jr1985: Effexor / venlafaxine taper

[Altostrata]

Yes, or phone him, see http://medicine.cf.ac.uk/person/prof-david-thomas-healy/

 

There are instructions for calibrating the scale in the digital scale topic.

[jr1985]

The worst part about this is that I have no idea why I'm having these weird symptoms. Is it a side effect? Is it withdrawal? But I haven't even changed the dose! The symptoms themselves aren't completely awful, but it's the unknown that terrifies me - where do they come from? what if they get worse? What if they never go away? Is it a problem with nerves or with my muscles? Is it poop-out? And so on...

 

It feels like the muscles in my legs are tensed up, getting ready for action.

 

Is it likely that all the changes I made to the dose, the scales (which would have also changed the dose) and the timing have caught up with me? Sorry, I know I've asked this a million yimes before but I'm just looking for a little reassurance. EVERYTIME I've had these symptoms I have changed something before hand - the dose, the timing, etc. Yet when I sit still they've eventually gone away. It can't just be a coincidence can it?

 

I think I need to listen to Claire Weekes again, as she teaches acceptance and letting time pass. Both things I need to do!

 

PS. Vitamin B6 helps a lot with these symptoms, but it still worries me that I have to take it.

[Altostrata]

If B6 helps, take it.

 

We can't tell the future, jr. Trust your ability to cope. You've done brilliantly so far.

[MrAnxious]

The worst part about this is that I have no idea why I'm having these weird symptoms. Is it a side effect? Is it withdrawal? But I haven't even changed the dose! The symptoms themselves aren't completely awful, but it's the unknown that terrifies me - where do they come from? what if they get worse? What if they never go away? Is it a problem with nerves or with my muscles? Is it poop-out? And so on...

 

It feels like the muscles in my legs are tensed up, getting ready for action.

 

Is it likely that all the changes I made to the dose, the scales (which would have also changed the dose) and the timing have caught up with me? Sorry, I know I've asked this a million yimes before but I'm just looking for a little reassurance. EVERYTIME I've had these symptoms I have changed something before hand - the dose, the timing, etc. Yet when I sit still they've eventually gone away. It can't just be a coincidence can it?

 

I think I need to listen to Claire Weekes again, as she teaches acceptance and letting time pass. Both things I need to do!

 

PS. Vitamin B6 helps a lot with these symptoms, but it still worries me that I have to take it.

 

 

J.R how do you feel depression/ anxiety wise right now since you have tapered slow other than what is going on right now? Are you functional? are you enjoying things?

[jr1985]

Hi MrA, well to be honest with you I haven't really been depressed at all during any of this.

 

My main problem has been anxiety, which is centred around how I feel. IOW, when my physical symptoms (RLS, insomnia, etc) flare up, I become terrified that they'll get worse or never go away, etc. But the truth is they usually get better as long as I hold. This is why I recommend Claire Weekes. She teaches us to accept how we feel without adding fear to it.

 

Despite some physical symptoms and anxiety I can honestly say that I am functioning (studying, work, etc) and I can enjoy life. I guess it helps put things into perspective when I feel like I can't cope with some RLS when there are people out there like you who are coping with much worse symptoms.

[MrAnxious]

J.R I just have to say after reading what you have gone through also you are one strong person and commend you for battling this out and making the decision to slowly taper off and do it the right way. All these symptoms now will and should be gone in the near future, just keep the battle strong , you have that kind of character and I just wish I had 1/10th of the strength that you do. Going off Effexor has been my worst nightmare come true and I am sure you can attest to that.

 

We are so unprepared with what is happening to us and our mind/body/soul we get all wrapped up in the what if's , the when's and how's we forget how to just enjoy the moment, but it sounds like you have come a far way and I just wanted to say "way to go". I truly think we are meant in a way to experience this type of journey and we find out so much about ourselfs in the process that not alot of people would experience. In a way I pray and thank god that it's not a disease that is a immenent death and we can cope or recover or overcome, unlike cancer/ aids and such. That helps me thinking of it that way, or having to press a needle in our arm for the rest of our lifes( not that it's a bad thing).

