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Hopela: 10mg Zyprexa / olanzapine too fast taper


Hopela

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  • Moderator

Great to hear, @Hopela. The symptoms should gradually fade now. How gradually? I guess we won't know until they are gone, but I hope it isn't too long for you. Even if it is, they should gradually become more tolerable and less disruptive. 

Remeron - 2004-2005 (bad withdrawal)

Clonazepam - 2005-2018 (jumped around March)

Olanzapine - 2014- late 2017

Domperidone - 2008-2018

Many drugs in between including Lexapro, other benzos and z-drugs.

Still suffering post-withdrawal from Clonazepam (Klonopin), Olanzapine and Domperidone. 

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  • 4 weeks later...

Hi again, just a short update. Im still waking up once every night. But overall sleep is okay. I've also had a few twitches but nothing problematic. I still have some extra kilos while being a bit weaker but I feel like very slowly this hormonal/metabolism situation is turning in the right direction. Physically in the brain I feel a bit unrest sometimes and knowing I've been forced into a chemical lobotomy and broad chemical harm, to some unknown extent, like millions of others, for having sound natural reactions to difficult life situations I sometimes think so many other people have no idea what world they live in, what is going on. I'm therefore a bit more distanced in perceptions from people in general.  Of course there are many reasons to feel people around you are clueless. But forced lobotomization of generally healthy people is definitely one reason.

A week of oxazepam 10mg with 1 day of zopiclone 7.5mg and concurrent Zyprexa totalling: 10mg 25 days , 7.5mg 18 days, 5mg 14 days, 2.5mg 11 days,  10x0mg + 4x1mg. Very bad condition reinstated: zyprexa 7.5mg zopiclone 8.5mg, 25mg Propiomazine. Next day 5mg Z. Then 6 months taper to nothing but Zyprexa and 0.0mg again. 6 days 0mg. Reinstated 0.12mg x2 days. 23 june: 0.25mg. 29 june: 0.12mg. 8th and 9th july 2020 also tried 0.375mg Melatonin. 9 july 0.16mg. Made an error of judgement in august and was forced on various drugs in hospital mainly landing on: Abilify injections + pills for a daily total of 5-15 mg (for 2½ month) + zyprexa 3 days of 10mg mostly 2.5mg but started cheating. 14 oct 2020 only zyprexa and due to cheating earlier able to go 0.31mg! 30 oct 0.21mg, 13 nov 0.14mg, 28 nov 0.10mg, 14 dec 0.07mg, 04 jan 2021 0.035mg, 25 jan 0.017mg, 4 feb 2021 0.000 mg

 

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  • Moderator

Great to hear from you @Hopela. Glad you are doing ok. If you ever need to talk about these things, please feel free to post about them. There is a strong psych survivor community online. 

 

It's indeed a shame they feel the need to force medications on people. They should not have that power, and eventually we hope to change that. And yes, most people are clueless about the medical profession. Even many in the medical profession are clueless about the medical profession. I encounter them often. 😂

Remeron - 2004-2005 (bad withdrawal)

Clonazepam - 2005-2018 (jumped around March)

Olanzapine - 2014- late 2017

Domperidone - 2008-2018

Many drugs in between including Lexapro, other benzos and z-drugs.

Still suffering post-withdrawal from Clonazepam (Klonopin), Olanzapine and Domperidone. 

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On 3/15/2021 at 7:05 PM, Hopela said:

Hi again, just a short update. Im still waking up once every night. But overall sleep is okay. I've also had a few twitches but nothing problematic. I still have some extra kilos while being a bit weaker but I feel like very slowly this hormonal/metabolism situation is turning in the right direction. Physically in the brain I feel a bit unrest sometimes and knowing I've been forced into a chemical lobotomy and broad chemical harm, to some unknown extent, like millions of others, for having sound natural reactions to difficult life situations I sometimes think so many other people have no idea what world they live in, what is going on. I'm therefore a bit more distanced in perceptions from people in general.  Of course there are many reasons to feel people around you are clueless. But forced lobotomization of generally healthy people is definitely one reason.

Hi, what supplements are you taking today?

I think you have done a great job geting back you sleep so quickly!

2015june psyc ward due to psychosis

10 days 10mg zyprexa. stopped cold turkey. side effects were blinking eyes, eyes shut down by themself when going to sleep, restless,hunger. I had natural sleep (6hrs) before zyprexa. Slept exact 8hours with zyprexa.

 

2015july one month after cold turkey(had own sleep during this time exact 8hours every night, felt like zyprexa sleep even though i didnt take it) I lost my sleep over a night and it never came back. 0hours for 7-10days before I had to reinstate zyprexa on 5mg first 2days 10mg 1week 5mg 1week and then stopped CT. maybe also had 7.5 and 2.5 some days dont remember.

 

2015sept/october 3weeks Nitrazepam 1w Theralen build of sleep

 

2016may psyc ward psychoziz. Trilafon injection Immovan 3weekz

 

2016june 1week theralen had some extra sleep but realised its just pushing problem forward i guess

 

2019 Ive now been medicine free for almost 2.5 years (I think last Trilafon injection was 2016 October) and still not fully recovered. I believe my overdose on Zyprexa (20mg + injection) did most damage. 

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On 3/17/2021 at 9:58 AM, DataGuy said:

They should not have that power, and eventually we hope to change that. And yes, most people are clueless about the medical profession

Thanks for reply DataGuy. One can hope. Unfortunately I don't see large chances. Talking of the profession I got blood test results recently and my LDL was quite high now. The doctors who do not know Im recently off the chemicals said nothing about that Olanzapine has that side effect only diversions about possibly having eaten something fat or not exercised. Then she started talking about starting to use statins to lower cholesterol but according to a table using blood pressure and age I was okay to not get on them...yet. And statins seems so be a comparable scam to psychiatry. Fortunately they can't lock people up and force them and withdrawals might(!) be quicker and young people tend to be spared. There are lies, damned lies, and stati..ns ...and psychiatry... and...

