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Nivsch: what do you think about reducing 1mg every week


Nivsch

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Ask your pharmacist if the drug should be taken with food.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

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8 hours ago, Nivsch said:

I start to think there is no future to keep tapering this absurd pill.

 

I will give it one more try next week, if it keep be the same i will try 0.5% (~one bead) every 3 days and if IT also won't be good i will do a switch. 0.5% every 4-5 days will be too slow and I dont want to be in 30mg only in october 2021... there is also a limit to how SLOW I can tolerate (not only to how fast)

 

"there is also a limit to how SLOW I can tolerate"

 

Most of the members of SA can easily say:  'we hear you and we understand'.

 

I'm currently taking 0.75mg Pristiq.  Original dose 100mg.  It seems really stupid to be taking such a tiny dose.  And it's going to take me at least another year before I'm off.  But I'd rather go slowly and get off eventually with as little discomfort as possible.

 

If you need to go slower, go slower.  Even reducing by a small amount is reducing your drug load.

 

Some members find that there are doses that they have difficulty getting past.  Once they get past it they are able to go faster.

 

And I find it better to look at how much I've reduced my drug than to look at how much I still have to go.

 

Do you take your dose at about the same time every day?  Because of the short half life of Cymbalta you might want to split your dose (move part of the dose by 1 hour each day - if your sleep starts being affects move the last dose back 1 hour).  Remember to only make one change at a time.

 

QUESTIONS:  There may be something else which is causing/contributing to your symptoms.

 

Are you taking anything else?  Do you drink caffeine, eg coffee, cola drinks, energy drinks?  Do you consume alcohol?  Do you eat foods containing MSG, eg Chinese food, savoury snacks etc?  Do you drink diet beverages containing artificial flavouring?  Do you smoke?  Are you getting some gentle exercise every day?  Do you overdo exercise?  Are you eating a healthy diet?  Do you eat regularly throughout the day (drops in blood sugar can affect how you feel)?

 

 

NEW!!!     INTERVIEW with Altostrata, SA's founder    NEW!!! 

 

Plodding along inch by inch:  12" = 1',  3' =  36 " or 1 yard,  1760 yards  = 63,360" or 1 mile

Current from 17 Apr 2021:  Pristiq 0.2665mg  now holding each dose for 3 weeks

ADs since ~1992:  25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering Oct 2015 

My tapering program   My Intro (goes to my tapering graph)  My website

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions.

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  • Moderator Emeritus

Q:  Do you take any vitamin B?

NEW!!!     INTERVIEW with Altostrata, SA's founder    NEW!!! 

 

Plodding along inch by inch:  12" = 1',  3' =  36 " or 1 yard,  1760 yards  = 63,360" or 1 mile

Current from 17 Apr 2021:  Pristiq 0.2665mg  now holding each dose for 3 weeks

ADs since ~1992:  25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering Oct 2015 

My tapering program   My Intro (goes to my tapering graph)  My website

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions.

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10 hours ago, ChessieCat said:

Do you take your dose at about the same time every day?  Because of the short half life of Cymbalta you might want to split your dose (move part of the dose by 1 hour each day - if your sleep starts being affects move the last dose back 1 hour).  Remember to only make one change at a time

 

Yes until I started to feel evening is not good and I turned it to the morning (at the beginning of august) but then it got worse and the restlesness spreaded to the whole day so this week I turned it back to the evening ~18:30 and I will stay in it and not change it anynore.

 

10 hours ago, ChessieCat said:

If you need to go slower, go slower.  Even reducing by a small amount is reducing your drug load.

 

Doesnt it better to let a long half-life pill to tell me the phase I can go, and not a crazy pill?

 

10 hours ago, ChessieCat said:

 

Are you taking anything else?  Do you drink caffeine, eg coffee, cola drinks, energy drinks?  Do you consume alcohol?  Do you eat foods containing MSG, eg Chinese food, savoury snacks etc?  Do you drink diet beverages containing artificial flavouring?  Do you smoke?  Are you getting some gentle exercise every day?  Do you overdo exercise?  Are you eating a healthy diet?  Do you eat regularly throughout the day (drops in blood sugar can affect how you feel)?

 

No take something else. I reduce to almost zero the caffeine (just a little dark chocolate). No alcohol. No MSG. No artificials. No smoking. Yes from this week the excercise is regular because of the restlessness from the pill. No overdo I discovered that walking for 1.5 hours but in just moderate phase do better to me than fast walking.

 

Yes mainly 801010 Raw vegan these days and a little cooked because I suspect heavier foods also trigger my symptoms. Next 2 weeks i will know if the symptoms are from the reduction or not. If the reduction will be felt good I will know that the food is the problem. If the reductions even of 0.5% under 801010 diet wont be good I think i will make a switch to another drug.

2010-2015 Cipramil 20-40mg. half-year break in the middle which was tough.

2015-2020 Venlafaxine 150-225 mg. Venlafaxine duloxetine cross taper details 

150 for half-year then 225 for a period than stabilized in ~187.5 (1.25 pills) for 2 years than reduced to ~168.5 (1.125 pills).

3.2020 - Duloxetine 60mg.

19.05.2020 - started to taper - 59! 20.5 - 58.5

June 2020: 57. end of June - 55.5

July-August 2020: 5.7 - 54, 9.7 - 52, 12.7 - updose to 53+, 19.7 - 52.3, 26.7 - 51.8, 4.8 51.3, 11.8 - 50.8, 15.8 - updose to 51.0, 17.8 - 50.5, 19.8 - 50.3, 19.9 - 49.3, 7.10 - 46.8, 1.12 - 45.8, 17.2 - 44.4, 30.12 - 42.4, 21.1 - 40.8.

