Jazz7099: swapping and tapering

[Jazz7099]

Hi everyone. Here's my drug history...

2017. Experienced anxiety and depression. Started Zoloft. Only took for 5 weeks as I was unable to sleep. I was switched to cymbalta. Only took this for 1 week as I had read online bad reviews and people waiting to sue. I was put on Mirtazapine 15mg. Which I took for 2 weeks because I was sedated. I was then put on Lexapro 10mg which I continued for 5 months. I had sexual side effects and emotional numbing. I became pregnant and then over 4 weeks was tapered off. I stayed off for 4 months and then mid pregnancy I was experiencing depression and anxiety again so I was put on citalopram. Which I feel did not help much. After my baby was born I was put back on Lexapro 10mg. Which worked better. I continued for 5 months before the side effects became too much. I tapered down 5mg over 12 weeks. Then it all became too much. I went back to the Dr and she suggested I try valdoxan. As it has low side effects. I swapped straight to that. After 2 weeks on this I became suicidal. My doctor told me to stop taking it immediately which I did so. She booked me in to see a psychiatrist. I had to wait 6 weeks over which time I became severely depressed.  He put me on Mirtazapine 30mg. I have now been off Lexapro 5 months and on Mirtazapine for 13weeks. I am experiencing sever waves and some windows. Please help. I don't know what to do to stabilize. I feel like my brain is broken. 

[ChessieCat]

Hi Jazz and welcome to SA,

 

So that we can offer suggestions based on your drug history, we need to see a detailed list of the drugs you have taken. 

 

Please use this format:

 

Drug name:  starting dose, date; increase/decrease dose, date; increase/decrease dose, date; last dose, date you stopped  (in brackets brief reason you stopped the drug)

 

We need this information for every drug please.  Start a new line for each drug so we can clearly see the timeline.

 

After the list of drugs please describe your current symptoms.  How is your sleep?

 

This is your own Introduction topic where you can ask questions about your own situation and you can journal your progress.

[Jazz7099]

16 hours ago, Jazz7099 said:

Hi everyone. Here's my drug history...

2017. Experienced anxiety and depression. Started Zoloft. Only took for 5 weeks as I was unable to sleep. I was switched to cymbalta. Only took this for 1 week as I had read online bad reviews and people waiting to sue. I was put on Mirtazapine 15mg. Which I took for 2 weeks because I was sedated. I was then put on Lexapro 10mg which I continued for 5 months. I had sexual side effects and emotional numbing. I became pregnant and then over 4 weeks was tapered off. I stayed off for 4 months and then mid pregnancy I was experiencing depression and anxiety again so I was put on citalopram. Which I feel did not help much. After my baby was born I was put back on Lexapro 10mg. Which worked better. I continued for 5 months before the side effects became too much. I tapered down 5mg over 12 weeks. Then it all became too much. I went back to the Dr and she suggested I try valdoxan. As it has low side effects. I swapped straight to that. After 2 weeks on this I became suicidal. My doctor told me to stop taking it immediately which I did so. She booked me in to see a psychiatrist. I had to wait 6 weeks over which time I became severely depressed.  He put me on Mirtazapine 30mg. I have now been off Lexapro 5 months and on Mirtazapine for 13weeks. I am experiencing sever waves and some windows. Please help. I don't know what to do to stabilize. I feel like my brain is broken. 

12 hours ago, ChessieCat said:

Hi Jazz and welcome to SA,

 

So that we can offer suggestions based on your drug history, we need to see a detailed list of the drugs you have taken. 

 

Please use this format:

 

Drug name:  starting dose, date; increase/decrease dose, date; increase/decrease dose, date; last dose, date you stopped  (in brackets brief reason you stopped the drug)

 

We need this information for every drug please.  Start a new line for each drug so we can clearly see the timeline.

 

After the list of drugs please describe your current symptoms.  How is your sleep?

 

This is your own Introduction topic where you can ask questions about your own situation and you can journal your progress.

Zoloft 25mg 5 weeks  may2018 june2018 swapped straight to...

Cymbalta 30mg 1 week July 2018 swapped straight to...

Mirtazapine 15mg 2 weeks July to August 2018 swapped straight to...

Lexapro 7.5mg 5months August 2018 to November 2018 ( weaned down over 4 weeks to stop as I was pregnant) 

Citalopram 10mg one week  then 20mg for Feb 2019 to August 2019, swapped back to...

Lexapro 5mg one week then 10mg August 2019 to March 2020. I tapered down to 5mg over a 12 week period then stopped and swapped straight to...