A week of oxazepam 10mg with 1 day of zopiclone 7.5mg and concurrent Zyprexa totalling: 10mg 25 days , 7.5mg 18 days, 5mg 14 days, 2.5mg 11 days,  10x0mg + 4x1mg. Very bad condition reinstated: zyprexa 7.5mg zopiclone 8.5mg, 25mg Propiomazine. Next day 5mg Z. Then 6 months taper to nothing but Zyprexa and 0.0mg again. 6 days 0mg. Reinstated 0.12mg x2 days. 23 june: 0.25mg. 29 june: 0.12mg. 8th and 9th july 2020 also tried 0.375mg Melatonin. 9 july 0.16mg. Made an error of judgement in august and was forced on various drugs in hospital mainly landing on: Abilify injections + pills for a daily total of 5-15 mg (for 2½ month) + zyprexa 3 days of 10mg mostly 2.5mg but started cheating. 14 oct 2020 only zyprexa and due to cheating earlier able to go 0.31mg! 30 oct 0.21mg, 13 nov 0.14mg, 28 nov 0.10mg, 14 dec 0.07mg, 04 jan 2021 0.035mg, 25 jan 0.017mg, 4 feb 2021 0.000 mg

 

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23 hours ago, frasier23 said:

Hi, what supplements are you taking today?

I think you have done a great job geting back you sleep so quickly!

Hi frasier23,

I'm now taking a multivitamin with minerals, a D vitamin 2000 IU and C vitamin 500mg per day.  My sleep was lost in december 2019 when going from 10 to 0 mg much too fast and reinstating at high level did not help regain it. Since I wasn't sleeping no matter what I thought I might aswell  taper down but slower. 6 months later I was down to 0 mg  again and sleep was up from 0 hours to a few hours. But the taper was too fast again. I think it wasnt until november 2020 or so I got 6 hours of sleep while being on a small amount of the chemical. Im probably getting 6 hours now also, broken once, but no chemical.

 

For completeness of symptoms I shoud add I'm also having brain zaps occasionally still, maybe higher tendency for nightmares, and increased tinnitus and involuntary contractions. In fact a female was sharing bed with me a few days ago and I woke up with her asking me what was going on, apparently I had been shaking over the whole body. Probably like I noticed myself "swimming" one time when waking up. This time it was over when I became conscious though. Never happened before the chemical so I told her it was damage from the chemical.

A week of oxazepam 10mg with 1 day of zopiclone 7.5mg and concurrent Zyprexa totalling: 10mg 25 days , 7.5mg 18 days, 5mg 14 days, 2.5mg 11 days,  10x0mg + 4x1mg. Very bad condition reinstated: zyprexa 7.5mg zopiclone 8.5mg, 25mg Propiomazine. Next day 5mg Z. Then 6 months taper to nothing but Zyprexa and 0.0mg again. 6 days 0mg. Reinstated 0.12mg x2 days. 23 june: 0.25mg. 29 june: 0.12mg. 8th and 9th july 2020 also tried 0.375mg Melatonin. 9 july 0.16mg. Made an error of judgement in august and was forced on various drugs in hospital mainly landing on: Abilify injections + pills for a daily total of 5-15 mg (for 2½ month) + zyprexa 3 days of 10mg mostly 2.5mg but started cheating. 14 oct 2020 only zyprexa and due to cheating earlier able to go 0.31mg! 30 oct 0.21mg, 13 nov 0.14mg, 28 nov 0.10mg, 14 dec 0.07mg, 04 jan 2021 0.035mg, 25 jan 0.017mg, 4 feb 2021 0.000 mg

 

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I'm wondering if what I'm having when waking up, perhaps even causing me to wake up, is best categorized as clonic seizures. I'm searching for this symptom as a withdrawal effect of Olanzapine without finding it. Seizures are commonly associated with benzo withdrawal and Olanzapine is a thienobenzodiazepine having it's GABAA receptor activity mostly on the α2 subunit. The science says for epileptics (which I've never been) olanzapine (and more antipsychotics) lowers seizure threshold. If it was a homeostasis dynamic withdrawal would then protect against seizures. So instead maybe it's more a situation of damage done by the chemical which may or may not improve over time. Also I'm wondering if there are any clear underlying differences between "clonic seizures" and "dyskinesias" typically associated with antipsychotics or if it's just a tendency to use these words in different discourses while describing the same symptoms and even dealing with same, similar or somewhat unknown underlying causes.

A week of oxazepam 10mg with 1 day of zopiclone 7.5mg and concurrent Zyprexa totalling: 10mg 25 days , 7.5mg 18 days, 5mg 14 days, 2.5mg 11 days,  10x0mg + 4x1mg. Very bad condition reinstated: zyprexa 7.5mg zopiclone 8.5mg, 25mg Propiomazine. Next day 5mg Z. Then 6 months taper to nothing but Zyprexa and 0.0mg again. 6 days 0mg. Reinstated 0.12mg x2 days. 23 june: 0.25mg. 29 june: 0.12mg. 8th and 9th july 2020 also tried 0.375mg Melatonin. 9 july 0.16mg. Made an error of judgement in august and was forced on various drugs in hospital mainly landing on: Abilify injections + pills for a daily total of 5-15 mg (for 2½ month) + zyprexa 3 days of 10mg mostly 2.5mg but started cheating. 14 oct 2020 only zyprexa and due to cheating earlier able to go 0.31mg! 30 oct 0.21mg, 13 nov 0.14mg, 28 nov 0.10mg, 14 dec 0.07mg, 04 jan 2021 0.035mg, 25 jan 0.017mg, 4 feb 2021 0.000 mg

 

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  • Moderator

@Hopela what is the main evidence you are having a seizure as opposed to simply having muscle jerks? Do you tend to wake up very confused? 

Remeron - 2004-2005 (bad withdrawal)

Clonazepam - 2005-2018 (jumped around March)

Olanzapine - 2014- late 2017

Domperidone - 2008-2018

Many drugs in between including Lexapro, other benzos and z-drugs.

Still suffering post-withdrawal from Clonazepam (Klonopin), Olanzapine and Domperidone. 

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5 minutes ago, DataGuy said:

seizure as opposed to simply having muscle jerks

Going through all the various types of seizures suchs as "myoclonic seizure", "focal aware seizures" and "psychogenic seizures" I'm having trouble there seeing there is really a distinction to be made without further specifying what type of seizure is meant?

 

I can't say if I'm more confused than normally. It was quite confusing waking up from a dream of swimming to notice my chest, neck, arms and legs jerking. It was also a bit confusing being asked what's going on without having any recollection of jerks or even dreaming that time.