 

17.02.2021 - 40.1 📌 (current dose)

 

 

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5 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

If the reductions under 801010 diet wont be good I think i will make a switch to another drug.

 

2010-2015 Cipramil 20-40mg. half-year break in the middle which was tough.

2015-2020 Effexor 150-200 mg. 225 for a period than stabilized in ~187.5 (1.25 pills) for 2 years than reduced to ~168.5 (1.125 pills).

3.2020 - Cymbalta 60mg.

 

Q:  Why did you change from Cipramil to Effexor and then to Cymbalta?

NEW!!!     INTERVIEW with Altostrata, SA's founder    NEW!!! 

 

Plodding along inch by inch:  12" = 1',  3' =  36 " or 1 yard,  1760 yards  = 63,360" or 1 mile

Current from 17 Apr 2021:  Pristiq 0.2665mg  now holding each dose for 3 weeks

ADs since ~1992:  25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering Oct 2015 

My tapering program   My Intro (goes to my tapering graph)  My website

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions.

Link to post
  • Moderator Emeritus
1 minute ago, ChessieCat said:

2015-2020 Effexor 150-200 mg

 

Q:  When in 2020 did you stop taking Effexor?

 

Q:  How did you make the change from Effexor to Cymbalta?  Please write dates and doses of each drug.

NEW!!!     INTERVIEW with Altostrata, SA's founder    NEW!!! 

 

Plodding along inch by inch:  12" = 1',  3' =  36 " or 1 yard,  1760 yards  = 63,360" or 1 mile

Current from 17 Apr 2021:  Pristiq 0.2665mg  now holding each dose for 3 weeks

ADs since ~1992:  25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering Oct 2015 

My tapering program   My Intro (goes to my tapering graph)  My website

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions.

Link to post
41 minutes ago, ChessieCat said:

 

2010-2015 Cipramil 20-40mg. half-year break in the middle which was tough.

2015-2020 Effexor 150-200 mg. 225 for a period than stabilized in ~187.5 (1.25 pills) for 2 years than reduced to ~168.5 (1.125 pills).

3.2020 - Cymbalta 60mg.

 

Q:  Why did you change from Cipramil to Effexor and then to Cymbalta?

 

First 2 years (2010,2011) with cipramil were good to very good. After this the effect reduced and reduced with anxiety crawling slowely back I updosed to 2 pills. and in mid 2013 I started to be obssesed (i have ocd after all) about stopping the medications and i tapered very fast so to tapring from 1 pill to zero was only in one month.The half-year without drugs was very tough so i returned to cipramil in 2014.

 

Cipramil to effexor in 2015 because of the anxiety got worse. The effexor reduced the anxiety well but only for the first couple of months. But then 2016 on the effexor was even worse than in the cipramil.

 

Then I started mindfulness every day as the psychiatrists asked me to do, and 2017,8,9 were better but still with couple of tough months every year. And then 2020 came in and all the anxiety-ocd-mood swings was back in the full strengh so I went to the psychiatrist and she gave me cymbalta in March 2020 in cross tapring of a week. Half cymbalta 60 + vanlafaine 150 for a week then only cymbalta 60.

 

After 2 months I asked her to support a very-very-super slow tapering. She refused because "as i know you and the OCD syndrom I will not support this" so i do it without her. What can i do that I today feel worse than before the drugs in 2009? In 2009 at least it was very episodic, but last 4 years and especially 2020 it feels to me much more chronic. In 2009, at least as i was more normal with less ocd. Sure I had ocd. But much less intense. Thats what I FEEL. The doctor will sure say i am not objective but thats what i strongly feels.

 

There is always a phobia in the background (health anxiety / fear of flying) that get me obssesed and feared daily. But also it changed itself often to more forms. But in the last 4 years the sense of phobia in the background got very chronic! And the moods swings are MUCH more fast.

 

Its clear to me that the content of the fears it just a mask and not the real thing which is the anxiety and ocd.

 

So now i AM obssesed with the tapering but do it very slow and listening to my body, do mindfulness and makes my diet better and want to recover from that 10 years on meds that were enough for me.

2010-2015 Cipramil 20-40mg. half-year break in the middle which was tough.

2015-2020 Venlafaxine 150-225 mg. Venlafaxine duloxetine cross taper details 

150 for half-year then 225 for a period than stabilized in ~187.5 (1.25 pills) for 2 years than reduced to ~168.5 (1.125 pills).

3.2020 - Duloxetine 60mg.

19.05.2020 - started to taper - 59! 20.5 - 58.5

June 2020: 57. end of June - 55.5

July-August 2020: 5.7 - 54, 9.7 - 52, 12.7 - updose to 53+, 19.7 - 52.3, 26.7 - 51.8, 4.8 51.3, 11.8 - 50.8, 15.8 - updose to 51.0, 17.8 - 50.5, 19.8 - 50.3, 19.9 - 49.3, 7.10 - 46.8, 1.12 - 45.8, 17.2 - 44.4, 30.12 - 42.4, 21.1 - 40.8.

 

17.02.2021 - 40.1 📌 (current dose)

 

 

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Also I feel I live my life 50% and even less of what i want, have social relationships as like 25%-50% of what i want and generally i feel 25%-50% fulfilled in my life right now. Like there is an invisible cloud between me and my life that doesnt let me really live and "touch" my life and enjoy them. Like a berrier. It must be changed.

Im 32 years old.

 

Last month i feel an improvement in the thoughts, even tough the restlessness is worse still the thoughts are better and overall it feels like a net improvement.

