Svie: olanzapine - ever greatful for any advice

[FireflyFyte]

5 hours ago, Svie said:

I might do a cross-transition on a second thought. But will dry cutting and measuring the tablet by only the eye be good enough? It won´t be as accurate as weighing on a scale, but my scale is not that accurate anyways.

For example cutting a whole tablet in half by eye, take one part and use the other part in a liquid solution. It would be 100% of the tablet but not completely 50% of each form

 

I would recommend the cross-transition just to be safe. I didn't use a scale when I transitioned from tablet to liquid and just used a pill cutter to do 3/4 pill and 1/4 water, 1/2 pill and 1/2 water, and then 1/4 pill and 3/4 pill before I stayed on a full liquid suspension for a little over a week before making my first drop.

[Svie]

On 3/6/2023 at 9:03 PM, FireflyFyte said:

 

I would recommend the cross-transition just to be safe. I didn't use a scale when I transitioned from tablet to liquid and just used a pill cutter to do 3/4 pill and 1/4 water, 1/2 pill and 1/2 water, and then 1/4 pill and 3/4 pill before I stayed on a full liquid suspension for a little over a week before making my first drop.

That´s helpful to know. Thanks a whole lot for the reply

 

I´m still collection courage to start.

[FireflyFyte]

34 minutes ago, Svie said:

That´s helpful to know. Thanks a whole lot for the reply

 

I´m still collection courage to start.

 

Happy to help.

 

Getting ready to taper can be very anxiety inducing so I wouldn't rush it. Work on non-drug coping skills to help manage the anxiety before you begin the journey. 

[Svie]

On 3/8/2023 at 3:04 PM, FireflyFyte said:

 

Happy to help.

 

Getting ready to taper can be very anxiety inducing so I wouldn't rush it. Work on non-drug coping skills to help manage the anxiety before you begin the journey. 

I´ll look into that. Great. It´s just that i´m more anxious about the cross-transition than the taper itself. It feels easier to just switch without mixing both form, since each form has a different absorption rate, so to me it feels more confusing to the body.

 

Ive switched to liquid once before, without any crossing, but at that time I was already so unstable from the current taper that I´m not really sure about any side effects from the switch. For me, a tablet take 5 minutes for effect, and liquid about 30-40 seconds.

 

I guess ill just ignore the feeling and go with what is recommended, however i might think about it

[Svie]

Hello all.

 

I´m about to start my taper. I´ve been postponing it because i´m fearful any withdrawals would be difficult to deal with based on my previous history. But I really want to start now, since I get quite bad side effects from the medicine. I´m just too tense those side effects will get worse when transitioning from tablet to liquid. I´ve heard the medcine can feel stronger when switching, is this true? Hence stronger side effects too.

 

It´s just a bit hard to take the chance and start!

 

Also, I can´t make up my mind if i want to do 5% each two weeks or 10% each 4 weeks. I feel like i want to do 1 cut each month but if that mean more withdrawals compared to the other way then I´m not so sure.

[Svie]

I can´t seem to decide which route to go. Been thinking for months now. I´m not at all stable at the moment and get side effects from the medicine. It just feels like switching to liquid will hit too hard and de-stabilize me further. 

 

This happened to this person:

 

Could it be counterwise by doing a switch directly to liquid and with a decreased dosage of 10%? (without cross-taper)

 

Or should i not worry?

I could keep dry-cutting untill about half a tablet and then switch, could that be fine? Weighting wont be nearly as accurate though

 

@brassmonkey Do you have any idea?

[brassmonkey]

Your signature indicates you have been holding at 1100mg for about 18 months. Is this correct?

 

Unless a person is extremely sensitive to changes dry cutting is a very good way to go. With careful measuring it can be very accurate. If it is working, then I would not suggest changing methods.

[Svie]

Thanks! @brassmonkey I have updated my signature. I`m back at 2.5mg, a full tablet, since 6 months back. I just couldnt stabilize no matter time and effort. I don´t know if this was the right decision. But ive stabilized as much as i can for now and intend to start again down from 2.5mg and do it right and safe this time. But am instead fearful at starting. I need to learn to trust the process again.

 

Dry-cutting didn´t work well for me, i could never get an accurate dose with my gemini-scale, i found it too difficult and time consuming. Most days it would take up to an hour getting a dose correct. The scale keeps jumping around and it got frustrating. So I want to try with a liquid solution, but I have my doubts since i´m sensitive.

 

Would doing a careful cross-transition increase my chances of succesfully switching? Or would it be helpful to switch directly with a decreased dosage right away?

