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DataGuy: post withdrawal odyssey


DataGuy

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  • Moderator

Hello fellow travelers,

 

I am a recovering user of many psychotropic prescriptions (which I at first thought were good for me). After finally being able to taper off and learning much more, I've revised my thinking a bit: about the drugs, about the doctors, about the medical profession in general and about what I can reasonably be certain is healthy. I've got pretty decent working knowledge of psychotropics now, but still have much to learn. I have read the Ashton Manual, a few scholarly articles by people like Guy Chouinard, and have some experience helping people with withdrawal and post-withdrawal. I also have a bit of an interest in general medicine. Drugs taken include: Remeron, Effexor, Clonazepam, Triazolam, Escitalopram, too much Olanzapine and a few other compounds with varying levels of harm. I am now around two years post-withdrawal of Clonazepam, having begun my odyssey taking amitryptaline for sleep, and am still recovering from extreme insomnia, gastro problems and general fatigue. I can't really say it was worth it, but you live and you learn. 

Remeron - 2004-2005 (bad withdrawal)

Clonazepam - 2005-2018 (jumped around March)

Olanzapine - 2014- late 2017

Domperidone - 2008-2018

Many drugs in between including Lexapro, other benzos and z-drugs.

Still suffering post-withdrawal from Clonazepam (Klonopin), Olanzapine and Domperidone. 

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  • Administrator

Welcome, DataGuy.

 

Good to see you here.

 

What's your sleep pattern?

 

To help us out, follow these instructions Please put your drug and withdrawal history in your signature You may need to use a computer to do this.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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  • Moderator

Hi Alto,

 

Sleep has been bad ever since the jump 2 years ago but has very slowly improved. I am now averaging just under 5 hours per night although I still have bad periods when stress arises. Generally I fall asleep very easily but awaken very easily and frequently. I tend to sleep sitting up initially, as this helps my stomach. Still have plenty of gastritis from the withdrawal which will sometimes wake me up. I find getting plenty of exercise during the day helps. When I wake up I will usually get up and go to the washroom and if I am very uncomfortable might go for a walk. I find walking while doing breathing exercises to be helpful. Sometime I've found simply staying up and reading or entertaining myself in some way with no intention of going back to sleep paradoxically helps me to feel drowsy. Have read a couple CBT for insomnia books which were of some mild use. 

 

Usually fall asleep around 10pm and sleep until 2-3am, waking up 2-3 times. Sometimes I can get back to sleep for an hour. My best sleep in two years is around 6 hours in a 24 hour period. So yes, I am a bit tired :)

Remeron - 2004-2005 (bad withdrawal)

Clonazepam - 2005-2018 (jumped around March)

Olanzapine - 2014- late 2017

Domperidone - 2008-2018

Many drugs in between including Lexapro, other benzos and z-drugs.

Still suffering post-withdrawal from Clonazepam (Klonopin), Olanzapine and Domperidone. 

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  • ChessieCat changed the title to DataGuy: Postwithdrawal Odyssey
  • 2 weeks later...
  • Mentor

Hello:
 

Congratulations on becoming a moderator! Your med experience will give us such knowledge.

 

 I was reading your response to Alto about your sleep.

 

 I am also really struggling with sleep. I sleep from 2-4 hours a night. Among using CBT, have you tried anything else? I’d really love some information if you could give me some pointers.

 

Thank you very much.

 

Take care,

 Frogie xx

 

P.S.  Love your avatar 😊🐸

Edited by Frogie

PREVIOUS medications and discontinuations: Have been on medications since 1996. 

 Valium, Gabapentin, Lamictal and Prilosec from 2000 to 2015 with a fast taper by a psychiatrist.

 Liquid Lexapro Nov, 2016 to 31-March, 2019 Lexapro free!!! (total Lexapro taper was 4 years-started with pill form)

---CURRENT MEDICATIONS:Supplements:Milk Thistle, Metamucil, Magnesium Citrate, Vitamin D3, Levothyroxine

 Xanax 1mg three times a day June, 2000 to 19-September, 2020 Went from .150 grams (average weight of 1 Xanax) three times a day to .003 grams three times a day.

19-September, 2020 Xanax free!!! (total Xanax taper was 15-1/2 months-1-June, 2019-19-September, 2020)

 

 

I am not a medical professional. The suggestions I make are based on personal experience.

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  • Administrator

Here are our sleep tips:

 

Tips to help sleep -- so many of us have that awful withdrawal insomnia

 

Path to Better Sleep FREE online for everyone from the US Veterans Administration

 

Music for self-care: Calms hyperalertness, anxiety, aids relaxation and sleep

 

What is the sleep cycle?

 

Melatonin for sleep: Many people find it helpful

 

TV or computer use in evening can disrupt sleep: Bright light signals the brain that it's daytime

 

 

Sleeping sitting up is not a bad solution. A wedge pillow in your bed might be enough to calm your gut.

 

You might get some more sleep using a sleep mask.

 

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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  • Moderator

Hi Frogie,

 

Thanks! Right back at you on the avatar :)

 

I look forward to learning from you too. I think this lasts so long that I have actually now forgotten some of what I learned in the initial stages haha. You are where I was about 2 years ago, except I didn't have the good fortune of finding SA and my taper was pretty chaotic.