Valdoxan 25mg 2 weeks March 2020

(During this time I experienced withdrawal from Lexapro. And became suicidal) after 2 weeks doctor said because of these symptoms I should stop and she booked me into a psychiatrist. I had a drug free break
Mirtazapine 30mg 13weeks June 2020 until present. 

 

Now I am experiencing waves and windows. During the windows I can cope but in the waves I'm as bad as ever. Extremely anxious. Dizzy. Headaches. Restless. Agitated. Can't concentrate. Bad depression. Ruminating thoughts that I can't stop or control. I feel like me brain is broken . Please help me. Do I reinstate Lexapro? Or tough it out on Mirtazapine. I can sleep because of the sedative in Mirtazapine. Sorry I'm new to this and not sure if I'm posting in the right place etc. Also experiencing alot of deep emotional pain and crying spells 

[ChessieCat]

Thank you for documenting the drug changes.  It is very well detailed, but concise, and what we need to see.

 

Please continue on the drug and dose that you are currently taking.

 

I am unable to assist further with the drug situation, but the other mods have been notified that you needed assistance.

 

Stabilising is not linear, it happens in a windows and waves pattern.

 

the-windows-and-waves-pattern-of-stabilization

 

You might find some of the information in this topic helpful.  There are links to sub topics in Post #1:

 

are-we-there-yet-how-long-is-withdrawal-going-to-take

 

We strongly encourage members to learn and use non drug coping techniques.

 

non-drug-techniques-to-cope-with-emotional-symptoms

 

 

 

[Jazz7099]

Thankyou chessie cat for the quick reply and advice. Yes just in desperate need of some Insight on my drug situation from others who understand the situation. 

[ChessieCat]

Hang in there.  We do understand that members can feel desperate.

 

5 hours ago, Jazz7099 said:

 

Now I am experiencing waves and windows. During the windows I can cope

 

 

This is a good sign.  Do what you can to get through the waves.  Sometimes we just have to take it hour by hour.  And unfortunately sometimes we have to get through it moment by moment.  Many of the SA members have experienced this.

 

5 hours ago, Jazz7099 said:

I can sleep because of the sedative in Mirtazapine.

 

This is also good.  Many members experience insomnia which makes coping with the waves so much harder.

 

acceptance

 

AAF Acknowledge, Accept, Float.  

A strategy for handling a myriad of psychological symptoms.  Acknowledge that the symptoms are real, Accept that they can't harm you and that there is nothing you can do about them, let them Float off as you go on about your business.

 

 And a bit more information about AAF:

 

On 4/9/2020 at 10:31 AM, brassmonkey said:

 

AAF: Acknowledge, Accept, Float.  It's what you have to do when nothing else works, and can be a very powerful tool in coping with anxiety.  The neuroemotional anxiety many of us feel during WD is directly caused by the drugs and their chemical reactions in the brain.  Making it so there is nothing we can do about them.  They won't respond to other drugs, relaxation techniques and the like.  They do, however, react very well to being ignored.  That's the concept behind AAF.  Acknowledge, get to know the feeling involved, explore them.  Accept, These feelings are a part of you and they aren't going anywhere fast. Float, let the feeling float off as you get on with your life as best as you can.  It's a well documented fact that the more you feed in to anxiety the worse it gets.  What starts as generalized neuroemotinal anxiety can be easily blown into a full fledged panic attack just by thinking about it.

 

I often liken it to an unwanted house guest.  At first you talk to them, have conversations, communicate with them.  After a while you figure out that they aren't leaving and there is nothing you can do to get rid of them.  So you go on about your day, working around them until they get bored and leave.

 

It can take some practice, but AAF really does work.

 

 

 

[Jazz7099]

Thanks for the reassurance. My symptoms can get very overwhelming and I can get quite frightened by them. Means alot to know that someone understands.

[Jazz7099]

Thankyou chessie cat for the quick reply and advice. Yes just in desperate need of some Insight on my drug situation from others who understand the situation. 

[Jazz7099]

Also how typically long do waves last? Is there a pattern of them getting better? It's unbearable.

[ChessieCat]

Unfortunately that is like asking how long is a piece of string.

 

What are you current symptoms?

 

Please post daily symptoms notes for the next 3 consecutive days.  Post a 24 hour period in one go so that it makes it easier to compare the different days.

 

  

On 9/28/2016 at 4:49 AM, Altostrata said:

 

What we need to see for every single day over several days is what symptoms you get before and after you take your drugs. If you're not taking any drugs and have withdrawal symptoms, we still need to see your symptom pattern throughout the day:

 

The time of day, dosage, and severity of symptoms are essential information. Include

 

- Time and dosage for all drugs taken throughout the day, psychiatric and non-psychiatric.

