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morgana: Zyprexa / olanzapine

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morgana

I am in the process of tapering off zyprexa.  I started zyprexa in 1996 and and was on 10mg until i decided to start reducing in October 2017 .  I  reduced it to  7.5mg for a year, and than 5mg and in April 2020 i began  2.5mg.  Have been on 2.5mg for 4 months now  The only thing i find difficult is the lack of deep sleep and the pain in all my joints...the pain in my joints only started happening since i started on 2.5mg..Also lower back pain, first i thought it was from my bed mattress but i changed beds and no relief...and i havnt injured myself in anyway....all i can put it down to, is my reduced zyprexa.  Also since reducing it to 2.5mg i have been getting face sores...always had good skin up until then...so thats a problem that annoys me..  I am planing on staying on 2.5mg for the next 6 months and than try and taper at 10% reduction each month over 12 months to zero.. i want to do it slowiy as it affects my ability to sleep.   I have to somehow figure out how i can taper off so slowly as what i have read is the tablet  it isnt soluble in water...I live in Australia and am looking at compounding labs to find out if i can somehow have it done...I have been on this drug since 1996 and i am over it...i am doing it on my own with no doctors apart from just getting my repeats from my GP (not a psch doc).  any advice would be most appreciated.  cheers


Diagnosed with Depression, Borderline Personality Disorder and Schizo-effective Disorder. 

Cipramil  40mg  1996 to October 2017 stopped cold turkey

Zyprexa 10mg solid form  1996 to October 2017

Zyprexa 7.5mg solid form  October 2017 to October 2018

Zyprexa 5mg solid form  October 2018 to April 2020

Zyprexa 3.75mg solid form April 2020 to May 2020

Zyprexa 2.5mg solid form  May 2020 to September 2020

Zyprexa 2.5mg liquid form September to Mid October 2020 - couldnt sleep

Zyprexa 2.5mg solid form  Mid October 2020 to present

Red Wine daily approx upto 1 litre, Mid October 2020 to present

Supplements:   Day Vitamin C and E, B complex, Multi vitamin, Fish Oil, Swisse - Memory + Focus, 1000 mg Magnesium, Swisse - Sleep, Bioglan - Sleep Tablets (6x Meletonin) - not prescriptions 

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Glosmom

Hi Morgana, @morgana

 

Welcome to Surviving Antidepressants (SA). I have moved your post below to this Forum called the Introductions and updates Forum.

 

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/12078-andy-finally-off-zyprexa/page/3/?tab=comments#comment-500106

 

Your Introduction topic will be a way for you to introduce yourself to the group. It will be like a journal, so we can all follow and respond to your progress. Members may respond to your topic and give you support and encouragement.

Each person's Introduction topic is important to the site:

- We can keep track of how you are doing by reading your intro topic.
- These are informal case histories and progress reports. They will be invaluable for visitors to the site who may be suffering the same symptom pattern that you are.
- You will not have to keep explaining your history.
- By keeping reports of individual developments in the intro topics, proliferation of topics will be reduced.

Also, please put your medication and tapering history in your signature -- that's the information you see at the bottom of someone's post. This will help people understand your situation no matter where you post on the site.

 

Please add a signature.  Include drugs, doses, dates, and discontinuations & reinstatements in the last 12-24 months. Also include supplements. This will help us give you the most accurate advice we can. 

Any drugs and supplements prior to 24 months ago can just be listed with start and stop years. 
Please use actual dates or approximate dates (mid-June, Late October) rather than relative time frames (last week, 3 months ago) 
Spell out months, e.g. "October" or "Oct."; 9/1/2016 can be interpreted as Jan. 9, 2016 or Sept. 1, 2016. 
Please leave out symptoms and diagnoses. 
A list is easier to understand than one or multiple paragraphs. 
 

See instructions in this topic:

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/18343-please-put-your-withdrawal-history-in-your-signature/(Please note that, while your identity is protected by a screen name, your topic can be read by anyone who visits the site, including Google, and do not post sensitive identifying information.)

 

I have also included a link below on how to taper Zyprexa.  

 

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/3743-tips-for-tapering-off-zyprexa-olanzapine/?do=findComment&comment=42858

 

I am sorry that you are having difficulties with sleep and joint pain.  Those sound like typical withdrawal symptoms.  You tapered by 50% back in April and that is faster than SA's recommended 10% every 4 to 6 weeks.  Holding until your symptoms settle is a good plan.  We don't recommend putting a timeframe on that; listening to your body can be very helpful. Below is the link for our 10% Tapering method.

 

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/1024-why-taper-by-10-of-my-dosage/

 

Again, Welcome to Surviving Antidepressants.   We wish continued healing for you on your tapering journey.  Glosmom

Edited by manymoretodays
New Moderator...not sure i am doing this correctly, added @ so member can find introduction after moving first post to introductions

2016 - Oct -Daughter started Risperdal (for steroid induced psychosis that never went away after stopping prednisone)

Nov - dose increases stopped at 1.5mg in Dec

2017 - Jan- weaned from 1.5 to 1.0 in 2 weeks then 1.0 to .5 in two weeks and then off. Feb. 3 weeks of increased psychosis, pacing, insomnia, other awful symptoms so late Feb  - Back on 1.5 mg Risperdal. May  - decrease to 1.25mg, two weeks later 1.0mg - symptoms started again. June - held steady at 1.25mg for 6 weeks and switched to liquid (3 ml syringe). July - started 10% taper every 3 weeks, October -  .8 mg, December - .7 mg .

2018 -Jan- 0.65 mg,  Feb- 0.59,  Mar-0.50, late April - .40mg, July- .36 mg, Aug - switched from 3 mL syringe to 1 mL syringe for more accuracy (her dad and i were not sure we were giving her the same dose when in between the 'dashes' on the 3 mL syringe.) Aug -.30 mg (3mL syr)/.44 mg (1 mL syr) difference due to med in the tip of both syringes). Sept- .28 mg (3mL syr)/.42 mg (1 mL syr). Oct - .16 mg (3 mL syr)/.30 mg (1 mL syr). Nov.- .06mg (3mL syr)/.20 mg (1mLsyr). Dec. - tip only/unmeasurable (3mL syr)/.10 mg (1mLsyr)

2019- Jan -.06 mg (1 mL syr), Feb- .025 mg (1 mL syr), Feb 27, 2019 - jumped to zero!!