2010-2015 Cipramil 20-40mg. half-year break in the middle which was tough.

2015-2020 Venlafaxine 150-225 mg. Venlafaxine duloxetine cross taper details 

150 for half-year then 225 for a period than stabilized in ~187.5 (1.25 pills) for 2 years than reduced to ~168.5 (1.125 pills).

3.2020 - Duloxetine 60mg.

19.05.2020 - started to taper - 59! 20.5 - 58.5

June 2020: 57. end of June - 55.5

July-August 2020: 5.7 - 54, 9.7 - 52, 12.7 - updose to 53+, 19.7 - 52.3, 26.7 - 51.8, 4.8 51.3, 11.8 - 50.8, 15.8 - updose to 51.0, 17.8 - 50.5, 19.8 - 50.3, 19.9 - 49.3, 7.10 - 46.8, 1.12 - 45.8, 17.2 - 44.4, 30.12 - 42.4, 21.1 - 40.8.

 

17.02.2021 - 40.1 📌 (current dose)

 

 

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  • Administrator

@Nivsch, you switched from Effexor to Cymbalta in March, is that correct? How did you feel after you made this change. Why did you decide to go off Cymbalta in May?

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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4 hours ago, Altostrata said:

@Nivsch, you switched from Effexor to Cymbalta in March, is that correct? How did you feel after you made this change. Why did you decide to go off Cymbalta in May?

Yes. I felt bad again since January and because of that I went in mid March to the psychiatrist and she recommended me to switch to cymbalta. 

After the change to cymbalta I think I felt a little better at least part of the time and only in the first couple of weeks, but during all that time, and even from February before the meeting, I started to think that maybe staying on drugs for 10 years IS part of the problem, and in May I decided i want to start tapering, not specifically because of cymbalta but because the drugs in general and the thought that maybe 10 years of drugs made my mental health worse.

2010-2015 Cipramil 20-40mg. half-year break in the middle which was tough.

2015-2020 Venlafaxine 150-225 mg. Venlafaxine duloxetine cross taper details 

150 for half-year then 225 for a period than stabilized in ~187.5 (1.25 pills) for 2 years than reduced to ~168.5 (1.125 pills).

3.2020 - Duloxetine 60mg.

19.05.2020 - started to taper - 59! 20.5 - 58.5

June 2020: 57. end of June - 55.5

July-August 2020: 5.7 - 54, 9.7 - 52, 12.7 - updose to 53+, 19.7 - 52.3, 26.7 - 51.8, 4.8 51.3, 11.8 - 50.8, 15.8 - updose to 51.0, 17.8 - 50.5, 19.8 - 50.3, 19.9 - 49.3, 7.10 - 46.8, 1.12 - 45.8, 17.2 - 44.4, 30.12 - 42.4, 21.1 - 40.8.

 

17.02.2021 - 40.1 📌 (current dose)

 

 

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  • Administrator
19 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

Yes. I felt bad again since January and because of that I went in mid March to the psychiatrist and she recommended me to switch to cymbalta. 

 

In January, you were taking Effexor, correct? Did you accidentally skip any doses? Did you try to stop Effexor?

 

Did you feel better or worse after you started taking Cymbalta?

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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1 hour ago, Altostrata said:

 

In January, you were taking Effexor, correct? Did you accidentally skip any doses? Did you try to stop Effexor?

 

Did you feel better or worse after you started taking Cymbalta?

 

No I didnt try to stop. During the years of the effexor there were doses I skipped here and there, but only here and there. Not as a routine. Maybe one dose every couple of weeks or every month+. I dont remember something different in January 2020. In january i still took effexor.

 

I had some sort of hypomanic period in october-december 2019 that as it naturally tend to happen with me - made the next period the opposite - anxiety, some crying spells, bad emotions etc at the beginning of 2020.

 

After I started taking cymbalta I think I felt a little better part of the time and only in the first few weeks. After that - similar to vanlafaxine i think. The desire to taper started in february when i still took effexor but i didnt stop at all and didnt do any tapering before May. and in the meeting with the psychiatrist I said i want to be less and less dependent on the drugs as time goes. She accepted to replace part of the cymbalta with 5htp if i want in the future and I just started cymbalta 60mg.

 

The cymbalta for me was aimed only to short term relief. I wanted to taper off my addiction built from 10 years on drugs anyway.

 

During the last few years also I had worse digestion difficulties that Im sure caused but the drugs that slowed the gut movement and made "traffic jams" in my stomach that made the problem worse during the years and i mention that because i think its also caused my mental issues to get worse. 

2010-2015 Cipramil 20-40mg. half-year break in the middle which was tough.

2015-2020 Venlafaxine 150-225 mg. Venlafaxine duloxetine cross taper details 

150 for half-year then 225 for a period than stabilized in ~187.5 (1.25 pills) for 2 years than reduced to ~168.5 (1.125 pills).

3.2020 - Duloxetine 60mg.

19.05.2020 - started to taper - 59! 20.5 - 58.5

June 2020: 57. end of June - 55.5

July-August 2020: 5.7 - 54, 9.7 - 52, 12.7 - updose to 53+, 19.7 - 52.3, 26.7 - 51.8, 4.8 51.3, 11.8 - 50.8, 15.8 - updose to 51.0, 17.8 - 50.5, 19.8 - 50.3, 19.9 - 49.3, 7.10 - 46.8, 1.12 - 45.8, 17.2 - 44.4, 30.12 - 42.4, 21.1 - 40.8.

 

17.02.2021 - 40.1 📌 (current dose)

 

 

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  • Administrator

Is it possible your hypomanic periods were related to skipping doses here and there while you were taking Effexor?

