 

it does, doesn't it. I'm at 2.1mg, or 2.1% of my original dose. It would be amazing if I could be off sooner than I'd anticipated, but then I'm also content to leave the last titch for much longer, if it makes the chances of longer term success more likely. Getting off isn't useful if it is followed by needing to go on again etc.

 

Has the thinking changed on those last few percent of the taper? I'd thought that really the end was the part where we needed to go extra slowly.

I hope it’s true. I don’t quite understand it myself. Perhaps at 1mg the drug has less of a hold on you, so to speak, and you can drop quicker. If not, I might just switch to low-dose Citalopram and be done with tapering for a while. Life is too short. Prozac gives me unpleasant blood pumping stimulation, even at low doses. If I can get off it in two years or less though, I’ll stick it out. Perhaps once I reach 1mg the stimulation will lessen

Past four years: Fluoxetine, 10mg; currently tapered down to 2.8mg. 

Diazepam, 5mg, once daily (goes up to 8mg sometimes during taper). 

1999-2016: Mainly sertraline but also Venlafaxine  and Paroxetine. 

31 Oct: discontinued Fluoxetine.

1 Nov 2019: started Sertraline, 12.5mg, once every two days. 

13 Nov 2019: Reinstated Fluoxetine due to adverse effects from Sertraline. Plan to start Citalopram once stabilised on Fluoxetine 

 

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ChessieCat

I've personally decided not to risk it.  It will be 5 years at the end of this October since I started tapering off 100mg Pristiq.  It's also cost me a lot of money for compounded capsules, although I was very fortunate that my pharmacist was charging me the lowest he could and never increased the price over the whole time ($15 per 100 capsules).  One day I will go back over my credit card statements and work out how much it has cost.  Thankfully I haven't had to pay full cost for my regular prescription (subsidised because I receive unemployment benefits) which also meant that I have been able to keep taking the brand, not generic.

 

The way I see it is that I've managed to be patient and get this far with very little issues so if the total takes 6 years so be it.  It could be that I might be able to get off in 6 months, but I don't know if going faster would cause problems.  After such a long time a few more months is not going to make much difference.

 

When I first came to SA I had hoped to be off by my 60th birthday.  I will be nearly 64 when I'm off.  But I'm doing okay withdrawal-wise and that is the main thing. 

NEW!!!     INTERVIEW with Altostrata, SA's founder    NEW!!! 

 

Plodding along inch by inch:  12" = 1',  3' =  36 " or 1 yard,  1760 yards  = 63,360" or 1 mile

Current from 17 Apr 2021:  Pristiq 0.2665mg  now holding each dose for 3 weeks

ADs since ~1992:  25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering Oct 2015 

My tapering program   My Intro (goes to my tapering graph)  My website

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions.

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10 hours ago, ChessieCat said:

I've personally decided not to risk it.  It will be 5 years at the end of this October since I started tapering off 100mg Pristiq.  It's also cost me a lot of money for compounded capsules, although I was very fortunate that my pharmacist was charging me the lowest he could and never increased the price over the whole time ($15 per 100 capsules).

 

That's an incredible price. I pay much more though I think I've found a good local supplier. Yes, it's expensive!

 

I'm not sure if I'll risk it or not. With capsules it isn't difficult to go down in 0.1mg increments - that's quite a small portion of my highest dose of 100mg. If I make the sertraline suspension I think I can do smaller cuts easily enough. I know, for me, that reinstating a tiny bit of the drug hasn't worked  in the past - when I've reinstated it's been back to square one, so I can't risk that happening. I will await the rewrite of the original post and evaluate then. But ultimately I want to be off, unscathed, and if I have to do that slowly, then so be it.

2005 St John's Wort / 2006-2012 Lexapro 20mg, 2 failed attempts to stop, tapered over 4.5 months in early 2012

January 2013 started Sertraline, over time worked up to 100mg

July 2014 Sertraline dropped from 100mg to 75mg, held for six months, slower tapering until 2019 22 Dec 3.2mg

2020 Sertraline 19 Jan 3.1mg, 26 Jan 3.0mg; 1 Mar 2.9, 7 Mar 2.8, May (some drops here) 24 May 2.5, May 29 2.4, June 21 2.3, June 28 2.2mg,  July 4 2.1mg, July 24 (or maybe a bit before) 2mg, early Nov switched to home made suspension; 29 Nov 1.8mg; approx 25 Dec 1.6mg)

2021 Some time in about Jan/Feb realised my dosing was off and as probably on more like 1.8mg and possible mixing error in making suspension; doses after 10 Feb accurate; 10 Feb 1.6mg; 7 Mar 1.4

 

My thread here at SA: https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/1775-bubbles/page/17/

CurrentSertraline: 7 Mar 1.4mg / Armour Thyroid / endless allergy meds, erg

 

 

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13 hours ago, Greenriver said:

Perhaps at 1mg the drug has less of a hold on you,

 

I don't know.  I did fine with dropping increasingly larger percentages from 1mgai (active ingredient) down to 0.4mgai over the past several months.  But  I've seen a considerable ramp up of symptoms since I dropped from 0.4mgai to 0.3mgai (a 25% drop). I'm using the scale and because of its limitations, I can reduce no less than 0.1mgai (for my brand of Lexapro that's 1mg pill weight), so I'm going to have to compensate with longer holds.

Gridley Introduction

 

Lexapro 20 mg since 2004.  Begin Brassmonkey Slide Taper Jan. 2017.   

