Shelton: withdrawal from short term amitriptyline and nortriptyline use, Celexa previously

[Shelton]

I just wanted to update everyone - the symptoms are relentless but I am journaling every day and will post them once it’s accumulated over a couple of days like @manymoretodays suggested. I just recently started dealing with akathisia that is unbearable but just trying to cope and use calming techniques that @ChessieCat sent! 
 

I think Alto got extremely frustrated with me (understandably so as I was panicking) so I don’t know if I should do what she told me to do with the Ativan twice a day and try to stabilize there or if I should stay put at 3 times a day at this point. @Shep, @manymoretodays, @Frogie, @ChessieCat - do you have an input on this? My drug signature is correct. 
 

Thank you all for hanging in here with me. I have learned to accept that this is what I have to go through like many of you regardless of how hard it truly is.

[Shelton]

12 hours ago, Mia1 said:

In the beginning I worried about EVERYTHING and that made everything SO much worse. I have my current symptoms listed in my thread but we definitely have similar issues. I’m still not stable, it’s only been 2 months since the Amitriptyline change, but I am definitely functional. I had been coping with a lot of peri menopausal symptoms prior to this happening so also understand the challenges hormones play in this process. It took me MONTHS to realize it didn’t matter if it was withdrawal, peri menopause or me, this was the situation and I had to deal with it. This is where mindfulness comes in. If you have time try looking into it, it will help with anxiety and is a great life skill.

If you start reading something that triggers you stop reading it, period. You are only feeding your anxiety doing that. Understand so much of recovery is your perspective of it. I don’t say this lightly, it’s hard and you have a baby! You have to start somewhere though so you might as well start today.  Visualize yourself being completely healed, put yourself in that feeling. It’s also a great meditation. Imagine a white light going in your head and every part of your body and picture it calming your mind while healing your body and mind. I learned this from the hypnotist I was seeing and it helped me tremendously.

You are so right! Worrying once withdrawal symptoms hit sent me into a complete spiral! Acceptance has been hard for me to handle but since accepting over the last 24 hours, I have handled the anxiety much much better. Viewing it as just something I have to learn to deal with right now, no matter how hard it is. I have 3 symptoms that are unbearable - akathisia, severe insomnia, irritability/sensitivity to sounds. I am trying to cope with these symptoms but having a hard time. It’s hard because you accept how you’re feeling one day, you get another symptom and it feels like you’re back to square one with coping. It’s hard but I’m learning. I’m young and in the beginning of it all - it’s hard. I hope you stabilize soon and start feeling well!

 

12 hours ago, Mia1 said:

As for your doctor I don’t know what to say expect she’s just realizing these medications are addicting? It’s ridiculous. Just stay consistent with your medication and continue to try to work with her on stabilizing. You really can do this!!

Exactly!!! I met with her today (have to continuously follow up since she’s so crazy about the ativan and getting off) and she wanted me to cut a dose. I talked to her about the Ashton Taper Method and asked if I could do a symptom based withdrawal. She loved the idea and agreed that would work best. She did ask me to do my first cut this Wednesday (HUH? I’m not even stable) and then meet with her again in 3 weeks. She doesn’t agree that I’m in withdrawal from Celexa - I pretend like I’m not in withdrawal or in a bad place so she doesn’t try to throw more medication at me.

 

How are your doctors about your medication? Hopefully not as bad as mine!

[Shelton]

On 9/26/2020 at 11:43 AM, manymoretodays said:

 

I just know you didn't like the Valium via the vaginal route.  And it may be no easier getting your doctor on board with that.  If you do, the Valium cross-over, stick with your doctor and hope for the best, then keep us updated.  I expect your doctor wouldn't have it any other way anyway.   Don't demand immediate answers, or for us to make your decisions for you. 

 

You might do okay with shifting some of the mid-day dose to the pm, or to the am, like Alto suggested......but it's impossible to even attempt to guide you with the frequent changes, then partial notes, etc.  And no weights yet to work with.

 

Hi @manymoretodays! I hope you were able to enjoy yourself and I hope you’re feeling okay. 
 

I had my appointment with my doctor today. I pretended like I was doing great so she would stop suggesting other drugs (which has always confused me more). She wanted me to go back to not having my middle dose of ativan - this is when I mentioned the Ashton Taper Method again. I asked her if I could do a “patient controlled symptom based withdrawal” and she said yes! She wants me to do my first cut Wednesday and then meet with her in 3 weeks. I’m obviously not going to cut based off of instructions here unless you guys tell me otherwise. 
 

On 9/26/2020 at 11:09 AM, manymoretodays said:

And planning on a minimum of 6 months to 2 years for your Ativan/lorazepam stabilization/taper and then WD........it may be more than that.  We can't give you exacts.  It took me a little over 2 years to come off of my 2 drugs, after a precipitous Lexapro taper/cold turkey. 

 

There are no short cuts, or quicker ways.  

The schedule you got, looks okay, as far as I can tell.......based on equivalencies of Valium to Ativan from https://www.benzo.org.uk/bzequiv.htm

But I wonder if you are prepared to go through a transition like that. 

You get all prepared for a change, and then manage to stick with it, for exactly 2 or 3 days.......so I am dubious.

And:

Valium has a lot longer half life and will build up over time, so that you might get frustrated with your benzo-fication, so to speak, as well as WD symptoms, just like you have been, and then want to do something different.  And as yet, I'm not sure you can stick with much beyond the panic, call your doctor,  change your benzo dosing, rinse and repeat.

Valium is 100% off the table. I don’t want to change drugs yet again. I do not know how long she will allow me to do this slow Ativan taper. She thinks I’m doing my first cut Wednesday and then I have to meet with her again in 3 weeks. She said if at any point I’m still experiencing withdrawal symptoms, I can hold. So that gave me hope she’ll let me control the taper duration. 
 

I know you wanted the weight of my ativan. The .5mg full tablet is .0528grams. I weighed 5 tablets (.264grams) and divided by 5 to get this number.

 

Again, hope you’re doing so well. I have been journaling but wanted to wait until I had more days/notes like you suggested.

 

[ChessieCat]

SA is a very busy site.  Please stop tagging the moderators.  The moderators regularly check member introduction topics and respond as they are able to.

[Shelton]

2 hours ago, ChessieCat said:

SA is a very busy site.  Please stop tagging the moderators.  The moderators regularly check member introduction topics and respond as they are able to.

I’m sorry. I’m still trying to learn how this works. I tried to remove the tags but it wouldn’t let me. I obviously can’t do anything right on here.

[Shep]

7 hours ago, Shelton said:

She doesn’t agree that I’m in withdrawal from Celexa - I pretend like I’m not in withdrawal or in a bad place so she doesn’t try to throw more medication at me.

 

This just came out from the Royal Collage of Psychiatry (which is comparable to the American Psychiatric Association here in the US):

 

Stopping antidepressants

 

Quote

What symptoms might you experience when stopping antidepressants and how severe can they be? The NICE guidelines suggest that for some, withdrawal symptoms can be mild and go away relatively quickly, without the need for any help. Other people can have more severe symptoms which last much longer (sometimes months or more). 

