Auroragirl: my intro

[Altostrata]

Please do not change the Prozac dosing, take the same amount at the same times each day.

[Auroragirl]

@Altostrata

Yes I am keeping the Prozac at the same dose

[Altostrata]

@Frogie, what are your suggestions for the benzo taper?

 

Please let us know how you're doing.

 

Edited August 10, 2020 by ChessieCat
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[Frogie]

 

On 7/8/2020 at 12:52 PM, Altostrata said:

@Frogie, what are your suggestions for the benzo taper?

 

Please let us know how you're doing.

 

 

As I mentioned to Auroragirl, unfortunately she learned a lesson not to take anyone’s prescription because now she has become dependent. I thought perhaps she could go to her dr and explain the situation and obtain a months worth to taper off. Because she hasn’t been on them that long she should be able to taper off quickly without too many problems.

 

@Altostrata what are your thoughts on this?

 

Thanks,

Frogie xx

 

Edited August 10, 2020 by ChessieCat
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[Auroragirl]

I tapered off the benzo in 3 days and now haven't had any for 4 days and I feel fine@Altostrata@Frogie

[Frogie]

Good to hear. Maybe you were able to get off them before you became dependent on them. Hopefully you won't have any wd symptoms later on. Keep us posted.

 

Edited August 10, 2020 by ChessieCat
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[Gridley]

  

On 7/8/2020 at 10:41 PM, Auroragirl said:

I tapered off the benzo in 3 days and now haven't had any for 4 days

 

That's excellent.

Edited August 10, 2020 by ChessieCat
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[ChessieCat]

Very good news.  Please remember to try not to panic if things do go backwards a little bit.  We strongly encouragement members to learn and use non drug coping techniques to get through tough times. 

 

Non-drug techniques to cope

 

Claire Weekes' Method of Recovering from a Sensitized Nervous System

 

Female voice:  https://www.getselfhelp.co.uk/music/FirstAidPanicF.mp3

Male voice:  https://www.getselfhelp.co.uk/music/FirstAidPanicM.mp3

 

 

 

Edited July 9, 2020 by ChessieCat

[Auroragirl]

Does anyone have a theory as to why all withdrawal symptoms don't go away upon reinstatement... maybe something more specific than "nervous system dysregulation"? Are there any articles written by doctors out there about this particular topic? I'd like to speak to my doctor about my experiences and I'm preparing for all the arguments he is going to give me about why my problems aren't withdrawal-induced. I can see one possible argument being, "If quitting Prozac caused you all these problems then they would go away when you reinstated?" Of course I am not expecting to win this argument or change his mind but I still think it's important to make him aware of what I'm going through. Maybe if he gets more patients like me he will eventually start to believe it. 

[Altostrata]

It is extremely well known, even among doctors, that withdrawal symptoms go away upon reinstatement. Every single paper about withdrawal says this. It is printed in your drug package insert.

 

Withdrawal symptoms arise from the absence of the drug. All psychotropics have the following neurological effects when ingested regularly: adaptation, physical dependence, withdrawal. Withdrawal symptoms are from re-adaptation. Put the drug back, the system returns to its prior homeostasis (stability).

[Auroragirl]

Ok I thought you guys usually say reinstatement doesn't always work to stop withdrawal symptoms. 

[Altostrata]

It usually works, but it doesn't always work.

[Auroragirl]

Does anyone know or have a theory doesn't it always work? 

Besides just wanting to get my doctor to understand (useless I know) I would also like to convince my close family and friends of what is going on with me. It feels so lonely when everyone thinks your crazy. Sometimes I get them to finally buy into the withdrawal part but then they say, well if you started taking it again why do you still have some of the withdrawal symptoms? Then I feel dumb for not having an answer and they don't believe me and I'm to feeling alienated and embarrassed 

[Auroragirl]

  

On 8/3/2020 at 11:58 PM, Auroragirl said:

Does anyone know or have a theory doesn't it always work? 

 

*Correction 

Does anyone know or have a theory on why reinstatement doesn't always work?

 

Edited August 10, 2020 by ChessieCat
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[ChessieCat]

It's because once you have experienced withdrawal symptoms your nervous system may have become sensitised.  Some members reinstate and can go back to their previous stability.  Other members reinstate and their symptoms reduce but they don't return to their previous stability.  That is why SA states that you can't rely on reinstatement or updosing as a solution to tapering/stopping too quickly.

 

The idea of reinstatement isn't to get rid of withdrawal symptoms completely but to bring them to a bearable level.