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morgana

thankyou glosmon, i really felt it when i dropped from 5mg to 2.5mg, i did for a month cut the tablets and take 3.75mg, but got alittle impatient....and just took 2.5mg and am staying put for the next 6 months and then i will start to taper 10%.....in that time i will find out as much as possible on how to taper..I read through " tapering off zyprexa " but cannot seem to get my head round it...i understand the 2.5mg tablets do not dissolve properly in water, so as i live in Australia, i would need to find out if I can buy that 'Guy's Solution' from a chemist or online  to dissolve the tablet and then reduce the solution mixture by 10% each month....or buy zyprexa in a liquid form which i do not know if i can in australia and how it is done........alot for me to research...i guess i have found the right website to start from...so thankyou  for your support.  There are not very many people who have tapered off zyprexa  completly and are not replacing it with different one is there?...i just hope i can one day! thankyou 


Diagnosed with Depression, Borderline Personality Disorder and Schizo-effective Disorder. 

Cipramil  40mg  1996 to October 2017 stopped cold turkey

Zyprexa 10mg solid form  1996 to October 2017

Zyprexa 7.5mg solid form  October 2017 to October 2018

Zyprexa 5mg solid form  October 2018 to April 2020

Zyprexa 3.75mg solid form April 2020 to May 2020

Zyprexa 2.5mg solid form  May 2020 to September 2020

Zyprexa 2.5mg liquid form September to Mid October 2020 - couldnt sleep

Zyprexa 2.5mg solid form  Mid October 2020 to present

Red Wine daily approx upto 1 litre, Mid October 2020 to present

Supplements:   Day Vitamin C and E, B complex, Multi vitamin, Fish Oil, Swisse - Memory + Focus, 1000 mg Magnesium, Swisse - Sleep, Bioglan - Sleep Tablets (6x Meletonin) - not prescriptions 

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Glosmom

Yes, you have found the right website to start from!  You are on the right track and have a good mindset. Not rushing the process is one of the key factors to a successful taper.  Give yourself credit for having found your way here and knowing your reading and research will bring you a wealth of helpful information.  

 

There are not as many antipsychotic tapering stories on SA as there are antidepressants, but they are here. Rupa and erer's titles have different names but both of them ultimately tapered zyprexa/olanzapine successfully by using a liquid form.  I have included their threads below. 

 

Healing and peace to you on you journey, Glosmom

 

 


2016 - Oct -Daughter started Risperdal (for steroid induced psychosis that never went away after stopping prednisone)

Nov - dose increases stopped at 1.5mg in Dec

2017 - Jan- weaned from 1.5 to 1.0 in 2 weeks then 1.0 to .5 in two weeks and then off. Feb. 3 weeks of increased psychosis, pacing, insomnia, other awful symptoms so late Feb  - Back on 1.5 mg Risperdal. May  - decrease to 1.25mg, two weeks later 1.0mg - symptoms started again. June - held steady at 1.25mg for 6 weeks and switched to liquid (3 ml syringe). July - started 10% taper every 3 weeks, October -  .8 mg, December - .7 mg .

2018 -Jan- 0.65 mg,  Feb- 0.59,  Mar-0.50, late April - .40mg, July- .36 mg, Aug - switched from 3 mL syringe to 1 mL syringe for more accuracy (her dad and i were not sure we were giving her the same dose when in between the 'dashes' on the 3 mL syringe.) Aug -.30 mg (3mL syr)/.44 mg (1 mL syr) difference due to med in the tip of both syringes). Sept- .28 mg (3mL syr)/.42 mg (1 mL syr). Oct - .16 mg (3 mL syr)/.30 mg (1 mL syr). Nov.- .06mg (3mL syr)/.20 mg (1mLsyr). Dec. - tip only/unmeasurable (3mL syr)/.10 mg (1mLsyr)

2019- Jan -.06 mg (1 mL syr), Feb- .025 mg (1 mL syr), Feb 27, 2019 - jumped to zero!!

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hayduke

Hi Morgana,

 

It's a long road but seems it can be done with some patience.  Most people who have major problems show up here after cold turkey which is a bit of a bucking bronco.  If you ride it down gently and smoothly and tend the garden as you go instead, I reckon you'll probably be fine.

 

Many helpful ppl on the same road on the forums here.

 

I answered about liquid titration over in rrsfc's thread but I'll add it here as well.  Rhi here was the one who figured out you can easily and reliably make a suspension with the plain tablets.

 

Cheers


*** I am not a health professional - your actions are your own ***

 

My taper visualised as a graph   |   My intro thread

 

10mg olanzapine 2003-06.  3mg risperidone 2006-2014 gave slight weight loss but mediocre sleep.  Abrupt x-taper to try aripiprazole Dec 2014 increasingly restless (Freddy the blind man could've seen that coming, shame about the pdoc) then back onto 10mg olanzapine after 3 weeks.

Round 1:  2015 10 -> 7 1/2 -> 6 2/3 -> 5mg olanzapine.   Hadn't researched, just decided to try it myself with pill cutter.  Easy enough.  Next cut to 3 1/3mg for 2 weeks had me struggling to function.  Reverted to 5mg, thought that was as far as I could go.

Round 2:  Given Breggin to read, found SA.  Taper from 5 to 2.5mg over five months.  Titrate liquid suspension using Rhi's method.  Cuts and holds all done by feel.  All samples at start of month in mg:

2018:  Feb 5.0 | Mar 4.5 | Apr 4.25 | May 3.7 | Jun 3.3 | Jul 3.1 | Aug 2.9 | Sep 2.5 and six month hold

Round 3:  2.5mg and below.  EMDR work unearthed and resolved root trauma at around 2.1mg

2019:  Jan 2.5 | Feb 2.3 | Mar 2.215 / EMDR / Apr 1.976 | May 1.875 | Jun 1.825 | Jul 1.625 | Aug 1.525 | Sep 1.46 | Oct 1.3 | Nov 1.225 | Dec 1.25

2020:  Jan 1.214 | Feb 1.1 | Mar 1.0 🙂 | Apr 0.88 | May 0.82 | June 0.74 | July 0.69 | Aug 0.61 | Sep 0.59 | Oct 0.525

‘If you think you’re enlightened, spend a week with your family.’  -- Ram Dass

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morgana

thankyou for your advice, and will read..thankyou for replying, i need support....