 

You may want to print out this document and give it to your doctor. 

 

Are you still taking Dexilant? If so, please post it in your drug and symptoms journal. 

 

Dexilant is a PPI which can cause vitamin deficiencies, especially B12. I wouldn't make any changes to it right now, but if you decide to come off it in the future, it also will need to be tapered. You may want to go ahead and read a bit about it here and see if there are some dietary changes you could make - Tips for tapering off stomach acid blockers or PPIs... A clean diet will not only help you get through withdrawal, it will help if you decide to taper off the PPI. 

 

 

On 9/18/2020 at 3:03 PM, Shelton said:

Can I change it to 8:30am, 4:30pm and 12:30am (usually up with the baby at 12:30)? I take .125mg 3 times a day. I HATE taking the Ativan - I don’t feel like I need it and they make me so sleepy. I’m assuming I still need to hold on them though?

 

 

On 9/20/2020 at 3:15 PM, Shelton said:

Slept okay throughout the night – accidentally slept through the 5:30am dose of Ativan

 

 

On 9/21/2020 at 3:19 PM, Shelton said:

I try to go to bed around 9. Can I change my schedule to:

8:00am - .125mg Ativan

9:30am - .5mg Celexa

8:00pm - .125mg Ativan

 

On 9/24/2020 at 7:42 PM, Shelton said:

I definitely had brutal withdrawal symptoms removing the middle dose for a day. 

 

Shelton, I've pulled a few of your recent posts which may seem a bit random, but I think they're telling a story. 

 

You're between a rock and a hard place. When you take .125 mg three times a day (a total of .375 mg), you feel overly sedated and were even sleeping through a dose. When you dropped the middle dose, you felt withdrawal. However, you only stuck with that schedule for one day. So whether or not it would have worked, we don't know. 

 

You also are waking up in the middle of the night to care for a baby. So your middle of the night wake ups may be less about Ativan and more about being a caretaker. Something you'll have to work around by doing as much self-care as you can. 

 

I would stick to dosing .125 mg Ativan three times a day and give yourself time to stabilize. Rest when you can and do as much self care as you can. 

 

 

[Shelton]

49 minutes ago, Shep said:

Are you still taking Dexilant? If so, please post it in your drug and symptoms journal. 

 

Dexilant is a PPI which can cause vitamin deficiencies, especially B12. I wouldn't make any changes to it right now, but if you decide to come off it in the future, it also will need to be tapered. You may want to go ahead and read a bit about it here and see if there are some dietary changes you could make - Tips for tapering off stomach acid blockers or PPIs... A clean diet will not only help you get through withdrawal, it will help if you decide to taper off the PPI. 

Yes! I’ve taken it for years - if I miss a dose, I get so sick. I will start looking at advice on tapering that as I had no idea that needed to be tapered!

 

52 minutes ago, Shep said:

Shelton, I've pulled a few of your recent posts which may seem a bit random, but I think they're telling a story. 

 

You're between a rock and a hard place. When you take .125 mg three times a day (a total of .375 mg), you feel overly sedated and were even sleeping through a dose. When you dropped the middle dose, you felt withdrawal. However, you only stuck with that schedule for one day. So whether or not it would have worked, we don't know.

Yes, I regret immediately going back to 3 times a day without giving it a chance. When I was in so much pain and didn’t sleep at all that night, it scared me that I jumped to low. The last couple of nights, even at .125mg 3 times a day, I am not sleeping but around 2-4 hours. Even when my husband takes baby duty. I have no idea what’s causing it but obviously makes withdrawal symptoms worse. I am also on my menstrual cycle so I will put that in notes, as well. 
 

55 minutes ago, Shep said:

You also are waking up in the middle of the night to care for a baby. So your middle of the night wake ups may be less about Ativan and more about being a caretaker. Something you'll have to work around by doing as much self-care as you can. 

Definitely. Although I’m awake way more than him but if I do fall asleep and he wakes up, I have immediate adrenaline surges and can’t go back to sleep. I am really really trying to do self care.

 

56 minutes ago, Shep said:

I would stick to dosing .125 mg Ativan three times a day and give yourself time to stabilize. Rest when you can and do as much self care as you can

Thank you, Shep. I will stick to this and try to stabilize. Withdrawal symptoms (assuming from Celexa and insomnia) are worse than they’ve ever been but I’m staying as strong and consistent as I can.

 

When you had insomnia, did magnesium or melatonin work for you? I may try magnesium tonight to see if that helps any. I will post my notes shortly.

 

Thank you so much for your help. 

[Shelton]

Saturday 09/27

10:00pm-12:00am - very light sleep - woke up with bad anxiety, insomnia, muscle twitches in legs, flu like symptoms - awful night. Did not sleep well.

5:30am - Ativan - .125mg - increased anxiety after taking, heart racing - finally calmed down

6:00am-6:30am - light sleep with nightmares

6:30am - woke up with bad anxiety - internal uneasiness and despair, hungover feeling, twitches in legs

7:00am - 9:00am - shortness of breath, bad anxiety, fatigue, chest pain, can’t move much without feeling so sick
9:00am - Dexilant and Probiotic

9:30am - Celexa .5mg

10:00am-1:00pm - shortness of breath, bad anxiety, fatigue, chest pain, can’t move much without feeling so sick, sensitivity to sound, very irritable to where my skin crawls

1:00pm - symptoms calmed down

1:30pm - Ativan .125mg

2:00pm-3:30pm - Still feeling a bit better

4:00pm-9:00pm - bad anxiety, exhausted, body aches and pains, flu like symptoms, BAD irritability and sensitivity to noises

9:30pm - Ativan .125mg

Sunday 09/28

Rough night with about 3 hours sleep broken up. Slept 11:00pm-1:00am and 2:30am-3:30am

5:30am - Ativan .125mg
6:00am-12:00pm - bad anxiety, hungover feeling, flu like symptoms, chest pain, weakness, irritability, legs and arms ache and pain (almost like my skin hurts)

9:00am - Dexilant and Probiotic

9:30am - Celexa .5mg
12:00pm - sat outside for a bit. Felt very weak, still dealing with bad pain all over like my skin hurts, chemical anxiety bad, no appetite

1:30pm- Ativan .125mg

2:00pm - Symptoms calmed down some but still very irritable and sounds make my skin hurt crawl.
3:00pm-9:00pm - My muscles hurt so bad and aches and pains throughout my body (mostly arms and legs) are awful. Very irritable and sounds make my skin hurt and crawl.

