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Svie: olanzapine - ever greatful for any advice


Svie

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  • Moderator Emeritus
53 minutes ago, Svie said:

My doctor insist that cutting these may cause a different effect in the body because of the coating and that the coating makes the absorption more even and steady throughout the day.

 

 From Post #1 of this topic:

 

On 2/8/2013 at 2:00 PM, Altostrata said:

Zyprexa tablets can be safely split, according to http://ps.psychiatryonline.org/article.aspx?articleID=84368

 

 

* NO LONGER ACTIVE on SA *

MISSION ACCOMPLISHED:  (6 year taper)      0mg Pristiq  on 13th November 2021

ADs since ~1992:  25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering from Oct 2015 - 13 Nov 2021   LAST DOSE 0.0025mg

Post 0 updates start here    My tapering program     My Intro (goes to tapering graph)

 VIDEO:   Antidepressant Withdrawal Syndrome and its Management

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2 hours ago, ChessieCat said:

 

 From Post #1 of this topic:

 

 

 

Thanks, so there shouldn´t be a difference between taking a whole tablet and a whole tablet split in two, for example?

Medicine: Olanzapine 2017-06: 10mg

2017-08 @10mg. Taper 25% every 3 weeks .2017-11:  2.5mg (1 tablet) Staying put. Completely stabilized.

2018-09:  2.5mg 2018-09 Taper 25% every 2 weeks

2018-11 0.625 milligrams. PA´s started so held on for 3 months. 2019-02 Taper 33% every 3 weeks.

2019-04 Too much tapering. Back to 0.625 milligrams

2019- 06 Taper slower this time: 10% every 2 weeks

2019-09 0.15625 milligrams 

2020-03: Too much taper. Back to 0.625 milligrams 2020: 04 Too destabilized, back to 0.83 milligrams

2021-03 Too destabilized still, back to 1100 milligrams 2021-07 Holding

2022-11-03 Full dose reinstated at 2.5mg. Holding

Supplements: Mag/cal/zink citrate. Omega 3. Vit D 5000 ui/day

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  • Moderator Emeritus
7 minutes ago, Svie said:

Thanks, so there shouldn´t be a difference between taking a whole tablet and a whole tablet split in two, for example?

 

You might notice a little bit of a difference as your body adjusts to getting the drug in a different way.  But generally this will resolve over a short period of time.

 

If you are currently taking 1 whole tablet and needing to cut it to make a reduction, then it would be better to cut 1 whole tablet and take that all of the cut tablet for a little while before making a reduction.  Only one change at a time.  This can be gentler on your system as well as not confusing the issue with 2 variables.  The time on the 1 whole cut tablet will depend on how you feel.  You would not make the reduction until you feel stable.

* NO LONGER ACTIVE on SA *

MISSION ACCOMPLISHED:  (6 year taper)      0mg Pristiq  on 13th November 2021

ADs since ~1992:  25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering from Oct 2015 - 13 Nov 2021   LAST DOSE 0.0025mg

Post 0 updates start here    My tapering program     My Intro (goes to tapering graph)

 VIDEO:   Antidepressant Withdrawal Syndrome and its Management

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14 minutes ago, ChessieCat said:

 

You might notice a little bit of a difference as your body adjusts to getting the drug in a different way.  But generally this will resolve over a short period of time.

 

If you are currently taking 1 whole tablet and needing to cut it to make a reduction, then it would be better to cut 1 whole tablet and take that all of the cut tablet for a little while before making a reduction.  Only one change at a time.  This can be gentler on your system as well as not confusing the issue with 2 variables.  The time on the 1 whole cut tablet will depend on how you feel.  You would not make the reduction until you feel stable.

Thanks that´s reassuring, but if its the other way around, currently i´m increasing my dose because of personal reasons. (ill start decreasing at a later point), i´m almost taking whole tablet at 2.5mg, and this question arised since ive been deciding whether i should directly go to a whole tablet or keep splitting the whole until the body gets used to the dose and after that, take the whole without splitting and get used to that, one thing at a time. Does that make sense? 

Medicine: Olanzapine 2017-06: 10mg

2017-08 @10mg. Taper 25% every 3 weeks .2017-11:  2.5mg (1 tablet) Staying put. Completely stabilized.

2018-09:  2.5mg 2018-09 Taper 25% every 2 weeks

2018-11 0.625 milligrams. PA´s started so held on for 3 months. 2019-02 Taper 33% every 3 weeks.

2019-04 Too much tapering. Back to 0.625 milligrams

2019- 06 Taper slower this time: 10% every 2 weeks

2019-09 0.15625 milligrams 

2020-03: Too much taper. Back to 0.625 milligrams 2020: 04 Too destabilized, back to 0.83 milligrams

2021-03 Too destabilized still, back to 1100 milligrams 2021-07 Holding

2022-11-03 Full dose reinstated at 2.5mg. Holding

Supplements: Mag/cal/zink citrate. Omega 3. Vit D 5000 ui/day

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  • Moderator Emeritus
22 minutes ago, Svie said:

Does that make sense? 

 

I'm moving the last part of this discussion to your Introduction topic; I will leave the original question here so others can respond.

 

Your original question was about cutting a tablet, so I was assuming that you were taking a full tablet.

 

Q:  Are you planning to start taking a full tablet?

* NO LONGER ACTIVE on SA *

MISSION ACCOMPLISHED:  (6 year taper)      0mg Pristiq  on 13th November 2021

ADs since ~1992:  25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering from Oct 2015 - 13 Nov 2021   LAST DOSE 0.0025mg

Post 0 updates start here    My tapering program     My Intro (goes to tapering graph)

 VIDEO:   Antidepressant Withdrawal Syndrome and its Management

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  • Moderator Emeritus

Q:  And what are you concerned about?

* NO LONGER ACTIVE on SA *

MISSION ACCOMPLISHED:  (6 year taper)      0mg Pristiq  on 13th November 2021

ADs since ~1992:  25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering from Oct 2015 - 13 Nov 2021   LAST DOSE 0.0025mg

Post 0 updates start here    My tapering program     My Intro (goes to tapering graph)

 VIDEO:   Antidepressant Withdrawal Syndrome and its Management

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13 minutes ago, ChessieCat said:

 

 

 

Q:  Are you planning to start taking a full tablet?

Yes, for the moment i need a full dosage. Maybe in a year or so ill start cutting again. My concern is that now that im used to getting splitted tablets i´d get a different effect by taking a whole so im not sure the safest way to taking the full tablet, either going directly to it or taking whole in that are splitted in two.

A few weeks ago i did take a whole tablet without splitting and got a bad reaction, im concerned since i dont want a bad reaction.

Thanks for reading 

Medicine: Olanzapine 2017-06: 10mg

2017-08 @10mg. Taper 25% every 3 weeks .2017-11:  2.5mg (1 tablet) Staying put. Completely stabilized.

2018-09:  2.5mg 2018-09 Taper 25% every 2 weeks

2018-11 0.625 milligrams. PA´s started so held on for 3 months. 2019-02 Taper 33% every 3 weeks.

2019-04 Too much tapering. Back to 0.625 milligrams

2019- 06 Taper slower this time: 10% every 2 weeks

2019-09 0.15625 milligrams 

2020-03: Too much taper. Back to 0.625 milligrams 2020: 04 Too destabilized, back to 0.83 milligrams

2021-03 Too destabilized still, back to 1100 milligrams 2021-07 Holding

2022-11-03 Full dose reinstated at 2.5mg. Holding

Supplements: Mag/cal/zink citrate. Omega 3. Vit D 5000 ui/day

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  • 3 months later...

Hello again. A few months later. I want to start taper again soon. Down from 2.5mg. I do not want to do it with a scale but rather by liquid. Does it work to make a liquid dose by dissolve the medicine in water?

