stevenb: need advice on tapering Zyprexa and citalopram

[stevenb]

Also I was having very bad inner restlessness. Fidgety, twitchy. Worried it might have been akathsia

[hayduke]

27 minutes ago, ChessieCat said:

I mean not changing your drugs again and trying non drug techniques to try to help with the insomnia

 

@stevenb hang about, did you switch to rexulti a second time?

 

My original prescriber put me on Abilify with a 1 week cross taper from risperidone that sounds similar to yours.  It was nearly a disaster.  I had to swap back to zyprexa which is a massive tranquiliser, even more so than risperidone, where the aripiprazole was like coffee or something.  Not at all sedating.  I wasn't able to sleep or sit still.  Even oxazepam didn't help much, I've not had any use for benzos since as they just make me anxious since then.
 

I was already under a lot of stress and it nearly derailed me.  In hindsight it helped me realise what a quack the prescriber was because it was such an obvious hazard to cut from a sedative to what acted as a stimulant.

Edited December 18, 2021 by hayduke

[stevenb]

6 minutes ago, hayduke said:

 

@stevenb hang about, did you switch to rexulti a second time?

 

My original prescriber put me on Abilify with a 1 week cross taper from risperidone  that sounds similar to yours.  It was nearly a disaster.  I had to swap back to zyprexa which is a massive tranquiliser, even more so than risperidone, where the aripiprazole was like coffee or something.  Not at all sedating.  I wasn't able to sleep or sit still.  Even oxazepam didn't help much, I've not had any use for benzos since as they just make me anxious since then.
 

I was already under a lot of stress and it nearly derailed me.  In hindsight it helped me realise what a quack the prescriber was because it was such an obvious hazard to cut from a sedative to what acted a stimulant.

I had a very messed up taper over, was at hospital in and our for refills twice. I went from back and forth a lot. And yes! This is exactly what it's like, I went from sleeping 12 or more hours a day to getting no sleep at all and feeling wired non stop. Peak negative symptoms are after I take my doses too, so that's why I kinda lost it this time.

[hayduke]

@stevenb please update your drug signature as ChessieCat asked.

 

I can't see any sensible option I would take in your position besides switching back to olanzapine and tapering off it after you're all steady again.  Can't see anything to gain by getting on anything else instead.

[stevenb]

•  

20 hours ago, hayduke said:

@stevenb please update your drug signature as ChessieCat asked.

 

I can't see any sensible option I would take in your position besides switching back to olanzapine and tapering off it after you're all steady again.  Can't see anything to gain by getting on anything else instead.

Sorry I really don't know the dates. I will try and remember.

I'm really having a hard time with this decision. I tapered (zig zag style) for a year and a half and worried it did nothing. And I am also 100% certain I do not have the mental capaticy to do a slow, calculated taper.

[hayduke]

We are trying to guide you to the least worst options we can see for you.  Well into the realm of harm minimisation.  

 

It's already been said here that we can't assist you if you keep chopping and changing.  You're telling us how much worse you feel when you disregard our suggestions.  How do you expect us to be able to support you?

 

Suggest you weigh up the likely outcomes for each course of action you are considering.

 

Also consider therapy as it seems you might benefit from being able to set your course and stick to it.  It's hard enough to do this without adding noise and fuss.

[stevenb]

In a real bad spot. I haven't got the zyprexa and citalopram until feb. I also can't go to the hospital because everyone is done with me. If I do call, i'm gonna end up there. Not get admitted. Be in and out with refills and no ride home.

I've been smoking heavy witch I know isn't helping and also last night I took a benadryl so I could get a few hours of sleep.

Trying to stay away from people and just stay calm. 

 

[stevenb]

I should stay away from benadryl right now with how sensitive I am right?

[ChessieCat]

1 hour ago, stevenb said:

I should stay away from benadryl right now with how sensitive I am right?

 

Only you can make the decision about whether you take benadryl or not.