9:30pm Ativan .125mg

 

Monday 09/29

Slept away from baby (husband helped) and still only got 2 1/2 hours sleep. I fell asleep around 1:00am-2:30am and again 3:00am-4:00am

5:30am - Ativan .125mg

STARTED PERIOD

8:30am - feeling SO anxious, full of fear, have moments of deep despair that starts in my chest and overwhelms my body, deep body pains especially in arms and legs, feels close to akathisia which scares me a lot

9:00am - Dexilant and Probiotic

9:30am - Celexa .5mg

10:00am - 12:30pm - bad chemical anxiety, chest pain, flu like symptoms, weakness, moments of deep despair that starts in my chest and overwhelms my body, deep body pains especially in arms and legs

1:30pm - Ativan .125mg

2:30pm-6:30pm - deep body pains and restlessness - tried to get out and do things to try and not think about it (baby’s doc appt, sat outside, rode with husband to store, picked up groceries and food)
7:30pm-8:30pm - crashes. Worst I’ve felt so far. Extreme irritability to where I had to lay alone in a dark room, skin crawling and muscle and skin pain so bad I couldn’t stand it, crying out, feeling like I have the flu

9:30pm - Ativan .125

10:00pm - husband had baby, I still couldn’t sleep. Slept from 1:00am-2:30am

5:30am - Ativan .125mg - heart racing/chemical anxiety, jerks — feel so hungover - air hunger, nothing helps

 

Important to note - I have always been someone who if I didn’t get a lot of sleep, I was very physically sick. I’m not sure if that’s factoring into how bad my symptoms have become. Also, I started my period although these symptoms weren’t this bad last month.
 

Right now, I’m worse than I’ve ever been. Between physical pains, severe irritability to where I can’t handle any light or sounds without getting so angry, I’m getting really scared. How does everyone on here live like this?

[Mia1]

I’m so sorry you’re going through this, and with a new baby. I really feel for you. The first months are the hardest, it only gets better no matter how slow the progress may seem. Your sleep will get better, rest as much as you can and remind yourself to relax. I think for me managing the anxiety was key. Nothing is ever as bad as my mind tries to tell me it is. If you aren’t already try to walk a little every day outside. You are okay and you are not alone.

[Shelton]

4 hours ago, Mia1 said:

I’m so sorry you’re going through this, and with a new baby. I really feel for you. The first months are the hardest, it only gets better no matter how slow the progress may seem. Your sleep will get better, rest as much as you can and remind yourself to relax. I think for me managing the anxiety was key. Nothing is ever as bad as my mind tries to tell me it is. If you aren’t already try to walk a little every day outside. You are okay and you are not alone.

Thank you so much Mia. Today is my worst day yet - I feel so awful I can’t even explain it. How am I ever supposed to get through this? I wonder if this is just withdrawal, if this is a failed reinstatement of the AD or if I’ve hit tolerance on Ativan. I really can’t tell and I don’t know what to do. How do you go on being so sick? This is so inhumane what we all have to endure. 

[ChessieCat]

8 hours ago, Shelton said:

When you had insomnia, did magnesium or melatonin work for you? I may try magnesium tonight to see if that helps any.

 

Adding or subtracting anything, changing doses, whilst providing daily symptom notes makes it very difficult to assess the notes.  If you take something new and you improve or worsen, then it can be difficult to know what has caused the change.

 

 

[Shelton]

19 hours ago, ChessieCat said:

 

Adding or subtracting anything, changing doses, whilst providing daily symptom notes makes it very difficult to assess the notes.  If you take something new and you improve or worsen, then it can be difficult to know what has caused the change.

 

 

Thank you ChessieCat - I haven’t added or changed anything. Feeling worst than I’ve ever felt. I’m on my period so I’m hoping this is just a really bad wave even though I’m so new to this so I can’t tell. 

[manymoretodays]

On 9/28/2020 at 10:18 PM, Shelton said:

I know you wanted the weight of my ativan. The .5mg full tablet is .0528grams. I weighed 5 tablets (.264grams) and divided by 5 to get this number.

 

Copy this ^ Shelton. 

And so, when you feel ready to crush your tablets, store all of the crushed contents in a clean, dry bottle, with the exception of what you put in your capsules.

Definitely simplest to put each 0.125 mg dose into one of the capsules.

More about techniques here:  Using a digital scale to measure doses

 

An old prescription bottle would work really well, one that's fairly small, for the powder, one with that orangy tint to it, to protect contents from light.

You may want to have 2 bottles for storage, one for your filled capsules, and one for any additional crushed Ativan, so that we waste nothing. 

Wash them well and air dry and then label them carefully.

 

Before you start, do your best to just read through the link......it's a long one.......and perhaps note take, paying specific attention to crushed pills/tablets information.  We/ you are not tapering yet......just HOLDING steady with those 3 doses of 0.125 Ativan and 1 dose of 0.5 mg Celexa...........working on NOTES, while getting through your period, TOM(time of month).  I always used to feel much better shortly after the follicular phase(period) commenced......AND I've been doing my brief refresher course on the Menstrual Cycle here:

Menstrual Cycle- Women's Health Issues- Merck Manuals Consumer Version

Please be cautious right now too Shelton.......as far as conception goes.  That would throw a monkey wrench into your stabilization right now too and be really overwhelming, I would expect.

 

And okay......back to your scale and measurements:

 

Your scale only reads to 3 numbers past the decimal point, and so we have to do some rounding up from that .0008 which results in:

.5 mg ai(ai stands for active ingredient or dose strength)  becomes equivalent to .053 gm(I rounded up from the .0528 gm) on your scale.  This is the same as 53 mg by weight, which we'll call 53 mgpw

(with the pw standing for pill weight)

I'm using gm for grams too, when talking about your scale readout capacities.

 

So now, with this batch of 0.5 mgai equivalent to 53 mgpw.......can you do the math and divide by 4?  This gives you an approximation of your current .125 mg dose, that you presently take 3 times a day, at consistent times.   Easiest is to just divide the 53 mgpw by 4.

 

Don't look yet........

 

and okay here is what I got:  53 mgpw divided by 4 =  13.25 mgpw

Each 13.25 mgpw is now equivalent to a  0.125 mg dose or mgai.

On your scale the readout would be  0.013 grams(rounded down on this one). 

 

I'm going to stop there.  I think Frogie will be really helpful too, with tips on weighing and also TLC.

I'm just giving you lesson 1.  To look at and study and all.

 

S'okay.  I'm doing great Shelton.  Probably back on break again here off and on......as we move into fall/winter.  That's just how I seem to roll here.  Have a good weekend!

 

And hugs.

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

 

[manymoretodays]

Hi sweetie,

I am also interested in how you are managing?

Update soon. 

signed: mmt, your withdrawal Mum or something.....❤️

 

[Shelton]

18 hours ago, manymoretodays said:

Hi sweetie,

I am also interested in how you are managing?

Update soon. 

signed: mmt, your withdrawal Mum or something.....❤️

 

Hey @manymoretodays ! Thank you so much for reaching out. I stayed away because I felt like such a burden after upsetting everyone. I feel like I am starting to stabilize. My period made things much worse but once that was over, I started what I feel like may be a window. The main symptoms I have now are just not feeling like myself (irritable, not loving things I loved before, anxiety/internal uneasiness, fatigue). I’m not sure if Ativan is contributing to the problem and really not sure when to start tapering. 
 