 

Boy, good question about sleep. I am wondering if I even remember all of the things I've tried. Initially I tried a few supplements and drugs, but none of them worked out too well and I have basically sworn off everything but food and water. If you're curious, I tried: magnesium, kava kava, chamomile (made me feel nauseous), glycine, tryptophan, melatonin, atenolol (a beta-blocker), Nyquil and I am probably forgetting one or two others, but you get the idea. I don't think I'd really recommend any of them (from my experience anyway). Even the things that worked only worked briefly and then I would have some sort of adverse reaction to them. I think behavioral interventions are much less risky and would probably offer more lasting benefit. 

 

For behavioral interventions, I've tried: CBT-I, meditation, progressive muscle relaxation, walking (I still go for walks around 2am fairly regularly), simple deep breathing, distraction via listening to things like audiobooks or podcasts, reading, not thinking about trying to sleep and just doing other stuff (paradoxically, this seems to work sometimes), only going to bed when I'm drowsy (this usually happens around 9pm-11pm most nights), getting up if I am awake for more than 20 minutes (this is a very useful thing from CBT-I), avoiding screens prior to bed (I didn't really notice this working for me, so stopped it), and, finally: exercise! I have probably left out a few, but I would say exercise is my panacea. I almost always sleep better on days when I get a large amount of exercise. It didn't always work great early on in withdrawal (sometimes I'd workout pretty hard and then sleep like 1 hour ugh), but I think it really pays off later. Even if your sleep doesn't improve too much, at least you will be in much better shape :). Withdrawal seems much less scary and uncomfortable when you feel like you have a lot of physical stamina and strength. Are you able to exercise, Frogie? I know some people can't...I am lucky in that respect.

 

The interventions I found most helpful were: meditation (I should really do more of this), deep breathing, distraction, reading, not thinking about sleep....actually most of the behavioral interventions I found useful. The only one I haven't found terribly useful was the avoiding screens. I've fallen asleep many times in front of my computer watching youtube or listening to podcasts. I know the walking might sound odd in the middle of the night. It does tend to wake you up a bit initially but for me, I find I get an excess of energy that I need to burn off before I can sleep again sometimes. Some nights I will wake up after sleeping 4 hours and I find I really need to flex my legs (like actually contract the muscle isometrically). I think if I am immobile for too long my body builds up and excess of excitatory neurotransmitters or something...that is my hypothesis anyway. 

 

What types of things have you tried for insomnia, Frogie? I was where you were with sleep when I jumped off. Things were pretty bad in acute: sleeping 2-3 hours per night. But they have really improved immensely, even though most people would probably be horrified at sleeping 4-5 hours a night. Things will improve, although it may happen quite slowly. I have even slept 6 hours a couple times in the last few months :)

 

 

Edited by DataGuy

Remeron - 2004-2005 (bad withdrawal)

Clonazepam - 2005-2018 (jumped around March)

Olanzapine - 2014- late 2017

Domperidone - 2008-2018

Many drugs in between including Lexapro, other benzos and z-drugs.

Still suffering post-withdrawal from Clonazepam (Klonopin), Olanzapine and Domperidone. 

Link to post
  • Mentor
2 hours ago, Altostrata said:

Here are our sleep tips:

 

Tips to help sleep -- so many of us have that awful withdrawal insomnia

 

Path to Better Sleep FREE online for everyone from the US Veterans Administration

 

Music for self-care: Calms hyperalertness, anxiety, aids relaxation and sleep

 

What is the sleep cycle?

 

Melatonin for sleep: Many people find it helpful

 

TV or computer use in evening can disrupt sleep: Bright light signals the brain that it's daytime

 

 

Sleeping sitting up is not a bad solution. A wedge pillow in your bed might be enough to calm your gut.

 

You might get some more sleep using a sleep mask.

 

@Altostrata

 

Thank you for the information 

PREVIOUS medications and discontinuations: Have been on medications since 1996. 

 Valium, Gabapentin, Lamictal and Prilosec from 2000 to 2015 with a fast taper by a psychiatrist.

 Liquid Lexapro Nov, 2016 to 31-March, 2019 Lexapro free!!! (total Lexapro taper was 4 years-started with pill form)

---CURRENT MEDICATIONS:Supplements:Milk Thistle, Metamucil, Magnesium Citrate, Vitamin D3, Levothyroxine

 Xanax 1mg three times a day June, 2000 to 19-September, 2020 Went from .150 grams (average weight of 1 Xanax) three times a day to .003 grams three times a day.

19-September, 2020 Xanax free!!! (total Xanax taper was 15-1/2 months-1-June, 2019-19-September, 2020)

 

 

I am not a medical professional. The suggestions I make are based on personal experience.

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  • Moderator

Yes, thanks Alto.

Remeron - 2004-2005 (bad withdrawal)

Clonazepam - 2005-2018 (jumped around March)

Olanzapine - 2014- late 2017

Domperidone - 2008-2018

Many drugs in between including Lexapro, other benzos and z-drugs.

Still suffering post-withdrawal from Clonazepam (Klonopin), Olanzapine and Domperidone. 