End 2017 year 1 of taper at 9.25mg 

End 2018 year 2 of taper at 4.1mg

End 2019 year 3 of taper at 1.0mg  

Oct. 30, 2020  Jump to zero from 0.025mg.  Current dose: 0.000mg

3 year, 10 month taper is 100% complete.

 

Ativan 1 mg 1986-1991 CT, soon reinstated.  CT 2000. RI 1 mg 2011-2016.  Sept. 2016  0.625mg X 3

Nov.27, 2020, 7-week Ativan-Valium crossover + change to one 18.75mg dose, w/1 month hold.

Feb. 9, 2021, begin 10% every 4 weeks taper.  Current dose as of March 22: 14.4mgai.

 

Imipramine 75 mg daily since 1986.  Jan. 2016 began every 3-weeks 10% taper, down to 16mgai (0.44mgpw).  Aug 2016, discovered SA, holding at 16mg.  Taper is 78% complete.  

  

Supplements: omega, vitamins C, E and D3, magnesium glycinate, probiotic, zinc, melatonin .3mg.


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice, but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

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On 7/9/2020 at 4:28 PM, Gridley said:

 

I don't know.  I did fine with dropping increasingly larger percentages from 1mgai (active ingredient) down to 0.4mgai over the past several months.  But  I've seen a considerable ramp up of symptoms since I dropped from 0.4mgai to 0.3mgai (a 25% drop). I'm using the scale and because of its limitations, I can reduce no less than 0.1mgai (for my brand of Lexapro that's 1mg pill weight), so I'm going to have to compensate with longer holds.

Can you still feel the drug's effects/side-effects at the dosage you're on? 

Past four years: Fluoxetine, 10mg; currently tapered down to 2.8mg. 

Diazepam, 5mg, once daily (goes up to 8mg sometimes during taper). 

1999-2016: Mainly sertraline but also Venlafaxine  and Paroxetine. 

31 Oct: discontinued Fluoxetine.

1 Nov 2019: started Sertraline, 12.5mg, once every two days. 

13 Nov 2019: Reinstated Fluoxetine due to adverse effects from Sertraline. Plan to start Citalopram once stabilised on Fluoxetine 

 

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Would you say the withdrawal symptoms are just as bad as when you were dropping down from the higher dosage range?

Past four years: Fluoxetine, 10mg; currently tapered down to 2.8mg. 

Diazepam, 5mg, once daily (goes up to 8mg sometimes during taper). 

1999-2016: Mainly sertraline but also Venlafaxine  and Paroxetine. 

31 Oct: discontinued Fluoxetine.

1 Nov 2019: started Sertraline, 12.5mg, once every two days. 

13 Nov 2019: Reinstated Fluoxetine due to adverse effects from Sertraline. Plan to start Citalopram once stabilised on Fluoxetine 

 

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3 hours ago, Greenriver said:

Can you still feel the drug's effects/side-effects at the dosage you're on? 

I have had withdrawal symptoms (not side effects) to varying degrees for all of the taper down from 20mg.  The large majority of the time these symptoms have been tolerable, what we can WDnormal, not feeling good, not feeling too bad, without big swings in either direction).

 

Regarding your second question, are the symptoms just as bad as when I was dropping from the higher doses: as I said in my first post, right now they're worse but generally they've been about the same throughout the taper, some days better than others but within the same range of WDnormal.

 

Keep in mind that I'm on two other drugs, one of which I tapered too fast before discovering SA and then reinstated, so that might be contributing to my symptoms.

  

Edited by Gridley

Gridley Introduction

 

Lexapro 20 mg since 2004.  Begin Brassmonkey Slide Taper Jan. 2017.   

End 2017 year 1 of taper at 9.25mg 

End 2018 year 2 of taper at 4.1mg

End 2019 year 3 of taper at 1.0mg  

Oct. 30, 2020  Jump to zero from 0.025mg.  Current dose: 0.000mg

3 year, 10 month taper is 100% complete.

 

Ativan 1 mg 1986-1991 CT, soon reinstated.  CT 2000. RI 1 mg 2011-2016.  Sept. 2016  0.625mg X 3

Nov.27, 2020, 7-week Ativan-Valium crossover + change to one 18.75mg dose, w/1 month hold.

Feb. 9, 2021, begin 10% every 4 weeks taper.  Current dose as of March 22: 14.4mgai.

 

Imipramine 75 mg daily since 1986.  Jan. 2016 began every 3-weeks 10% taper, down to 16mgai (0.44mgpw).  Aug 2016, discovered SA, holding at 16mg.  Taper is 78% complete.  

  

Supplements: omega, vitamins C, E and D3, magnesium glycinate, probiotic, zinc, melatonin .3mg.


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice, but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

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Cheers, that's good to know the withdrawal symptoms are roughly the same at the lower doses. It must be very low receptor occupancy at your dosage. Well done getting that far. Hope your final journey to 0mg isn't too torturous.  I'm hoping the side-effects from Prozac (excessive stimulation and brain fog) will lessen at the lower doses. 2.4mg is still about 47% receptor occupancy. 1mg is about 29%.

 

It is kind of fascinating how monstrous these drugs are. Real witches' brew stuff.  I just found out my Mum's Doctor offered her antidepressants for insomnia. She suffers from mild stress due to money worries and it's affecting her sleep. She told my Mum they're completely non-addictive. Unbelievable. Thankfully she declined.