 

As hayduke said, you need to weigh up the benefits and disadvantages, or the good and bad, of anything you do or take.  And also take responsibility for the decisions that you make and the outcome of those decisions, just like every member of SA.

 

I've already given you suggestions about what non drug things you could try for the insomnia but you don't seem to want to try those.

[stevenb]

I know i'm not really liked on this site because I can't follow the protocol, but when you crash a car you can't expect it to drive well or at all. Last dose of citalopram and zyprexa was over 2 weeks ago and last dose of the newer meds was maybe 8 days ago.

 

I thought about reinstating but my psychiatrist is having some communication issues I guess. I asked for olanzapine and she prescribed me citalopram.

 

Also last night I had a pretty scary sleep paralysis episode. I felt like I was trying to scream for help but couldn't move or talk so laid there frozen for a good while. Eventually it did pass though and I slept a good 9 hours so maybe that is a good sign?

[hayduke]

@stevenb it's not that you're not liked.

 

Citalopram or not, cold turkey on 15mg of olanzapine isn't going to be pretty.  I can tell you I wouldn't have coped with a CT off even 1mg without major consequences.

 

It's up to you to educate your prescriber, or better if you can, find one who knows what they're doing.  It's not possible for us to negotiate these situations for you in your life.

 

And what do you think we can do for you in the aftermath?

 

Suggest reading some of the zyprexa cold turkey accounts you can find on the site with a search.  

[stevenb]

Okay so I have been back on 20mg citalopram and 15mg olanzapine for about a week now and.. it's been both pleasant (not being psychotic) and both stressful because of the bad habits I have on the medication (weight gain, smoking cigarretes everyday, ect)

 

I asked my psychiatrist if she has any plans to taper me off my medication and she said no. She thinks I should just take the medication. I have been diagnosed schizophrenic/bipolar, the latest diagnoses I believe was schizoaffective(wich is schizophrenia/bipolar) and major depressive disorder and am currently buying into the idea that may just be sick and need the medication.

 

So some questions. 

 

1. I started smoking after my first week or longer CT from the meds. Don't know if it's coincidence or not but ever since that lengthy CT attempt i'm a smoker. Do you think if I were to stabalize on the medication for months or longer that would go away? Or will I just be craving cigarettes forever now as long as i'm on psych meds?

 

2. Should I just listen to my psychiatrist and take my meds as prescribed an give up on tapering? I really don't think I can taper myself off them. I wanted a professional to help me with it but the professional doesn't want me to do it so.. idk.

[Hopela]

6 hours ago, stevenb said:

I wanted a professional to help me

Professionals have been a leading cause of death for a long time when just looking at statistics on what they're actually succesfully pinned with which could be just a fraction of real adverse results.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK225187/

 

A professional:

 

Their money keeps rolling in. Keep an open mind, be your own health professional.

 

As far as psychiatric drug withdrawal goes you're unlikely to find better support than this forum.

6 hours ago, stevenb said:

I really don't think I can taper myself off them

You can set a goal to lower your dose instead, what suits you best at a certain time.

[stevenb]

I agree Hopela. It's really sad but true.

 

My insomnia is really bad and getting worse unfortunately. Hope that will resolve itself in time?

I did a lot of researching and finally found a way of doing it that I think I would have some success at. I wasn't thinking it was possible for me until I found this method. It's the digital scale and a nail file so I guess you just use the nail file to shave off the pill until you get to the measured amount. It will arrive this Friday. But i'm guessing I have to start my taper all over from the beginning correct?

 

I was thinking of tapering Olanzapine first cause it's the one I dislike the most. So I would go from 15 -> 13.5

 

EDIT: Also should I give myself some time on the 15mg dose to stabalize or can I just go right to reducing to 13.5? Thanks.

[hayduke]

On 1/3/2022 at 3:03 PM, stevenb said:

Or will I just be craving cigarettes forever now as long as i'm on psych meds?

 

I've seen research quoted that nicotine helps metabolise the classes of drug you are being given faster.

