ADRecovery: an awful summer

[ADRecovery]

I am a young man I have been on and off Fluoxetine for 10 years for OCD. I quit CT in May and decided to stay off of them for good. Shortly, afterwards I developed moderate PSSD which led to the end of a relationship sending me into a deep depression and exacerbating anxiety. I foolishly did not suffer in silence and told people who informed me my symptoms were psychosomatic and I agreed to take Buspirone 10 mg for a week in mid-July. However, I went further into a downward spiral and eventually went inpatient end of July where I was taken off  of buspirone and took Mirtazapine for two nights at 7.5 mg but stopped afterwards because I felt it was worsening my PSSD. I have been off of everything for over a month and while my PSSD is very severe at this point (complete impotence, no libido, severe numbness, physical changes) that is not my greatest concern. I have complete emotional numbness, derealization, and insomnia (1-2 hrs a night) that have been extremely crippling. I would do anything to get my emotions and passion for life back regardless of any sexual function. I have tried to go back to college but cannot focus and spend my days regretting ever going on SSRIs, regretting turning to people I trusted, and taking more medication that worsened me. All that I can do is think about how different my life would be right now if I had not have made certain decisions. I have been taking fish oil but if anyone had any advice for how to get through this I would appreciate it.           

[Gridley]

Welcome to SA, ADRecovery.  I'm sorry you're going through this.

 

To give members the best information, we ask them to summarize their medication history in a signature -- drugs, doses, dates, and discontinuations & reinstatements, in the last 12-24 months particularly.

 

Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature.

 

You are experiencing withdrawal stemming from your cold turkey of Fluoxetine.  The symptoms you describe are typical of withdrawal.

 

What is withdrawal syndrome.

 

Daily Checklist of Antidepressant Withdrawal Symptoms (PDF) 

 

When we take psychiatric medications, the CNS (central nervous system) responds by making changes over the months and years we take the drug(s). When the medication is discontinued, the CNS has to undo all the changes it made. Rebuilding the neurotransmitter production and reactivating the receptor and transporter cells takes time -- during that rebuilding process symptoms occur.  

 

These explain the healing process really well:

 

Video:  Healing From Antidepressants - Patterns of Recovery

 

Brain Remodelling 

 

Reinstatement of a very small dose of the original drug is the only known way to help alleviate withdrawal syndrome.  The only other alternative is to try and wait out the symptoms and manage as best you can until your central nervous system returns to homeostasis.  Unfortunately no one can give you an exact timeline as to when you will start feeling better and while some do recover relatively easily, for others it can take many months or longer.  

 

Reinstatement isn't a guarantee of diminished symptoms for everyone but it's the best tactic available.  You're just outsides the time period where reinstatement predictably works, up to 3 months after last dose, but reinstatement could still work.  We usually suggest a much smaller reinstatement dose than your last dose.  These drugs are strong, your system has become sensitized and If you take too much it may be too much for your brain.  Then, once you've stabilized on the reinstated dosage, which can take several months,  you can begin a 10% per month taper down to zero.   Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

Please read: About reinstating and stabilizing to reduce withdrawal symptoms. -- at least the first page of the topic

 

If you decide you want to reinstate, I recommend reinstating 1mg Fluoxetine--no more.  This link tell you how to get this small dose, either by making your own liquid, using prescription liquid or using a digital scale, such as the Gemini-20 available on Amazon.

Tips for tapering off fluoxetine (Prozac)

 

 It takes about 4 days for a dose change to get to get to full state in the blood and a bit longer for it to register in the brain.

 

Please keep us updated on what you decide to do and how you're doing.

 

We don't recommend a lot of supplements on SA, as many members report being sensitive to them due to our over-reactive nervous systems, but two supplements that we do recommend are magnesium and omega 3 (fish oil). Many people find these to be calming to the nervous system. 

 

Magnesium, nature's calcium channel blocker 

 

Omega-3 fatty acids (fish oil) 

 

Add in one at a time and at a low dose in case you do experience problems.