Do I wait until I feel 100% normal to start tapering? I already have a plan in place to water microtaper very slowly once the time is right. I just feel like it’s the gentlest option. Any suggestions/opinions on that?
 

I hope you are doing well!

[Shep]

13 hours ago, Shelton said:

Do I wait until I feel 100% normal to start tapering? I already have a plan in place to water microtaper very slowly once the time is right. I just feel like it’s the gentlest option. Any suggestions/opinions on that?

 

This is a great post on what's called "withdrawal normal" that may help:

 

WDNormal

 

You want to be sleeping enough hours and able to get through the day without too many struggles before you start tapering.

 

Also, since you know your period makes everything worse, you'll want to set up your taper so you can hold during this time and only taper when you're at your strongest. 

[Shelton]

23 hours ago, Shep said:

This is a great post on what's called "withdrawal normal" that may help:

 

WDNormal

 
Wow, this helps a lot. I do think I have found my “WD Normal.” At least, I’m hoping that’s what this is. It’s been a week and 2 days that I’ve been steady. Not 100% but able to function which is a blessing at this point.

 

23 hours ago, Shep said:

You want to be sleeping enough hours and able to get through the day without too many struggles before you start tapering.

 

Also, since you know your period makes everything worse, you'll want to set up your taper so you can hold during this time and only taper when you're at your strongest. 

I am sleeping well and not too many struggles throughout the day if I’m staying busy and listening to how I feel. I was thinking about staying where I’m at for a week or so to make sure I’m steady at “WD Normal” and then start microtapering. 
 

Great idea about holding when I start my period!

 

Quick question - with microtapering, how will I know if I need to hold or is it pretty much just a steady taper no matter what?

 

Thank you so much, Shep!

[Shep]

3 hours ago, Shelton said:

Quick question - with microtapering, how will I know if I need to hold or is it pretty much just a steady taper no matter what?

 

You may want to look into the Brassmonkey Slide:

 

The Brassmonkey Slide Method of Micro-tapering

 

Quote

The basic Brassmonkey Slide Method consists of four (4) weekly reductions of 2.5% in a row with an additional two (2) week hold.  This gives a total reduction of 10% ever six (6) weeks.  Although it isn’t the standard reduction plan it is very close.  The extra two (2) week hold is very necessary to let the cumulative effects of the four (4) reductions settle out and things return to baseline before attempting the next reduction.

 

You can, of course, adjust this so you're holding longer than 2 weeks if needed, as well as reducing the taper rate from 2.5% weekly (for a 10% per month taper) to say, 1.25% weekly (for a 5% per month taper). 

 

3 hours ago, Shelton said:

I am sleeping well and not too many struggles throughout the day if I’m staying busy and listening to how I feel. I was thinking about staying where I’m at for a week or so to make sure I’m steady at “WD Normal” and then start microtapering. 

 

You may want to hold through another period and see what your baseline is when you're going through the most difficult time. If you can build up a more solid foundation before you begin tapering, the easier it will be in the long run.

 

Just a thought, Shelton. You were struggling so much so recently. Please don't rush this. Give your nervous system a good month or more to rest before asking more of it. 

 

In the meantime, you could research the Brassmonkey Slide and make sure you have what you need to taper. 

 

And enjoy feeling better for awhile. The goal isn't just to be drug free, but to be as functional as possible and able to live your life. 

[manymoretodays]

On 10/7/2020 at 2:33 PM, Shelton said:

Do I wait until I feel 100% normal to start tapering? I already have a plan in place to water microtaper very slowly once the time is right. I just feel like it’s the gentlest option. Any suggestions/opinions on that?

 

I'm a fan of liquid tapers Shelton. And, you might want to revisit getting the:

Lorazepam Liquid

And then use the syringes that measure in the hundredths of a mL.  I think you had found some, that measured in the .02- .08 of a mL.

It's highly concentrated at 2 mg in each 1 mL .

But then you could further dilute  1 or 2 mL with water, to get the doses you'd be needing.

 

You had said your insurance covered it, and the pharmacy reassured you that it would keep for quite some time.

 

If not that, we can go over making your own when that time comes.

 

I honestly don't know which would make for a smoother transition.  You will need to "cross-over" when you go to liquid too.  To go from solid form to liquid with a gradual transition, without tapering during that time frame.

 

And yes, agree with Shep......HOLD through another cycle, so you feel clear about when the menstrual stuff hits.......it's usually worse before the onset of menses.  But, hey, anything goes right now as your hormones attempt to normalize after all the changes of pregnancy, birth, and post partum.  Not to mention, the disruption in hormones that the whole Lexapro to Celexa fiasco created.  All systems are affected with these drugs and intense changes to them.

 

And oh, so glad to hear your feeling minimally a bit more stable. 

 

Is the PGAD resolved?

 

Best sweetie,

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

 

 

 

Edited October 9, 2020 by manymoretodays

[Shelton]

4 hours ago, Shep said:

You can, of course, adjust this so you're holding longer than 2 weeks if needed, as well as reducing the taper rate from 2.5% weekly (for a 10% per month taper) to say, 1.25% weekly (for a 5% per month taper). 

 

Oh wow! This is not what I was thinking I was supposed to do. I thought with a benzo I was supposed to drop a tiny bit each day to avoid the drastic drop. I attached a spreadsheet and word doc of what I prepared. So I should be doing a 2.5% cut every 4 weeks and then holding 2 weeks?

 

So it would look more like:

.12

 

2.5% of .375mg = .365mg - Week 1

2.5% of .365mg = .356mg - Week 2

2.5% of .356mg = .347mg - Week 3

2.5% of .347mg = .338mg - Week 4

HOLD 2 WEEKS AT .338mg

 

The only thing that worries me about this is that it is a long taper. The only thing that worries me about a long taper with the Ativan is that it makes me feel awful taking it. I have bad rebound anxiety, fatigue and weakness each time I take it. My morning doses, I have heart racing for 30 minutes. With this taper, it would last 2 years when I have never felt "good" on it - does that sound right?

 

5 hours ago, Shep said:

You may want to hold through another period and see what your baseline is when you're going through the most difficult time. If you can build up a more solid foundation before you begin tapering, the easier it will be in the long run.

 

I definitely agree with this! Good idea. Thank you!

 

5 hours ago, Shep said:

And enjoy feeling better for awhile. The goal isn't just to be drug free, but to be as functional as possible and able to live your life.

 

A part of me feels like I won't feel better while I'm on the Ativan since it makes me feel so rough. I just fear that I've developed a tolerance and that it's making me feel worse, for some reason.

 

1 hour ago, manymoretodays said:

I'm a fan of liquid tapers Shelton. And, you might want to revisit getting the:

Lorazepam Liquid

And then use the syringes that measure in the hundredths of a mL.  I think you had found some, that measured in the .02- .08 of a mL.

It's highly concentrated at 2 mg in each 1 mL .

But then you could further dilute  1 or 2 mL with water, to get the doses you'd be needing.

 

You had said your insurance covered it, and the pharmacy reassured you that it would keep for quite some time.