 

Much appreciate any help!

 

edit. On my previous attempt, some two years ago, i did switch to liquid, but at that point i was already very unstable so i couldnt really tell anything about that process. I remember i got worse though, and eventually switched back to dry tablet. So i´m not sure how to judge that switch

[brassmonkey]

Stability is a major factor in any taper, so you want to maintain it as best as possible. The whole reason for a cross taper is to maintain stability. Also, it allows you to find out if you are compatible with a liquid. Even making it yourself from the same tablets can cause problems for some people. It is better to find out during a cross taper then making the straight jump.

[Svie]

Thanks again for your reply! @brassmonkey

 

With the cross-transition i just find it difficult measuring out the weight of the tablet, for example getting exact 25% dry mixed with the liquid. the reason i want to switch is because i find measuring on scale hard. Do you have any tips, or should measuring by eye and a pill cutter be sufficent?

 

Also, when taking a liquid solution versus dry tablet, in my earlier experience the effect hit much faster upon taking it, more like 30 seconds contra 10 minutes. It also hit harder. Is this good or bad or normal? So I don´t panic or worry when doing it

 

Thanks a bunch!

[FireflyFyte]

10 hours ago, Svie said:

With the cross-transition i just find it difficult measuring out the weight of the tablet, for example getting exact 25% dry mixed with the liquid. the reason i want to switch is because i find measuring on scale hard. Do you have any tips, or should measuring by eye and a pill cutter be sufficent?

 

When I transitioned from pill to liquid with Olanzapine, I just used a pill cutter and measured by eye. I started with 3/4 pill and 1/4 in liquid and then moved onto 1/2 pill and 1/2 liquid and so forth. Thankfully, I didn't have any problems switching to a liquid solution for my dose but agree with brassmonkey that I wouldn't try transitioning and decreasing at the same time as you won't know which of the two changes might cause issues if they arise.

Edited May 15, 2023 by FireflyFyte
Put cute instead of cutter

[Svie]

17 hours ago, FireflyFyte said:

 

When I transitioned from pill to liquid with Olanzapine, I just used a pill cutter and measured by eye. I started with 3/4 pill and 1/4 in liquid and then moved onto 1/2 pill and 1/2 liquid and so forth. Thankfully, I didn't have any problems switching to a liquid solution for my dose but agree with brassmonkey that I wouldn't try transitioning and decreasing at the same time as you won't know which of the two changes might cause issues if they arise.

Thank you lots for the reply @FireflyFyte This seems very easy. But I did try splitting 5 tablets into 4 pieces each, and only 1 of them was kind of accurate after weighing. Perhaps if i only did 1 part of the cross-taper, 50% of each form, would maybe be easier than doing it in 4 parts. However i just worry that for example a slight decrease/increase in dosage, lets say one day its 98% of a full dose and the next day its 102%, would be worse than just doing a direct switch. Or am i wong. Glad to hear it worked for you!

 

Did you notice a difference in absorbtion between dry and liquid, or anything else?

[FireflyFyte]

2 hours ago, Svie said:

However i just worry that for example a slight decrease/increase in dosage, lets say one day its 98% of a full dose and the next day its 102%, would be worse than just doing a direct switch. Or am i wong. Glad to hear it worked for you!

 

During the transition, you will take 100% of the dose each day but just split between the pill form and the liquid solution. I prepared my dose every day.

 

2 hours ago, Svie said:

Did you notice a difference in absorbtion between dry and liquid, or anything else?

 

I did not notice any differences between dry and liquid.

[Svie]

1 hour ago, FireflyFyte said:

 

During the transition, you will take 100% of the dose each day but just split between the pill form and the liquid solution. I prepared my dose every day.

 

 

I did not notice any differences between dry and liquid.

Yes, what I meant is that there could be a slight variance in percentage when doing by eye, or even by scale. And that it might be noticeable when being overly sensitive. I just don´t know.

 

For me it absorbs greatly faster and more. I do wonder if that´s still fine or not

[Svie]

Hello thread. I have not been posting here since early May. I`m still holding my current dose. But I really want to get started and taper down. I just don´t know what to do. The problem is the transition to liquid. I currently take 2.5mg in form of a tablet. I keep postponing because I´m not sure how to transition.

The thing is that when splitting (cross-transition) the tablet and doing 1 part dry and 1 part liquid, the absorbtion rate is very different for me.

So for example if i start with 75% dry and 25% liquid - the medicine in the liquid my body will absorb and get effect under a minute, while the dry tablet will come much later about 10-15 minutes. This will right away cause havoc to my nervous system upon absorbing the liquid part waiting for the dry part to take place.