Link to post
  • Mentor
11 hours ago, DataGuy said:

Hi Frogie,

 

Thanks! Right back at you on the avatar :)

 

I look forward to learning from you too. I think this lasts so long that I have actually now forgotten some of what I learned in the initial stages haha. You are where I was about 2 years ago, except I didn't have the good fortune of finding SA and my taper was pretty chaotic.

 

Boy, good question about sleep. I am wondering if I even remember all of the things I've tried. Initially I tried a few supplements and drugs, but none of them worked out too well and I have basically sworn off everything but food and water. If you're curious, I tried: magnesium, kava kava, chamomile (made me feel nauseous), glycine, tryptophan, melatonin, atenolol (a beta-blocker), Nyquil and I am probably forgetting one or two others, but you get the idea. I don't think I'd really recommend any of them (from my experience anyway). Even the things that worked only worked briefly and then I would have some sort of adverse reaction to them. I think behavioral interventions are much less risky and would probably offer more lasting benefit. 

 

For behavioral interventions, I've tried: CBT-I, meditation, progressive muscle relaxation, walking (I still go for walks around 2am fairly regularly), simple deep breathing, distraction via listening to things like audiobooks or podcasts, reading, not thinking about trying to sleep and just doing other stuff (paradoxically, this seems to work sometimes), only going to bed when I'm drowsy (this usually happens around 9pm-11pm most nights), getting up if I am awake for more than 20 minutes (this is a very useful thing from CBT-I), avoiding screens prior to bed (I didn't really notice this working for me, so stopped it), and, finally: exercise! I have probably left out a few, but I would say exercise is my panacea. I almost always sleep better on days when I get a large amount of exercise. It didn't always work great early on in withdrawal (sometimes I'd workout pretty hard and then sleep like 1 hour ugh), but I think it really pays off later. Even if your sleep doesn't improve too much, at least you will be in much better shape :). Withdrawal seems much less scary and uncomfortable when you feel like you have a lot of physical stamina and strength. Are you able to exercise, Frogie? I know some people can't...I am lucky in that respect.

 

The interventions I found most helpful were: meditation (I should really do more of this), deep breathing, distraction, reading, not thinking about sleep....actually most of the behavioral interventions I found useful. The only one I haven't found terribly useful was the avoiding screens. I've fallen asleep many times in front of my computer watching youtube or listening to podcasts. I know the walking might sound odd in the middle of the night. It does tend to wake you up a bit initially but for me, I find I get an excess of energy that I need to burn off before I can sleep again sometimes. Some nights I will wake up after sleeping 4 hours and I find I really need to flex my legs (like actually contract the muscle isometrically). I think if I am immobile for too long my body builds up and excess of excitatory neurotransmitters or something...that is my hypothesis anyway. 

 

What types of things have you tried for insomnia, Frogie? I was where you were with sleep when I jumped off. Things were pretty bad in acute: sleeping 2-3 hours per night. But they have really improved immensely, even though most people would probably be horrified at sleeping 4-5 hours a night. Things will improve, although it may happen quite slowly. I have even slept 6 hours a couple times in the last few months :)

 

 

I’m going to answer you on my Frogie’s Off-Topc Topic so I don’t clog your thread!😊

PREVIOUS medications and discontinuations: Have been on medications since 1996. 

 Valium, Gabapentin, Lamictal and Prilosec from 2000 to 2015 with a fast taper by a psychiatrist.

 Liquid Lexapro Nov, 2016 to 31-March, 2019 Lexapro free!!! (total Lexapro taper was 4 years-started with pill form)

---CURRENT MEDICATIONS:Supplements:Milk Thistle, Metamucil, Magnesium Citrate, Vitamin D3, Levothyroxine

 Xanax 1mg three times a day June, 2000 to 19-September, 2020 Went from .150 grams (average weight of 1 Xanax) three times a day to .003 grams three times a day.

19-September, 2020 Xanax free!!! (total Xanax taper was 15-1/2 months-1-June, 2019-19-September, 2020)

 

 

I am not a medical professional. The suggestions I make are based on personal experience.

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  • Administrator

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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Hi, i don't want to clog your threat either but you've been helping me a ton. My withdrawals been a horror story of mistakes but i think two years isn't long for sleep to improve and considering your sleeping 6 hours sometimes now as opposed to two i think you'll be sleeping soundly in no time. I hope you keep improving man.

Fluanxol dosage n/a - 6 months cold turkey Start/ may 2015 end/august 2015

Sertraline 100mg - 10 months cold turkey start/ may 2015 End/Feb 2016

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  • Moderator
On 7/1/2020 at 4:37 PM, trenace said:

Hi, i don't want to clog your threat either but you've been helping me a ton. My withdrawals been a horror story of mistakes but i think two years isn't long for sleep to improve and considering your sleeping 6 hours sometimes now as opposed to two i think you'll be sleeping soundly in no time. I hope you keep improving man.

 

Thanks Trenace. I find I am still vulnerable to stress and overwork, but I can maintain my sleep by engaging in conscientious self-care, which for me is mainly exercise (and sometimes deep breathing or guided meditation). I usually walk at least a couple hours per day and will run or workout at the gym 3 or 4 times a week. I have gained about 40lbs of since my lowest weight in withdrawal.

