Fightinghard: overcoming

[mstimc]

Hi Fighting.  It could be a combination of WD and recovered emotions.   The good news is CBT will help you with both as long as you maintain the right approach, and it sounds like you are.  And remember, even "normal" people have ups and downs, especially these days.  You never know when you'll hit a new window, and it'll be better than the one before.

[Fightinghard]

I know I had these emotions before. To be blunt most of my anxieties prior to Covid  were focused on my current WD anxiety.  They just seem worse.  I was not mentally present with my relationship with my family prior to this.  I was always anxious when I’d be home feeling like I was missing out or something. With WD, these anxieties are stronger and different. I’m trying to work through them but I’m realizing I can’t Completely heal until I address them.  I think my WD is subsiding as a whole.  My sleep is still an issue with some cortisol spikes, etc but it was getting a little better until the past 2 nights.  I think I triggered myself emotionally yesterday.  This is tough but it’s all worth it.  Whether it’s all WD or a combination the emotions need to be addressed.  It’s really hard but I’m not the first to go through this.  I have to stay focused on healing.  I have been pushing myself more and more in terms of staying active.  Walks, bike rides and chores in general.   I’m trying to spend time with my kids and family. Generally my tolerance has been better meaning I can sit and talk and focus on them more.  It’s better than earlier in WD when I just felt I couldn’t focus because of the discomfort from anxiety.  A part of me wants to slow down some but then I’m home alone without much to do and that triggers anxiety.  So hard but it will get better.  Time heals WD as it does my previous anxieties with the help of therapy.  
 

I really appreciate the support. 

[mstimc]

3 minutes ago, Fightinghard said:

With WD, these anxieties are stronger and different. I’m trying to work through them but I’m realizing I can’t Completely heal until I address them.  I

 

This is so important, Fighting!  I posted in the Symptoms and Self-Care forum on the need to address the root cause of our anxiety and depression--the things that caused us to go on meds in the first place.  I, too, made it a point to spend time with our young son during my WD.  It took my mind off myself for awhile and I knew I had to be there for him (he was a 'tween at the time).  As you said, staying focused on healing instead of "what's wrong with me now?" is the best path to recovery and managing symptoms long-term.

 

[Fightinghard]

I’m hanging in there.  My anxiety has been worse he past few days and in general I think my cortisol levels are up.  I was able to nap briefly on Saturday as I did feel pretty calm.  That was the first time in a long time I felt I could truly nap.  Anyway, my insomnia is hanging on strong. I thought I was improving last week, where I had a few longer stretches of sleep and some other nights where I fell back to sleep.  The past 5 nights it’s been rough.  Sleep 3-4 hours and wake up then sleep 1-2 hours and up at 4 am or so.  Can’t fall asleep again-typically.  Is it typical that sleep gets worse than better than worse, etc until it settles down?  I will say I’ve been more in a wave over the weekend than window.  Friday night was a great window.  I think I’ve been in a wave since. The positives are I know I can sleep better because I have even during WD.  I’m back to work today which I think is actually helpful. The focus on work keeps my mind busy and off sleep and WD.  

[ChessieCat]

1 minute ago, Fightinghard said:

Is it typical that sleep gets worse than better than worse, etc until it settles down?

 

tips-to-help-sleep-so-many-of-us-have-that-awful-withdrawal-insomnia

 

Like any withdrawal symptom it can happen in a windows and waves pattern.

 

[mstimc]

Hi Fighting.

 

As Chessie said, sleep can improve and then get worse and then better again during recovery.  Its especially sensitive to changes in your anxiety level, so If you're feeling more anxious, its very likely that would be reflected in your sleep patterns.  Your best bet is to try not to obsess on your sleeping pattern; the more you worry about it, the more tense you'll become and the harder it will be to fall asleep.   When I get hot with insomnia or irregular sleep, I try to play mind games that take me out of the sleep-worry cycle.  It sounds silly, but one thing that works for me is to think about the characters in a favorite movie and then try to spell words using only their first and last initials. I start concentrating  on new words and the next thing I know I'm waking up in the morning!

[Fightinghard]

@ChessieCat  thank you!  

