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Ichabod: Could somebody help? Amitriptyline and Klonopin

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Ichabod
Posted (edited)

Admin note: link to benzo forum thread Ichabod: Could somebody help? Benzo problems

 

Hello guys, I am new here. I do apologise in advance for my English (I am italian). I would prefer not to bother you with my personal experience as it is probably similar to many others you got across, but I d need some encouragement because I am alone in this struggle.

Briefly... I went on Paroxetine ten years ago for panic attacks. It helped but the side effects were brutal. I tried many times to quit it but I experienced all the withdrawal symptoms that my doctor confused with relapse and that scared me to hell and he always put me back on it. Two years ago I met a girl I felt in love with and I decided to quit it once for all, no matter what (primarily because of the sexual side effects). I asked my doctor to help me and he said to come off of it in a month (like I did the other times). I tried it again but what I felt was overwhelming. So I decided to do it by myself tapering slowly using a liquid form. It took me 7 months of pain but I really didn't know what to do and I couldn't find anybody to help while my doctor continued saying to go back on it. I felt really debilitated but after I finished tapering I noticed I was still in prolonged withdrawal. That was a shock because I was always reassured that once the drug was out of my body I would have been ok. I took my last dose on july 2019. I kept using klonopin as prescribed but I noticed I was really sick. Finally, in january, after a lot of research I found Professor Giovanni Fava who told me that I was in post acute withdrawal syndrome. It was a sort of relief being validated finally but also terrifying. I started researching and what I found out was shocking...people in withdrawal for years, pssd... it was to much.

I started thinking about suicide. I was in a really bad place. Giovanni Fava's plan is to help me get rid of all this addiction so he put me on 5mg of amitriptyline in order to stabilize the situation a little bit while tapering klonopin. Then he will take me off amitriptyline . I am writing you in order to ask some encouragement and reassurance because I am completely alone (I have no family) and I don't know how long my girlfriend will stay by my side (she is getting tired of seeing me sick and she would like to plan a future. I don't blame her... plus, sex is pretty bad. I had moments when it was great followed by long periods of time when it was non existent. I don't function like I did and I really don't know if this is pssd or still withdrawal and if I will ever get back to normal). I feel betrayed by the modern medicine... if I knew what could have happened I would have never took Paxil in the first place. I came across this website and decided to write you in order to find some tips on how to go on in life and to ask you if it will ever get better. For sure I developed now sone sort of ptsd.

Sorry I bothered and thank you in advance.

Edited by Shep
added link to benzo forum thread

Paxil 20mg from July 2011 to july 2019. Paws.

Xanax 1 mg July 2011 to 27th January 2020.

Klonopin 0.5mg since 28th january 2020.

Amitriptyline 10 mg 28th April/21 May 2020

Klonopin changing in schedule:

-21st May: 0.2mg at 8p.m. and 0.3mg at 9p.m.

-22nd May: 0.2mg at 7p.m. and 0.3mg at 9p.m.

-23rd May: 0.2mg at 6p.m. and 0.3mg at 9p.m.

-24th May: 0.2mg at 5p.m. and 0.3mg at 9p.m.

-25th May: 0.2mg at 4p.m. and 0.3mg at 9p.m.

 

 

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brassmonkey

Hi Ichabod-- Welcome to SA, I just found your post here.  I can agree with what Dr Fava has said, that you probably have PAWS. It is quite common in people who have tapered too fast, but it can be worked through and recovered from.

 

This thread is in a hard place to find. It would be a good idea for you to start a personal thread in the Introductions forum.  That is most visible and you'll get the best help there. It will become your personal thread to use to ask questions, keep notes and meet other members.

 

Again Welcome to the group,

 

Brassmonkey


20 years on Paxil starting at 20mg and working up to 40mg. Sept 2011 started 10% every 6 weeks taper (2.5% every week for 4 weeks then hold for 2 additional weeks), currently at 7.9mg. Oct 2011 CTed 15oz vodka a night, to only drinking 2 beers most nights, totally sober Feb 2013.