 

It's important you not skip doses of Cymbalta. Please take it at the same time each day.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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10 hours ago, Altostrata said:

Is it possible your hypomanic periods were related to skipping doses here and there while you were taking Effexor?

Maybe. I dont know.

 

10 hours ago, Altostrata said:

 

It's important you not skip doses of Cymbalta. Please take it at the same time each day

 

Actually when on cymbalta I never skipped any dose at all.

Just the changes in the schedule last 2 weeks that are over.

There was a change between evening and night in april for 1-2 weeks.

May-June were 100% consistent - every day at 20:00.

July the same just in 18:30 most of the time.

Still had ups and downs in my mood which lasted (each cycle) days/1-2 weeks in every one of this months. Before the tapering and during it.

2010-2015 Cipramil 20-40mg. half-year break in the middle which was tough.

2015-2020 Venlafaxine 150-225 mg. Venlafaxine duloxetine cross taper details 

150 for half-year then 225 for a period than stabilized in ~187.5 (1.25 pills) for 2 years than reduced to ~168.5 (1.125 pills).

3.2020 - Duloxetine 60mg.

19.05.2020 - started to taper - 59! 20.5 - 58.5

June 2020: 57. end of June - 55.5

July-August 2020: 5.7 - 54, 9.7 - 52, 12.7 - updose to 53+, 19.7 - 52.3, 26.7 - 51.8, 4.8 51.3, 11.8 - 50.8, 15.8 - updose to 51.0, 17.8 - 50.5, 19.8 - 50.3, 19.9 - 49.3, 7.10 - 46.8, 1.12 - 45.8, 17.2 - 44.4, 30.12 - 42.4, 21.1 - 40.8.

 

17.02.2021 - 40.1 📌 (current dose)

 

 

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On 8/15/2020 at 3:39 PM, Nivsch said:

After I started taking cymbalta I think I felt a little better part of the time and only in the first few weeks. After that - similar to vanlafaxine i think.

 

Please explain what this means. What do you mean by "similar to venlafaxine"?

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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8 hours ago, Altostrata said:

 

Please explain what this means. What do you mean by "similar to venlafaxine"?

 

When I started cymbalta it improved a bit mainly in the 2nd week and also in 3rd week i think but the essense remain the same. During all that first months on cymbalta the "toughts pressure" was high and I was obssessed only about one thing - the change in diet i will do and the waiting until 4-6 weeks will pass and ill know cymbalta didnt help and then i will do the diet (because i felt i must know the diet helped and not the pill) and etc... the content is less important just the fact that the ocd was still remaining on the same intensity. There were also couple of evenings with crying during these months on cymbalta. I mean that the instability in emotions + the ocd - all that things were on venlafaxine (2016 - mid march 2020) and continued to be also during the months on cymbalta (mid march 2020 - today).

 

First half-year (2015) on venlafaxine was ok to good. After that - not good and even worse then the cipramil. I wrote a detailed message as a response to ChessiCat's question about all the years. Here:

 

 

2010-2015 Cipramil 20-40mg. half-year break in the middle which was tough.

2015-2020 Venlafaxine 150-225 mg. Venlafaxine duloxetine cross taper details 

150 for half-year then 225 for a period than stabilized in ~187.5 (1.25 pills) for 2 years than reduced to ~168.5 (1.125 pills).

3.2020 - Duloxetine 60mg.

19.05.2020 - started to taper - 59! 20.5 - 58.5

June 2020: 57. end of June - 55.5

July-August 2020: 5.7 - 54, 9.7 - 52, 12.7 - updose to 53+, 19.7 - 52.3, 26.7 - 51.8, 4.8 51.3, 11.8 - 50.8, 15.8 - updose to 51.0, 17.8 - 50.5, 19.8 - 50.3, 19.9 - 49.3, 7.10 - 46.8, 1.12 - 45.8, 17.2 - 44.4, 30.12 - 42.4, 21.1 - 40.8.

 

17.02.2021 - 40.1 📌 (current dose)

 

 

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During 2015-2020 - sometimes i bought "viepax" (the name of effexor here in Israel) and sometimes its generic - "venlafaxine".

 

During march 2020 - today - I buy always the generic of cymbalta "duloxetine".

2010-2015 Cipramil 20-40mg. half-year break in the middle which was tough.

2015-2020 Venlafaxine 150-225 mg. Venlafaxine duloxetine cross taper details 

150 for half-year then 225 for a period than stabilized in ~187.5 (1.25 pills) for 2 years than reduced to ~168.5 (1.125 pills).

3.2020 - Duloxetine 60mg.

19.05.2020 - started to taper - 59! 20.5 - 58.5

June 2020: 57. end of June - 55.5

July-August 2020: 5.7 - 54, 9.7 - 52, 12.7 - updose to 53+, 19.7 - 52.3, 26.7 - 51.8, 4.8 51.3, 11.8 - 50.8, 15.8 - updose to 51.0, 17.8 - 50.5, 19.8 - 50.3, 19.9 - 49.3, 7.10 - 46.8, 1.12 - 45.8, 17.2 - 44.4, 30.12 - 42.4, 21.1 - 40.8.

 

17.02.2021 - 40.1 📌 (current dose)

 

 

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I know I gave a long answer relative to your question haha but I didnt know exactly what you didn't understand so I told the whole story.

2010-2015 Cipramil 20-40mg. half-year break in the middle which was tough.

2015-2020 Venlafaxine 150-225 mg. Venlafaxine duloxetine cross taper details 

150 for half-year then 225 for a period than stabilized in ~187.5 (1.25 pills) for 2 years than reduced to ~168.5 (1.125 pills).

