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Dawnd

Dawnd: help to reinstate

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Altostrata

How have your symptoms changed in the last month, while you were taking gabapentin on this schedule?

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Dawnd

@Altostrata

June 8, 2020:

5am woke up, high level body pain, Joint burning, head and neck pain, anxiety, depression

6:30am 100mg Gabapentin 

7:30am dizzy, head pain, burning remains, feel a slight tingly and numbing in body

8:30am had smoothie 

9am very depressed, scared, pain is constant, head throbs, stay on couch all morning

12:30pm ate chicken and rice, remain on couch

2pm peircing lain in lower head and neck 

2:30pm 100mg Gabapentin 
3pm pain very slightly reduced but still present

3pm banana and almonds

3:30pm body heavy, head heavy, slight numbness and tingling

4:30pm slight noises startled me, electricity in body, muscle And joint burning, pain in left eardrum

6:30pm ate chicken and salad 

7pm abdominal pain 

10:30pm 100mg Gabapentin 

11:30pm pain high, fall asleep, wake up 2-3x go back to sleep

4:30am wake up  

 


 

 

 

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Altostrata
16 hours ago, Altostrata said:

How have your symptoms changed in the last month, while you were taking gabapentin on this schedule?

 

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Dawnd

@Altostrata symptoms have increased in the last month. A month ago I was able to sleep more, have a little more energy, I could eat fine, less pain, and far less depression, anxiety.  I had zero thoughts of death until about 3 weeks ago. I feel like I am getting worse. Symptoms are more intense. 

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Altostrata

And the reason you would not reinstate venlafaxine is.....?

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Dawnd

@Altostrata hello... will I be able to remain on the site? I saw your FB announcement... :(

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Dawnd

@Altostrata sorry I didn’t see your question. I am quite sure this is withdrawals from venlaxifine. I spoke to Baylissa Frederick and she also thought the same. I was thinking reinstating would help stabilize me since I was on it for so long. It’s a rough choice to make. Just very scared for either way. 

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Altostrata

Why have you not reinstated venlafaxine? If I were you, I might start with 1 bead out of a 37.5mg capsule.

 

Current members can still participate.

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Dawnd

That’s a good question. Well I’ve been told that it can cause a very bad reaction making me worse since it’s been 10 months I’ve been off. I’m still debating and trying to come to a decision. I know I’m a pain. I’m just dealing with so much anxiety about this. I’m sorry. 

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Altostrata

That's why we suggest 1 bead. It's a very small amount, allows you to test the waters.

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Dawnd

@Altostrata So if I chose to do the 1mg and wait 2-4 weeks and if I am not stabilizing, would I up work my way up?  Or if I find that I am getting worse do I abruptly stop the 1mg?  Thank you for any feedback.  My mind is mush.

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Altostrata

You have to see what 1 BEAD does first. Please let us know how you're doing.

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Dawnd

@Altostrata .....I chose not to reinstate the effexor.  My CNS is completely unstable.  I am worried it would backfire on me 10 months out. 

 

I tried CBD oil (.25ml) yesterday and felt it might have revved me up.  I continue to have the body and head pains and the inner tremble is pretty moderate into today.   CBD oil is not recommended I see online here? 

 

As for Gabapentine it might be causing the suicidial ideations.  I have started a slow tappering of 2.5%.  Any recommendations regarding that, while I am in withdrawal?

 

Thank you.

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Altostrata

I do not see an adverse reaction to gabapentin in your daily symptom notes. Not a good idea to add gabapentin withdrawal to Effexor withdrawal.

 

Please reconsider low-dose reinstatement.

 

What does the "depression" feel like? It could be from Effexor withdrawal.

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Dawnd

@altostrata 
I am very concerned about two things; if I reinstate Effexor it could cause severe akathasia this far out.  If I’m on 1mg and I get adverse effects, how do I taper from 1mg?  Or what if see no results where to do I go from there?
 

I haven’t seen many success stories on Effexor/Venlaxifin reinstatements after a few months off the drug...Have I missed the stories?