[Fightinghard]

@mstimc  Logically, it makes sense that it will be an up and down process.  Reality is even before SSRI I’d have ups and downs like everyone.  This weekend was very emotional with exploring past feeling and anxieties.  It kind of makes sense I’d be in a wave the past week with my kids back to school and my own life stresses.  
 

I’ll try a similar mind game. It makes sense to change my focus in those anxiety moments.  I keep reminding myself it’s only been about 9 weeks... I do believe for me a moderate work schedule will be helpful to change my daily focus on WD. While there is no doubt WD is very real I do believe there is a psychosomatic component to it in that the more you focus on it the worse it will be.  Again, not downplaying how hard or real it is.  
 

thanks again!  Hopefully I’ll be posting about a window of some type soon. Maybe I’ll be complaining about oversleeping soon!  Lol!

[mstimc]

7 minutes ago, Fightinghard said:

I do believe for me a moderate work schedule will be helpful to change my daily focus on WD. While there is no doubt WD is very real I do believe there is a psychosomatic component to it in that the more you focus on it the worse it will be.

This is a great insight, Fighting!  I found work helped take the focus off of myself and my recurrent thoughts.  The anxiety created by WD wants to be the sole center of attention, and loses its power if you focus on something else.  That's why its often so difficult to break the negative thought chain--part of your brain insists its the most important thing while the other, logical part wants to move on.  It looks like you know the difference between the two, and that's a huge advantage! 

[Fightinghard]

It just seems logical that if we continue to feed it, it will grow.  Again, not that it’s not real and unbearable for everyone, but when you can focus elsewhere it has to help.  WD will be what it will be but if we fuel it is it worse?  
 

Are you familiar with Dr Sarno and his beliefs?  If not, look him up.  You may find it interesting.  I know he’s been brought up on this forum and not necessarily well received and I understand why.  He’s deceased now but he was a Dr out of NYU that found back pain to be primarily psychosomatic.  Cured many people with just talking.  He later applied it to many other issues like fibromyalgia, ulcers, etc.  very interesting.  
 

thanks again!

[mstimc]

Thanks--I'll check out Dr. Sarno!

[Fightinghard]

@Gridley   @Altostrata  Hey Guys-  I’ve been at this now for 9.5 weeks.  Not a long time in the grand scheme of WD. I’m contemplating reinstatement but I’m really torn. Since I started lexapro I really was never ‘stable’. I never felt great and my sleep was impacted. I guess I was also on buspar and my dosages of lexapro changed throughout which contributed to my bad feelings. When I look back, the most stable environment for my brain has been since I stopped on July 4.  I read the reinstatement information and it makes sense. Currently, my symptoms are anxiety/cortisol spikes, depression at times, insomnia, intrusive thoughts, always hungry.  I’ve had windows and waves. I’m currently in a wave and things are worse. Unfortunately I’m busy with work and kids which I’m sure trigger things. Now to my question; if I was never feeling good on lexapro does it make sense to consider reinstatement?  My symptoms currently are tolerable but very difficult with the sleep issues and cortisol. I had virtually the same pattern while on lexapro;  cortisol/anxiety in the evening and early morning wake ups. Could it have been an adverse reaction?  Sorry to ramble.  I know my time is ticking on reinstatement.  I know you can’t tell me if reinstatement will work but I’m wondering if it’s more risky based on my experience while on lexapro?  

[Gridley]

12 minutes ago, Fightinghard said:

 My symptoms currently are tolerable but very difficult with the sleep issues and cortisol. I had virtually the same pattern while on lexapro;  cortisol/anxiety in the evening and early morning wake ups.

Based on your description of your current symptoms and your similar pattern while on Lexapro, I would advise you not to reinstate.  The purpose of reinstatement isn't to eliminate WD symptoms but rather to make them tolerable.  You're already there.  I wouldn't tinker.

[Fightinghard]

Thanks Gridley!  I think I’m reaching for feeling ‘good’ versus tolerable but I guess time and diet are my only options for that. Its definitely a fight each day but it is what it is. 

[Altostrata]

10 hours ago, Fightinghard said:

f I was never feeling good on lexapro does it make sense to consider reinstatement?  My symptoms currently are tolerable but very difficult with the sleep issues and cortisol. I had virtually the same pattern while on lexapro;  cortisol/anxiety in the evening and early morning wake ups.