Diagnosed with Depression, Borderline Personality Disorder and Schizo-effective Disorder. 

Cipramil  40mg  1996 to October 2017 stopped cold turkey

Zyprexa 10mg solid form  1996 to October 2017

Zyprexa 7.5mg solid form  October 2017 to October 2018

Zyprexa 5mg solid form  October 2018 to April 2020

Zyprexa 3.75mg solid form April 2020 to May 2020

Zyprexa 2.5mg solid form  May 2020 to September 2020

Zyprexa 2.5mg liquid form September to Mid October 2020 - couldnt sleep

Zyprexa 2.5mg solid form  Mid October 2020 to present

Red Wine daily approx upto 1 litre, Mid October 2020 to present

Supplements:   Day Vitamin C and E, B complex, Multi vitamin, Fish Oil, Swisse - Memory + Focus, 1000 mg Magnesium, Swisse - Sleep, Bioglan - Sleep Tablets (6x Meletonin) - not prescriptions 

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manymoretodays

Hi morgana and welcome!

 

I saw your most recent post over on spreadsheets.

The spreadsheets can be helpful, but one can also do the calculations by hand, or with a calculator.  It's not mandatory that one use a spreadsheet.

For example:

If you decide to try a 10% drop in 6 months time, from your present dose of 2.5 mg of Zyprexa:

2.5 mg X .90 = 2.25 mg  , which then is the dose of a 10% drop  (the X is for multiply, hopefully this makes sense to an Aussie B))

If you wanted to try 5%:

2.5 X  .95 = 2.375 mg,   representing the 5% taper from the 2.5 mg dose.  Or 2.38 mg, if you need to round up from the 3rd number after the decimal, a good rule of thumb is to round up if above .005 and down if below .005........this one came out right on the line so I rounded up

 

To do just a 2.5% reduction, you would take your current dose and then multipy by .975

 

With subsequent reductions(tapers) you recalculate based on the last dose. 

This is gone over in the:  Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

So after the first 10% reduction from 2.5 mg and waiting 4-6 weeks, at least.......then you would calculate your next drop from 2.25 mg

2.25 mg X .90 = 2.025 mg

 

......just to give you an idea of how it would go

It's always better to base your tapers on how you feel too, not just on the calendar.  That's what I found.

 

And I think that one of toughest obstacles with Zyprexa might be in regaining the ability to sleep normally.........I mean I agree with you there.  I came off of it years ago and that was the case.  I was on other medications as well at that time though.  That's really good that you are just dealing with the one medication now. 

 

I think you are doing good, in developing a plan and strategy well before tapering again.  You went down by larger percentages up to now and if you do decide to wait even more than 6 months to resume tapering, that's okay too.

 

I did my final taper doing the math on paper, several times to check and recheck.  I just used some algebra I think.......cross equations or something like that.

 

If you do make your own suspension, or even if you switch to a pharmacy made compound.........just don't taper when you initially make the switch.  Adjust to the change in delivery before tapering. 

 

Just wanted to say hi and welcome you aboard.

Love, peace, healing, and growth,

manymoretodays(mmt)

 

 

 


Started with psycho meds circa 1988 I think 27 or 28 total.

AD's, antpsychotics, antiseizure mood stabilizers. Lithium, lamictal ,benzos, and stimulants. Some med. for narcolepsy once(Provigil,) Gabapentin........probably more.  Ask me?......I probably was on it.  Haphazard W/D's by Dr. recommend or uneducated self.

10/2014- off Lexapro--had been on highest dose 10 mg. then 5 mg. for a couple of years, went from 5 mg. to 3 mg. liquid and then CT in hospital(voluntary).  I got out of the hospital on a combination of low dose adderal salts x1/day and trileptal 150mg. x2/day.

5/28/2015-off Adderal salts 2.5mg. (I had been on that since hospital 10/2014)

12/2015---just holding, holding, holding, with trileptal/oxcarb at 75 mg. 1/2 tab at hs.  My last psycho med ever!

 

3/21/2016---I did some unwise updosing of trileptal/oxcarbazepine with some stressful stuff......doubled the above dose x2 during this last wave but began liquifying again and on approximately 68mg. starting today.  11/12//2016 24 mg. oxcarbazepine  12/9/2016 off oxcarbazepine/trileptal!!!! :) optimistic  2016 December 9- completely off all medications!!!!!

Omega3's,EPA +DHA= 1800 mg/day. Magnesium complex, orally, diluted in a liter of H2O(that I can shake up.....it usually dissolves more completely as the water gets down to room temperature) and/or Epsom salt baths prn.   Vit. C, D3, and E.  B12, melatonin tapered to 1mg., and bioidentical hormones sublingually.  Trace mineral drops.  L-lysine.  L-methylfolate=400 mcg plus daily spinach. Totally ready for a good long window to hit soon and getting better strings of full days and partial days along the way.  Definite improvement overall since I first arrived on the SA survivor ship.  Herb and alcohol free since 5/15/2016.  None of my posts are intended as medical advice.  Please discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical provider. manymoretodays

 

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morgana

thankyou so much, that is very helpful,...i relised if i was shaving the tablet and weighing it  that would be how i would do it....long process tho!. 

 

however if i was to use liquid such as water i would dissolve the tablet in a 250ml glass  

 

for example i dissolve my 2.5mg tablet into a 250ml glass of water stir and using a suringe take out 10mls or 5mls of solution from the glass and dispose of, drink the rest, than next month ..fill my 250ml glass of water and using a suringe take out 20mls and dispose of and drink rest.. ant then take out 30mls from the 250mls cup ....and keep doing that until all the 250ml glass that i am slowly drinking disappears over the year....can i do it that way...that would be easier

 

if i can buy a suspension solution to put my tablet in...wouldnt it?. that would be sooo much easier? or isnt the calculations doing it that way....that easy?  lol  let me know...and thankyou sooo much for your advice...i had been doing it way too fast with all my drops just basically reducing by what prescription amounts the  pills came in...however i really want to do it properly and only once...