Past four years: Fluoxetine, 10mg; currently tapered down to 2.8mg. 

Diazepam, 5mg, once daily (goes up to 8mg sometimes during taper). 

1999-2016: Mainly sertraline but also Venlafaxine  and Paroxetine. 

31 Oct: discontinued Fluoxetine.

1 Nov 2019: started Sertraline, 12.5mg, once every two days. 

13 Nov 2019: Reinstated Fluoxetine due to adverse effects from Sertraline. Plan to start Citalopram once stabilised on Fluoxetine 

 

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Greenriver, would you mind sharing with me how you calculate receptor occupancy percentages?  I've read the Seratonoin Transporter Occupancy paper and looked at the graphs, but still don't get how to actually do the calculations.  My daughter, unfortunately, is on sertraline AND amitriptyline, so I'm interested in finding it out for both....

(my daughter: 20yrs old)  

Sertraline*: 2010: Aug 6:  START 50mg, Aug 17:  75mg, Sept 3: 100mg, Sept 10: 150mg, Oct 8: 75mg, Nov 17: 100mg / 2012:  Mar 15: 125mg, May 14: 150mg / 2016: Sept 1: 100mg /  2017: July 27: 50mg / 2019: July 1 - Aug 10 6-week taper from 50 to 0mg, Nov 6: begin severe withdrawal symptoms,  Nov 10: Reinstate 1mg

 

Other meds: (for genetic neurological movement disorder HSP diagnosed Sept 2016, prescribed by neurologist)

2017 May: begin: Baclofen* 20mg

2017 May: begin: Amitriptyline* 25mg  / 2020: Apr 20: reduced by 5% due to interaction with Noscapine, Jul 20: started 2%/month taper.

2018 Oct:  begin  Noscapine Base* 200mg / 2020 Apr 20: reduce to 150mg due to unavailability due to Covid19.  Withdrawal symptoms ensued.  Was able to get more late May.  Stayed at 150mg until stabilized.  2020 Aug 2 began 3.5%/month taper.

                                                                                                                                                                           

*Currently taking:     Sertraline 1mg / Amitriptyline 17.15mg / Baclofen 20mg / Noscapine Base 110mg

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On 7/10/2020 at 4:57 PM, Greenriver said:

 I'm hoping the side-effects from Prozac (excessive stimulation and brain fog) will lessen at the lower doses.

As a general rule, side effects lessen as dosage decreases.

Gridley Introduction

 

Lexapro 20 mg since 2004.  Begin Brassmonkey Slide Taper Jan. 2017.   

End 2017 year 1 of taper at 9.25mg 

End 2018 year 2 of taper at 4.1mg

End 2019 year 3 of taper at 1.0mg  

Oct. 30, 2020  Jump to zero from 0.025mg.  Current dose: 0.000mg

3 year, 10 month taper is 100% complete.

 

Ativan 1 mg 1986-1991 CT, soon reinstated.  CT 2000. RI 1 mg 2011-2016.  Sept. 2016  0.625mg X 3

Nov.27, 2020, 7-week Ativan-Valium crossover + change to one 18.75mg dose, w/1 month hold.

Feb. 9, 2021, begin 10% every 4 weeks taper.  Current dose as of March 22: 14.4mgai.

 

Imipramine 75 mg daily since 1986.  Jan. 2016 began every 3-weeks 10% taper, down to 16mgai (0.44mgpw).  Aug 2016, discovered SA, holding at 16mg.  Taper is 78% complete.  

  

Supplements: omega, vitamins C, E and D3, magnesium glycinate, probiotic, zinc, melatonin .3mg.


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice, but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

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On 7/13/2020 at 6:35 PM, Gertie said:

Greenriver, would you mind sharing with me how you calculate receptor occupancy percentages?  I've read the Seratonoin Transporter Occupancy paper and looked at the graphs, but still don't get how to actually do the calculations.  My daughter, unfortunately, is on sertraline AND amitriptyline, so I'm interested in finding it out for both....

 

Sorry Gertie, just getting your message

 

I calculated the serotonin receptor occupancy for Fluoxetine with this equation 86 x 20/(1.944+20). 20 being the dose you're on. So, I'm on 2.4mg of Fluoxetine, so my equation would be 86 x 2.4/(1.944+2.4). I found it on this thread:

 

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/6036-why-taper-sert-transporter-occupancy-studies-show-importance-of-gradual-change-in-plasma-concentration/page/3/

 

Unfortunately the equation that you would use for Sertaline and Amitriptyline is different from Fluoxetine. I'm not sure exactly as I can't find the info. Does anyone on here know the correct equation for these drugs?

Past four years: Fluoxetine, 10mg; currently tapered down to 2.8mg. 

Diazepam, 5mg, once daily (goes up to 8mg sometimes during taper). 

1999-2016: Mainly sertraline but also Venlafaxine  and Paroxetine. 

31 Oct: discontinued Fluoxetine.

1 Nov 2019: started Sertraline, 12.5mg, once every two days. 

13 Nov 2019: Reinstated Fluoxetine due to adverse effects from Sertraline. Plan to start Citalopram once stabilised on Fluoxetine 

 

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On 5/17/2020 at 2:47 PM, brassmonkey said:

Thanks Hayduke that's very helpful.  Yes, as you get more information please pass it along.