 

Remember that most of the worst is over and the light at the end of the tunnel is always there, that anxiety does have to do with the insomnia and different side effects you are currently dealing with, but I believe over time they will go away, the nervous system has to heal in those spots that were burnt and frayed( how i look at it ). And this can take awhile but in the mean time, appreciate where you have come where you have been and what's in the future

 

 

Thanks for inspiring me that one day I will come off this medication, I know I am off Effexor but it will be imprinted on me for awhile and now I am on Zoloft to and not quite stable but only 3 weeks in, wait for a year or more to get fully stable and my life back on track and then I can talk to you about coming down and so on, cause I know you will re cover, you have faith and determination, else you really wouldn't be here right now.

 

 

 

take care my friend

[jr1985]

Thank you so much for your message, MrA, it meant a lot to me. I'm glad I've inspired you to take things slowly.

 

I have learnt so much since this nightmare began. It has taught me to be extremely cautious of so-called "experts" (i.e. Doctors). They don't know everything and any knowledge they do have is tainted by the drug companies. It has forced me to look at my lifestyle - diet, exercise, sleep, etc. I've also taken up meditation, which I don't do nearly as often as I should. I'm also grateful that it has led me to this place with all you wonderful people.

 

I suspect you're right that the worst is over. As annoying as they are, any symptoms I've had recently have never been as bad as the ones I had in the beginning. Honestly, the worst part about it is the "unknown" - what exactly are these strange symptoms? What causes them? And so forth. I suspect they are a sign of "neurological instability" caused by the rapid taper, reinstatement and all the chopping and changing I've done since then. So I guess the best course of action for the time being is to keep holding. I'm considering sticking to the same dose until the new year but I dunno if I can be that patient...

[jr1985]

Hmm, so I was reading MSG can cause nerve pain, tingling, jaw tension, etc, which are all symptoms I have. I believe I read somewhere on this site that glutamate is hyperactive in withdrawal, which may explain my current symptoms. It may also explain why B6 helps, as this converts glutamate into GABA. Once it becames dysregulated, can the glutaminergic system be fixed by reinstatement and holding, or does it have to heal on its own time (I.e. years!)?. Obviously, I don't want to taper while my brain is still in withdrawal.

[jr1985]

Had a rough night last night. After I took my B6 I became really restless! It's like it did the complete opposite of what it normally does. I did eventually manage to drift off to sleep.

 

It's the first time I've taken 50mg consistently over a few days in a row, so I'm guessing its some kind of accumulative effect. I'll take a break for a day or two then try 25mg.

 

The other possibility is that my alerting system rebelled against the tiredness. I've been working long hours over the past week, so I've been pretty exhausted.

[Altostrata]

The glutaminergic system is the same as the alerting system. If you can calm it, glutamine excitation is reduced, too.

[jr1985]

Well it seems like holding is working, as I feel much better RLS-wise. However, I have this kind of mild itchy feeling in my arms and legs, which seems to flare up more after I've eaten sugar. I wonder if its a sign that my nerves are healing after the shock from withdrawal. People with damaged nerves report feeling itchy as they repair themselves.

[jr1985]

Hello everyone, just a small update. I'm pleased to report I haven't had any RLS for weeks. I still have some tingling now and again but it's quite mild. I've had a few bouts of feeling completely normal, so I'm going to keep holding until I feel normal all the time to give myself a firm foundation for tapering.

 

The only problem I'm having at the moment is that it's getting harder and harder to get out of bed and get things done. Before, I was able to drag myself out of bed, do some studying and walk the dog. Now the poor dog is lucky if be gets walked, and my studying is starting to slide too. There are a few possibilities for why this is happening - w/d, SSRI-induced apathy syndrome, SAD, I've been fatigued from having a cold. Any advice would be great!

[BM1]

It certainly is a roller coaster ride. I am down from 150 to about 18 yet I still am under its spell. If I try to drop even by 10 percent after a month I feel symptoms. If I miss a dose (as I did yesterday) I am really edgy, frustrated, impatient etc which shows me how even a small dose is adjusting my chemistry. I am so tired of this and want to get off completely but trying to stay the course. I guess you have to have faith and perseverance and keep the goal in mind. I am so frustrated and stressed most of the time from the normal stresses of my life and job it is tempting to reverse course and stabilize but I am committed to getting this stuff out of my system and allowing my chemistry and nervous system to find there way back to a natural state. I just hope that natural state gives me peace and some comfort because right now I have not peace of mind and am in daily turmoil. I need relief but hope that sometime I will find it I hang in there long enough. The place I am now is no place to be.