A week of oxazepam 10mg with 1 day of zopiclone 7.5mg and concurrent Zyprexa totalling: 10mg 25 days , 7.5mg 18 days, 5mg 14 days, 2.5mg 11 days,  10x0mg + 4x1mg. Very bad condition reinstated: zyprexa 7.5mg zopiclone 8.5mg, 25mg Propiomazine. Next day 5mg Z. Then 6 months taper to nothing but Zyprexa and 0.0mg again. 6 days 0mg. Reinstated 0.12mg x2 days. 23 june: 0.25mg. 29 june: 0.12mg. 8th and 9th july 2020 also tried 0.375mg Melatonin. 9 july 0.16mg. Made an error of judgement in august and was forced on various drugs in hospital mainly landing on: Abilify injections + pills for a daily total of 5-15 mg (for 2½ month) + zyprexa 3 days of 10mg mostly 2.5mg but started cheating. 14 oct 2020 only zyprexa and due to cheating earlier able to go 0.31mg! 30 oct 0.21mg, 13 nov 0.14mg, 28 nov 0.10mg, 14 dec 0.07mg, 04 jan 2021 0.035mg, 25 jan 0.017mg, 4 feb 2021 0.000 mg

 

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  • Moderator

@Hopela I think it is tough to tell without knowing your exact symptoms. But you're right, the distinction between seizures and other things might be a bit nebulous. Altostrata has hypothesized that brain zaps are something akin to seizure activity. I think these things will get better as your nervous system heals itself. Best thing you can do is keep yourself healthy, plenty of exercise, good food and good company. Until then I would expect the usual pattern of waxing and waning symptoms. Would be great if we knew exactly why these things happen. Hope you feel better soon!

Remeron - 2004-2005 (bad withdrawal)

Clonazepam - 2005-2018 (jumped around March)

Olanzapine - 2014- late 2017

Domperidone - 2008-2018

Many drugs in between including Lexapro, other benzos and z-drugs.

Still suffering post-withdrawal from Clonazepam (Klonopin), Olanzapine and Domperidone. 

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2 hours ago, DataGuy said:

Best thing you can do is keep yourself healthy, plenty of exercise, good food and good company

Thanks DataGuy I will do so!

A week of oxazepam 10mg with 1 day of zopiclone 7.5mg and concurrent Zyprexa totalling: 10mg 25 days , 7.5mg 18 days, 5mg 14 days, 2.5mg 11 days,  10x0mg + 4x1mg. Very bad condition reinstated: zyprexa 7.5mg zopiclone 8.5mg, 25mg Propiomazine. Next day 5mg Z. Then 6 months taper to nothing but Zyprexa and 0.0mg again. 6 days 0mg. Reinstated 0.12mg x2 days. 23 june: 0.25mg. 29 june: 0.12mg. 8th and 9th july 2020 also tried 0.375mg Melatonin. 9 july 0.16mg. Made an error of judgement in august and was forced on various drugs in hospital mainly landing on: Abilify injections + pills for a daily total of 5-15 mg (for 2½ month) + zyprexa 3 days of 10mg mostly 2.5mg but started cheating. 14 oct 2020 only zyprexa and due to cheating earlier able to go 0.31mg! 30 oct 0.21mg, 13 nov 0.14mg, 28 nov 0.10mg, 14 dec 0.07mg, 04 jan 2021 0.035mg, 25 jan 0.017mg, 4 feb 2021 0.000 mg

 

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In my last visit to the shrink (good word for someone who actually shrinks your brain with chemicals) when asked of supplements I told her of having gotten N-AcetylCystein (NAC) after covid since it was a potential aid in covid and in general. I have only taken a few tablets occasionally after exercise so it's not a regular supplement for me.

 

Of course she knew nothing of it with regards to covid or anything else. But she also made no mention of this:

N-acetylcysteine prevents olanzapine-induced oxidative stress

Quote

NAC was able to mitigate olanzapine-induced effects.

...

olanzapine concentration in this study ranging between 25 and 150 µM used for neuronal culture may mimic the micro molar concentration of olanzapine predicted in the CNS of patients

...

we confirm that olanzapine also inhibits the formation of autophagolysosomes in mHypoA-59 hypothalamic neurons and thereby causes cell death

...

This present study demonstrates that olanzapine induces cell death in mHypoA-59 hypothalamic neurons in a dose and time-dependent manner

...

concentration of ≥ 100 µM olanzapine causes oxidative stress while lower concentrations do not

...

we found that NAC reverses olanzapine-induced oxidative stress, mitochondrial damage and LC3B-II.

...

Given that NAC has beneficial effects in schizophrenia patients, it is possible that NAC administered in conjunction with olanzapine may alleviate olanzapine-induced effects

 

In short: NAC might reduce lobotomization of Olanzapine victims.

A week of oxazepam 10mg with 1 day of zopiclone 7.5mg and concurrent Zyprexa totalling: 10mg 25 days , 7.5mg 18 days, 5mg 14 days, 2.5mg 11 days,  10x0mg + 4x1mg. Very bad condition reinstated: zyprexa 7.5mg zopiclone 8.5mg, 25mg Propiomazine. Next day 5mg Z. Then 6 months taper to nothing but Zyprexa and 0.0mg again. 6 days 0mg. Reinstated 0.12mg x2 days. 23 june: 0.25mg. 29 june: 0.12mg. 8th and 9th july 2020 also tried 0.375mg Melatonin. 9 july 0.16mg. Made an error of judgement in august and was forced on various drugs in hospital mainly landing on: Abilify injections + pills for a daily total of 5-15 mg (for 2½ month) + zyprexa 3 days of 10mg mostly 2.5mg but started cheating. 14 oct 2020 only zyprexa and due to cheating earlier able to go 0.31mg! 30 oct 0.21mg, 13 nov 0.14mg, 28 nov 0.10mg, 14 dec 0.07mg, 04 jan 2021 0.035mg, 25 jan 0.017mg, 4 feb 2021 0.000 mg

 

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Addendum: Seems shrink normally means psychologist which should not be confused with a psychiatrist that deals with chemicals. Given the brain shrinking effects of antipsychotics I think shrink should mean a psychiatrist though.

