MindDrift: olanzapine / Zyprexa withdrawal, then Citalopram withdrawal

September 17, 2020

Citalopram taper

Hi everyome.

Hoping this message finds you all well today.

Jumped off of Olanzapine, after quite a quick taper, just over three months ago & am 95% back to normal existence now.

Still on 20mg daily of Citalopram and I'm starting to think about addressing the issue of coming off with an appropriate taper.

Might now be a good time to start my Citalopram taper? Would be intererested to hear some experience & get some feedback & guidance on this please.

Thanks in advance.

x

Edited September 17, 2020 by ChessieCat
added topic title

September 17, 2020

Because of your fast taper off olanzapine it might be a good idea to hold for at least 6 months (from 8 May 2020) before thinking about starting to taper citalopram. It's better to hold for longer and start from a nice firm foundation than to risk tapering too soon.

And when you do start to taper my suggestion would be to do a test reduction of a small amount (no more than 2.5% reduction) to see how you respond. This way, if it happens that your brain hasn't fully recovered from the olanzapine taper then any withdrawal symptoms will hopefully be minor and you could then hold for longer. If after reducing you only experience minimal withdrawal symptoms, or none at all, then after 2 weeks you could try reducing by a larger amount.

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

Dr Joseph Glenmullen's WD Symptoms Checklist

Tips for tapering off citalopram (Celexa)

Edited September 17, 2020 by ChessieCat

September 17, 2020

Congratulations on getting off olanzapine. That is quite a feat. I am still trying but hopefully will get there in the end. Had to slow my taper and updose slightly as symptoms weren’t improving and were getting unbearable.
I wish you good luck with your Citalopram taper when you start. In the meantime enjoy being olanzapine free!

September 19, 2020

On 9/17/2020 at 5:21 PM, BadMedicine said:

Congratulations on getting off olanzapine. That is quite a feat. I am still trying but hopefully will get there in the end. Had to slow my taper and updose slightly as symptoms weren’t improving and were getting unbearable.
I wish you good luck with your Citalopram taper when you start. In the meantime enjoy being olanzapine free!

September 19, 2020

Thanks BadMedicine!

It was definitely a process, and not that easy in places.

Three & a half months down the line & physically I'm mostly ok now. Mentally & emotionally still having to relearn how to do some things. Maybe it's my CNS still resetting itself?

It's been suggested on here that I wait for a bit before attempting the Citalopram taper, so that's what I'm going to do.

Thanks for you messages of support, it's much appreciated my friend.

Good luck with your taper!

x

January 17, 2021

Citalopram Taper

Did my olanzapine taper, which is documented in my intro, starting last June. CNS felt pretty much back to normal by Christmas so started on my citalopram taper a few weeks ago. I know this is quick, but i did it the same way with the olanzapine & it was fine. Been taking 20mg daily for 13 years and halved the dose about three weeks ago. Had some minor adjustment type withdrawals, which faded after a day or two, but nothing really, pretty much the same as my olanzapine taper. Held for 10 days then halved the dose again about a week ago. I plan to hold for a few weeks now before reducing again. Starting to feel the withdrawal symptoms a bit more than I remember them being, at the same stage, with my olanzapine detox. Got some brain zaps, mildly aching legs, feeling waves of being tired, worn out & generally a bit under the weather.

The thing I really wanted to ask is: What seems to be the general consensus between olanzapine & citalopram withdrawal? Any major differences?

Thanks! x

Edited January 19, 2021 by manymoretodays
added title, merged from tapering forum

January 17, 2021

Citalopram/Olanzapine Taper

Hi everyone. Anybody got any relevant experience of the differences between Olanzapine & Citalopram taper/ detox/ withdrawal etc?

Thanks! x

Edited January 19, 2021 by manymoretodays
merged from tapering, title added

January 19, 2021

Hi MindDrift, and welcome back, @MindDrift

I just got your most recent posts, of Sunday, merged in here, with your Introduction topic for now.

And how are you doing now.

Are you wanting to start your Citalopram taper yet, or have you?

