emilie Posted August 8, 2020 Share Posted August 8, 2020 Hi, i know that it exist study with graphic on serotonin levels while using SSRI but i was wondering , like organism adapt to the use of antidepressant, if there was study with graphic or data numbers on brain serotonin levels and time after withdrawal. like this study that exist for ectasy (see below)... but i wonder if there was one for SSRI? https://web.archive.org/web/20070208030738/http://www.drugabuse.gov/pubs/teaching/teaching4/Teaching4.html « 7 years later there was some recovery, but it was not complete (in fact the pattern of regrowth of serotonin terminals was abnormal -- point out one of the areas where the pink lines are running sideways) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6782677/ the image https://web.archive.org/web/20070208035012/http://www.drugabuse.gov/pubs/teaching/teaching4/largegifs/slide17.gif (i am french) 1998 prazépam, citalopram /1999 paroxetine prazepam /2000 paroxétine /2001venafaxine, alprazolam, clomipramine * 2002 (dont remember)/2003 clomipramine, alprazolam /2004 clomipramine /2005 alprazolam /2006(dont remember) * 2007citalopram, alprazolam, prazépam, venlafaxine /2008(dont remember) /2009 venlafaxine /2010 venlafaxine *All precedent withdrawal were very fast. I tried many times to stop but didn't know what happened. *2011 mirtazapine (22,5 mg) , norset , risperdal (cold turkey for risperdal and norset, analysis by doctor say that my body does not support and i was in danger) /2012 mirtazapine / 2013 mirtazapine *october 2014 mirtazapine (15mg) - putting down slowly. *when i was good for one month i down 1ml. (1ml of 100ml of water in which there was 1 pill of 15mg of mirtazapine. At the end i remove 1ml of 50ml of water but with 0,5 pill it does the same concentration.) (i down more like "how i feel, because at the beginning i had a calendar tapping 10% every 15 days and i was really bad, so i decided to see one month and after if i was trust in my body, i remove 10% of the dose at the beginning; and at the end i remove 1ml (when the 10% was lower than 1ml). It was more how i feel. (it is just the last 1 ml that i remove rapidly because i think i was attached mentally and i need to break. and 1ml of 50ml of 15/2mg is just 1ml correspond to 0.15mg. ). -juillet 2017 stop all. nov 2017 tetany and gastritis. I found "euphytose", "spasmine", "phyto-stress" from Govital(the more efficient if crisis because more concentrated) efficient. If very bad i take valerian extract 1000mg (stop crisis). january 2022: I survive. Still having no hunger sensation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emilie Posted August 8, 2020 Author Share Posted August 8, 2020 hi, i wanted to share with you studies that i find interesting on depletion of monoamine by SSRI, how to avoid it, and a comparison on ectasy (that 7 years after use of MDMA or ecstasy (used twice a day during 4 days only), the serotonin level is not return to normal in monkey after 7 years. * "Monoamine depletion by reuptake inhibitors" https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3237392/#!po=1.16279 in this study, they give an example of SSRI function with a study on ectasy ref 35 i had search and find the reference here : -- https://web.archive.org/web/20070208030738/http://www.drugabuse.gov/pubs/teaching/teaching4/Teaching4.html « 7 years later there was some recovery, but it was not complete (in fact the pattern of regrowth of serotonin terminals was abnormal -- point out one of the areas where the pink lines are running sideways) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6782677/ the image https://web.archive.org/web/20070208035012/http://www.drugabuse.gov/pubs/teaching/teaching4/largegifs/slide17.gif --- * "Relative nutritional deficiencies associated with centrally acting monoamines" https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3355850/ *from the same autors. They have maid patent on the action to add monoamines supplement with the use of SSRI to avoid the depletion of monoamines. https://patents.google.com/patent/US20080241278A1/en?inventor=Martin+C.+Hinz the link to see the patent https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/5e/9f/11/0491d5887dd5b8/US20080241278A1.pdf he has maid many patent very interesting all based on the same problem of monoamine depletion using SSRI.