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Shep's Success: "Leaving Plato's Cave"

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Shep
On 5/27/2020 at 2:05 PM, marie123 said:

This is so wonderful for you. You made it out of the cave and are doing so well. This is just what I needed today, very moving. Marie.

 

16 hours ago, Timberline said:

wow @Shep....you're my hero. what an inspiring journey.

 

Thank you, Marie and Timberline. 

 

 


Drug free May 22, 2015 after 30 years of neuroleptics, benzos, z-drugs, so-called "anti"-depressants, and amphetamines 

 

My Success Story:  Shep's Success: "Leaving Plato's Cave"

 

And what is good, Phaedrus, and what is not good — need we ask anyone to tell us these things? ~ Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice, but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

 

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MisterG
Posted (edited)

As a marxist, i share your view of the world and I'm so glad that now your feeling good. I hope this process will be stable in the time, and that you will feel better everyday. I've read some of the books that you quote, and even if they are controversial, i feel like they say the truth. I've read a lot of researches, studies and documents from official psichiatry, i gave them a chance, and It never was like they say. 

Now i'm trying to be off from medications, I don't feel good but hey, it's just the first day. After how much you notjced your improvements?

Mister G.

Edited by MisterG
Error

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Hanna72

Your story is so inspiring Shep Loved reading it, gives me so much hope. Thank you.



2000/ got 20mg Paxil  for panic attacks. Many attempts to quit through out the years, without any success.

2019- January started tapering Paxil, 2019-October 10 mg Paxil , getting ready for a bridge with 10 mg Prozac  Took about 1 month during switch. Done with Paxil 2019/ November started tapering 20 mg Prozac  .Took alcohol and coffee out.2019/December 8 mg Prozac 

2020/January 4 mg Prozac 

2020/15/3 .09 mg jumped off

2020 March 16 off Prozac  Quetipine 25 mg used 1 time in 15 months, oxezapam 15 mg used 5 times 

Suppliments: Magnesium, omega 3 fish oil ( epa&dha) D vitamin 

“The two most powerful warriors are patience and time” Leo Tolstoy 

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sunnysideup69

Wow, that's an incredible story, @Shep ! Really gives me hope that I, too, will recover from big pharma. 

I've been a little freaked out lately as I realised I've used drugs (prescription and non prescription) since the age of 21. I'm now 51. Actually, so many of you on this site give me hope that recovery is still possible. 

Thanks so much for posting.


January 2008 to April 2015 Citalopram 20mg to 5mg, reducing in 50 per cent leaps. Jumped off at 5mg

March 2016 used MDMA triggered setback

April 2016 Citalopram 10mg October 2016 cut to 5mg, May 2017 cut to 2.5mg

May 2018 used MDMA triggered setback

June 2018 Citalopram 2.5mg up to 10mg, then back to 5mg

July/ August 2018 7.5mg, then 10mg

June 2019 updosed to 20mg Citalopram

August 2019 cold switch to Venlafaxine 75mg XR

 

 

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Shep
On 5/29/2020 at 10:53 AM, MisterG said:

As a marxist, i share your view of the world and I'm so glad that now your feeling good. I hope this process will be stable in the time, and that you will feel better everyday. I've read some of the books that you quote, and even if they are controversial, i feel like they say the truth. I've read a lot of researches, studies and documents from official psichiatry, i gave them a chance, and It never was like they say. 

 

Very true - "It never was like they say."  Marxism is about solving contradictions. 

 

On 5/29/2020 at 10:53 AM, MisterG said:

After how much you notjced your improvements?

 

It took about 5 years after coming off all drugs, but most of my recovery has been in the past few weeks. 

 


Drug free May 22, 2015 after 30 years of neuroleptics, benzos, z-drugs, so-called "anti"-depressants, and amphetamines 

 

My Success Story:  Shep's Success: "Leaving Plato's Cave"

 

And what is good, Phaedrus, and what is not good — need we ask anyone to tell us these things? ~ Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice, but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

 

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Shep
15 hours ago, sunnysideup69 said:

Wow, that's an incredible story, @Shep ! Really gives me hope that I, too, will recover from big pharma. 

I've been a little freaked out lately as I realised I've used drugs (prescription and non prescription) since the age of 21. I'm now 51. Actually, so many of you on this site give me hope that recovery is still possible. 

Thanks so much for posting.

 

Yes, I also enjoyed reading the success story of folks who were on these drugs for decades. There's hope for us all. 


Drug free May 22, 2015 after 30 years of neuroleptics, benzos, z-drugs, so-called "anti"-depressants, and amphetamines 

 

My Success Story:  Shep's Success: "Leaving Plato's Cave"

 

And what is good, Phaedrus, and what is not good — need we ask anyone to tell us these things? ~ Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice, but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

 

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Amira123

Your story gives us hope. Thank you so much and congratulations on healing

 

may i ask you did you suffer from emotion nubmbess,apathy, anhedonia? And if yes when did they go away?


Cymbalta 30 mg- 60 mg 

June 2016- October 2018 ( Cold Turkey) 

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gigi63

Hello Shep.  A huge congratulations to you Shep.  I am so inspired by you.  All of your healing!!!!  All of you perseverance!!!  I am at the four year , one month in mark and still waiting for good and steady to arrive, after my CNS crashed on April 22 ,2015.  I would like to ask you how in the midst of the waves and symptoms you began to increase your exercise? I currently walk a couple of miles about four or five days a week but it’s tough to get beyond that with the relentless dizziness and brain fog, muscle and nerve pain. Also, may I ask you what you do for a living?  I am so inspired by you.  Thank you so much.   Gigi. 

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Shep
On 5/30/2020 at 7:35 PM, Amira123 said:

Your story gives us hope. Thank you so much and congratulations on healing

 

may i ask you did you suffer from emotion nubmbess,apathy, anhedonia? And if yes when did they go away?

 

Thanks, Amira. For me, it was less about apathy and more about fatigue. I had tons of stuff I wanted to do, but not the energy, and I also had cognitive issues that made it difficult to do more than the basics. I think there's a lot of overlap with these types of symptoms. 


