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Ollie, Ollie Oxen Free, Managing The Endgame Taper

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Gridley
Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, bubbles said:

It is getting a little trickier to taper at 10% as I'm currently restricted to 0.1mg increments.

I'm around 2% also.  I'm using the scale and am limited to 1mgpw (mg pill weight) decrements, which with my brand of Lexapro works out to 0.1mgai (active ingredient) decrements.  When I dropped from 4mgpw to 3mgpw the drop was 25%, and when I go from 3mg to 2mg it will be 33% and from 2 to 1 will be 50%. I'm holding longer now, 6 weeks instead of 4.

Edited by Gridley

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Miyan
On 4/23/2020 at 12:50 AM, brassmonkey said:

If a person is stable and not experiencing extreme symptoms by the time they get to 1mgai it is time to switch to a more aggressive taper. That would consist of reductions of 25%, 33%, 50% and 100%.  Holding at each dose for around six weeks. This will give doses of 0.75mgai, 0.5mgai 0.25mgai and finally the jump to "0". Using a hold period of six weeks that will give a total taper time of 18 weeks or three and a half months

@brassmonkey Rather going for 25% 33% 50% 100%. May we go by 4% every week for 25%.

Then may we go another reduction 33% by every two week as 10 or 11% andso.

50% by evey week by 8% 

100% by every week by 16%.

Need clarification.

 

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brassmonkey

Miyan-- I am in the process of rewriting this entire article and will be going into a lot more detail there. The numbers and taper schedule in the present article are inaccurate and are going to change.

 

What you are asking would be one way to do it if you are using a liquid. The problem with trying that with a powder is that the divisions are so small and rather inaccurate that it would be more bother than it's worth.

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Greenriver

Oh my God, I hope I'm reading this correctly.

 

I'm currently at 2.4mg of Fluoxetine. Do you mean when I reach 1mg, I can start dropping by 25% and potentially be off the stuff in two years? I assumed you had to be very careful with the drops below 1mg, due to how steep the serotonin occupancy curve is at the lower doses.

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brassmonkey

The actual start point for the Endgame Taper is different for each different drug. But yes, once you get to a very low dose it may be possible to speed things up a bit depending on how your are feeling at the time. Symptom load and your reaction to reductions are quite important in determining things.

 

Please note that this article is in the process of being rewritten to improve it's accuracy. The new article is forthcoming and will contain more detailed information.  For right now this article is more for reference only.

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Greenriver

Brilliant. One of the most depressing things about tapering is the length of time it takes. I thought I had another 4-5 years left. Honestly, I was debating whether to just admit defeat and stay on the stuff for life. This changes everything 

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bubbles
On 7/7/2020 at 6:04 AM, Greenriver said:

Brilliant. One of the most depressing things about tapering is the length of time it takes. I thought I had another 4-5 years left. Honestly, I was debating whether to just admit defeat and stay on the stuff for life. This changes everything 

 

it does, doesn't it. I'm at 2.1mg, or 2.1% of my original dose. It would be amazing if I could be off sooner than I'd anticipated, but then I'm also content to leave the last titch for much longer, if it makes the chances of longer term success more likely. Getting off isn't useful if it is followed by needing to go on again etc.

 

Has the thinking changed on those last few percent of the taper? I'd thought that really the end was the part where we needed to go extra slowly.

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Greenriver
14 hours ago, bubbles said:

 

it does, doesn't it. I'm at 2.1mg, or 2.1% of my original dose. It would be amazing if I could be off sooner than I'd anticipated, but then I'm also content to leave the last titch for much longer, if it makes the chances of longer term success more likely. Getting off isn't useful if it is followed by needing to go on again etc.

 

Has the thinking changed on those last few percent of the taper? I'd thought that really the end was the part where we needed to go extra slowly.

I hope it’s true. I don’t quite understand it myself. Perhaps at 1mg the drug has less of a hold on you, so to speak, and you can drop quicker. If not, I might just switch to low-dose Citalopram and be done with tapering for a while. Life is too short. Prozac gives me unpleasant blood pumping stimulation, even at low doses. If I can get off it in two years or less though, I’ll stick it out. Perhaps once I reach 1mg the stimulation will lessen

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ChessieCat

I've personally decided not to risk it.  It will be 5 years at the end of this October since I started tapering off 100mg Pristiq.  It's also cost me a lot of money for compounded capsules, although I was very fortunate that my pharmacist was charging me the lowest he could and never increased the price over the whole time ($15 per 100 capsules).  One day I will go back over my credit card statements and work out how much it has cost.  Thankfully I haven't had to pay full cost for my regular prescription (subsidised because I receive unemployment benefits) which also meant that I have been able to keep taking the brand, not generic.