 

When you first took Lexapro, how did it feel?

 

The symptoms you describe are an adverse reaction to a dosage of Lexapro that's too high.

 

How has your symptom pattern changed in the last month?

[Fightinghard]

@Altostrata  It’s hard to say definitively how I felt from lexapro since I started Buspirone the same time. That said, I remember just being uncomfortable. Extreme anxiety in the evening.  Tight chest. Poor sleep if any even with trazadone and ambien. I was on 5mg for 10 days then upped to 10mg. The entire month of May I had that chest tightness, blunted feelings, doom and gloom feeling and the sleep pattern of sleep 4-5 hours and wake up and then not know if I slept or not the rest of the night.  
 

my symptoms the past month have improved slightly even though I’m currently in a wave. Sleep was improving but now it’s back to 4-5 hours then awake with minimal sleep after. I have anxiety, some depression at times.  I can’t tolerate movies or loud things. Hungry all the time. Morning cortisol spikes.  But I’d say compared to a month ago some things have improved. Minimally but better.  No more brain fog, a little less emotional, I can handle more complex tasks. 
 

Im doing this on my phone so I apologize.  Thanks for your thoughts!  

[Fightinghard]

I know windows and waves are the normal process.  I think I’ve been in more of a wave pattern lately so it’s been harder.   My sleep is getting worse the past week and I feel higher cortisol levels in general.   I’ve been more active lately because of work and just life. I’m wondering if I need to back off some and slow down.  By no means am I doing extreme things but I’m just busier with more stress.  A simple example is I participated in an online fantasy football draft last night from 7-8:30.  I definitely felt amped up.  The positive was I wanted to do it and I think I enjoyed it which is new.    I coincidentally spoke to 2 friends Yesterday that just so happen to be going through  their own AD WD as well.  We spoke at length which at the time felt good but I wonder if it triggered me.   Work is not overwhelming but it does require a lot of driving. Today is a light day where I won’t travel and I don’t have much to do from home.  So in some ways, that’s good.  But I find the less I do, the more I ruminate although recently I’ve been a little better.  It’s a catch 22.  What’s frustrating is I felt like my cortisol was starting to calm down. I actually could ‘feel it’ getting better. I actually felt Napped a little bit on Saturday without the surge.   I guess it’s just the wave concept.  It will get better.  I did try Taurine 250 mg Tuesday morning.  I think it kind of helped with anxiety/cortisol but I felt weird and I think as it wore off I was a little Worse.  So I didn’t take it again.  
 

What’s interesting is I struggle with what my symptoms are; it’s weird but I have the obvious things of anxiety and depression that seems to cycle from day to day.  My sleep like I mentioned.  Low libido, hungry all the time, ruminating.  The ruminating seems better overall though.  I can’t tolerate too much stimulus like movies or loud music.  Cortisol spikes in the mornings.  I’ve had back pain some days that comes and goes.  It seems the pain comes just before an emotional change like depression or anxiety.  

My Recent typical Work day is something like this:

6 AM- out of bed

6:30- eat breakfast, take fish oil, vitamin c

7-check emails, etc

8- walk for 1 hour

9-10- prepare for work

10-12- drive to location (varies in time ; anywhere from 1-3 hours)
11- eat early lunch

12-3- see clients
1- snack, fish oil, vitamin c, magnesium

3-5 return home , snack
5-6 work- emails, etc

6- Dinner, clean up, kids things
6- fish oil, magnesium, vitamin c

7-talk with family, etc

8- Epsom salt baths, read, meditate, pray

9- prep for bed- magnesium, melatonin

9:45-10- in bed
2-3- wake up to use bathroom ( last week I was making it to 3:30/4ish)

3-6- doze somewhat but hardly sleep.  I take magnesium to help.  Cortisol spikes 3:30-6 or so.  I start out feeling ok then gradually doom and gloom and anxiety Sets in.  

My instincts say push on as I am the best I can.  Windows will come.  I’ve had some decent days and nights.  As you all know, It’s just overwhelming at times.  I do feel fortunate that my overall symptoms are manageable.  If my sleep would just improve a little I think I’d feel better.  That said, the few nights I’ve slept longer I typically have more depression he next day.  So who knows.  Tomorrow is 10 weeks that I took my last dose of lexapro.  Time is moving. One day at a time.  