- Following each dose, note any symptoms. If you are having a reaction to the drug, it may take hours for a symptom to show up -- that's why we ask you to keep notes all day long.

- If you're not taking any drugs, your symptoms throughout the day.

- Your sleep pattern. Since so many drugs disturb sleep, if you find you're waking in the middle of the night, it could be from a drug you took earlier in the evening. If you're not taking any drugs, there may be ways you can improve your sleep.

And so forth. A diary, in chronological order, looking something like this:
 

Example:

DATE:

 

6 a.m. Woke with anxiety
8 a.m. Took 2.5mg Lexapro
10 a.m. Stomach is upset
10:30 a.m. Ate breakfast
11:35 a.m. Got a headache, lasted one hour
12:35 p.m. Ate lunch
4 p.m. Feel a bit better
5 p.m. Took 2.5mg Lexapro
6 p.m. Ate dinner
9:20 p.m. Headache
10:00 p.m. Took 50mg Seroquel
10:20 p.m. Feeling dizzy
10:30 p.m. Fell asleep
2:30 a.m. Woke, took 3mg Ambien (NOT "took 1/2 tablet Ambien")
2:45 a.m. Fell asleep
4:30 a.m. Woke but got back to sleep

 

 

 

 

[Altostrata]

Hello, Jazz.

 

On 9/2/2020 at 9:35 PM, Jazz7099 said:

After my baby was born I was put back on Lexapro 10mg. Which worked better. I continued for 5 months before the side effects became too much. I tapered down 5mg over 12 weeks. Then it all became too much.

 

Please give more details about your taking Lexapro August 2019 to March 2020. What do you mean by "better"? What were the side effects? What does  "it all became too much" mean?

[Jazz7099]

By better I mean that I felt better on it that ciprimil. I was crying less. Felt less anxious and depressed. Overall I was more stable. The side effects were too much for me to deal with on a daily basis. I had no sexual interest and that part of my life was basically non existent. Also I experienced emotional numbing. I didn't feel depressed but I could feel good feelings either like happiness or excitement. I didn't want to live my life like that.

[Jazz7099]

I couldn't feel good feelings I meant. Sorry.

[Jazz7099]

By too much I mean that I was experiencing anxiety and crying spells and dizziness and which in hindsight was withdrawal but I didnt know that at the time. I just followed what my doctor said to do. 

[Jazz7099]

Day 1

6am woke feeling anxious and down.
7am feeling irritated
8am trying to calm my irritation but I'm finding it hard to keep it in. Every little thing annoys me.
9am having racing thoughts. My mind won't calm, I can feel anxiety in my chest.
10.30. the anxiety and irritation overwhelme me. I try some mindfulness meditation and can calm down a little. 
12.30 feeling dazed hard to focus on the present moment. Almost like I'm in a dream and cant be present. Hard to describe. 

1.pm every noise sounds amplified. It's hard to focus with lots of noises going on and they are so loud and it's extremely irritating.

2.30 I can feel anxiety running through my chest and arms. My brain feels fragile like it might break. I don't know how else to describe it.

3.00 I'm overwhelmed. I'm snappy. I'm angry

4.00 I can't help yelling. 
5. Uncomfortable anxiety
7.30 take 30mg Mirtazapine
8.30 bed

[Jazz7099]

Please help. Feeling desperate. Do I reinstate Lexapro? Is Mirtazapine making me worse? My doctor thinks it's impossible for Lexapro to be effecting me this way

[Altostrata]

On 9/2/2020 at 9:35 PM, Jazz7099 said:

I tapered down 5mg over 12 weeks. Then it all became too much. I went back to the Dr and she suggested I try valdoxan. As it has low side effects. I swapped straight to that. After 2 weeks on this I became suicidal. My doctor told me to stop taking it immediately which I did so. She booked me in to see a psychiatrist. I had to wait 6 weeks over which time I became severely depressed.  He put me on Mirtazapine 30mg. I have now been off Lexapro 5 months and on Mirtazapine for 13weeks.

 

Seems to me you have withdrawal syndrome from Lexapro. Your doctor doesn't know beans.

 

Since you've been taking mirtazapine, how have your symptoms changed?

 

To help us out, follow these instructions Please put your drug and withdrawal history in your signature You may need to use a computer to do this.

[Jazz7099]

I seem to have 1 or 2 week of coping when muy symptoms are not as intense. But then I'll plunge out of nowhere. I'll experience extreme anxiety and depression. Restlessness. Confusion. Light headedness.  Noises sound amplified. Racing uncontrollable thoughts. Crying spells. Aggitation and anger. What can I do about this?