 

the gabapentine might be adding to the suicidal thoughts. Doesn’t seem to help much with my pain. It’s such a a terrible drug to be on. But yes I am concerned about tapering while already in Venlaxifin withdrawals :(

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Altostrata
On 6/11/2020 at 9:04 PM, Altostrata said:

You have to see what 1 BEAD does first. Please let us know how you're doing.

 

1 BEAD out of an Effexor capsule is not the same as 1mg. (Depending on the capsule, it might be close to 1mg.)

 

The reason we suggest a very tiny amount is because it's less likely to cause an adverse reaction. We cannot tell if it may help until after you give it a try.

 

We can't tell next steps until we see what it does. If it helps a little, a little more might be appropriate. If you have a bad reaction to it, you can stop it right away, let the reaction settle over a few days.

 

Yes, you would taper off later.

 

Why do you think gabapentin rather than withdrawal syndrome is causing suicidal thoughts? What are these thoughts like?

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Dawnd

We calculated that one bead out of the 37.5mg is about .95mg, since there is between 38-43 beads on average in the Venlaxifen capsules. 
 

the suicidal thoughts never appeared in my life. Even after the first month of being in WD. I still had an optimistic view. 
 

About 4 weeks into Gabapentin the thoughts came on strong, and kind of out of nowhere. 
 

The thoughts are persistent. Night and day. It comes from my gut, not always just from my head. And not always when the pain is bad, also in days that are “windows”. I feel very desperate.  I feel so stuck on this scary drug Amal’s while my nervous system is so hyper and fragile. I keep worrying about not being able to get off gaba, and what the withdrawal will be like for that.
 

 I’ll watch tv and think I wonder if that person is still alive, have they killed themselves, etc....or I’ll pass by pictures of myself in my parents home and think that might be a picture they use at my funeral. I get so sad seeing old picture of me, thinking that everyone will be so sad that my life came to this. I’ll try to be eating dinner with my family and in the middle of us talking, the thought will appear out of nowhere.  
 

It’s completely frightening to me. I am terrified.

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Altostrata

You have to stop frightening yourself. You may be having very distressing symptoms, but it sounds like you're adding to them by dwelling on the worst case scenarios.

 

More likely, you'll reduce gabapentin, you'll gradually feel better, and you'll move on.

 

Since it seems likely you have venlafaxine withdrawal, a trial reinstatement of venlafaxine seems the most likely way to diminish your withdrawal symptoms. If you don't want to do that, you'll have to hang in and use non-drug methods to cope with how you feel.

 

As near as I can tell, gabapentin is not your problem. What is your current sleep pattern? Did you make any other drug changes in early April? Take antibiotics? Have a glass of wine?

 

Between September, 2019 and March, 2020, after you went off venlafaxine but before you started gabapentin, what were your symptoms like?

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Dawnd

@Altostrata Yes I am very stressed.  You are right. 
 

The symptoms before gabapentine from 9/2019 to 3/2020 were the following: depressed, fatigued, anxious, and emotionally “flatlined”. 
 

I took antiobitics in November 2019 after a dog bite. I would take Advil on a weekly basis for mild aches and pains. I drank wine often, (5-7 glasses a week) through Early May 2020.

 

Again I’m not sure you remember but I did that liver cleanse and set everything off with herbal supplements. Terrible idea.
 

Today My entire head, jaw and body feel on fire, joints burn and head throbs like nothing else. So dizzy, weak, and depressed.

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Altostrata

Those glasses of wine have kept your nervous system in an uproar.

 

Please post daily notes again. There might be a way you can make the gabapentin work better for you.

 

 

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Dawnd

@Altostrata 

Maybe. But The last time I drank wine was  May10. Make the gabapentine work better? I wonder how so.  I have tapered down 2%, 8 days ago...And already feel  prickling nerve pain. 

 

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Altostrata

We have many people here who report a resurgence of symptoms after a glass of wine. It can take weeks for stabilization again.

 

I don't think the gabapentin is your problem. Without seeing your daily notes, I have nothing else to add.