 

If not that, we can go over making your own when that time comes.

 

I tried that with my doctor. Unfortunately, she wouldn't prescribe it. She is pushing the Ativan taper and doesn't understand as much as I would like her to. I finally got her to agree with the "symptom based taper" but that was with the thought of the daily reduction or "quicker taper" before I knew the suggestion would take 2 years. There is no way she will allow me to taper for 2 years - I am now feeling very defeated.

 

1 hour ago, manymoretodays said:

And yes, agree with Shep......HOLD through another cycle, so you feel clear about when the menstrual stuff hits.......it's usually worse before the onset of menses.  But, hey, anything goes right now as your hormones attempt to normalize after all the changes of pregnancy, birth, and post partum.

And oh, so glad to hear your feeling minimally a bit more stable. 

 

Is the PGAD resolved?

 

PGAD is mostly resolved! I feel it every now and then but it is MINIMAL thank God. 

Taper.xlsx Shelton Taper Word Doc.docx

[Shep]

18 hours ago, Shelton said:

The only thing that worries me about a long taper with the Ativan is that it makes me feel awful taking it. I have bad rebound anxiety, fatigue and weakness each time I take it. My morning doses, I have heart racing for 30 minutes.

 

On 10/9/2020 at 5:40 AM, Shelton said:

I am sleeping well and not too many struggles throughout the day if I’m staying busy and listening to how I feel.

 

I'm a bit confused by the contrast of these two posts. September 29 was your last drug and symptoms journal, so I was thinking you were doing a lot better when you posted about sleeping well and not having a lot of daytime struggles. 

 

Are you still having bad daytime symptoms with anxiety, fatigue, weakness, and hearting racing? 

 

We definitely don't want to give you bad advice because we don't have all the information, so let us know how you're doing. You may even want to start writing out your daily symptoms journal again. 

[Shelton]

3 hours ago, Shep said:

 

 

I'm a bit confused by the contrast of these two posts. September 29 was your last drug and symptoms journal, so I was thinking you were doing a lot better when you posted about sleeping well and not having a lot of daytime struggles. 

 

Are you still having bad daytime symptoms with anxiety, fatigue, weakness, and hearting racing? 

 

We definitely don't want to give you bad advice because we don't have all the information, so let us know how you're doing. You may even want to start writing out your daily symptoms journal again. 

I’m sorry. I am at where I think is “withdrawal normal.” Maybe you can help me navigate what I’m feeling or where it’s coming from - side effects to Ativan or just withdrawal?

 

I have been feeling steady the same since Thursday, October 1st. I am able to get out of the house and function, I just feel “off” like I don’t feel well. My sleep is good - I wake up a couple times with some anxiety but fall back asleep. In the mornings, when I take my 5:30am Ativan, it makes my heart race for about 30 minutes and then I fall asleep. I wake up around 7-8am feeling SO hungover. Throughout the day I’m fatigued with not a lot of energy at all. I definitely have some chemical anxiety and irritability but I stay busy to try not to think about it. When I take the Ativan, I don’t feel like it does anything. It doesn’t calm me down and it doesn’t make me feel any better. It’s hard to tell if it’s making me feel worse because I’ve never felt “good” while taking the Ativan, I just took it because my doctor told me to (looking back, so stupid).

 

I am definitely in a much better place than I was in but can’t tell if the Ativan is holding me back from feeling better?

 

Nothing makes me feel better - I’m just at a steady feeling of crappy but not miserable, non functioning like I was. 
 

Does this make sense? 

[Shep]

Sometimes it helps to re-read your thread. That will refresh you on where you've been and may help you sort this out. 

 

Since you're holding for another month or so, you have time before making any more changes. 

 

On 9/29/2020 at 2:03 PM, Shelton said:

Today is my worst day yet - I feel so awful I can’t even explain it.

 

Since you're reporting feeling better than you were back in September, I don't the Ativan is making you worse. You may be getting some unpleasant side effects from it, but you're overall symptoms seem to have improved. 

 

Please post your thoughts. 

[Shelton]

7 hours ago, Shep said:

Sometimes it helps to re-read your thread. That will refresh you on where you've been and may help you sort this out. 

 

Since you're holding for another month or so, you have time before making any more changes. 

 

 

Since you're reporting feeling better than you were back in September, I don't the Ativan is making you worse. You may be getting some unpleasant side effects from it, but you're overall symptoms seem to have improved. 

 

Please post your thoughts. 

Thank you so much, Shep! You are right. I was doing “better” and the past 2 days have been brutal with chemical anxiety, migraines and irritability. The migraines are in the back of my head and go down my neck with burning - this just started Saturday. 
 

I definitely feel like I should hold for a month or so - I have emailed my doctor asking if this is acceptable and just praying she agrees.

 

Do you think the reinstatement of the Celexa is working? In rereading the reinstatement thread, it says sometimes an increase is necessary and sometimes it doesn’t work at all. How do I know what is the case for me?

[Frogie]

@Shelton

 

I just wanted to stop by and see how you were doing?

[manymoretodays]

On 10/12/2020 at 3:24 PM, Shelton said:

Do you think the reinstatement of the Celexa is working? In rereading the reinstatement thread, it says sometimes an increase is necessary and sometimes it doesn’t work at all. How do I know what is the case for me?

 

Hi Shelton,

It's tough to ascertain, in your case, with the Celexa.  As you got going with that, a lot of other changes were going on with your benzo.  Making it hard to know what drug was responsible for what changes.

Have you stuck with the .5 mg dose, at the same time of day?  Personally.......I think, that it might have helped.......at least the PGAD hasn't been as bad.  Again though, so many other variables......so very hard to know for sure.

 

It still will be helpful to see some notes again, so that we can better answer questions that you ask.  I call them notes, Shep calls them the daily symptoms journal. They are the same thing.  You were doing them before and doing well with them.

On 10/10/2020 at 6:24 AM, Shep said:

We definitely don't want to give you bad advice because we don't have all the information, so let us know how you're doing. You may even want to start writing out your daily symptoms journal again. 

 

Here's a refresher link for doing those:   Keep daily notes of drug schedule and symptoms to track patterns and progress

 

And so hoping this finds you well enough today.  You're in good hands with Shep and Frogie helping now too!

 

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

[Shelton]

On 10/16/2020 at 9:16 PM, Frogie said:

@Shelton

 

I just wanted to stop by and see how you were doing?

Thank you Frogie! I’m hanging in here. My symptoms now are waking around 2 hours in the middle of the night with severe anxiety, chemical anxiety in my chest throughout the day that can become severe with no true relief, headaches/migraines, fatigue & heart racing when not doing much activity, irritability. I am able to fight through the symptoms daily but cry in the evenings because it’s just so hard to fight through every single day.

 

I am struggling to know when to start the benzo taper. At this point, I’m not sure if I’m just in AD withdrawal or if I’m having bad symptoms from the Ativan. It’s so hard to tell because the Ativan has never helped me and I’ve never felt good on it. 