Since I wrote this I have continued to decrease my dose by 10% every 6 weeks (2.5% every week for 4 weeks and then hold for an additional 2 weeks). I added in an extra 6 week hold when I hit 10mg to let things settle out even more. When I hit 3mgpw it became hard to split the drop into 4 parts so I switched to dropping 1mgpw (pill weight) every week for 3 weeks and then holding for another 3 weeks.  The 3 + 3 schedule turned out to be too harsh so I cut back to dropping 1mgpw every 4 weeks which is working better.

Current dose 0.000mg 04-15-2017

 

"It's also important not to become angry, no matter how difficult life is, because you can loose all hope if you can't laugh at yourself and at life in general."  Stephen Hawking

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Ichabod

Thank you for your reply. I don't know where that is. Could you send a link? Sorry I m not so good navigating on this site.


Paxil 20mg from July 2011 to july 2019. Paws.

Xanax 1 mg July 2011 to 27th January 2020.

Klonopin 0.5mg since 28th january 2020.

Amitriptyline 10 mg 28th April/21 May 2020

Klonopin changing in schedule:

-21st May: 0.2mg at 8p.m. and 0.3mg at 9p.m.

-22nd May: 0.2mg at 7p.m. and 0.3mg at 9p.m.

-23rd May: 0.2mg at 6p.m. and 0.3mg at 9p.m.

-24th May: 0.2mg at 5p.m. and 0.3mg at 9p.m.

-25th May: 0.2mg at 4p.m. and 0.3mg at 9p.m.

 

 

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Ichabod
Posted (edited)

Admin note:  link to Ichabod's benzo forum thread - Ichabod: Could somebody help?

Ichabod

 

Hello guys, I am new here. I do apologise in advance for my English (I am italian). I would prefer not to bother you with my personal experience as it is probably similar to many others you got across, but I d need some encouragement because I am alone in this struggle.

Briefly... I went on Paroxetine ten years ago for panic attacks. It helped but the side effects were brutal. I tried many times to quit it but I experienced all the withdrawal symptoms that my doctor confused with relapse and that scared me to hell and he always put me back on it. Two years ago I met a girl I felt in love with and I decided to quit it once for all, no matter what (primarily because of the sexual side effects). I asked my doctor to help me and he said to come off of it in a month (like I did the other times). I tried it again but what I felt was overwhelming. So I decided to do it by myself tapering slowly using a liquid form. It took me 7 months of pain but I really didn't know what to do and I couldn't find anybody to help while my doctor continued saying to go back on it. I felt really debilitated but after I finished tapering I noticed I was still in prolonged withdrawal. That was a shock because I was always reassured that once the drug was out of my body I would have been ok. I took my last dose on july 2019. I kept using klonopin as prescribed but I noticed I was really sick. Finally, in january, after a lot of research I found Professor Giovanni Fava who told me that I was in post acute withdrawal syndrome. It was a sort of relief being validated finally but also terrifying. I started researching and what I found out was shocking...people in withdrawal for years, pssd... it was to much.

I started thinking about suicide. I was in a really bad place. Giovanni Fava's plan is to help me get rid of all this addiction so he put me on 5mg of amitriptyline in order to stabilize the situation a little bit while tapering klonopin. Then he will take me off amitriptyline . I am writing you in order to ask some encouragement and reassurance because I am completely alone (I have no family) and I don't know how long my girlfriend will stay by my side (she is getting tired of seeing me sick and she would like to plan a future. I don't blame her... plus, sex is pretty bad. I had moments when it was great followed by long periods of time when it was non existent. I don't function like I did and I really don't know if this is pssd or still withdrawal and if I will ever get back to normal). I feel betrayed by the modern medicine... if I knew what could have happened I would have never took Paxil in the first place. I came across this website and decided to write you in order to find some tips on how to go on in life and to ask you if it will ever get better. For sure I developed now sone sort of ptsd.

Sorry I bothered and thank you in advance.

   

 

Edited by Shep
add link to benzo forum thread

Paxil 20mg from July 2011 to july 2019. Paws.

Xanax 1 mg July 2011 to 27th January 2020.

Klonopin 0.5mg since 28th january 2020.

Amitriptyline 10 mg 28th April/21 May 2020

Klonopin changing in schedule:

-21st May: 0.2mg at 8p.m. and 0.3mg at 9p.m.