3.2020 - Duloxetine 60mg.

19.05.2020 - started to taper - 59! 20.5 - 58.5

June 2020: 57. end of June - 55.5

July-August 2020: 5.7 - 54, 9.7 - 52, 12.7 - updose to 53+, 19.7 - 52.3, 26.7 - 51.8, 4.8 51.3, 11.8 - 50.8, 15.8 - updose to 51.0, 17.8 - 50.5, 19.8 - 50.3, 19.9 - 49.3, 7.10 - 46.8, 1.12 - 45.8, 17.2 - 44.4, 30.12 - 42.4, 21.1 - 40.8.

 

17.02.2021 - 40.1 📌 (current dose)

 

 

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May I switch back to viepax and stay for a while before swtiching to prozac?

 

I afraid the switching from cymbalta to prozac will cause noradrenaline strong withdrawal.

 

I suspect i cant tolerate cymbalta reductions I feel worse this week even after two 0.5% reductions. Emotionally less stable and worse thoughts.

 

I need 1-2 more weeks to be sure.

2010-2015 Cipramil 20-40mg. half-year break in the middle which was tough.

2015-2020 Venlafaxine 150-225 mg. Venlafaxine duloxetine cross taper details 

150 for half-year then 225 for a period than stabilized in ~187.5 (1.25 pills) for 2 years than reduced to ~168.5 (1.125 pills).

3.2020 - Duloxetine 60mg.

19.05.2020 - started to taper - 59! 20.5 - 58.5

June 2020: 57. end of June - 55.5

July-August 2020: 5.7 - 54, 9.7 - 52, 12.7 - updose to 53+, 19.7 - 52.3, 26.7 - 51.8, 4.8 51.3, 11.8 - 50.8, 15.8 - updose to 51.0, 17.8 - 50.5, 19.8 - 50.3, 19.9 - 49.3, 7.10 - 46.8, 1.12 - 45.8, 17.2 - 44.4, 30.12 - 42.4, 21.1 - 40.8.

 

17.02.2021 - 40.1 📌 (current dose)

 

 

Link to post
  • Moderator Emeritus

Because your brand name drugs are different from the names used in many other countries, when posting about your drugs please ALWAYS use the drug names, ie venlafaxine instead of Viepax, .

 

This will be less confusing for us.  It will also save time and cause less frustration for the mods because we have to keep looking to see what the drug the brand name is that you are talking about.

 

Thank you.

NEW!!!     INTERVIEW with Altostrata, SA's founder    NEW!!! 

 

Plodding along inch by inch:  12" = 1',  3' =  36 " or 1 yard,  1760 yards  = 63,360" or 1 mile

Current from 17 Apr 2021:  Pristiq 0.2665mg  now holding each dose for 3 weeks

ADs since ~1992:  25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering Oct 2015 

My tapering program   My Intro (goes to my tapering graph)  My website

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions.

Link to post
26 minutes ago, ChessieCat said:

Because your brand name drugs are different from the names used in many other countries, when posting about your drugs please ALWAYS use the drug names, ie venlafaxine instead of Viepax, .

 

This will be less confusing for us.  It will also save time and cause less frustration for the mods because we have to keep looking to see what the drug the brand name is that you are talking about.

 

Thank you.

Ok i didnt know this caused confusion No prob👍

2010-2015 Cipramil 20-40mg. half-year break in the middle which was tough.

2015-2020 Venlafaxine 150-225 mg. Venlafaxine duloxetine cross taper details 

150 for half-year then 225 for a period than stabilized in ~187.5 (1.25 pills) for 2 years than reduced to ~168.5 (1.125 pills).

3.2020 - Duloxetine 60mg.

19.05.2020 - started to taper - 59! 20.5 - 58.5

June 2020: 57. end of June - 55.5

July-August 2020: 5.7 - 54, 9.7 - 52, 12.7 - updose to 53+, 19.7 - 52.3, 26.7 - 51.8, 4.8 51.3, 11.8 - 50.8, 15.8 - updose to 51.0, 17.8 - 50.5, 19.8 - 50.3, 19.9 - 49.3, 7.10 - 46.8, 1.12 - 45.8, 17.2 - 44.4, 30.12 - 42.4, 21.1 - 40.8.

 

17.02.2021 - 40.1 📌 (current dose)

 

 

Link to post
  • Administrator

We've given you our best guess about what you might do. A switch from duloxetine to venlafaxine might cause you problems. Venlafaxine is also difficult to taper.

 

It looks like you change your dosage every week. We advise against frequent drug changes. You might hold at one level for a month, let your nervous system settle down.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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1 hour ago, Altostrata said:

We've given you our best guess about what you might do. A switch from duloxetine to venlafaxine might cause you problems. Venlafaxine is also difficult to taper.

 

It looks like you change your dosage every week. We advise against frequent drug changes. You might hold at one level for a month, let your nervous system settle down.

 

1. Do you mean that for example, 1% per 8 days is better than 0.5% per 4 days because it gives more time to rest even if its the same phase in both cases?

 

2.  A question about absorption:

Can the amount of the duloxetine i take, be absorbed in my body a little different everytime, especially if I have gut issues and difficulties to empty the gut (because maybe mocous or other stuff that started within the years on the drugs)?

 

There are ~235 beads in my current dose, and it seems to me, intuitively, that changes between the days of about 1 to couple of beads in average in the absorption ability are likely to happen. Maybe im wrong but thats what i think.

 

3. Can the fact that i am tapering the generic  duloxetine (and not the original - cymbalta) might make problems and inconsistency in the active ingredient in my body?