 

This is your Introduction topic, where you can ask questions, complete your drug signature and connect with other members.  We're glad you found your way here.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ADRecovery]

In the past 12-24 months all that I have taken is Prozac for a week at 40 mg in May before quitting CT and for 2 months at 20 mg in September-November 2019 and the Mirtazapine and Buspirone as discussed above. Before that I had gone off and on Fluoxetine 4-5 times in the past 10 years starting when I was 12 at at doses from 15-20 mg. In retrospect it did affect my sexual function mildly but I did not realize because I went on before I was sexually developed and was not the most sexually active person before late college. I really hope my system returns to some type of homeostasis because I would like to sleep well, have emotions, and be sexually active again but I am worried it is too late because I severely worsened my PSSD symptoms with Mirtazapine. Last week I was finally able to cry which was nice but this week has been especially tough. I also have physical body changes (e.g., change in body hair, dry nose, genital shrinkage, rapid heartbeat) which is why I am worried this is going to be permanent and I no longer respond to caffeine which I have read about in the severe cases of PSSD that do not recover. I still have stopped drinking it to try and improve my sleep. The worst part about this is I feel that I have no support from my family because they think this is all in my head and it is hard to go through something so difficult without people understanding. My one question is does anyone have any advice for sleep I exercise and take 30 mg of Melatonin but nothing happens. Also how do you overcome regret at decisions you made and anger at others for putting me on on antidepressants before I was sexually developed. Especially given the prospect that some of the things I am going through may be permanent. 

[Gridley]

20 hours ago, ADRecovery said:

which is why I am worried this is going to be permanent

We have found that withdrawal symptoms are not permanent and heal in time.

 

20 hours ago, ADRecovery said:

I no longer respond to caffeine which I have read about in the severe cases of PSSD that do not recover.

 

I wouldn't believe everything you read.  Try not to catastrophize.  It's stressful to your system.

20 hours ago, ADRecovery said:

The worst part about this is I feel that I have no support from my family because they think this is all in my head and it is hard to go through something so difficult without people understanding.

 

I'm sorry.  This is all too common.

20 hours ago, ADRecovery said:

30 mg of Melatonin but nothing happens. 

That is an enormous dose, far too much.  Melatonin in high doses can have a paradoxical effect--it keeps you awake.  Try a dose around 0.3mg.  This dose is available at the following link: melatonin (available on Amazon) is exactly 0.3 mg. 

 

Here are some other links to help sleep:

 

Tips to help sleep - so many of us have that awful withdrawal insomnia

 

Relaxation exercises, guided meditations, calming videos, sleep hypnosis

 

Tricks and tips to fall asleep faster

 

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2017/02/16/tips-tricks-fall-asleep-faster.aspx?utm_source=dnl&utm_medium=email&utm_content=art1&utm_campaign=20170216Z1&et_cid=DM133787&et_rid=1889748952

 

This link contains helpful information, including insomnia and also non-drug coping skills.  

 

Important topics about symptoms, including sleep problems

 

 

 

Edited September 2, 2020 by Gridley

[brassmonkey]

@Gridley  I think you made a typo in your first sentence. I'm pretty sure you meant "not" instead of "now".

[Gridley]

2 minutes ago, brassmonkey said:

typo

Fixed.  Thanks, Brass.

[ADRecovery]

Thanks for the insight on the melatonin. I had a really tough day today - completely anhedonic, immense head pressure likely from sleeping about 3 hours total over the past few nights. I wish I could see a light at the end of the tunnel but instead I’m stuck thinking about past decisions that led me here. I also wish I would have known about kindling and hypersensitivity before I had this on and off relationship with fluoxetine in my adolescence. 

[Gridley]

3 minutes ago, ADRecovery said:

I’m stuck thinking about past decisions that led me here.

I think a lot of us here have done that.  If you can get yourself to a position of acceptance and self-forgiveness, it would go easier for you.  