 

The severity of the symptoms vary but have gotten worse recently (about to start my period again) so I’m sure that’s probably why. 
 

On 10/18/2020 at 3:19 PM, manymoretodays said:

Have you stuck with the .5 mg dose, at the same time of day?  Personally.......I think, that it might have helped.......at least the PGAD hasn't been as bad.  Again though, so many other variables......so very hard to know for sure.

Yes I have stuck with that dose. It’s so hard to know. When I had the adverse reaction, I felt terrible for 2 weeks (physical anxiety, akathisia, impending doom feeing, weakness/heart racing). I’m having those same feeling minus the severe akathisia so it’s hard to tell if the Celexa is making it worse, if the Ativan is making it worse or if it’s just AD withdrawal. 

 

I pray a lot. I am doing therapy twice a week and I walk and stay busy as much as I can. The fight every single day is the hardest thing I’ve ever had to do.

 

I found that journaling my symptoms made me SO focused on withdrawal and made me even more hyper aware of symptoms which made me more anxious so I try to just make notes at the end of the day. My symptoms are pretty consistent (above) without much relief and I don’t notice any difference after taking my meds (minus the morning Ativan dose which gives me anxiety for some reason). 
 

I haven’t noticed much help with the Dr’s best magnesium - the first time I took 50mg I felt so much calm. Now, I can’t seem to get that same feeling - even at 100mg. Any suggestions with that?

 

Thank you both so much for checking in. I guess you would say I’m at “withdrawal normal” since I’m at a consistent state of feeling bad with not much of a swing except during my period.

[manymoretodays]

6 hours ago, Shelton said:

I pray a lot. I am doing therapy twice a week and I walk and stay busy as much as I can. The fight every single day is the hardest thing I’ve ever had to do.

 

I found that journaling my symptoms made me SO focused on withdrawal and made me even more hyper aware of symptoms which made me more anxious so I try to just make notes at the end of the day. My symptoms are pretty consistent (above) without much relief and I don’t notice any difference after taking my meds (minus the morning Ativan dose which gives me anxiety for some reason). 
 

I haven’t noticed much help with the Dr’s best magnesium - the first time I took 50mg I felt so much calm. Now, I can’t seem to get that same feeling - even at 100mg. Any suggestions with that?

 

Lot's of members say that about the Notes/drug and symptom journal.  However, it does not need to be that way.  How about you add in, what helped, and every time you feel any relief of symptoms to the rest.

 

They can be invaluable, for us, and give a birds eye view, if you will, of just how the symptoms play out in relation to your drugs and other.  So......come on, come on, come on......give us some more of those.

 

Relief of "akathisia" is huge!!!!  Seriously.  Don't downplay improvements.  And use descriptions of symptoms, whenever possible, rather than the broader medical terms.  It IS helpful for us to know, just what YOUR symptoms are.

 

I get to feeling like a bobblehead with magnesium taken orally.  You know, just mellow but I felt like one of those little plastic dolls, with the head you can make wobble.  It was, however, very relaxing, and helped me to lighten on up on my situation and symptoms.  It's rare that I take magnesium orally anymore.

 

With the baths, Epsom salts........that form of magnesium, it's more of just a relax.  Early on......it was sometimes almost too, too relaxed.

 

All I can think to suggest would be to spread it out, throughout the day, your dosing.  I think it just might be still helping.  You just may not notice it as much.

 

And remember.......even in that monotony of "feeling bad state" or WDnormal that you are at, there is certainly room to grow.  I like the idea of calendars, the old fashioned kind, and doing some color coding on the days........figuring out what ARE good days, even now, and what are not so good days, and then what it was that made the good days good.  That might be hard to follow, but stay focused on achievements/improvements and without a doubt they will keep coming and growing.

 

Alrighty, Best,

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

 

 

Edited October 20, 2020 by manymoretodays

[Shelton]

On 10/20/2020 at 11:52 AM, manymoretodays said:

Lot's of members say that about the Notes/drug and symptom journal.  However, it does not need to be that way.  How about you add in, what helped, and every time you feel any relief of symptoms to the rest.

 

Wednesday 10/20 - Sunday 10/25 (ON PERIOD)

Sleep okay  - not much nighttime anxiety

Wake up feeling hungover and slightly anxious

Feelings of depression, lack of interest in things I love, irritability, slight anxiety, fatigue, emotional BUT able to push through symptoms and get out of the house. I felt better when busy.

 

Monday 10/26

Little more increased anxiety but same symptoms of depression, lack of interest in things I love, irritability, light anxiety, fatigue, emotional BUT able to push through symptoms and get out of the house. Went out to eat but had severe anxiety on the way home and at home.

 

Tuesday 10/27

Had therapy appointment and talked to her about my symptoms and she seems to think I need more Celexa or something so that I can stable and taper Ativan. I think this triggered me thinking about increasing meds or having to start another one. Then I started to work on my taper schedule for Ativan and the water titration method kind of overwhelmed me. 

 

I had severe anxiety last night - Chest anxiety and on the verge of panic the entire night. I slept a total of 2-3 hours - the rest of the time I was looking at forums and it triggered me more and scared me about tapering Ativan or starting new meds.

 

Wednesday 10/28

Chest anxiety got so bad and heart racing so bad that I completely panicked. Nothing helped - found 5mg propranalol doctor prescribed months ago that I never took and took it. I was desperate - almost went to the ER. The propranalol helped.

 

I obviously want to avoid more medication but something has to give. Please help - what do you think I should do? Do you think I need to increase the Celexa to see if it helps me stabilize enough to taper the Ativan?

 

I meditate often, pray often, try to stay calm but every day is a fight. I have never had anxiety like this.

I took magnesium last week when anxiety was a little high - it helped calm me a lot BUT made PGAD flare up worse so I have to avoid it.

L-Theanine is not doing anything for me. I'm scared to try Vitamin C and Omega-3 in fear that it will make me more anxious.

 

My thoughts now are either - 

1. Stay where I'm at another week, switch to water for a little while on Ativan and then start that taper

2. Increase Celexa to see if I feel better and can stabilize somehow - then start Ativan taper

3. Try something else? I'm so desperate.

 

I feel like Ativan is possibly making things worse with side effects and stopping my complete healing and I've obviously hit dependence since I don't get immediate relief when I take them BUT I refuse to increase that dose.

 

Please give your advice - thank you so much!

[manymoretodays]

Hi Shelton,  You do need to do daily symptoms/notes with the date,  as well as the times on the left, and then note on the right your medications by name and dose.  Also on the right, symptoms and, coping, etc.  That will really help to see the relationship between your drugs and symptoms.  And then, from there, we moderators/members/mentors can better make suggestions and  answer your questions.  And oh Shelton, sorry it is still so difficult too.  You are being a trooper. L, P, H, and G.  mmt

Edited October 28, 2020 by manymoretodays

[ChessieCat]

7 hours ago, manymoretodays said:

daily symptoms/notes with the date,  as well as the times on the left, and then note on the right your medications by name and dose.  Also on the right, symptoms and, coping, etc.