 

 

 

2010-2015 Cipramil 20-40mg. half-year break in the middle which was tough.

2015-2020 Venlafaxine 150-225 mg. Venlafaxine duloxetine cross taper details 

150 for half-year then 225 for a period than stabilized in ~187.5 (1.25 pills) for 2 years than reduced to ~168.5 (1.125 pills).

3.2020 - Duloxetine 60mg.

19.05.2020 - started to taper - 59! 20.5 - 58.5

June 2020: 57. end of June - 55.5

July-August 2020: 5.7 - 54, 9.7 - 52, 12.7 - updose to 53+, 19.7 - 52.3, 26.7 - 51.8, 4.8 51.3, 11.8 - 50.8, 15.8 - updose to 51.0, 17.8 - 50.5, 19.8 - 50.3, 19.9 - 49.3, 7.10 - 46.8, 1.12 - 45.8, 17.2 - 44.4, 30.12 - 42.4, 21.1 - 40.8.

 

17.02.2021 - 40.1 📌 (current dose)

 

 

Link to post
2 hours ago, Altostrata said:

We've given you our best guess about what you might do. A switch from duloxetine to venlafaxine might cause you problems. Venlafaxine is also difficult to taper.

Even if in march I moved from venlafaxine to duloxetine wothout problems? There were no problems.

 

The thing is: I am SCARED to stay on duloxetine because my brain will adapt too much to the noradrenaline that switching to prozac in the future will be maybe problematic if i will decide to.

 

Thats why i want to go back to venlafaxine to cause a GENTLE reduction of noradrenaline (because venlafaxine is still noradregenic but obviousely less) and from there switch to prozac (maybe) in the future if i wont be able to taper slowely. I have been on venlafaxine for 5 years very long time so my system probably remember it well and will adjust well because of this, i think.

 

And now im only 5 months on duloxetine so maybe its time to act NOW to stop the noradrenaline addiction before it will be more difficult in the future.

 

And as i see duloxetine is really activating me physically (as i wrote in our discussion above) so maybe its by itself part of the anxiety and difficulty to taper and what i see is not only the withdrawal but withdrawal mixed with anxiety from noradrenaline.

2010-2015 Cipramil 20-40mg. half-year break in the middle which was tough.

2015-2020 Venlafaxine 150-225 mg. Venlafaxine duloxetine cross taper details 

150 for half-year then 225 for a period than stabilized in ~187.5 (1.25 pills) for 2 years than reduced to ~168.5 (1.125 pills).

3.2020 - Duloxetine 60mg.

19.05.2020 - started to taper - 59! 20.5 - 58.5

June 2020: 57. end of June - 55.5

July-August 2020: 5.7 - 54, 9.7 - 52, 12.7 - updose to 53+, 19.7 - 52.3, 26.7 - 51.8, 4.8 51.3, 11.8 - 50.8, 15.8 - updose to 51.0, 17.8 - 50.5, 19.8 - 50.3, 19.9 - 49.3, 7.10 - 46.8, 1.12 - 45.8, 17.2 - 44.4, 30.12 - 42.4, 21.1 - 40.8.

 

17.02.2021 - 40.1 📌 (current dose)

 

 

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  • Administrator

Changing your dosage every few days will definitely cause the amount of duloxetine in your bloodstream to fluctuate.

 

Not sure why you're here and asking us questions. I've given you my best guess. I'm not going to argue with you about switching back and forth from venlafaxine. 

 

Please make your own decisions.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

Link to post
4 hours ago, Altostrata said:

Not sure why you're here and asking us questions.

 

Maybe I am sensitive but this answer is dissapointing and a bit hurt. I dont want to argue at all. I appreciate deeply this place and your answers to me and take it seriousely and precisely because of that I answered in long answers in the disccusion above, repeated and wrote in more detailes to show the full spectrum of my concerns, but i didnt get explanation about venlafaxine. Only "its not good". How may I feel after that? More sedated or more confused?

Thats why i explained more.

Dont want to clash with anybody only the contrary thats why your last answer hurted me. If it seems argumentative its because of my stress its not as it seen to you.

2010-2015 Cipramil 20-40mg. half-year break in the middle which was tough.

2015-2020 Venlafaxine 150-225 mg. Venlafaxine duloxetine cross taper details 

150 for half-year then 225 for a period than stabilized in ~187.5 (1.25 pills) for 2 years than reduced to ~168.5 (1.125 pills).

3.2020 - Duloxetine 60mg.

19.05.2020 - started to taper - 59! 20.5 - 58.5

June 2020: 57. end of June - 55.5

July-August 2020: 5.7 - 54, 9.7 - 52, 12.7 - updose to 53+, 19.7 - 52.3, 26.7 - 51.8, 4.8 51.3, 11.8 - 50.8, 15.8 - updose to 51.0, 17.8 - 50.5, 19.8 - 50.3, 19.9 - 49.3, 7.10 - 46.8, 1.12 - 45.8, 17.2 - 44.4, 30.12 - 42.4, 21.1 - 40.8.

 

17.02.2021 - 40.1 📌 (current dose)

 

 

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  • Moderator Emeritus
9 hours ago, Nivsch said:

Even if in march I moved from venlafaxine to duloxetine wothout problems? There were no problems.

 

Just because you were able to do this a few months ago does not mean that you would be able to change back to venlafaxine from duloxetine without any issues.

 

9 hours ago, Nivsch said:

The thing is: I am SCARED to stay on duloxetine because my brain will adapt too much

 

You have been on duloxetine since March this year.  That's about 5 months.  It generally only takes about 1 month or a little bit longer for the brain to adapt to a drug.