Drug free May 22, 2015 after 30 years of neuroleptics, benzos, z-drugs, so-called "anti"-depressants, and amphetamines 

 

My Success Story:  Shep's Success: "Leaving Plato's Cave"

 

And what is good, Phaedrus, and what is not good — need we ask anyone to tell us these things? ~ Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice, but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

 

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Shep
Posted (edited)
14 hours ago, gigi63 said:

Hello Shep.  A huge congratulations to you Shep.  I am so inspired by you.  All of your healing!!!!  All of you perseverance!!!  I am at the four year , one month in mark and still waiting for good and steady to arrive, after my CNS crashed on April 22 ,2015.  I would like to ask you how in the midst of the waves and symptoms you began to increase your exercise? I currently walk a couple of miles about four or five days a week but it’s tough to get beyond that with the relentless dizziness and brain fog, muscle and nerve pain. 

 

Thanks, gigi. My advice for increasing exercise is to taper it in. I started out doing cardio at about 5 minutes at a time, 3 or 4 days a week. I added in 1 minute each week. There were times when I had to stop, sometimes for weeks at a time. And then start the process over, 5 minutes at a time, increasing by 1 minute each week. It was incredibly frustrating, but once I was able to get up to running a minimum of 30 minutes at a time, my recovery accelerated. And then I added in biking, which also accelerated my recovery because my brain was having to process information very quickly, especially in busy traffic. 

 

There's a lot in exercise science about how high intensity exercise improves brain function. There are a number of scholarly articles on the web about neurogenesis (cell regrowth) in the hippocampus, which is one of the brain's memory and learning centers. 

 

Diet also plays a key role in my ability to exercise. The Paleo diet works well for me (please note everyone is different when it comes to diet). I try to target foods that increase neurogenesis, such as flavonoids found in foods such as blueberries and dark chocolate, as well as eating a daily serving of fish, which is high in Omega-3 fatty acids. I eat red meat once a day, which is something holistic psychiatrist Dr. Kelly Brogan advocates (Red Meat for Your Depression).  I explained my transition from vegetarian to Paleo in this post here on SA.  Again, everyone is different, but this is what helped me recover and begin to exercise with high intensity. I avoid dairy, gluten, sugar, and I cook everything from scratch, avoiding any processed foods. 

 

Since you're still dealing with a lot of dizziness, brain fog, and pain, gigi, you may want to keep to walking as you're doing for now. Don't push yourself more than you can take. Perhaps concentrate on diet and see if there are any things you could do to improve, if you're not already doing so. For me, I had to improve my diet first and then tackle exercise. 

 

 

14 hours ago, gigi63 said:

Also, may I ask you what you do for a living?

 

I work for a small social justice non-profit. They've been wonderfully supportive during my recovery process. The concept of structural violence in medicine is understood within social justice circles - the history of trauma to marginalized people is well documented in the literature on Western medicine, including Nuremberg Code violations against the so-called "mentally ill." 

 

Edited by Shep
fixed typo

Drug free May 22, 2015 after 30 years of neuroleptics, benzos, z-drugs, so-called "anti"-depressants, and amphetamines 

 

My Success Story:  Shep's Success: "Leaving Plato's Cave"

 

And what is good, Phaedrus, and what is not good — need we ask anyone to tell us these things? ~ Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice, but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

 

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FarmGirlWorks
On 5/27/2020 at 4:28 AM, Shep said:

Due to Mad in America being a reformist site and not an abolitionist site, a lot of the articles there are limited, but if you're interested in a really good abolitionist writer, Dr. Phil Hickey has a number of articles that are really great. 

Thank you and will do. I am (as of a week ago) kundalini yoga certified and am creating a class on ADWD and trauma and want more ADWD supporting info.


  • Prozac | late 2004-mid-2005 | CT WD in a couple months, mostly emotional
  • Sertraline 50-100mg | 11/2011-3/2014, 10/2014-3/2017
  • Sertraline fast taper March 2017, 4 weeks, OFF sertraline April 1, 2017
  • Quit alcohol May 20, 2017, quit coffee October 2017, quit cannabis 😩 July 2018
  • Magnesium powder, fish oil, estradiol, kombucha, gluten/dairy/histamine-lite
  • Lifestyle changes: AA, kundalini practice

 

"If you've seen a monster, even if it's horrible, that's evidence of divinity." – Damien Echols

 

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gigi63

Thank you Shep. You know how DP/DR were your signature symptom? Well, brain fog and dizzy have been mine.  

 

Diet, I am so very clean.  I eat whole food plant based nearly exclusively now for 18 months.  No dairy, minimal sugar, low concentrated fats. Once in a while I eat shrimp.  I love them.  I am working on whole body wellness.  99.8 percent of what I eat also is cooked from scratch. I get my omega 3 from flaxseed.  I am so conscientious about what I put in my mouth.  I drink water, water, water. A little almond milk in my morning cereal.  And blueberries, every single day. I purchase them so frequently and in large quantities.  A cup a day.  

 

I am going to plan on incorporating my bike this June.  I bought a beautiful new bike last year this time but due to dizziness and brain fog, only got on twice briefly.  I plan to continue on with my walking.  I also do core body work about 3-4 days a week.  Nothing strenuous but, to deal with my core muscles. Oh the muscle tightness and pain along with nerve pain, have been difficult.    

 

You are so admirable Shep.  Very very courageous.  Every class of psych drugs and you are healing from them all.  I Praise God in heaven!!!!!

 

now, your work.  I am very interested in what you do.  I have been a practicing RN for 35 years.  I had my rose colored glasses stripped off my eyes when I went into WD.  My provider as well as others are so ignorant as to WD let alone the drugs and the effects of these drugs and most drugs and a lot of treatments that culminate western medicine.  I have read so much material on psychiatry, it’s origins, it’s sick practices, and also now I am seeing firsthand my doubts and the myriad of questions that have come to me about western medicine as a whole.  A sad sad state of affairs driven by greed, agendas, money, power.  To name a few. A great injustice to humanity.  I have a series of books that speak directly to the origins of psychiatry from Nazi Germany and some German men/ psychiatrists , Major game players, just prior to Nazi Germany.  It’s all documented history for the reading.  If one care to look. 

 

Shep, thank you.  I truly appreciate you!!! Congratulations again.  I pray the best for you.  Gigi.   