 

and the only reason stopping me from getting of this **** is if i cannot sleep! since reducing my medication....my hallucinations have basically dissappeared....i only started having hallucinations when i went on anti depressants...and they continued constantly while on large amounts of drugs....now that i am on such a small amount....i feel great, i feel more connected with being in my body...i do not feel depressed anymore, i am connecting with people better, i am studying full time i am starting to feel alive...and i never want to go back and so i want to do it slowly and correctly only once....i am really glad i found this site..and thankyou to everyone who gives me advice and support as i hope one day in the future i could be of support to someone else.  cheers

Edited by manymoretodays
spacing, for readability

Diagnosed with Depression, Borderline Personality Disorder and Schizo-effective Disorder. 

Cipramil  40mg  1996 to October 2017 stopped cold turkey

Zyprexa 10mg solid form  1996 to October 2017

Zyprexa 7.5mg solid form  October 2017 to October 2018

Zyprexa 5mg solid form  October 2018 to April 2020

Zyprexa 3.75mg solid form April 2020 to May 2020

Zyprexa 2.5mg solid form  May 2020 to September 2020

Zyprexa 2.5mg liquid form September to Mid October 2020 - couldnt sleep

Zyprexa 2.5mg solid form  Mid October 2020 to present

Red Wine daily approx upto 1 litre, Mid October 2020 to present

Supplements:   Day Vitamin C and E, B complex, Multi vitamin, Fish Oil, Swisse - Memory + Focus, 1000 mg Magnesium, Swisse - Sleep, Bioglan - Sleep Tablets (6x Meletonin) - not prescriptions 

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Glosmom
15 hours ago, morgana said:

now that i am on such a small amount....i feel great, i feel more connected with being in my body...i do not feel depressed anymore, i am connecting with people better, i am studying full time i am starting to feel alive...and i never want to go back and so i want to do it slowly and correctly only once..

 

This is great news, @morgana.  Make sure to refer back to these positive comments and times if in the instance you struggle with any withdrawal symptoms.   I agree completely with @manymoretodays  that tapering antipsychotics can, and usually do, disrupt sleep patterns.   If you can associate the fact that your sleep is impaired with the fact that you are tapering an antipsychotic then it is easier to be more logical and less emotional about the fact that is happening.   The human body is amazingly resilient even with fewer hours of sleep than we 'think' we should get.   My daughter, Glo, began struggling with insomnia during her tapering and for many months after which meant that I also was up with her all of those nights (she is a special needs girl so needed care even before her run in with an antipsychotic.) So we have gone through the insomnia together...funny but not funny :)

Do your best to not let the fact that you aren't getting ideal sleep get in the way of all of the progress you mentioned above.  You are doing a great job with getting all your ducks in a row for a successful taper!  Best wishes to you, Glosmom


2016 - Oct -Daughter started Risperdal (for steroid induced psychosis that never went away after stopping prednisone)

Nov - dose increases stopped at 1.5mg in Dec

2017 - Jan- weaned from 1.5 to 1.0 in 2 weeks then 1.0 to .5 in two weeks and then off. Feb. 3 weeks of increased psychosis, pacing, insomnia, other awful symptoms so late Feb  - Back on 1.5 mg Risperdal. May  - decrease to 1.25mg, two weeks later 1.0mg - symptoms started again. June - held steady at 1.25mg for 6 weeks and switched to liquid (3 ml syringe). July - started 10% taper every 3 weeks, October -  .8 mg, December - .7 mg .

2018 -Jan- 0.65 mg,  Feb- 0.59,  Mar-0.50, late April - .40mg, July- .36 mg, Aug - switched from 3 mL syringe to 1 mL syringe for more accuracy (her dad and i were not sure we were giving her the same dose when in between the 'dashes' on the 3 mL syringe.) Aug -.30 mg (3mL syr)/.44 mg (1 mL syr) difference due to med in the tip of both syringes). Sept- .28 mg (3mL syr)/.42 mg (1 mL syr). Oct - .16 mg (3 mL syr)/.30 mg (1 mL syr). Nov.- .06mg (3mL syr)/.20 mg (1mLsyr). Dec. - tip only/unmeasurable (3mL syr)/.10 mg (1mLsyr)

2019- Jan -.06 mg (1 mL syr), Feb- .025 mg (1 mL syr), Feb 27, 2019 - jumped to zero!!

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manymoretodays
19 hours ago, morgana said:

for example i dissolve my 2.5mg tablet into a 250ml glass of water stir and using a suringe take out 10mls or 5mls of solution from the glass and dispose of, drink the rest, than next month ..fill my 250ml glass of water and using a suringe take out 20mls and dispose of and drink rest.. ant then take out 30mls from the 250mls cup ....and keep doing that until all the 250ml glass that i am slowly drinking disappears over the year....can i do it that way...that would be easier

 

Hi morgana,

Not a good idea to keep a homemade solution or suspension for a year.  Or sometimes even 2 weeks.  Even a pharmacy made suspension expires after 14 days.

Generally, 3- 7 days is the maximum time to keep a homemade solution, as they can degrade and lose potency.

You may have to make a solution every day if you do it yourself.

 

Once you start tapering again........boy, if I were you, I think I would stretch it out beyond one year. 

 

And at first, when you cross over to liquid, you'd be taking the entire amount in one day.  To see how that goes........waiting for a couple of weeks to a month before tapering at all again.

When you do your first taper, if 10%, you wouldn't have enough left for even another days dose.

 

I think you will be mixing daily for awhile.  And it's not so bad.......I did homemade solution with my last drug and mixed every 3 days.

 

 

Also, when making homemade solutions, I'd recommend protecting it from light and heat.  Amber colored glass containers and storage in the fridge is always a good idea.

A little more about that here:  How to make a liquid from tablets or capsules

                                                     Using an oral syringe and other tapering techniques

                  and again:                Tips for tapering off Zyprexa(olanzapine)

 

With 250 mL of water for your dilution.........you'd be getting .01 mg per each mL. 

Then each 10 mL has approximately 0.1 mg in it.

Each 100 mL has 1 mg in it.

 

I'm really just doing the math here, while I think about it all.

 

You could start to shop around online to find a good container for mixing, and maybe some oral syringes.  Just shop for now.  Online.  Amazon is often good.  I meant to say just look now.....don't buy quite yet.  You want something with markings on the side for measuring your water.  With a lid so you can shake up your mixture really well.   And then, at least for now a good sized syringe, I think a 10 mL one might be good......to remove some of the solution when you do start tapering.  Find something that looks like you could even travel with it too, for convenience sake.