-22nd May: 0.2mg at 7p.m. and 0.3mg at 9p.m.

-23rd May: 0.2mg at 6p.m. and 0.3mg at 9p.m.

-24th May: 0.2mg at 5p.m. and 0.3mg at 9p.m.

-25th May: 0.2mg at 4p.m. and 0.3mg at 9p.m.

 

 

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Gridley
Posted (edited)

Welcome to SA, Ichabod.

 

First of all, some encouragement.  You will heal.  You will recover.  It will take some time, but it will happen, and you will be a stronger person because of it.  It is our xxexperience that we all heal.  A good source of encouragement is our "Success Stories" forum.

 

Success stories: Recovery from withdrawal

 

You were fortunate to find Professor Fava, who is knowledgeable about withdrawal.  It's a very good sign that you're still functioning sexually, even if not the way you used to.

 

So that you have a better idea of what you're experiencing, here is some information on withdrawal and the healing process.

Protracted Withdrawal or PAWS (post-acute withdrawal  

What is withdrawal syndrome.

Daily Checklist of Antidepressant Withdrawal Symptoms (PDF) 

The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilizatio

These explain the healing process very well.

 

Video:  Healing From Antidepressants - Patterns of Recovery

 

   On 8/30/2011 at 2:28 PM,  Rhiannon said: 
When we stop taking the drug, we have a brain that has designed itself so that it works in the presence of the drug; now it can't work properly without the drug because it's designed itself so that the drug is part of its chemistry and structure. It's like a plant that has grown on a trellis; you can't just yank out the trellis and expect the plant to be okay. When the drug is removed, the remodeling process has to take place in reverse. SO--it's not a matter of just getting the drug out of your system and moving on. If it were that simple, none of us would be here. It's a matter of, as I describe it, having to grow a new brain. I believe this growing-a-new-brain happens throughout the taper process if the taper is slow enough. (If it's too fast, then there's not a lot of time for actually rebalancing things, and basically the brain is just pedaling fast trying to keep us alive.) It also continues to happen, probably for longer than the symptoms actually last, throughout the time of recovery after we are completely off the drug, which is why recovery takes so long.

 

We don't recommend a lot of supplements on SA, as many members report being sensitive to them due to our over-reactive nervous systems, but two supplements that we do recommend are magnesium (glycinate is a good form) and omega 3 (fish oil). Many people find these to be calming to the nervous system. 

 

 

 

Add in one at a time and at a low dose in case you do experience problems.
 
This is your Introduction topic, where you can ask questions and connect with other members.  We're glad you found your way here.
 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Gridley

Gridley Introduction

 

Lexapro 20 mg since 2004.  Began taper using Brassmonkey slide Jan. 2017.   

End 2017 year 1 of taper at 9.25mg 

End 2018 year 2 of taper at 4.1mg

End 2019 year 3 of taper at 1.0mg  

Current from Oct. 21, 2020 at 0.025mg

Taper is 99.875% complete.

 

Lorazepam 1 mg 1986-1991 CT, resumed a few months later. CT 2000.  1 mg 2011-2016.  Sept, 2016 increased to 0.5 X 3 in split dose. Sept. 2019 increased to 0.625 X 3 after crossover to new brand

 

Imipramine 75 mg daily since 1986.  Jan. 2016 began every 3-weeks 10% taper, down to 15mg.  Aug 2016, discovered SA, updosed to 25mg and holding.  Taper is 66% complete.  

  

Supplements: omega, vitamins E and D3, magnesium glycinate, probiotic, melatonin .3mg


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice, but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

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brassmonkey

20 years on Paxil starting at 20mg and working up to 40mg. Sept 2011 started 10% every 6 weeks taper (2.5% every week for 4 weeks then hold for 2 additional weeks), currently at 7.9mg. Oct 2011 CTed 15oz vodka a night, to only drinking 2 beers most nights, totally sober Feb 2013.

