MindDrift: olanzapine / Zyprexa withdrawal, then Citalopram withdrawal

[MindDrift]

@Altostrata

 

Thanks!

 

I'm going to make a fresh batch every four days from now on.

 

Based on what I've told you, if the weekly prepared solution is still stable & not degrading, is there a chance that I need to alter the amount I'm taking every day?

 

 

[ChessieCat]

Changing your dose would be a silly thing to do simply because you have no idea if you need to or if you did need to by how much you would need to alter the dose.  You might end up by not taking enough and make things even worse.

 

I think the best thing to do is to make a fresh batch, take the same dose and discard after 4 or 5 days.

 

If it happens that the old liquid was deteriorating I think all it means is that with the new liquid you would be doing a very tiny updose.  Not enough to worry about in my opinion.

[MindDrift]

@ChessieCat

 

Thanks Chessie!

 

My instinct is to stay where I am but thought I'd reach out to get some guidance on it.

 

This current wave seems to be different from the previous ones. Right now, it's not being able to eat or sleep, having constant headaches & feeling really bad anxiety. I'm not sue if this is a good or a bad sign. Am I going forward or backwards? I've had all these symptoms previous but not all at the same time of as intensely.

 

I had the loss of appetite phase, about 6 weeks into my three month withdrawal when I was doing my Olanzapine taper, so I'm thinking that I'm moving in the right direction, but I just don't know?

 

What do you think?

 

[ChessieCat]

Please keep tagging of staff only for very important reasons.  And please do not tag me for any reason, thank you.

 

See:

 

announcements

 

7 minutes ago, MindDrift said:

What do you think?

 

I have no idea.  Sorry.

[MindDrift]

 

@ChessieCat

 

Thanks for this.

 

The only reason I tagged you is because you replied to my post.

 

Thanks for the link, I just read it, point taken. 

[ChessieCat]

1 hour ago, ChessieCat said:

And please do not tag me for any reason, thank you.

 

[Hanna72]

Hey @MindDrift

Been checking up on you. 
Sorry to see you have been struggling. 
Wanted to drop by with some encouraging words.

 

Never forget how far you have come, if you look at what you have  already accomplished, you should be very proud of yourself.

Having stopped already olanzapine is a huge success. 
I would follow your gut instinct and stay at this dose for a while, don’t doubt yourself, you are the only one in the driver seat and deep down you know best. Listen to your body, and be gentle and kind to it. 
This unfortunately is not a linear journey and we need to have faith, most importantly in ourselves. 
I would suggest using coping skills, we need to inform and learn how to navigate through emotions now. Emotions have been suppressed for so long, it’s normal to feel overwhelmed when we are flushed with them 

You can do this minddrift, don’t listen to those negative thoughts. Breathe through it and tell yourself, I GOT THIS!!!

I am rooting for you💪

[Altostrata]

We need to see how you do with fresher suspensions before moving to any other guesses.

 

9 hours ago, MindDrift said:

This current wave seems to be different from the previous ones. Right now, it's not being able to eat or sleep, having constant headaches & feeling really bad anxiety. I'm not sue if this is a good or a bad sign. Am I going forward or backwards? I've had all these symptoms previous but not all at the same time of as intensely.

 

You've been on 2.5mg citalopram for only 2 weeks?

 

When did this wave start? Are these symptoms worse at any particular times of day? What times o'clock do you take your drugs, with their dosages?

[MindDrift]

@Altostrata

 

Been on 2.5mg for almost seven weeks.

 

I take 2.5mg Citalopram at around 8am every morning without fail.

 

This last wave started 5-7 days ago and feels like it's just starting to subside a bit now.

 

The symptoms are not noticeably worse at any time of the day.

 

Thanks! 

[MindDrift]

On 10/8/2021 at 2:54 PM, Hanna72 said:

Hey @MindDrift

Been checking up on you. 
Sorry to see you have been struggling. 
Wanted to drop by with some encouraging words.

 

Never forget how far you have come, if you look at what you have  already accomplished, you should be very proud of yourself.