 

Ive been reading both things. that ora-plus is needed, and that it is not needed, however i can not get it here in europe. Are there any alternatives if water-only isn´t recommended?

 

I know @brassmonkey

Said earlier in this thread that ora-plus is needed. But are there any alternatives?

 

Thanks

 

Edit. DSMO?

Medicine: Olanzapine 2017-06: 10mg

2017-08 @10mg. Taper 25% every 3 weeks .2017-11:  2.5mg (1 tablet) Staying put. Completely stabilized.

2018-09:  2.5mg 2018-09 Taper 25% every 2 weeks

2018-11 0.625 milligrams. PA´s started so held on for 3 months. 2019-02 Taper 33% every 3 weeks.

2019-04 Too much tapering. Back to 0.625 milligrams

2019- 06 Taper slower this time: 10% every 2 weeks

2019-09 0.15625 milligrams 

2020-03: Too much taper. Back to 0.625 milligrams 2020: 04 Too destabilized, back to 0.83 milligrams

2021-03 Too destabilized still, back to 1100 milligrams 2021-07 Holding

2022-11-03 Full dose reinstated at 2.5mg. Holding

Supplements: Mag/cal/zink citrate. Omega 3. Vit D 5000 ui/day

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  • Moderator

Here is a part of an article I wrote on working with benzos. Although you are not working with a benzo the principles are still the same.

 

Suspension Media

Because it is so thin, water is not always the best media for making a suspension. Even though it is quite fine in texture the powder made by crushing the tablets is still heavier than water and can settle out quite quickly. A better way is to use a thicker base material.

There are several commercially made “Suspension Medias” available online or through your pharmacist. Ora-plus and Ora-sweet are two of the most common, but a quick online search will bring up other alternatives. There are some ways to make your own which can work quite well also.

Believe or of not there are some people who have trouble drinking water because it is too “wet”. There is a product available at many drug stores or chemists referred to as “thick water”. It is thick enough to hold the powder in suspension quite well.

Making a homemade suspension media can work well too. A common one is to use maple syrup; you could also use corn syrup or other cooking syrups. There are quite a few recipes available online using a variety of materials. All these media would be used in the same manner as water following the directions given in other parts of this article.

Using fruit juice is also popular as a suspension media. Some juices are much thicker than water and suspend the powder quite will. They also taste much better. Because they contain fruit pulp it is hard to see if the powder is well mixed in. As warned above DO NOT USE GRAPEFRUIT JUICE, it reacts badly with many Benzos and can create a liquid that is dangerous to drink.

It can seem that making a liquid from benzodiazepine tablets borders on getting a degree on chemistry. But by following the process step by step it is pretty straight forward, and these techniques are being used by many people to facilitate their tapers. 

20 years on Paxil starting at 20mg and working up to 40mg. Sept 2011 started 10% every 6 weeks taper (2.5% every week for 4 weeks then hold for 2 additional weeks), currently at 7.9mg. Oct 2011 CTed 15oz vodka a night, to only drinking 2 beers most nights, totally sober Feb 2013.

Since I wrote this I have continued to decrease my dose by 10% every 6 weeks (2.5% every week for 4 weeks and then hold for an additional 2 weeks). I added in an extra 6 week hold when I hit 10mg to let things settle out even more. When I hit 3mgpw it became hard to split the drop into 4 parts so I switched to dropping 1mgpw (pill weight) every week for 3 weeks and then holding for another 3 weeks.  The 3 + 3 schedule turned out to be too harsh so I cut back to dropping 1mgpw every 4 weeks which is working better.

Final Dose 0.016mg.     Current dose 0.000mg 04-15-2017

 

"It's also important not to become angry, no matter how difficult life is, because you can loose all hope if you can't laugh at yourself and at life in general."  Stephen Hawking

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11 hours ago, brassmonkey said:

Here is a part of an article I wrote on working with benzos. Although you are not working with a benzo the principles are still the same.

 

Suspension Media

Because it is so thin, water is not always the best media for making a suspension. Even though it is quite fine in texture the powder made by crushing the tablets is still heavier than water and can settle out quite quickly. A better way is to use a thicker base material.

There are several commercially made “Suspension Medias” available online or through your pharmacist. Ora-plus and Ora-sweet are two of the most common, but a quick online search will bring up other alternatives. There are some ways to make your own which can work quite well also.

Believe or of not there are some people who have trouble drinking water because it is too “wet”. There is a product available at many drug stores or chemists referred to as “thick water”. It is thick enough to hold the powder in suspension quite well.

Making a homemade suspension media can work well too. A common one is to use maple syrup; you could also use corn syrup or other cooking syrups. There are quite a few recipes available online using a variety of materials. All these media would be used in the same manner as water following the directions given in other parts of this article.

Using fruit juice is also popular as a suspension media. Some juices are much thicker than water and suspend the powder quite will. They also taste much better. Because they contain fruit pulp it is hard to see if the powder is well mixed in. As warned above DO NOT USE GRAPEFRUIT JUICE, it reacts badly with many Benzos and can create a liquid that is dangerous to drink.

It can seem that making a liquid from benzodiazepine tablets borders on getting a degree on chemistry. But by following the process step by step it is pretty straight forward, and these techniques are being used by many people to facilitate their tapers. 

Thanks @brassmonkeyI have read your reply many times and done some research by my own. The only pre-made solution that can ship to Sweden is something called "Humco Compounding Cherry Syrup Vehicle" irs however very expensive with the shipping to overseas. And I can´t seem to find any recipes for maple syrup or other syrup. The easiest route would be fruit juice. But is it good enough? Better than water-only? Can I make my own fruit juice, with 100% fruit only? Would Carrot juice work? 

 

The reason I went up to 2.5mg again was because I had uneven doses and got inconsistent results. Would mixing it with fruit juice, for example, make it consistent (unlike water-only)? I just can´t having go through bad results again and updose because of it. I´ve been wanting for 2 years now to switch to liquid dosages, but I can´t seem to find any good solution, it feels like leaving alot to chance (because i do not know enough, so i appreciate any reassurance here) without any popular solution available like a ora-product

 

The pill itself does dissolve in water, but the particles are uneven on the bottom. Not sure if it all is just the filler.

I found Ora-sweet from germany but says it will take up to 2 months to get here, and thats too long. Ive also talked to the pharmacy, twice, and they do not know if any suspension like Ora-plus and such

 

Thanks

Medicine: Olanzapine 2017-06: 10mg

2017-08 @10mg. Taper 25% every 3 weeks .2017-11:  2.5mg (1 tablet) Staying put. Completely stabilized.

2018-09:  2.5mg 2018-09 Taper 25% every 2 weeks

2018-11 0.625 milligrams. PA´s started so held on for 3 months. 2019-02 Taper 33% every 3 weeks.

2019-04 Too much tapering. Back to 0.625 milligrams

2019- 06 Taper slower this time: 10% every 2 weeks

2019-09 0.15625 milligrams 

2020-03: Too much taper. Back to 0.625 milligrams 2020: 04 Too destabilized, back to 0.83 milligrams

2021-03 Too destabilized still, back to 1100 milligrams 2021-07 Holding

2022-11-03 Full dose reinstated at 2.5mg. Holding

Supplements: Mag/cal/zink citrate. Omega 3. Vit D 5000 ui/day

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  • Moderator

You need to find a liquid that is thicker than water. Apple juice is too thin, apricot would work quite well. You could even use milk, but it will spoil quite fast.

 

The pill dissolving is not a good indicator. We are looking for the chemical reaction where the active ingredient moves out of the filler and into solution with the liquid. Unfortunately, that doesn't happen with this medication. So, we need to grind the pill into a fine powder and mix it with a liquid that will hold it up and not let it settle to the bottom. Water will work, but you have to mix things really well before measuring your dose. Also, this medication degrades quickly when in contact with water, so it can't be stored for the next day. Using a fruit juice will allow you to keep the suspension for a couple of days.