A week of oxazepam 10mg with 1 day of zopiclone 7.5mg and concurrent Zyprexa totalling: 10mg 25 days , 7.5mg 18 days, 5mg 14 days, 2.5mg 11 days,  10x0mg + 4x1mg. Very bad condition reinstated: zyprexa 7.5mg zopiclone 8.5mg, 25mg Propiomazine. Next day 5mg Z. Then 6 months taper to nothing but Zyprexa and 0.0mg again. 6 days 0mg. Reinstated 0.12mg x2 days. 23 june: 0.25mg. 29 june: 0.12mg. 8th and 9th july 2020 also tried 0.375mg Melatonin. 9 july 0.16mg. Made an error of judgement in august and was forced on various drugs in hospital mainly landing on: Abilify injections + pills for a daily total of 5-15 mg (for 2½ month) + zyprexa 3 days of 10mg mostly 2.5mg but started cheating. 14 oct 2020 only zyprexa and due to cheating earlier able to go 0.31mg! 30 oct 0.21mg, 13 nov 0.14mg, 28 nov 0.10mg, 14 dec 0.07mg, 04 jan 2021 0.035mg, 25 jan 0.017mg, 4 feb 2021 0.000 mg

 

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Slept kind of bad with brain zaps. Woke up the n:th time to a brain zap and tardive dyskinesia in my left cheek. As I awoke more fully the TD disappeared. I'm quite fortunate to have problematic TD while waking up. The bed is a good place to be for that. Found that Vitamin B6 might improve it. Of course I never should have been forced any poison to begin with. But now I will look to see if I can supplement a little to reduce it's effects.

 

A week of oxazepam 10mg with 1 day of zopiclone 7.5mg and concurrent Zyprexa totalling: 10mg 25 days , 7.5mg 18 days, 5mg 14 days, 2.5mg 11 days,  10x0mg + 4x1mg. Very bad condition reinstated: zyprexa 7.5mg zopiclone 8.5mg, 25mg Propiomazine. Next day 5mg Z. Then 6 months taper to nothing but Zyprexa and 0.0mg again. 6 days 0mg. Reinstated 0.12mg x2 days. 23 june: 0.25mg. 29 june: 0.12mg. 8th and 9th july 2020 also tried 0.375mg Melatonin. 9 july 0.16mg. Made an error of judgement in august and was forced on various drugs in hospital mainly landing on: Abilify injections + pills for a daily total of 5-15 mg (for 2½ month) + zyprexa 3 days of 10mg mostly 2.5mg but started cheating. 14 oct 2020 only zyprexa and due to cheating earlier able to go 0.31mg! 30 oct 0.21mg, 13 nov 0.14mg, 28 nov 0.10mg, 14 dec 0.07mg, 04 jan 2021 0.035mg, 25 jan 0.017mg, 4 feb 2021 0.000 mg

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

I ordered vitamin B6 combined with magnesium but havent started using it yet:

https://www.amazon.com/Solgar-Magnesium-Vitamin-250-Tablets/dp/B00020ICAI/

 

This has a fraction of the B6 in some studies on dyskinesias but close to maxes out what is otherwise deemed tolerable long term and is still 10-20 times RDI, taking 2 tablets per day.

Getting some B6 with magnesium may have a synergistic effects.

 

I've joined a gym. Had some muscle jerks. No brain zaps.

A week of oxazepam 10mg with 1 day of zopiclone 7.5mg and concurrent Zyprexa totalling: 10mg 25 days , 7.5mg 18 days, 5mg 14 days, 2.5mg 11 days,  10x0mg + 4x1mg. Very bad condition reinstated: zyprexa 7.5mg zopiclone 8.5mg, 25mg Propiomazine. Next day 5mg Z. Then 6 months taper to nothing but Zyprexa and 0.0mg again. 6 days 0mg. Reinstated 0.12mg x2 days. 23 june: 0.25mg. 29 june: 0.12mg. 8th and 9th july 2020 also tried 0.375mg Melatonin. 9 july 0.16mg. Made an error of judgement in august and was forced on various drugs in hospital mainly landing on: Abilify injections + pills for a daily total of 5-15 mg (for 2½ month) + zyprexa 3 days of 10mg mostly 2.5mg but started cheating. 14 oct 2020 only zyprexa and due to cheating earlier able to go 0.31mg! 30 oct 0.21mg, 13 nov 0.14mg, 28 nov 0.10mg, 14 dec 0.07mg, 04 jan 2021 0.035mg, 25 jan 0.017mg, 4 feb 2021 0.000 mg

 

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  • Moderator

That is great to here, @Hopela. Remember that many of these studies are short term, so they don't tell you what happens when you take these things long term (just like many of the antipsychotics studies). I still think it is best to be very conservative with the supplements, they might help but I think without rigorous testing we have to assume they are more likely to cause problems or delays in healing. Very tough to say without large randomized controlled trials. 

 

Hope the gym membership goes well : )  I workout a bit myself but mostly run.

Remeron - 2004-2005 (bad withdrawal)

Clonazepam - 2005-2018 (jumped around March)

Olanzapine - 2014- late 2017

Domperidone - 2008-2018

Many drugs in between including Lexapro, other benzos and z-drugs.

Still suffering post-withdrawal from Clonazepam (Klonopin), Olanzapine and Domperidone. 

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On 4/15/2021 at 1:48 PM, DataGuy said:

I still think it is best to be very conservative with the supplements

Hi DataGuy, I will not use it continuosly more than a few days and take max 2 pills/day, ie 267 mg Mg and 17 m B6. Started today.

 

I also did a fast. First 15 hours, regular breakfast, then 25 hours more. Was thinking of a 36 hour goal but since I hadn't had 3 straight meals leading into the 25 this 15+25 was a good one. I felt more energetic and slept worse. Lost 2 kg. Had more brain zaps. Not a success, not a failure. Will try a long fast again but I'm leaning towards regular 16/8 -ish being better for me than alternate day fasting for example. (typically I do 13-17h fast 6 days and 18-22 h 1 day as it suits situations)

A week of oxazepam 10mg with 1 day of zopiclone 7.5mg and concurrent Zyprexa totalling: 10mg 25 days , 7.5mg 18 days, 5mg 14 days, 2.5mg 11 days,  10x0mg + 4x1mg. Very bad condition reinstated: zyprexa 7.5mg zopiclone 8.5mg, 25mg Propiomazine. Next day 5mg Z. Then 6 months taper to nothing but Zyprexa and 0.0mg again. 6 days 0mg. Reinstated 0.12mg x2 days. 23 june: 0.25mg. 29 june: 0.12mg. 8th and 9th july 2020 also tried 0.375mg Melatonin. 9 july 0.16mg. Made an error of judgement in august and was forced on various drugs in hospital mainly landing on: Abilify injections + pills for a daily total of 5-15 mg (for 2½ month) + zyprexa 3 days of 10mg mostly 2.5mg but started cheating. 14 oct 2020 only zyprexa and due to cheating earlier able to go 0.31mg! 30 oct 0.21mg, 13 nov 0.14mg, 28 nov 0.10mg, 14 dec 0.07mg, 04 jan 2021 0.035mg, 25 jan 0.017mg, 4 feb 2021 0.000 mg

 

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  • Moderator

I.F sounds better than extended fasts if your body is stressed enough to be having brain zaps

I am not a health professional - your actions are your own.  