 

I´ve had someone telling me I could do dry part first then wait an hour and do liquid with food, but in no way my nervous system would comply with that.

 

So is it a very bad idea to just go 100% liquid at once, skipping the cross-transition? This is the question i´ve been pondering the last few months but i just go back and forth while the clock is ticking

 

Thanks sincerely for help

 

Edit. And what i say " take effect" I mean the tranquilizing properties of the medicine

[FireflyFyte]

Hi Svie,

 

If you are concerned about switching to liquid, have you considered tapering by filing and using a scale to measure your dosage? You can learn more about using a scale to taper at Using a scale to weigh and measure doses.

 

Thanks,

 

Firefly

[Svie]

22 hours ago, FireflyFyte said:

Hi Svie,

 

If you are concerned about switching to liquid, have you considered tapering by filing and using a scale to measure your dosage? You can learn more about using a scale to taper at Using a scale to weigh and measure doses.

 

Thanks,

 

Firefly

Hi. Thank you @FireflyFyte for the reply. It means a lot. I´m a bit concerned yes, but should I be that? I just don´t know if my situation is different from others that have done the transition. But it seems i´m a tad too sensitive to start with. And so yes I have thought about using a scale instead. But since when at the endgame-taper, using liquid is almost a must.

 

I originally tapered using a scale, but i didn´t find a non-complicated way to measure so I just used a razor-bladed knife and filed on to the tablet until it measured correctly. This was very time-consuming and at times frustrating. Is this a viable option though?

 

I did try today using the "normal" way, crushing the tablet into powder and subract the right amount. Taking off 10% was fairly easy, but when I tried taking off 50% (just for test) the whole process got much more difficult and unreliably and the amount of powder from the whole tablet is smal to begin with.  Liquid is much more straight forward to me.

[N2deep]

Hi Svie,

I am also on 2.5mg of olanzapine. I see you are wary to switch to liquid to taper, but feel it might be the best method for you. I know a lot of people here switch gradually over to liquid because they feel the solid vs liquid will be metabolized at different rates because the pill doesn't immediately dissolve once you ingest it. 

 

I don't know about other pills, but my 2.5mg sandoz olanzapine tablets dissolve basically immediately. You can test it yourself, put one of these tablets in a bit of water and see how fast it disintegrates. If you swallow a tablet with water, it is my belief that by the time it reaches your stomach it will be disintegrated. So in my opinion, with this specific drug it doesn't matter, solid or liquid, it's the same. Long story short I wouldn't worry about it.

If you do, for example, half liquid/half solid, that cut in half pill will disintegrate even faster than a solid pill, basically as soon as it hits the saliva in your mouth (in my experience). I'm no expert on this site of course, but I just don't think any of it makes any difference with this drug (at least the pills I have, anyway).

[Svie]

On 9/20/2023 at 3:18 AM, N2deep said:

Hi Svie,

I am also on 2.5mg of olanzapine. I see you are wary to switch to liquid to taper, but feel it might be the best method for you. I know a lot of people here switch gradually over to liquid because they feel the solid vs liquid will be metabolized at different rates because the pill doesn't immediately dissolve once you ingest it. 

 

I don't know about other pills, but my 2.5mg sandoz olanzapine tablets dissolve basically immediately. You can test it yourself, put one of these tablets in a bit of water and see how fast it disintegrates. If you swallow a tablet with water, it is my belief that by the time it reaches your stomach it will be disintegrated. So in my opinion, with this specific drug it doesn't matter, solid or liquid, it's the same. Long story short I wouldn't worry about it.

If you do, for example, half liquid/half solid, that cut in half pill will disintegrate even faster than a solid pill, basically as soon as it hits the saliva in your mouth (in my experience). I'm no expert on this site of course, but I just don't think any of it makes any difference with this drug (at least the pills I have, anyway).

Hi and thanks @N2deep It does take about 20 minutes to dissolve in water. My tablets have a tough coating. When you switched to liquid, did you do a cross-transition, one part in tablet form and one in liquid?

[Svie]

By the way, does anyone have an answer to my second question posted on September 6th? About the cutting.

 

Thanks kindly

[N2deep]

On 10/21/2023 at 8:16 AM, Svie said:

Hi and thanks @N2deep It does take about 20 minutes to dissolve in water. My tablets have a tough coating. When you switched to liquid, did you do a cross-transition, one part in tablet form and one in liquid?