Those are great questions. I think that sometimes there are differences in the experiences, of those tapering, and then withdrawing from different medications, like yours.

The AP WD and the AD WD.

But, I personally think that the process of tapering, is about the same for both.

Our harm reduction strategy: Why taper by 10 % of my dosage?

I'm interested in how you are doing now?

And then if you want any help with your citalopram taper, would be glad to help with that too.

And then hoping, that maybe one of our more data oriented members or moderators might chime in too, here, as far as your questions go.

And best, L, P, H, and G,

mmt

January 20, 2021

21 hours ago, manymoretodays said:

Hi MindDrift, and welcome back, @MindDrift

I just got your most recent posts, of Sunday, merged in here, with your Introduction topic for now.

And how are you doing now.

Are you wanting to start your Citalopram taper yet, or have you?

Those are great questions. I think that sometimes there are differences in the experiences, of those tapering, and then withdrawing from different medications, like yours.

The AP WD and the AD WD.

But, I personally think that the process of tapering, is about the same for both.

Our harm reduction strategy: Why taper by 10 % of my dosage?

I'm interested in how you are doing now?

And then if you want any help with your citalopram taper, would be glad to help with that too.

And then hoping, that maybe one of our more data oriented members or moderators might chime in too, here, as far as your questions go.

And best, L, P, H, and G,

mmt

Hi Manymoretodays.

Thanks for your message!

Was on 20mg for 13 years, halved the dose about three weeks ago. Had some minor adjustment type withdrawals, which faded after a day or two, but nothing really, pretty much the same as my olanzapine taper. Held for 10 days then halved the dose again about ten days ago. I plan to hold for a few weeks now before reducing again. Got some brain zaps, mildly aching legs, feeling waves of being tired, worn out & generally a bit under the weather but last couple of days it's got better. Prob going to hold now for a couple of weeks before coming down again. I'm down to 5mg daily now. I'm disolving 20mg tablet in water & administering the 5mg dose in an oral syringe. God, the stuff tastes awful! i know that it's suggested to drop 10% with each reduction but I'm going to try to do this taper/ detox the same way I did with Olanzapine, & even though it was quick, I was able to get through it. I'm going to try to reduce to 2.5mg, hold for a couple of weeks then jump off. Done lots of detoxes over the years, mostly heroin & other synthetic opiates so realise that there's always going to be symptoms when clear of the drug, no matter how gradual the taper. My Olanzapine experience was that it took about 6 months for my CNS to mostly to reset so, with this Citalopram detox, I'm hoping it'll be around the same time. I'd like to be almost fully readjusted to functioning without the drug by the summer. None of this is set in stone obvs, and if I need to reinstate at any stage, or go back & do things slightly slower, then I will. x

January 22, 2021

On 1/20/2021 at 6:38 AM, MindDrift said:

Was on 20mg for 13 years, halved the dose about three weeks ago. Had some minor adjustment type withdrawals, which faded after a day or two, but nothing really, pretty much the same as my olanzapine taper. Held for 10 days then halved the dose again about ten days ago. I plan to hold for a few weeks now before reducing again. Got some brain zaps, mildly aching legs, feeling waves of being tired, worn out & generally a bit under the weather but last couple of days it's got better. Prob going to hold now for a couple of weeks before coming down again. I'm down to 5mg daily now. I'm disolving 20mg tablet in water & administering the 5mg dose in an oral syringe. God, the stuff tastes awful! i know that it's suggested to drop 10% with each reduction but I'm going to try to do this taper/ detox the same way I did with Olanzapine, & even though it was quick, I was able to get through it. I'm going to try to reduce to 2.5mg, hold for a couple of weeks then jump off. Done lots of detoxes over the years, mostly heroin & other synthetic opiates so realise that there's always going to be symptoms when clear of the drug, no matter how gradual the taper. My Olanzapine experience was that it took about 6 months for my CNS to mostly to reset so, with this Citalopram detox, I'm hoping it'll be around the same time. I'd like to be almost fully readjusted to functioning without the drug by the summer. None of this is set in stone obvs, and if I need to reinstate at any stage, or go back & do things slightly slower, then I will. x

Hey MindDrift,

Citalopram 20mg 2007 - present

Olanzapine 2.5mg 2007 - 8.5.2020. 1.25mg held for 4 weeks then stopped.