[ADRecovery]

I understand that. I just feel everything that I worked so hard for in life is slipping away and I am stuck helpless. I just want my cognitive function, sleep, emotions, passion for life, and sexuality back but do not know what to do to achieve that.

[ADRecovery]

I have hardly slept at all in the past 48 hours. I don’t want to take anything else but it is really starting to wear on my body. Does anyone have any advice?

[ChessieCat]

 

tips-to-help-sleep-so-many-of-us-have-that-awful-withdrawal-insomnia

 

[HardTimes]

Hey AdRecovery.

I'm new here too, so my words are not as full of the wisdom as some of the experts on this site, who have been really supportive.

 

But I can speak to a couple of your issues:

1) REGRET: It is so brutal, right? I was doing OK (not hilariously happy every day, but kind of "normal" for me) and decided to finally quit the SSRI completely. The ensuing period has been, at times, totally hellish. If only I hadn't done that, if only I hadn't made that decision! It feels like my situation is entirely my fault. But somebody on this site pointed out to me that really there are a bunch of factors that have lead here, and lots of people responsible including doctors, drug companies, politicians, researchers, etc. And: what does guilt/regret do? It sure as hell doesn't help much. About a year ago my wife had an accident that caused her right hand to be crushed, and it was in a sense mostly her fault. But somehow she managed not to go into a tailspin of beating herself up about it, and that is impressive. People do things with very good intentions and acting on the best information they have, and things sometimes still go wrong (car crashes, etc). This is not unique to SSRI takers, and we have to come to accept it and not beat ourselves up about a fact of nature.

 

Plus: Remember that your emotions at the moment are themselves partly "chemical" in nature. Your (understandable, normal) regret and guilt can be blown out of all proportion by your current stressed condition. Somehow it helps to remember that our emotions are not entirely our own here.

 

2) SLEEP:

Oh lord. Let me tell you. I know what you are talking about. However, I have to also tell you this: I SLEPT FOR 8 HOURS LAST NIGHT! After two really absurdly bad nights (though maybe not as bad as what you just posted), I somehow had an almost normal night last night and now feel downright celebratory. I don't say this as a boast or something, but just to point out that THINGS DO CHANGE. I'm totally, completely familiar with the sense that there is NO hope, that things will NEVER be better. And though I'm not qualified to comment on your situation specifically, it seems that almost everybody on this site can attest to the fact that THINGS DO IMPROVE EVENTUALLY. Honestly, they rarely suddenly get all better forever all at once - recovery here will be a process - but you won't feel like this forever. You really won't. It might seem to push you past your levels of endurance, but it WILL change.

 

One thing I've learned here is that we're dealing with (the central nervous system and brain) is something extremely complex and "overdetermined" (multiples causes). It can be very difficult to figure out what what is causing what, and why things change. Why does healing tend to happen in the "windows and waves" pattern? (look it up if you don't know). Why do people suddenly have several really good days in a row, only to have symptoms reappear? It is all a bit of a mystery, and this can make you feel POWERLESS.

 

But there are two things to take from this: Firstly, the mysterious change can work to your advantage. Without you doing a damn thing, you might suddenly have a really good night tonight. Seriously. I did. I'm a human, just like you. From this chaos there is at least an element of hope.

 

Secondly: I think it can be very helpful to assert some form form of control over this sense of powerlessness. For me, and for others, this means scrupulously documenting symptoms and recovery. Maybe it is just a little journal, maybe it is an enormously complex spreadsheet (there's a excel file you can adapt somewhere on this site). But by keeping track of stuff like food, exercise, sleep, symptoms, drugs and supplements we can not only slowly start to see some patterns and get a sense of what works and what doesn't, but also take a certain amount of control back. Don't get obsessive about it (I think that's also a danger), but take some control back by becoming your own best doctor.

