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Teppo125: Adverse reaction?

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Teppo125
Posted (edited)

Teppo125

 

Hi you all!

This is my first post here, but I have been here and reading stuff for many months. Sorry for my poor english, but maybe you will understand.

I had many adversities in 2018-2019 and I began to have panic attacks, chest pains and air hunger. I had all of these in 2012 as well, but I was checked and there was nothing wrong with me. The panic attacks and chest pains all got away in a few months. 

I went to the private doctor which we had because of our job. And he recommended for me to go to the psychologist. The psychologist said that he recommends me to seek psychotherapist, because of my illness. Well I didn't do anything and the panic attacks didn't go away. I had to call an ambulance two times and they took me to the ER both times because I thought I was going to die. I went to the psychologist again and I told him that I would like to get some medications started. He said that he doesn't recommend medication, because I would start to trust the medication and it could be hard to stop (Oh how right he was..).

Well I didn't seek a psychotherapist, but I went to the public hospital, because I wanted the medication, because I thought it would help. I called the psychiatric nurse and after the first appointment she sent me to the doctor and mid july in 2019 I was prescribed Escitalopram (Lexapro I think in you're language) 10mg/day.

First week 2,5mg.

Second week 5mg.

And then 10mg. 

After first week psychiatric nurse wanted to see me and asked how I was doing. I was doing better, but I started to have some mild suicidal thoughts. What I never had before. We didn't notice them at all. At second week the thoughts became louder. Then I lifted the dose to 10mg and after a few days it wasn't only thoughts, but also  suicidal behavior. I couldn't think anything else, only that that I'm going to kill myself. I noticed that something was very very wrong. I thought that the same goes for me what my cousin did earlier in the year, because he was deeply depressed and committed suicide. I was diagnosed mild depression and I had those horrible thoughts. I called the nurse and I wanted too se her. At this point the nurse was changed to another person. The previous nurse was only temporary and the right nurse came back from vacation. She didn't know at all what had happened to me, and neither did I. I didn't know that this DRUG could cause this kind of stuff. Also I am pretty good at sleeping and with this drug I had major sleeping troubles. Then we lowered the dose to 5mg and it helped a lot. Thoughts were still there, but I continued eating them and continued my life. I played football and another sports in the summer, but the thoughts were still there all the time. After 8 weeks(I think) I recognize that when I watched a mirror, I became to hate my self. Then I decided to call the nurse and I told her that I want quit this medication, because I was not feeling good with this drug. She said that I'm now fearing the drug and she doesn't want that I quit the escitalopram. Well, after a long conversation she gave me permission to stop the drug and I could do it cold turkey, because such a low dose and I haven't ate it a long time. And you all know what happened then. But I didn't. I have never before ate any drugs. Only ibuprofen for hangovers some times.

I quit the medication propably mid september and I feel pretty good. But after 1,5 - 2 weeks I was thrown behind the hell. And the hell last, it last enormously long time.

After two weeks of quitting the drug my girlfriend told me to go privat psychotherapist, because I felt so awful. I though that I am insane that I have tilted some way 😃 (I can laugh sometimes now). The psychotherapist said that it is almost impossible that you are insane, because you are too old to become lunatic and it happens almost every time in 20's or earlier(I'm 30 years now). That helped a little bit.

After 4 months of quitting CT, I went to psychiatric and told her what I was going throw. She said that the drug(withdrawal) couldn't be anymore the reason how I felt and prescribe me ketiapine (Qetiapin maybe in English?) for that enormous anxiety what I have. But she also said that just last year people and media are been talking about those side effects and withdrawal in Finland caused by antidepressants. I crashed. I didn't want to live anymore, because my life was awful hell. And it wasn't the withdrawal anymore. I took that ketiapin for month or two 12,5 mg or less for sleeping and anxiety and then I quit it, because I don't want eat any drugs anymore EVER.

But somehow I find a group at Facebook. It was Finnish(I'm Finnish also)group about SSRI withdrawal and I noticed that maybe I'm not a lunatic. And then I found there also this site. I also went back to another psychotherapist after 5 months of cold turkey and she said that my biggest problem was the drug withdrawal. I wasn't insane because that couldn't be possible. Or it could be possible, but there should be some sings before if I was for example scitzofrenic or bibolar. I was happier than ever. I continued the therapy which is conditional behavioral psychotherapy. Now I'm almost 8 months free of the drug. I'm not fine, but I think that I survive this.