Oh, okay, so you stopped the Olanzapine in August of 2020.

And then if you would go to AccountsSettings/signature and add the date that you reduced the Citalopram, and doses that will be great. Type the month out, to avoid any confusion, with the day, and make sure that you mention the year, as well. And then hit Save too, easy to overlook that button sometimes.

We don't look at it as a "Detox" here. We advocate for a slow and steady approach to withdrawing from a medication, that your body has become dependent on. You'll find more links to this, and a basic explanation in the post that Gridley responded to you with, back at the start of your introduction.

It's like this: How Psychiatric Drugs Remodel Your Brain

And then it takes time, to re- establish factory settings, in your brain

If I were you, I'd sure slow down now, and perhaps just HOLD steady for awhile. And then resume a taper at 10%. Once nervous system dys-regulation sets in from a Rapid or Fast WD, it can take years to reverse. If you are doing okay now, I can't stress enough the value of doing a slow taper going forward. Protracted WD can hit with a vengence months out too. Meaning you might be going just fine, and boom, Waves from Hell-o hit. I'd want to avoid that if at all possible.

Look at the charts too: In why taper by 10% of my dosage?

In addition, for scientific data supporting a very gradual taper, see this paper Meyer, 2004 Serotonin transporter occupancy of five selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors at different doses: an [11C]DASB positron emission tomography study. Discussion and full text here

I cannot stress enough to don't risk it, don't be a fool MindDrift. Protracted WD can be a bear, as can prolonged WD, with all it's symptoms.

Tips for tapering off Celexa(citalopram)

And yes, most of these drugs are nasty tasting. There is a pharmacy liquid. Or you could draw up your dosage in an oral syringe, and then further dilute it in an ounce of something to mask the icky taste too. Cranberry juice might be good, or follow it with something to cleanse your palate. Bon appetite' you could just squirt your dose in the back of your mouth and swallow swiftly. Then on to something tasty.

And.......as far as reinstatement goes, if things go badly:

About reinstating and stabilizing to reduce withdrawal symptoms

Don't suddenly go off a psychiatric drug assuming that reinstatement is a safety net

This is one of the reasons we advocate gradual tapering to minimize withdrawal symptoms. Once the nervous system is destabilized by withdrawal, all bets are off. Humpty Dumpty the egg has fallen off the wall.

I hope I sound like a broken record and have broke through your wish to go quickly off your last drug. I care MindDrift, and don't want to see you in terrible shape for no reason.

All those other WD's might have even set you up to make this one the one to really take care with, and go slowly.

It's not a badge of honor to have gone too quickly. Nor should you feel bad about having to stay longer on the lower doses of your last drug.

Anyway.......come on, come on.........don't get hasty.

And best, L, P, H, and G,

mmt

Edited January 22, 2021 by manymoretodays

January 22, 2021

Thanks!

Will take this all on board!

What does this mean please? nervous system dys-regulation.

x

March 2, 2021

On 1/22/2021 at 9:20 PM, MindDrift said:

What does this mean please? nervous system dys-regulation.

Basically it means that the nervous system is not working the way it is supposed to work.

From https://www.merriam-webster.com/medical/dysregulation

Medical Definition of dysregulation

: impairment of a physiological regulatory mechanism (as that governing metabolism, immune response, or organ function)

Examples of types of dysregulation: emotional, immune, behavioural, cognitive, autonomic

SA discussions on dysregulation:

dysautonomia-autonomic-dysregulation-pots-syncope-etc

and here:

body-temperature-dysregulation-fever-chills-shivering-too-hot-too-cold-flashes-flushes

May 13, 2021

Titled: Citalopram Withdrawal

Hi everyone.

I'm seven weeks off of Citalopram and wanted to document my experiences here.

