Fightinghard: overcoming

[mstimc]

No problem!  Yes, having recognizable windows is a great sign! 

[Fightinghard]

Hello-  So last night was a tough night.  I think I overdid things yesterday.  During my normal walk i decided to jog very lightly for 5 minutes.  It felt good at the time.  I also did Wim How breathing and cold shower yesterday.  So between the very light jog and the breathing/showers I introduced 3 things new.  I also had my DBT appointment yesterday and spoke to my parents (can trigger) in the evening. Anyway, I was more depressed and ‘doom and gloom’ last night.  I actually fell asleep early; around 9:45 and woke up around 11:30 feeling down and concerned.  Can I maintain my job?  My kids, wife?  I took a melatonin (I hadn’t used it last night) and probably around 12:45 was back to sleep. I awoke at 5:30.  So cumulative I slept around 6ish hours.  Not bad for me.  I just feel off.  I’ve read that depending when you sleep at night dictates some of the type of sleep.  I’m guessing I had more REM since I had more dreams.  Good thing was no nightmares.  I hadn’t had much sleep during this timeframe so I’m actually thinking I had a kind of “REM rebound’ since I’ve been lacking but who knows.  

 

I’m reaching out though because in my depressed mindset (which I didn’t have yesterday morning) I was thinking maybe I should reinstate.  Let me preface this by saying I realize no one knows what will happen. That said, my symptoms were not bad the past week or so with some periodic anxiety, mild depression and my sleep issues.  My brain can’t handle a ton of stress.  My other issue is I’m so focused on getting better that it’s obsessive which i can be.  I’m much less functional right now. Motivation is low, not eating as much and generally tired.  I really can’t tell what’s withdrawal and what’s me, etc.  When I was on the medications, knowing what I know now, I truly believe I was never ‘stable’.  Between the cocktail of meds and timing of changes I really never had much time with a stable dosage.  I told my wife the other day, I think I’ve been in withdrawal since the end of May but I didn’t know it.  As I got further down into my ‘taper’ I was a little better with sleep. I didn’t feel ‘normal’ but I was a little bit better.  I believe firmly that the Lex is at the heart of the sleep issues I have (my pattern of 4-5 then awake started with the lex).  So if I reinstate at a very low dose, that could theoretically calm things down? In the grand scheme of things, I’m just not sure what to do.  Take more Lex than may or may not help and considering I was great on it is it worth it?  But I never was really stable on it either.  so maybe things would have been a little better had I stayed put for a while.  

 

This is not in my signature and I don’t think I can fit in. I’m not sure why I didn’t include this earlier; it hadn’t crossed my mind when I started here.  But last night I was thinking I better add it for a clear history:

 

2003-2006 ( I can’t tell you exact dates and dosages because I don’t remember) I was treated for ADD.  I took Zoloft (I’m guessing a year or so?) then switched to Wellbutrin.  I don’t remember tapers but not sure.  I doubt it was done correctly though.  I was also on Ritalin, Concerta and Adderall for periods of time.  I don’t remember tapering or how I stopped.  I don’t remember if I had WD but probably did. 

 

Thanks for any thought on this!  

 

 

[mstimc]

Hi Fighting

 

Reinstatement isn't my area of expersits, but its always a gamble.  I did it twice before finally getting my taper right, and at best it made me feel okay, but not "normal" ; just stable enough to restart a taper.  If you're in the middle of a negative thinking  wave, now may not be the time to make that decision.  Maybe you should give yourself a chance and use some coping techniques and see if you can manage the symptoms that way.  

[Fightinghard]

Thanks @mstimc!  I won’t make a rash decision and reinstate.  Truly I’ve come far and I think I’ve been fortunate up to this point in that I’ve not had consistent horrible symptoms. My sleep is probably the hardest.  I was feeling overwhelmed and depressed last night and also this morning. I’m getting better as the day goes on. I think the emotions of talking to my parents and doing therapy in one evening plus the physical thins like light running and Wim Hof breathing triggered me. I’ll ride it out but I want to make sure I have the best information on what it can be to reinstate. Hearing you say it wasn’t back to normal is helpful.