[mstimc]

Hi Fighting

 

What you describe is almost exactly my experience during WD.  I was very sensitive to many types of stimuli I previously enjoyed.  I remember getting all teary during an episode of CSI: NY!  Its good you are making time for "kid things" and family talk.  That was really therapeutic for me and gave me a reason to continue with my recovery.  I was also caught in the same conundrum--work provided relief from recurring negative thoughts, but brought its own anxiety; overall,  though, I'd say it was better than staying home hiding from the world. It forced me to keep some perspective.  No day will be the same as the previous one or the next one.  It may be best to look at where you are now compared to several weeks ago.  Overall, I'd say you're making progress.  If you have to make adjustments to handle the anxiety on any given day, that's okay. I did try to pace myself and spread anxiety-inducing events so I could give myself a little recovery time in between.  As you make progress, you'll need to do this less.  Looks like you're doing fine!

[Fightinghard]

@mstimc  Thanks for the encouragement!  I know you understand the thoughts of ‘will I ever get better’, etc.  it’s tough.  I do try to remember the small victories with some windows.  I’m definitely more ‘social’ making phone calls and texting friends and family.  I do notice subtle improvements.  Even work wise, I don’t get the brain fatigue quite like I did.  Like I mentioned here, there are days that I have a hard time listing my symptoms outside of sleep.  Meaning the anxiety and depression have subsided some.  I guess the sensitivity to stimulus is always around. Even now, other than tired, I’m a little anxious but not major.  I’m working on my computer no problems.  I’m about to walk.  I feel tired, unmotivated, and irritable but I also havent slept well for months.  
 

I’ll stay focused and positive as best I can knowing better days are ahead.  I agree, the kid things are important for me and them. I’m going to take it light today and hope to calm my nervous system down.  
 

As always, thank you for your insight and support.  It truly helps me.  

[mstimc]

27 minutes ago, Fightinghard said:

As always, thank you for your insight and support.  It truly helps me.  

Any time, Fighting.  That's why I'm here!

 

[Fightinghard]

@Altostrata  if my symptoms were due to an adverse effect from a high dose would reinstatement make sense?  I’ve really been reflecting on this and I believe I leveled off some on lexapro in later May.  I still wasn’t sleeping great but it was slightly improved/different.  Anxiety was less but still there at night before bed.   I developed a pattern of a good night sleep (7 hours) one night and then an awful night sleep where I didn’t know if I was awake or asleep. Again, what’s hard is I was never stable on anything for very long.  Between dosage changes of lexapro, stopping buspar,  Taking trazadone a few times and then tapering off I think the only stretch of consistency was 4 weeks in May...and now since July 4th when I came off. So my gut is I had too many drugs at once that all caused me some issues. I do believe Lexapro was hurting my sleep and it never would have rectified. So I guess that’s an adverse reaction?  Thanks for your time. I just wanted to clarify since I’ve been pondering it. 
 

I tend to be an optimist so my symptoms are tough to gage.  I want to be better so badly I think I’m getting better.  That said I truly think I’m better. In fact, if you asked me last week I would have been more confident in that.  My GI issues are better, I’ve not had nightmares for awhile, my head is less foggy.  Tasks are easier. I don’t have the extreme fatigue or weakness of my body (I am tired), I’m actually able to sit still more often and be comfortable.  I’d say I’m currently in a wave with sleep disturbances, anxiety, intrusive thoughts, low libido, period depression and poor tolerance to stimulus. 
 

just wanted to clarify things!  Thanks again.!  

[Altostrata]

Could you also include your symptoms in your daily notes? And your sleep pattern?

 

You'll have to decide if your symptoms are tolerable. If you continue to slowly improve, you may not need to risk a reinstatement.

[Erell]

@Fightinghard : I see you tried to quote Altostrata's post, but the quotes are empty : what did you want to say ?

[Fightinghard]

I made a mistake posting that and ran out of time for my actual message. I’ll post it in a little bit. I need my computer. 