 

On 1/3/2022 at 3:03 PM, stevenb said:

Should I just listen to my psychiatrist and take my meds as prescribed an give up on tapering?

 

It's up to you to decide what you need and what's good for your healing.  Yes listen to others, but even choosing who to listen to and how much of what they tell you to take on board is up to you.  Otherwise someone else is liable to take charge of it, typically not in a pleasing way.

[stevenb]

Think I might be hitting tolerance or something. I have been beyond low lately. hopefully just a kindling effect or something, idk.

Tapering kit arrives tommorow though, so happy for that.

[stevenb]

Feeling awful. Not sure why.

Can I get an opinion of where I should start though? Should I start all over with my taper with a 10% reduction to one of the medications? Or is there something else I should be doing?

 

I am considering holding off on starting it though, want to try and stabalize a little first cause i'm not doing so hot with all those CT attempts. An opinion on that would be cool too, thanks.

[stevenb]

I can't get the math and measuring down, don't think this method will work for me.

[Hopela]

21 hours ago, stevenb said:

don't think this method will work for me

 

On 1/5/2022 at 11:13 AM, stevenb said:

It's the digital scale and a nail file

 

21 hours ago, stevenb said:

I can't get the math and measuring down

Is you scale accurate enough? What math are you attempting?

[stevenb]

No clue how to use the scale. Getting my head yelled off while desperately trying to figure out a way to reduce my dosage. Stupid pills.... I give up.

[Hopela]

17 hours ago, stevenb said:

I give up

Up to you. You could put the scale on an even surface. Start the scale with nothing on top of it. Make sure the scale shows 0.000g. Then put a whole tablet on it. Read the scale. Post the weight here. The weight will not be 15 mg but much more since the tablet contains at least a filler substance and coating layer.  

[ChessieCat]

22 hours ago, stevenb said:

No clue how to use the scale.

 

I suggest that you read through this topic which contains a lot of information.  Probably best to start at the beginning and gradually work your way through.  You do not have to read all of it at one time.

 

In Post #1 there are some links to videos of people using their scale:

 

using-a-scale-to-weigh-and-measure-doses

 

[stevenb]

Been on for 2 or more weeks, nothing is improving. It's only getting worse. Had a bad adverse reaction 2 days ago. Worried I may have either missed my reinstatement window or i'm just really unable to tolerate these anymore.

[stevenb]

I also had to double up from 20mg citalopram to 40mg citalopram today because each day i've just been feeling worse and worse. Can't even say it helped.

[stevenb]

A day for me anymore looks like this.

 

Wake up, take meds. Feel worse.

Smoke a few ciggarettes throughout the day.

Exercise, still not feeling better.

Take evening meds, still no relief.

 

Wake up and do the same thing again with worse than before results.

[hayduke]

On 1/7/2022 at 7:52 PM, stevenb said:

Feeling awful. Not sure why.

On 1/11/2022 at 10:09 AM, stevenb said:

I also had to double up from 20mg citalopram to 40mg citalopram today because each day i've just been feeling worse and worse. Can't even say it helped.

 

Not much is going to help a cold turkey from 15mg olanzapine, except reinstatement.

 

Let alone piling on more psychiatric drugs. 

 

I would cut back to 20mg citalopram again and reinstate 5mg olanzapine, then a long hold.  

 

I would be very concerned about finding stability otherwise.  I don't think there's much further we could suggest after that.

[stevenb]

I tried lowering my dosage and it wouldn't stick for even a day. I think if I was meant to taper off these I would have figured it out by now. I'm taking my diagnoses more seriously now and plan to just take my meds as prescribed. I would love to be off them, but it just doesn't look like it's going to happen for me. 

 

My diagnoses have been Schizophrenia/bi-polar in the past and more recently schizoaffective. These do require long-term treatment so it makes sense.

 

Last post from me here hopefully! Warm wishes to everyone here.