 

I've got to get going here, but I guess it might be worth saying something about drugs and sleep. I'm pretty sure most of the experts on the site are against the use of drugs to help sleep, and I think you sound like you want to avoid drugs as much as possible. This makes a lot of sense for LOTS of very good reasons. I know a fair bit about sleep, and I know that drug-induced sleep isn't nearly as helpful and high-quality as natural sleep (this has been well proven). And you don't want to go and get yourself addicted to some new drug, particularly if your system is totally compromised. So care is warranted. Yet perhaps the occasional use of a sleep-aid might help you with this particular moment of crisis? If you are in the US or Canada, you can likely buy an over-the-counter type drug. I use something called "Nytol", which is (to the best of my knowledge) an antihistamine, the same sort of thing people take for allergies and colds. Again, not a long-term solution, but that type of medication might be a relatively safe option, compared with getting a prescription for Zopiclone. Oh yeah, I also think I had SOME help getting to sleep with the herbal Valerian. There was actually a little cocktail of herbs, but valerian was the main ingredient. Doesn't necessarily keep me asleep, but helps me to fall asleep. Melatonin can be helpful too, but it is much more about setting your body clock. It doesn't exactly make you sleepy, but it helps tell the other functions of your body to go to sleep-mode. Likewise, it is really important to try to have some sort of "regular" day rhythm (don't stay in bed til noon, or sit in front of the computer till 3am). Get outdoors into some daylight, get some exercise (whatever level you can manage), eat healthy stuff at regular intervals and wind down when the sun goes down. All obvious stuff, but it does contribute. Speaking of which, i need to get outside for some exercise. 

 

HANG IN THERE! THINGS WILL CHANGE!

[HardTimes]

Oh yeah - about family. It TOTALLY sucks not to have people understand, or to have them think it is "all in your head". Some of my family likely worry that I'm getting my advice from (what they see as) a bunch of sketchy people on the internet rather than from an experienced psychiatrist. Because they care about me, they want me on the "right" drugs, as determined by a proper doctor. On the other hand, I've got family who want me off this "poison" altogether and think I'm crazy to even think about reinstating. And there are people on this site who will tell you that their WD contributed to them losing their relationships, their family, all sorts of stuff, so you are not alone.

 

One source of comfort though is this site itself (and there are possibly others sites or support groups as well to seek out). I think it is amazing that there are a bunch of total strangers out there who are willing to give up lots of their time to read about and comment on my situation. WE GET IT! It sucks that your family and friends don't, but there are people that do.

 

I don't know what your people are like, but you might try introducing them to some articles on withdrawal syndrome. There's a decent (LONG!) article from the New Yorker in 2019 that spends a bit too much time talking about one woman's experience, but towards the end there is useful information that might help convince your people that what you are going through is a real, documented thing. Also I just read something in the Guardian that might do the same thing:

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/may/30/antidepressant-withdrawal-symptoms-doctors-side-effects

 

And you can likely search for some others.

 

You're not alone! Hang in there!

[ChessieCat]

On 9/2/2020 at 8:30 AM, ADRecovery said:

take 30 mg of Melatonin but nothing happens

 

As Gridley said that is a very large dose of melatonin.  Sometimes what happens is that taking too much actually works the opposite, which is called a paradoxical reaction.  So instead of it helping you sleep it can wake you up.

 

On 9/2/2020 at 8:30 AM, ADRecovery said:

The worst part about this is I feel that I have no support from my family because they think this is all in my head and it is hard to go through something so difficult without people understanding.

 

helping-family-understand

 

withdrawal-dialogues-encouragement

 

[ADRecovery]

Thanks for your advice guys. I am just so scared I will never get my sexuality and emotions back. My PSSD is severe and that has really been weighing on me recently. I have been off of everything for over a month with no windows just complete impotence, shrinkage, and no libido. I am so young and I want to feel attracted to someone again and love. It was moderate at first with a couple windows but as I said I exacerbated it after it led me into a deep depression by taking more medication kindling myself when I was in a hypersensitive state which I will always regret. 

[ADRecovery]

I tried a smaller dose of Melatonin but it had Vitamin B6 in it, a methyl donor, that crashed me hard. I do not feel like a human anymore just a robot looking in on my life with no joy, cognitive abilities, or sexuality. Does anyone have any advice, the days are getting so long and hard?