[Fightinghard]

18 hours ago, Altostrata said:

Could you also include your symptoms in your daily notes? And your sleep pattern?

 

You'll have to decide if your symptoms are tolerable. If you continue to slowly improve, you may not need to risk a reinstatement.

Hello @Altostrata-  thanks for responding.  My sleep pattern has be inconsistent lately.  Below is a summary:

9:00- I take my supplements which consistent of melatonin, Magnesium and fish oil.  

9:30-10 PM-  in bed.  I typically fall asleep pretty consistently in 15-20 minutes 

2-3 AM-  I typically wake up to use the bathroom.  I usually take a Mg Glycinate (100mg) to help go back to sleep

3-6 AM-  Usually I dose somewhat during this time.  The 4 AM cortisol spike (roughly) hits and at that time my anxiety spikes and the doom and gloom is there.  

6-6:30 out of bed for the day.

 

I’ve had some nights where I’ll sleep until 3:30 or so.  I had several nights in a row last week of this.  I also have had some nights that I can fall back to sleep after the initial awakening and sleep until 6.  Last night I did that.  I slept about 7 hours or so total with the hour I was awake in the middle of the night.  What ’s interesting is when I sleep ‘better’ or more I tend to feel more depressed versus anxious.  

 

Typically my symptoms are worse in the mornings with the cortisol spikes.  Generally by evening they are better.  I can say depending on my activity it does affect my symptoms. As a whole, I would say my symptoms seem to be a little less intense than the first month or so (I’m 10 weeks into this now).   Early on I had complete fatigue of my body, limited appetite, very low motivation, worse anxiety in the evenings.  Many of these have subsided.  I’m feeling ‘down’ today and a little depressed today.  Compared to the last time I felt this last week it’s much less.  Probably half as intense.  My biggest concerns are insomnia and the sensitive nervous system.  I’m so limited in what I can do with my family and work is tough because if I overstimulate I pay for it at night and with symptoms.  So I think my symptoms are tolerable most of the time when I manage them correctly.  Obviously though with work and kids I have to extend myself many days and i pay for it.  I was wondering if reinstatement would possibly help me in this sense where I could do more.  But after reading the WDnormal section, I get the sense that reinstatement at best may be a little better than i am now.  

 

 I will send detailed symptoms with my next 2 days of logs.  My last daily log was a summary of what is typical versus actual days.  

 

Thank you for your support and guidance with this.  

 

 

[Altostrata]

Your pattern sounds like typical withdrawal syndrome.

 

Up to you whether you find it tolerable and want to hold out for slow, gradual recovery without reinstatement.

[Fightinghard]

Tough decision. I realize I’m looking at months not weeks for recovery.  I’ve had some improvements for sure with waves and windows pattern.  I’d estimate I’m 30% better.  No more nightmares, vivid dreams, waking up in a panic, weakness, extreme fatigue... If I had an adverse reaction to lexapro then I would not want to reinstate, correct?

[Fightinghard]

@mstimc  Hello Sir!  Hope you’re doing well. I’m hoping you can share your insight on how I’m approaching my recovery.  I’m 10 weeks into this WD now and my ideal window to reinstate is slowly closing.  Realistically, I have months ahead of me in this recovery regardless of how I go about it. Right now my major symptoms are the insomnia (which I did have a decent night Thursday), anxiety, depression, sensitive to stimulus(movies, loud music,etc), fatigue, ruminating and some intrusive thoughts. I’m also hungry all the time.   I do have this ‘twitch.’ I haven’t had before but who knows. I truly think my current depressed feeling is much less than last week when I had it.  My anxiety generally has been less. I have had more periods of wanting to do things like read or focus on my job. As a whole I’ve improved since my first few weeks. At least that’s my perception. I’ve contemplated reinstatement only because I want to do everything I can to feel better so I can be there for my wife and kids. Be more productive with work. Based on what you’ve written, you’ve reinstated and tapered over a period of years.  Your WD was difficult with symptoms throughout. Many of the symptoms similar to what I’m experiencing. I guess where I’m going with this is reinstatement/tapering isn’t going to make me ‘good’ or back to normal. It’s just a way to relieve symptoms but it’s no guarantee. Is this fair what I’m saying?  My wife thinks I’ve made progress and basically I need to take my focus off the WD and move on. She’s not denying the WD but she’s saying stop feeding it. Her point is a lot of people are struggling now without WD and I have a history of anxiety, rumination, minor depression so don’t put everything on the WD.  Like she said, ‘do you want to be on the meds or not?’ When we discuss reinstatement.  I do believe I’ve been blessed in terms of my WD symptoms compared to many.  It hasn’t been easy by any means and it’s a fight everyday but I know it could be worse.
 

