Dawnd: help to reinstate

[Dawnd]

Dawnd

 

Need advice ASAP. I was On Effexor 10 years, 75mg dropped to 37.5 half way through. 10 years later wanted to get off completely. Weaned myself off very quickly and haphazardly over 8 months. Didn’t feel well, but no severe withdrawals until 6 months later when i tried a liver cleanse and all hell broke lose. Severe stabbing pain head to toe, Migraines, feels like cynderblocks on neck and jaw, brain shakes and quivers, hot knife pain in elbows and knees, internal organ pain, ringing in ears, head in a vice, pins and needles in eyes and gums, can hear heart beat loud in ears, etc. I’m on 300mg Gabapentin twice a day to help with the pain. How do i reinstate?? How many beads should I take. I want to start very low to see if it helps at all and doesn’t make my symptoms worse. PLEASE HELP I AM DESPERATE.

Edited May 14, 2020 by Gridley

[Gridley]

Welcome to SA, Dawnd.

 

How many months ago was your last dose?   How much was the final dosage you took?

[Dawnd]

From The 37.5mg I was switched two 25mg tablets, down to one, where I eventually broke down to 1/4 tablet, and down to every other day, so on and so forth. I did that for about 8 months.
 

Yesterday I got a prescription for 37.5mg capsules where I will open and calculate beads, to start at 1mg for a week, 2 mg the next week, so on and so forth. I have been told on the Facebook group Effexor Tappering that is the only way to try, since I have been off for long long.

[Gridley]

37 minutes ago, Dawnd said:

I have been off for long long.

How long have you been off?  Depending on how long, it could be very risky to reinstate and could make matters worse.

 

We do not recommend reinstating as you described.  We recommend reinstating at a very very low dose (like 1mg)and holding on that dose for a week util it reaches full state in your bloodstream.  It may be enough.  We need to see.  Too much can overwhelm your system and further destabilize you.  If you need to increase, you can do so, by a very small amount and then wait to see how it works., but we don't recommend increasing every week.  You system needs stability and a stable dose.

Edited May 15, 2020 by Gridley

[Dawnd]

I’ve been off 8 months, and withdrawing the last two months. That’s good advice. I will stick to the 1mg for a week and see how I feel. Unless I feel worse I will stop, which I guess I will take one day at a time. And if okay I can wait another week and wait. I’m in no hurry to make this worse by any means!!

[Gridley]

@Dawnd

Reinstating works most predictably within 3 months of your last dose.  Reinstating 8 months out could be risky.  It might work or it might make things worse.  If you feel worse, I would stop the reinstatement.

 

It takes a little bit more than a week for the reinstatement to reach full strength in your blood stream and register in the brain.  The effect should get stronger during that time.  If 1 mg is enough, it still may take some weeks or months for your nervous system to settle down.  You probably will continue to have ups and downs but symptoms won't be as intense.

 

It's a good idea to keep daily notes on paper to track how you're doing.  Please keep us updated.

 

 

[Dawnd]

I had woke up with less pain yesterday then on Thursday during this original post. A window maybe?  I took my first dose of 1mg yesterday am. By about 6pm I was getting the sharp pain in my head back and a few other nerve pains. I took my usual 300mg of Gabapentin and by 9pm things were getting worse. Pains increased. Anxiety increases. 12:30am I finally fell asleep. Woke at 3am with the head pain and nerve pain including a few new areas of pain. I am starting to wonder if Gabapentin is the culprit for this. Or if it’s just another wave. Could this be from the 1mg Effexor. Gosh this is confusing and horrifying. I’ve been in Gabapentin 4 weeks, and I already want to wean this awful drug. 

[Gridley]

2 hours ago, Dawnd said:

Could this be from the 1mg Effexor.

It is very hard to tell.  If your symptoms continue to worsen, I would stop the reinstatement of Effexor.

[Dawnd]

Weaning off Gabapentin while in Effexor Withdrawals

 

Long story short, I was on Effexor for 10 years, and haphazardly weaned myself per my MD 9 months ago.  I only took about 7-8 months to wean, ending in August 2019.  I didn't feel well for 6 months (fatigued, depressed, listless, brain fog), so I did a liver cleanse that made me very ill.  That is when all hell broke lose.  For whatever reason I didn't understand that I was in withdrawals ( maybe due to the brain fog?).  I thought the pain was from Fibromayalgia. I only came  to the conclusion over the past few weeks after reading online that I am indeed in withdrawals.  I am almost bedridden, unable to work or drive.  Pain is excruciating.  In the meantime I was put on Gabapentine 5 weeks ago for the nerve and muscle pain.  Now I see that Gabapentine is also a terrible and dangerous drug so I want to wean myself off that as soon as I can.  I am unsure if weaning off one drug while in withdrawals from another drug is a good idea.  But I want to get off this stuff.  It makes me feel like my brain is floating in my head, and the pressure down my head and spinal chord is awful.  This is quite scary.  I am very afraid!!