20 years on Paxil starting at 20mg and working up to 40mg. Sept 2011 started 10% every 6 weeks taper (2.5% every week for 4 weeks then hold for 2 additional weeks), currently at 7.9mg. Oct 2011 CTed 15oz vodka a night, to only drinking 2 beers most nights, totally sober Feb 2013.

Since I wrote this I have continued to decrease my dose by 10% every 6 weeks (2.5% every week for 4 weeks and then hold for an additional 2 weeks). I added in an extra 6 week hold when I hit 10mg to let things settle out even more. When I hit 3mgpw it became hard to split the drop into 4 parts so I switched to dropping 1mgpw (pill weight) every week for 3 weeks and then holding for another 3 weeks.  The 3 + 3 schedule turned out to be too harsh so I cut back to dropping 1mgpw every 4 weeks which is working better.

Final Dose 0.016mg.     Current dose 0.000mg 04-15-2017

 

"It's also important not to become angry, no matter how difficult life is, because you can loose all hope if you can't laugh at yourself and at life in general."  Stephen Hawking

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Thanks @brassmonkey

 

So if I understand right the pill needs to be crushed, aswell, even with a juice or milk? It does dissolve in water, after about 20 minutes, but how even the spread is i do not know. Would milk work just as good as a juice of apricot? Would (if you google) "Humco Cherry Pharmacy Compounding Syrup" be any better than the other alternatives?

 

So If i understand the process correct, i´d need to crush the pill into fine powder, then mix it with (for example 20ml milk) with a liquid and stir for a while, wait 5 seconds then measure out the correct ml with a syringe?

13 hours ago, brassmonkey said:

Water will work, but you have to mix things really well before measuring your dose. 

 

But you said water-only will not work?

 

Sorry for lots of questions, i apprecite the answers a lot

Medicine: Olanzapine 2017-06: 10mg

2017-08 @10mg. Taper 25% every 3 weeks .2017-11:  2.5mg (1 tablet) Staying put. Completely stabilized.

2018-09:  2.5mg 2018-09 Taper 25% every 2 weeks

2018-11 0.625 milligrams. PA´s started so held on for 3 months. 2019-02 Taper 33% every 3 weeks.

2019-04 Too much tapering. Back to 0.625 milligrams

2019- 06 Taper slower this time: 10% every 2 weeks

2019-09 0.15625 milligrams 

2020-03: Too much taper. Back to 0.625 milligrams 2020: 04 Too destabilized, back to 0.83 milligrams

2021-03 Too destabilized still, back to 1100 milligrams 2021-07 Holding

2022-11-03 Full dose reinstated at 2.5mg. Holding

Supplements: Mag/cal/zink citrate. Omega 3. Vit D 5000 ui/day

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  • Moderator

Yes, the Humco Cherry Pharmacy Compounding Syrup will work nicely. It is designed for this purpose.

 

Yes, you need to crush the pill into a fine powder, mix it very well with the liquid and then measure out your dose.

 

There are two main problems with using water: it is very thin so it is hard to keep the particles of medication suspended in it while measuring your dose, and this medication reacts badly with water making is so you can't store the liquid for more than a few hours.

20 years on Paxil starting at 20mg and working up to 40mg. Sept 2011 started 10% every 6 weeks taper (2.5% every week for 4 weeks then hold for 2 additional weeks), currently at 7.9mg. Oct 2011 CTed 15oz vodka a night, to only drinking 2 beers most nights, totally sober Feb 2013.

Since I wrote this I have continued to decrease my dose by 10% every 6 weeks (2.5% every week for 4 weeks and then hold for an additional 2 weeks). I added in an extra 6 week hold when I hit 10mg to let things settle out even more. When I hit 3mgpw it became hard to split the drop into 4 parts so I switched to dropping 1mgpw (pill weight) every week for 3 weeks and then holding for another 3 weeks.  The 3 + 3 schedule turned out to be too harsh so I cut back to dropping 1mgpw every 4 weeks which is working better.

Final Dose 0.016mg.     Current dose 0.000mg 04-15-2017

 

"It's also important not to become angry, no matter how difficult life is, because you can loose all hope if you can't laugh at yourself and at life in general."  Stephen Hawking

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18 hours ago, brassmonkey said:

There are two main problems with using water: it is very thin so it is hard to keep the particles of medication suspended in it while measuring your dose, and this medication reacts badly with water making is so you can't store the liquid for more than a few hours.

I understand.

 

Will the Humco Syrup be better than apricot/milk? I mean, more reliable? It would take about 30 days to get it shipped though, but worth it if the results would be for the better

 

Does it matter if the apricot is bought from the store or home-made (100% fruit)?

 

Lastly, from what i understand, any standard commercial pill crusher have a hard time making a pill into fine powder. Is it very necessary in the process that it is fine powder?

 

Thank you @brassmonkey for your time

Medicine: Olanzapine 2017-06: 10mg

2017-08 @10mg. Taper 25% every 3 weeks .2017-11:  2.5mg (1 tablet) Staying put. Completely stabilized.

2018-09:  2.5mg 2018-09 Taper 25% every 2 weeks

2018-11 0.625 milligrams. PA´s started so held on for 3 months. 2019-02 Taper 33% every 3 weeks.

2019-04 Too much tapering. Back to 0.625 milligrams

2019- 06 Taper slower this time: 10% every 2 weeks

2019-09 0.15625 milligrams 

2020-03: Too much taper. Back to 0.625 milligrams 2020: 04 Too destabilized, back to 0.83 milligrams

2021-03 Too destabilized still, back to 1100 milligrams 2021-07 Holding

2022-11-03 Full dose reinstated at 2.5mg. Holding

Supplements: Mag/cal/zink citrate. Omega 3. Vit D 5000 ui/day

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  • Moderator

The Humco syrup will more than likely be transparent so it will be easier to see if the powder is well mixed in.

 

Store bought fruit juice is fine. Look for the thicker types, often called nectar.

 

The two spoons method of crushing pills is very effective and a lot less expensive than buying a crusher. Put the pill between the bowls of the two spoons and crush and grind. I sometimes will put the partially ground pill on a small plate and continue on with one of the spoons until I get the powder I want.

20 years on Paxil starting at 20mg and working up to 40mg. Sept 2011 started 10% every 6 weeks taper (2.5% every week for 4 weeks then hold for 2 additional weeks), currently at 7.9mg. Oct 2011 CTed 15oz vodka a night, to only drinking 2 beers most nights, totally sober Feb 2013.

Since I wrote this I have continued to decrease my dose by 10% every 6 weeks (2.5% every week for 4 weeks and then hold for an additional 2 weeks). I added in an extra 6 week hold when I hit 10mg to let things settle out even more. When I hit 3mgpw it became hard to split the drop into 4 parts so I switched to dropping 1mgpw (pill weight) every week for 3 weeks and then holding for another 3 weeks.  The 3 + 3 schedule turned out to be too harsh so I cut back to dropping 1mgpw every 4 weeks which is working better.

Final Dose 0.016mg.     Current dose 0.000mg 04-15-2017

 

"It's also important not to become angry, no matter how difficult life is, because you can loose all hope if you can't laugh at yourself and at life in general."  Stephen Hawking

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13 hours ago, brassmonkey said:

The Humco syrup will more than likely be transparent so it will be easier to see if the powder is well mixed in.

 

Store bought fruit juice is fine. Look for the thicker types, often called nectar.

 

 

I understand. However if I crush really well, and stir really well, fruit juice or milk would be just as good, as i understand from what you are saying. 

 

I can't find apricotjuice in the local store. Which other fruit would work? I´d guess home-made juice, without water added, would be the thickest. the simplest way would be just milk, as i have it at home at all times. But is that just as good? 