So, I have a lot of respect for you and your approach to this process. At this point I think I need to carry on with CBT, moderate work, focus on my family and friends and give less energy to the WD.  Unfortunately there is the reality of it and I will have to modify things like gentle exercise versus intense exercise.  But I’m really thinking more than ever that there will be plenty of ups and downs or waves and windows but that is what many people are dealing with these days. I have to stop searching this site and others for solutions or to validate a symptom,etc. Just live my life as best I can with the understanding of what is going on. I’m starting to believe that the WD recovery has become an outlet for me during this trying time with Covid. I’ve always focused on things whether exercise, diet, etc and now it’s this. Searching for ways to feel better instead of just being in the moment. Sorry to ramble... but I do greatly appreciate your view.  I think you’re grounded in the ideas of acceptances and taking responsibility for yourself which is where I’m at. 
 

This was much longer than I expected so sorry about that. Do I seem like I’m being realistic in my path?  I don’t want to be blind to the reality of WD.  I know you can’t predict things but based on your experiences with this?
 

Everyone on this site has been phenomenal and I can’t express how appreciative I am of the support. 
 

thanks!

[mstimc]

Hi Fighting

 

Great insights on your WD and recovery!  And thank you for the compliment!

 

First, just to clarify, I reinstated because I took my MD's advice and tapered too fast.  It wasn't specifically the symptoms, its that they hit me all at once with no context or support structure to fall back on.  Once I found the correct taper, I stuck with it despite all the symptoms.

 

I agree with your wife.  (I always agree with mine--I've been married 33 years! 😆).  You are making progress.  That's obvious in your posts.  As I said, don't focus on one day compared to another--look at where you are now compared to a month or two months ago.  You've made a lot of progress.  I don't advise people to reinstate or not; that's intensely personal and really is a gamble.  There's no predicting how you'll react.  If you don't reinstate, you at least know what to expect; windows and waves, with slow but progressive progress.  If you reinstate, you my or may not feel better, but sooner or later you'll need to come off the meds.  If it were me, I'd cut myself a little more slack and give myself time to recover.  From my perspective, you're really doing well!

[Fightinghard]

I think the most valuable takeaway from your comment is to agree with my wife!  All kidding aside she has been phenomenal though this which is nothing new.  At this point, I don’t believe the risk of reinstatement is worthwhile considering I am functioning in the current situation.  I’d estimate I’m probably at 50% of what I was pre-Meds and WD.  Truly I may not be much better than that if I wan’t in WD and never took lexapro.   I really think I’ve improved over the past months and even with insomnia I’m having the waves and windows with some decent nights and then a  not so decent night.  Similar to anxiety or depression with good and bad days, etc.  

 

I know reinstatement would be a big decision that only I can and should make.  Reality is either direction I take is a risk;  As you implied, I already have a sense of the path I’m on and what to expect.  I’ll stay this course and follow my wife’s suggestions and work hard.  I’m hoping to be less active with this site and the internet in general in terms of WD relief and symptoms.  I think the peer support this site offers I will continue with as needed.  Reality is, all of our cases and healing have similarities but they are all very different and they are not necessarily predictive of what I will go through.  For every difficult case there are many that have no issues at all and heal up quickly. I just have to take my course whatever that is and do my best. 

 

Thanks again!  I appreciate it!  

[mstimc]

Its a sure sign you're recovering if you realize your wife is always right!

 

You make a great point.  Sites like this are great for support, but the people here are a small fraction of those either on meds or getting off of them.  Very few people know the reality of AD WD and have no way of dealing with the symptoms.  They either suffer needlessly or go back on the meds for life.  We are so lucky/blessed to have found SA.  

 

Good luck on your journey and let us know how you're doing!