 

Edited June 2, 2020 by ChessieCat
added topic title

[Gridley]

Dawnd,

 

In the future, please post all your posts about your situation in your original Introduction topic, not in other forums like "tapering."  That way all your information is in one place.  Here is the link to your Introduction topic:

Dawnd : Help to Reinstate

Regarding tapering Gabapentin, what dosage are you on?  

 

If you are reacting badly to the Gabapentin you can begin a taper but only if you go very slowly.  We recommend tapering by no more than 10% of your current dose every four weeks.  

 

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

You might start with 5% every four weeks to see how well you tolerate that.

 

This link is about tapering Gabapentin, including how to get the nonstandard doses you'll need for your 10% (or 5%) taper.

 

Tips for tapering off Neurontin (gabapentin)

 

 

 

[Dawnd]

Gridley, I am a little confused.  How do I go about putting the post in the right place?

[Gridley]

23 minutes ago, Dawnd said:

How do I go about putting the post in the right place?

Don't worry about it  You don't have to do anything,   This is just for your future posts.

[Dawnd]

What should I do about my CNS being in a destabled state because I’m in withdrawal; when I want to taper off gabapentine? Will that make matters worse? Do I not taper off Gabapentin ? I’m so stuck and so scared.

[Gridley]

1 hour ago, Dawnd said:

What should I do about my CNS being in a destabled state because I’m in withdrawal; when I want to taper off gabapentine? Will that make matters worse? Do I not taper off Gabapentin ? I’m so stuck and so scared.

 

How are you doing with the reinstatement of Effexor?  Are you still taking 1mg?  You reinstated on May 15, so it's been 11 days now.  Are your symptoms better or worse?

 

I would not start a taper of Gabapentin now. You just reinstated Effexor.  That situation needs to settle down before you think about tapering Gabapentin.

[Dawnd]

I stopped after that first day.  I had a panic attack and couldn't do it.  I may try again, I am unsure.  My anxiety is so high and I am very scared to make my severe withdrawals worse.

[Dawnd]

I am curious if my posts are seen by others in the forum, and if there would be feedback from other members, including yourself.  Is your Facebook page active?  It doesn't seem like anyone posts on that (maybe they aren't allowed)...

[Gridley]

14 minutes ago, Dawnd said:

am curious if my posts are seen by others in the forum, and if there would be feedback from other members, including yourself.  Is your Facebook page active?  It doesn't seem like anyone posts on that (maybe they aren't allowed)...

 

Yes, all your posts are available to be seen and read by others.  Any members who wants to can offer feedback.

 

I'm not very familiar with the SA facebook page.  It is active and appears to consist of posts from this site.  Right here in your Introduction topic is where you should post.  

[Bea123]

Hello, can i share my experience with TCA?

Everyone here took ssri so It Is difficult to me to understand what happened to me. I took amytriptiline for tension headache from 2nd of january to 12th of january. I took only 6 mg which Is 3 drops of liquid. I started to have fasciculations so why i stopped. 3 days After i stopped i experienced burning all over my body, tremors and i started to become saggy and ive Lost 12 kgs of muscles. My Heart beat less intense. Ive done the tilt test and i resulted with POTS and syncope. I think It Is related to the cholinergic rebound tha has damaged my nervous fibers (the sympathetic ones). 

Im very hopeless,

@Gridleywhat do you think?

Please help 

[KCPetite1]

Dawnd our Effexor group recommended Surviving Antidepressants way of reinstating (above) and gave you the link to research how. We don't tell members how to reinstate.  Are you taking any other meds/drugs? 

 

 

 

[Dawnd]

@ Gridley - can you let me know if this is how I would start a new post asking another question to the group, by just replying to my own original post?

[Gridley]

12 minutes ago, Dawnd said:

@ Gridley - can you let me know if this is how I would start a new post asking another question to the group, by just replying to my own original post?

Yes, right here is where you should post your questions to the group, just like you posted this question to me.