 

 

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Shep
15 hours ago, FarmGirlWorks said:

Thank you and will do. I am (as of a week ago) kundalini yoga certified and am creating a class on ADWD and trauma and want more ADWD supporting info.

 

That's really impressive, FGW. Best of luck to you in this wonderful work you're doing. 


Drug free May 22, 2015 after 30 years of neuroleptics, benzos, z-drugs, so-called "anti"-depressants, and amphetamines 

 

My Success Story:  Shep's Success: "Leaving Plato's Cave"

 

And what is good, Phaedrus, and what is not good — need we ask anyone to tell us these things? ~ Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice, but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

 

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Shep
15 hours ago, gigi63 said:

now, your work.  I am very interested in what you do.  I have been a practicing RN for 35 years.  I had my rose colored glasses stripped off my eyes when I went into WD.  My provider as well as others are so ignorant as to WD let alone the drugs and the effects of these drugs and most drugs and a lot of treatments that culminate western medicine.  I have read so much material on psychiatry, it’s origins, it’s sick practices, and also now I am seeing firsthand my doubts and the myriad of questions that have come to me about western medicine as a whole.  A sad sad state of affairs driven by greed, agendas, money, power.  To name a few. A great injustice to humanity.  I have a series of books that speak directly to the origins of psychiatry from Nazi Germany and some German men/ psychiatrists , Major game players, just prior to Nazi Germany.  It’s all documented history for the reading.  If one care to look. 

 

Yes, I've been reading about the origins of psychiatry, too -- everything from the history of psychiatry's takeover from the Inquisition (from Dr. Thomas Szasz's monumental Manufacture of Madness: A Comparative Study of the Inquisition and the Mental Health Movement) to Dr. Peter Breggin's writings on the Nazi "doctors" of the Holocaust. Yes, you're right - it's all documented history for the reading. And I hope more people do take a look at that history. We can't know why we're at the place we're currently at without knowing the history. 

 

 

15 hours ago, gigi63 said:

I am going to plan on incorporating my bike this June.  I bought a beautiful new bike last year this time but due to dizziness and brain fog, only got on twice briefly.

 

It's great to have something to look forward to. I'm sure you'll get back to biking, if not in June, then when your symptoms allow. Healing is frustratingly slow, but it does get better. 


Drug free May 22, 2015 after 30 years of neuroleptics, benzos, z-drugs, so-called "anti"-depressants, and amphetamines 

 

My Success Story:  Shep's Success: "Leaving Plato's Cave"

 

And what is good, Phaedrus, and what is not good — need we ask anyone to tell us these things? ~ Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice, but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

 

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Malon

@Shep
Thank you for sharing your success story. You have been through so much! You can be so proud of yourself for surviving all of this. Really inspiring and encouraging story. You need to be very strong for surviving all of this.
Life can be so brutal and its sad how much people/ society/ life can harm us and let us suffer.
I am wishing you that now without the drugs and WD you can have a better and a happy life. Do you feel some profundity, spiritually, calmness and strength because of all the pain? For me it feels a bit like this from time to time.

May I ask you in which pattern your fatigue improved? Its my major symptom now on my recovery road.


AD since 2006 (16 years old). Prescribed on Citalopram, Fluoxetin(2x), Opipramol, Paroxetin. All with CT except Paroxetin (fast taper).
Last medication was Paroxetin for 3 years. Tapered fast (big mistake):
- October 2018: 10mg -> 5mg
- December 2018: 5mg -> 2,5mg
- February 2019: 2,5mg -> 1,25mg
- March 2019: 1,25mg -> 1 mg
Since May 2019: 0 mg

Supplements:
- Omega 3 (2200mg EPA + DHA )                                   - Vitamin D 2500 i.u. and Vitamin K2 100 µg           - Vitamin B12 (500 mcg)
- Zinc (8 mg)                                                                       - Magnesium-Bisglycinat (100mg elemantal Mg)   - Folat (200mcg)
16 months off. Major symptom now is severe fatigue and back pain. Link to my introduction: https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/21876-malon-14-years-of-ssri-since-youth-last-was-paroxetin/?tab=comments#comment-486450

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hennie86

Shep I want to thank you so much for helping me so much and I am really inspired of your success story. Your support has meaned a lot for me.  You have helped me a lot to get this far in benzo tapering with your advices, and I have learned techniques to cope with symptoms and get through horrible waves.

Thank you so much. 🙂 Hopefully I will have a success story some day when I am finally med free.

 

Hennie

 

 


2005-2009 Lexapro 10-20mg & Remeron 7,5mg: cold turkey

2010 tried Venlafaxine (month),  2014 6 days Cipro(antibiotics) adverse reaction

2011-2012 Seroquel 25mg (8 months) & 2011-2015 Lexapro 10-20mg (tapered off during 4 months)

2015-2016 (all these drugs during 9 months,did not tolerate most of them ) : tried Remeron. Tried to reinstate Lexapro 3 months after quitting it: fail. Akathisia, insomnia. Then went to hospital: Zyprexa10mg, Sodium Valproate, Temazepam(20mg), Oxazepam 30-45 mgs. switching meds: Seroquel 50-100mg, Oxazepam  30-45mg , Temazepam 20mg. Then back to Zyprexa 10mg, Temazepam20mg, doctor took me off Oxazepam fast. Then Zyprexa 20mg, Temazepam 20mg, melatonin10mg ( sometimes very rarely Valium 10 mg.) Zyprexa: cold turkey because Zyprexa 20 mg made akathisia intolerable after every dose. After it insomnia, 24/7 akathisia. Bad reactions to supplements

2016 spring daily  Valium 15mg>0mg (used for 4,5 months and during that time slowly tapered off), Temazepam 40 mg > 25 mg (tapered in 3 months)

2016 summer Temazepam 25 mg > 20 mg, melatonin 2,5 mg

2016 november Melatonin 0,5 mg, Temazepam 20 mg.  Started tapering again.