This is not a success story yet, but I write that too then when I'm firmly on my feet. If anyone could help me somehow what I should do in this withdrawal please leave me a comment. Or is it only time what heels me?

Edited by Gridley

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Gridley
Posted (edited)

Welcome to SA, Teppo.  Congratulations on being drug-free.  Your English is fine.

 

You sound like you're doing well.  You're fortunate to find a doctor who recognizes withdrawal.  Most doctors don't.  So that you have a better idea of what you have been experiencing, here is some information on withdrawal and healing.

 

What is withdrawal syndrome.

 

Daily Checklist of Antidepressant Withdrawal Symptoms (PDF) 

 

When we take psychiatric medications, the CNS (central nervous system) responds by making changes over the months and years we take the drug(s). When the medication is discontinued, the CNS has to undo all the changes it made. Rebuilding the neurotransmitter production and reactivating the receptor and transporter cells takes time -- during that rebuilding process symptoms occur.  

 

Video:  Healing From Antidepressants - Patterns of Recovery

 

We don't recommend a lot of supplements on SA, as many members report being sensitive to them due to our over-reactive nervous systems, but two supplements that we do recommend are magnesium (glycinate is a good form) and omega 3 (fish oil). Many people find these to be calming to the nervous system. 

 

Magnesium, nature's calcium channel blocker 

 

Omega-3 fatty acids (fish oil) 

 

Add in one at a time and at a low dose in case you do experience problems.

 

This is your Introduction topic, where you can ask questions and connect with other members.  We're glad you found your way here.

 

Edited by Gridley

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Teppo125

Thanks Gridley!

 

Yeah, after six months of being drug free, my evenings came a lot better and I also started to sleep better. All the symptoms also started to fade away, but yes they are still with me. I think that every month seems to be a little better than the previous month. I'm still pretty exhausted, for those symptoms, but I've started to exercise a little bit. Not running, but walking and throwing disc golf. I'm decided that I'm not gonna play football this summer although the coach said that they needed me, but I just can't. I'm still surviving at this withdrawal.

And I also not put my symptoms here, because we everyone know what they have been in severe withdrawal. It's just pure hell and they narrows our lifes a lot, at least my own.

Lets hope that symptoms fade away after this year and I have my life back!

And yes I think that withdrawal is the worst thing in everyones life what we have to survive trough.

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Gridley
54 minutes ago, Teppo125 said:

I'm not gonna play football this summer

 

I think that's wise.  Strenuous exercise doing withdrawal can be overstimulating.  The other day I pushed it a little too hard and felt more symptoms for a few hours afterward.

 

55 minutes ago, Teppo125 said:

All the symptoms also started to fade away,

 

Again, that's a very encouraging sign of healing.

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Teppo125

I did’t remember to tell that I’m taking Esomeprazol 40mg/day for my gastroesophageal reflux disease. Does it anything to do with the withdrawal?

I’m taking it just because of the withdrawal, because the stress is so powerful now and I think that I could stop it when the WD is over.

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masa998899
Posted (edited)
On 5/12/2020 at 5:18 PM, Teppo125 said:

Teppo125

 

Hi you all!

This is my first post here, but I have been here and reading stuff for many months. Sorry for my poor english, but maybe you will understand.

I had many adversities in 2018-2019 and I began to have panic attacks, chest pains and air hunger. I had all of these in 2012 as well, but I was checked and there was nothing wrong with me. The panic attacks and chest pains all got away in a few months. 

I went to the private doctor which we had because of our job. And he recommended for me to go to the psychologist. The psychologist said that he recommends me to seek psychotherapist, because of my illness. Well I didn't do anything and the panic attacks didn't go away. I had to call an ambulance two times and they took me to the ER both times because I thought I was going to die. I went to the psychologist again and I told him that I would like to get some medications started. He said that he doesn't recommend medication, because I would start to trust the medication and it could be hard to stop (Oh how right he was..).

Well I didn't seek a psychotherapist, but I went to the public hospital, because I wanted the medication, because I thought it would help. I called the psychiatric nurse and after the first appointment she sent me to the doctor and mid july in 2019 I was prescribed Escitalopram (Lexapro I think in you're language) 10mg/day.