 

Thanks again @brassmonkey I think after these questions i´m all set. You can´t google these things, so your information really is invaluable

 

edit, also, an active ingredient in the medicine is soy lecithin, as a binder. I do not know if this makes it any better

Medicine: Olanzapine 2017-06: 10mg

2017-08 @10mg. Taper 25% every 3 weeks .2017-11:  2.5mg (1 tablet) Staying put. Completely stabilized.

2018-09:  2.5mg 2018-09 Taper 25% every 2 weeks

2018-11 0.625 milligrams. PA´s started so held on for 3 months. 2019-02 Taper 33% every 3 weeks.

2019-04 Too much tapering. Back to 0.625 milligrams

2019- 06 Taper slower this time: 10% every 2 weeks

2019-09 0.15625 milligrams 

2020-03: Too much taper. Back to 0.625 milligrams 2020: 04 Too destabilized, back to 0.83 milligrams

2021-03 Too destabilized still, back to 1100 milligrams 2021-07 Holding

2022-11-03 Full dose reinstated at 2.5mg. Holding

Supplements: Mag/cal/zink citrate. Omega 3. Vit D 5000 ui/day

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  • Moderator

Pretty much any fruit juice will work. Thin ones like cranberry won't work as well and grapefruit is to be avoided.

 

It is looking like milk is going to be the most workable, so I would try that.

 

The soy lecithin, the binder, absorbs the active ingredient during manufacture. The active ingredient will stay with the soy because the AI will not dissolve into water. Because the partials of soy are heavier that water they want to settle to the bottom. This is what causes the problem with measuring the dose. If we use a liquid that is thicker than water, then the particles stay suspended in the liquid, making it easier to measure the dose. The milk should be thick enough to do this.

 

Best of luck with your taper and let us know how it goes.

20 years on Paxil starting at 20mg and working up to 40mg. Sept 2011 started 10% every 6 weeks taper (2.5% every week for 4 weeks then hold for 2 additional weeks), currently at 7.9mg. Oct 2011 CTed 15oz vodka a night, to only drinking 2 beers most nights, totally sober Feb 2013.

Since I wrote this I have continued to decrease my dose by 10% every 6 weeks (2.5% every week for 4 weeks and then hold for an additional 2 weeks). I added in an extra 6 week hold when I hit 10mg to let things settle out even more. When I hit 3mgpw it became hard to split the drop into 4 parts so I switched to dropping 1mgpw (pill weight) every week for 3 weeks and then holding for another 3 weeks.  The 3 + 3 schedule turned out to be too harsh so I cut back to dropping 1mgpw every 4 weeks which is working better.

Final Dose 0.016mg.     Current dose 0.000mg 04-15-2017

 

"It's also important not to become angry, no matter how difficult life is, because you can loose all hope if you can't laugh at yourself and at life in general."  Stephen Hawking

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 1/30/2023 at 9:35 PM, brassmonkey said:

 

Best of luck with your taper and let us know how it goes.

Will do. Thanks @brassmonkey

 

I have not started yet. I thought of waiting a bit because i have some adverse reactions since i went up in dose. But its been more than 3 months now since. But as I have very unwanted side effects from the medicine i think these are worse than the adverse reactions, so i´m thinking i might as well start. I hope thats a good idea, i dont see myself 100% stable again unless im off the medicine completely.

 

But, some things are unclear yet. So i have a few more questions about the taper. Is crushing the pill really necessary? I found it hard to do it with spoons, as the powder of the pill sticks to the surface of the spoons and its really hard to get off completely all. And then from the spoon down into the measuring container. I can see some white powder still sticks on the spoon, as when you drag your finger on a dusty surface. Any tips for that? The uploaded picture underneath shows a crushed pill, is it crushed enough?

 

I did another test, with 1 container with a crushed pill in it (in water only), and one with placing a whole pill in it and let dissolve. I can´t see any difference in the soluion. Thats why i ask if crushing makes a difference. I can upload a image of the test if its needed

 

Also, with both crushing and non crushing, there´s pretty much filler on the bottom when the solution is all drained in the sink. But this is just with water, and the point with using milk is that there shouldnt be any filler on the bottom, correct?

 

When measuring out the correct dose, using 20ml liquid in a measuring container, does it matter if i use a 5ml syringe and draw out and ingest the dose directly in the mouth using the syringe or is it better to draw out and throw away as much as needed and then ingest what´s left in the measuring container?  

 

Thanks a lot for your time in beforehand

 

Edit. Uploaded on imgur, first one is a crushed pill 

https://imgur.com/b7H5m7Z

second one is a whole pill dissolved

 

https://imgur.com/PTMSyPC

 

image.png

Medicine: Olanzapine 2017-06: 10mg

2017-08 @10mg. Taper 25% every 3 weeks .2017-11:  2.5mg (1 tablet) Staying put. Completely stabilized.

2018-09:  2.5mg 2018-09 Taper 25% every 2 weeks

2018-11 0.625 milligrams. PA´s started so held on for 3 months. 2019-02 Taper 33% every 3 weeks.

2019-04 Too much tapering. Back to 0.625 milligrams

2019- 06 Taper slower this time: 10% every 2 weeks

2019-09 0.15625 milligrams 

2020-03: Too much taper. Back to 0.625 milligrams 2020: 04 Too destabilized, back to 0.83 milligrams

2021-03 Too destabilized still, back to 1100 milligrams 2021-07 Holding

2022-11-03 Full dose reinstated at 2.5mg. Holding

Supplements: Mag/cal/zink citrate. Omega 3. Vit D 5000 ui/day

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  • Moderator

The reason for crushing the tablet is to get small enough particles that they will easily stay suspended in the liquid and not settle to the bottom. If the tablet is fully disintegrating in the liquid, that would be okay too. The thing is that the active ingredient stays in the filler and does not transfer to the liquid, so when the filler settles to the bottom the active ingredient goes with it. Which is why we want things to be ground a fine as possible and the liquid to be thicker than water.

 

Having small traces of powder left on the spoon is going to happen. Try to minimize them as much as possible. The trace amounts will have so little active ingredient that they are unimportant.

 

You can either remove the excess liquid, discard it and drink the rest or measure out what you need, take it and dispose of the leftovers. Both ways are fine, just be sure to do it the same way each time. Consistency is very important in tapering.

20 years on Paxil starting at 20mg and working up to 40mg. Sept 2011 started 10% every 6 weeks taper (2.5% every week for 4 weeks then hold for 2 additional weeks), currently at 7.9mg. Oct 2011 CTed 15oz vodka a night, to only drinking 2 beers most nights, totally sober Feb 2013.

Since I wrote this I have continued to decrease my dose by 10% every 6 weeks (2.5% every week for 4 weeks and then hold for an additional 2 weeks). I added in an extra 6 week hold when I hit 10mg to let things settle out even more. When I hit 3mgpw it became hard to split the drop into 4 parts so I switched to dropping 1mgpw (pill weight) every week for 3 weeks and then holding for another 3 weeks.  The 3 + 3 schedule turned out to be too harsh so I cut back to dropping 1mgpw every 4 weeks which is working better.

Final Dose 0.016mg.     Current dose 0.000mg 04-15-2017

 

"It's also important not to become angry, no matter how difficult life is, because you can loose all hope if you can't laugh at yourself and at life in general."  Stephen Hawking

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17 hours ago, brassmonkey said:

The reason for crushing the tablet is to get small enough particles that they will easily stay suspended in the liquid and not settle to the bottom. If the tablet is fully disintegrating in the liquid, that would be okay too. The thing is that the active ingredient stays in the filler and does not transfer to the liquid, so when the filler settles to the bottom the active ingredient goes with it. Which is why we want things to be ground a fine as possible and the liquid to be thicker than water.

 

Having small traces of powder left on the spoon is going to happen. Try to minimize them as much as possible. The trace amounts will have so little active ingredient that they are unimportant.