 

Hi Brassmonkey - I opened a different brand of generic this week, "Olanzapine RBX".  That 2.5mg pill weighs 0.077g.  Cheers

My taper visualised as a graph   |   My intro thread

I am not a health professional - your actions are your own

 

Backdrop:  10mg olanzapine 2003-06.  3mg risperidone 2006-2014.  Abortive x-taper to aripiprazole Dec 2014, back to 10mg olanzapine after 3 weeks.

2015:  10 -> 7 1/2 -> 6 2/3 -> 5mg olanzapine using pill cutter

2018:  Finer taper liquid suspension 5mg to 2.5 Mar-Aug and hold

2019: Jan 2.5 | Eostre EMDR@2.1mg | Jul 1.625 | Oct 1.3

2020: Jan 1.214 | Apr 0.88 | July 0.69 | Oct 0.525

2021: Jan EMDR@0.44 | Apr 0.38

"Ask not what you can do for your country, but what your country did to you"  -- KMFDM

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brassmonkey

Thanks Hayduke- I'll add it to the database.

20 years on Paxil starting at 20mg and working up to 40mg. Sept 2011 started 10% every 6 weeks taper (2.5% every week for 4 weeks then hold for 2 additional weeks), currently at 7.9mg. Oct 2011 CTed 15oz vodka a night, to only drinking 2 beers most nights, totally sober Feb 2013.

Since I wrote this I have continued to decrease my dose by 10% every 6 weeks (2.5% every week for 4 weeks and then hold for an additional 2 weeks). I added in an extra 6 week hold when I hit 10mg to let things settle out even more. When I hit 3mgpw it became hard to split the drop into 4 parts so I switched to dropping 1mgpw (pill weight) every week for 3 weeks and then holding for another 3 weeks.  The 3 + 3 schedule turned out to be too harsh so I cut back to dropping 1mgpw every 4 weeks which is working better.

Current dose 0.000mg 04-15-2017

 

"It's also important not to become angry, no matter how difficult life is, because you can loose all hope if you can't laugh at yourself and at life in general."  Stephen Hawking

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Venlafaxine Taper:

 

I have been throughout the taper  weighing the pills and then adding to a 10 ml syringe of water.  My scales will only go down to .0004 which equals a dose of 1.00 mg. Putting this into the syringe I get a dose of .10 mg in 1 ml of water  which I take twice a day giving a  total dose of .20 mg. 

 

I have been reading Brass Monkey's article on when to take the plunge to drop off.  As I can no longer weigh the pills, if I read the article  correctly I am to take the pill weighed out at .0004 and divide it into 4. The amount of pill is very tiny now but on a dark surface I can do this.  Then discard a quarter of this amount and put the remainder in the syringe as normal. Take this dose for 6 weeks and then take off another quarter and so on. 

 

I hope I am correct?   Would be grateful if someone could clarify as I am no mathematician!

 

Best Wishes

 

Flowers

 

(have also posted in my thread)

 

15 yrs on 20 to 30 mgs CITALOPRAM.  MAY 2014 Increased to 40 mgs per day.SEPT/NOV 2014 tapered in 6 weeks down to 10 mgs as per Dr instructions due to violent nightmares/palpitations.Given Noctamid (lormetazepam) to help with anxiety. On average took 2mg per day for 8 weeks.No taper was advised.DEC 2014 WD severe. Nervous tic in eyes and limbs, muscle pain,fluct  temp, weakness, dep and anxiety, nausea, giddy, unstable when walking. Different Dr suggested taking 20mgs CIT. BROMAZEPAM 3mgs up to 3 x daily for anxiety.DEC 9 2014 Updose CIT to 30mgs. Only taking BROMAZEPAM in emergency.DEC 31 2014 Settling at 30mg CIT - helping with depression. No Brom for 2wks.Found SA.APR 2015 Trying to stabilise on 30mgs CIT.  JAN 2016 Started Cit Taper reducing by 5% per month.  28.5 mgs 
FEB  Taper held bereavement. APR Taper resumed 27mgs . MAY 25.50 mgs .  JUNE 24 mgs .  JULY I stupidly mixed up my BP meds with CIT. Consequently took no CIT for 3 days and doubled my BP meds. Waiting for the fallout....Holding for a while until any chance of repercussions have abated. SEPT taper resumed to  22.5 mgs . OCT 21 mgs .NOV 19.95 mgs DEC crashed. 2017: FEB 3rd updose to 20.5 mgs to try to stabilise.FEB.switched over to 75mgs of Venlafaxine XR for 3 weeks.Too stimulating so switching back to Cit. 12 March 37.5 Ven and 20 Cit. 21 March 18mg Ven 20mg Cit. 4 April 9mg Ven 20mg Cit. Xanax .50mg when needed.  13 April 0 mgs Ven, 20mg Citalopram. Xanax .50 mg per day. 5 May reinstated a small amount of Ven to stabilize  1 mg twice a day. 20 mg Citalopram at night. Xanax .25 mg twice per day.Other Meds: Losartan (BP)Started 1993 at  50 mgs at night.  Seretide (Asthma) Started 1996 at 1 puff twice a day. Jan 2019 Antibiotic Ceclor 500mgs twice a day for bronchitis and  Atrovent 2ml capsules twice a day for asthma. Finished the course of both Jan 17. 

XANAX  Jan 27  - Feb 3 2019 Failed Valium Crossover.   Feb 14 2019  Updosed Xanax by .0625  Feb 17 2019 Decreased Xanax by .0625. Back to .50mg daily.  Update Xanax 28.2.20 tapered to .1250 mg 8am .25 mg midnight.