First week 2,5mg.

Second week 5mg.

And then 10mg. 

After first week psychiatric nurse wanted to see me and asked how I was doing. I was doing better, but I started to have some mild suicidal thoughts. What I never had before. We didn't notice them at all. At second week the thoughts became louder. Then I lifted the dose to 10mg and after a few days it wasn't only thoughts, but also  suicidal behavior. I couldn't think anything else, only that that I'm going to kill myself. I noticed that something was very very wrong. I thought that the same goes for me what my cousin did earlier in the year, because he was deeply depressed and committed suicide. I was diagnosed mild depression and I had those horrible thoughts. I called the nurse and I wanted too se her. At this point the nurse was changed to another person. The previous nurse was only temporary and the right nurse came back from vacation. She didn't know at all what had happened to me, and neither did I. I didn't know that this DRUG could cause this kind of stuff. Also I am pretty good at sleeping and with this drug I had major sleeping troubles. Then we lowered the dose to 5mg and it helped a lot. Thoughts were still there, but I continued eating them and continued my life. I played football and another sports in the summer, but the thoughts were still there all the time. After 8 weeks(I think) I recognize that when I watched a mirror, I became to hate my self. Then I decided to call the nurse and I told her that I want quit this medication, because I was not feeling good with this drug. She said that I'm now fearing the drug and she doesn't want that I quit the escitalopram. Well, after a long conversation she gave me permission to stop the drug and I could do it cold turkey, because such a low dose and I haven't ate it a long time. And you all know what happened then. But I didn't. I have never before ate any drugs. Only ibuprofen for hangovers some times.

I quit the medication propably mid september and I feel pretty good. But after 1,5 - 2 weeks I was thrown behind the hell. And the hell last, it last enormously long time.

After two weeks of quitting the drug my girlfriend told me to go privat psychotherapist, because I felt so awful. I though that I am insane that I have tilted some way 😃 (I can laugh sometimes now). The psychotherapist said that it is almost impossible that you are insane, because you are too old to become lunatic and it happens almost every time in 20's or earlier(I'm 30 years now). That helped a little bit.

After 4 months of quitting CT, I went to psychiatric and told her what I was going throw. She said that the drug(withdrawal) couldn't be anymore the reason how I felt and prescribe me ketiapine (Qetiapin maybe in English?) for that enormous anxiety what I have. But she also said that just last year people and media are been talking about those side effects and withdrawal in Finland caused by antidepressants. I crashed. I didn't want to live anymore, because my life was awful hell. And it wasn't the withdrawal anymore. I took that ketiapin for month or two 12,5 mg or less for sleeping and anxiety and then I quit it, because I don't want eat any drugs anymore EVER.

But somehow I find a group at Facebook. It was Finnish(I'm Finnish also)group about SSRI withdrawal and I noticed that maybe I'm not a lunatic. And then I found there also this site. I also went back to another psychotherapist after 5 months of cold turkey and she said that my biggest problem was the drug withdrawal. I wasn't insane because that couldn't be possible. Or it could be possible, but there should be some sings before if I was for example scitzofrenic or bibolar. I was happier than ever. I continued the therapy which is conditional behavioral psychotherapy. Now I'm almost 8 months free of the drug. I'm not fine, but I think that I survive this.

This is not a success story yet, but I write that too then when I'm firmly on my feet. If anyone could help me somehow what I should do in this withdrawal please leave me a comment. Or is it only time what heels me?

Terve. 

 

Luulisin että ei löydy mitään kepulikonstia tähän vaivaan. Itse olen ollut nyt 1,5 vuotta kuivilla. Henkisesti oon paremmassa tasapainossa. Lievää masennusta on mutta se johtuu enemmänkin näistä kaikista sivuoireista ja huonosta olosta. Oon yrittänyt ruokavalio juttuja ja liikuntaa ja ties mitä mutta luulempa että aika on ainut asia mikä parantaa. Alkoholia en käytä ollenkaan ja yritän välttää sokereita. Nämä auttaa minusta asiaan. Toinen hyvä ois liikunta siten miten voimat riittää. Itse oon yrittänyt pyöräillä mutta lihasheikkous ja kivut tahtoo olla liian suuria. Yritin niinkin erikoista juttua kun kanamunien syönti raakana. Tästä oli mielestäni aluksi apua mielialoihin mutta se alkoi lopulta nostattaa kolesterolia liikaa. Saattoi olla myös blacebo vaikutus.