 

And do a 24 hour period in one go so it makes it easier to compare the same time period for each day.

 

  Example:

 

On 9/28/2016 at 4:49 AM, Altostrata said:

DATE:

 

6 a.m. Woke with anxiety
8 a.m. Took 2.5mg Lexapro
10 a.m. Stomach is upset
10:30 a.m. Ate breakfast
11:35 a.m. Got a headache, lasted one hour
12:35 p.m. Ate lunch
4 p.m. Feel a bit better
5 p.m. Took 2.5mg Lexapro
6 p.m. Ate dinner
9:20 p.m. Headache
10:00 p.m. Took 50mg Seroquel
10:20 p.m. Feeling dizzy
10:30 p.m. Fell asleep
2:30 a.m. Woke, took 3mg Ambien (NOT "took 1/2 tablet Ambien")
2:45 a.m. Fell asleep
4:30 a.m. Woke but got back to sleep

 

 

 

[Shelton]

8 hours ago, manymoretodays said:

Hi Shelton,  You do need to do daily symptoms/notes with the date,  as well as the times on the left, and then note on the right your medications by name and dose.  Also on the right, symptoms and, coping, etc.  That will really help to see the relationship between your drugs and symptoms.  And then, from there, we moderators/members/mentors can better make suggestions and  answer your questions.  And oh Shelton, sorry it is still so difficult too.  You are being a trooper. L, P, H, and G.  mmt

oh shoot! I will redo my notes. 
 

I’ve missed your support @manymoretodays but glad I don’t come straight here every time I’m in a panic.

[manymoretodays]

Awww.  Thanks.  I'm headed out and off for a few days only.  So, I'll be watching your thread. 

I guess I am coming out of my own late wave lately, so have been taking a lot of "self" time.  Learning to take better care of myself after all these years.

 

And we can get Shep's input around that darn benzo too!  Easier done with the daily symptom/Notes. 

 

And yes, you are learning to manage.  Very good.

Edited October 29, 2020 by manymoretodays

[Shelton]

Wednesday 10/20 - Sunday 10/25 (ON PERIOD)

 

Wednesday 10/20

Sleep okay  - not much nighttime anxiety

5:30am - Ativan .125mg - back to sleep

8:00am - Wake up feeling hungover and slightly anxious

9:30am - Celexa .5mg 

10:00am-1:30pm-Feelings of depression, lack of interest in things I love, irritability, slight anxiety, fatigue, emotional. I feel better when busy. PGAD is flared after taking magnesium to calm down some anxiety - could be my period but the last time I took magnesium it flared too - going to stop that just in case

1:30pm - Ativan .125mg

2:00pm-9:00pm - Feelings of depression, lack of interest in things I love, irritability, slight anxiety, fatigue, emotional. PGAD still flared

9:30pm - Ativan .125mg

 

Thursday 10/21

Sleep okay - some nighttime anxiety but not bad

5:30am - Ativan .125mg - back to sleep 

8:00am - Wake up feeling hungover and slightly anxious

9:30am - Celexa .5mg 

10:00am- 1:00pm - watched several sermons and did lots of prayer and meditation - cried a lot - same feelings of depression, fear, lack of interest in things I love, anxiety and fatigue/weakness

1:00pm - therapy appointment

1:30pm - Ativan .125mg

2:30pm - work call where I had to explain something to a new hire...made me extremely anxious/irritable like I couldn’t handle the stimulation

3:30pm - chiropractic appointment l

4:00pm-6:00pm - went to in laws house and had great conversation with sister in law about faith and what I’m going through

6:30pm-8:30pm - went out to eat with husband and another couple. Sat outside, anxiety and overwhelming sense of fear while there - almost a panic attack - fatigue  PGAD still flaring

9:30pm - Ativan .125mg

 

Friday 10/22

Slept okay - some nighttime anxiety

5;30am - Ativan .125mg - back fo sleep

8;00am - wake up feeling hungover and slightly anxious

9:30 am - Celexa .5mg

10:00am-12:00pm - cried a lot - same feelings of depression, fear, lack of interest in things I love, anxiety and fatigue/weakness

12:30pm - went and voted

1:30pm - Ativan .125mg

2:00pm-6:00pm - super emotional - home alone with my son all day and mentally such a rough day. Feelings of anxiety, thoughts paired with a lot of fear, depression/lots of tears, couldn’t wait for my husband to get home - took short walk with my son

6:00pm - fell into husbands arms, felt like I just couldn’t be strong through this anymore

7:00pm-pulled myself together and went to mother in laws house...seems to help when I get out of the house and distract myself 

9:30pm - Ativan .125mg

 

Saturday 10/23

Slept okay - some nighttime anxiety 

5;30am - Ativan .125mg - back fo sleep

8;00am - wake up feeling hungover and slightly anxious

9:30 am - Celexa .5mg

10:00am-1:00pm - had a scare - went to pick up Ativan refill and it wasn’t there. Doc didn’t call it in - I finally got in touch with her at 12:30 and she called it in so no dose missed. Lesson learned - whole time feeling same feelings of depression, fear, lack of interest in things I love, anxiety and fatigue/weakness

1:30pm - Ativan .125mg

2:00pm-4:00pm - shower and get ready - friends daughter birthday party tonight 

5:00pm-9:00pm - when initially got there, had depersonalization and just down, not feeling like myself at all. As the night went on, started feeling better with the distractions and forgot about withdrawal and how bad I feel for at least a little while. 

9:30pm - Ativan .125mg

 

Sunday 10/25

Sleep okay  - not much nighttime anxiety

5:30am - Ativan .125mg - back to sleep

8:00am - Wake up feeling hungover and slightly anxious

9:30am - Celexa .5mg 

10:00am-1:30pm-Feelings of depression, lack of interest in things I love, irritability, slight anxiety, fatigue, emotional. PGAD is still flared. Very sleepy/fatigued all day. Wanted to nap so bad but was scared of it being a toxic nap. 

1:30pm - Ativan .125mg

2:00pm-9:00pm - Feelings of depression, lack of interest in things I love, irritability, slight anxiety, fatigue, emotional. PGAD still flared - still very fatigued/sleepy/tired - laid around literally all day but couldn’t “relax” due to anxiety and thoughts.

9:30pm - Ativan .125mg

 

 

Monday 10/26

Sleep okay  - not much nighttime anxiety

5:30am - Ativan .125mg - back to sleep

8:00am - Wake up feeling hungover and slightly anxious

9:30am - Celexa .5mg 

10:00am-1:30pm-Feelings of depression, lack of interest in things I love, irritability, more anxiety today than depression, a lot of fatigue and weakness, emotional. 