 

 

We're not necessarily looking for "easy" here.  We are looking for a consistent way to measure your dose, and accuracy.

 

And I know you want to get on off Zyprexa, it's a nasty one.  Some consolation in that, the lower doses are not as bad overall, in causing some of the side effects.

A reasonable taper, once started, might be able, to get you down to 1.25 mg over a years time.  Maybe you'll tolerate tapers every 2 weeks........you'll know when we get to that point.  Zyprexa can have an awful withdrawal psychosis.  We want to avoid that or any disruptions in your thinking and organization of thoughts now!

 

Ultimately, it's up to you to decide.  I don't want you to go too, too fast and wind up getting re-medicated.  I do hope however that, we can safely, help you get your dose down even further in the next year.

 

I am really glad you are doing so well too, with the exception of sleep.  Try and work on that for right now.

 

Tips to help sleep

^ there's an indexed list to addition topics too, in the first post.

 

Keep us updated with your present wellness, and let's continue discussing the practical aspects.  I'm excited for you!  And oh, try not to party, or at least don't partake in any alcohol or drug use with friends for a good while.  I mean you could hang out, and just drink herbal teas or ginger ale and be the really cool one that way.

 

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

 

 

Edited by manymoretodays

Started with psycho meds circa 1988 I think 27 or 28 total.

AD's, antpsychotics, antiseizure mood stabilizers. Lithium, lamictal ,benzos, and stimulants. Some med. for narcolepsy once(Provigil,) Gabapentin........probably more.  Ask me?......I probably was on it.  Haphazard W/D's by Dr. recommend or uneducated self.

10/2014- off Lexapro--had been on highest dose 10 mg. then 5 mg. for a couple of years, went from 5 mg. to 3 mg. liquid and then CT in hospital(voluntary).  I got out of the hospital on a combination of low dose adderal salts x1/day and trileptal 150mg. x2/day.

5/28/2015-off Adderal salts 2.5mg. (I had been on that since hospital 10/2014)

12/2015---just holding, holding, holding, with trileptal/oxcarb at 75 mg. 1/2 tab at hs.  My last psycho med ever!

 

3/21/2016---I did some unwise updosing of trileptal/oxcarbazepine with some stressful stuff......doubled the above dose x2 during this last wave but began liquifying again and on approximately 68mg. starting today.  11/12//2016 24 mg. oxcarbazepine  12/9/2016 off oxcarbazepine/trileptal!!!! :) optimistic  2016 December 9- completely off all medications!!!!!

Omega3's,EPA +DHA= 1800 mg/day. Magnesium complex, orally, diluted in a liter of H2O(that I can shake up.....it usually dissolves more completely as the water gets down to room temperature) and/or Epsom salt baths prn.   Vit. C, D3, and E.  B12, melatonin tapered to 1mg., and bioidentical hormones sublingually.  Trace mineral drops.  L-lysine.  L-methylfolate=400 mcg plus daily spinach. Totally ready for a good long window to hit soon and getting better strings of full days and partial days along the way.  Definite improvement overall since I first arrived on the SA survivor ship.  Herb and alcohol free since 5/15/2016.  None of my posts are intended as medical advice.  Please discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical provider. manymoretodays

 

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morgana

thankyou glosman and manymoredays....thankyou for your support....i remember upto the age of 26 years old where i had never taken these medications, i slept like a baby for 1o hours staight, i dreamed a little but had a good deep sleep...than i was put on anti depressants, thats when i started staying up all night, giggling too my self (i would always giggle for no reason on high dosages of anti depressants), very vivid nightmares and trippy dreams, than they put me on anti--pyschotics, again my dreams became that vivid that i felt i was watching full on television throughtout my whole night, i couldnt tell what was a dream and what was real.  The only way i could sleep basically if i drank myself to sleep...this is what i had done for the past 24 years...I gave up alcohol 2 years ago just after i started my cutting back on meds. So as i have slowly reduced my medication, my trippy, vivid dreams have disappeared however i do not have that deep sleep...i sleep for 10 hours now, i am not tossing or turning, i am relaxed, i am not thinking about anything, i just dont have that deep sleep!  I get out of bed in the morning and think god i wished i could sleep properly...i just dont feel refreshed like you do when you go into a nice deep sleep....havnt experienced that now for 24 years now...when i was on 10mg of zyprexa, i did sleep but it was full of vivid dreams, now i dont have the vivid dreams but not the deep sleep...i guess only time will tell....thankyou for listening cheers morgana


Diagnosed with Depression, Borderline Personality Disorder and Schizo-effective Disorder. 

Cipramil  40mg  1996 to October 2017 stopped cold turkey

Zyprexa 10mg solid form  1996 to October 2017

Zyprexa 7.5mg solid form  October 2017 to October 2018

Zyprexa 5mg solid form  October 2018 to April 2020

Zyprexa 3.75mg solid form April 2020 to May 2020

Zyprexa 2.5mg solid form  May 2020 to September 2020

Zyprexa 2.5mg liquid form September to Mid October 2020 - couldnt sleep

Zyprexa 2.5mg solid form  Mid October 2020 to present

Red Wine daily approx upto 1 litre, Mid October 2020 to present

Supplements:   Day Vitamin C and E, B complex, Multi vitamin, Fish Oil, Swisse - Memory + Focus, 1000 mg Magnesium, Swisse - Sleep, Bioglan - Sleep Tablets (6x Meletonin) - not prescriptions 

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morgana

Hello dont know if anyone can help me.....i have been on 2.5mg of zyprexa for 5 months now.....and am wondering if i could start dissolving my 2.5mg tablet in 25ml of water and drinking it instead of swallowing it each night.....i thought i could do it that way for the next 6 months to get my body use to it.....before i start reducing my dosage.....does anyone think this is the right way to go about it?

 

Let me know

 

cheers

 

Morgana

 


Diagnosed with Depression, Borderline Personality Disorder and Schizo-effective Disorder. 