[hayduke]

I really hope you can get yourself stabilised without being clobbered too hard with more pharmaceutical changes, @stevenb.  If you decide to outsource control of what is going into your body, I would be looking for very high levels of trust and competence, not always that common, so I would urge you to be confident you have found a practitioner deserving of your trust.

 

It's not really possible to do much effective healing or tapering without stabilising for a good while and taking stock of where you are and where you need to be.

 

I hope you find some healing.

[stevenb]

Hey, back again. Very worn and tired. I got suckered into to switching to Abilify injection. I guess I thought it would work, the switch if I gave it time but I am getting the nasty side effect from abilify. Akathisia, i'm always moving and restless. Can't sleep well at all, slept 3 hours last night.

 

My traumas are catching up with me, like i'm always in this mode of not being okay anymore. I tried the whole taking the meds and being a good patient, but just so discontent with my situation and my failing health that i'm acting very reckless with my treatment. Kinda angry and feel let down by my care team. Have been off olanzapine for basically a month, few days with half of a pill in there a while back. I talked to my doctor about going back to olanzapine and she said it was out of the question, so now my options are...

 

Switch to a different antipsyhotic that isn't causing such distressing side effects or just skip the injection coming up and see if I can make it without. My appointment is on March 4th and I just don't even know if I have the strength to go.

 

If I died would anyone care? I don't think so, it sucks to know. I'm only 28 years old but for the last 5 years i've felt like a 90 year old man.

[stevenb]

Also Hayduke, I listened to what you had said before switching and tried to find a therapist but i'm really stretched thin. I asked for a referral and searched my area, couldn't really find anything. My care team just brushed it off everytime I asked about one, even though they had said that I needed one. idk.

[hayduke]

@stevenb I'm sorry to hear you are still in distress.  Unfortunately being made uncomfortable by others is a rather common outcome when you cede decision making in your life to others.

 

I would ask myself what will I do to take control of my life back?  

[stevenb]

Well, another abilify injection is suicide. So I guess i'm just going to go to my appointment and see what they have to say and go from there.

 

Could I get your opinion on my zig-zag taper? Or have any links on updosing? Just wondering if it did anything at all in terms of getting off the meds or if it did nothing. I did do the same method of tapering with trazodone and did eventually get off that one, so that gives me a little hope.

[hayduke]

3 hours ago, stevenb said:

Could I get your opinion on my zig-zag taper?

 

Wouldn't I just be repeating myself?  We've given you plenty of suggestions in your thread here to stabilise and taper gently.  I am not sure what you are looking for instead in choosing to disregard these suggestions.

 

Perhaps a therapist outside your area can assist you over video link if you are in a remote small town and no one local is appropriate.  If I were you I would keep looking until I found appropriate support.

 

3 hours ago, stevenb said:

I guess i'm just going to go to my appointment and see what they have to say and go from there.

 

What makes you think you wouldn't get another depot injection if you go back.

I really think you are going to need to work through some issues with a professional beyond just tapering.  We cannot provide that here.  This forum is for peer support with tapering for people who are ready and understand why they need to.
 

[stevenb]

I mean I was trying to stabilize and I ended up back here lol

 

but okay thank you

[stevenb]

citalopram and olanzapine

 

I posted here a while back but I cannot gain access to the account, have tried messaging staff so forgive me but making a new account was only thing I could think to do. (MOD NOTE: request for accounts to be merged has been made)

 

History: May 2017 hospitalized and put on Citalopram 20mg and Olanzapine 15mg

While on forum in 2020 I tried tapering by reducing my dose, then updosing a few days later in an attempt to get off that way, did not work.

2020-2022 multiple failed attempts at med change

Currently: Coming off another failed med switch and have been lost in the system trying to be a good patient.

 

I have a refill for citalopram 20mg and Olanzapine 10mg. Gonna reinstate half the citalopram at 10mg and take the olanzapine 10mg to start. But honestly, I don't know where to start, hopefully this works.

 

 

Edited August 22, 2022 by ChessieCat
added Intro topic title before merging with intro topic

[ChessieCat]

What assistance are you wanting at this time?