[jr1985]

Well after a couple of days feeling normal the tingling/RLS sensations have gotten worse. I think there's a few possibilities why - random wave, inaccurate weighing, too much sugar/chocolate or the MSG in the Chinese I had a couple of days ago. Here's hoping it passes quickly.

[jr1985]

OMG I'm such an idiot! My symptoms flared up because of the time change for daylight savings! They actually haven't been THAT bad, just more noticeable.

 

Is the "dose change" due to late dosing more severe than it would be from a slow taper? i.e. taking it an hour late vs taking a little less at the same time.

[Altostrata]

If you're very sensitive, which we know you are, a small change in schedule might cause symptoms.

[Skyler]

Hi jr... I've had to shift Lyrica by 15 min. increments a day and had not considered the shift back to Standard Time to be an issue, so thanks for the heads up on that. It's discouraging to realize you need to be so cautious, but also heartening in you can avoid some of the symptoms, and EVENTUALLY you will be less sensitive. Gosh, you really have had a go of it.

[jr1985]

Yeah, it's actually a relief to know there's a reason for my symptoms reappearing. It's something's that's within my control and can be avoided in the future, it's not just a random resurgence. Although, its worrying that it doesn't take much to set me off. Of course, I already knew this.

 

I was never this sensitive before, I was always able to miss a dose and have withdrawal symptoms that went away within an hour or so of taking the next dose. Now it doesn't take much to set me off and takes a week or longer to resolve.

 

But the truth is, I haven't had an episode of feeling "normal" for a long enough period. Any time I've felt almost normal I've screwed it up by missing a dose, using a different scale, time change, etc. The first time I felt normal since the last episode - ie. no weird sensations in arms/legs/head was on the Sunday when the clocks changed. Then obviously I screwed it up later that night. Oh well, live and learn.

[jr1985]

Hi everyone, I'm not doing too good today. I feel light headed, lethargic, strange bodily sensations, nausea, etc. I don't know if it's entirely withdrawal related or I'm coming down with a virus or something. I have no idea what caused this if it's withdrawal, cos I've been dosing at the same time, etc. Only thing I can think of is I ate a lot of sugar on Tuesday and Wednesday, which may have triggered a wave (is that even possible?).

 

I feel like crying. I thought at this point I'd be stable but now I feel worse than ever in some way.

[jr1985]

I'm actually hoping its just the flu. My mum had a virus last week, so I'm thinking I could've pick it up from her.

 

My head feels fuzzy, weak muscles and my forehead's a bit warm.

[Skyler]

I'm actually hoping its just the flu. My mum had a virus last week, so I'm thinking I could've pick it up from her.

 

My head feels fuzzy, weak muscles and my forehead's a bit warm.

 

Jr.. methinks you have the flu or something akin to. I work on the web...and it's EVERYWHERE! Take care of yourself. Hope you feel betterz soon.

[jr1985]

 

I'm actually hoping its just the flu. My mum had a virus last week, so I'm thinking I could've pick it up from her.

 

My head feels fuzzy, weak muscles and my forehead's a bit warm.

 

Jr.. methinks you have the flu or something akin to. I work on the web...and it's EVERYWHERE! Take care of yourself. Hope you feel betterz soon.

 

Thanks, Schuyler. I hope you're right. It probably sounds strange but I'm really hoping it is the flu and not withdrawal. The idea that it's withdrawal terrifies me, because it means symptoms, that I have no control over, can pop up at random whenever they want for whatever reason, and can stick around for however long... Even though I haven't done anything to trigger them! At least if I trigger w/d by missing a dose I have some control over it, and can prevent it happening in the future. Or if it's the flu, I know what I'm dealing with, and I know it'll only last for a week or two. It's the "not knowing" that terrifies me.

[jr1985]

Well now I'm wondering if my symptom resurgence is because I stopped taking omega3? I ran out and stopped taking it for a few days, which is when the symptoms resurfaced?

 

I bought some more yesterday and took 2. I feel a bit better today but I think 2 might be too stimulating.

 

Does this mean I'm "dependent" on omega3 to keep my symptoms at bay?

[Altostrata]

Could be a coincidence or could be omega-3s do you a lot of good.

[jr1985]

Haven't updated this in a while, so here goes.