Current Meds 28.2.19: CITALOPRAM  20mg  taken at midnight. VENLAFAXINE  .9 mg twice a day at 8am and 10pm.  XANAX .50 mg split into 4 doses per day. 10am .0625mg / 2pm .1250mg/ 6pm .0625mg / midnight .25mg. LOSARTAN 50 mgs taken at midnight.  SERETIDE 1 puff taken at 8am and 10pm.   7.7.19 VENLAFAXINE UPDATE: Started tapering 10% every 4 weeks. Currently .4 mg twice a day at 8am and 10 pm.  2.9.19 .36 mg x 2. 1.10.19  .32 mg x 2. 26.11.19 .29 mg x2. 26.12.19 .26 mg  x 2. 23.1.20  .23 mg x 2.  20.2.20 .21 mg x2.20.3.20  .19 mg x 2. 21.4.20 .17 mg x 2. 19.5.20 .13 mg x 2.  18.6.20 .11mg  x 2 .18.7.20.10 mg x 2.1.9.20.09 mg x 2. 30.9. 20 .08 mg x 2. 1.11.20 .07 mg x 2.  2.12.20 .06 mg x 2.  8.1.21 .05 mg x 2.  4.2.21 .04 mg x 2. 9.3.21 .03 mgx2.  7.4.21  .02 mg x 2.

 

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@brassmonkey  Don't mean to bug you, but how's the article re-write coming?  I'm trying to wait patiently. 😇

2007 - 2008          Paxil and Klonopin

2008 - 2012           Mirtazapine following abrupt withdrawal from Klonopin/Paxil.  

2012                       Unsuccessful taper of mirtazapine; reinstated.     

7/2013 - 1/2014   Successfully tapered from 7.5 mg

 

7/19/17 ALPRAZOLAM 0.25 mg. - current  

                SERTRALINE  - 25 mg

Began taper Aug 4, 2017 - 25 mg;  Jan 1, 2018 - 12.5 mg;  Jan 16, 2019 - 2.6 mg;  Jan 5, 2020 - 1.0 mg;  Jan 3, 2021 - 0.27 Current dose:   Mar 10 - 0.165 mg;

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brassmonkey

Hi Terry-- The new article has been causing a lot of discussion between Alto and myself, there have been some general direction and small technique questions that needed to be worked out.  I'm in the middle of the revised draft right now, it's taking a lot longer than expected because of all the permutations that need to be addressed. The upshot is that the Endgame Taper is different from a regular taper because of managing the small amounts of medication involved and the fact that it is directed by listening to ones body for when to make reductions, instead of following a schedule.

 

One reason for the rewrite is that my original article indicated that the Endgame Taper could be seen as going much faster than a regular taper because of the way the Dry Cut dosing must be handled. When, in fact, it can end up being slower, depending on how one's body react. You still have a ways to go with your taper. I'm making a rough estimate of a Target Exit Dose of 0.07mg. This is just a rough estimate for a point to aim for and not a hard and fast number. Seeing as how you are at 0.50mg currently, it would be a good idea to really start paying attention to how your body reacts to each reduction.  Any spike in symptoms would be a signal to take a hold and let things stabilize before continuing. We don't want to be paranoid about the feelings, but rather let our body call the shots and do what it asks for and not what we think is best for it.

20 years on Paxil starting at 20mg and working up to 40mg. Sept 2011 started 10% every 6 weeks taper (2.5% every week for 4 weeks then hold for 2 additional weeks), currently at 7.9mg. Oct 2011 CTed 15oz vodka a night, to only drinking 2 beers most nights, totally sober Feb 2013.

Since I wrote this I have continued to decrease my dose by 10% every 6 weeks (2.5% every week for 4 weeks and then hold for an additional 2 weeks). I added in an extra 6 week hold when I hit 10mg to let things settle out even more. When I hit 3mgpw it became hard to split the drop into 4 parts so I switched to dropping 1mgpw (pill weight) every week for 3 weeks and then holding for another 3 weeks.  The 3 + 3 schedule turned out to be too harsh so I cut back to dropping 1mgpw every 4 weeks which is working better.

Current dose 0.000mg 04-15-2017

 

"It's also important not to become angry, no matter how difficult life is, because you can loose all hope if you can't laugh at yourself and at life in general."  Stephen Hawking

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On 4/21/2020 at 1:22 AM, brassmonkey said:

Using a hold period of six weeks this will give a total taper time of 18 weeks or three and a half months

@brassmonkey 18 weeks means Four and a half months?

(6 Aug 2019 start taper 4.8mg, 5 Sep - 4mg,

16 oct 19- 3mg, 28 nov 19 - 2mg, 11 may 20 -1mg

1 oct 20- 0.5mg, 24 dec 20 - 0.25mg,

5 jan 21- 0.2375, 9 jan 21 - 0.225, 13 jan 21 - 0.2125,

17 jan 21-  0.2, 21 jan 21 - 0.1875, 25 jan 21 - 0.175,

29 jan 21 - 0.1625, 2 feb 21 - 0.15, 6 feb 21 - 0.1375,

10 feb 21 - 0.125, 14 feb 21 - 0.1125, 18 feb 21 - 0.1, 

22 feb  - 0.0875, 26 feb - 0.075 , 2 mar - 0.0625, 

9 mar - 0.05625, 13 mar- .05, 17 mar - 0.04375,

 22 mar- 0.0375, 27 mar- .03125, 31 mar- 0.025 )

End game Taper from  0.5mg to 0.125mg

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brassmonkey

Good catch Miyan. Thanks for the edit I'll take care of that.