2020 march (microtapering) Temazepam 4,5 mg Supplements: probiotics, magnesium oil occasionally, melatonin 0,5 mg

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Rosetta

I have always found you to be so gracious.  I would not have imagined that you had been wronged at an early age, wronged by so many nor that you struggled for numerous years yet emerged as a kind, compassionate, and giving person.  That is nothing short of a miracle, Shep.  What I have seen you do for members of SA through your loving guidance in the benzo forum and in other areas here gives me so much hope that people can heal not only physically, but spiritually.  That you have avoided the effects of a bitterness such an experience would commonly engender is not only fortunate for you but for all with whom you come in contact.  I hope you live a long, peaceful and joyful life, Shep.

 

Yours,

Rosetta


https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/16629-rosetta-ct-may-2011-too-fast-taper-feb-2017/?page=25

2001-2011 Celexa 10 mg raised to 40 mg then 60 mg over this time period

May 2011 OB Doctor's Cold switch Celexa 60 mg to 10 mg Zoloft sertraline (baby born)

2012-2016 - Doctors raised dose of Zoloft up to 150 mg

2016 - Xanax prescribed - as needed - 0.5 mg about every 3 days (bad reaction)

2016 - Stopped Xanax

Late 2016- Began (too fast) taper of Zoloft

Early 2017 - Trazodone prescribed for bedtime (doseage unknown)

Feb 2017 - Completed taper/stopped Trazodone

Drug free since Feb 2017

2017 - Unisom otc very rarely for sleep

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xyz

Shep, are you okay? you haven't been on here in a while....


june 2014 to feb  2015- on xanax 0.25 to 1mg/day- then CT - jan 2016 - panic attack, went on 3.75mg remeron to sleep march 2016- CT remeron (because it caused me tinnitus)- deep depression, couldn't sleep because of  intrusive Tinnitus

april to june 2016- valium 4mg, xanax as needed, lunesta 3mg

june 2016 - valium 4mg, lexapro 10mg

oct 2016- valium 2mg, lexapro 10mg- hold

march 2017- started daily micro liquid taper of valium and lex- -taper speed 0.0033mg valium daily and 0.033mg lex daily

may 2018- valium 1mg, lexapro 2.4mg - i had to slow down the rate of my daily micro taper considerably

LAST dose of Lexapro: 0.05mg on 05/17/19

LAST dose of valium: 0.04mg on 08/18/19

April 26th 2020- intense panic attack that lasted 4 days, akatisia, 0 sleep- suicidal, almost hospitalized- took rescue doses over 2 days- total: 1.5mg xanax, 18mg valium, 2x5mg lexapro

 

 

 

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Frogie
12 minutes ago, xyz said:

Shep, are you okay? you haven't been on here in a while....

Shep is on leave for a while.

 

Take care,

 Frogie xx


PREVIOUS medications and discontinuations: Have been on medications since 1996. 

 Valium, Gabapentin, Lamictal and Prilosec from 2000 to 2015 with a fast taper by a psychiatrist.

 Liquid Lexapro Nov, 2016 to 31-March, 2019 Lexapro free!!! (total Lexapro taper was 4 years-started with pill form)

---CURRENT MEDICATIONS:Supplements:Milk Thistle, Metamucil, Magnesium Citrate, Vitamin D3

 Xanax 1mg three times a day June, 2000 to 19-September, 2020 Went from .150 grams (average weight of 1 Xanax) three times a day to .003 grams three times a day.

19-September, 2020 Xanax free!!!

 

 

I am not a medical professional. The suggestions I make are based on personal experience.

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Moonpie

Beautiful Shep!   What a testimony.  With all you have been through, thanking you for your compassion, sharing, and wisdom to help us!!! 

 


1.5 mg Ativan - .5 mg  three x daily -start date 9/16 - taper start 2/17.  1/07/2017 tapering A.m. and pm doses .001 every 4 days.  Prescribed for a thyroid medication mess up made thyroid go crazy for 8 months.
Also on Buspar .5 divided into 2 even doses AM and PM- Start date 9/2016 - Lexapro .PM - 5 mg start date 11/2016 increased to 10 mg 2/17.

Current: 3 doses  doses at 8AM - 2 PM and bedtime (varies) reduced from pill weight  from .069 to .035 on each dose. Tapering .001 every 4 days of midday dose.  As of 1-29-2018 .011 - AM and PM dose .030, holding. 

Current, 5/2/18: Ativan a.m. dose .030 and p.m. dose .018 (tapering by weight. ) Tapered off midday dose 3-15-18. Tapered off p.m. dose 7-16-18. Over half way tapering off last dose - morning dose. All other med doses remain the same. OFF ATIVAN! 11-16-2018

Very very sensitive to Ativan. 

1-1-2019 Began tapering Lexapro.  .001 mmg every 4 days. 9-15-19 At .093 in weight from beginning weight of .152.  Still tapering .001 every 4 days 1-1-2020 .069

N.P. Desiccated Thyroid.  12-22-17 reduced  from  75 mg. to 67.5 daily  Bio-identical female hormones. Bi-est/Prog cream 1 time daily.  .04-6-2020 Lexapro at .050 in weight. Buspar .5 divided into 2 doses am and pm  4-22-2020 Lexapro taper .047  6-15-2020 Lexapro taper .037  8-21-2020 .020

My intro: Moonpie:. Need help and supporting tapering off of Ativan

My benzo thread: Moonpie: Need help Ativan weight tapering

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Amira123

Did you suffer from despersonalization, brain fog, unable to concerntrate, lack of creativity and imagination, have you fully recovered from these symptoms? and if yes, how long did it take to fully recover from them?

Did you feel disconnected from life and people and do you feel more connected now?

 

I am sorry for asking alot if questions but these are the symptoms i suffer from and i find them scary


Cymbalta 30 mg- 60 mg 

June 2016- October 2018 ( Cold Turkey) 

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Happy2Heal
On 5/25/2020 at 4:45 PM, Gridley said:

@Shep

 

A powerful and utterly uplifting account, beautifully written.  Thank you for this beacon.  You have helped so many, myself included.  You are my heroine.

what Grildley said !!!!

 

You are incredible Shep!! I have long admired your selflessness, courage, intelligence, perceptiveness, and utter grace in the face of such horrors that you've endured 

 

I am so thrilled to see your success story, but in my mind, you've been a success all along.

I'm glad your experiences are catching up and that you're feeling better.