NEW!!!     INTERVIEW with Altostrata, SA's founder    NEW!!! 

 

Plodding along inch by inch:  12" = 1',  3' =  36 " or 1 yard,  1760 yards  = 63,360" or 1 mile

Current from 17 Apr 2021:  Pristiq 0.2665mg  now holding each dose for 3 weeks

ADs since ~1992:  25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering Oct 2015 

My tapering program   My Intro (goes to my tapering graph)  My website

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions.

Link to post
11 hours ago, ChessieCat said:

You have been on duloxetine since March this year.  That's about 5 months.  It generally only takes about 1 month or a little bit longer for the brain to adapt to a drug.

 Oh ok now i understand.

 

I will try taper the crazy drug not more frequent than every week to let my body calm as I understand from altostrata answer and from my experience last week. If 1% every time will be ok so its ok. If only 0.5% will be ok so I will end the taper in 2035 (really. Thats what the excel says).

 

So its either 1% every week (or more % with more time hold) with cymbalta, or it will be prozac. 

2010-2015 Cipramil 20-40mg. half-year break in the middle which was tough.

2015-2020 Venlafaxine 150-225 mg. Venlafaxine duloxetine cross taper details 

150 for half-year then 225 for a period than stabilized in ~187.5 (1.25 pills) for 2 years than reduced to ~168.5 (1.125 pills).

3.2020 - Duloxetine 60mg.

19.05.2020 - started to taper - 59! 20.5 - 58.5

June 2020: 57. end of June - 55.5

July-August 2020: 5.7 - 54, 9.7 - 52, 12.7 - updose to 53+, 19.7 - 52.3, 26.7 - 51.8, 4.8 51.3, 11.8 - 50.8, 15.8 - updose to 51.0, 17.8 - 50.5, 19.8 - 50.3, 19.9 - 49.3, 7.10 - 46.8, 1.12 - 45.8, 17.2 - 44.4, 30.12 - 42.4, 21.1 - 40.8.

 

17.02.2021 - 40.1 📌 (current dose)

 

 

Link to post
  • Administrator

I don't know what effect venlafaxine might have on you. It probably will be different from what you felt before. The act of switching the drugs may cause you to feel a lot worse. We advise making as few changes as possible -- advice you have declined to follow since you joined this site.

 

You probably are already physiologically dependent on duloxetine. AGAIN, see Tips for tapering off duloxetine (Cymbalta)

 

AGAIN, we advise waiting a month between changes, not a week. This is to see the effect of the change you've already made. Since you've been taking Cymbalta so irregularly, it's likely you're going to have more difficulty in reducing it.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

Link to post
49 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

It probably will be different from what you felt before. The act of switching the drugs may cause you to feel a lot worse.

 

Ok so I won't switch to venlafaxine.

 

49 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

You probably are already physiologically dependent on duloxetine. AGAIN, see Tips for tapering off duloxetine (Cymbalta)

 

Yes I have read it many times this month. Really a dilemma.

 

49 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

Since you've been taking Cymbalta so irregularly, it's likely you're going to have more difficulty in reducing it.

 

You mean that because I changed the dose frequently and not equally - the following changes will be harder?

From now to months to come, or only in the short term?

2010-2015 Cipramil 20-40mg. half-year break in the middle which was tough.

2015-2020 Venlafaxine 150-225 mg. Venlafaxine duloxetine cross taper details 

150 for half-year then 225 for a period than stabilized in ~187.5 (1.25 pills) for 2 years than reduced to ~168.5 (1.125 pills).

3.2020 - Duloxetine 60mg.

19.05.2020 - started to taper - 59! 20.5 - 58.5

June 2020: 57. end of June - 55.5

July-August 2020: 5.7 - 54, 9.7 - 52, 12.7 - updose to 53+, 19.7 - 52.3, 26.7 - 51.8, 4.8 51.3, 11.8 - 50.8, 15.8 - updose to 51.0, 17.8 - 50.5, 19.8 - 50.3, 19.9 - 49.3, 7.10 - 46.8, 1.12 - 45.8, 17.2 - 44.4, 30.12 - 42.4, 21.1 - 40.8.

 

17.02.2021 - 40.1 📌 (current dose)

 

 

Link to post
  • Moderator Emeritus
10 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

You mean that because I changed the dose frequently and not equally - the following changes will be harder?

From now to months to come, or only in the short term?

 

If you do a long hold now and let things stabilise, you could then make a small reduction as a test to see how your respond.  If it goes okay, then you could do a larger reduction.

 

Q:  How did you taper venlafaxine and what was the last dose that you took?  If you can provide approximate dates and doses that would really helpful please.

 

I'm asking about this because it will depend on how quickly you tapered and what the last dose was how long you might need to hold before you started tapering duloxetine again.  You might still be experiencing withdrawal symptoms from going off venlafaxine.  Because you went from venlafaxine to duloxetine it is difficult to know what symptoms are withdrawal from venlafaxine and what are side effects from duloxetine.  And then once you started tapering you introduced another variable, ie withdrawal symptoms.

 

It is better to hold for longer now and get stabilised.

NEW!!!     INTERVIEW with Altostrata, SA's founder    NEW!!! 

 

Plodding along inch by inch:  12" = 1',  3' =  36 " or 1 yard,  1760 yards  = 63,360" or 1 mile

Current from 17 Apr 2021:  Pristiq 0.2665mg  now holding each dose for 3 weeks

ADs since ~1992:  25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering Oct 2015 

My tapering program   My Intro (goes to my tapering graph)  My website

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions.