[Fightinghard]

I’m still learning how to manage this site!  Not sure why I posted the previous thing but... I’m 8 weeks off lexapro today. About 14 weeks off buspirone.  I feel fortunate that my symptons seem to be diminishing  somewhat. Currently sleep disturbances are still happening. I’d actually say this may be worse. I now sleep on and off throughout the night without that one good 4-5 stretch.  At least for the last few days it’s been that way. I did try theanine one night which seemed to help some but I’m hesitant to mess too much with my bodies natural healing progression. My belief is this change in pattern is part of my brain healing. My thought is my body is trying to regulate my cortisol throughout the night and it’s currently overshooting it. It will find its way.
 

current symptoms:

sleep disturbances (seem worse than a week ago)

anxiety (mornings and evenings but seems better)

frequent urination (fairly new)

very hungry

sensitive to stresses

depression ( mild when I have some)

Back pain (seems to be less and less) 

 

Outside of my sleep and some minor anxiety, the past 2 days were pretty good. I was driving and I actually was listening to music and singing!  Normally that’s been a little too much to handle.  For about 15 minutes last night I wanted to watch tv (haven’t felt that in awhile). I also joked with my son in a way I haven’t since this started. I think I’ve been in a window For a few days.  Even this morning, I had some anxiety but not horrible and I’ve hardly slept. If I wasn’t ‘wired and tired’ I’d be ok this morning. I’m feeling closer to normal in many ways. I realize things can change so I’m trying to be smart about it.  I’m trying to enjoy the normalcy though. 
 

I’m continuing my DBT weekly which I think helps and I’m also working hard with mindfulness.  These both seem to be key for me. Truly the one thing I’m missing most is exercise. I do walk regularly but the intense aerobic and full body workouts were my coping mechanism for stress.  My plan is each week to do a light jog a little bit further. Last week was about 8 minutes. I don’t think it was a problem so this week I’ll go to 10 minutes. If there’s an issue I back off. I kind of believe that my CNS needs to relearn how to respond to many things. The only way to teach it is to expose it. I’m not saying go all out but I’m thinking just exposing it to different things within reason and comfort. 
 

I’m going to continue to work hard and stay positive.  I’ve really learned so much about myself and my values these past 5 months that I can’t wait for things to get better. Until then I need to stay in the present, accept where I am and be thankful for any small victories. I will heal with time. 

One question I’ve had that I’m looking for thoughts on is in the evenings I get into a mode where I can’t sit still very long. I just want to do things. It seems to be lessening some but I just don’t like to sit. I’m guessing this is cortisol related?  Kind of like anxiety but I’m not sure. Probably 6-7 pm or so? 
 

 

 

 

 

[mstimc]

3 hours ago, Fightinghard said:

One question I’ve had that I’m looking for thoughts on is in the evenings I get into a mode where I can’t sit still very long. I just want to do things. It seems to be lessening some but I just don’t like to sit. I’m guessing this is cortisol related?  Kind of like anxiety but I’m not sure. Probably 6-7 pm or so? 

Hi Fighting

 

This is known as “sundowner syndrome” and is pretty common among people with anxiety, especially those over 50 (none of my business how old you are).  Theory is it’s linked to hormonal changes linked to our body clocks.  I used to get it and burned off the energy either on our treadmill or by cleaning the kitchen (useful for scoring points with my wife, too!)😄

[Fightinghard]

Interesting. I’ve heard of sundowners syndrome but didn’t associate it. I’m 47 so pretty close to 50!  Is this WD related?  It does seem a little better. It started back in April/May when I started the meds. 

[mstimc]

Yeah, I’m betting it’s related to WD in your case and should fade as you recover.

[Fightinghard]

As always, thanks for the response. This whole WD process is really incredible.  Having some guidance and reassurance along the way is helpful. I can’t believe it’s 8 weeks since I’ve stopped lexapro. I guess it’s a short time in the grand scheme of things. Considering I was only on it 11 weeks I’m hoping things continue to level off. I think if my sleep improved the other symptoms would really be manageable. One day at a time. 

[Fightinghard]

Last night I finally had a decent night sleep!  I had been awhile!  I had a 5:15 stretch which is the longest in month!  I also fell back asleep maybe an hour later for another 2:30!   Normally I’m full of anxiety in the morning. Today was more of a slight depressed.  I believe my brain is learning how to react to more sleep.  My cortisol is obviously lower so maybe now serotonin or dopamine or who knows what are off but my body will learn!  That all said, I realize its one night but for me it proves I can sleep and my body is healing. I had been hypothesizing my body was Learning how to sleep longer which was why my pattern changed. I will continue to be gentle with myself today and not overdue it.  One day at a time.  