Since I wrote this I have continued to decrease my dose by 10% every 6 weeks (2.5% every week for 4 weeks and then hold for an additional 2 weeks). I added in an extra 6 week hold when I hit 10mg to let things settle out even more. When I hit 3mgpw it became hard to split the drop into 4 parts so I switched to dropping 1mgpw (pill weight) every week for 3 weeks and then holding for another 3 weeks.  The 3 + 3 schedule turned out to be too harsh so I cut back to dropping 1mgpw every 4 weeks which is working better.

Current dose 0.000mg 04-15-2017

 

"It's also important not to become angry, no matter how difficult life is, because you can loose all hope if you can't laugh at yourself and at life in general."  Stephen Hawking

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Ichabod

Hello Gridley, thank you for your reply and for all the links you posted which I am starting to read. I didn't know my tapering was too fast anyway because nobody was there to help and I didn't find resources like this site when I was doing it. I just believed that something was wrong with me: as my doctor said to discontinue so rapidly I felt ashamed I was not able to do that and I thought I was doing it really slowly. Too bad I didn't know back then anything about withdrawal. I don't know where I am at this moment. I am feeling a nearly persistent chemical nausea and overall I m feeling poisoned. I knew, I really knew this was not depression and nobody believed me. Being isolated is too bad.

The sexual function is not really ok: I can't really get excited. In order to do that I have to concentrate a lot and after some intercourse I need to rest for a long time and btw I feel there is something really wrong (if you kiss your loved one and you can't get excited it's depressing...infact I can't rely on the idea that my loved one will be there forever. Out there there are so many people with no problems and it would be natural for her to move on). Pssd scares me a lot. Of course there is no one who could tell me if I will heal in that department or if I will be like this forever. I feel no sexual excitement and who knows if I will ever be' normali again. Along with that I am feeling anedhonia and extreme fatigue. I am feeling disable.  I have a lot of the sensations posted in the withdrawal project website and I feel my healing will be really long. Jeez I have to do that all by myself. I would give an arm to be me again, the old me anxious I miss so much.  In your opinion adding that low dose of amitriptyline will interfere with the healing? I also read benzobuddies.org and that was frightening because I also have to get rid of klonopin and I am worried about that withdrawal either. Yeah...I don't like where I am right now :(

(I am already taking vitamins,  magnesium and omega 3... at least it seems I am doing something right ;) )


Paxil 20mg from July 2011 to july 2019. Paws.

Xanax 1 mg July 2011 to 27th January 2020.

Klonopin 0.5mg since 28th january 2020.

Amitriptyline 10 mg 28th April/21 May 2020

Klonopin changing in schedule:

-21st May: 0.2mg at 8p.m. and 0.3mg at 9p.m.

-22nd May: 0.2mg at 7p.m. and 0.3mg at 9p.m.

-23rd May: 0.2mg at 6p.m. and 0.3mg at 9p.m.

-24th May: 0.2mg at 5p.m. and 0.3mg at 9p.m.

-25th May: 0.2mg at 4p.m. and 0.3mg at 9p.m.

 

 

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Gridley
Posted (edited)

@Ichabod Ichabod, you have already posted in the Introduction section, and I have responded.  Your post is here and the link below..  Click on the link and it will take you there.

Ichabod: Could somebody help?

This link is where you should post your questions and updates.

Edited by Gridley

Gridley Introduction

 

Lexapro 20 mg since 2004.  Began taper using Brassmonkey slide Jan. 2017.   

End 2017 year 1 of taper at 9.25mg 

End 2018 year 2 of taper at 4.1mg

End 2019 year 3 of taper at 1.0mg  

Current from Oct. 21, 2020 at 0.025mg

Taper is 99.875% complete.

 

Lorazepam 1 mg 1986-1991 CT, resumed a few months later. CT 2000.  1 mg 2011-2016.  Sept, 2016 increased to 0.5 X 3 in split dose. Sept. 2019 increased to 0.625 X 3 after crossover to new brand

 

Imipramine 75 mg daily since 1986.  Jan. 2016 began every 3-weeks 10% taper, down to 15mg.  Aug 2016, discovered SA, updosed to 25mg and holding.  Taper is 66% complete.  

  

Supplements: omega, vitamins E and D3, magnesium glycinate, probiotic, melatonin .3mg


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice, but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

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Ichabod

Hi Gridley,thanks. I managed to get there. Sorry about that


Paxil 20mg from July 2011 to july 2019. Paws.