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Dawnd

@Altostrata okay here was yesterday and note:

 

6/22

4:30am woke up bad pain (slept 3-4 hours off and on from burning stabbing pain all over)

6:30am 98mg gabapentine, Laid in bed

10am couldn’t eat no appetite laid on couch in pain, depresses, dark thoughts 

1pm tied to eat, Barely could swallow anything down, terrible pain all Over body 

2:30pm 98mg gabapentine 

3:30pm pain still awful, anxiety rising 

4:00pm anxiety peaks, crying and scared

7pm tried to eat, succeeded some 

10:30 98mg Gabapentin  

11pm fall asleep

12am wake up, nerve pains increased and very agitated, can’t sit still, bad body tremors 
2am fall asleep

wake up al night Every  1-2 hours 

 

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ChessieCat
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Dawnd said:

The last time I drank wine was  May10. Make the gabapentine work better? I wonder how so.

 

SA's topic:  alcohol-and-beer

 

Ethanol = alcohol

 

From https://reference.medscape.com/drug-interactionchecker

 

gabapentin, ethanol. Either increases effects of the other by pharmacodynamic synergism.

 

From https://www.drugs.com/drug_interactions.html

 

Alcohol can increase the nervous system side effects of gabapentin such as dizziness, drowsiness, and difficulty concentrating. Some people may also experience impairment in thinking and judgment. You should avoid or limit the use of alcohol while being treated with gabapentin.

 

Edited by ChessieCat

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Dawnd

@ChessieCat thank you for the response. I most definitely will not be drinking any time soon, if ever again in my life. Simply not worth it. 

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ChessieCat

You're very welcome.

 

I enjoy a glass of wine but I've decided that I don't like the way it makes me feel.  I'm fairly certain that I haven't had a drink of alcohol since I started tapering (October 2015) so it's not because I've had a bad experience whilst tapering.  When I go out I stick to lemon, lime and bitters or something else.  I've read of quite a few members here having issues; everything is going okay and then they have a glass of wine or a beer and get dumped by a wave.  And like you, I just don't think it is worth it.

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Altostrata

Dawn, we don't have any magic. If people have PAWS and don't want to reinstate, they have to find ways to cope with symptoms.

 

There are a few things here and there you can do to support recovery, but fundamentally, time needs to do its job. You were drinking until a month ago, that probably set you back.

 

I don't know what's going on with the gabapentin. I cannot tell if you feel worse after you take it, you have to decide that for yourself.

 

Many people find fish oil and magnesium supplements helpful, see
https://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/36-king-of-supplements-omega-3-fatty-acids-fish-oil/
https://survivingantidepressants.org/topic/15483-magnesium-natures-calcium-channel-blocker/

 

You might try a little bit of one at a time to see how it affects you.

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Dawnd

@Altostrata  @ChessieCat thank you  responses for the links on the supplements.  I appreciate all you do.  May I ask if rapid weight loss is common in AD withdrawal?  I have lost 16 pounds in less then 5 weeks, and it doesn't seem to be stopping.  I can barely eat, my stomach is in a constant knot.  I have to force myself every day and can manage eating only maybe 900 calories a day at best.  I am grown woman and I am dwindling rapidly.  It's worrisome since I will soon be hitting menopause soon, and I am skin and bones.

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ChessieCat

There are many existing topics on SA.  I like to use a search engine and add survivingantidepressants.org.

 

Searching for weight found this topic:  weight-gain-weight-loss-appetite-changes-hunger

 

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Benzhelp

Hi Dawnd

 

Thank you for your update. 

I am so sorry to hear of the suffering you are going though. You are so strong. I hope you find peace and things get better very soon.

Losing weight and appetite is common post withdrawal, lots of folk here mention it. Perhaps it is because stopping a drug that increases appetite, stress of w/d burning away more calories, and just a way the body naturally tries to stabilize itself and heal post w/d? Whatever it is I hope it will settle and get better for you. 

The quality of overall health matters more than weight alone, how much nutrients you give yourself, sleep, rest, enjoyable things to distract oneself, reducing stress overall etc. any good thing one can manage to do for oneself really, that helps nourish oneself. Even if one can’t do most of those things it’s okay, time will heal, it gets better.