I came down from 20mg daily, to 1.25 , then jumped off 12 weeks after I started the taper. I know that this is way quicker than what is suggested here, but it's the way I did it with Olanzapine last year & all things considered, it went ok.

The withdrawal, and time frame of symptoms seems to be very similar to what I experienced when I came off of Olanzapine last year.

There's still some mild physical discomfort, but only for a small part of each day, usually when the stress of the day has built up somewhat. I get periods where my legs ache & I feel generally a bit run down & under the weather. Mostly what I'm going through now are mental & emotional symptoms. I'm not that serene some of the time, and am sometimes impatient, easily annoyed & intolerant. My mind is much more active, but my thinking is kind of scattered & concentration levels aren't what they used to be. I'm sort of struggling to let things go & I'm getting more intensely affected by unpleasant things that have happened to me in the past than I used to.

All of the above is pretty much a carbon copy of the way it all unfolded last year when I came off of Olanzapine, and if it follows suit then I'll be ok with that. Last time it was about 4-6 months of these sort of symptoms, decreasing over time, before I started to feel kind of normal again (normal for me anyway,whatever that is) Right now, I seem to be in the "emotional haywire" phase, where all the stuff I struggle with: social anxiety, OCD, negative thinking & other mental health issues, are much more intense than they usually are. When this happened last year, I thought that it was gonna be this way forever, but the intensity slowly withered away & the issues shrunk back down to what they were before. As so far, everything has pretty much been the same as it was with Olanzapine last year, then I feel pretty confident that it's going to be a similar experience this time around. I feel better than I did last week, and last week I felt better than I did the week before, so I think I’m headed in the right direction.

My plan, for the next couple of months at least, is to just make managing the symptoms my priority, take things one day at a time, and just get through this. I’m using the same tools as I did last year: daily contact with the people in my support network, daily exercise, healthy diet, drinking lots of water, and trying to take the path of least resistance. by avoiding stressful situations. The spirituality I’ve been practicing since 2007 is helping immensely, particularly mindfulness meditation. I’m also still taking the magnesium, omega 3 & vitamin E which I think help too. It’s not been that easy but I do feel positive that I’ll come to know a brighter day, which was definitely the case for me when I came off of Olanzapine last year.

My disclaimer, after writing all this, is that I’m not a medication withdrawal expert, nor am I any sort of healthcare professional. I’m also not suggesting that anyone else do what I’m doing, or not do what I’m doing, or do it the way that I did it. This is just my experience of what it’s been like for me personally.

Thanks for your continued inspiration & guidance.

Keep well forum friends.

x

Edited June 19, 2021 by manymoretodays
title added, moved from S and SC

June 13, 2021

Minddrift how are you doing?

June 16, 2021

Hi NNhope.

Thanks for your message.

I'm twelve weeks off Citalopram and, up until a week ago, the WD process was going the same way as the Olanzapine WD that I did last year.

I had my first Covid 19 jab last Monday & have had another massive wave of physical, and really difficult emotional, withdrawal that started a few days ago.

Has anyone on here got any experience of the AstraZenica vaccine triggering waves of withdrawal symptoms? If so, is there any guidance on how long it's going to last?

Thanks! x

On 6/14/2021 at 12:39 AM, NNhope said:

Minddrift how are you doing?

June 16, 2021

I got the moderna one and it did cause some symptoms but it settled after 3 days or so.

June 16, 2021

Hi @MindDrift,

I'm sorry you're not feeling well. Did this start with the Astrazeneca vaccine? What types of symptoms are you getting? Please describe both the physical and mental symptoms as best you can, when it started to worsen and the progression of the symptoms. Unfortunately some people can feel quite unwell after COVID vaccines, it's not too uncommon. This may be the cause of your current wave, but important to get it checked out, both mentally and physically if you are feeling very unwell.

24 minutes ago, MindDrift said:

Hi DataGuy

I feel so terrible tonight, worse than I've felt through either of my withdrawals. Feel physically very bad & really mentally & emotionally unwell.