1:30pm - Ativan .125mg

2:00pm-4:30pm - same feelings as earlier - more fatigue and anxiety than earlier

5:00pm - went out to eat with husband and had fear the whole way there - pushed through. Entire dinner I felt not like myself at all, couldn’t enjoy it or have a good conversation, so ready to leave, fatigued/weak/tired

7:30pm - a lot of anxiety/heart racing when we got back. Had to lay down

9;30pm - Ativan .125mg

 

Tuesday 10/27

Sleep bad but son was up a lot

5:30am - Ativan .125mg - back to sleep

8:00am - Wake up feeling hungover and slightly anxious

9:30am - Celexa .5mg 

10:00am - 12:00pm - lots of anxiety/depression - went to store to get baby food and just so fatigue and out of it. Getting really upset with not feeling good at all and fighting every day

1:30pm - Ativan .125mg

2:00pm - Had therapy appointment and talked to her about my symptoms and she seems to think I need more Celexa or something so that I can stable and taper Ativan. I think this triggered me thinking about increasing meds or having to start another one. Then I started to work on my taper schedule for Ativan and the water titration method kind of overwhelmed me.

(Realized my scale has been off so ativan doses could have been off or inconsistent - unsure but figured out the scale and used accurate dose at 1:30pm based on weight)

3:00pm-9:00pm - a lot of bad chemical anxiety, fear and worry about tapering Ativan - serious obsession and fear over it. Felt like the chemical anxiety may have been related to ativan and then me working it up.

9:30pm - Ativan .125mg accurately weighed

 

(Wondering if the inaccuracy of scale and then switching to correct weight is part of the reason for this oncoming debilitating anxiety - although couldn’t have been off by much because I was still cutting in 4s)

 

Wednesday 10/28

I had severe anxiety last night - Chest anxiety and on the verge of panic the entire night. I slept a total of 2-3 hours - the rest of the time I was looking at forums and it triggered me more and scared me about tapering Ativan or starting new meds. Definitely think I was dealing with some sort of issue with Ativan weight mix up.

5:30am - Ativan .125mg - calmed me for maybe 30 minutes then back wide awake in severe anxiety - so scary and unbearable 

9:00am - could not handle this severe anxiety, heart racing and fear any longer - I panicked! took propranolol 5mg that I had in the cabinet from months ago (never taken before but desperate) - the propranolol helped and gave me some relief!

9:30am - Celexa .5mg

10:00am-12:30pm - very fatigued and still overall pretty anxious, definitely not feeling like myself and appetite was bad. Had to force myself to eat.

1:30pm - Ativan .125mg - calmed down some severe anxiety for about 20mins then super emotional, very panicky feeling, super fatigued/sleepy/foggy feeling - cried to husband and now at my parents house due to such a bad/scary day

5:00pm - started feeling a lot of brain fog, fatigue/sleepiness/out of it, very emotional, sometimes hot, sometimes cold, leg pain that feels like it did when I skipped my midday Ativan dose weeks ago. That’s why I feel like something changed when I fixed the scale and now accurately weighing

8:00pm-9:00pm - anxiety/emotions ramped up. Lots of tears and shivers. When I had anxiety or panic prior to meds and on meds, I would shiver like this but still scary.

9:30pm - Ativan .125mg - calmed shivers down 

 

Slept much better last night but still experiencing some leg aching - it seems like I’m having possible rebound anxiety from ativan or tolerance withdrawal? Hoping I stable on the Ativan now that I’m accurately weighing. I am not sure how in the world I’m supposed to get through an ativan taper with all of these awful symptoms but I’m obviously dealing with some unpleasant side effects of it too. 

 

Any suggestions?
 

@Shep @Frogie @manymoretodays

[Shep]

1 hour ago, Shelton said:

Tuesday 10/27

Sleep bad but son was up a lot

 

1 hour ago, Shelton said:

Wednesday 10/28

I had severe anxiety last night - Chest anxiety and on the verge of panic the entire night. I slept a total of 2-3 hours - the rest of the time I was looking at forums and it triggered me more and scared me about tapering Ativan or starting new meds. Definitely think I was dealing with some sort of issue with Ativan weight mix up.

 

This looks like it could be a spiral, Shelton. It can happen when life throws you a curve and messes up your sleep (such as your son waking you up a lot). And then the next day, the agitation and anxiety build up more. And the monkey-mind needs something to do with it so it goes looking for trouble. In this case, hyper-focusing on the Ativan weight and staying up late on the computer. 

 

This is a great thread on spiral thinking:

 

Dealing With Emotional Spirals

 

Instead of reading the forums when your in panic mode, try a guided meditation. Here's a good one:

 

Guided Meditation Deep sleep | anxiety and insomnia relief | relaxation before bedtime video (21 minutes)

 

You mentioned prayer, meditation, and faith in your symptoms journal, so you may want to find guided meditations that focus on these topics. There are thousands of guided meditations on the internet to choose from. Perhaps make a playlist of your favorites so you have easy access on these insomnia nights.

 

Please give this a try and continue with the same drug regiment for a couple more days. You may want to try a guided meditation for intrusive thoughts in the evening before you try to sleep. Perhaps take an epsom salt bath (if you're not sensitive to magnesium) and listen to some quiet music. Do what you can to settle the mind and set the stage for a good night's sleep. 

 

[Shelton]

5 hours ago, Shep said:

 

 

This looks like it could be a spiral, Shelton. It can happen when life throws you a curve and messes up your sleep (such as your son waking you up a lot). And then the next day, the agitation and anxiety build up more. And the monkey-mind needs something to do with it so it goes looking for trouble. In this case, hyper-focusing on the Ativan weight and staying up late on the computer. 

 

This is a great thread on spiral thinking:

 

Dealing With Emotional Spirals

 

Instead of reading the forums when your in panic mode, try a guided meditation. Here's a good one:

 

Guided Meditation Deep sleep | anxiety and insomnia relief | relaxation before bedtime video (21 minutes)

 

You mentioned prayer, meditation, and faith in your symptoms journal, so you may want to find guided meditations that focus on these topics. There are thousands of guided meditations on the internet to choose from. Perhaps make a playlist of your favorites so you have easy access on these insomnia nights.

 

Please give this a try and continue with the same drug regiment for a couple more days. You may want to try a guided meditation for intrusive thoughts in the evening before you try to sleep. Perhaps take an epsom salt bath (if you're not sensitive to magnesium) and listen to some quiet music. Do what you can to settle the mind and set the stage for a good night's sleep. 

 

I will definitely do this. I actually slept much better last night. Was up for a couple hours with chest anxiety but this morning I have terrible physical symptoms. Severe weakness, almost blackout standing up so have to stand up slowly, feel like I’ve been hit by a bus, chest pain (obviously some sort of chemical anxiety), air hunger. 
 

Could all of this be ativan or the Ativan weight mix up or a combination of the spiraling?

 

How in the world did you get off these meds and when did you see light at the end of the tunnel? I question increasing Celexa or something to help me stabilize every day. I don’t know what is best. I just want to feel good so that when I do taper all meds, I can control the withdrawal symptoms. I will definitely stay where I’m at until I at least get back to where I was and not make any decisions without talking to you. I have a 5 month old and my quality of life is unbearable.
 

Thank you so much Shep. I pray you’re doing so well. I read your story, how did you get through this and keep your job? And sanity?