 

Drinking water helps to put on weight too, dehydration is a common symptom in post w/d. If there is lack of thirst sometimes adding minerals/electrolytes like magnesium, potassium, pinch of sea salt etc. to diet/fluid/thru skin helps to rehydrate and helps digestion work smoothly. 

Digestive herbal teas like ginger tea before a meals help to stimulate appetite. 

If big meals are too much maybe try smaller portions throughout the day and maybe regular snacking on bananas or easily digestible fruits, fruit/veggie juices, soups, broths, milk, high fat probiotic yogurt, anything you would enjoy/prefer/tolerate, whenever you can?  

Mixing in a bit of healthy high calorie fat like coconut oil to meals and protein like eggs. Maybe supplements omega3/cod liver oil as Alto suggested. 

Complex carbs like mushy overboiled brown rice soup is soothing, especially as rice pudding, and any high fat pudding with healthy ingredients you tolerate. 

These are some ideas based on home remedies. 

Having experienced these symptoms, I’ve found these helped for me, tho I don’t know if it will for you since everyone is different, so please always be careful with any changes you make. Be gentle with yourself. 

Please take good care of yourself, Dawnd <3

Healing, love and light to you <3 <3 <3

 

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Frogie
7 hours ago, Dawnd said:

@Altostrata  @ChessieCat thank you  responses for the links on the supplements.  I appreciate all you do.  May I ask if rapid weight loss is common in AD withdrawal?  I have lost 16 pounds in less then 5 weeks, and it doesn't seem to be stopping.  I can barely eat, my stomach is in a constant knot.  I have to force myself every day and can manage eating only maybe 900 calories a day at best.  I am grown woman and I am dwindling rapidly.  It's worrisome since I will soon be hitting menopause soon, and I am skin and bones.

This is just my experience from tapering Lexapro, I was nauseous everyday. I bought the enssure drinks and they helped a lot. Any bit of protein that I could get. I ate a lot of bananas and yogurt too.

 

 I hope you feel better soon, but hopefully that will help just a little.

 

Take care,

 Frogie xx

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Dawnd

@Benzhelp @Frogie  Thank you both so much for the confirmation  that I will not shrivel up.  What great information,tips, and compassion.  I really appreciate it.  I am a small  middle aged woman so having a thigh gap and ribs protruding is not a good thing.   

 

Frogie - may I ask how you tapered off Gabapentine?

 

Thank you again :) 

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ChessieCat
12 hours ago, Frogie said:

and yogurt too

 

Just be careful with yoghurt.  Some of them contain added probiotics.  Like everything we need to try a small amount to see how we react to it.  And only make one change at a time so that we can tell what is causing any issues if they arise.

 

probiotics-and-gut-health

 

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Frogie
2 hours ago, Dawnd said:

@Benzhelp @Frogie  Thank you both so much for the confirmation  that I will not shrivel up.  What great information,tips, and compassion.  I really appreciate it.  I am a small  middle aged woman so having a thigh gap and ribs protruding is not a good thing.   

 

Frogie - may I ask how you tapered off Gabapentine?

 

Thank you again :) 

Hi

 

I had a stupid psychiatrist that took me off gabapentin by decreasing 100 mg a week!  I don’t suggest that to anyone. You need to taper it just like an antidepressant.😊

 

 

47 minutes ago, ChessieCat said:

 

Just be careful with yoghurt.  Some of them contain added probiotics.  Like everything we need to try a small amount to see how we react to it.  And only make one change at a time so that we can tell what is causing any issues if they arise.

 

probiotics-and-gut-health

 

I didn’t know that about yogurt. That’s very good to learn. Thanks!

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Altostrata

Yes, withdrawal can cause you to lose your appetite. It's a good excuse to eat butter and ice cream, if dairy agrees with you. Do what you can to keep up your strength.

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Dawnd

@Altostrata I had myself french bread with big chunks of butter this evening since for a minute there my appetite came back (crossing fingers).

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