 

I will still have bad periods with the insomnia, but they are becoming less frequent. I also had pretty bad stomach problems and had lost a lot of weight (actually my digestive system didn't seem to work at all in acute withdrawal), but those are slowly improving. One of my worst symptoms is gastritis, which seems to be exacerbated by carbohydrates. Not really sure why, but I have a couple hypotheses that I don't think I'll ever be able to test. 

 

Other symptoms include some intermittent sensitivity to light and sound, a strange chemical anxiety that comes and goes, some difficulty concentrating or sitting still, difficulty with goal-related tasks (I have a 'to do list' that just keeps growing), sensitivity to stress, some intermittent cog fog, and a persistent allergy to doctors and hospitals :)

 

I also had a sensitivity to drugs and supplements and had quite a few bad reactions, but haven't taken any for a couple years. My goal is to never take another one in my life, since I'm taking this as a sign I reached my quota. 

Edited by DataGuy

Remeron - 2004-2005 (bad withdrawal)

Clonazepam - 2005-2018 (jumped around March)

Olanzapine - 2014- late 2017

Domperidone - 2008-2018

Many drugs in between including Lexapro, other benzos and z-drugs.

Still suffering post-withdrawal from Clonazepam (Klonopin), Olanzapine and Domperidone. 

Link to post
1 hour ago, DataGuy said:

 

Thanks Trenace. I find I am still vulnerable to stress and overwork, but I can maintain my sleep by engaging in conscientious self-care, which for me is mainly exercise (and sometimes deep breathing or guided meditation). I usually walk at least a couple hours per day and will run or workout at the gym 3 or 4 times a week. I have gained about 40lbs of since my lowest weight in withdrawal.

 

I will still have bad periods with the insomnia, but they are becoming less frequent. I also had pretty bad stomach problems and had lost a lot of weight (actually my digestive system didn't seem to work at all in acute withdrawal), but those are slowly improving. One of my worst symptoms is gastritis, which seems to be exacerbated by carbohydrates. Not really sure why, but I have a couple hypotheses that I don't think I'll ever be able to test. 

 

Other symptoms include some intermittent sensitivity to light and sound, a strange chemical anxiety that comes and goes, some difficulty concentrating or sitting still, difficulty with goal-related tasks (I have a 'to do list' that just keeps growing), sensitivity to stress, some intermittent cog fog, and a persistent allergy to doctors and hospitals :)

 

I also had a sensitivity to drugs and supplements and had quite a few bad reactions, but haven't taken any for a couple years. My goal is to never take another one in my life, since I'm taking this as a sign I reached my quota. 

It really sounds like you're on the mend despite a few remaining symptoms. I'm sure you'll get there soon and u seem to know exactly what you're doing too. Its definitley a good idea with the supplements too i really don't think your body needs them unless you have a deficiency or something. Hope you have a good day man 😊

Fluanxol dosage n/a - 6 months cold turkey Start/ may 2015 end/august 2015

Sertraline 100mg - 10 months cold turkey start/ may 2015 End/Feb 2016

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  • 3 weeks later...
  • Moderator

Thanks @trenace. I have been having a rough month, deteriorating for not much reason that I can see, but I still have quite a few solutions I can try. Thus far I have tried cutting carbohydrates, but although they are still a problem for me, they don't seem to be the primary culprit this time. Next I am going to try reinstituting intermittent fasting, which I'd been getting away from. My sleep has been really disrupted and poor, getting 3.5-4.5 hours a night with the occasional 5 hours sprinkled in. Even the 5 hours has seemed of poor quality. I keep waking up with gastritis and a very acidic stomach, which has been a massive blight on my life, preventing me from getting back to sleep and making me cautious and hesitant about eating (sometimes I will even vomit after waking). I have been pretty miserable and unproductive the last month, having difficulty concentrating on much of anything or mustering up any motivation.

 

 I am going to try eating my last meal earlier in the day (aiming for 3pm, but I will be a bit flexible). I'm hoping this allows my stomach time to settle and keeps me from having my sleep disrupted. I have always found intermittent fasting helps, but keep drifting away from it because it is difficult to maintain. It seems very hard for me to eat just the right amount of food by some cutoff time in the afternoon. I always seem to eat too much or too little. Too little and I need to eat again or I will have trouble sleeping, as my nervous system gets overactivated and I am just uneasy. I have bad memories of acute withdrawal, starving in my apartment while surrounded by food because my digestive system just did not work. I suspect it will take my body quite awhile to forget that episode. If I eat too much, this obviously messes things up too, for more prosaic reasons. I may have to start counting calories, which I have not really bothered with for a long time. 