I had a very short bout of DP/DR and it was so scary. I've actually avoided reading your thread sometimes because it made me feel so bad for you,  having that as a main symptom.

I wanted to make it go away you, and of course I couldn't, so it only frustrated me and made me incredibly sad for you. 

 

I hope that any waves you have are tiny and very short and that when they are over, you are tossed up onto a much higher level of being healed. you so deserve this.

❤️

 

 

 


  • pysch med history: 1974 @ age 18 to Oct 2017 (approx 43 yrs total)
  •  Drug list: stelazine, haldol, elavil, lithium, zoloft, celexa, lexapro(doses as high as 40mgs), klonopin, ambien, seroquel(high doses), depakote, zyprexa, lamictalBrief trials of dozens of other psych meds over the years
  • started lexapro 2002, dose varied from 20mgs to 40mgs. I tried to get off it several times. WD symptoms were mistaken for "relapse". 
  •  2013 tapered down to 5mg but WD forced me back to 20mgs
  •  June of 2105, tapered again, too rapidly to 2.5mgs by Dec 2015. Found SA, held at 2.5 mgs til May 2016 when I foolishly "jumped off". Crashed in Sept, reinstated at 0.3mgs in Oct. 2106
  • Tapered off to zero by  Oct. 2017 Doing very well
  • Nov. 2018 feel 95% healed, current age 63 
  • Jan. 2020 feel 100% healed, peaceful and content 
 

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Melissa5000

What a beautiful succes story! Thanks a lot for sharing your story!

 

I also love to ride a bike! I ride an ebike now because I am still to weak for my regular bike. But it gives you so much freedom. I love it for transportation and grocery shopping.

I hope to ride on my old regular bike again some day in the future.

 

I train on a stationary exercise bike at home. I hope to develop more muscle tissue and slow down my nervepain by training . 

 

It improves very slowly for me by gentle training. It goes with ups and downs. 

I feel it helps.

 

Your story is very inspiring! Thanks again!


2019 2.1 mg amitriptyline ,15th july 2.1 mg, 22-7 2.09 mg, 29-7 2.08 mg, 5-8 2.09 mg , 7-8 2.1 mg . 2020 Holding at 2.1 mg

2019 125 mg lyrica, 15th july 124,5 mg, 22-7 124 mg, 29-7 123,5 mg, 4-8 124 mg 2020 holding at 124 mg

2015 january building up my medication to 450 mg lyrica and 50 mg amitriptyline for face ache after a rootcanal treatment at the dentist. 2016 february start tapering lyrica from 450 mg to 200 mg 2016 october tapered 25 mg amitriptyline to 25 mg 2017 tapered lyrica from 200 mg to 100 mg 2017 september tapered my last tablet of 25 mg amitriptyline to zero  (horrible muscle pain started) 2018 february tapered lyrica from 100 mg to 75 mg (my muscle pain got worse and I have a lot of nervepain in my arms and legs, sometimes all over musclepain and nerve pain and burning pain) 2018 may reinstated 25 mg lyrica. My current dose is 100 mg lyrica. My pain is still very bad but a little less intense, my mood improved. 2018 since 22th may updose amitriptyline.  9 beads. 2018 june updosing lyrica. 2018 16 th june 125 mg lyrica and 9 beads amitriptyline ( 2mg) Now I'm doing a long hold. I can't taper anymore. Too much pain. I hope to stabilize and improve while holding. I'm trying graded activity to get rid of my pain. 2019 1 jan. Lyrica 125 mg (holding) 2019 1 jan. Amitriptyline tapering from 9 beads to 8 beads (1 jan. 2019),  8,5 beads (5 jan 19), 9 beads (16 jan 19) tapper attempt failed

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xyz

Did Shep have a setback?


june 2014 to feb  2015- on xanax 0.25 to 1mg/day- then CT - jan 2016 - panic attack, went on 3.75mg remeron to sleep march 2016- CT remeron (because it caused me tinnitus)- deep depression, couldn't sleep because of  intrusive Tinnitus

april to june 2016- valium 4mg, xanax as needed, lunesta 3mg

june 2016 - valium 4mg, lexapro 10mg

oct 2016- valium 2mg, lexapro 10mg- hold

march 2017- started daily micro liquid taper of valium and lex- -taper speed 0.0033mg valium daily and 0.033mg lex daily

may 2018- valium 1mg, lexapro 2.4mg - i had to slow down the rate of my daily micro taper considerably

LAST dose of Lexapro: 0.05mg on 05/17/19

LAST dose of valium: 0.04mg on 08/18/19

April 26th 2020- intense panic attack that lasted 4 days, akatisia, 0 sleep- suicidal, almost hospitalized- took rescue doses over 2 days- total: 1.5mg xanax, 18mg valium, 2x5mg lexapro

 

 

 

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ShiningLight

@Shep I loved reading this. I am thrilled for you and eternally grateful for your helping me dodge the klonopin bullet. For this, I have a special place in my heart for you. I love reading the success stories of people like myself who have been drugged for decades! Your story gives me hope.


Now: Gabapentin 31 mg 4x/day =124 mg, 150 mg Zoloft am since 2004, 50 mg Trazodone bedtime.  Daily drug burden decreased from 2050 mg to 324 mg 🐢🐢

2020, Gabapentin each dose 4x/day: Aug 20 31 mg, Aug 18, 33 mg, July 29, 35 mg, July 23 38 mg, July 22 40 mg Jun 24 42 mg, Jun 15 44 mg, Jun 9 48 mg, May 22 50 mg, May 14 54 mg, May 7 56 mg, Apr 16 58 mg, Mar 28 60 mg, Mar 18 62 mg. Feb 26 64 mg. Feb 19, 66 mg. Jan 23, 70 mg.

2019 Dec 19, 72 mg. Nov 14 ,76 mg. Aug 8, 80 mg. Aug 6, 85 mg. Jul 26, 90 mg. Jul 11, 95 mg.

Jul 16 trazodone from 100 to 50 mg.

Jun 17-July 10 Slowly changed gab fr pill to liquid at same dose 100 mg 4x/d.