 

 

[Dawnd]

Anyone have success on reinstating after being off for 9 months and in severe withdrawals?  I am debating on doing so myself.  I tried 1mg one day 12 days ago and freaked out and stopped, worrying it would make matters even worse.  My waves are pretty bad and I am  considering trying again but for longer period of time.  I am absolutely miserable in so much physical pain.  Or maybe I should ride out this acute withdrawal period.  I am quite stuck and afraid.

[Dawnd]

@Altoid @Altostrata  Hello - can either of you shed any light for me on my posts of reinstatement?  And the Teva Brand Venlafaxine HCI ER v. Effexor XR?  Are they equivalent?  I found this online...

 

Venlafaxine HCl extended-release is a serotonin-norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor available in capsule and tablet formulations. ... Venlafaxine ER is not AB-rated to Effexor XR® by the US Food and Drug Administration, and venlafaxine ER tablets are not a therapeutic equivalent to Effexor XR

[FindRest]

@Dawnd 
 

I believe the  answer to your question is that venlefaxine HCL ER is the generic equivalent of name-brand Effexor XR.

[FindRest]

https://www.tevagenerics.com/product/venlafaxine-hydrochloride-extended-release-capsules-usp

[Dawnd]

@Altoid @Altostrata  Hello - can either of you shed any light for me on my posts of reinstatement?  And the Teva Brand Venlafaxine HCI ER v. Effexor XR?  Are they equivalent?  I found this online...

 

Venlafaxine HCl extended-release is a serotonin-norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor available in capsule and tablet formulations. ... Venlafaxine ER is not AB-rated to Effexor XR® by the US Food and Drug Administration, and venlafaxine ER tablets are not a therapeutic equivalent to Effexor XR

[Altostrata]

FindRest is correct. Does your Teva venlafaxine HCl come in capsules filled with tiny beads?

 

You'd have to provide a link for this:

21 minutes ago, Dawnd said:

Venlafaxine HCl extended-release is a serotonin-norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor available in capsule and tablet formulations. ... Venlafaxine ER is not AB-rated to Effexor XR® by the US Food and Drug Administration, and venlafaxine ER tablets are not a therapeutic equivalent to Effexor XR

 

I believe it's dead wrong. The FDA requires bioequivalency for all generic drugs sold in the US.

 

Dawn, how do you feel before and after you take gabapentin? Are you taking any other drugs?

 

What is your current daily symptom pattern?

 

How many beads of Effexor did you reinstate?

 

What the heck was in that liver cleanse?

 

To help us out, follow these instructions Please put your drug and withdrawal history in your signature You may need to use a computer to do this.

[Dawnd]

@Altostrata 

Sorry for my delayed response, I have been very ill.  Yes the Teva venlafaxine HCl come in capsules filled with tiny beads.  The 37.5mg capsules carry between 38-43 beads each which on average calculates to a little less than 1mg per bead.  

 

The Gabapentine sometimes blunts the pain at times, other times not all.  Usually within 30 minutes of taking it I feel a warm sensation grow throughout my body.  I am unsure if its helping. I don't like the way it makes me feel at all and want to get off.  And my withdrawal symptoms are pretty bad so its hard to say if there are any side effects. Reminder - I didn't realize I was in withdrawals until about 3-4 weeks ago.  I thought  my pain was from Fibromayalgia and cervical spine disc disease, and the doctor started me on Gabapentine.  My disabling withdrawals symptoms didn't start until 6-7 months AFTER stopping the Effexor/Venlaxifine ( I did immediately suffer from mild depression, depersonalization,  and muscle weakness, after stopping).  After I had done the cleanse that consisted of Cats Claw, Lemon Balm, Silica, Iron supplement, L-Methylfolate, parsely water, epsom salt foot baths, all hell broke lose within 2 weeks, starting March 14, 2020.  Its only gotten worse as the weeks pass. 

 

As of the past two weeks I will have a window every 2-3 days.   So the last two weeks I will have 2 wave days, and then 1 window day ( or half a day).  Windows don't mean I am well, just  that I having mild pain instead of severe. I have also recently started feeling the psychological symptoms of anxiety, despair, depression, thoughts of death, etc.  My body pain is like a burning knife, and my head feels like a bowling ball on my weak neck.  The pain in my head and neck is piercing.  I can barely eat and lost a lot of weight.  I get between 2-4 hours of sleep a night.  Very weak, very dizzy, atrophied muscles, knot in stomach.  Constant feeling like my body is moving away from me while I sit or lay down.  My brain feels like it is swimming in my skull.