It's been 12 weeks that I've been off Citalopram now.

I don't know what to do? Reinstate? Get GP to prescribe me something else? Ride it out? Natural remedies like St John's Wort etc?

Was going to call the mental health crisis team earlier.

What are my options?

Thanks in advance.

June 16, 2021

@MindDrift

I'm going to answer the questions you raised in your PM to me.

You said in your PM that you're 12 weeks off Citalopram and wondered what your options are, whether to reinstate Citalopram, ask your doctor to prescribe another medication or ride it out.

As DataGuy noted, your increased symptoms may be due to the AstraZeneca. That's an important consideration.

If our symptoms are due to the AstraZeneca, it wouldn't help to reinstate Citalopram and would be a shame to add that drug back, especially since you're been doing well previously with going off the drug.

We don't recommend new drugs to deal with withdrawal from a previous drug nor is St. John's Wort what we'd recommend. There's no way to predict how these will affect you, especially in your sensitized state. You have, from my point of view, two options:

1. Ride it out. the symptoms will fade but there's no way to know how long it will take.

2. Reinstate Citalopralm Reinstatement of a very small dose of your previous drug, in your case Citalopram, is the only known way to help alleviate withdrawal symptoms. Sometime it works and sometimes it doesn't. Reinstatement most reliably works within 3 months of your last dose, and you're right at the cut-off point. If you choose to reinstate, I'd recommend 0.5mg (1/2mg) Citalopram, no more. As I said, your system is very sensitized from the Citalopram taper and also the CT's of Olanzapine and Trazodone, and restatement of too large a dose of Citalopram and overwhelm your system and destabilize you further.

Prescription liquid Citalopram (Celexa) is he easiest way to reinstate 0.5mg, but you will need a prescription from a doctor. Any doctor can prescribe this. Other methods (making your own liquid and weighing with a digital scale) are described in the following link:

Tips for tapering off citalopram (Celexa)

It takes 4 days for a reinstatement to reach full strength in your blood stream and a few more days to register in your brain. So be patient and give the reinstatement a chance to work. If you feel worse after the reinstatement, stop the reinstatement immediately. If, after you've given the 0.5mg a chance to work, you need to increase (again, very slightly) it will be an easy matter to do so. If you feel better from the reinstatement, hold steady. It will take several months for you to feel the full benefits of the reinstatement. At that point, once you're stabilized, you can begin a slow 10% taper off the reinstated dose down to zero.

Edited June 16, 2021 by Gridley

June 17, 2021

@DataGuy @Gridley

Hi Dataguy/ Gridley.

Thanks for your prompt responses

Things seemed to be panning out in a similar fashion to the way the Olanzapine withdrawal went last year, but with Citalopram, it's been a lot more intense, not really for the first six weeks or so, but getting that way now.

I was having the usual waves & windows patterns, and as happened last year, the waves started to get less & the windows more frequent. I expected it to carry on this way, but there have been some unexpectedly troublesome waves & in the last week, I've had a few days when it's been almost unbearable.

The feelings, well, physically: waves of feeling pretty unwell, washed out, headaches, run down & I get these aching pains in my legs, which can carry on for a few hours usually. Plus, a wave of physical withdrawal, will always trigger the mental & emotional stuff, which are feelings of anger, resentment, inferiority, fragility, wanting to push people away, everything feeling dark & dystopian, and just feeling generally mentally unstable.

I had the AstraZeneca vaccine about ten days ago, but the unexpected waves started just before that. I did have some physical side effects from the vaccine so maybe that's intensified the WD symptoms.

I've got lots of support around me, particularly from my friends in Alcoholics Anonymous, where I'm very involved, but I've reached out to see if I can get some counselling for a couple of months. Some CBT maybe, nothing too heavy, just someone to share about this with. I'm trying to find a therapist that's got an understanding of medication withdrawals, but not sure how easy that's going to be.