 

The way I see it is that I've managed to be patient and get this far with very little issues so if the total takes 6 years so be it.  It could be that I might be able to get off in 6 months, but I don't know if going faster would cause problems.  After such a long time a few more months is not going to make much difference.

 

When I first came to SA I had hoped to be off by my 60th birthday.  I will be nearly 64 when I'm off.  But I'm doing okay withdrawal-wise and that is the main thing. 

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bubbles
10 hours ago, ChessieCat said:

I've personally decided not to risk it.  It will be 5 years at the end of this October since I started tapering off 100mg Pristiq.  It's also cost me a lot of money for compounded capsules, although I was very fortunate that my pharmacist was charging me the lowest he could and never increased the price over the whole time ($15 per 100 capsules).

 

That's an incredible price. I pay much more though I think I've found a good local supplier. Yes, it's expensive!

 

I'm not sure if I'll risk it or not. With capsules it isn't difficult to go down in 0.1mg increments - that's quite a small portion of my highest dose of 100mg. If I make the sertraline suspension I think I can do smaller cuts easily enough. I know, for me, that reinstating a tiny bit of the drug hasn't worked  in the past - when I've reinstated it's been back to square one, so I can't risk that happening. I will await the rewrite of the original post and evaluate then. But ultimately I want to be off, unscathed, and if I have to do that slowly, then so be it.

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Gridley
13 hours ago, Greenriver said:

Perhaps at 1mg the drug has less of a hold on you,

 

I don't know.  I did fine with dropping increasingly larger percentages from 1mgai (active ingredient) down to 0.4mgai over the past several months.  But  I've seen a considerable ramp up of symptoms since I dropped from 0.4mgai to 0.3mgai (a 25% drop). I'm using the scale and because of its limitations, I can reduce no less than 0.1mgai (for my brand of Lexapro that's 1mg pill weight), so I'm going to have to compensate with longer holds.

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Greenriver
On 7/9/2020 at 4:28 PM, Gridley said:

 

I don't know.  I did fine with dropping increasingly larger percentages from 1mgai (active ingredient) down to 0.4mgai over the past several months.  But  I've seen a considerable ramp up of symptoms since I dropped from 0.4mgai to 0.3mgai (a 25% drop). I'm using the scale and because of its limitations, I can reduce no less than 0.1mgai (for my brand of Lexapro that's 1mg pill weight), so I'm going to have to compensate with longer holds.

Can you still feel the drug's effects/side-effects at the dosage you're on? 

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Greenriver

Would you say the withdrawal symptoms are just as bad as when you were dropping down from the higher dosage range?

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Gridley
3 hours ago, Greenriver said:

Can you still feel the drug's effects/side-effects at the dosage you're on? 

I have had withdrawal symptoms (not side effects) to varying degrees for all of the taper down from 20mg.  The large majority of the time these symptoms have been tolerable, what we can WDnormal, not feeling good, not feeling too bad, without big swings in either direction).

 

Regarding your second question, are the symptoms just as bad as when I was dropping from the higher doses: as I said in my first post, right now they're worse but generally they've been about the same throughout the taper, some days better than others but within the same range of WDnormal.

 

Keep in mind that I'm on two other drugs, one of which I tapered too fast before discovering SA and then reinstated, so that might be contributing to my symptoms.

  

Edited by Gridley

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Greenriver

Cheers, that's good to know the withdrawal symptoms are roughly the same at the lower doses. It must be very low receptor occupancy at your dosage. Well done getting that far. Hope your final journey to 0mg isn't too torturous.  I'm hoping the side-effects from Prozac (excessive stimulation and brain fog) will lessen at the lower doses. 2.4mg is still about 47% receptor occupancy. 1mg is about 29%.

 

It is kind of fascinating how monstrous these drugs are. Real witches' brew stuff.  I just found out my Mum's Doctor offered her antidepressants for insomnia. She suffers from mild stress due to money worries and it's affecting her sleep. She told my Mum they're completely non-addictive. Unbelievable. Thankfully she declined.

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