 

On 10/9/2012 at 10:17 AM, Altostrata said:

• Reinstatement may not immediately eliminate all withdrawal symptoms. It takes time to stabilize, you may still experience waves of symptoms, which usually lessen as time goes on. Give your nervous system time to settle down, be patient after you reinstate, do not leap to increase the dosage.
• Think in terms of months before you attempt to taper again. Once you feel withdrawal symptoms are reduced after reinstatement, give your nervous system time to stabilize before attempting dosage reduction. Do not attempt to taper again until you feel symptom-free, or at least until your withdrawal symptoms are mild, predicatable, and tolerable.

 

[ChessieCat]

  

On 8/3/2020 at 11:58 PM, Auroragirl said:

I would also like to convince my close family and friends of what is going on with me. It feels so lonely when everyone thinks your crazy. Sometimes I get them to finally buy into the withdrawal part but then they say, well if you started taking it again why do you still have some of the withdrawal symptoms?

 

helping-family-understand

 

withdrawal-dialogues-encouragement

 

Edited August 10, 2020 by ChessieCat
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[Altostrata]

Reinstatement doesn't always work because there are 8 billion humans on this planet and each has a different nervous system.

[Auroragirl]

Ok I get that. I was just hoping for something with a bit more scientific explanation to it so I don't have to sound like a crazy person. You're not very comforting or reassuring to us who are still suffering. Your comments are so harsh and terse. Like you're annoyed I even asked. 

8 hours ago, ChessieCat said:

 

helping-family-understand

 

withdrawal-dialogues-encouragement

 

Thank you

[ChessieCat]

Reinstatement

 

Stability

 

one-theory-of-antidepressant-withdrawal-syndrome

 

how-psychiatric-drugs-remodel-your-brain

 

Video:  Healing From Antidepressants - Patterns of Recovery

 

what-is-happening-in-your-brain

 

[Erell]

 

unfortunately, big pharma, doctors, psychiatrists, ... don't believe in our paradigm and explain our symptoms by our "illness".

As CNS destabilisation by psych drugs is denied, we don't benefit from rigorous independent scientific studies.

So all we can do is make guesses. But, thanks to SA, we benefit from thousands of testimonies and are able to highlight patterns and identify what might work best.

 

Actually, this is also one of the purposes of this website : all the testimonies and journey shared here are big data to study.

 

You can take a look at this section and maybe you'll find what you're looking for : 

 

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/forum/16-from-journals-and-scientific-sources/

 

Take care ❤️

 

Edited August 10, 2020 by ChessieCat
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[Auroragirl]

@Longestroadhome thank you so much I appreciate your response and recommendations.  Unfortunately I can't read books right now. I can't concentrate and I don't absorb any information. It's completely useless 😭

 

[ChessieCat]

You might find some helpful information on this site:  http://cepuk.org/

[ShiningLight]

Welcome! I would encourage you to spend a lot of time exploring the threads and reading on this site. A lot of the questions you are asking are discussed at length. There's a treasure trove of information here.

 

I am worried about you mentioning several different drugs in such a short time, including alcohol, xanax, potentially ativan... Every time you add a new drug or change a drug dose or even the method of administration (pill, liquid, etc) your nervous system gets a jolt and has to readjust itself. This is on top of the original jolt with the Prozac. Even if the reason for the new drug is trying to get other symptoms to "go away" it is still an adjustment your brain has to make.

 

To be clear, I think you are getting good advice here regarding what to do. On top of that, I would encourage you to think about changing your relationship to these drugs.  They should not be viewed as quick fixes. Sometimes people switch around drugs trying to make a bad withdrawal situation better (for example when you added the xanax--I did something similar out of desperation), but instead they get deeper and deeper into the quicksand of an iatrogenic brain injury. I don't want to see you go down that path. Just remember that making drug changes is not something to take lightly. The way you were talking about it was concerning me so I wanted to say that.

 

  

Edited August 10, 2020 by ChessieCat
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[Auroragirl]

I'm feeling so lost and don't know what to do. After 8 months off Prozac, by symptoms were increasingly getting worse.

 

I made the decision to reinstate. I took 5mg for 5 days, then went up to 20mg for about a week, back down to 5mg for a week, and then to 10mg where I've been for a month. I know, this was too much change, too fast.

 

I thought I was getting better after reinstatement. My digestion improved and I started sleeping better. My mood also improved but maybe that was a placebo. Now my sleep and mood are horrible again, and digestion is still better. 

 

I don't know if I'm supposed to keep increasing my dose and see if it helps, or just give up and taper back off again more slowly. I'm aware the advice is to stabilize first before making any further changes. I can't tell if I'm stable. It's hard to differentiate between normal mood fluctuations and withdrawal induced instability. 