Xanax 1 mg July 2011 to 27th January 2020.

Klonopin 0.5mg since 28th january 2020.

Amitriptyline 10 mg 28th April/21 May 2020

Klonopin changing in schedule:

-21st May: 0.2mg at 8p.m. and 0.3mg at 9p.m.

-22nd May: 0.2mg at 7p.m. and 0.3mg at 9p.m.

-23rd May: 0.2mg at 6p.m. and 0.3mg at 9p.m.

-24th May: 0.2mg at 5p.m. and 0.3mg at 9p.m.

-25th May: 0.2mg at 4p.m. and 0.3mg at 9p.m.

 

 

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Gridley
4 hours ago, Ichabod said:

Of course there is no one who could tell me if I will heal in that department or if I will be like this forever.

 

It has been our experience on this site the you will heal, including the pssd.

 

4 hours ago, Ichabod said:

Along with that I am feeling anedhonia and extreme fatigue. I am feeling disable. 

 

This is very typical of withdrawal.  

 

4 hours ago, Ichabod said:

I feel my healing will be really long.

There is no way to predict how long it will take.  It would be better to think that every day is a step toward more healing and that healing in going on constantly.

 

4 hours ago, Ichabod said:

In your opinion adding that low dose of amitriptyline will interfere with the healing?

 

I don't want to interfere with Dr. Fava's treatment.   

 

 

 

 


Gridley Introduction

 

Lexapro 20 mg since 2004.  Began taper using Brassmonkey slide Jan. 2017.   

End 2017 year 1 of taper at 9.25mg 

End 2018 year 2 of taper at 4.1mg

End 2019 year 3 of taper at 1.0mg  

Current from Oct. 21, 2020 at 0.025mg

Taper is 99.875% complete.

 

Lorazepam 1 mg 1986-1991 CT, resumed a few months later. CT 2000.  1 mg 2011-2016.  Sept, 2016 increased to 0.5 X 3 in split dose. Sept. 2019 increased to 0.625 X 3 after crossover to new brand

 

Imipramine 75 mg daily since 1986.  Jan. 2016 began every 3-weeks 10% taper, down to 15mg.  Aug 2016, discovered SA, updosed to 25mg and holding.  Taper is 66% complete.  

  

Supplements: omega, vitamins E and D3, magnesium glycinate, probiotic, melatonin .3mg


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice, but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

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Ichabod

Hello Gridley, yes, I guess I ll have to try my best to stay calm during rough times and only time can heal. I appreciate your suggestions. As for my question about amitriptyline don't get me wrong, I will stay on this prescription of Dr Fava as I need some rest,I guess. I was only asking your opinion regarding this: do you think it will interfere with the natural healing process of the brain? Or it would be maybe beneficial in order to counteract the effects of paws from paxil? My humble opinion is that it might be helpfull for now but then I will have to break free from it with a slow taper. Of course I ll keep taking it until dr Fava will say so as the first thing I have to do is getting rid of rivotril (I know it will take long for that to happen and I will follow Fava's plans). And yes... I am scared it could be harmfull even at that low dose for my sexual functioning, though in a less severe way than Paxil.

Anyway I ve read some stories in this forum about people being exposed for lot less time than me to ssri/snri and having withdrawal lasting 3 or more years. Of course everybody is different but... 😥


Paxil 20mg from July 2011 to july 2019. Paws.

Xanax 1 mg July 2011 to 27th January 2020.

Klonopin 0.5mg since 28th january 2020.

Amitriptyline 10 mg 28th April/21 May 2020

Klonopin changing in schedule:

-21st May: 0.2mg at 8p.m. and 0.3mg at 9p.m.

-22nd May: 0.2mg at 7p.m. and 0.3mg at 9p.m.

-23rd May: 0.2mg at 6p.m. and 0.3mg at 9p.m.

-24th May: 0.2mg at 5p.m. and 0.3mg at 9p.m.

-25th May: 0.2mg at 4p.m. and 0.3mg at 9p.m.