One of my fears about what I'm going through now is that it's all of my core mental health issues coming back. The other fear is that it's going to get worse and I'm not going to be able to deal with it, and end up back in hospital. I was in a similar place for a while when I came off Olanzapine, but it passed & the issues shrunk back to where they were before, the waves receded & windows became constant. I'm hoping this is going to be the same, but the way I feel now I'm a bit unsure.

I think that reinstatement is an option, and if things continue to get worse then I might consider it, but like you said Gridley, it would be a shame to add the drug back into my system, plus at 12 weeks off, it might not be effective anyway. I also think that in my experience of coming off other drugs, particularly heroin & synthetic opiates, when I took them in the middle of a detox withdrawal, then I went back to the beginning & had to go through it all again. I mean, never say never, but I think if I go back on Citalopram now, then I might never get off it.

What do you think?

x

June 17, 2021

5 hours ago, MindDrift said:

but I think if I go back on Citalopram now, then I might never get off it.

What do you think?

Of course, it is totally your decision as to whether to reinstate. I will say that a wave at the three-month mark is not uncommon. As the following link about what happens post-zero, there will be waves after zero, they can take a while to resolve, but they do resolve.

It Doesn’t end at “0”

June 17, 2021

@MindDrift-- would you please add details about your recent taper to you signature.

Prior experiences of tapering different drugs rarely have anything in common with the current drug being tapered. Also ADWD is an entirely different experience that WD from street drugs.

From what I have taken from your other posts the taper you did earlier this year would be place between a fast taper and a CT. This is going to produce an experience the same as a CT. In those situations there is frequently a "honeymoon period" of almost exactly three months before the Withdrawal Syndrome hits. The COVID jab just happened to correspond with that time frame. It may have acted as a catalyst but the main problem is Withdrawal Syndrome from a too fast taper.

There are generally two options, ride it out or reinstate. Riding it out will be very miserable for a very long time. Unfortunately you are at the outside of the time frame for the best results for a reinstatement, but I think that is going to be your best bet to maybe regain some comfort while you stabilize. Once good and stabile, which will take some time, you can start a nice slow taper.

I wouldn't go too big on a reinstatement either. Probably 1mg will be sufficient to take the edge off. Much more and you run the risk of kindling and setting off even worse symptoms. Read through all the information Gridley linked you too, that will help.

June 22, 2021

@Gridley @DataGuy @ChessieCat @brassmonkey @manymoretodays

This is getting really bad now, unbearable actually. I think I need to try to reinstate. How do I do this please?

June 22, 2021

1 hour ago, MindDrift said:

This is getting really bad now, unbearable actually. I think I need to try to reinstate. How do I do this please?

These instructions about reinstatement are from my post to you from last Wednesday. I'm sorry you're feeling so bad.

To repeat my caution from that post: don't reinstate too much. If you do, it can make things worse. You'll see that I recommended reinstating 0.5mg (1/2mg). Here's the excerpt from my post of last Wednesday. I know your focus is likely not great at the moment, but please read it carefully.

---

Reinstatement of a very small dose of your previous drug, in your case Citalopram, is the only known way to help alleviate withdrawal symptoms. Sometime it works and sometimes it doesn't. Reinstatement most reliably works within 3 months of your last dose, and you're right at the cut-off point. If you choose to reinstate, I'd recommend 0.5mg (1/2mg) Citalopram, no more. As I said, your system is very sensitized from the Citalopram taper and also the CT's of Olanzapine and Trazodone, and restatement of too large a dose of Citalopram and overwhelm your system and destabilize you further.

Prescription liquid Citalopram (Celexa) is he easiest way to reinstate 0.5mg, but you will need a prescription from a doctor. Any doctor can prescribe this. Other methods (making your own liquid and weighing with a digital scale) are described in the following link:

Tips for tapering off citalopram (Celexa)

It takes 4 days for a reinstatement to reach full strength in your blood stream and a few more days to register in your brain. So be patient and give the reinstatement a chance to work. If you feel worse after the reinstatement, stop the reinstatement immediately. If, after you've given the 0.5mg a chance to work, you need to increase (again, very slightly) it will be an easy matter to do so. If you feel better from the reinstatement, hold steady. It will take several months for you to feel the full benefits of the reinstatement. At that point, once you're stabilized, you can begin a slow 10% taper off the reinstated dose down to zero.