Cipramil  40mg  1996 to October 2017 stopped cold turkey

Zyprexa 10mg solid form  1996 to October 2017

Zyprexa 7.5mg solid form  October 2017 to October 2018

Zyprexa 5mg solid form  October 2018 to April 2020

Zyprexa 3.75mg solid form April 2020 to May 2020

Zyprexa 2.5mg solid form  May 2020 to September 2020

Zyprexa 2.5mg liquid form September to Mid October 2020 - couldnt sleep

Zyprexa 2.5mg solid form  Mid October 2020 to present

Red Wine daily approx upto 1 litre, Mid October 2020 to present

Supplements:   Day Vitamin C and E, B complex, Multi vitamin, Fish Oil, Swisse - Memory + Focus, 1000 mg Magnesium, Swisse - Sleep, Bioglan - Sleep Tablets (6x Meletonin) - not prescriptions 

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hayduke

Sure, Morgana.  You might notice a bit of a difference in how it feels while switching to the liquid.  It's good to get used to that before starting the taper.  I found it was a pretty mild difference, had no worries with it


*** I am not a health professional - your actions are your own ***

 

My taper visualised as a graph   |   My intro thread

 

10mg olanzapine 2003-06.  3mg risperidone 2006-2014 gave slight weight loss but mediocre sleep.  Abrupt x-taper to try aripiprazole Dec 2014 increasingly restless (Freddy the blind man could've seen that coming, shame about the pdoc) then back onto 10mg olanzapine after 3 weeks.

Round 1:  2015 10 -> 7 1/2 -> 6 2/3 -> 5mg olanzapine.   Hadn't researched, just decided to try it myself with pill cutter.  Easy enough.  Next cut to 3 1/3mg for 2 weeks had me struggling to function.  Reverted to 5mg, thought that was as far as I could go.

Round 2:  Given Breggin to read, found SA.  Taper from 5 to 2.5mg over five months.  Titrate liquid suspension using Rhi's method.  Cuts and holds all done by feel.  All samples at start of month in mg:

2018:  Feb 5.0 | Mar 4.5 | Apr 4.25 | May 3.7 | Jun 3.3 | Jul 3.1 | Aug 2.9 | Sep 2.5 and six month hold

Round 3:  2.5mg and below.  EMDR work unearthed and resolved root trauma at around 2.1mg

2019:  Jan 2.5 | Feb 2.3 | Mar 2.215 / EMDR / Apr 1.976 | May 1.875 | Jun 1.825 | Jul 1.625 | Aug 1.525 | Sep 1.46 | Oct 1.3 | Nov 1.225 | Dec 1.25

2020:  Jan 1.214 | Feb 1.1 | Mar 1.0 🙂 | Apr 0.88 | May 0.82 | June 0.74 | July 0.69 | Aug 0.61 | Sep 0.59 | Oct 0.525

‘If you think you’re enlightened, spend a week with your family.’  -- Ram Dass

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ChessieCat

We generally suggestion doing a cross over when changing form of drug because it is gentle on the nervous system.  3-7 days on each combo:  3/4 old + 1/4 new, 1/2 + 1/2, 1/4 old + 3/4 new, then all new.  Or this (not as gentle though) 2/3 + 1/3, 1/2 + 1/2, 1/3 + 2/3.

 

Also note, you do not make a reduction at the same time.  It's also best not to make any other changes otherwise if any issues arise you won't know what is causing it/them.

 

Try to be as accurate as possible but because the dose you take will be made from one tablet, being a little bit inaccurate shouldn't be too much of an issue.  As a last resort you could always crush the up a bit between 2 spoons and divide it up from there.  Not the best option but probably better than going straight from tablet to liquid.


REMINDER TO SELF:

I don't need the drug now, but my still brain does.

ADs:  25 years - 1 unknown, Prozac (caused muscle weakness), Zoloft/sertraline; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after)

Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (mild Serotonin Toxicity)

Began tapering Oct 2015  Current from 17 Oct 2020:  Pristiq 0.56 mg (compounded + liquid)

My tapering program

My Intro (goes to my tapering graph)

My website - includes my brief history + links to videos & information on the web

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions.

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morgana

hello chessie cat, i just saw your post in response to me asking if it was ok to go from tablet form to liquid...i hadnt seen it, but you suggested taking it in a liquid and solid over a period of time....i didnt see it....i have only been taking it as liquid form since the 25th sept....i am basically not sleeping even thou i lay in bed for 12 hours...should i go back on the solid form ( i just dont want to go backwards) and than start incorporating liquid and solid and slowly change to liquid over weeks or months...any advice would be appreciated....cheers


Diagnosed with Depression, Borderline Personality Disorder and Schizo-effective Disorder. 

Cipramil  40mg  1996 to October 2017 stopped cold turkey

Zyprexa 10mg solid form  1996 to October 2017

Zyprexa 7.5mg solid form  October 2017 to October 2018

Zyprexa 5mg solid form  October 2018 to April 2020

Zyprexa 3.75mg solid form April 2020 to May 2020

Zyprexa 2.5mg solid form  May 2020 to September 2020

Zyprexa 2.5mg liquid form September to Mid October 2020 - couldnt sleep

Zyprexa 2.5mg solid form  Mid October 2020 to present

Red Wine daily approx upto 1 litre, Mid October 2020 to present

Supplements:   Day Vitamin C and E, B complex, Multi vitamin, Fish Oil, Swisse - Memory + Focus, 1000 mg Magnesium, Swisse - Sleep, Bioglan - Sleep Tablets (6x Meletonin) - not prescriptions 

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hayduke

Hi Morgana, sorry to hear you've been having a rough time of it.

 

You can notify someone by typing @ and then typing in a few letters of their screen name, and choosing it from the menu.  If you see the coloured highlight like @morgana, they'll get a quick note that you mentioned them. 

 

You've done a pretty steep jump from 5mg down to 2.5 over two months.  I think that's likely to be a large part of your trouble sleeping.  Also maybe why you're really noticing switching to liquid.  @ChessieCat should have a firmer answer for you, but if my sleep worsened on the same dose but liquid and didn't settle in 2-3 nights I'd probably look at going half and half as she suggested, or even 75:25.  Your 6 month hold sounds like a good idea.

 

Worth noting if you let the suspension sit for long after shaking/mixing/agitating, it won't be an even mixture and you might miss some. 