Please do not seek tapering support via private message - "Any reason to hold is a good one"

My taper visualised as a graph   |   My intro thread

Backdrop:  2003 10mg olanzapine | 2004 2-3mg risperidone | end 2014 3wks aripiprazole

2015: olanzapine  10 -> 7½ -> 6⅔ -> 5mg  by crude pill cutter

2018:  Mar 5.00mg -> water titrated taper -> Aug2.5mg tablet and hold

Jan 2019 2.50mg water titration -> Jan 2020 1.214  -> Jan 2021 0.44 -> 2 Oct 0.205 ->3 Oct ZERO🥂

Jun 2023 💉150mg paliperidone "loading" depot shot, 100mg 1wk after Jul 100mg Aug-Dec 75mg/4wks

Jul 2023 2.50mg aripiprazole/day attempt to lower prolactin^

Jan-Feb 2024 cross taper off shots to 1mg risperidone

 

Ask not what you can do for your country, but what your country did to you"  -- KMFDM

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22 minutes ago, hayduke said:

I.F sounds better than extended fasts if your body is stressed enough to be having brain zaps

Thanks Hayduke, I was inspired by your 7 day fast. Happy to have tried a slight extension for now.

A week of oxazepam 10mg with 1 day of zopiclone 7.5mg and concurrent Zyprexa totalling: 10mg 25 days , 7.5mg 18 days, 5mg 14 days, 2.5mg 11 days,  10x0mg + 4x1mg. Very bad condition reinstated: zyprexa 7.5mg zopiclone 8.5mg, 25mg Propiomazine. Next day 5mg Z. Then 6 months taper to nothing but Zyprexa and 0.0mg again. 6 days 0mg. Reinstated 0.12mg x2 days. 23 june: 0.25mg. 29 june: 0.12mg. 8th and 9th july 2020 also tried 0.375mg Melatonin. 9 july 0.16mg. Made an error of judgement in august and was forced on various drugs in hospital mainly landing on: Abilify injections + pills for a daily total of 5-15 mg (for 2½ month) + zyprexa 3 days of 10mg mostly 2.5mg but started cheating. 14 oct 2020 only zyprexa and due to cheating earlier able to go 0.31mg! 30 oct 0.21mg, 13 nov 0.14mg, 28 nov 0.10mg, 14 dec 0.07mg, 04 jan 2021 0.035mg, 25 jan 0.017mg, 4 feb 2021 0.000 mg

 

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  • Moderator
6 hours ago, Hopela said:

Hi DataGuy, I will not use it continuosly more than a few days and take max 2 pills/day, ie 267 mg Mg and 17 m B6. Started today.

 

I also did a fast. First 15 hours, regular breakfast, then 25 hours more. Was thinking of a 36 hour goal but since I hadn't had 3 straight meals leading into the 25 this 15+25 was a good one. I felt more energetic and slept worse. Lost 2 kg. Had more brain zaps. Not a success, not a failure. Will try a long fast again but I'm leaning towards regular 16/8 -ish being better for me than alternate day fasting for example. (typically I do 13-17h fast 6 days and 18-22 h 1 day as it suits situations)

 

Interesting, thanks for the update @Hopela. Fasting can definitely ramp up anxiety, especially if you are suppressing hunger. I think @hayduke is right, intermittent fasting can be a good solution to this. Once you get into a rhythm, you find your body doesn't get hungry until the feeding window, even if you haven't eaten for 18 hours or so. I always feel better near the end of the IF fast, because I've had so many problems with my stomach since jumping. Seems I feel every particle of food down there until it is gone. 

Remeron - 2004-2005 (bad withdrawal)

Clonazepam - 2005-2018 (jumped around March)

Olanzapine - 2014- late 2017

Domperidone - 2008-2018

Many drugs in between including Lexapro, other benzos and z-drugs.

Still suffering post-withdrawal from Clonazepam (Klonopin), Olanzapine and Domperidone. 

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  • Moderator

Agree with @DataGuy , don’t get too hung up on twitches etc being worse than what they are.  

 

Your body has to get used to dopamine again, give it the time to

 

Cheers

I am not a health professional - your actions are your own.  

Please do not seek tapering support via private message - "Any reason to hold is a good one"

My taper visualised as a graph   |   My intro thread

Backdrop:  2003 10mg olanzapine | 2004 2-3mg risperidone | end 2014 3wks aripiprazole

2015: olanzapine  10 -> 7½ -> 6⅔ -> 5mg  by crude pill cutter

2018:  Mar 5.00mg -> water titrated taper -> Aug2.5mg tablet and hold

Jan 2019 2.50mg water titration -> Jan 2020 1.214  -> Jan 2021 0.44 -> 2 Oct 0.205 ->3 Oct ZERO🥂

Jun 2023 💉150mg paliperidone "loading" depot shot, 100mg 1wk after Jul 100mg Aug-Dec 75mg/4wks

Jul 2023 2.50mg aripiprazole/day attempt to lower prolactin^

Jan-Feb 2024 cross taper off shots to 1mg risperidone

 

Ask not what you can do for your country, but what your country did to you"  -- KMFDM

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  • 1 month later...