20 years on Paxil starting at 20mg and working up to 40mg. Sept 2011 started 10% every 6 weeks taper (2.5% every week for 4 weeks then hold for 2 additional weeks), currently at 7.9mg. Oct 2011 CTed 15oz vodka a night, to only drinking 2 beers most nights, totally sober Feb 2013.

Since I wrote this I have continued to decrease my dose by 10% every 6 weeks (2.5% every week for 4 weeks and then hold for an additional 2 weeks). I added in an extra 6 week hold when I hit 10mg to let things settle out even more. When I hit 3mgpw it became hard to split the drop into 4 parts so I switched to dropping 1mgpw (pill weight) every week for 3 weeks and then holding for another 3 weeks.  The 3 + 3 schedule turned out to be too harsh so I cut back to dropping 1mgpw every 4 weeks which is working better.

Current dose 0.000mg 04-15-2017

 

"It's also important not to become angry, no matter how difficult life is, because you can loose all hope if you can't laugh at yourself and at life in general."  Stephen Hawking

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On 8/4/2020 at 9:22 PM, brassmonkey said:

Hi Terry-- The new article has been causing a lot of discussion between Alto and myself, there have been some general direction and small technique questions that needed to be worked out.  I'm in the middle of the revised draft right now, it's taking a lot longer than expected because of all the permutations that need to be addressed. The upshot is that the Endgame Taper is different from a regular taper because of managing the small amounts of medication involved and the fact that it is directed by listening to ones body for when to make reductions, instead of following a schedule.

 

One reason for the rewrite is that my original article indicated that the Endgame Taper could be seen as going much faster than a regular taper because of the way the Dry Cut dosing must be handled. When, in fact, it can end up being slower, depending on how one's body react. You still have a ways to go with your taper. I'm making a rough estimate of a Target Exit Dose of 0.07mg. This is just a rough estimate for a point to aim for and not a hard and fast number. Seeing as how you are at 0.50mg currently, it would be a good idea to really start paying attention to how your body reacts to each reduction.  Any spike in symptoms would be a signal to take a hold and let things stabilize before continuing. We don't want to be paranoid about the feelings, but rather let our body call the shots and do what it asks for and not what we think is best for it.

I kind of thought it was a bit too good to be true. 5-6 years sounds more realistic to me than 18 months. Oh the joys.

Past four years: Fluoxetine, 10mg; currently tapered down to 2.8mg. 

Diazepam, 5mg, once daily (goes up to 8mg sometimes during taper). 

1999-2016: Mainly sertraline but also Venlafaxine  and Paroxetine. 

31 Oct: discontinued Fluoxetine.

1 Nov 2019: started Sertraline, 12.5mg, once every two days. 

13 Nov 2019: Reinstated Fluoxetine due to adverse effects from Sertraline. Plan to start Citalopram once stabilised on Fluoxetine 

 

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brassmonkey

It should be somewhere in between. If you are able to maintain our recommended schedule of 10% every 4 weeks you should be at 0.06mg in about two years.

20 years on Paxil starting at 20mg and working up to 40mg. Sept 2011 started 10% every 6 weeks taper (2.5% every week for 4 weeks then hold for 2 additional weeks), currently at 7.9mg. Oct 2011 CTed 15oz vodka a night, to only drinking 2 beers most nights, totally sober Feb 2013.

Since I wrote this I have continued to decrease my dose by 10% every 6 weeks (2.5% every week for 4 weeks and then hold for an additional 2 weeks). I added in an extra 6 week hold when I hit 10mg to let things settle out even more. When I hit 3mgpw it became hard to split the drop into 4 parts so I switched to dropping 1mgpw (pill weight) every week for 3 weeks and then holding for another 3 weeks.  The 3 + 3 schedule turned out to be too harsh so I cut back to dropping 1mgpw every 4 weeks which is working better.

Current dose 0.000mg 04-15-2017

 

"It's also important not to become angry, no matter how difficult life is, because you can loose all hope if you can't laugh at yourself and at life in general."  Stephen Hawking

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3 hours ago, brassmonkey said:

It should be somewhere in between. If you are able to maintain our recommended schedule of 10% every 4 weeks you should be at 0.06mg in about two years.

 

But remember to hold when necessary.  It is silly to push ahead just to get off the drug.  Some members have tried to go too quickly and it is taking/took them longer.  Some have ended up on different or additional drugs.  Some because destabilised and don't return to their previous stability.

 

Patience is the key.  Even being a mod here for 4 years and tapering for nearly 5 years somebody suggested to me the other day that it would be a good idea for me to hold for a while.  I'm recovering from a back injury and have been taking codeine, antihistamine and ibuprofen and I also had a tooth extracted a few weeks ago.  And of course the covid situation is also an added stress at the moment.

NEW!!!     INTERVIEW with Altostrata, SA's founder    NEW!!! 

 

Plodding along inch by inch:  12" = 1',  3' =  36 " or 1 yard,  1760 yards  = 63,360" or 1 mile

Current from 17 Apr 2021:  Pristiq 0.2665mg  now holding each dose for 3 weeks

ADs since ~1992:  25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering Oct 2015 

My tapering program   My Intro (goes to my tapering graph)  My website

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions.