 

Dealing with people at work has been difficult, as often I feel like I can't even pretend to have patience or good humor. I mostly just avoid them when I can. Sometimes I think I fall asleep for a few minutes during the day. I will be listening to a podcast or something and then suddenly it is over and I can't remember the end of it. It is hard to know whether I actually fell asleep or just spaced out, but I do seem to have lost that time. Usually it's only for 5-10 minutes. I'm still exercising plenty (2 hours walking minimum) and attempting to do some sort of meditation or breathing. I have started to watch baseball again, because I find it relaxing. I had cancelled my TV during the pandemic to save money, because the only thing I ever watched was sports and that had ceased to exist. Now that it is starting again I realized I was missing it. A top prospect for my team will make his debut tomorrow. He is a behemoth at 6'5, 260lbs and throws 100 mph. Should be fun to watch but I wouldn't want to be an opposing hitter. Throughout this entire thing, during withdrawal and before that, when I was stuck on clonazepam despite not wanting to take it and being made sick unknowningly, baseball has been one of the only things that has always maintained my interest. When I had to have a gastroscopy a few years ago for my seemingly endless stomach problems (I now know clonazepam was the culprit, despite my doctor explicitly claiming it wasn't), I actually dispensed with anaesthetic for the sole reason that I wanted to watch the opening day of baseball and actually remember it. Surprisingly, he was able to stick a long camera down my throat and into my stomach without much difficulty.

 

When I am doing well I am fairly carefree and unbothered by anxiety, but when I start doing poorly I am reminded of how treacherous PAWS can be and how tenuous recovery is. One domino starts knocking down all the others and before I know it I am back in hell (sleeping 3-4 hours, no motivation, stomach a complete mess, miserable mood, unproductive, look like hell) and the path back to stability seems fraught with obstacles. Very easy to give advice from a position of comfort, very difficult when you are not doing well yourself. But I think the fact that my own withdrawal has been so intractable and cruel has been helpful in some way. I wouldn't call it a good experience, but as Calvin's father would say "it builds character". 

 

Hobbes Deep - character building | Calvin and hobbes comics ...

 

 

Remeron - 2004-2005 (bad withdrawal)

Clonazepam - 2005-2018 (jumped around March)

Olanzapine - 2014- late 2017

Domperidone - 2008-2018

Many drugs in between including Lexapro, other benzos and z-drugs.

Still suffering post-withdrawal from Clonazepam (Klonopin), Olanzapine and Domperidone. 

Link to post
  • 1 month later...
On 7/28/2020 at 1:19 PM, DataGuy said:

Thanks @trenace. I have been having a rough month, deteriorating for not much reason that I can see, but I still have quite a few solutions I can try. Thus far I have tried cutting carbohydrates, but although they are still a problem for me, they don't seem to be the primary culprit this time. Next I am going to try reinstituting intermittent fasting, which I'd been getting away from. My sleep has been really disrupted and poor, getting 3.5-4.5 hours a night with the occasional 5 hours sprinkled in. Even the 5 hours has seemed of poor quality. I keep waking up with gastritis and a very acidic stomach, which has been a massive blight on my life, preventing me from getting back to sleep and making me cautious and hesitant about eating (sometimes I will even vomit after waking). I have been pretty miserable and unproductive the last month, having difficulty concentrating on much of anything or mustering up any motivation.

 

 I am going to try eating my last meal earlier in the day (aiming for 3pm, but I will be a bit flexible). I'm hoping this allows my stomach time to settle and keeps me from having my sleep disrupted. I have always found intermittent fasting helps, but keep drifting away from it because it is difficult to maintain. It seems very hard for me to eat just the right amount of food by some cutoff time in the afternoon. I always seem to eat too much or too little. Too little and I need to eat again or I will have trouble sleeping, as my nervous system gets overactivated and I am just uneasy. I have bad memories of acute withdrawal, starving in my apartment while surrounded by food because my digestive system just did not work. I suspect it will take my body quite awhile to forget that episode. If I eat too much, this obviously messes things up too, for more prosaic reasons. I may have to start counting calories, which I have not really bothered with for a long time. 

 

Dealing with people at work has been difficult, as often I feel like I can't even pretend to have patience or good humor. I mostly just avoid them when I can. Sometimes I think I fall asleep for a few minutes during the day. I will be listening to a podcast or something and then suddenly it is over and I can't remember the end of it. It is hard to know whether I actually fell asleep or just spaced out, but I do seem to have lost that time. Usually it's only for 5-10 minutes. I'm still exercising plenty (2 hours walking minimum) and attempting to do some sort of meditation or breathing. I have started to watch baseball again, because I find it relaxing. I had cancelled my TV during the pandemic to save money, because the only thing I ever watched was sports and that had ceased to exist. Now that it is starting again I realized I was missing it. A top prospect for my team will make his debut tomorrow. He is a behemoth at 6'5, 260lbs and throws 100 mph. Should be fun to watch but I wouldn't want to be an opposing hitter. Throughout this entire thing, during withdrawal and before that, when I was stuck on clonazepam despite not wanting to take it and being made sick unknowningly, baseball has been one of the only things that has always maintained my interest. When I had to have a gastroscopy a few years ago for my seemingly endless stomach problems (I now know clonazepam was the culprit, despite my doctor explicitly claiming it wasn't), I actually dispensed with anaesthetic for the sole reason that I wanted to watch the opening day of baseball and actually remember it. Surprisingly, he was able to stick a long camera down my throat and into my stomach without much difficulty.

 

When I am doing well I am fairly carefree and unbothered by anxiety, but when I start doing poorly I am reminded of how treacherous PAWS can be and how tenuous recovery is. One domino starts knocking down all the others and before I know it I am back in hell (sleeping 3-4 hours, no motivation, stomach a complete mess, miserable mood, unproductive, look like hell) and the path back to stability seems fraught with obstacles. Very easy to give advice from a position of comfort, very difficult when you are not doing well yourself. But I think the fact that my own withdrawal has been so intractable and cruel has been helpful in some way. I wouldn't call it a good experience, but as Calvin's father would say "it builds character". 