 

FWIW I did 5mg down to 2.5 in 5 months, and it felt like about as fast as I could do it and stay functional, though there was a fair bit of discomfort.  I held at 2.5 for six months after that before feeling settled for the next set.  Below 2.5 I've been going slower.

Hope that's some help,

Hayduke


*** I am not a health professional - your actions are your own ***

 

My taper visualised as a graph   |   My intro thread

 

10mg olanzapine 2003-06.  3mg risperidone 2006-2014 gave slight weight loss but mediocre sleep.  Abrupt x-taper to try aripiprazole Dec 2014 increasingly restless (Freddy the blind man could've seen that coming, shame about the pdoc) then back onto 10mg olanzapine after 3 weeks.

Round 1:  2015 10 -> 7 1/2 -> 6 2/3 -> 5mg olanzapine.   Hadn't researched, just decided to try it myself with pill cutter.  Easy enough.  Next cut to 3 1/3mg for 2 weeks had me struggling to function.  Reverted to 5mg, thought that was as far as I could go.

Round 2:  Given Breggin to read, found SA.  Taper from 5 to 2.5mg over five months.  Titrate liquid suspension using Rhi's method.  Cuts and holds all done by feel.  All samples at start of month in mg:

2018:  Feb 5.0 | Mar 4.5 | Apr 4.25 | May 3.7 | Jun 3.3 | Jul 3.1 | Aug 2.9 | Sep 2.5 and six month hold

Round 3:  2.5mg and below.  EMDR work unearthed and resolved root trauma at around 2.1mg

2019:  Jan 2.5 | Feb 2.3 | Mar 2.215 / EMDR / Apr 1.976 | May 1.875 | Jun 1.825 | Jul 1.625 | Aug 1.525 | Sep 1.46 | Oct 1.3 | Nov 1.225 | Dec 1.25

2020:  Jan 1.214 | Feb 1.1 | Mar 1.0 🙂 | Apr 0.88 | May 0.82 | June 0.74 | July 0.69 | Aug 0.61 | Sep 0.59 | Oct 0.525

‘If you think you’re enlightened, spend a week with your family.’  -- Ram Dass

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morgana

thankyou hayduke, i didnt realise how you contacted someone....thankyou for that, and thankyou for giving me some advice i need it, i am doing it tough....and wished i had someone to talk to who understood what i am going through......i notice in your drug history, you are still withdrawing, are you having any problems with sleep at the moment?  i also feel i just want to jump out of my skin, i have no reason to have anxiety, but my arms(only my arms) feel like they are going to explode from agitation....and at night when i am laying in bed, i get restless leg problems and have to keep moving, it feels like torture....i was going so well, for aleast 3 months on 2.5mg, i was getting enough sleep, i didnt feel that i wanted to jump out of my skin, i had felt so good...and now its terrible, my arms have a red aggressive burning rash on them, i have started drinking alcohol again, and living on junk food, which makes me feel even more agitated.  Do you feel agitated in your body? also being on zyprexa for so many years, i found i rarely thought, nothing really entered my mind, now my mind starts to think but its like it justs thinks in a repetitive way...over and over again.  Have you ever had this problem? any advice would be most appreciative....and i will half the tablet so i dilute half, and swollow the other half..see if that helps alittle..thankyou hayduke 


Diagnosed with Depression, Borderline Personality Disorder and Schizo-effective Disorder. 

Cipramil  40mg  1996 to October 2017 stopped cold turkey

Zyprexa 10mg solid form  1996 to October 2017

Zyprexa 7.5mg solid form  October 2017 to October 2018

Zyprexa 5mg solid form  October 2018 to April 2020

Zyprexa 3.75mg solid form April 2020 to May 2020

Zyprexa 2.5mg solid form  May 2020 to September 2020

Zyprexa 2.5mg liquid form September to Mid October 2020 - couldnt sleep

Zyprexa 2.5mg solid form  Mid October 2020 to present

Red Wine daily approx upto 1 litre, Mid October 2020 to present

Supplements:   Day Vitamin C and E, B complex, Multi vitamin, Fish Oil, Swisse - Memory + Focus, 1000 mg Magnesium, Swisse - Sleep, Bioglan - Sleep Tablets (6x Meletonin) - not prescriptions 

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hayduke

Glad to talk about this stuff.  I should stress I'm not a medical professional or anything - more sharing what's been working for me, and hopefully other people can find some use in that on their own journeys...we all learn as we go!

 

Sleep is one of the major factors in how fast you can get off this drug I think.  It's so sedating, and your body wants time to adapt to having less of it in your system.  My rule of thumb is something like if I have three nights in a row of six hours or less, I'll hold until I'm sleeping more comfortably before making another cut.  Unfortunately you're probably going to have to work out a strategy to stay calm and get what rest you can until you're sleeping better.  I'd even consider just going back onto the solid form tablet for a while if it was me, until rest improves.  You don't have to worry about a liquid until you're feeling ready to start the taper, and that sounds like it's going to be next year.

 

Do have a look at the sleep tips link that manymoretodays posted up there, there's a lot of wisdom on the forums to help with these things.

 

The restlessness is the worst, it's called akathisia and this drug seems to dish out quite a lot.  It seems dopamine related, and during wds it's been worst when making big cuts, and aggravated by drinking and weed, when I was smoking that regularly.  It's a bit of a bugger when you go to have a bevvy to relax, the dopamine gets released and then you get those horrible tingles.

 

The sleep and akathisia should settle as you hold.  The rash sounds more alarming though - you should get to a GP you trust ASAP and have it checked out just in case - there is a known problem rash with olanzapine that can lead to organ failure!

 

Show them this https://healthunits.com/news/olanzapine-side-effects/

 

I also had a lot of symptoms the awful original prescriber didn't care about so please look after yourself, and let us know how you go.

 

 


*** I am not a health professional - your actions are your own ***

 

My taper visualised as a graph   |   My intro thread

 

10mg olanzapine 2003-06.  3mg risperidone 2006-2014 gave slight weight loss but mediocre sleep.  Abrupt x-taper to try aripiprazole Dec 2014 increasingly restless (Freddy the blind man could've seen that coming, shame about the pdoc) then back onto 10mg olanzapine after 3 weeks.