 

Mun taustat on 11 vuotta citalopramia 20mg annoksella paniikkihäiriöön. 2 epäonnistunutta lopetusyritystä. Nyt kolmas kerta menossa ja en aio koskaan nappia suuhuni laittaa. Mulla on väsymystä, unettomuutta, päänsärkyjä, refluksia, lihassärkyjä, lihasheikkoutta, keskittymishäiriöitä, vihapuuskia, joskus itkukohtauksia aivan yhtäkkiä ilman syytä. Välistä on hyviäkin päiviä että oon tuntenut jo olevani ihminen. Näitä on ollu muutama päivä vuodesta. Pitää koittaa pitää lippu korkealla ja oon yrittäny kavereille selittää mitä käyn nyt läpi niin että ne ymmärtäis. Multa on tyttökaveri lähteny tämän vaivan vuoksi ja monta työpaikkaa menny. Nyt jäin työttömäksi coronan vuoksi mutta oon liian väsynyt että jaksais etsiä uutta työpaikkaa. Voidaan vaihtaa kuulumisia privaviestillä jos kiinnostaa. Onhan tämä semmonen kärsimysten tie 😁 

Voimia!

GOOGLE TRANSLATION:

Hey.

I guess you can’t find any stick figure for this effort. In fact, I was now 1.5 years on the wagon. Mentally, I am in better balance. There is mild depression but it is more due to all these side effects and malaise. I have tried diet stuff and exercise and know what but I think time is the only thing that improves. I don’t use alcohol at all and try to avoid sugars. These will help me in this matter. Another good ois exercise is how the strength is enough. I myself have tried cycling but my muscle weakness and pains want to be too great. I tried such a special thing when eating eggs raw. I thought this was helpful for moods at first but it eventually started to raise too much cholesterol. There could also be a blacebo effect.

My background is 11 years of citalopram 20mg dose for panic disorder. 2 failed quit attempts. Now for the third time going and I’m never going to put a button in my mouth. I have fatigue, insomnia, headaches, reflux, muscle aches, muscle weakness, difficulty concentrating, anger, sometimes seizures all of a sudden for no reason. There are good days in between that I have already felt like a human being. These have been a few days a year. I have to try to keep the flag high and I have tried to explain to the friends what I am going through now so that they understand. Mold has a girlfriend left because of this effort and many jobs gone. Now I became unemployed because of Corona but I am too tired to be able to look for a new job. Can exchange news by private message if interested. After all, this is the path of Semmon's suffering 😁

Power-ups!

 

Edited by ChessieCat
added Google translation

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Teppo125

@Gridley
This question is not for me, but for my friend. She’s very poor at english and she asked for me, could I ask help for she’s situation from here. 
She’s been taking Escitalopram for a decade on and off and doses were 5mg - 10mg. She has’nt got any symptoms earlier, only now. 
2018 she quit medication, but after 6 months she has to come back for 5mg, because life circumstanses causes her anxiety. Escitalopram didn’t work anymore, all that she has was side effects. They decreased the dose to 10mg and all get more worse. September 2019 doctor cold turkeyd her and she was thrown to the withdrawal, I think. She has suffered now 9 months for no light and she says it’s getting worse. She takes Diazepams for the worst conditions. 20. May she goes maybe to the best psychitric in Finland, which has experience of antidepressant withdrawal. But what is your advice?

 

Thanks

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Gridley

@Teppo125

 

You asked earlier about Esomeprazol.  There are problems associated with long-term use.  This link explains the risks and how to taper off.

That acid reflux pill may be causing your health problems ...

 

50 minutes ago, Teppo125 said:

She has suffered now 9 months for no light and she says it’s getting worse.

 

She is suffering from withdrawal, which is very common after a cold turkey.  She will heal, but it is impossible to say how long it will take.  Here is some information on withdrawal and the healing process that perhaps you can translate for her or use Google translate.  If she can do mild exercise like a walk in nature, that would be good.  Eat a healthy diet.  Avoid sugar, caffeine and alcohol.

Try to remain calm.  This will pass.

 

What is withdrawal syndrome.

 

What are her symptoms?  The following link lists common withdrawal symptoms.