[mstimc]

1 hour ago, Fightinghard said:

That all said, I realize its one night but for me it proves I can sleep and my body is healing.

 

This is a very empowering lesson to learn, Fighting.  My first window was brief, but it proved I could heal and recover.  I hung onto that so often during a wave.  You are taking the right approach with a great attitude!

[Fightinghard]

@mstimc It’s such a relief to have ‘windows’. I’ve had a few the past few weeks and I was telling my wife I’m not sure how to act or feel?  I don’t want to overdue it but I also feel good so I want to enjoy the moment. Like you said, it will help me through my waves. 
 

I still can’t watch a movie at night or do too much heavy thinking but I’m making progress!  I believe I‘ll be a little better each week and month. Thanks again for your support! 

[mstimc]

You'll feel more comfortable with "normal" feelings as you recover.  So glad to hear you're able to enjoy the moment!

[Fightinghard]

Last night was probably the worst night I’ve had!  What a contrast. I think I did too much yesterday and ended up in a wave. Overall I felt pretty good until later in the day when depression was setting in. Yesterday I helped my neighbor move which was loading a truck in the heat. Then in the early evening I took my family to top golf for a few hours. I guess it was too much.  I think the emotions of my neighbor moving plus all the activity was too much. My wife also seems down which is worrying me. Many of my emotions from pre lexapro seem to be coming out and I think they’re more intense. Anyway, I went from a great night Friday to a bad night Saturday fast. I think I probably had about 3 hours sleep? If that?  I just couldn’t fall asleep. I’m going to have to make the best of today but be gentle to myself. I have to assume this is a wave but with real feelings. This morning I’m a little down with some anxiety but not overwhelming. I have to focus on my good window as a reminder of what can be.  
 

I’m currently doing therapy to manage emotions. Is it common for the old(pre SSRI) emotions to return only more intense?  

[mstimc]

Hi Fighting.  Yes, its very common.  When I was in WD I blew every perceived mistake totally out of proportion.  At work, I thought I was going to get fired every day.  And I was especially sensitive to life situations and other people's moods.  I remember tearing up at a scene from CSI: New York which would have never affected me otherwise.  I was always concerned my wife or someone else was mad or sad because of something I did or said, when in fact there was never an issue.  

 

Its the nature of the windows and waves recovery pattern that you'll have great days followed by not so great ones.  Looking at it from here, your ability and willingness to push yourself a little is great and will help you recover sooner rather than later.  Just cut yourself some slack when you're doing so well and know the next day may be better.

[Fightinghard]

@mstimc I honestly push myself for my wife and kids. Trying to be as normal as possible. My evening generally are very regimented. Probably around 8 or so I’ll start breathing and meditation for about 45 minutes. I sometime read a little. I try to spend time with my wife but at this point watching a movie or tv just seems like too much. I can’t sit and watch it. It wakes me up.  So I feel so bad that I’m not with my wife. She’s been a saint with all this. I was so depressed last night just thinking of all that she is going through. I need to support her. Sorry to ramble.  I’ll continue to push but be smart. I’ll let my nervous system relax today and hope my wave is short lived. 
 

I decided to use this forum like a journal to some degree. It is healing to write what your thinking. That said, I can’t obsess over the site but just occasionally check it. I will say I have less of a ‘ruminating’ feeling this morning. Usually I want to obsessively search the site for info based on what I’m going through. Today it’s more just for venting and support. I think that’s good?  I have to believe the more I think I’m in a wave the more I will be. 
 

Your support has been so helpful. I’m so thankful for this forum and for you. 

[ChessieCat]

10 minutes ago, Fightinghard said:

watching a movie or tv just seems like too much. I can’t sit and watch it. It wakes me up.

 

You could try wearing blue light glasses.

[ChessieCat]

11 minutes ago, Fightinghard said:

I decided to use this forum like a journal to some degree. It is healing to write what your thinking. That said, I can’t obsess over the site but just occasionally check it.

 

You might find it better to journal off the site.  I did some research about journalling.  Here is the link:

 

 

[Fightinghard]

It seems like the sound and content is too much. I’ll try tonight. Honestly I‘M think I’ve developed a fear of messing up my sleep which is my anxiety about watching a movie.  I have to reframe that and

 I’ll have to try. 