 

I've been experimenting with different timing/doses of Omega-3 to try and get more benefit from it. But pretty much concluded that the dose/time I'd been taking all along was best. I tried a less expensive, yet more potent, liquid version, but found it was too much for me. It had 1375mg EPA/DHA. SO I'm sticking to my 950mg EPA/DHA for now, even though it's more expensive.

 

The feeling in my legs had almost cleared up completely, but today I'm feeling some withdrawal related effects - strange feeling in head, some anxiety and some tension in legs. I suspect this is because I decided to give counting beads a go, instead of weighing them, because I was freaking out a little about my scales again. But I think I've figured it out - it seems to get "stuck" on certain values, e.g. 86mg, and won't move even if I keep adding beads. So what happens is, when I turn it off/on and re-weigh, it gets "unstuck" and jumps to 92mg, for instance. So I just have to keep trying it until it weighs 89mg consistently, which is frustrating, but probably more accurate than counting since the beads are slightly different sizes.

[Skyler]

Haven't updated this in a while, so here goes.

 

I've been experimenting with different timing/doses of Omega-3 to try and get more benefit from it. But pretty much concluded that the dose/time I'd been taking all along was best. I tried a less expensive, yet more potent, liquid version, but found it was too much for me. It had 1375mg EPA/DHA. SO I'm sticking to my 950mg EPA/DHA for now, even though it's more expensive.

 

The feeling in my legs had almost cleared up completely, but today I'm feeling some withdrawal related effects - strange feeling in head, some anxiety and some tension in legs.

 

What brand of Omega-3 was so potent?

 

I was thinking of you last night when the cacophony in my ears picked up yet again. I was cutting the dose ever so cautiously... and still the concert ramped up, so I took a one time higher dose, and will go back to the last notch before the trouble started. It's better again this AM, but I am such a hostage to this crap. UGH. So small a change can cause so much difficulty... will I ever get OFF this crap. Sound like a familiar lament?

[Skyler]

PS... I was also thinking of you because my version of RLS acted up. I got lazy and did not take a magnesium supplement for 3 nights running. Sure enough, the creepy carwlies in my arms came back. Took the mag and they were soon gone.

[jr1985]

 

Haven't updated this in a while, so here goes.

 

I've been experimenting with different timing/doses of Omega-3 to try and get more benefit from it. But pretty much concluded that the dose/time I'd been taking all along was best. I tried a less expensive, yet more potent, liquid version, but found it was too much for me. It had 1375mg EPA/DHA. SO I'm sticking to my 950mg EPA/DHA for now, even though it's more expensive.

 

The feeling in my legs had almost cleared up completely, but today I'm feeling some withdrawal related effects - strange feeling in head, some anxiety and some tension in legs.

 

What brand of Omega-3 was so potent?

 

I was thinking of you last night when the cacophony in my ears picked up yet again. I was cutting the dose ever so cautiously... and still the concert ramped up, so I took a one time higher dose, and will go back to the last notch before the trouble started. It's better again this AM, but I am such a hostage to this crap. UGH. So small a change can cause so much difficulty... will I ever get OFF this crap. Sound like a familiar lament?

 

I bought it from MyProtein.com. Look like they just deliver to Europe though.

 

Yep, definitely! But I think it's important to remember that just because it's difficult making cuts now doesn't mean it will always be. Have you considered holding until your symptoms go away completely?

[jr1985]

PS... I was also thinking of you because my version of RLS acted up. I got lazy and did not take a magnesium supplement for 3 nights running. Sure enough, the creepy carwlies in my arms came back. Took the mag and they were soon gone.

 

I'm glad the magnesium worked for you. It just made me feel strange, but Omega-3 seems to really help!

 

PS. You changed your name!

[jr1985]

Ok, I've been experiencing bouts of withdrawal symptoms this week. I've been woken up in the early morning with my head buzzing with energy, like I'm being overstimulated. At first I thought it was because I've gone from weighing to counting beads, but I've decided to go back to the weighing and it still happened to me today. I woke up at 6am feeling wide awake, with my arms and legs feeling electrified.