 

I know its been a good 9 months off so that is why I am very hesitant to reinstate.  This is already awful and afraid to make it more awful and then not know what to do on such a low dose.  I am curious if I am considered to be 2 months into withdrawals or 9 months into withdrawals from the time I took the last dose.

 

[Altostrata]

58 minutes ago, Dawnd said:

My disabling withdrawals symptoms didn't start until 6-7 months AFTER stopping the Effexor/Venlaxifine ( I did immediately suffer from mild depression, depersonalization,  and muscle weakness, after stopping).

 

Did you have other withdrawal symptoms in the 6-7 months?

 

Not sure if your condition is related to going off Effexor. You might have had a bad reaction to the liver cleanse. We don't recommend them. Or, it could be something else. What were you trying to treat with the liver cleanse?

 

What is your current daily symptom pattern and drug schedule?

[Dawnd]

@Altostrata the first 6-7 months of stopping  I had mild depression, a feeling of no emotion (feeling flat), anxious , muscle weakness, feeling very unwell. Like I was on the cusp of having a breakdown of some kind. So I seen a holistic doctor that said I may have backed up prescription meds in my liver and suggested the supplements. 
 

My daily symptom pattern varies some. I don’t sleep well (2 - 4 hours sporadic) lethargic, weak. The Shakes, jelly legs, head and neck pain, brain swimming in skull. Muscle and joint burning and stabbing, hand and body tremors. Dizzy. Little to no appetite. And like I said the anxiety, despair, thoughts of death. I’ll have mornings where the pain subsides some and I can go for a 10 min walk, make myself a smoothie, etc. Other days i don’t shower. 2 bad days to 1 good day on average. Good meaning mild to moderate pain, but I’m still laying down 90% of my 24 hour day.

 

i added my history in my signature. 100mg of gabapentine 3x a day for the past 7 weeks. I occasionally take Magnesium Glycinate in the evening, but I haven’t the past 4 nights. Nothing else.

[Dawnd]

@Altostrata  Hello - just checking to see if you may have seen my response...

Thanks,

Dawnd

[Altostrata]

I think there was something in the liver cleanse that upset your system.

 

What is your daily drug schedule, with times and dosages?

[Dawnd]

@Altostrata I think the cleanse (Detox) may have purged  any Effexor that was lingering in my system,  and put me in full blown withdrawals. 
 

100mg of Gabapentine 6:30am, 2:30pm, and 10:30pm  (300mg total).

 

A doctor today recommended going on Cymbalta.

 

If I don’t reinstate Effexor (Or try Cymbalta) then I want to taper very slowly (5% every 4 weeks) off Gabapentine. Although I am concerned it may make my nervous system a bigger mess, if that’s possible. 

 

[Dawnd]

@Altostrata hi again...any thoughts on waiting to taper the gabapentine since CNS is in chaos?

[Altostrata]

How do you feel before and after you take gabapentin each time? lease keep daily notes of times of day you take your drugs, their dosages, and your symptoms throughout the day. Post 24 hours of notes at a time in this topic, in a simple list format with time of day on the left and notation (symptom or drug and dosage) on the right.

 

I don't think you're experiencing withdrawal syndrome. I think your system was sensitized by 17 years of going on and off psychiatric drugs and something in the liver cleanse caused it to get upset. If the gabapentin is helping, I wouldn't taper off of it until your nervous system settles down. I would not reinstate Effexor.

 

Whether experimenting with Cymbalta or other random psychiatric drugs would help, I can't say. If you do this, you'll have to work with your doctor if you get adverse effects or whatever, cleaning up after drug experiments is not our job.

[Dawnd]

@Altostrata

June 7, 2020:

6:30am woke up, slept 5 hours, mild pain, mild head and neck pressure 

6:45am 100mg Gabapentine

7:30am feel the warming sensation throughout body 
8:30am bfast

9am showered and dressed

10am felt okay to attend bible study, pain mild, head feels heavy neck weak

12:30pm lunch 

1pm manage a 15 walk 

2:30pm 100mg Gabapentine

3pm painted nails (haven’t been able to do that in a month), laid down to rest

4pm family visited sat outside 

4:30pm depression, sadness, thoughts of death - will I live Through this to see my niece grow?

8pm barely ate dinner emotions continue and burning in joints and knees begin

10:30pm 100mg Gabapentine

11:30pm pain continues, try to read, fall asleep 

wake up often in muscle joint and head pain at a level 7-8, sleeps 2-3 max in intervals