[Fightinghard]

So I had an interesting night last night. Yesterday was ‘ok’ with some anxiety and basically what I’d call a cortisol type day. Woke up with higher anxiety than I’ve had lately and it kind of continued. My wife and I had a ‘heart to heart’ type of conversation about life which was emotional, we then walked for about an hour or so in the heat and after that I did simple chores for the day. I decided to be calm as much as I could and watched some football. It was almost normal for me but not quite as focused or enjoyable.  Anyway I actually fell asleep some on the couch. A cortisol jolt or 2 happened but I’d guess I slept about 30-40 minutes? I thought this might be a good sign as naps generally have been elusive. It was not a preMedication nap but so be it. After the nap, I ended up in a more aroused, anxiety feeling.  For bed,  I was able to fall asleep but I had several wake ups and it seemed to be lighter sleep. I definitely dreamed more and maybe one dream was ‘bad’.  I was very hungry at my normal 2ish wake up so I had a few sunflower seeds and my Magnesium dose.  I did ‘sleep’ longer with several wake ups here and there but not much anxiety this morning.  Maybe a little sadness/depression but not much.   I had similar nights back when I was on the lexapro. Typically I’d have a ‘good night’ sleep followed by this light night of what I called REM rebound.  More dreams, lighter sleep, etc. your brain needs REM sleep and I’ve not been getting as much so it compensates.  I think that’s what happened last night. Anyway, I think I learned don’t nap -yet! 

This hunger is very interesting. I feel like when I’m hungry it leads to negative emotions or a wave of some type. Weird. And I’m hungry a lot.  It’s truly a different hunger than before lexapro but still hunger. 
 

On a side note, I keep saying I was on lexapro but reality is I took the generic escitalopram. I’m not sure if that changes anything unless maybe I reinstate.  
 

 

[mstimc]

I think hunger and anxiety are related.  You're either too uptight to eat, or you have so much pent-up energy eating provides a bit of relief--something to do. 

 

I do find my dream state is very different when I'm agitated.  Lots of "weird" dreams--not nightmares exactly but somehow disturbing.  I kind of got used to them.  BTW, just a bit of trivia, I once read our dreams always have people we've met or know, sometimes playing different roles than in real life.  Interesting!

[Fightinghard]

I agree with you on the hunger. I think With WD blood sugar tends to drop or be lower. This leads to hunger.  If you don’t eat, your body considers it ‘stress’ and releases cortisol (which in WD it overshoots) hence the intense anxiety. 
 

This sleep thing is so crazy. Just when I think I’m in a pattern and trending better something else happens. I guess that’s life.  Compared to some, my WD sleep is pretty good so I shouldn’t complain. Like someone told me we progress with baby steps. At some point you look back and realize I am doing better. In the moment it still isn’t great but it is better.  I think I’m there now. Less intense depression, a little less intense anxiety but still there. 
 

That is interesting about dreams.  Late last year I read a book on sleep and I was on a sleep kick.  Found it fascinating. It’s almost ironic I’m now in this situation.  Makes me wonder sometimes if my attention and interest in sleep prior to lexapro influences my WD symptoms.  

[Fightinghard]

Hello @Gridley @Altostrata

 

 

Reinstatement is obviously a big decision that only I can make.  As you guys have said, if my current WD is tolerable that it may make sense to stay the course.  With the waves and windows pattern of recovery, obviously depending on the day determines where I may be on that spectrum.  

 

There are 2 factors I’m considering most with reinstatement that I was hoping I could get some thoughts on:

 