[Fightinghard]

@ChessieCat  I will look into that. I won’t use this site to journal ;  only when I need support. 

[ChessieCat]

16 minutes ago, Fightinghard said:

I won’t use this site to journal

 

We appreciate it is members can update there introduction topic every now and then even if you don't need support.

 

On 5/15/2011 at 5:22 AM, Altostrata said:

 

This site is also a research project. The personal stories on this site are documentation of an iatrogenic condition -- suffering caused by medical treatment -- that is almost always ignored, misdiagnosed, or denied by the medical establishment. Given the widespread prescription of antidepressants to tens of millions of people worldwide, withdrawal syndrome probably affects hundreds of thousands if not millions -- including newborns and children.

...

With our documentation of antidepressant withdrawal syndrome, we hope to educate the medical establishment about this problem. Case studies are essential; they are evidence understood by doctors, the psychiatric industry, and government regulatory agencies. The have already informed numerous articles in major publications and scientific papers.

Our hope is, eventually, antidepressants and other psychiatric drugs will be prescribed rarely, and only in cases of extremely severe mental illness after less invasive treatments have been tried.

 

 

[Fightinghard]

@mstimc In your experience during WD was it better to push yourself to do things or not?  The common theme is ‘be kind to yourself’ but I’m thinking how do you make progress if your brain isn’t exposed to things it needs to resolve?   Kind of like building a tolerance. But I don’t want to trigger waves either...I think there is a strong psychological component to WD. The symptoms are all real for sure but does mindset influence the course they take?  I’m thinking if I sit back and dwell on my situation it only makes things worse.   It’s a fine line. 
 

I continue to get waves/windows.  I think I’m making progress. I’ve slept decent 2 of the last 4 nights while remaining somewhat busy and active. I’m 8 weeks in. Compared to week one my symptoms are generally less overall and most are less severe. I’m hoping my sleep is slowly turning the corner.  One day at a time. 
 

Thanks for any insight!

 

[mstimc]

Hi Fighting.  You can do both; push yourself and be kind.  Try by doing things you know you’ll enjoy but will take a little effort.  I love woodworking, but when I was in WD it was really hard for me to work up the energy to set up my tools and concentrate on the work.  Once I decided to just do it anyway, I felt much more positive about it and myself.  That will make it much easier to deal with more challenging situations in the future.  Positive activity will create more positive thinking, kind of like “If I can do “x” I can do”y”. Remember, this isn’t a race. Move at a pace that supports your recovery without leading to a backlash.

[Fightinghard]

Thanks.  That makes sense. I still struggle with windows where I think I’m ‘better’ so I push myself and I think it sometimes sets me into a wave. I am noticing my brain isn’t ‘fatiguing’ as much. 
 

 

[mstimc]

As long as you can see it as just a temporary wave, you're in great shape! 

[Fightinghard]

I think my sleep is starting to improve. I was sleeping about 4-5 hours and occasionally fall back asleep for a few more hours. Now this week I’m getting more like 5-6 hours and occasionally falling back to sleep. I haven’t had the 2am wake ups lately.  Now it’s about 3:30-4:00 when I wake from what I’d guess is the Morning cortisol spike.  I have had a few ‘bad nights’ but they can usually be attributed to a trigger of some type. I’m  also noticing less severe anxiety when I do awake. I’ve typically been very anxious but now it’s more depressed but I think it’s manageable. I’m trying to float with all neuroemotions and just observe them. 
 

I think yesterday  was a window for me. I started doing things I enjoyed (I love Fantasy football so I was preparing) and didn’t obsess over my withdrawal. I also notice I can tolerate more work stress than I have.  All positives for me.  
 

Some symptoms that continue are  my memory is not great and I have low motivation/energy with some depression.    Occasional back pain and I’ve had some frequent urination at night but only with bad nights.  I seem to be very hungry these days which considering I lost 20 pounds probably isn’t a problem.  Tomorrow makes 9 weeks since I stopped lexapro. I’m still far from normal but I’m seeing some improvements.  One day at a time. 