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Two years isn't too bad. Even though I'm on a low dose now (2.4mg), I get really bad stimulation, especially at night. That's what makes me impatient to get off it. I don't remember getting this on the higher doses (10mg) of Prozac. I don't think its linked to withdrawal either, as I've been holding since January. It almost feels like my body is now allergic to the Prozac. In June I tried to switch over to Citalopram, 4mg,  but bottled it after a week. I did notice though that when I stopped the Prozac five days before I initiated the Citalopram, the stimulation completely vanished and my hair stopped falling out. Even the texture of it changed. My whole body felt relaxed and calm. When I told a friend that, he actually start shouting at me that I need to stop cold turkey. My family have the same view, that I'm somehow a weak person for not having the courage to just come off it. Unfortunately most people I know have no insight into withdrawal and just assume it is a three week affair.

Past four years: Fluoxetine, 10mg; currently tapered down to 2.8mg. 

Diazepam, 5mg, once daily (goes up to 8mg sometimes during taper). 

1999-2016: Mainly sertraline but also Venlafaxine  and Paroxetine. 

31 Oct: discontinued Fluoxetine.

1 Nov 2019: started Sertraline, 12.5mg, once every two days. 

13 Nov 2019: Reinstated Fluoxetine due to adverse effects from Sertraline. Plan to start Citalopram once stabilised on Fluoxetine 

 

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On 8/7/2020 at 7:47 AM, ChessieCat said:

 

But remember to hold when necessary.  It is silly to push ahead just to get off the drug.  Some members have tried to go too quickly and it is taking/took them longer.  Some have ended up on different or additional drugs.  Some because destabilised and don't return to their previous stability.

 

Yes me, though there were reasons for the faster attempt. Still, I was destabilised and ended up on another drug and had to restabilise and start over again. This time I'm at the six year mark and think I have another year to go. Or more, it will depend on how things go. This time I've had many, many long holds and gone slowly, it's been much better.

2005 St John's Wort / 2006-2012 Lexapro 20mg, 2 failed attempts to stop, tapered over 4.5 months in early 2012

January 2013 started Sertraline, over time worked up to 100mg

July 2014 Sertraline dropped from 100mg to 75mg, held for six months, slower tapering until 2019 22 Dec 3.2mg

2020 Sertraline 19 Jan 3.1mg, 26 Jan 3.0mg; 1 Mar 2.9, 7 Mar 2.8, May (some drops here) 24 May 2.5, May 29 2.4, June 21 2.3, June 28 2.2mg,  July 4 2.1mg, July 24 (or maybe a bit before) 2mg, early Nov switched to home made suspension; 29 Nov 1.8mg; approx 25 Dec 1.6mg)

2021 Some time in about Jan/Feb realised my dosing was off and as probably on more like 1.8mg and possible mixing error in making suspension; doses after 10 Feb accurate; 10 Feb 1.6mg; 7 Mar 1.4

 

My thread here at SA: https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/1775-bubbles/page/17/

CurrentSertraline: 7 Mar 1.4mg / Armour Thyroid / endless allergy meds, erg

 

 

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  • 4 months later...

Hello @brassmonkey

 

I wonder if you can help me work out at what point my more aggressive taper can start and finish? I've re-read but I can't weigh a tablet so not sure how to calculate. (I can't get a jeweller's scale.) What is the best way to determine this without weighing a tablet?

 

I started on 100mg of sertraline. I am currently making a 1ml:1mg liquid suspension using Ora Plus. I have a 1ml syringe which has 1/100 graduations on it so I can do a fairly fine taper for a while yet (and could make a weaker suspension so I could get finer graduations still) but obviously don't want to elongate the process unnecessarily. I'm at 1.8mg of sertraline.

 

Cheers!

Bubbles

2005 St John's Wort / 2006-2012 Lexapro 20mg, 2 failed attempts to stop, tapered over 4.5 months in early 2012

January 2013 started Sertraline, over time worked up to 100mg

July 2014 Sertraline dropped from 100mg to 75mg, held for six months, slower tapering until 2019 22 Dec 3.2mg

2020 Sertraline 19 Jan 3.1mg, 26 Jan 3.0mg; 1 Mar 2.9, 7 Mar 2.8, May (some drops here) 24 May 2.5, May 29 2.4, June 21 2.3, June 28 2.2mg,  July 4 2.1mg, July 24 (or maybe a bit before) 2mg, early Nov switched to home made suspension; 29 Nov 1.8mg; approx 25 Dec 1.6mg)

2021 Some time in about Jan/Feb realised my dosing was off and as probably on more like 1.8mg and possible mixing error in making suspension; doses after 10 Feb accurate; 10 Feb 1.6mg; 7 Mar 1.4

 

My thread here at SA: https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/1775-bubbles/page/17/

CurrentSertraline: 7 Mar 1.4mg / Armour Thyroid / endless allergy meds, erg

 

 

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Hi Bubbles-- I gave a fairly detailed answer over on your intro thread, that way all the information will be in one place where we can keep track of it.

 

Please note that the information in the current article above is out of date and is being rewritten in a much more understandable and usable fashion. Right now I am awaiting approval of the article so I can get it finalized and published. With any luck it will be coming out soon.

20 years on Paxil starting at 20mg and working up to 40mg. Sept 2011 started 10% every 6 weeks taper (2.5% every week for 4 weeks then hold for 2 additional weeks), currently at 7.9mg. Oct 2011 CTed 15oz vodka a night, to only drinking 2 beers most nights, totally sober Feb 2013.