Apr 24 Stopped klon!!! 🌞 Apr 4  Decreased gaba to 400 mg (100 mg 4x/day)-Apr 4, 2019   0.25 klon

March 11  Klonopin .5 mg twice daily, varied dose til Apr 15. Started Klon fast taper 25%, short use

Mar 16, 450 mg gaba 3x/day cut 600 mg--not exact!--updose after learning w/d

Feb 20, 1800 mg gabapentin; MD taper; off 3 days=mvt disorder & autonomic instability. July 2018 temazepam 15 mg 1-2; prn several x/wk til Jan/Feb 2019 when cold turkey, flu illness for months

July 2018 started gabapentin 100 3x/day; titrated up to 1800 mg (600 3x/day)

Buspar, I forget how much, 2 pills a day Jan 2017-July 2018 cold turkey

*I speak from my experience. Nothing I say is medical advice. I'm not a doctor.

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Shep

Thanks for all of your messages.  As @Frogie noted earlier, I have been on break from the forum due to increased work responsibilities and other "real world" activities. I just stopped in for a quick update here on my thread. 

 

 

On 6/6/2020 at 1:33 PM, Malon said:

Do you feel some profundity, spiritually, calmness and strength because of all the pain? For me it feels a bit like this from time to time.

May I ask you in which pattern your fatigue improved? Its my major symptom now on my recovery road.

 

Yes, definite increases in spiritual connection. For me, as the akathisia left, the spiritual connection grew. And as the dp/dr fades out, the spiritual connection deepens even more. 

 

Can't say there were any patterns to improvements, though. Just slow and gradual with many setbacks along the way. The setbacks were opportunities to reach for more non-drug coping strategies. If you can look at setbacks with gratitude, it will replace fear over time. Easier said than done! 

 

On 6/12/2020 at 5:43 PM, hennie86 said:

Shep I want to thank you so much for helping me so much and I am really inspired of your success story. Your support has meaned a lot for me.  You have helped me a lot to get this far in benzo tapering with your advices, and I have learned techniques to cope with symptoms and get through horrible waves.

Thank you so much. 🙂 Hopefully I will have a success story some day when I am finally med free.

 

I know you're going to make it the other side and write a success story. No doubt about that, Hennie. You've built some great coping strategies along the way. 

 

On 6/13/2020 at 7:46 PM, Rosetta said:

I have always found you to be so gracious.  I would not have imagined that you had been wronged at an early age, wronged by so many nor that you struggled for numerous years yet emerged as a kind, compassionate, and giving person.  That is nothing short of a miracle, Shep.  What I have seen you do for members of SA through your loving guidance in the benzo forum and in other areas here gives me so much hope that people can heal not only physically, but spiritually.  That you have avoided the effects of a bitterness such an experience would commonly engender is not only fortunate for you but for all with whom you come in contact.  I hope you live a long, peaceful and joyful life, Shep.

 

Rosetta, thank you. This is beautiful.  It's a very long journey, but I also believe in both the physical and spiritual healing aspects of this journey. Thank you for your many posts on this forum where you've reminded us of this. 

 

On 6/15/2020 at 10:05 AM, Moonpie said:

Beautiful Shep!   What a testimony.  With all you have been through, thanking you for your compassion, sharing, and wisdom to help us!!! 

 

 

Thank you, Moonpie. I'm very glad this is helpful for you. 

 

On 6/15/2020 at 1:59 PM, Amira123 said:

Did you suffer from despersonalization, brain fog, unable to concerntrate, lack of creativity and imagination, have you fully recovered from these symptoms? and if yes, how long did it take to fully recover from them?

Did you feel disconnected from life and people and do you feel more connected now?

 

Yes, I did indeed have these symptoms. I recorded this in my benzo thread - Shep's Journey

 

I'm doing a lot better now. Really can't put a timeline on it, though. I'm still seeing improvements even after writing my success story! Yes, I do feel more connected now. 

 

On 6/18/2020 at 9:42 AM, Happy2Heal said:

I am so thrilled to see your success story, but in my mind, you've been a success all along.

 

Happy, you and I have a lot in common in how we ended up in psychiatry. I really enjoy reading your posts because of the perspective you bring, such as what I just quoted. Survival is indeed a success, even if healing isn't 100%. There's so much more to healing than the surface stuff. It's when hope meets wisdom and radical acceptance and you come out with peace of mind. That's the success. 

 

On 6/18/2020 at 10:35 AM, Melissa5000 said:

I also love to ride a bike! I ride an ebike now because I am still to weak for my regular bike. But it gives you so much freedom. I love it for transportation and grocery shopping.

I hope to ride on my old regular bike again some day in the future.

 

This is awesome, Melissa. Don't feel bad about riding an ebike. I just got an ebike a few weeks ago and I love it! I don't need public transportation now during the pandemic and I can go for 20 miles easily and not get tired. It's awesome. And ebikes are great for the environment. 

 

I kept my regular bike and still take it out from time to time. I'm sure you'll get back on your regular bike again. Ebikes still require some work, so you're keeping your muscles going as best as you can while you go through withdrawal. And you're out in the sun getting vitamin D, so keep riding!

 

On 7/12/2020 at 1:52 AM, xyz said:

Did Shep have a setback?

 

Nope, no setback. Just taking some time and space for my own recovery, especially as work requirements have increased during the pandemic. 

 

It's important that we all give ourselves time and space for extra self-care during these times. I like to think when folks take forum breaks it's because they need the real world more. And a lot of times, that's a GOOD thing! 

 

On 7/12/2020 at 10:24 PM, ShiningLight said:

@Shep I loved reading this. I am thrilled for you and eternally grateful for your helping me dodge the klonopin bullet. For this, I have a special place in my heart for you. I love reading the success stories of people like myself who have been drugged for decades! Your story gives me hope.

 

Well, all I did was suggest not continuing on with the Klonopin, but YOU did all the hard work!  So give yourself a ton of credit, SL. I'm glad you're getting hope here. 

 


Drug free May 22, 2015 after 30 years of neuroleptics, benzos, z-drugs, so-called "anti"-depressants, and amphetamines 

 

My Success Story:  Shep's Success: "Leaving Plato's Cave"

 

And what is good, Phaedrus, and what is not good — need we ask anyone to tell us these things? ~ Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice, but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

 

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Shep

A quick update for some key items from the past few weeks: 

 

I had some dental work done (a crown placed on a molar but thankfully, no root canal needed) and I tolerated the Novocaine. I'm no longer as scared of medications as I was earlier in withdrawal and I used regular strength Tylenol to help with pain and had no issues with it. It worked great and made it possible for me to sleep all night afterwards. 