Having stopped already olanzapine is a huge success. 
I would follow your gut instinct and stay at this dose for a while, don’t doubt yourself, you are the only one in the driver seat and deep down you know best. Listen to your body, and be gentle and kind to it. 
This unfortunately is not a linear journey and we need to have faith, most importantly in ourselves. 
I would suggest using coping skills, we need to inform and learn how to navigate through emotions now. Emotions have been suppressed for so long, it’s normal to feel overwhelmed when we are flushed with them 

You can do this minddrift, don’t listen to those negative thoughts. Breathe through it and tell yourself, I GOT THIS!!!

I am rooting for you💪

@Hanna72

 

Hi Hanna.

 

Thanks for your lovely message, much appreciated!

 

I'm going to stay at 2.5mg daily & start to make a new batch of meds every three days & see if that helps to level things out.

 

It's been challenging for sure, though the last two days I've had a real window where all symptoms are very minimal. Yesterday was so wonderful, and I was almost without symptoms, today is similar. I'm just trying to accept these times as the gifts that they are.

 

As I mentioned in an earlier post, it seems like things have shifted somewhat, which I'm hoping is a sign of progress. Though, I've had periods like this before, where I think the nightmare is over, only to be thrown back into more times of severe withdrawal.

 

I think the thing that was really difficult in the last wave was the combination of constant headaches, really bad anxiety, and other physical symptoms that completely removed my appetite. That compounded by only getting a couple of hours of sleep a night, made me feel really weak, both mentally & physically. 

 

The progress seems to be so painfully slow, but hopefully I am moving in the right direction.

 

Bless you Hanna! x

 

 

 

 

 

[hayduke]

Hi @MindDrift, how are you getting on?  Feeling any better on your hold?

[MindDrift]

Hi @hayduke

 

Thanks for your message!

 

I'm much improved thanks. Been on 2.5mg for about thirteen weeks, and am just going to stay there & wait for my CNS to readjust.

 

Things are improving after what felt like a major shift that happened about six weeks ago.

 

I'm still getting symptoms, mostly pains in the legs, periods of feeling a bit washed out/ unwell & having headaches a lot of the time, but they're nowhere near the intensity they were before. I'm also having periods, sometimes days on end, where the symptoms are very minimal & sometimes totally absent, which has been really wonderful. It's certainly made me so appreciative of those times, and given me great hope for the future.

 

Thanks for checking on me, it's much appreciated my friend!

 

x

 

 

 

 

[hayduke]

That's so good to hear @MindDrift

 

Enjoy the hold and the break from wd 🙂

Edited November 23, 2021 by hayduke

[MindDrift]

@Altostrata

 

Hey Alto!

 

As per my posts above, I'm doing much better, but last day or two been experiencing something unusual.

 

My dosage has been the same for the last 15 weeks, and I am meticulously preparing & administering it in exactly the same way each day. I'm on 2.5mg Citalopram daily, and I prepare it by dissolving a 20mg tablet into 20ml water, then administer the dose in an oral syringe. I make a new batch every three days.

 

The last day or two I have been feeling a bit like I was every time I made a 0.5mg increase in my first couple of months of reinstatement. So getting a more intense wave of symptoms, and also feeling a very slight, and occasional feeling of mild sedation.

 

I've not had any of these kinds of days for about two months, and I'm not sure what's happening, as dosage/ preparation etc is all exactly the same.

 

Is it possible that one of the pills has greater strength than the others, and that's why I'm feeling like I did when I was increasing the dose after reinstatement?

 

Might there be any other possible reasons why I'm feeling this way, or is it just a part of the waves & windows pattern?

 

Thanks! x

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[getofflex]

@MindDriftIt is possible something in your diet or environment could be causing this?  I have been keeping a journal every day of things that affect my withdrawal.  I keep notes about what and when I eat, my sleep patterns, my activity, the weather, things that stress me out, etc.  It has helped a lot.  You may consider doing this to see if you can find a pattern.  I have found that MSG (monosodium glutamate) really activates me, and I avoid that in my diet.  I'm also affected by electric storms, sudden weather changes, major stress, and intense exercise.  