No I did not. I figure that cutting pills into quarters, the fact they're so small and don't cut well without breaking up, and thus the loss attributable to that will create more issue than just switching to liquid. As well, once the tablet is split, it will dissolve basically immediately in your mouth or in water. I simply do not believe this slow crossover is necessary. But of course others feel differently.

[Svie]

20 hours ago, N2deep said:

No I did not. I figure that cutting pills into quarters, the fact they're so small and don't cut well without breaking up, and thus the loss attributable to that will create more issue than just switching to liquid. As well, once the tablet is split, it will dissolve basically immediately in your mouth or in water. I simply do not believe this slow crossover is necessary. But of course others feel differently.

Thanks a lot for your reply

[Svie]

I´m looking for advice here. I`ve held 2.5mg for a year now, trying to stabilize. Innitially at my lowest dose (0.15625 milligrams), i experienced signs of psychosis with lots of dopamine sensitivity, and at one point a hallucination. And I could not feel the difference between hot water and ice cold water. I had quite a few panic attacks as well. Since then I had to re-instate the last dose i was stable on (2.5mg) and ive held that for a year.

 

I´m not feeling good at all on this medicine with it´s side effects. I´m 80% stabilized now. I don´t see myself improve as it is by waiting much longer. Is it fine to start taper again? (doing 5% reductions every 2 weeks) I don´t want to get any of these symptoms ever again but i need to feel my emotions and being happy again. I´ve been on it for too long now. (6-7 years)

 

Thanks

[Svie]

Hello all.

 

I´m one of those who are sensitive to cuts.

I want to continue my taper from my current dose at 2.5mg

I´m thinking of doing the taper with dry tablets, 10%/ month then at half the dose, which should take 6 months, switch to liquid and do 5% cuts each 2 weeks.

Does this sound good?

[LotusRising]

@Svie, I've moved your comment from the tapering forum, here to your thread, as it seems to pertain to your personal tapering strategy.

 

Since you mention you're sensitive to cuts, I'm wondering if you've done a 10% reduction before? How did you feel after cutting that amount? You could also try a 5% cut to start?

 

I would try not to get too far ahead with a plan until you know how your body responds.

 

 

[Svie]

5 hours ago, LotusRising said:

@Svie, I've moved your comment from the tapering forum, here to your thread, as it seems to pertain to your personal tapering strategy.

 

Since you mention you're sensitive to cuts, I'm wondering if you've done a 10% reduction before? How did you feel after cutting that amount? You could also try a 5% cut to start?

 

I would try not to get too far ahead with a plan until you know how your body responds.

 

 

Hello. Thanks for moving it.

 

To the question. I havn´t actually tried 10% from the start and doing what recommends here. I did about 10% later on my last attempt but at that point i wasn´t stable enough to begin with. I might try 5% now and another 5% 2 weeks later, then evalute if i can do one 10% each cut or continue with the 5%. Then later when the tablet is too small i´ll switch to liquid.

Does it sound decent? It´s either that or going liquid right away, but i´m a bit nervous for that change at the moment, so i´m not so sure.

[FireflyFyte]

35 minutes ago, Svie said:

Does it sound decent? It´s either that or going liquid right away, but i´m a bit nervous for that change at the moment, so i´m not so sure.

 

Some people encounter issues switching to liquids while others don't have any problems with the transition (myself included). We do recommend that if you want to transition to liquid, to do it slowly so you could do something like the following -

 

• 5-7 days at 3/4 pill and 1/4 liquid
• 5-7 days at 1/2 pill and 1/4 liquid
• 5-7 days at 1/4 pill and 3/4 liquid

Then hold at a full liquid suspension for at least 1-2 weeks before starting a taper.

 

37 minutes ago, Svie said:

I might try 5% now and another 5% 2 weeks later, then evalute if i can do one 10% each cut or continue with the 5%.

 

If you have experienced bumps with 10% drops in the past than I think it is more than reasonable to try 5% and see how your body reacts.

[LotusRising]

1 hour ago, Svie said:

I might try 5% now and another 5% 2 weeks later, then evalute if i can do one 10% each cut or continue with the 5%. Then later when the tablet is too small i´ll switch to liquid.

 

This sounds like a great plan to me. When you're ready to switch over to liquid, we suggest doing a crossover. Our general recommendation for a crossover, whether from new brand to old brand generic or tablet to liquid is:

 

3/4 old, 1/4 new for 3 to 7 days 

1/2 old, 1/2 new for 3 to 7 days

1/4 old, 3/4 new for 3 to 7 days

all new thereafter

 

Stay at the same dose during the crossover period.

 

Let us know how it all goes. 

[LotusRising]

Oops, I see @FireflyFyte already answered you!