 

Hobbes Deep - character building | Calvin and hobbes comics ...

 

 

Hi

How's your digestive system and sleep now in september?

I found helpful of continuously having soft cooked rice mixed with plenty of curds,salt and pinch of turmeric powder.

This makes your digestive system sooth.You can add sweet grapes,pomegranate,any other fav fruits to that.

Along with that make a habit of drinking curds mix with plenty of water,cumin seeds,corriander powder,curry leave powder,and turmeric.

This and some days at bed time taking warm turmeric milk and honey  induces sleep naturally.

Regularity is the key to recover from all the problamatic symptoms.

Hope you will let us know,how you are doing,in time to time.

Best wishes.

Cold turkeyed risperidone (1m.g)and trihexyphenidyl combination drug out of ignorance,In August 2016 after one month use.

Withdrawal symptoms settled at dreamful,disturbing sleep.

Thus introduced to olanzapine for sleep.Started using olanzapine out of ignorance.

Tapering olanzapine 10 m.g from February 2017.

May 2018 :Still suffering dreams,Still tapering olanzapine at 0.625.100ml water+2.5 mg olanzapine. June 2018 22.5ml=0.57mg.July 2018 20ml,August 2018-17.5ml,September 2018-15ml,October 2018 10 ml,December 2018 7 ml, BrassMonkey slide method so far at lower doses.2 nd December cold turkeyed , only to reach minure doses as reinstatement to cutshort endless tapering process.4rth December started 1ml.

Almost no symptoms and sleep is better,So started 0.5 ml from 17-12-2018.

"0"from31-12-18.Re birth happened from 10- 2020,as rejuvenation took whole2019.Completely recovered now.

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  • 4 weeks later...
  • Moderator

Hi @rupa,

 

Thanks so much for your response and suggestions. Sorry I missed your post initially. I was taking a bit of a break. 

 

I have just started trying soft-cooked rice. I'm trying to switch over to a more vegetarian style diet. I don't think my system is handling the ketogenic diet very well anymore. 

 

I will try to add tumeric, I used to eat rice with tumeric and cumin and really enjoyed it. 

 

I agree regularity is very important. I try to keep to a similar schedule as best I can. 

 

I hope you are doing well with recovery and symptoms. If you get time, let me know! Thanks : )

 

DG

Remeron - 2004-2005 (bad withdrawal)

Clonazepam - 2005-2018 (jumped around March)

Olanzapine - 2014- late 2017

Domperidone - 2008-2018

Many drugs in between including Lexapro, other benzos and z-drugs.

Still suffering post-withdrawal from Clonazepam (Klonopin), Olanzapine and Domperidone. 

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DataGuyHi@DataGuy

I forgot to mention lot of greens which ever available at your place.Also onion and Garlic ,tossed or raw to add the curd rice.You can google the benifits of garlic and raw  onion benifits.

About myself

I am drinking one spoon wheat grass power in warm water early in the morning.

Then I take twenty minutes in morning sun.

Then I drink the tea made with parijaatha leaves,guava leaves,moringa leaves,curry leaves,basil leaves,pinch of green tea leaves,ginger ,and honey (make powder ,boil in water)adding a lemon.

I drink this until late afternoon ,if i feel hungry i will have a lion date( processed tidy dates)or dry nut like badam or kaju or any 

a dry fruit or some fresh sprouts.

Then i am taking 200 grms curds mixed with lot of water ,until evening.

Early in the evening,6 pm, I am taking plenty of mixed veg,little carbs(rice or mixed millet roti,oats,etc)little Non veg.

Then bed time curds mix with water again.

Do you know why I am doing this?

I have detected cancer.

I am in belief that this is all withdrawal drama.

In these ten days my cancer symptoms subsided.

After 3 months ,I would go to body check again for any cancer symptom.

Almost every cancer cured with these natural remedy in india.

So fingers crossed.

A proverb:

"Live" Where ever you can.

In this planet or in any form in any where ,even in emptyness.

So chilling.🙂

 

 

Cold turkeyed risperidone (1m.g)and trihexyphenidyl combination drug out of ignorance,In August 2016 after one month use.

Withdrawal symptoms settled at dreamful,disturbing sleep.

Thus introduced to olanzapine for sleep.Started using olanzapine out of ignorance.

Tapering olanzapine 10 m.g from February 2017.

May 2018 :Still suffering dreams,Still tapering olanzapine at 0.625.100ml water+2.5 mg olanzapine. June 2018 22.5ml=0.57mg.July 2018 20ml,August 2018-17.5ml,September 2018-15ml,October 2018 10 ml,December 2018 7 ml, BrassMonkey slide method so far at lower doses.2 nd December cold turkeyed , only to reach minure doses as reinstatement to cutshort endless tapering process.4rth December started 1ml.

Almost no symptoms and sleep is better,So started 0.5 ml from 17-12-2018.

"0"from31-12-18.Re birth happened from 10- 2020,as rejuvenation took whole2019.Completely recovered now.