 

Have you been having any alcohol or any other mind altering substances recently?  This can affect withdrawal as well. 

17 minutes ago, MindDrift said:

Is it possible that one of the pills has greater strength than the others, and that's why I'm feeling like I did when I was increasing the dose after reinstatement?

This is highly unlikely.  Manufacturing standards for prescription medications are very high.  

[MindDrift]

Hi @getofflex

 

Thanks for your response, much appreciated!

 

I really can't think of anything that's changed. I'm kind of a creature of habit & pretty much do the same stuff/ eat the same foods etc every week. Plus, there's been no real extra stress happening that I can recall.

 

I've been continuously clean & sober in Alcoholics Anonymous since 2007, so I don't drink or do drugs at all.

 

Any other ideas?

 

x

[ChessieCat]

2 hours ago, MindDrift said:

Might there be any other possible reasons why I'm feeling this way, or is it just a part of the waves & windows pattern?

 

The Covid situation started early last year and things are becoming more normal but not going back to what they were pre-Covid.  Our world has been changed by what has happened and there is a lot of uncertainty that we didn't have before.

 

Even though we think we have been coping okay, I suspect that there are people for whom the stress builds up very gradually over time and that it can then rear its ugly head and they can't work out what has caused it.

 

I was watching a video yesterday and they had statistics of the increase in the number of people experiencing depression in American.  I think pre-Covid was 17% and post-Covid was 40%.  I cannot remember when the stats were taken.

[Altostrata]

@MindDrift you may wish to keep daily notes of your symptom pattern. Something that occurs for a couple of days is not very meaningful, it could be a blip, we need to see a longer pattern.

[MindDrift]

11 hours ago, ChessieCat said:

 

The Covid situation started early last year and things are becoming more normal but not going back to what they were pre-Covid.  Our world has been changed by what has happened and there is a lot of uncertainty that we didn't have before.

 

Even though we think we have been coping okay, I suspect that there are people for whom the stress builds up very gradually over time and that it can then rear its ugly head and they can't work out what has caused it.

 

I was watching a video yesterday and they had statistics of the increase in the number of people experiencing depression in American.  I think pre-Covid was 17% and post-Covid was 40%.  I cannot remember when the stats were taken.

Thanks Chessie! 

 

That is an excellent point, which I'll take on board. Thanks for your feedback. x

[MindDrift]

8 hours ago, Altostrata said:

@MindDrift you may wish to keep daily notes of your symptom pattern. Something that occurs for a couple of days is not very meaningful, it could be a blip, we need to see a longer pattern.

Yeah, good point Alto! 

 

Hopefully it's just a part of the process, and just a blip as you suggested.

 

x

[getofflex]

On 12/2/2021 at 1:12 PM, MindDrift said:

I've been continuously clean & sober in Alcoholics Anonymous since 2007, so I don't drink or do drugs at all.

That's wonderful!   Congratulations.  As Altostrata and I suggested previously, my only suggestion is to keep a daily journal as I've described, and see what patterns emerge.  Chessiecat made a good point about stress with the COVID situation. Otherwise, it could just be a wave.  

Edited December 3, 2021 by getofflex

[MindDrift]

@Altostrata

 

Hi everyone.

 

Had Pfizer Covid booster seven days ago and am now in a bad wave of withdrawal.

 

I don't think it's solely because of the vaccine, as I felt a sight wave coming on a few days before, but as with the first two vaccines, it's definitely intensified any WD symptoms I'm experiencing now.

 

I'm still taking supplements but not sure if they're having much effect. I'm willing to do whatever I need to do, but they're not cheap, so wanted to see if anyone had any experience to share on the effectiveness of them vs not taking them at all?

 

They are:

 

Omega 3 - 2000mg - 2 capsules daily

Magnesium - 100mg - 2 tablets daily

Vitamin E - 400 IU - 1 tablet daily

 

Thanks!