[sunnysideup69]

Hello- I just read your thread  I'd hazard a guess that what you're experiencing, is drug related instability...Really, the best thing to do is to hold and stabilise. Which can take quite a long time....I've been holding a year, for example. That's not necessarily going to be you. The more changes you make at this point, the worse you're going to feel, most likely, so the best thing is to play the waiting game, eat healthily etc. and wait for stabilisation. 

 

There are lots of suggested threads above, it's really worth forgetting about making any more changes, and just settling in and reading some of them. I would trust the advice that you get here, as it's been tried and tested on thousands of people. It's also worth remembering that docs/psychs themselves don't really know exactly what these drugs do to/in the brain...which is why certain questions just don't have one definitive answer.

 

As someone who spent the best part of a year flailing around trying to switch dosage around etc. just to stop feeling awful, I highly recommend that you stop and don't take that route. The thing that has helped me stabilise is time and making no changes.

 

 

[Auroragirl]

I want to get off the Prozac. I think I made a mistake reinstating. I reinstated a couple months ago and it hasn't helped. Do I need to go down by 10% each month now? This whole thing is going to take 2 more yeaes just to get back down to 0 where I already was?! I'm absolutely devastated. I should have kept pushing through. I thought I might get lucky and reinstating could help after 8 months but I'm afraid I was wrong. 

[Auroragirl]

I didn't realize I had PSSD until after I reinstated. I have 0 libido and genital anesthesia. By reinstating I've added YEARS onto the amount of time until I can have a relationship again. I'm 32 and it will be too late to have kids by the time I recover from PSSD. I'm so heart broken. 

[Auroragirl]

Reinstating 10mg Prozac is causing me to have bad akathisia. I can't stop pacing through my house and I bawl my eyes out the entire time. I've been at this dose around 6 weeks. The akathisia got bad about 2 weeks ago. It seems I have delayed reactions to dose increases. I guess because of the long half-life it must really build up slowly? I need to get off of this poison. 

[Altostrata]

On 7/6/2020 at 2:55 PM, Altostrata said:

Please do not change the Prozac dosing, take the same amount at the same times each day.

 

If I were you, I'd reduce to 5mg and stay there for a good while. It takes weeks for Prozac to have full effect.

 

You didn't give 5mg enough of a chance, now that 10mg has ramped up, it's too strong for you.

[Auroragirl]

@Altostrata

Ok thank God. I thought I was going to have to wait for a while at 10mg and then start the 10% taper. I appreciate it. 

 

I know I went faster than you guys recommended. But I spoke to Dr. Shipko and he recommended starting at 5mg and go up 5mg a week until I feel better. I was prepared to go back to my full original dose forever if necessary to avoid this long withdrawal process but now I see it's not possible for me. I guess there is no going back now. 

[Altostrata]

It could be the best dose for you right now is between 5mg and 10mg. If you want, you can try 7.5mg.

[composter]

Hi there! Best wishes for your reinstatement and hope you feel more stable soon. 
 

I wanted to ask since I’ve read your thread but haven’t seen anything on this: How are you preparing your smaller (5 mg) doses? It’s important you have a method that makes the doses very precise each time so that your nervous system is not thrown off by any minute changes. On SA we recommend techniques like using a jeweler’s scale or preparing a liquid solution. 

 

For your reference:
 

 

Edited August 13, 2020 by composter

[Auroragirl]

8 hours ago, Altostrata said:

It could be the best dose for you right now is between 5mg and 10mg. If you want, you can try 7.5mg.

Yes that's a possibility. I don't know... I'm just so anxious to get off this. I feel like reinstatement is a lost cause because I was off for 8 months. How often does it help people who waited so long?

[Auroragirl]

48 minutes ago, composter said:

How are you preparing your smaller (5 mg) doses?

Hi, I am using a scale. I plan on asking for liquid in a couple weeks at my next doctor appointment. Afraid of her reaction when she hears I want to taper so slowly. She also knows I quit already and "had a relapse" (I didn't bother trying to educate her) So she's not going to understand why I'm doing it again. 

[Altostrata]

We would not suggest reinstatement if we didn't think it would help.

 

Any doctor can prescribe the liquid, it doesn't have to be a psychiatrist. If your psychiatrist is not helpful, take her off the payroll.

[Auroragirl]

How am I supposed to handle akathisia? This is just awful. I can't take it anymore. I need coping mechanisms or some way to take the edge off of it.