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  • ChessieCat changed the title to DataGuy: post withdrawal odyssey
  • 2 months later...
  • Moderator

Thanks @rupa,

 

Really appreciate your suggestions. Sorry I missed your post. I must have skipped over the notification accidentally. 

Remeron - 2004-2005 (bad withdrawal)

Clonazepam - 2005-2018 (jumped around March)

Olanzapine - 2014- late 2017

Domperidone - 2008-2018

Many drugs in between including Lexapro, other benzos and z-drugs.

Still suffering post-withdrawal from Clonazepam (Klonopin), Olanzapine and Domperidone. 

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I have had the feeling the last many months that I have been deteriorating. I've really failed to record much in my journal, so I'm not sure whether it's true, but I have definitely been sleeping worse the last few weeks, have felt little motivation and been uneasy. I've also had pretty bad stomach problems, which I attribute to overeating / eating all the time. At some point I got away from fasting and have inadvertently adopted the opposite approach, which was to use food as a way to regulate symptoms, sleep, stomach problems, energy etc. I initially fell into this when I had my best two weeks of sleep in the last 3 years, sleeping over 5 hours per night almost every night, and sometimes 6, and generally feeling much better. During this time, I realized I'd simply been eating whenever I wanted to - often - and thought it may have helped. Fast forward a few month and I am still doing the same thing, more due to inertia than any sort of planning, and I can most definitely say this is not the road to success for me. Eating all the time whenever I feel like it has been a disaster. It seems to have made my stomach much worse, and after initially helping my sleep, has made that much worse as well. I've also had an uneasy feeling and been particularly unproductive and restless.

 

Although I have had some problems in my personal life (my grandfather has developed dementia over the course of the pandemic, my mother decided to go back on the antidepressant which caused her diabetes because she had tapered too quickly and felt she couldn't function without it, that her symptoms were simply her "disorder" and unrelated to withdrawal, not to mention the pandemic itself), I'm not sure these things are the cause of my current problems. I have felt more that I haven't been able to properly deal with them due to my worsening symptoms, which have really been overwhelming everything. Lack of sleep has probably been the worst one, and has gotten down to around 4 hours per night. Stomach problems have contributed to this. It seems like I've had gastritis nearly 24/7. I seem also to have developed a sensitivity to fat / protein meals where they make me very lethargic, although not sleepy. Then there is the inability to concentrate properly and get much of anything accomplished or make any progress on my long term "to do list". 

 

I'm hoping this is all related to the excessive food intake, but I also need to exert more willpower. I feel like I've fallen into a pattern of "learned helplessness" where I give up too easily in the face of discomfort and haven't been able to accept short term worsening of symptoms for long term gain. I hope by imposing some discipline on my eating and sleeping habits I can gain more functionality in other areas of my life. I am still very much in withdrawal and suffering from the effects of overly rapid discontinuation of Clonazepam, Domperidone and Olanazapine, as well as an antidepressant prior to that. Life in the last 3 years has mostly been marked by constant discomfort of varying severity and many efforts to alleviate or mitigate it, many of which have been a failure or made things worse. I think I've got to count using food to regulate my nervous system as one of those failures. I'm hoping my body responds better to a more regular eating schedule, where I eat a similar amount at a similar time of day and avoid snacking or eating simply to alleviate short term symptoms. 

 

For anyone interested, other things I've tried that I consider to have failed are: ketogenic diet, supplements (pretty much all failed or resulted in adverse reactions), any sort of drug (prescription or over-the-counter)...there is a long list of failures here, but they all conveniently fall under a couple categories. I haven't tried any supplements or drugs in well over 2.5 years. 

 

Things that have helped: meditation, deep breathing, exercise (lots of this), intermittent fasting, socializing, progressive muscle relaxation, journaling, providing help to others, reading, avoiding doctors, avoiding computers and the internet (as much as is possible in this age), playing team sports when I can, CBT for insomnia. 

Edited by DataGuy

Remeron - 2004-2005 (bad withdrawal)

Clonazepam - 2005-2018 (jumped around March)

Olanzapine - 2014- late 2017

Domperidone - 2008-2018

Many drugs in between including Lexapro, other benzos and z-drugs.

Still suffering post-withdrawal from Clonazepam (Klonopin), Olanzapine and Domperidone. 

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Altostrata

Sorry to hear this, Dataguy. Yes, I think you'll feel better when you fix your digestive issues. Overeating can definitely be a problem, especially rich holiday food. You may be reacting to particular foods, too. You may want to keep a food diary.

 

Regardless, wishing you the best for 2021.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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Hi @DataGuyI've been wondering how you are.  You've been so helpful.  I hope you're not being too hard on yourself about eating patterns.  There's so much you're dealing with, and on top of w/d you've got family and pandemic.  Again, I'm grateful to all that you add here.  I believe I've had to deal with a number of challenges, but nothing compares to the anguishing difficulties of w/d.  Thinking of you.