How's it going hopela

2013-2018 dxm and alcohol abused

Feb-2020 40mg adderall, 20 mg paroxetine

Jun-2020 15mg olanzapine, 30mg paroxetine, 40mg adderall

Dec-2020 CT everything

Mar-22-2021 10mg olanzapine, 100mg trazadone, 300mg ×2 trileptal

April-25- 2021 CT olanzapine and trazadone

Apirl-29-2021 reinstated 5mg olanzapine

Apirl 29-Current- 5mg olanzapine

Mar 22-current 300mg ×2 trileptal

 

 

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16 hours ago, NNhope said:

How's it going hopela

Hi NNHope,

I'm doing better. Still waking up once every night. Rarely but sometimes with rapid involuntary muscle contractions. I've managed to lose 1 kg of the excess weight. Just read about someone who took three years to sleep well after going off. So even though I feel my sleep is good enough I haven't given up on getting a whole nights sleep yet. Things are going in the right direction.

A week of oxazepam 10mg with 1 day of zopiclone 7.5mg and concurrent Zyprexa totalling: 10mg 25 days , 7.5mg 18 days, 5mg 14 days, 2.5mg 11 days,  10x0mg + 4x1mg. Very bad condition reinstated: zyprexa 7.5mg zopiclone 8.5mg, 25mg Propiomazine. Next day 5mg Z. Then 6 months taper to nothing but Zyprexa and 0.0mg again. 6 days 0mg. Reinstated 0.12mg x2 days. 23 june: 0.25mg. 29 june: 0.12mg. 8th and 9th july 2020 also tried 0.375mg Melatonin. 9 july 0.16mg. Made an error of judgement in august and was forced on various drugs in hospital mainly landing on: Abilify injections + pills for a daily total of 5-15 mg (for 2½ month) + zyprexa 3 days of 10mg mostly 2.5mg but started cheating. 14 oct 2020 only zyprexa and due to cheating earlier able to go 0.31mg! 30 oct 0.21mg, 13 nov 0.14mg, 28 nov 0.10mg, 14 dec 0.07mg, 04 jan 2021 0.035mg, 25 jan 0.017mg, 4 feb 2021 0.000 mg

 

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I am glad to here you are doing better. I am scared to taper. When I tried to CT 10mg  I got akathisia and pretty bad anxiety. I'm on 5 mg now and stabilizing. Knowing that you're doing better give me some hope.

 

Did you ever get akathisia? Like the need to pace around and cant sit still.

2013-2018 dxm and alcohol abused

Feb-2020 40mg adderall, 20 mg paroxetine

Jun-2020 15mg olanzapine, 30mg paroxetine, 40mg adderall

Dec-2020 CT everything

Mar-22-2021 10mg olanzapine, 100mg trazadone, 300mg ×2 trileptal

April-25- 2021 CT olanzapine and trazadone

Apirl-29-2021 reinstated 5mg olanzapine

Apirl 29-Current- 5mg olanzapine

Mar 22-current 300mg ×2 trileptal

 

 

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Just now, NNhope said:

Did you ever get akathisia? Like the need to pace around and cant sit still.

I got it from being put on Abilify. I could not stay in bed at night. I went from the bed to the sofa to the bed to the sofa to the bed to the softa to the bed to the sofa and so on all night all nights while watching the minutes pass slowly until morning for some months, occasionally getting some hours of sleep. I called it all night wrestling matches. Trying to wrestle myself to rest. For me it came with going on Abilify and went away when stopping Abilify luckily!

A week of oxazepam 10mg with 1 day of zopiclone 7.5mg and concurrent Zyprexa totalling: 10mg 25 days , 7.5mg 18 days, 5mg 14 days, 2.5mg 11 days,  10x0mg + 4x1mg. Very bad condition reinstated: zyprexa 7.5mg zopiclone 8.5mg, 25mg Propiomazine. Next day 5mg Z. Then 6 months taper to nothing but Zyprexa and 0.0mg again. 6 days 0mg. Reinstated 0.12mg x2 days. 23 june: 0.25mg. 29 june: 0.12mg. 8th and 9th july 2020 also tried 0.375mg Melatonin. 9 july 0.16mg. Made an error of judgement in august and was forced on various drugs in hospital mainly landing on: Abilify injections + pills for a daily total of 5-15 mg (for 2½ month) + zyprexa 3 days of 10mg mostly 2.5mg but started cheating. 14 oct 2020 only zyprexa and due to cheating earlier able to go 0.31mg! 30 oct 0.21mg, 13 nov 0.14mg, 28 nov 0.10mg, 14 dec 0.07mg, 04 jan 2021 0.035mg, 25 jan 0.017mg, 4 feb 2021 0.000 mg

 

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That's fortunate that it went away. I hope by tapering I wont get it as bad as I did when I tried to CT.

2013-2018 dxm and alcohol abused

Feb-2020 40mg adderall, 20 mg paroxetine

Jun-2020 15mg olanzapine, 30mg paroxetine, 40mg adderall

Dec-2020 CT everything

Mar-22-2021 10mg olanzapine, 100mg trazadone, 300mg ×2 trileptal

April-25- 2021 CT olanzapine and trazadone

Apirl-29-2021 reinstated 5mg olanzapine

Apirl 29-Current- 5mg olanzapine

Mar 22-current 300mg ×2 trileptal

 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • Moderator

Great to hear from you @Hopela. Sounds like you're doing well. Hope you are able to get a full night's sleep soon!

Remeron - 2004-2005 (bad withdrawal)

Clonazepam - 2005-2018 (jumped around March)

Olanzapine - 2014- late 2017

Domperidone - 2008-2018

Many drugs in between including Lexapro, other benzos and z-drugs.

Still suffering post-withdrawal from Clonazepam (Klonopin), Olanzapine and Domperidone. 

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Thanks DataGuy hope things are turning better for you too.

 

I thought I'd share I had recent increased physical disturbance in the brain with a few bad nights eventually stopping me from sleeping a whole night in conjunction with an increased anxiety and "acidic" feelings in the brain. I think prior AP use were a factor but also warmer nights and having spent too much time digesting alarming reports on current events and situations.

 

The feeling was similar to a run up to the two times that had landed me in hospital. I was under no specific personal threats to my life this time (previously spoken by a relative) and more aware of internal neurological possible sources for the situation. I was starting to consider taking medicine to get sleep and be free of the bad sensations in the brain and ultimately I did take 3.75mg of Zopiclone at 7 am in the morning. It only worked for 45 minutes or so of being passed out. I stayed off Olanzapine though which Im very glad for!

 

With minimial sleep I went about the next day tired but chose to spend it in good company completely off the internet and current events and instead enjoyed "distractions" as much as I could, walking, sunshine, nice views, good food. I passed out by 4pm naturally.  I was also able to sleep the following nights.