Link to post
31 minutes ago, ChessieCat said:

 

Q:  How did you taper venlafaxine and what was the last dose that you took?  If you can provide approximate dates and doses that would really helpful please.

 

Venlafaxine:

1. April 2015 - january 2016: 150mg

 

2. End of january - march/apr/may/jun (dont remember) 2016: 225mg

 

3. Summer 2016: reduced directly to 187.5mg (1.25 pill relaying on my eyes only).

 

4. Stayed for 2 years on 187.5mg during them, for some months, I did one day 225 and the other day 150 (to get average of 187.5) when i bought the capsules. The psych said its ok.

 

5. December 2018 - reduced directly to 168.5 and stayed until march 2020 (1.125 pill very not accurate because i was relaying on my eyes again).

 

6. Mid March 2020 - cross taper between venlafaxine and duloxetine - 150mg venlafaxine + half capsule of 60mg duloxetine for 7 days, then droped the venlafaxine.

 

7. Mid march - mid may 2020 - 60mg duloxetine every day.

 

8. Mid may 2020 - started taper duloxetine.

 

2010-2015 Cipramil 20-40mg. half-year break in the middle which was tough.

2015-2020 Venlafaxine 150-225 mg. Venlafaxine duloxetine cross taper details 

150 for half-year then 225 for a period than stabilized in ~187.5 (1.25 pills) for 2 years than reduced to ~168.5 (1.125 pills).

3.2020 - Duloxetine 60mg.

19.05.2020 - started to taper - 59! 20.5 - 58.5

June 2020: 57. end of June - 55.5

July-August 2020: 5.7 - 54, 9.7 - 52, 12.7 - updose to 53+, 19.7 - 52.3, 26.7 - 51.8, 4.8 51.3, 11.8 - 50.8, 15.8 - updose to 51.0, 17.8 - 50.5, 19.8 - 50.3, 19.9 - 49.3, 7.10 - 46.8, 1.12 - 45.8, 17.2 - 44.4, 30.12 - 42.4, 21.1 - 40.8.

 

17.02.2021 - 40.1 📌 (current dose)

 

 

Link to post
  • Moderator Emeritus

Please copy and paste the link below and put it in your drug signature like shown below.  This will make it easier to find this information if we need it.  Thank you.

 

2015-2020 Venlafaxine 150-225 mg.  venlafaxine duloxetine cross taper details

 

Edited by ChessieCat

NEW!!!     INTERVIEW with Altostrata, SA's founder    NEW!!! 

 

Plodding along inch by inch:  12" = 1',  3' =  36 " or 1 yard,  1760 yards  = 63,360" or 1 mile

Current from 17 Apr 2021:  Pristiq 0.2665mg  now holding each dose for 3 weeks

ADs since ~1992:  25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering Oct 2015 

My tapering program   My Intro (goes to my tapering graph)  My website

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions.

Link to post
42 minutes ago, ChessieCat said:

Please copy and paste the link below and put it in your drug signature like shown below.  This will make it easier to find this information if we need it.  Thank you.

 

2015-2020 Venlafaxine 150-225 mg.  venlafaxine duloxetine cross taper details

 

👍

2010-2015 Cipramil 20-40mg. half-year break in the middle which was tough.

2015-2020 Venlafaxine 150-225 mg. Venlafaxine duloxetine cross taper details 

150 for half-year then 225 for a period than stabilized in ~187.5 (1.25 pills) for 2 years than reduced to ~168.5 (1.125 pills).

3.2020 - Duloxetine 60mg.

19.05.2020 - started to taper - 59! 20.5 - 58.5

June 2020: 57. end of June - 55.5

July-August 2020: 5.7 - 54, 9.7 - 52, 12.7 - updose to 53+, 19.7 - 52.3, 26.7 - 51.8, 4.8 51.3, 11.8 - 50.8, 15.8 - updose to 51.0, 17.8 - 50.5, 19.8 - 50.3, 19.9 - 49.3, 7.10 - 46.8, 1.12 - 45.8, 17.2 - 44.4, 30.12 - 42.4, 21.1 - 40.8.

 

17.02.2021 - 40.1 📌 (current dose)

 

 

Link to post
  • Moderator Emeritus

I've just found this on drugs.com under the Professional tab for both of the drugs.

Metabolism

Duloxetine

Hepatic, via CYP1A2 and CYP2D6; forms multiple metabolites (inactive)

 

 

Venlafaxine

 

Hepatic via CYP2D6 to active metabolite, O-desmethylvenlafaxine (ODV); other metabolites include N-desmethylvenlafaxine and N,O-didesmethylvenlafaxine

 

Edited by ChessieCat

NEW!!!     INTERVIEW with Altostrata, SA's founder    NEW!!! 

 

Plodding along inch by inch:  12" = 1',  3' =  36 " or 1 yard,  1760 yards  = 63,360" or 1 mile

Current from 17 Apr 2021:  Pristiq 0.2665mg  now holding each dose for 3 weeks

ADs since ~1992:  25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering Oct 2015 

My tapering program   My Intro (goes to my tapering graph)  My website

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions.

Link to post
  • Moderator Emeritus
5 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

👍

 

I've just checked it and it works.  Thank you.

NEW!!!     INTERVIEW with Altostrata, SA's founder    NEW!!! 

 

Plodding along inch by inch:  12" = 1',  3' =  36 " or 1 yard,  1760 yards  = 63,360" or 1 mile

Current from 17 Apr 2021:  Pristiq 0.2665mg  now holding each dose for 3 weeks

ADs since ~1992:  25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering Oct 2015 

My tapering program   My Intro (goes to my tapering graph)  My website

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions.

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