Since I wrote this I have continued to decrease my dose by 10% every 6 weeks (2.5% every week for 4 weeks and then hold for an additional 2 weeks). I added in an extra 6 week hold when I hit 10mg to let things settle out even more. When I hit 3mgpw it became hard to split the drop into 4 parts so I switched to dropping 1mgpw (pill weight) every week for 3 weeks and then holding for another 3 weeks.  The 3 + 3 schedule turned out to be too harsh so I cut back to dropping 1mgpw every 4 weeks which is working better.

Current dose 0.000mg 04-15-2017

 

"It's also important not to become angry, no matter how difficult life is, because you can loose all hope if you can't laugh at yourself and at life in general."  Stephen Hawking

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15 hours ago, brassmonkey said:

Hi Bubbles-- I gave a fairly detailed answer over on your intro thread


Thank you brassmonkey. Much appreciated.

2005 St John's Wort / 2006-2012 Lexapro 20mg, 2 failed attempts to stop, tapered over 4.5 months in early 2012

January 2013 started Sertraline, over time worked up to 100mg

July 2014 Sertraline dropped from 100mg to 75mg, held for six months, slower tapering until 2019 22 Dec 3.2mg

2020 Sertraline 19 Jan 3.1mg, 26 Jan 3.0mg; 1 Mar 2.9, 7 Mar 2.8, May (some drops here) 24 May 2.5, May 29 2.4, June 21 2.3, June 28 2.2mg,  July 4 2.1mg, July 24 (or maybe a bit before) 2mg, early Nov switched to home made suspension; 29 Nov 1.8mg; approx 25 Dec 1.6mg)

2021 Some time in about Jan/Feb realised my dosing was off and as probably on more like 1.8mg and possible mixing error in making suspension; doses after 10 Feb accurate; 10 Feb 1.6mg; 7 Mar 1.4

 

My thread here at SA: https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/1775-bubbles/page/17/

CurrentSertraline: 7 Mar 1.4mg / Armour Thyroid / endless allergy meds, erg

 

 

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  • 2 months later...
On 12/12/2020 at 2:39 PM, brassmonkey said:

Please note that the information in the current article above is out of date and is being rewritten in a much more understandable and usable fashion. Right now I am awaiting approval of the article so I can get it finalized and published. With any luck it will be coming out soon.

I'm currently at 0.22mg liquid sertraline and wondering if at this point I could begin to do the more aggressive end-game taper.  I'm really not noticing any big changes after a taper.  Most WD symptoms are mild to moderate fluctuations from day to day. 

2007 - 2008          Paxil and Klonopin

2008 - 2012           Mirtazapine following abrupt withdrawal from Klonopin/Paxil.  

2012                       Unsuccessful taper of mirtazapine; reinstated.     

7/2013 - 1/2014   Successfully tapered from 7.5 mg

 

7/19/17 ALPRAZOLAM 0.25 mg. - current  

                SERTRALINE  - 25 mg

Began taper Aug 4, 2017 - 25 mg;  Jan 1, 2018 - 12.5 mg;  Jan 16, 2019 - 2.6 mg;  Jan 5, 2020 - 1.0 mg;  Jan 3, 2021 - 0.27 Current dose:   Mar 10 - 0.165 mg;

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brassmonkey

The Endgame Taper actually shouldn't be more aggressive. It can seem that way because of the limitations of the dry cutting method and the physical ability of the scales to weigh the tiny doses. Rather it should be more dictated by the bodies response to each reduction. We are aiming for as few as possible symptoms with each reduction and letting them full resolve before the next reduction. So it is a balancing act of making a reduction, waiting for it to stabilize and adjusting the dose changes as the body dictates. It could mean longer holds, smaller reductions or small updoses. What ever is required to maintain stability but still progress.

 

Your are well into the Endgame Zone, the point at which you can start the Endgame Taper. For your situation that would start at 0.6mgai.

 

There are some experts that make a case for making the jump to "0" at 1mgai. My personal experience has shown that this is much too high for many people. By doing so they go on to have many months of very unpredictable and, in some cases, severe WD symptoms. I find it better to reduce as far as is practical before making the jump. It is a Theoretical Exit Point that is variable depending on the medication. I have calculated a general point to be 0.000625 X the original prescribed dose. That would be 25 X 0.000625 = 0.015mgai according to your signature.

 

Keep in mind that all these numbers are for reference only. The deciding factor is how your body is reacting.

20 years on Paxil starting at 20mg and working up to 40mg. Sept 2011 started 10% every 6 weeks taper (2.5% every week for 4 weeks then hold for 2 additional weeks), currently at 7.9mg. Oct 2011 CTed 15oz vodka a night, to only drinking 2 beers most nights, totally sober Feb 2013.

Since I wrote this I have continued to decrease my dose by 10% every 6 weeks (2.5% every week for 4 weeks and then hold for an additional 2 weeks). I added in an extra 6 week hold when I hit 10mg to let things settle out even more. When I hit 3mgpw it became hard to split the drop into 4 parts so I switched to dropping 1mgpw (pill weight) every week for 3 weeks and then holding for another 3 weeks.  The 3 + 3 schedule turned out to be too harsh so I cut back to dropping 1mgpw every 4 weeks which is working better.

Current dose 0.000mg 04-15-2017

 

"It's also important not to become angry, no matter how difficult life is, because you can loose all hope if you can't laugh at yourself and at life in general."  Stephen Hawking

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