 

The cure was drug free. And a pause from focusing on the alarms. The brain has limitations you need to act in accordance with. If anything positive has come from the forced chemicals it's awareness of that.

 

I think it's important to get knowledge of the situations around us, like corona and the vaccines, yet  dealing with threatening sitations pretty much alone except for strangers on the internet all hours of the day for days on end might be too much for anyone actually.

 

Knowing something doesn't save your health if it stops you from sleeping. And it pretty much doesn't help anyone else either. Since people tend to not listen when you tell them. I warned amongst others my mother of the vaccines yet she took it and has been in the hospital for many weeks now most likely because of it. Prognosis given the situation is good though. I've kept researching but I can only save myself if that it seems which means sleeping.

 

Just thought I'd share having now experienced the right way to deal with alarm over stimulation, not being locked up and posioned but living a good life almost as if there were no troubles, just for a time, because your brain can't cope otherwise. Not always something one can do though so I feel a bit lucky about that I was able to do that and regain my sleep to okay levels this time.

A week of oxazepam 10mg with 1 day of zopiclone 7.5mg and concurrent Zyprexa totalling: 10mg 25 days , 7.5mg 18 days, 5mg 14 days, 2.5mg 11 days,  10x0mg + 4x1mg. Very bad condition reinstated: zyprexa 7.5mg zopiclone 8.5mg, 25mg Propiomazine. Next day 5mg Z. Then 6 months taper to nothing but Zyprexa and 0.0mg again. 6 days 0mg. Reinstated 0.12mg x2 days. 23 june: 0.25mg. 29 june: 0.12mg. 8th and 9th july 2020 also tried 0.375mg Melatonin. 9 july 0.16mg. Made an error of judgement in august and was forced on various drugs in hospital mainly landing on: Abilify injections + pills for a daily total of 5-15 mg (for 2½ month) + zyprexa 3 days of 10mg mostly 2.5mg but started cheating. 14 oct 2020 only zyprexa and due to cheating earlier able to go 0.31mg! 30 oct 0.21mg, 13 nov 0.14mg, 28 nov 0.10mg, 14 dec 0.07mg, 04 jan 2021 0.035mg, 25 jan 0.017mg, 4 feb 2021 0.000 mg

 

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  • Moderator

Happy to hear you are doing well, @Hopela. Hopefully that situation doesn't arise too often, but if it does you know what to do. 

 

I agree, spending too much time on the internet with strangers is not a great idea. Much better to spend it in good company with family or friends. And you can only read so much about various dystopian happenings around the world. Often we can't do much about those things anyway, so no sense worrying about them. I think I have probably been doing too much of that myself. 

 

Sorry to hear about your mom, hopefully she has some improvement soon! Tough times on the health front for many people. 

Remeron - 2004-2005 (bad withdrawal)

Clonazepam - 2005-2018 (jumped around March)

Olanzapine - 2014- late 2017

Domperidone - 2008-2018

Many drugs in between including Lexapro, other benzos and z-drugs.

Still suffering post-withdrawal from Clonazepam (Klonopin), Olanzapine and Domperidone. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi,

Some positive news I'm not having involuntary movements for a while now. Can't remember the last. I also tried to find anything on brain regrowth after AP damages but found nothing, guess that's since it's not popular to admit the prerequisite. But I found that anorexia patients have about a 6% loss of white and gray matter and that it regrew for them.

 

"We were able to confirm global and focal cerebral volume loss and reduction in cortical thick-ness. These changes, however, were reversible even after a long ill-ness duration, which should be encouraging for both therapists and patients."

https://sci-hub.st/10.1002/eat.22918

A week of oxazepam 10mg with 1 day of zopiclone 7.5mg and concurrent Zyprexa totalling: 10mg 25 days , 7.5mg 18 days, 5mg 14 days, 2.5mg 11 days,  10x0mg + 4x1mg. Very bad condition reinstated: zyprexa 7.5mg zopiclone 8.5mg, 25mg Propiomazine. Next day 5mg Z. Then 6 months taper to nothing but Zyprexa and 0.0mg again. 6 days 0mg. Reinstated 0.12mg x2 days. 23 june: 0.25mg. 29 june: 0.12mg. 8th and 9th july 2020 also tried 0.375mg Melatonin. 9 july 0.16mg. Made an error of judgement in august and was forced on various drugs in hospital mainly landing on: Abilify injections + pills for a daily total of 5-15 mg (for 2½ month) + zyprexa 3 days of 10mg mostly 2.5mg but started cheating. 14 oct 2020 only zyprexa and due to cheating earlier able to go 0.31mg! 30 oct 0.21mg, 13 nov 0.14mg, 28 nov 0.10mg, 14 dec 0.07mg, 04 jan 2021 0.035mg, 25 jan 0.017mg, 4 feb 2021 0.000 mg

 

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  • Moderator

That's great that's settling down for you Hopela.  Mine seems to settled a good bit too.

I am not a health professional - your actions are your own.  

Please do not seek tapering support via private message - "Any reason to hold is a good one"

My taper visualised as a graph   |   My intro thread

Backdrop:  2003 10mg olanzapine | 2004 2-3mg risperidone | end 2014 3wks aripiprazole

2015: olanzapine  10 -> 7½ -> 6⅔ -> 5mg  by crude pill cutter

2018:  Mar 5.00mg -> water titrated taper -> Aug2.5mg tablet and hold

Jan 2019 2.50mg water titration -> Jan 2020 1.214  -> Jan 2021 0.44 -> 2 Oct 0.205 ->3 Oct ZERO🥂

Jun 2023 💉150mg paliperidone "loading" depot shot, 100mg 1wk after Jul 100mg Aug-Dec 75mg/4wks

Jul 2023 2.50mg aripiprazole/day attempt to lower prolactin^

Jan-Feb 2024 cross taper off shots to 1mg risperidone

 

Ask not what you can do for your country, but what your country did to you"  -- KMFDM

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  • Moderator

That is terrific news, @Hopela. Hope you have continued success with healing. I will take a look at that study you linked. Looks very interesting. 

Remeron - 2004-2005 (bad withdrawal)

Clonazepam - 2005-2018 (jumped around March)

Olanzapine - 2014- late 2017

Domperidone - 2008-2018

Many drugs in between including Lexapro, other benzos and z-drugs.