 

You can either remove the excess liquid, discard it and drink the rest or measure out what you need, take it and dispose of the leftovers. Both ways are fine, just be sure to do it the same way each time. Consistency is very important in tapering.

Thanks. I´m learning a lot. 

I´m still a bit tense about the process. But I guess i need to become comfortable with it. I did a test with milk- one with a whole tablet placed in the container, and one with a crushed tablet. I wanted to see at the bottom after the liquid had been drained, to see if there was any difference. I did notice a difference with using water compared to milk, there was a lot of fillers at the bottom with water, as you´ve told me, but not so with milk. But i didn´t really see any different result at the bottom by either crushing or letting a whole tablet dissolve. 

 

Image of the whole tablet dissolved: https://imgur.com/94Kme3s

 

Image of a crushed tablet: https://imgur.com/azjfgZ5

 

I guess i wouldn´t mind crushing each time. all though i´d be more comfortable to not. Would either way be fine, you think?

 

After this question i think i´m set to go, thanks @brassmonkey (not sure if i need to tag each time so you get notificated)

 

 

 

Medicine: Olanzapine 2017-06: 10mg

2017-08 @10mg. Taper 25% every 3 weeks .2017-11:  2.5mg (1 tablet) Staying put. Completely stabilized.

2018-09:  2.5mg 2018-09 Taper 25% every 2 weeks

2018-11 0.625 milligrams. PA´s started so held on for 3 months. 2019-02 Taper 33% every 3 weeks.

2019-04 Too much tapering. Back to 0.625 milligrams

2019- 06 Taper slower this time: 10% every 2 weeks

2019-09 0.15625 milligrams 

2020-03: Too much taper. Back to 0.625 milligrams 2020: 04 Too destabilized, back to 0.83 milligrams

2021-03 Too destabilized still, back to 1100 milligrams 2021-07 Holding

2022-11-03 Full dose reinstated at 2.5mg. Holding

Supplements: Mag/cal/zink citrate. Omega 3. Vit D 5000 ui/day

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  • Moderator

If you are not noticing a difference between the two, crushed or not crushed, then whichever method you are comfortable with would be fine. Just be sure to keep using the same method once you get started.

 

All the moderators scan the new posts every day, so if someone has a question it will get seen and answered. Unless you have something very specific, please don't tag me. Almost any question has come up before and most likely has a dedicated topic dealing with it. The site search function is a wonderful tool.

 

Best of luck when you start your taper.

20 years on Paxil starting at 20mg and working up to 40mg. Sept 2011 started 10% every 6 weeks taper (2.5% every week for 4 weeks then hold for 2 additional weeks), currently at 7.9mg. Oct 2011 CTed 15oz vodka a night, to only drinking 2 beers most nights, totally sober Feb 2013.

Since I wrote this I have continued to decrease my dose by 10% every 6 weeks (2.5% every week for 4 weeks and then hold for an additional 2 weeks). I added in an extra 6 week hold when I hit 10mg to let things settle out even more. When I hit 3mgpw it became hard to split the drop into 4 parts so I switched to dropping 1mgpw (pill weight) every week for 3 weeks and then holding for another 3 weeks.  The 3 + 3 schedule turned out to be too harsh so I cut back to dropping 1mgpw every 4 weeks which is working better.

Final Dose 0.016mg.     Current dose 0.000mg 04-15-2017

 

"It's also important not to become angry, no matter how difficult life is, because you can loose all hope if you can't laugh at yourself and at life in general."  Stephen Hawking

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  • 2 weeks later...

Thanks. Appreciate the help.

 

On 2/11/2023 at 9:09 PM, brassmonkey said:

You can either remove the excess liquid, discard it and drink the rest or measure out what you need, take it and dispose of the leftovers. Both ways are fine, just be sure to do it the same way each time. Consistency is very important in tapering.

I´m not all sure about this. It seems easiest to use the 5ml syringe to measure out and use that solution and discard whats left in the container, since later when the liquid in ml will be very small it might be simpler to measure..Am i right? I´ll start with 20ml liquid.

 

How many months will it take to complete the taper, and at what dose should one be able to jump off?

I´ve made the math (see below) and it goes really slow at the end, doing 10% of the current dose. And a bit tricky to measure out such small doses.

 

One more thing, as i go from dry tablet to liquid is it needed to adjust a few days on the same dose?

 

Start. 2.5mg 20ml
2,250mg 18ml
2,025mg 16.2ml
1,822.5mg 14.58ml
1,639mg 13.122ml
1,4751mg 11.79ml
1,3275mg 10,611ml
1,195mg 9,54ml
1,075mg 8,58ml
0.967mg 7,72ml
0.87mg 6,95ml
0,78mg 6,25ml
0,702mg 5,62ml
0,63mg 5,058ml
0,57mg 4,55ml
0,51mg 4,095ml
0,459mg 3,68ml
0,41mg 3,31ml
0,369mg 2,9ml

 

Thanks in advance

Medicine: Olanzapine 2017-06: 10mg

2017-08 @10mg. Taper 25% every 3 weeks .2017-11:  2.5mg (1 tablet) Staying put. Completely stabilized.

2018-09:  2.5mg 2018-09 Taper 25% every 2 weeks

2018-11 0.625 milligrams. PA´s started so held on for 3 months. 2019-02 Taper 33% every 3 weeks.

2019-04 Too much tapering. Back to 0.625 milligrams

2019- 06 Taper slower this time: 10% every 2 weeks

2019-09 0.15625 milligrams 

2020-03: Too much taper. Back to 0.625 milligrams 2020: 04 Too destabilized, back to 0.83 milligrams

2021-03 Too destabilized still, back to 1100 milligrams 2021-07 Holding

2022-11-03 Full dose reinstated at 2.5mg. Holding

Supplements: Mag/cal/zink citrate. Omega 3. Vit D 5000 ui/day

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  • Moderator

Hello Svie, I am also in the process of tapering off of 2.5mg of Olanzapine using the water titration method with plans of dropping 5% every two weeks as long as I tolerate the drops and when I calculated it all out, it will take around 24 months to jump off if I feel comfortable jumping at 0.2mg. It's a long process but worth it if it means I can get off this drug while continuing to work and (mostly) function.

 

Pre- October 2022: Wellbutrin, Escitalopram, CitalopramSertraline, Adderall IR, Vyvanse, Propranolol, Buspar, Ativan, and Latuda

Oct 13, 2022 - Oct 24, 2022 and Oct 31, 2022 - Present: Zyprexa (2.5 mg). Jan 14, 2023 -> Began transition to liquid suspension. Jan 29, 2023 = 2.375mg -> Feb 12, 2023 = 2.25mg -> Feb 27, 2023 = 2.14mg -> Mar 12, 2023 = 2.025mg -> Mar 27, 2023 = 1.93mg -> Apr 10, 2023 = 1.82mg -> Apr 23, 2023 = 1.74mg -> May 7, 2023 = 1.64mg -> May 21, 2023 = 1.56mg -> June 4, 2023 = 1.48mg -> June 19, 2023 = 1.4mg -> July 2, 2023 = 1.33mg -> July 16, 2023 = 1.26mg -> July 31, 2023 = 1.2mg -> Aug 13, 2023 = 1.14mg -> Aug 27, 2023 = 1.08mg -> Sep 13, 2023 = 1.02mg -> Jan 22, 2024 = 0.97mg -> Feb 4, 2024 = 0.92mg -> Feb 19, 2024 = 0.87mg -> Mar 3, 2024 = 0.83mg -> Mar 17, 2024 = 0.78mg

Oct 14, 2022 - Present: Prozac (40mg) upped from 20mg on Nov 1, 2022.