Zoloft: 1995 - 2015

Prozac: 2015 - 2018 (tapered from 40mg x day on July 31 to 30mg on August 31 to 20mg on September 31 to 10mg October 31 to 0mg on  December 15, 2018

Gabapentin: 2016 to 2019  (tapered from 300mg x day to 150mg on August 31, 2019 to 75mg on September 15 to 50mg on September 31 to 25ishmg on October 15 to 0mg on December 1, 2019

Enalapril: 2010 - 2019

Lipitor: 2017 -2017

Metformin: 2000 - 2020

Liothyronine: 2007 - 2019

Levothyroxine: 2000 - 

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Thanks so much @arborand @Altostrata. I will be sure to get back to you when I am able to think a bit better. I did successfully fast last night / this morning for around 20 hours. That is one of my better ones, especially with having to work in the morning. Sleep has still been pretty bad, but I'm hoping it improves with greater discipline around food. No doubt about it, my stomach needs a rest : )

Remeron - 2004-2005 (bad withdrawal)

Clonazepam - 2005-2018 (jumped around March)

Olanzapine - 2014- late 2017

Domperidone - 2008-2018

Many drugs in between including Lexapro, other benzos and z-drugs.

Still suffering post-withdrawal from Clonazepam (Klonopin), Olanzapine and Domperidone. 

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HardTimes

@Dataguy, I'm so sorry to learn of your hard times - they coincided with a nice long window for me when I wasn't coming to this site at all. I find your situation surprising, as you come across as such an incredibly disciplined, hyper-aware person in all the help you've given me. I have loads of confidence that you'll be able to regulate the eating in no time flat. I cannot intelligently give suggestions about food issues as I have no experience there, but just from what I read it strikes me that maybe a gentler middle-ground is a good idea? As in, not too much fasting, not to much overeating, but a more straightforward 2-3 squares a day? But again, I expect you know far more about stomachs than I do and know what you are doing. I can only send you my encouragement and confidence that you are more than up to the challenge of this new bump.

 

As for sleep - I was reading something recently that made me think of you in a book called "Headtrip". The first few chapters are about sleep of different kinds. Again, it made me want to start trying to work out different kinds of insomnia experienced by people in w/d. Is it that you can't fall asleep? Or that you wake up way too early? Or that you have short patches of sleep throughout the night? Or that you sleep, but feel like you only have "low quality," half-awake sleep? When you sleep, do you ever remember dreaming? (Which is helpful in seeing what kind of sleep you are getting or missing). And when you "can't sleep" is it because physical symptoms are interfering (stomach, feeling nervous or depressed, etc), or do you just feel awake and alert and no longer sleepy? As you likely know, brain chemistry is constantly in flux throughout the night (and often very different from when we are awake). My suspicion is that something about w/d interferes with the normal smooth transition between states somehow. I think melatonin and valerian can be good if the problem is trouble getting to sleep, but I know you're very wary about supplements like that.

 

I wish I could write you lots of helpful advice as you have done for me, but really all I can do is reiterate that everything about your journey thus far demonstrates how well equipped you are to face this latest downturn. I hope you catch a few ZZZs and can remain more sanguine than I am if you don't!

15+ years Citalopram 10mg (sometimes 20?)

2019 Citalopram 5mg. No problem reduction.

2020 Citalopram 5mg to zero. (Feb)

2020 (Feb - mid Oct): Very rare use of 0.125 or .25mg Xanax for really bad nights

2020 (Feb - Nov): Occasional use of "Nytol" sleep aid (an antihistamine). 

2020 Escitalopram by accident (not Citalopram). Failed reinstatement 

 -- using a scale, started July 27 0.5mg, doubled every week or so to reach 5mg by Aug 30. Too fast - terrible depression, quit.

2020 (Oct-current): Supplements:

 -- Magnesium sometimes, Liquid Valerian/Passiflore/Escholtzia - French organic herbal sleep aid, as needed, 1.9mg Melatonin sometimes

2020 - new Citalopram reinstatement. (Accidentally started with Escitalopram before realizing and switching to Citalopram Oct. 30)

 -- using pipette method: Oct 30, 0.25mg; Nov. 4th, 0.375; Dec. 1st 0.5mg, Dec. 21st 0.75mg

Jan 16 - Adding Omega 3 (483 EPA, 360 DHA +Vit E)

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Hi Dataguy,

 

I am so sorry to hear things have gotten worse for you lately, and to hear about the difficulties you are facing with your grandfather's dementia and your mother. This is so hard and please know I am thinking of you. You mentioned you had been trying fasting and started falling into the other end of the spectrum of using food to moderate symptoms -- the exact same thing has happened to me over the past month. I wasn't sure that fasting/carefully regulating my food was helping, but then I definitely noticed when I started just eating garbage whenever I wanted that that corresponded with feeling much worse. Do you use any sort of app or website to track calories? I have found chronometer to be helpful. I also found one way that helped to hold myself accountable when I just felt completely awful and not able to feel motivated to watch my diet was having a friend challenge me to a week with no sugar, and I challenged him to a day of fasting. 

 

I am also curious to hear about your experience on the keto diet. I tried a 2.5:1 keto diet for one week. I stopped it when I found my mood decreasing rather dramatically, though I still wonder if I had maintained it if it would have ultimately been helpful. I know the day when I stopped it, I felt amazing, but then in the days following I went back to feeling generally like crap. Curious to hear about your experience when you are feeling up to it.

 

Sending support!

2005 - Zoloft, later switched to Prozac 

Summer 2020 - Discontinued Prozac

Fall 2020 - Reinstated Prozac

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