(https://patents.google.com/?inventor=Martin+C.+Hinz) . perhaps it could interest some peoples. (i am french) 1998 prazépam, citalopram /1999 paroxetine prazepam /2000 paroxétine /2001venafaxine, alprazolam, clomipramine * 2002 (dont remember)/2003 clomipramine, alprazolam /2004 clomipramine /2005 alprazolam /2006(dont remember) * 2007citalopram, alprazolam, prazépam, venlafaxine /2008(dont remember) /2009 venlafaxine /2010 venlafaxine *All precedent withdrawal were very fast. I tried many times to stop but didn't know what happened. *2011 mirtazapine (22,5 mg) , norset , risperdal (cold turkey for risperdal and norset, analysis by doctor say that my body does not support and i was in danger) /2012 mirtazapine / 2013 mirtazapine *october 2014 mirtazapine (15mg) - putting down slowly. *when i was good for one month i down 1ml. (1ml of 100ml of water in which there was 1 pill of 15mg of mirtazapine. At the end i remove 1ml of 50ml of water but with 0,5 pill it does the same concentration.) (i down more like "how i feel, because at the beginning i had a calendar tapping 10% every 15 days and i was really bad, so i decided to see one month and after if i was trust in my body, i remove 10% of the dose at the beginning; and at the end i remove 1ml (when the 10% was lower than 1ml). It was more how i feel. (it is just the last 1 ml that i remove rapidly because i think i was attached mentally and i need to break. and 1ml of 50ml of 15/2mg is just 1ml correspond to 0.15mg. ). -juillet 2017 stop all. nov 2017 tetany and gastritis. I found "euphytose", "spasmine", "phyto-stress" from Govital(the more efficient if crisis because more concentrated) efficient. If very bad i take valerian extract 1000mg (stop crisis). january 2022: I survive. Still having no hunger sensation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay78 Posted August 9, 2020 Share Posted August 9, 2020 I was given a Reversible Inhibitor of Monoamine oxidase-A (RIMA) drug called aurorix, at very high dosages after being on 80mg and 450mg seropram and effexor, and it was like darkness had seized me, I could barely move around and when I closed my eyes, for a lack of a better way of describing this, pitch darkness conquered me, I could actually barely talk while on it. I might be completely wrong, but could it be that depletion of monoamines had such strong negative effects with aurorix following long term (2 year) treatment with high dosages of ssris. I hope this might warn some people who may come across a stupid madman of a shrink to give a mao antidepressant after an SSRI. Feb 2015 Invega 9mg tapered to zero over 6 month, Levomepromazine 25mg for 3 months, Citalopram raised from 20mg to 80mg over 3 months, at 80mg for 1 year and 5 months, Venlaxafine raised from 150mg to 450mg over 3 months (after citalopram) maintained for 1 year and 2 months. Cold turkey off both. Two shots of haldol decanoate. Alprazolam from 0.5 to 7(!) mg due to the immense stress of the ads. Down to 2.5mg October 2017 Occtober 2017 - Dec 2017 Moclobemide raised from 200mg to 800mg during a month and half discontinued with no tapering. Jan 2017 Feb 2017Fluvoxamine and Venlaxafine 300mg and 450mg, abrupt start, no tapering in discontinuation. 30mg Mirtazapin at night. Close to two months off antidepressants but on benzos. 6 months on 2.5mg alprazolam, Diazepam 5mg for 1.5 months. Currently on 600mg peronten, 400mg seroquel xr, Risperdal Consta 50mg. In the past 8 months dropped quitapine from 400 -> 300->200->100->75->50->25. Dropped paliperidone palmitate 100 to 75mg (two months on the lower dosage) Dropped Gabapentin 300mg->200mg->100mg->0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnysideup69 Posted August 9, 2020 Share Posted August 9, 2020 Very interesting....will take a look, although I also kind of don't want to.....used a lot of recreational drugs in the late 90s early 00s. I stopped in 2002. Made the decision not to do it any more. Then in 2003, had my first 'anxiety/depression' bout. (Provoked by a night of heavy drinking at a New Year party.) Now, it seems obvious to me that was an alcohol provoked wave and that my poor brain and CNS were trying to heal. Then hopped onto antidepressants in 2008, after a few more alcohol-provoked waves. It's fascinating being able to connect the dots now.....but sheesh, my brain has a lot of