[Jazz7099]

I'm not sure if the mirt is helping or making things worse?

[Jazz7099]

Should I reinstate Lexapro? Is that even an option?

[ChessieCat]

6 hours ago, Altostrata said:

 

To help us out, follow these instructions Please put your drug and withdrawal history in your signature You may need to use a computer to do this.

 

 

[Jazz7099]

Sorry. I updated my signature. I didn't understand what it was. Thanks.

[Altostrata]

15 hours ago, Jazz7099 said:

I seem to have 1 or 2 week of coping when muy symptoms are not as intense. But then I'll plunge out of nowhere. I'll experience extreme anxiety and depression. Restlessness. Confusion. Light headedness.  Noises sound amplified. Racing uncontrollable thoughts. Crying spells. Aggitation and anger. What can I do about this?

 

That sounds like antidepressant withdrawal syndrome, all right. Since the beginning of August, how have your symptoms changed?

 

What is your sleep pattern? Does mirtazapine help you sleep? How do you feel before and after you take it?

[Jazz7099]

When I first stopped Lexapro I crashed pretty hard into the worst depression I've had. Since starting mirt I have climbed up the ladder a little. I have many of the same symptoms when I'm in a wave. They don't really change. It's just that it keeps happening so it's hard to see improvement. The mirt does help me sleep.i can sleep all night. How I feel before taking it varies from day to day. I can't say consistently. Afterwards I beging to get sleepy within an hour. Then I just go to bed.

[Altostrata]

Mirtazapine sounds like it's doing its job. It's good that you're sleeping. You're experiencing The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

Overall, in the last month, have your symptoms gotten better or worse, on average? More frequent, less frequent?

[Jazz7099]

In the past month I've had approx 2 weeks of "coping" not well but being able to live comfortably. 1 week of "falling" into the wave and the wave has been a week so far. The window has probably been the best yet. Since stopping Lexapro. I have had multiple waves and this one is particularly bad. To the point where I was actually frightened of my symptoms. Thinking something was wrong and I should go to hospital. My vision went a bit funny. And I felt physical sick at the start of the week. 

[ChessieCat]

If you are still of "that age", you might find that your monthly cycle affects your symptoms.  You might find it helpful to keep notes on paper to see if there is a pattern.  There may not be much you can do about it, but if there is a pattern and you know about it, then it might be easier to accept and know that it is short term.

[Jazz7099]

Thanks chessie cat. I actually noticed that its happened the same time this month and last month in my cycle. Why is this?

[ChessieCat]

Fluctuating hormones.

 

aligning-tapering-to-menstrual-cycle

[Jazz7099]

Wow ok that's very interesting

Thanks.

[Jazz7099]

So what's the advice from here on in? I basically just want to make sure I do the right thing so my condition does not deteriorate further. Do I reinstate Lexapro? Do I leave everything until I stabilize? Or do I slowly taper Mirtazapine as it could be making things worse? Any suggestions would be very much appreciated. 

[Altostrata]

If your symptoms are overall not great but better since the beginning of July, you might want to hang in for gradual recovery over some months. You will need to accept the waves and windows, windows should gradually start taking over. You're taking a fairly substantial amount of mirtazapine. I would hesitate to add anything to it.

 

On the other hand, if you find your symptoms are unbearable, you might want to try a very little bit, maybe 1mg to start, of liquid citalopram, which is Lexapro's milder sibling. You'd see how that does; if it helps, stay on a low-dose reinstatement until everything settles down, then reduce citalopram followed by mirtazapine.

[Jazz7099]

Thanks so much for the suggestions Altostrata. It means alot in this horrible time I'm having. 

[Jazz7099]

So I came out of my wave. Feeling better now. I can cope again. It lasted 11days. Im just starting to track the waves and windows. So because I'm just figuring this whole thing out and have only just found this sight and realized what's going on with my body, would you say that's a good sign? Is that a typically long wave or a short one? I have no idea. 

[Hanna72]

@Jazz7099

3 hours ago, Jazz7099 said:

So I came out of my wave. Feeling better now

That’s great news 😃
There is no timeline on waves and window patterns. The way I sometimes look at it is when in a wave my mind and body have some repairing to do. So accepting and respecting it can give me some comfort.

Enjoy your window

All the best to you🙏

 

[Jazz7099]

Ok next wave I'll try my hardest to accept it. Although I find that most difficult. Waves are still so intense and I find there is no amount of positive thinking that can help me. I just can't find the light. Fingers crossed they start to back off a bit. Thanks for the advice.