 

Work is very busy with our reduced workforce, but I'm handling it very well and taking on more responsibilities. 

 

I bought an electric bike and have been spending weekends riding out to the river and getting away from the city. Very restorative. 

 

I tried adding in liquid vitamin D, but rushed it and had a brief setback (lots of internal vibrations). Will try again in a few weeks but will take less and go much slower when increasing it. 

 

Sleep is improving and I'm getting 6 - 7.5 hours most nights and it's very deep and restorative now. 

 

Reading more, especially novels - feeling connected to my emotions. I no longer feel I need to have music or the internet on in the evenings for company. This is the good part of recovery, the part that speaks from the soul - when you can sit in quiet, either reading or meditating, and the monkey mind is calm and centered. 

 

I still need more downtime due to the increased stress from the pandemic, but taking it as it comes and seeing more and more improvements as the waves ebb and flow with less intensity. 

 

This withdrawal experience is brutal, but it does prepare us for handling whatever comes our way, so don't give up! It's definitely worth it and it keeps getting better and better, even after the success story is written. 

 

 


Drug free May 22, 2015 after 30 years of neuroleptics, benzos, z-drugs, so-called "anti"-depressants, and amphetamines 

 

My Success Story:  Shep's Success: "Leaving Plato's Cave"

 

And what is good, Phaedrus, and what is not good — need we ask anyone to tell us these things? ~ Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice, but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

 

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Cocopuffz17

Amazing to hear Shep! You are so right with it has prepared us for anything life will throw at us. 


I follow The Plant Paradox lifestyle by Dr.Gundry. This lifestyle has given me my life back and I feel better than I have ever felt in my life. It has enabled me to finally get off of this medication and truly live my life. Nutrition is the key to health!!!!! 

 

2008 to 2019  - 20 mg Paroxetine

 

Attempted 2 CT's around the 5-6 year mark. Were absolutely terrible and reinstated. Was never explained by the doctor the seriousness of the short half life of this drug. 

 

2017 - Attempted a tapered discontinuation of this drug and reinstated after being unsuccessful.

 

2019 - Feb. 12 - After a three month taper I am off of paroxetine. The 3 months were terrible, awful withdrawal feelings. I followed the doctors guidelines for the reduction of this drug and now know it was way too fast. 
 

2019 - Oct. 12 - 8 months off paroxetine. 75% improvement since coming off the drug. Definitely have had tons of challenges along the way. Let’s go!!!! 

 

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Erell

Hello Shep 

 

I thank you for this very positive update !

You inspire me a lot : I was young when I started drugs, and like you I have to meet myself and create my own baseline.

 

You mentioned that you were unemployed during 9 months, being suicidal. You were living alone in a tiny flat.

 

I'm currently unemployed because of WD symptoms, and living alone. 

I'm wondering : how did you occupy neverending days during this hard time ?

How did you manage to keep hanging on while being suicidal and alone  ?

 

Thank you  🤗


2006 : 20mg Paroxetine + Bromazepam(no specific dose) 

2008 : cold turkey of both

2010 : 20mg Deroxat + Bromazepam(no specific dose) 

2013: Switch from Bromazepam To Prazepam (long half-life)

2014-June2017 : Prazepam taper, 3% drops. 

2018 to August 2019 : weaning Paroxetine 20mg. 3% every 15 days.

- 22nd August updosed To 10mg (was at 8.4mg) because of a big wave. 

25th Sept 2019 To April 2020 : found SA, holding at 10mg Paroxetine. 

 

April 2020-August 2020 : Paxil to Prozac bridge. Details https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/21457-erell-struggling-with-paroxetine/?do=findComment&comment=499847

 

Current Supplements : magnesium citrate/ fish oil/ evening primrose oil 

Current medication : 7mg Fluoxetine + 1mg Diazepam + toothpick Paroxetine 

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Shep
On 7/26/2020 at 7:55 PM, Cocopuffz17 said:

Amazing to hear Shep! You are so right with it has prepared us for anything life will throw at us. 

 

Thanks, Coco. Yes, this is the grand take-away! 


Drug free May 22, 2015 after 30 years of neuroleptics, benzos, z-drugs, so-called "anti"-depressants, and amphetamines 

 

My Success Story:  Shep's Success: "Leaving Plato's Cave"

 

And what is good, Phaedrus, and what is not good — need we ask anyone to tell us these things? ~ Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice, but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

 

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Shep
Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, Erell said:

I'm currently unemployed because of WD symptoms, and living alone. 

I'm wondering : how did you occupy neverending days during this hard time ?

How did you manage to keep hanging on while being suicidal and alone  ?

 

Let's break this down. Let's consider the fact that there wasn't a pandemic when I was in this state. So from this perspective, your journey is different than mine. At this time in our history, more and more people are unemployed now and many are facing very dark thoughts, so you are not alone in this. I think there are many opportunities for connection as the pandemic ends and people start to re-emerge from their social isolation. People will come out timid and unsure at first and hopefully, with more compassion. So there's lots of reasons for you to have hope that your own personal narrative will tie into other narratives that surround you. 

 

The best advice I can offer is to view this with curiosity. That's what got me through acute withdrawal when the dp/dr and dopamine sensitivity was raging. That and LOTS of Pink Floyd, LOL. The visuals needed a soundtrack! 

 

For suicidal thoughts, distraction is key. I posted earlier about being prepared for whatever comes our way. Those of us going through this - just like anyone going through something that profoundly changes their worldview - are going to view this with a much greater deepness of being, if that makes sense. That combined with our ability to distract and build solid, unbreakable non-drug coping skills that are building us up, not breaking us down. It's hard to see this when you're lost in the storm, but it's true. Trust those who've survived this when we say this. Come back to the success stories. 

 

But for those really acute states when your thoughts have been hijacked, distract, distract, distract. Walks, music, favorite internet shows (Netflix was a lifesaver), and reminders that this isn't a life sentence but a rough phase that will pass. And you will emerge stronger for the experience. 