Edited June 22, 2021 by Gridley

June 22, 2021

@Gridley

Thanks Gridley.

What happens if the reinstatement doesn't work? What are my options?

June 22, 2021

20 minutes ago, MindDrift said:

What happens if the reinstatement doesn't work? What are my options?

Reinstatement is the only method we're aware of to alleviate withdrawal symptoms. Give it a chance to work. There's always the option later of increasing very slightly the reinstatement--but only very slightly and only after you've given the first reinstatement dose a chance to work.

If reinstatement doesn't work--and you're nowhere near the point of knowing that--it will be a matter of holding steady until you feel better. This will come in time. We don't recommend taking a different drug or drugs to deal with withdrawal, since there's no way to predict how you'll react to that drug. If you choose to start another drug, that would be between you and your doctor.

We do recommend non-drug methods to cope with withdrawal (and life itself). Take a look at the links in the following link and see which techniques you think might work for you.

Non-drug techniques to cope

I've found this restorative yoga pose helpful in dealing with withdrawal anxiety.

10 minute Restorative Yoga for Relaxation | Up the wall

June 22, 2021

@GridleyThanks Gridley.

It feels that if I reinstate now, I've just wasted the last six months of taper & withdrawal, only to have to relive the whole nightmare again at another time.

Not sure if I can face another six months like I've jut had. Ever.

June 22, 2021

25 minutes ago, MindDrift said:

It feels that if I reinstate now, I've just wasted the last six months of taper & withdrawal, only to have to relive the whole nightmare again at another time.

If the withdrawal symptoms are unbearable, reinstatement is the only known way to alleviate them. As I said, there's no way to know if it'll work or not.

Whatever you decide to do, you haven't wasted your time. You're doing the best you can.

June 22, 2021

@Gridley I’ve still got Citalopram left but they’re 20mg pills. I was dissolving them before. Just to check my calculations. I dissolve a 20mg pill in 20ml water, then half fill a 1ml oral syringe to get the 0.5ml dose?

is that right?

June 22, 2021

Hi @MindDrift

Sorry to see that you are struggling.

1 hour ago, MindDrift said:

Not sure if I can face another six months like I've jut had. Ever.

Nobody wants to feel this horrible withdrawals. I too had to reinstate due to fast taper. It got me stable and functional again. If you decide, follow Gridley advice at small dose. From there on after you stabilise, you can do a slow taper.
If you look at the testimonies from people that have done a slow taper, they are mostly stable and functional.

1 hour ago, MindDrift said:

Not sure if I can face another six months like I've jut had. Ever.

Agree with you on this one. I believe though it will be prevented with a slow taper.

Hang in there, crossing my fingers for you🙏

Your calculations are right by the way, 1ml syringe is 1 mg, drawing half would be 0.5 mg

Edited June 22, 2021 by Hanna72

June 22, 2021

57 minutes ago, MindDrift said:

@Gridley I’ve still got Citalopram left but they’re 20mg pills. I was dissolving them before. Just to check my calculations. I dissolve a 20mg pill in 20ml water, then half fill a 1ml oral syringe to get the 0.5ml dose?

is that right?

I'm not expert on liquids. See Hanna72's post above confirming your calculation.

Edited June 22, 2021 by Gridley

June 23, 2021

@gridley

@Hanna72

Thanks!

I reinstated at 0.5mg this afternoon, hopefully it's gonna help.

Could I ask you a few questions about your reinstatement please Hanna?

What drug was it you came off of?

How fast was your taper?

How long were you off before reinstatement?

How soon after reinstatement did you start to feel better?

Thanks in advance! x

June 23, 2021

Hi @MindDrift

Sure I will try to answer the best I can. Note that my dates after reinstatement are blurry, but I can give you an estimate on it.

11 minutes ago, MindDrift said:

What drug was it you came off of?