 

Daily Checklist of Antidepressant Withdrawal Symptoms (PDF) 

 

When we take psychiatric medications, the CNS (central nervous system) responds by making changes over the months and years we take the drug(s). When the medication is discontinued, the CNS has to undo all the changes it made. Rebuilding the neurotransmitter production and reactivating the receptor and transporter cells takes time -- during that rebuilding process symptoms occur.  

 

These explain the healing process really well:

 

Video:  Healing From Antidepressants - Patterns of Recovery

 

Brain Remodelling 

 

We don't recommend a lot of supplements on SA, as many members report being sensitive to them due to our over-reactive nervous systems, but two supplements that we do recommend are magnesium and omega 3 (fish oil). Many people find these to be calming to the nervous system. I don't know how available these are in Finland.  Try to get magnesium that is not mixed with other ingredients.

 

Magnesium, nature's calcium channel blocker 

 

Omega-3 fatty acids (fish oil) 

 

Add in one at a time and at a low dose in case you do experience problems.

 

1 hour ago, Teppo125 said:

May she goes maybe to the best psychitric in Finland, which has experience of antidepressant withdrawal.

 

Maybe the psychiatrists in Finland are more enlightened than in the United States, but psychiatrists know nothing about withdrawal and in fact don't even believe it exists.  They misdiagnose withdrawal symptoms as "return of the underlying condition" and put their patients on more drugs.  When they don't work, they take them off the drug (causing more withdrawal) and 0ut them on another drug.  So it goes.

 

Time is the only cure here.  Taking good care of herself will help, avoiding stress will help, mild exercise and good diet and the two supplements I mention will help.  

 

If anxiety is one of her symptoms, I have found this restorative yoga pose to be very helpful with withdrawal anxiety.

 

10 minute Restorative Yoga for Relaxation | Up the wall

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Teppo125

@Gridley Thank you for your advice!

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Teppo125

There is on thing on my mind. My mother takes 15mg Escitalopram / day to prevent depression, because she has MS - disease. She has no problems at all.

My big sister began to take Escitalopram at the same time as I did for panic disorder as I did too. Only symptom what she had when she started the drug was dry mouth. She even updose to drug to 20mg / day and said that now she's normal than ever. She started to take medication down and now she takes 7,5mg / day, with no major problems. Just a little anxiety each time when she dropped the dose.

And when I started Escitalopram, I almost committed suicide. Yes, I'm younger, but still 30 years old. 8 weeks at low dose and then I quit CT and had(still have) severe withdrawal. I think that candies didn't go even. But I think that I'm strongest to deal with that. My point is that how this is possible, because we are same family and we have the same gene?

I'm just wondering...🤔

 

(This could be brutal, but I want a little bit that my sister gets withdrawal symptoms when she quits the drug, not so severe as I, but a little bit😏. Maybe she then knows what I have been dealing with last months, because no one understand)

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Gridley
33 minutes ago, Teppo125 said:

point is that how this is possible, because we are same family and we have the same gene?

Everyone is different, including within the same family, and that includes reactions to psychiatric drugs.  There are some things in your physiology that you share with your mother and sister, and many things you don't.

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Teppo125

I think I’ve hit a wave. Third day with horrible anxiety, intrusive thoughts paranoia, low mood etc. Feels like I have done any progress about healing. This is not so bad what was few months ago, but still...8 and half months when CT’d Escitalopram. Well, I have to ride this out I guess. 

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Altostrata

How are you doing, Teppo? How often do you take diazepam?

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Teppo125

@Altostrata

Hei Altostrada!

Thanks for asking. I’m on windows and waves. Mornings are still pretty bad, but sometimes good. Evenings are lot better still. Sleep is better too and it gets better all the time. That’s true that when I’m in wave it feels that I’m not getting any progress with this. And that feeling comes every day. 
I haven’t took diazepams for months anymore. In this 8.5 months I have taken maybe 10 diazepams all together, not so much indeed. They have been 5mg. 

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Altostrata

Yes, recovery can be very frustrating, it's so slow. But it's a good sign that your sleep is improving. Be patient, take care of yourself.

 

Please let us know how you're doing.

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Teppo125

@Altostrata Is it common that symptoms are worst at some point in the day?