Edited by Shep
fixed typo

Drug free May 22, 2015 after 30 years of neuroleptics, benzos, z-drugs, so-called "anti"-depressants, and amphetamines 

 

My Success Story:  Shep's Success: "Leaving Plato's Cave"

 

And what is good, Phaedrus, and what is not good — need we ask anyone to tell us these things? ~ Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice, but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

 

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Erell

Distraction, distraction, distraction...well that's my days 😉

And yes, quite glad I have a Netflix account !

 

Thank you for everything Shep ❤


2006 : 20mg Paroxetine + Bromazepam(no specific dose) 

2008 : cold turkey of both

2010 : 20mg Deroxat + Bromazepam(no specific dose) 

2013: Switch from Bromazepam To Prazepam (long half-life)

2014-June2017 : Prazepam taper, 3% drops. 

2018 to August 2019 : weaning Paroxetine 20mg. 3% every 15 days.

- 22nd August updosed To 10mg (was at 8.4mg) because of a big wave. 

25th Sept 2019 To April 2020 : found SA, holding at 10mg Paroxetine. 

 

April 2020-August 2020 : Paxil to Prozac bridge. Details https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/21457-erell-struggling-with-paroxetine/?do=findComment&comment=499847

 

Current Supplements : magnesium citrate/ fish oil/ evening primrose oil 

Current medication : 7mg Fluoxetine + 1mg Diazepam + toothpick Paroxetine 

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Moonpie

It is so good to see you back Shep! I understand about needing to take time off . You do so much for everyone on this site and give so much of yourself. You are such an inspiration and help in carrying on when things get rough. If Shep did then  I know I can too! I am happy you mentioned about distraction. I've been feeling very guilty about watching Amazon Prime and YouTube videos, basically just vegetating. It is definately a distraction!  I watch a lot of documentaries about people's lives in other countries and individual challenges. There are times everything is okay and then there are times I can't see the light at the end of tunnel. I'm finding there are so many variations with these drugs in the tapering that there are times I think,. am I going crazy. I was telling my daughter today I do not even want to think where I would be right now if I had not found this site. Thank you for all your support and help. Continuing to move on. At a snail's pace but moving LOL.


1.5 mg Ativan - .5 mg  three x daily -start date 9/16 - taper start 2/17.  1/07/2017 tapering A.m. and pm doses .001 every 4 days.  Prescribed for a thyroid medication mess up made thyroid go crazy for 8 months.
Also on Buspar .5 divided into 2 even doses AM and PM- Start date 9/2016 - Lexapro .PM - 5 mg start date 11/2016 increased to 10 mg 2/17.

Current: 3 doses  doses at 8AM - 2 PM and bedtime (varies) reduced from pill weight  from .069 to .035 on each dose. Tapering .001 every 4 days of midday dose.  As of 1-29-2018 .011 - AM and PM dose .030, holding. 

Current, 5/2/18: Ativan a.m. dose .030 and p.m. dose .018 (tapering by weight. ) Tapered off midday dose 3-15-18. Tapered off p.m. dose 7-16-18. Over half way tapering off last dose - morning dose. All other med doses remain the same. OFF ATIVAN! 11-16-2018

Very very sensitive to Ativan. 

1-1-2019 Began tapering Lexapro.  .001 mmg every 4 days. 9-15-19 At .093 in weight from beginning weight of .152.  Still tapering .001 every 4 days 1-1-2020 .069

N.P. Desiccated Thyroid.  12-22-17 reduced  from  75 mg. to 67.5 daily  Bio-identical female hormones. Bi-est/Prog cream 1 time daily.  .04-6-2020 Lexapro at .050 in weight. Buspar .5 divided into 2 doses am and pm  4-22-2020 Lexapro taper .047  6-15-2020 Lexapro taper .037  8-21-2020 .020

My intro: Moonpie:. Need help and supporting tapering off of Ativan

My benzo thread: Moonpie: Need help Ativan weight tapering

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Amira123

Shep, did the weird thoughts of people looking like mannequin and buildings looking weird go away? How do you feel now about people and the world? I read some posts of your thread and i can relate alot to these strange thoughts, i know they are not true but i can't imagine thinking about people and the world in a different or positive way. Do you have anything you want to tell me regarding this?. Thanks :)


Cymbalta 30 mg- 60 mg 

June 2016- October 2018 ( Cold Turkey) 

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composter
On 5/25/2020 at 7:48 AM, Shep said:

The “chemical imbalance” myth dominated the narrative because psychiatry replicates the patriarchal and paternalistic abuses of the nuclear family (and the larger political structure) within a medicalized context. This is not an accident. This is how the system is designed.


Powerful words here. I will add your book suggestions to my reading list. 
 

Amazing what an expert you have become with benzo tapering especially though you CT’d everything. (If I’m reading this correctly?)


Love how you organized the post and much congratulations on doing so well!


Apr 2018 - 10 mg Amitriptyline (Rx’d by neurologist for headaches & insomnia)

Jul + Aug 2018 - Reduced to 5 mg in July and then 2.5 mg in Aug (was too fast, hellish withdrawal at 2 weeks on 2.5 mg)

Sept 2018 - reinstated 10 mg Amitriptyline (emotional symptoms improved immediately, physical symptoms improved over time)

Oct 2018 - updosed to 11 mg Amitriptyline (compounded pills)

Stabilized in Apr 2019 (had 2 waves while stabilizing).

Began taper at rate of ~0.2 mg per month with liquid/dissolved taper. Current (Aug 2020) 5.3 mg.

 

Supplements: Omega-3 fish oil, Vit B12, coenzyme Q10, Hawthorn extract (for tachycardia)

Tools for insomnia/waves (as needed) : Epsom salt foot soaks, 0.5 mg Melatonin, quality time with supportive friends/family, remembering waves WILL PASS.

Lifestyle: Eat real foods, mostly plants; daily walking (30 min); track symptoms when needed on paper (adapted Glenmullen chart)

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Amira123

Sorry for asking alot of questions @Shep

did you have neuro-terror, neuro-fear and neuro-guilt during WD?


Cymbalta 30 mg- 60 mg 

June 2016- October 2018 ( Cold Turkey) 

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