 

x

[Altostrata]

Hang in, the bad effects should go away in a few days.

[hayduke]

On 12/25/2021 at 6:18 AM, MindDrift said:

Had Pfizer Covid booster seven days ago and am now in a bad wave of withdrawal.

 

10 days or more it took after my second shot for the muscle tension to abate.

[MindDrift]

@hayduke

 

Hey!

 

Thanks for your message!

 

Yeah, the wave lasted about two weeks but has subsided over the last few days.

 

x

[hayduke]

20 minutes ago, MindDrift said:

@hayduke

 

Hey!

 

Thanks for your message!

 

Yeah, the wave lasted about two weeks but has subsided over the last few days.

 

x

 

Glad to hear.  It ain't a lot of fun but I reckon it beats the snot out of a respirator and such.

[MindDrift]

@Altostrata

 

I'm back in another massive wave of withdrawal. It's been like this again for the last few days.

 

Physically I feel absolutely terrible. Emotionally I'm all over the place & feel so angry.

 

This is about as bad as it was right before I reinstated all those months ago.

 

Nothing changed with my daily dose/ everything the same and administered at the same time of day every day. 

 

I stopped taking the supplements but surely that can't have had this kind of effect can it? The last wave, which I had when I was still taking the supplements was exactly like this one, so not sure if that's the cause.

 

 

[Altostrata]

Are any of your symptoms new? What are your most prominent symptoms? We can't tell anything from something reported as a wave.

[MindDrift]

@Altostrata

 

No new symptoms, all the same recurring stuff:

 

Headaches, pains in the legs, feeling really physically under the weather, increased anxiety, anger, rage, feeling emotionally raw & open, and hardly being able to deal with anything even remotely stressful. 

 

 

[Altostrata]

How's your sleep? What do you do for exercise? Do you sleep a lot?

[MindDrift]

@AltostrataSleep is ok 7/8hrs a night. I exercise by walking for about 20 mins every day. 

[MindDrift]

@Altostrata

 

Had a bad wave of PAWS the last few weeks.

 

Went to see an Ayurvedic practicioner a couple of weeks ago, who suggested some different meditations, diet changes and prescribed some herbal remedies.

 

The wave subsided and I was feeling better for the last few days.

 

She prescribed six different herbs for me which I started taking, at half the dose she recommended, this morning, and now I'm back in a wave of withdrawal. I think it's maybe "startup effects" that have triggered a wave of what I described in an earlier post. Got pains in my kidneys too that feel a bit like it was when I quit drinking in 2007.

 

The practicioner told me she's worked with people who have gone through similar to me & assures me the herbs cannot make things worse. I do know that putting anything into my body can have an adverse effect sometimes. Even a full meal could do that to me when I first came off Citalopram.

 

Can I post links to what she's given me please? Maybe you could advise if it's a good idea for me to keep taking or not?

 

Thanks! x

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Altostrata]

If you think the herbs have caused this, either stop taking them or discuss your symptoms with the Ayurvedic practitioner. We don't know anything about Ayurvedic treatment.

[Altostrata]

@MindDrift how are you doing?

[MindDrift]

1 hour ago, Altostrata said:

@MindDrift how are you doing?

@Altostrata

 

Hey Alto.

 

Thanks for your message.

 

I’m ok though still having some challenging times with waves of withdrawal, but they don’t have the same ferocity as before thankfully.

 

I think the Ayurvedic stuff is helping: diet change, different meditations & herbs. Thankfully what I posted about above only lasted a few hours so looks like they were “startup effects”.

 

I’ve had periods like this before though, only to get plunged back into a really bad wave. As this whole thing is a totally non linear journey, it’s hard to know what’s working, or what’s around the corner, but I’m definitely moving in the right direction, even if my progress feels very slow at times.

 

x

[Altostrata]

58 minutes ago, MindDrift said:

I’m definitely moving in the right direction, even if my progress feels very slow at times.

 

This is exactly what we expect.