[ADRecovery]

Update I still feel awful and not to be a pessimist but am somewhat hopeless about my own case. I was on the meds too young and went on and off too many times until something just snapped in my brain it feels like. Everyday I wake up and it is so surreal I cannot believe my sexuality and ability to feel pleasure have been taken away from me 22 years old on top of all the strange physical symptoms that are just a reminder something is very off.

[Istm]

Hi @ADRecovery I’m no expert in withdrawal but I saw your thread and just wanted to let you know that I completely feel you. I have a very similar case. I was put on ADs by my parents at 13 and now I’m 18 and dealing with many of the issues you are dealing with. I also feel as if everything I’ve work in my life has been striped away from me. I feel as if my soul has been taken away from me. I also feel extreme regret and anger for being put on ADs. But regret doesn’t help. You obviously didn’t knew this, you where trusting your doctors because that’s what we’re taught to do. I also just want my sexuality, cognition and love for life back... and I know how hard feeling this is. It’s extremely hard. But know that you are not alone and that with time things get better. Really, just give it time, it doesn’t help to be obsessing about symptoms (I know it’s hard not to tho) But try not to research too much about symptoms and trust that you’re healing, even if you can’t feel it now. You are far from alone. It will get better.

[ADRecovery]

Hi @istm this is hell on Earth, I don't even feel hunger or tiredness properly anymore. Just periods between feeling irate, I feel like I have been given a life sentence in solitary confinement for a crime I did not commit.

[Erell]

13 hours ago, ADRecovery said:

t am somewhat hopeless about my own case. I was on the meds too young 

 

This is something I've thought many times : I was too young when I started meds, my brain is damaged.

But I don't think so now : there are a lot of Success Stories out there, and many people were very young when they started meds.

It can take time, but yes people tend to get better ☀️

 

I'll share some examples : 

 

* Julia started meds when she was 5, and is now enjoying life : julia955-healing-and-happiness-is-possible/

 

* Dave tried many medication since his teen years and is now thinking about writing a Success Story (can't wait to read it! ) : -ten0275-im-dave-and-im-almost-there/

 

* Irishwill started meds when he was a teenager, and is one of my favourite Success Stories : -irishwill-2015-extremely-positive-and-long-overdue-update/

 

* An amazing woman called Shep started meds at the age of 17 and took many of them on and off during 30 years...and yet she wrote a powerfull and beautifull Success Story : sheps-success-leaving-platos-cave/

 

 

 

 

and the list goes on....

 

Take care 

 

 

[Istm]

11 hours ago, Erell said:

 

But I don't think so now : there are a lot of Success Stories out there, and many people were very young when they started meds.

Yes! Also google: Laura Delano, she was put on them at 13/14 I believe and is now healed. Also look at Kiaza’s success story here on SA, really encouraging

[Istm]

hi ADRecovery, how have you been?

[ADRecovery]

I am horrible how can drugs do this my one life and my mom has to poison me **** God help me

[ADRecovery]

Does it really get better for all people? I really feel that my CNS has been permanently altered this is a cruel joke I was not even depressed or suicidal when I went on antidepressants just a little anxious.

[Shrike]

Hey @ADRecovery. Hang in there man. I experienced a lot of these types of thoughts and feelings (still do to some degree). I don't know about 'everyone' but I can tell you that I was severely 'damaged' by all the psych drugs and I've gotten a lot better. To give you some idea, I didn't really sleep for over 3 years. There was no silver bullet for me, it was just pure time to heal. I think a couple of supplements did help as well, namely magnesium and fish oil.

 

I am too am absolutely 'worse off' than when I started the drugs, cognition and aphasia is still frustrating, but after 3.5 years, I'll say that I am mostly returned to the real me. Lots of scars to continue healing from but at least I am 'awake' now and truly experiencing life versus zombie-ing through it. 

[Ariel]

Hello @ADRecovery

How are you doing?

Best wishes,

A.