Oct 31, 2022 - Present: Gabapentin (300mg 3x day) -> May 3, 2023 = 300mg 2x day -> Oct 1, 2023 = 570mg -> Oct 15, 2023 = 540mg -> Oct 29, 2023 = 510mg -> Nov 13, 2023 = 484mg -> Nov 27, 2023 = 460mg -> Dec 9, 2023 = 436mg -> Dec 24, 2023 = 414mg -> Jan 7, 2024 = 400mg

 

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  • Moderator

Yes, drawing out what you need and discarding the rest will work fine.

 

The Target Exit Dose for Olanzapine would be 0.01mgai.

 

To make a rough estimate of time for the length of a taper, for the recommended 10% every 4 weeks with no extra holds the half-life is 6 months. Meaning that in six months you will be taking half the dose you are currently taking. Six months after that you would be taking half of the smaller dose, and so on. It takes a long time to safely taper off of these drugs. But if you try to speed things up and taper faster, history shows that it will take a lot longer because of setbacks, crashes and the like.

 

When changing the form of a taper we suggest doing a cross taper between the two forms. 75/25,50/50, 25/75, 100 percent taking each step for two weeks and then holding for a few weeks on the new form to let things settle down. There is a topic in the Tapering forum that goes into more detail.

20 years on Paxil starting at 20mg and working up to 40mg. Sept 2011 started 10% every 6 weeks taper (2.5% every week for 4 weeks then hold for 2 additional weeks), currently at 7.9mg. Oct 2011 CTed 15oz vodka a night, to only drinking 2 beers most nights, totally sober Feb 2013.

Since I wrote this I have continued to decrease my dose by 10% every 6 weeks (2.5% every week for 4 weeks and then hold for an additional 2 weeks). I added in an extra 6 week hold when I hit 10mg to let things settle out even more. When I hit 3mgpw it became hard to split the drop into 4 parts so I switched to dropping 1mgpw (pill weight) every week for 3 weeks and then holding for another 3 weeks.  The 3 + 3 schedule turned out to be too harsh so I cut back to dropping 1mgpw every 4 weeks which is working better.

Final Dose 0.016mg.     Current dose 0.000mg 04-15-2017

 

"It's also important not to become angry, no matter how difficult life is, because you can loose all hope if you can't laugh at yourself and at life in general."  Stephen Hawking

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22 hours ago, FireflyFyte said:

Hello Svie, I am also in the process of tapering off of 2.5mg of Olanzapine using the water titration method with plans of dropping 5% every two weeks as long as I tolerate the drops and when I calculated it all out, it will take around 24 months to jump off if I feel comfortable jumping at 0.2mg. It's a long process but worth it if it means I can get off this drug while continuing to work and (mostly) function.

Hello. Thanks for the reply @FireflyFyte!. It´s a long time for sure, but worth it. How did you do the transition to liquid suspension from dry tablet? I´m about to do the same. Are you using water-only as a medium on your taper? Hope your taper goes well

Medicine: Olanzapine 2017-06: 10mg

2017-08 @10mg. Taper 25% every 3 weeks .2017-11:  2.5mg (1 tablet) Staying put. Completely stabilized.

2018-09:  2.5mg 2018-09 Taper 25% every 2 weeks

2018-11 0.625 milligrams. PA´s started so held on for 3 months. 2019-02 Taper 33% every 3 weeks.

2019-04 Too much tapering. Back to 0.625 milligrams

2019- 06 Taper slower this time: 10% every 2 weeks

2019-09 0.15625 milligrams 

2020-03: Too much taper. Back to 0.625 milligrams 2020: 04 Too destabilized, back to 0.83 milligrams

2021-03 Too destabilized still, back to 1100 milligrams 2021-07 Holding

2022-11-03 Full dose reinstated at 2.5mg. Holding

Supplements: Mag/cal/zink citrate. Omega 3. Vit D 5000 ui/day

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16 hours ago, brassmonkey said:

Yes, drawing out what you need and discarding the rest will work fine.

 

The Target Exit Dose for Olanzapine would be 0.01mgai.

 

To make a rough estimate of time for the length of a taper, for the recommended 10% every 4 weeks with no extra holds the half-life is 6 months. Meaning that in six months you will be taking half the dose you are currently taking. Six months after that you would be taking half of the smaller dose, and so on. It takes a long time to safely taper off of these drugs. But if you try to speed things up and taper faster, history shows that it will take a lot longer because of setbacks, crashes and the like.

 

When changing the form of a taper we suggest doing a cross taper between the two forms. 75/25,50/50, 25/75, 100 percent taking each step for two weeks and then holding for a few weeks on the new form to let things settle down. There is a topic in the Tapering forum that goes into more detail.

I understand, I think. But, if jumping off at 0.01 (0.18ml) as you say, that would take 44 months. And from 0.2mg (24 months) to 0.01mg should take 21 months, that´s very slow. I wouldn´t want to go too fast, either. But if one feel stable at a higher dose, 0.2mg for example, i´m thinking it would be okay to jump off from there?

 

About changing to liquid. I have a hard time cutting a dry tablet. I´m using a AWS - Gemini 20 scale but it doesn´t seem to be completely accurate. If i weigh one tablet, it might say 0,85mg and the next time it shows 0.80mg. This was partly why i failed on my previous taper, with uneven doses. Would it be OK to switch without tapering between the two forms? 

 

Thank you

Medicine: Olanzapine 2017-06: 10mg

2017-08 @10mg. Taper 25% every 3 weeks .2017-11:  2.5mg (1 tablet) Staying put. Completely stabilized.

2018-09:  2.5mg 2018-09 Taper 25% every 2 weeks

2018-11 0.625 milligrams. PA´s started so held on for 3 months. 2019-02 Taper 33% every 3 weeks.

2019-04 Too much tapering. Back to 0.625 milligrams

2019- 06 Taper slower this time: 10% every 2 weeks

2019-09 0.15625 milligrams 

2020-03: Too much taper. Back to 0.625 milligrams 2020: 04 Too destabilized, back to 0.83 milligrams

2021-03 Too destabilized still, back to 1100 milligrams 2021-07 Holding

2022-11-03 Full dose reinstated at 2.5mg. Holding

Supplements: Mag/cal/zink citrate. Omega 3. Vit D 5000 ui/day

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  • Moderator
54 minutes ago, Svie said:

How did you do the transition to liquid suspension from dry tablet? I´m about to do the same. Are you using water-only as a medium on your taper?

 

I spent two days at 3/4 pill and 1/4 liquid, two days at 1/2 pill and 1/2 water, two days at 1/4 pill and 3/4 water, and then a little over a week on the water solution before making my first cut. You may want to consider spending more time at each step.

 

I am using water-only and haven't had any issue thus far. I take 25ml of water and put it in an amber jar, place the pill in, put the lid on, and put in the fridge for about an hour. I then take out the jar, unseal, stir using a coffee stirrer, and then draw out what I am reducing, and drink the rest. I have made two drops to date and haven't experienced any withdrawal effects beyond an occasional headache and increased heartrate after exercise.

 

Pre- October 2022: Wellbutrin, Escitalopram, CitalopramSertraline, Adderall IR, Vyvanse, Propranolol, Buspar, Ativan, and Latuda

Oct 13, 2022 - Oct 24, 2022 and Oct 31, 2022 - Present: Zyprexa (2.5 mg). Jan 14, 2023 -> Began transition to liquid suspension. Jan 29, 2023 = 2.375mg -> Feb 12, 2023 = 2.25mg -> Feb 27, 2023 = 2.14mg -> Mar 12, 2023 = 2.025mg -> Mar 27, 2023 = 1.93mg -> Apr 10, 2023 = 1.82mg -> Apr 23, 2023 = 1.74mg -> May 7, 2023 = 1.64mg -> May 21, 2023 = 1.56mg -> June 4, 2023 = 1.48mg -> June 19, 2023 = 1.4mg -> July 2, 2023 = 1.33mg -> July 16, 2023 = 1.26mg -> July 31, 2023 = 1.2mg -> Aug 13, 2023 = 1.14mg -> Aug 27, 2023 = 1.08mg -> Sep 13, 2023 = 1.02mg -> Jan 22, 2024 = 0.97mg -> Feb 4, 2024 = 0.92mg -> Feb 19, 2024 = 0.87mg -> Mar 3, 2024 = 0.83mg -> Mar 17, 2024 = 0.78mg

Oct 14, 2022 - Present: Prozac (40mg) upped from 20mg on Nov 1, 2022.