Yes I will take good care for myself. I don’t do anything extra that I don’t want to do or I can’t. I avoid alcohol. I drink alcohol-free beers, because I loved to get drunk before this and I like the taste. Now I would’t do it to myself. I also avoid sugar and try to eat as healthy as possible. I’m working, but I do as much as I can handle. I avoid violency on tv and radio, they are triggerin my CNS. Also I avoid news. Only minus is that I use snus, but I can’t stop it(used for years). I take sauna everyday on evening, that relaxes me. I take little walk every day, but not running etc. because I’m exhausted. I would’t never touch these drugs if I have known how bad they are, but no one use in here wouldn’t, if they had known. 
Any more advice, that speed up(at least not slow) recovery?

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mustafa

Hello teppo,

It is so good you said that you were able to survive.

I and alot of members here are going through a bad suffer from withdrawals of antidepresdants but i think it is very well to find a doctor who confess the withdrawals from antidepressants.

The journey of withdrawals is very unique and you may find some foods are very helpful to you and some are bad, try to notice that; you should also avoid stress and persuade yourself that the suffer is temporary even if long, but temporary so, no need for stress.

Dont give your ears for negative sounds and trust the fact of recovery❤️.

It is fantastic u are 8 months off the drug, continue this .

Take care of yourself .

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Teppo125

@mustafa

Yes I know that stress is not good for healing. When I get stressed my symptoms starts to go high. I’m not in physical job so I think that work is good healer, but I do lot of decisions on my work, because I drive forestmachine, cut trees. 
Days go faster, when there is something to do. It’s hard somedays, but I’m not gonna stay home. I will survive this

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Teppo125

Update

 

I’m defenitly more waves than windows, I just didn’t figure that out. BUT last few days I’ve been two days in a pretty good window and I noticed that. Then wave came to avenge and hit pretty hard. This morning was miserable, but I saw the bright light 9.30-10.00am when I feld COMPLETELY normal! I was happy and I thought that ’Oh, this is how I feel when I’m recovered!’ That gave me incredible power to go forward. I hope that I get more and more those windows. I haven’t had that kind of window earlier. 
That was a good sign, eh?

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Teppo125

9 months off Escitalopram

 

I think that I’m making some progress or turning a corner. Last update what I did, I was in wave for sure. Things have changed. Last two weeks I had windows almost every other day and they were not just minutes or hours. This week I had wave which lasts a day and then window which lasts a day. And when I’m in wave it fades away in evening. So it’s 50/50 now waves and windows, or propably more windows now. Sometimes in windows I could be symptom free for hours and then I notice that ’Hey, I just feel normal, for hours!’

I hope that I’m getting closer and closer to total healing. One day I’m happy and second day I’m depressed, third day I’m happy and fourth day I’m depressed. In Finland some guy said that this cycle is the last symptomcycle what comes before healing, but it takes still months before it steady. Is that true? That’s how it goes now. Even the mornings are not bad anymore when I get a good day. This must be a good sign! And I’m also having time with my friends. We go bar and have beers( I took non-alcohol) and two times a week there is discgolfcup where I participate and see my friends and I can laugh for jokes and I tell jokes also. Yes I have my main symptoms lingering in my head, but they don’t control my life anymore. I have noticed that if I push too hard some day, I pay that in the evening or even the next day. So I have to be careful to not push too hard even if I feel normal. 

Let’s go forward!

 

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ChessieCat

Hi Teppo,

 

What you are describing is typical of the recovery process.  It would be worthwhile sticking to non-alcohol for longer.  And as you have noticed if you overdo things then your symptoms worsen.

 

I had a full day out yesterday and saw lots of people for the first time since lockdown (3 months for me) so I'm having an easy day today.  I didn't even do my 1km treadmill walk this morning.

 

Also try to keep stress to a minimum.  And just generally looking after yourself:  eg regular sleeping hours, healthy and regular meals, trying not to do too much in a short period of time (over extend yourself).

 

Have you seen this?  Video:  Healing From Antidepressants - Patterns of Recovery

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Teppo125

@ChessieCat

Yes I have seen that video and all the other videos too. 🙂

But I’m happy that I have more and more windows and waves are not so misearable any more. And I know what’s going on so I could cope with waves pretty good, because I know that they fade away. 
I’ve decided to be sober this year. I’m almost half way trough and it’s not been even hard. Health is far more important than getting drunk or even take few beers at this point. 

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ChessieCat

👍

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