 

 

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Altostrata

Hello, Ichabod. How have your symptoms changed since you started amitriptyline 9 days ago?


This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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Ichabod

Hi Altostrata, thank you for asking. I am feeling a more calm overall. The quality of my sleep has improved but not the amount of sleep.

I know you could be again the fact that dr Fava added amitriptyline but especially in december I was in hell. As I said before I didn't even know that i tapered paxil too fast (I thought I was going slow, given the information of my previous doctor who said to taper it in one month). I did it in 8 months or so. But I was really stupid. While on paxil I didn't even understand I was not myself anymore. It took me falling in love to make me understand that I wanted to get rid of it (no help given). So dr Fava told me then that I developed PAWS and asked what I was taking and by the time I got in contact with him I was only on xanax. So he switched me ti klonopin in order to start tapering now and decided to add amitryptiline reassuring that once I ll taper that too it would be slowly and that amitriptyline is a lot easier than paxil. I have to trust somebody and I think you can understand it. Plus I added it because I had to go through the loss of a close friend and I was tired of suffering. I ve also been at the hospital last month for 4 days (a little ulcer) and the doctors forgot to give me klonopin so by the 4th day I felt like ****. I told doctor Fava along with the other problems klonopin was giving me and he said it was time to start tapering. And I agree because of the lockdown and more time to take care of myself. I only want to do that slower. That s all.

 


Paxil 20mg from July 2011 to july 2019. Paws.

Xanax 1 mg July 2011 to 27th January 2020.

Klonopin 0.5mg since 28th january 2020.

Amitriptyline 10 mg 28th April/21 May 2020

Klonopin changing in schedule:

-21st May: 0.2mg at 8p.m. and 0.3mg at 9p.m.

-22nd May: 0.2mg at 7p.m. and 0.3mg at 9p.m.

-23rd May: 0.2mg at 6p.m. and 0.3mg at 9p.m.

-24th May: 0.2mg at 5p.m. and 0.3mg at 9p.m.

-25th May: 0.2mg at 4p.m. and 0.3mg at 9p.m.

 

 

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Altostrata

As it appears amitriptyline is helping with the Paxil PAWS, we can address the Klonopin dosing issues in the Benzo forum.


This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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Ichabod

Thank you Altostrata. Of course I could "lie" to my doctor saying I reduced the amount of drug he asked me to, reducing it slower instead but I really need to start doing it because I feel that 0.5mg is way too much for me.

I must say though that how I feel in the morning is nearly the same I've always felt even before taking klonopin. I don't know if that is related to the klonopin or to paxil withdrawal. Anyway doctor Fava doesnt want me to increase amitriptyline. He just want me to start tapering klonopin and I should start the day after tomorrow with a reduction Shep doesn't recommend. That is why I am asking here to help me reducing a 10% dose


Paxil 20mg from July 2011 to july 2019. Paws.

Xanax 1 mg July 2011 to 27th January 2020.

Klonopin 0.5mg since 28th january 2020.

Amitriptyline 10 mg 28th April/21 May 2020

Klonopin changing in schedule:

-21st May: 0.2mg at 8p.m. and 0.3mg at 9p.m.

-22nd May: 0.2mg at 7p.m. and 0.3mg at 9p.m.

-23rd May: 0.2mg at 6p.m. and 0.3mg at 9p.m.

-24th May: 0.2mg at 5p.m. and 0.3mg at 9p.m.

-25th May: 0.2mg at 4p.m. and 0.3mg at 9p.m.

 

 

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Shep
16 hours ago, Ichabod said:

He just want me to start tapering klonopin and I should start the day after tomorrow with a reduction Shep doesn't recommend. That is why I am asking here to help me reducing a 10% dose

 

Ichabod, please note we work as a team here, so please keep posting in your benzo forum. Other mods have already weighed in over there and I've left instructions for preparing a liquid taper. 


Drug free May 22, 2015 after 30 years of neuroleptics, benzos, z-drugs, so-called "anti"-depressants, and amphetamines 

 

My Success Story:  Shep's Success: "Leaving Plato's Cave"

 

And what is good, Phaedrus, and what is not good — need we ask anyone to tell us these things? ~ Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice, but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

 

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