Oct 31, 2022 - Present: Gabapentin (300mg 3x day) -> May 3, 2023 = 300mg 2x day -> Oct 1, 2023 = 570mg -> Oct 15, 2023 = 540mg -> Oct 29, 2023 = 510mg -> Nov 13, 2023 = 484mg -> Nov 27, 2023 = 460mg -> Dec 9, 2023 = 436mg -> Dec 24, 2023 = 414mg -> Jan 7, 2024 = 400mg

 

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  • Moderator

Our aim is for the easiest possible transition to "0". We have found that the lower the final dose the easier it to make the jump. Plenty of members have made the jump at the 0.2mg range, but they end up having more symptoms after "0" then those who taper further down. In the end it is a much less painful experience and often a quicker one to taper as far as possible before making the jump.

 

Doing a cross taper is not necessary, but highly recommended. Some people have problems with liquids, even if they are made from the same tablets they are currently taking. The cross taper will point up those problems so they can be avoided.

20 years on Paxil starting at 20mg and working up to 40mg. Sept 2011 started 10% every 6 weeks taper (2.5% every week for 4 weeks then hold for 2 additional weeks), currently at 7.9mg. Oct 2011 CTed 15oz vodka a night, to only drinking 2 beers most nights, totally sober Feb 2013.

Since I wrote this I have continued to decrease my dose by 10% every 6 weeks (2.5% every week for 4 weeks and then hold for an additional 2 weeks). I added in an extra 6 week hold when I hit 10mg to let things settle out even more. When I hit 3mgpw it became hard to split the drop into 4 parts so I switched to dropping 1mgpw (pill weight) every week for 3 weeks and then holding for another 3 weeks.  The 3 + 3 schedule turned out to be too harsh so I cut back to dropping 1mgpw every 4 weeks which is working better.

Final Dose 0.016mg.     Current dose 0.000mg 04-15-2017

 

"It's also important not to become angry, no matter how difficult life is, because you can loose all hope if you can't laugh at yourself and at life in general."  Stephen Hawking

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  • Mentor
10 hours ago, Svie said:

I´m using a AWS - Gemini 20 scale but it doesn´t seem to be completely accurate. If i weigh one tablet, it might say 0,85mg and the next time it shows 0.80mg.

 

Are you on generic pills? Not sure if name brand also has this problem, but my generic Wellbutrin varies in weight slightly from pill to pill. Real annoying!

Pronouns: they/them/theirs 

Started on Prozac in early 2000s to treat cPTSD, been on various cocktails ever since.

2002-2004, 2017-2022: Buspar, tapered down to 0

2016-present: 100mg Seroquel for sleep -> May 2023: 90mg -> June 2023: 81mg -> September 2023: 72mg -> switched to brand name, much too strong, down to 60mg -> October 2023: 54mg -> November 2023: 50mg -> January 2024: 45mg

2016-Present: 100mg Wellbutrin SR -> January 2023: 75mg IR (37.5mg 2x a day) -> February 2023 (33.75mg 2x a day) -> July 2023 (30.37mg 2x a day) -> August 2023: 27.33mg 2x a day 

2018-present: 25mg Pristiq

2015-present: 600mg Gabapentin (200mg 3x a day) -> December 2022: 300mg Gabapentin (100mg 3x a day) per GP's recommendation after side effects -> March 2023: 90mg 3x a day (switched to liquid suspension) -> April 2023: 81mg 3x a day -> September 2023: bad generic, switched back to homemade liquid; too strong after bad generic, down to 70mg 3x a day, still bad. Adjusted slowly till at 60mg 3x a day, much better. Long hold till -> December 2023: 54mg, still feels too high after November Seroquel switch from brand name to generic, doc recommended 50mg which feels better -> January 2024: When Wellbutrin went down, Gabapentin started putting me to sleep, went down to 45mg, then 41mg to stay awake, so far so good -> February 2024: 36mg

Supplements: Multivitamin w/magnesium, probiotics, digestive enzymes, anti-viral nitric oxide nose spray as needed

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22 hours ago, FireflyFyte said:

 

I spent two days at 3/4 pill and 1/4 liquid, two days at 1/2 pill and 1/2 water, two days at 1/4 pill and 3/4 water, and then a little over a week on the water solution before making my first cut. You may want to consider spending more time at each step.

 

I am using water-only and haven't had any issue thus far. I take 25ml of water and put it in an amber jar, place the pill in, put the lid on, and put in the fridge for about an hour. I then take out the jar, unseal, stir using a coffee stirrer, and then draw out what I am reducing, and drink the rest. I have made two drops to date and haven't experienced any withdrawal effects beyond an occasional headache and increased heartrate after exercise.

That´s great to hear that you aren´t noticing any withdrawals. Do you thnk that´s because you do 5% drops and not 10? It seems to be gentler that way, however but with changes more often. Intresting that water-only seems to be working, good to hear.

 

On my last attempt to taper I felt much less side effects from the medicine once i got under half a tablet, but replaced by very bad withdrawals instead. Hopefully this time will be easier 

Medicine: Olanzapine 2017-06: 10mg

2017-08 @10mg. Taper 25% every 3 weeks .2017-11:  2.5mg (1 tablet) Staying put. Completely stabilized.

2018-09:  2.5mg 2018-09 Taper 25% every 2 weeks

2018-11 0.625 milligrams. PA´s started so held on for 3 months. 2019-02 Taper 33% every 3 weeks.

2019-04 Too much tapering. Back to 0.625 milligrams

2019- 06 Taper slower this time: 10% every 2 weeks

2019-09 0.15625 milligrams 

2020-03: Too much taper. Back to 0.625 milligrams 2020: 04 Too destabilized, back to 0.83 milligrams

2021-03 Too destabilized still, back to 1100 milligrams 2021-07 Holding

2022-11-03 Full dose reinstated at 2.5mg. Holding

Supplements: Mag/cal/zink citrate. Omega 3. Vit D 5000 ui/day

Link to comment
11 hours ago, littlebird said:

 

Are you on generic pills? Not sure if name brand also has this problem, but my generic Wellbutrin varies in weight slightly from pill to pill. Real annoying!

Hello. Yes, it does vary from tablet to tablet just slightly. It does make it difficult, for sure. I read that the manufactures are allowed to vary up to 5% on their products, unfortunately, whether its filler or the active ingredient

Medicine: Olanzapine 2017-06: 10mg

2017-08 @10mg. Taper 25% every 3 weeks .2017-11:  2.5mg (1 tablet) Staying put. Completely stabilized.

2018-09:  2.5mg 2018-09 Taper 25% every 2 weeks

2018-11 0.625 milligrams. PA´s started so held on for 3 months. 2019-02 Taper 33% every 3 weeks.

2019-04 Too much tapering. Back to 0.625 milligrams

2019- 06 Taper slower this time: 10% every 2 weeks

2019-09 0.15625 milligrams 

2020-03: Too much taper. Back to 0.625 milligrams 2020: 04 Too destabilized, back to 0.83 milligrams

2021-03 Too destabilized still, back to 1100 milligrams 2021-07 Holding

2022-11-03 Full dose reinstated at 2.5mg. Holding

Supplements: Mag/cal/zink citrate. Omega 3. Vit D 5000 ui/day

Link to comment
14 hours ago, brassmonkey said:

 

 

Doing a cross taper is not necessary, but highly recommended. Some people have problems with liquids, even if they are made from the same tablets they are currently taking. The cross taper will point up those problems so they can be avoided.