 

It might sound silly but the only thing I can think of is that it may be the gel capsules I've started using, because I didn't want to keep wasting the excess beads. I've been taking them on alternate days, so on Tuesday evening I took one and woke up on Wednesday feeling wired, with a weird feeling in my head. Then on Wednesday I took the pink Effexor capsule and woke up on Thursday feeling absolutely fine. Took gel capsule on Thursday evening and was bolted awake at 6am.

 

Both the gel capsules and the pink Effexor capsules contain the same weight of beads, so it might have something to do with the rate they dissolve. To see for myself, I popped one of each in a glass of water - the gel capsule dissolved long before the pink Effexor capsule! It seems like the Effexor capsule is thicker or something. Of course, I do realise stomach acid is completely different to water... But does this sound plausible?

 

Another possible explanation is that the pink Effexor capsules are opaque to protect the beads from light, whereas the gel capsules I bought are transparent. So maybe the beads are being degraded by light? I keep them in a translucent blue pill organiser though.

 

On the plus side, on the days after I took the regular Effexor capsule I felt almost completely normal, which is something I haven't felt in a while.

[Altostrata]

Perhaps you should wait before you take the odd beads.

 

Did they come from the same lot as your current Effexor XR?

[jr1985]

Yes, I'm prescribed 75mg, but since I'm only taking roughly 37.5mg, I was keeping about half of the beads in the Effexor capsule, and storing the remainder in a medicine bottle.

 

This week, instead if storing them, I put the remainder beads (after I'd weighed them to the correct dose of course) in an empty gel capsule. I'm just going to take the beads in the pink Effexor capsule from now on to see if it makes a difference.

[Skyler]

I bought it from MyProtein.com. Look like they just deliver to Europe though.

 

Yep, definitely! But I think it's important to remember that just because it's difficult making cuts now doesn't mean it will always be. Have you considered holding until your symptoms go away completely?

 

I want to get Lyrica to a lower dose because of side effects. Any my doc wants me to get a move on with the diazepam, understandably as I'm so close to free. I'm not sure which I'll go for first as no way can I do both at once.

 

I'm glad the magnesium worked for you. It just made me feel strange, but Omega-3 seems to really help!

 

PS. You changed your name!

 

Yeah, I get a real strong response to magnesium. One small mercy. Glad Omega-3 is helping you.

 

Skyler is easier to use on the forum. Seems like you think so too.

[jr1985]

Don't feel so good today. I thought going back to pink capsules would help, and it seemed to for a few days. But today my head feels heavy, I feel hot and I've been a bit depressed/anxious.

 

It feels similar to how I felt when I forgot my omega-3, so maybe messing around with the dose/timing a week or two ago caused some instability? Or maybe my brain is just rejiggamifying itself.

 

On the plus side, my arms and legs feel fine.

[jr1985]

Oh why am I still having symptoms after holding for so long! Could messing around with omega-3 really destabilise me? Could it be a random wave? I guess no one really knows. It just worries me that I could be doing sometching wrong that's preventing me from healing.

[Skyler]

Oh why am I still having symptoms after holding for so long! Could messing around with omega-3 really destabilise me? Could it be a random wave? I guess no one really knows. It just worries me that I could be doing sometching wrong that's preventing me from healing.

Hi jr... I've been on a 3 month hold again and hear you (well except for the latest 4 mg drop). ARGH And I was doing something wrong. Thing is, for me at any rate, it's such tiny errors that screw me up. So tiny they would not bother most anyone else... except for you as well I think. Not the same errors, but it's almost like if we breathe out of the wrong side of our mouths, the symptoms get worse. Gosh jr, it's worse for you than me, but not so far removed.

 

My latest... I tried to shave 4 mgs too much from 188 mgs of Lyrica. Not injudicious mind you... but enough. 2 weeks of ringing ears. And I realized the real culprit was not using the 1 mg syringe to measure the smaller drops (The 5 cc syringe that will let me measure a 2 mg reduction.. but not smaller.) It's a pain to use TWO syringes for the one medication (I'm on 3.. so that's FOUR syringes FOUR times a day!). So for this, there was an underlying factor... but gee whiz. Such a tiny transgression. So don't flagellate yourself...sadly, it's easier for us to mess up than not.

 

Can you forget the taper... stop rating the symptoms? Kind of put it on the back burner and let it crank away by itself. Otherwise we risk going a tad nuts with this whole business.

 

Hang in there mon ami... IT WILL IMPROVE!

 

JR.. Merry Christmas