Still suffering post-withdrawal from Clonazepam (Klonopin), Olanzapine and Domperidone. 

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Thanks @hayduke good to hear. Since posting I've become more aware of any movements and it seems I still occassionally have minor non recurring twitches, which doesn't bother much and is normal to have maybe at a lower frequency. Some weeks ago I now remember having semi-constant twitchy contractions under the left eye. That was the last bothersome one. Maybe people thought I was flirting intensively.

 

Thanks @DataGuy. I found it interesting that after acquiring normal weight it took 2-5 months for the anorexia patients to regain half of their lost brain matter and it took 2-8 years for the regrowth to level out. Those neurological time spans can be related to withdrawal. Hypothetically the brain is better at protecting itself during periods of starvation and recover, since it's been an evolutionary challenge as opposed to surviving neuroleptics, but it could be a matter of to what degree the starvation occurs, anorexia is quite severe, in the study they'd had it for around 7 years and BMI lowpoints at 14 on average (shockingly low if one calculates required weight for oneself), so I'm still hoping it has some relevance to antipsychotic brain recovery.

 

A week of oxazepam 10mg with 1 day of zopiclone 7.5mg and concurrent Zyprexa totalling: 10mg 25 days , 7.5mg 18 days, 5mg 14 days, 2.5mg 11 days,  10x0mg + 4x1mg. Very bad condition reinstated: zyprexa 7.5mg zopiclone 8.5mg, 25mg Propiomazine. Next day 5mg Z. Then 6 months taper to nothing but Zyprexa and 0.0mg again. 6 days 0mg. Reinstated 0.12mg x2 days. 23 june: 0.25mg. 29 june: 0.12mg. 8th and 9th july 2020 also tried 0.375mg Melatonin. 9 july 0.16mg. Made an error of judgement in august and was forced on various drugs in hospital mainly landing on: Abilify injections + pills for a daily total of 5-15 mg (for 2½ month) + zyprexa 3 days of 10mg mostly 2.5mg but started cheating. 14 oct 2020 only zyprexa and due to cheating earlier able to go 0.31mg! 30 oct 0.21mg, 13 nov 0.14mg, 28 nov 0.10mg, 14 dec 0.07mg, 04 jan 2021 0.035mg, 25 jan 0.017mg, 4 feb 2021 0.000 mg

 

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  • 3 weeks later...

It's been more than 6 months since coming off.

  • Sleep has returned. Maybe not 8 hours straight but can be 5...6 h + 1...2 h for example.
  • Occasional one off jerks that are not too problematic and somewhat similar to what non drugged people can have.
  • Lost 5kg and only carry about 3kg more than before drugging.
  • Did wake up with panic feeling in the middle of the night yesterday, long since, but was able to sleep again. Might be enhanced by prior Zyprexa exposure but also has natural causes in life situation and prior.
  • Feel like I'm about 5% weaker in the gym but able to do good workouts.

A week of oxazepam 10mg with 1 day of zopiclone 7.5mg and concurrent Zyprexa totalling: 10mg 25 days , 7.5mg 18 days, 5mg 14 days, 2.5mg 11 days,  10x0mg + 4x1mg. Very bad condition reinstated: zyprexa 7.5mg zopiclone 8.5mg, 25mg Propiomazine. Next day 5mg Z. Then 6 months taper to nothing but Zyprexa and 0.0mg again. 6 days 0mg. Reinstated 0.12mg x2 days. 23 june: 0.25mg. 29 june: 0.12mg. 8th and 9th july 2020 also tried 0.375mg Melatonin. 9 july 0.16mg. Made an error of judgement in august and was forced on various drugs in hospital mainly landing on: Abilify injections + pills for a daily total of 5-15 mg (for 2½ month) + zyprexa 3 days of 10mg mostly 2.5mg but started cheating. 14 oct 2020 only zyprexa and due to cheating earlier able to go 0.31mg! 30 oct 0.21mg, 13 nov 0.14mg, 28 nov 0.10mg, 14 dec 0.07mg, 04 jan 2021 0.035mg, 25 jan 0.017mg, 4 feb 2021 0.000 mg

 

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  • Around 5 brain zaps per day
  • A sense of being many years older
  • Though very lucky with these low levels of symptoms now

A week of oxazepam 10mg with 1 day of zopiclone 7.5mg and concurrent Zyprexa totalling: 10mg 25 days , 7.5mg 18 days, 5mg 14 days, 2.5mg 11 days,  10x0mg + 4x1mg. Very bad condition reinstated: zyprexa 7.5mg zopiclone 8.5mg, 25mg Propiomazine. Next day 5mg Z. Then 6 months taper to nothing but Zyprexa and 0.0mg again. 6 days 0mg. Reinstated 0.12mg x2 days. 23 june: 0.25mg. 29 june: 0.12mg. 8th and 9th july 2020 also tried 0.375mg Melatonin. 9 july 0.16mg. Made an error of judgement in august and was forced on various drugs in hospital mainly landing on: Abilify injections + pills for a daily total of 5-15 mg (for 2½ month) + zyprexa 3 days of 10mg mostly 2.5mg but started cheating. 14 oct 2020 only zyprexa and due to cheating earlier able to go 0.31mg! 30 oct 0.21mg, 13 nov 0.14mg, 28 nov 0.10mg, 14 dec 0.07mg, 04 jan 2021 0.035mg, 25 jan 0.017mg, 4 feb 2021 0.000 mg

 

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  • Moderator

Thanks @Hopela, I am glad you continue to update.

 

I feel quite a bit older too, on some days, although on others I feel pretty good. How long have you been experiencing 5 brain zaps per day?

 

After you posted that brain volume recovery study for anorexia, I went to try and find further studies, looking for brain volume recovery in both traumatic brain injury patients and - even better - alcohol-related brain injury patients, who I think would likely most approximate psych drug victims. However, no dice. I searched through dozens of studies on google scholar but didn't find anything. Seems this type of research is in its infancy. If there are any studies out there like this, they are sure difficult to find. I'm glad you came across the study you shared though. Very interesting!

Remeron - 2004-2005 (bad withdrawal)

Clonazepam - 2005-2018 (jumped around March)

Olanzapine - 2014- late 2017

Domperidone - 2008-2018

Many drugs in between including Lexapro, other benzos and z-drugs.

Still suffering post-withdrawal from Clonazepam (Klonopin), Olanzapine and Domperidone. 

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