I understand. Could it be the difference between success and no success, or just a matter of time? I might consider doing it then, but just very cautious about uneven doses this time.

 

Thank you.

Medicine: Olanzapine 2017-06: 10mg

2017-08 @10mg. Taper 25% every 3 weeks .2017-11:  2.5mg (1 tablet) Staying put. Completely stabilized.

2018-09:  2.5mg 2018-09 Taper 25% every 2 weeks

2018-11 0.625 milligrams. PA´s started so held on for 3 months. 2019-02 Taper 33% every 3 weeks.

2019-04 Too much tapering. Back to 0.625 milligrams

2019- 06 Taper slower this time: 10% every 2 weeks

2019-09 0.15625 milligrams 

2020-03: Too much taper. Back to 0.625 milligrams 2020: 04 Too destabilized, back to 0.83 milligrams

2021-03 Too destabilized still, back to 1100 milligrams 2021-07 Holding

2022-11-03 Full dose reinstated at 2.5mg. Holding

Supplements: Mag/cal/zink citrate. Omega 3. Vit D 5000 ui/day

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  • Moderator
1 hour ago, Svie said:

That´s great to hear that you aren´t noticing any withdrawals. Do you thnk that´s because you do 5% drops and not 10? It seems to be gentler that way, however but with changes more often. Intresting that water-only seems to be working, good to hear.

 

I think the 5% drops help as they are smaller steps down but I still get to the 10% reduction per month. I am also early in my taper (only down to 2.25mg from 2.5mg) so might experience more withdrawal symptoms when I get to smaller amounts but, if that happens, will do smaller drops and/or longer holds to try and mitigate the withdrawal.

 

I opted for the water method after reading hayduke's thread as that was the method he used with success.

 

Pre- October 2022: Wellbutrin, Escitalopram, CitalopramSertraline, Adderall IR, Vyvanse, Propranolol, Buspar, Ativan, and Latuda

Oct 13, 2022 - Oct 24, 2022 and Oct 31, 2022 - Present: Zyprexa (2.5 mg). Jan 14, 2023 -> Began transition to liquid suspension. Jan 29, 2023 = 2.375mg -> Feb 12, 2023 = 2.25mg -> Feb 27, 2023 = 2.14mg -> Mar 12, 2023 = 2.025mg -> Mar 27, 2023 = 1.93mg -> Apr 10, 2023 = 1.82mg -> Apr 23, 2023 = 1.74mg -> May 7, 2023 = 1.64mg -> May 21, 2023 = 1.56mg -> June 4, 2023 = 1.48mg -> June 19, 2023 = 1.4mg -> July 2, 2023 = 1.33mg -> July 16, 2023 = 1.26mg -> July 31, 2023 = 1.2mg -> Aug 13, 2023 = 1.14mg -> Aug 27, 2023 = 1.08mg -> Sep 13, 2023 = 1.02mg -> Jan 22, 2024 = 0.97mg -> Feb 4, 2024 = 0.92mg -> Feb 19, 2024 = 0.87mg -> Mar 3, 2024 = 0.83mg -> Mar 17, 2024 = 0.78mg

Oct 14, 2022 - Present: Prozac (40mg) upped from 20mg on Nov 1, 2022.

Oct 31, 2022 - Present: Gabapentin (300mg 3x day) -> May 3, 2023 = 300mg 2x day -> Oct 1, 2023 = 570mg -> Oct 15, 2023 = 540mg -> Oct 29, 2023 = 510mg -> Nov 13, 2023 = 484mg -> Nov 27, 2023 = 460mg -> Dec 9, 2023 = 436mg -> Dec 24, 2023 = 414mg -> Jan 7, 2024 = 400mg

 

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On 2/23/2023 at 2:58 PM, FireflyFyte said:

 

I think the 5% drops help as they are smaller steps down but I still get to the 10% reduction per month. I am also early in my taper (only down to 2.25mg from 2.5mg) so might experience more withdrawal symptoms when I get to smaller amounts but, if that happens, will do smaller drops and/or longer holds to try and mitigate the withdrawal.

 

I opted for the water method after reading hayduke's thread as that was the method he used with success.

I see. I´m debating myself whether to go 5% or 10% I´ll see..

 

Thanks for mentioning hayduke thread. Always nice to read success stories

Medicine: Olanzapine 2017-06: 10mg

2017-08 @10mg. Taper 25% every 3 weeks .2017-11:  2.5mg (1 tablet) Staying put. Completely stabilized.

2018-09:  2.5mg 2018-09 Taper 25% every 2 weeks

2018-11 0.625 milligrams. PA´s started so held on for 3 months. 2019-02 Taper 33% every 3 weeks.

2019-04 Too much tapering. Back to 0.625 milligrams

2019- 06 Taper slower this time: 10% every 2 weeks

2019-09 0.15625 milligrams 

2020-03: Too much taper. Back to 0.625 milligrams 2020: 04 Too destabilized, back to 0.83 milligrams

2021-03 Too destabilized still, back to 1100 milligrams 2021-07 Holding

2022-11-03 Full dose reinstated at 2.5mg. Holding

Supplements: Mag/cal/zink citrate. Omega 3. Vit D 5000 ui/day

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I can´t decide about the 10% vs 5% taper. I understand that the 5% taper every 2 weeks is gentler than a larger cut at 10% every 4 weeks. But then why do people do 10% cut? What are the advantages of 10% cut? 

 

Edit: I plan on doing the switch to liquid from dry tablet without a cross-transition. If I experience any discomfort from that, is it just a matter of time/days/weeks to adjust to the new solution? 

Medicine: Olanzapine 2017-06: 10mg

2017-08 @10mg. Taper 25% every 3 weeks .2017-11:  2.5mg (1 tablet) Staying put. Completely stabilized.

2018-09:  2.5mg 2018-09 Taper 25% every 2 weeks

2018-11 0.625 milligrams. PA´s started so held on for 3 months. 2019-02 Taper 33% every 3 weeks.

2019-04 Too much tapering. Back to 0.625 milligrams

2019- 06 Taper slower this time: 10% every 2 weeks

2019-09 0.15625 milligrams 

2020-03: Too much taper. Back to 0.625 milligrams 2020: 04 Too destabilized, back to 0.83 milligrams

2021-03 Too destabilized still, back to 1100 milligrams 2021-07 Holding

2022-11-03 Full dose reinstated at 2.5mg. Holding

Supplements: Mag/cal/zink citrate. Omega 3. Vit D 5000 ui/day

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I might do a cross-transition on a second thought. But will dry cutting and measuring the tablet by only the eye be good enough? It won´t be as accurate as weighing on a scale, but my scale is not that accurate anyways.

For example cutting a whole tablet in half by eye, take one part and use the other part in a liquid solution. It would be 100% of the tablet but not completely 50% of each form

Medicine: Olanzapine 2017-06: 10mg

2017-08 @10mg. Taper 25% every 3 weeks .2017-11:  2.5mg (1 tablet) Staying put. Completely stabilized.

2018-09:  2.5mg 2018-09 Taper 25% every 2 weeks

2018-11 0.625 milligrams. PA´s started so held on for 3 months. 2019-02 Taper 33% every 3 weeks.

2019-04 Too much tapering. Back to 0.625 milligrams

2019- 06 Taper slower this time: 10% every 2 weeks

2019-09 0.15625 milligrams 

2020-03: Too much taper. Back to 0.625 milligrams 2020: 04 Too destabilized, back to 0.83 milligrams

2021-03 Too destabilized still, back to 1100 milligrams 2021-07 Holding

2022-11-03 Full dose reinstated at 2.5mg. Holding

Supplements: Mag/cal/zink citrate. Omega 3. Vit D 5000 ui/day

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