1- I started Buspar and Lexapro basically together.  Plus ai sprinkled in Trazodone a few days and Ambient a few days.  After a few weeks, I upped my lexapro from 5 mg to 10 mg.  My memory of my initial 5.5 weeks of Lexapro was I never really felt great.  In fact, I tend to believe that my current symptoms almost mimic some of my feelings on Lexapro (and Buspar for 5 weeks).  When I was taking them, I would wake up in the middle of the night (maybe 4-5 hours) then never really fall back to sleep.  Maybe occasionally I would for a few hours.  I had weird sleep.  Not very restful even when I was getting it.  I’d wake up with anxiety with the thought that the lexapro was wearing off which was why i felt bad.  I’d take lexapro in the morning with buspar.  Anxiety would slow down until about 1 or so and into the afternoon.  Then I’d get the tight chest until about 4pm.  After that I’d calm down some but I’d have the feeling I couldn’t sit still.  I always wanted to move around.  By 7 PM I’d take the second buspar thinking it would calm me down.  I’d still get some evening chest tightness with anxiety.   So I would have anxiety in the morning, afternoon and evening everyday.  I now get this similar pattern but to a lesser degree.  I’ve come to the conclusion its the cortisol levels leading to this... I vividly remember when I started my uninformed taper from 10 mg to 5 mg the anxiety and chest discomfort was so bad in the evenings I’d have to lay with my wife for comfort.  That did subside after about 2 weeks but has lingered on and off mildly since.  I guess when i think about this,  I just wasn’t very stable on Lexapro so i’m hesitant to take it again for the concern I’d go backwards.  That said, if I take a really low dose (.5mg like Gridley suggested) would that be enough to calm down my current insomnia and cortisol issues without the negatives?  

 

2-  My current symptoms do seem to be subsiding very subtly.  My anxiety generally has been less and my depression has been much less.  I can tolerate dong more work on my computer and I’m able to drive distances.  I still don’t enjoy things I used to and I can’t tolerate too  much stimulus.  I’m always hungry or so it seems.  Insomnia is elusive but most nights I am getting about 4-7 hours a night depending on the day.  It’s broken but at least I’m getting some.  I have had some insomnia windows of 7:30 hours of broken sleep which is hopeful.  As you guys can relate to, it’s the evening in bed laying awake worrying about my kids and my ability to provide is when I think about reinstatement.  Does that give me the best chance to get through this while maintaining my production at work and my family?  While I consider my current situation tolerable it is not easy by any means.  When I read other’s stories where they are tapering and WDing I think I’m doing as well as they are in many cases.  So that’s when I say i guess I just stay the course.  I’m accepting that WDnormal is what I am in.  I’ve had some windows each week and really almost daily with short periods of calm and feeling decent.  I feel ‘ok’ right now.  I’m tired with a slight anxiety but otherwise good.  I can focus and work, etc. No other symptoms.  

 

So with my short time on Lexapro and how I felt on it, it seems my best course is to stick this out.  I am open to reinstating but based on what I understand and my limited experience it just doesn’t seem to make sense.    Understanding this is a marathon and not a sprint,  I’m coming to terms that I’m looking at very gradual improvements over the next coming months.  The timeframe is unknown and I’m not expecting to be ‘healed’ in a month.  I do hope to show improvement in a month like I have each month so far. But I’m realizing I’ll probably be working this throughout the rest of this year and beyond.  

 

Are my thoughts and rationale reasonable?  Or am I missing something in my consideration?  My one question to myself is I wasn’t on Lexpro very long before I tapered off of it.  Would i have eventually settled down and felt better?  At the time I wasn’t going to wait around to find out.  I want to be decisive with this but there is a lot on the line and I want to be sure I’m being as thorough as possible. I’m just over 10 weeks out since my last dose.  

 

Thank you so much for your time and thoughts on this. I greatly appreciate your willingness to help.  

[Gridley]

1 hour ago, Fightinghard said:

Are my thoughts and rationale reasonable?

They seem very reasonable to me, and the conclusion you've reached--to stick it out--is supported by the progress you're making.

1 hour ago, Fightinghard said:

 My current symptoms do seem to be subsiding very subtly.  My anxiety generally has been less and my depression has been much less.  I can tolerate dong more work on my computer and I’m able to drive distances.  I still don’t enjoy things I used to and I can’t tolerate too  much stimulus.  I’m always hungry or so it seems.  Insomnia is elusive but most nights I am getting about 4-7 hours a night depending on the day.  It’s broken but at least I’m getting some.  I have had some insomnia windows of 7:30 hours of broken sleep which is hopeful.  A

This is all very positive.  Reinstatement is a risk, and as I think I said previously, you're really doing pretty well, and the fact that you're getting fairly decent sleep is a real plus.  As you said,  you're looking at very gradual improvements over the next months.  In my opinion, you've reached the correct conclusion, to hold and stick it out.