 

 

[Fightinghard]

@mstimc So I’m in a bad emotional wave. Not sure really how to describe it-depression, fear, hopeless, anxietyand just bad. My sleep was broken most of the night.  I had DBT therapy yesterday late afternoon and it seems like it may have triggered me? We were diving into some resentment, etc. I know you mentioned how critical CBT was for you. Have you had this happen?  It makes sense that I’ve exposed some emotions and now my brain has to adjust. At least that’s my interpretation. 

[ChessieCat]

16 minutes ago, Fightinghard said:

I had DBT therapy yesterday late afternoon and it seems like it may have triggered me? We were diving into some resentment, etc.

 

  

On 8/22/2016 at 12:08 PM, scallywag said:

 

Do not start tapering if …

 

Our experience is that certain personal situations destabilize your CNS (central nervous system). Reducing dosage of neuroactive drugs when these destabilizing conditions exist will likely make a difficult situation even worse.

We strongly urge that you NOT START tapering or that you HOLD AT CURRENT DOSE if you

 

• reside in a violent, abusive, or traumatic living situation
   
• struggle to make decisions for yourself and stick to them
   
• are in a crisis situation which needs face-to-face support and assistance
   
• have health anxiety, i.e. experiencing a symptom (or learning of the possibility of it) affects your ability to take effective action
   
• start or already participate in intense emotional therapy for previous traumatic events

 

In destabilizing situations such as these, you are better off to deal with and resolve the situation with stable medication levels. Tapering will always be an option. It's not "never taper", more of "now isn't the right time to taper."

 

Please note that this site is for tapering and withdrawal syndrome. We cannot offer counseling for these stressful life situations and we are not staffed for crisis counseling.

 

We urge you to seek face-to-face help rather than on this online forum for these situations.

 

 

Edited September 4, 2020 by ChessieCat

[ChessieCat]

are-we-there-yet-how-long-is-withdrawal-going-to-take

 

[Fightinghard]

@ChessieCat thank you for the information!  I’m a little better this AM but still off. I’ve been in therapy prior to my WD but we just started deeper issues yesterday. I’ll back off some of this therapy or do it earlier in the day. 

[mstimc]

Hi Fighting

 

Been out most of the day and just saw this.  Chessie posted good information.  Speaking personally,  yes, there were times when CBT and other therapy triggered some deep emotional scars.  I think these need to be confronted before we can heal; otherwise we'll wind up back where we were before meds.  Hang in there!

[Fightinghard]

@mstimc  No problems!  Thanks for the feeds back. I’m definitely working hard on the deep rooted issues. They’re coming out but with a much higher intensity than prior to AD. I will continue to work on them but maybe be more aware of the consequences.  Last night was probably my worst wave since early on. Today has been a nice window. I was back to my old self....it’s really amazing. I do have to say I think pushing my self to work more has been a plus.  It keeps occupied.  
 

Thanks again!

 

Craig

[mstimc]

We're a lot more resilient than we think we are, (or that our anxiety wants us to be).  Sounds like you're weathering the waves really well!

[Fightinghard]

When the waves hit I’m using your advice and reflect on my windows knowing I’m healing.  I’m also just accepting the feelings and symptoms while trying to continue my life. It’s easier said than done but I’m convinced now I’ll heal. I don’t know when but I know I will. I tell myself the waves are just my brain recalibrating which is good even though it doesn’t feel that way. My theory going into this WD was I would be done in 3months because I was only on it for  3 months. I have 3 more weeks!  (Wishful thinking). 
 

thanks again for your support. 

[mstimc]

I took Paxil for about seven years and it took me three years to come off and recover.  Based on your progress and positive approach, I think you're well on your way! 👍

[Fightinghard]

So I’ve been in a wave the past day or so. Or at least I think it’s a wave.  The effects of the pandemic are hitting me harder right now.  Feeling isolated, etc. I’m facing my previous emotions that I had prior to lexapro/pandemic.  I think I’m in a wave with neuroemotions about previous feelings and problems.  I’m facing them with Therapy and acceptance.  There is a part of me wondering is this WD or is it just me and my emotions?  I reflect on Friday night where I know I was in a window. I felt great like I was almost normal. Confident about my career and family. I know I can be there again and continue to heal. My sleep is still off with waking up several times and tough time falling back to sleep ; with these feelings it’s hard. I’m having more anxiety the past few days versus the depression I felt earlier last week. I’m hoping this wave will pass soon but I will work on therapy and reframing.