healing to do. January 2008 to April 2015 Citalopram 20mg to 5mg, reducing in 50 per cent leaps. Jumped off at 5mg March 2016 used MDMA triggered setback April 2016 Citalopram 10mg October 2016 cut to 5mg, May 2017 cut to 2.5mg May 2018 used MDMA triggered setback June 2018 Citalopram 2.5mg up to 10mg, then back to 5mg July/ August 2018 7.5mg, then 10mg June 2019 updosed to 20mg Citalopram August 2019 cold switch to Venlafaxine 75mg XR Supplements; 1100mg fish oil daily; also 100mg Magnesium Glycinate. Tried Vagifem 10mcg from mid May 2021 to mid June 2021; caused depression, so stopped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PerAsperaAdAstra Posted August 9, 2020 Share Posted August 9, 2020 Thanks for reporting this! I’ve been a heavy MDMA user for 2 or 3 years, and in me it also provoked intense panic and anxiety combined with ruthless depression. Also the reason I felt that it was absolutely necessary to start using antidepressants at that time. Good to hear I’m not the only one. 1 Antidepressant history 2001 - 2018: Paxil / seroxat (20 mgs), several failed c/t and taper attempts. 2018-September: last failed c/t attempt. 2018-October: reinstated Paxil (30 mgs) 2018-October thru 2019-January: Short-term Oxazepam & Diazepam use. Tapered off very slowly. Jumped 10Jan2019. Brassmonkey Slide Method stats Currently on hold on 0,1 mgpw after an updose due to becoming increasingly unstable. Supplements: C, D, Magnesium Miscellaneous: low on alcohol (1/2 times/year). No substance abuse. Lower carb diet with cheat days. Wim Hof Method. Buteyko. Calisthenics. Hiking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnysideup69 Posted August 9, 2020 Share Posted August 9, 2020 37 minutes ago, PerAsperaAdAstra said: Thanks for reporting this! I’ve been a heavy MDMA user for 2 or 3 years, and in me it also provoked intense panic and anxiety combined with ruthless depression. Also the reason I felt that it was absolutely necessary to start using antidepressants at that time. Good to hear I’m not the only one. You're not the only one...I'm guessing there are probably quite a few of us out there in antidepressant land. Sadly, although fun at the time, MDMA really messes up neurotransmitters. 1 January 2008 to April 2015 Citalopram 20mg to 5mg, reducing in 50 per cent leaps. Jumped off at 5mg March 2016 used MDMA triggered setback April 2016 Citalopram 10mg October 2016 cut to 5mg, May 2017 cut to 2.5mg May 2018 used MDMA triggered setback June 2018 Citalopram 2.5mg up to 10mg, then back to 5mg July/ August 2018 7.5mg, then 10mg June 2019 updosed to 20mg Citalopram August 2019 cold switch to Venlafaxine 75mg XR Supplements; 1100mg fish oil daily; also 100mg Magnesium Glycinate. Tried Vagifem 10mcg from mid May 2021 to mid June 2021; caused depression, so stopped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PerAsperaAdAstra Posted August 9, 2020 Share Posted August 9, 2020 47 minutes ago, sunnysideup69 said: You're not the only one...I'm guessing there are probably quite a few of us out there in antidepressant land. Sadly, although fun at the time, MDMA really messes up neurotransmitters. Had I known what I know now I would have been somewhat less heavy on the MDMA. I mean, using it frequently once or more each month, sometimes 4+ in one sitting to the extent I didn't feel anything anymore. That must have done a lot of damage. ;-). In daily life I haven't come across someone in the same boat, so I'm really happy with a place like this. 1 Antidepressant history 2001 - 2018: Paxil / seroxat (20 mgs), several failed c/t and taper attempts. 2018-September: last failed c/t attempt. 2018-October: reinstated Paxil (30 mgs) 2018-October thru 2019-January: Short-term Oxazepam & Diazepam use. Tapered off very slowly. Jumped 10Jan2019. Brassmonkey Slide Method stats Currently on hold on 0,1 mgpw after an updose due to becoming increasingly unstable. Supplements: C, D, Magnesium Miscellaneous: low on alcohol (1/2 times/year). No substance abuse. Lower carb diet with cheat days. Wim Hof Method. Buteyko. Calisthenics. Hiking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Altostrata Posted August 10, 2020 Administrator Share Posted August 10, 2020 @emilie your topic has been moved here. This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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