I had been on paxil for 20 years, in 2019 I tapered from 20 mg to 10mg, so about 1 year taper. From there on I bridged with fluoxetine, that was in beginning of 2020. My bridge was done by my doctors guidance. Got stable on 20 mg fluoxetine and tapered that in 3 months or so. Way to fast and payed for it about 9 months later with severe crash.

Thats when I reinstated 1mg of fluoxetine, in January of 2021 and went to quickly up cause I was really scared. Landed on 9 mg. Got stabile and began again my taper in may of this year. Doing it really slowly this time, learned my lesson.

I would say it took about a month to feel stable.

I would like to add though that more is not better. I was adding on more and more, cause I was not patient and I made my decision based on fear. What I would recommend is waiting before considering adding more milligrams.

I would read carefully throughout this link.

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/7562-about-reinstating-and-stabilizing-to-reduce-withdrawal-symptoms/

Hope this helps and please let us know how you are doing.

June 24, 2021

@Gridley

@Hanna72

So, I reinstated yesterday afternoon at 0.5mg and could feel a slight change even after a few hours. It's ever so slightly taken the edge off of the fierce emotional rawness & almost overwhelming anger I was feeling.

Had disturbed sleep last night, woke up with my skin feeling really itchy. I've also got some mild tingling sensations in my feet from time to time.

I've still got some of the WD symptoms but they're nowhere near as intense as before. I'm starting to feel mildly spaced out & a bit odd in general, which kind of reminds me of what it was like when I was first put on ADs in the 90s. This is not what I had in mind, and really didn't want to reinstate, but I'm kind of grateful for some respite from the absolute horrors of the last few weeks.

Are my current symptoms anything for concern? Also, based on how I'm feeling, is my 0.5mg reinstatement dose ok? Not too much or too little?

Thanks! x

June 24, 2021

Hi @MindDrift

Sounds like you are already experiencing a relief which is a very good sign. When I reinstated I could also feel tingling in my feet.

25 minutes ago, MindDrift said:

I've still got some of the WD symptoms but they're nowhere near as intense as before

Our aim is to be as functional and stable in this journey as possible. Your well-being should be a priority. That’s why this site recommends a slow taper. We can not eliminate all symptoms, but we can have them bearable.

28 minutes ago, MindDrift said:

This is not what I had in mind, and really didn't want to reinstate

I get it, I was the same way. Think of it like this, a small obstacle is a teacher for greater things to come.

30 minutes ago, MindDrift said:

Are my current symptoms anything for concern

I don’t believe they are. @Gridleywhat do you think?

31 minutes ago, MindDrift said:

Also, based on how I'm feeling, is my 0.5mg reinstatement dose ok? Not too much or too little?

Just right.

Take good care of yourself, it’s really important.

June 24, 2021

58 minutes ago, MindDrift said:

Are my current symptoms anything for concern? Also, based on how I'm feeling, is my 0.5mg reinstatement dose ok? Not too much or too little?

@MindDrift

@Hanna72

I'd stick with the current reinstatement. No cause for concern.

June 26, 2021

@Gridley

@Hanna72

This is my fourth day of reinstatement and the fierceness has gone from the physical & emotional withdrawals, so I think it seems to be working, which I'm grateful for.

I still feel quite mentally unwell, in the poorest mental health I've experienced since I got sober in 2007. My levels of anger & resentment, that really came up when I was in the Citalopram WD, are still there, and I can help but think that I've done myself some real emotional damage, particularly in those last three weeks of absolutely unbearable symptoms.

I'm hoping that it's going to settle down as it's still pretty torturous inside my mind right now.

My GP is kind of useless when it comes to medication/ withdrawal etc so he's not someone I can really talk to about any of this. I've got support from my friends in Alcoholics Anonymous, but nobody I know has been through anything like this. I was thinking of maybe getting some counselling to help me get through this period, but not sure that unearthing the past, at this stage of my recovery is the best way to go? Maybe I should just do nothing & wait for it all to pass.

What do you reckon?

x

MindDrift: olanzapine / Zyprexa withdrawal, then Citalopram withdrawal

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