Round 1:  2015 10 -> 7 1/2 -> 6 2/3 -> 5mg olanzapine.   Hadn't researched, just decided to try it myself with pill cutter.  Easy enough.  Next cut to 3 1/3mg for 2 weeks had me struggling to function.  Reverted to 5mg, thought that was as far as I could go.

Round 2:  Given Breggin to read, found SA.  Taper from 5 to 2.5mg over five months.  Titrate liquid suspension using Rhi's method.  Cuts and holds all done by feel.  All samples at start of month in mg:

2018:  Feb 5.0 | Mar 4.5 | Apr 4.25 | May 3.7 | Jun 3.3 | Jul 3.1 | Aug 2.9 | Sep 2.5 and six month hold

Round 3:  2.5mg and below.  EMDR work unearthed and resolved root trauma at around 2.1mg

2019:  Jan 2.5 | Feb 2.3 | Mar 2.215 / EMDR / Apr 1.976 | May 1.875 | Jun 1.825 | Jul 1.625 | Aug 1.525 | Sep 1.46 | Oct 1.3 | Nov 1.225 | Dec 1.25

2020:  Jan 1.214 | Feb 1.1 | Mar 1.0 🙂 | Apr 0.88 | May 0.82 | June 0.74 | July 0.69 | Aug 0.61 | Sep 0.59 | Oct 0.525

‘If you think you’re enlightened, spend a week with your family.’  -- Ram Dass

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morgana

thankyou hayduke, thanks for the advice, i think i will go back to taking the full tablet and swollowing it, just until i get my sleep alittle better and this horrible akathesia, yeah the tingling in my arms is the worst.....i have had pancritis doctors said it was due to drinking alcohol but wouldnt be surprised if it was caused by zyprexa....doctors said it wasnt.  I have had all the tests done and my liver is fine....i was digging up a tree in my garden the other day and loads of ants on it, hopefully the rash is just due to the ants all over my arms biting me....lol.  I have been reading your journey, i am glad i am not the only one going through this on zyprexa...steven i think is also going through it...he is finding the sleep difficult as well...and I noticed your Australian......you talk about cold weather...you must be from the south...thats why i moved to Cairns....lol...thankyou for the support....oh and i figured out how to use the spreedsheet....yah!, not that i will be needing until next year but least i can play with it and get an idea how it works, also saw your graph you did...i tried working out how to open a graph, but thats something i can also play with....cheers M


Diagnosed with Depression, Borderline Personality Disorder and Schizo-effective Disorder. 

Cipramil  40mg  1996 to October 2017 stopped cold turkey

Zyprexa 10mg solid form  1996 to October 2017

Zyprexa 7.5mg solid form  October 2017 to October 2018

Zyprexa 5mg solid form  October 2018 to April 2020

Zyprexa 3.75mg solid form April 2020 to May 2020

Zyprexa 2.5mg solid form  May 2020 to September 2020

Zyprexa 2.5mg liquid form September to Mid October 2020 - couldnt sleep

Zyprexa 2.5mg solid form  Mid October 2020 to present

Red Wine daily approx upto 1 litre, Mid October 2020 to present

Supplements:   Day Vitamin C and E, B complex, Multi vitamin, Fish Oil, Swisse - Memory + Focus, 1000 mg Magnesium, Swisse - Sleep, Bioglan - Sleep Tablets (6x Meletonin) - not prescriptions 

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hayduke

Yep I'm in the south, I did a year in Brisvegas years ago and finally understood watching the cricket...if you've melted into a puddle on the floor it's about the right pace!

 

 Hope you're feeling a bit better


*** I am not a health professional - your actions are your own ***

 

My taper visualised as a graph   |   My intro thread

 

10mg olanzapine 2003-06.  3mg risperidone 2006-2014 gave slight weight loss but mediocre sleep.  Abrupt x-taper to try aripiprazole Dec 2014 increasingly restless (Freddy the blind man could've seen that coming, shame about the pdoc) then back onto 10mg olanzapine after 3 weeks.

Round 1:  2015 10 -> 7 1/2 -> 6 2/3 -> 5mg olanzapine.   Hadn't researched, just decided to try it myself with pill cutter.  Easy enough.  Next cut to 3 1/3mg for 2 weeks had me struggling to function.  Reverted to 5mg, thought that was as far as I could go.

Round 2:  Given Breggin to read, found SA.  Taper from 5 to 2.5mg over five months.  Titrate liquid suspension using Rhi's method.  Cuts and holds all done by feel.  All samples at start of month in mg:

2018:  Feb 5.0 | Mar 4.5 | Apr 4.25 | May 3.7 | Jun 3.3 | Jul 3.1 | Aug 2.9 | Sep 2.5 and six month hold

Round 3:  2.5mg and below.  EMDR work unearthed and resolved root trauma at around 2.1mg

2019:  Jan 2.5 | Feb 2.3 | Mar 2.215 / EMDR / Apr 1.976 | May 1.875 | Jun 1.825 | Jul 1.625 | Aug 1.525 | Sep 1.46 | Oct 1.3 | Nov 1.225 | Dec 1.25

2020:  Jan 1.214 | Feb 1.1 | Mar 1.0 🙂 | Apr 0.88 | May 0.82 | June 0.74 | July 0.69 | Aug 0.61 | Sep 0.59 | Oct 0.525

‘If you think you’re enlightened, spend a week with your family.’  -- Ram Dass

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manymoretodays

Hi morgana,

Did you go to the liquid already?  And did you see Ccat's advice on crossing over, doing a gradual shift from the tablet/pill to liquid?

 

And okay, I'm seeing that you did not.   And I wish I had covered that, right at the start.

On 10/3/2020 at 9:59 PM, morgana said:

hello chessie cat, i just saw your post in response to me asking if it was ok to go from tablet form to liquid...i hadnt seen it, but you suggested taking it in a liquid and solid over a period of time....i didnt see it....i have only been taking it as liquid form since the 25th sept....i am basically not sleeping even thou i lay in bed for 12 hours...should i go back on the solid form ( i just dont want to go backwards) and than start incorporating liquid and solid and slowly change to liquid over weeks or months...any advice would be appreciated....cheers

 

However,  I don't think it would be going backward.......not at all, right now........if you want to even try taking 1/2 of your dose in liquid and 1/2 of your dose in solid form.

And you are still taking 2.5 mg?

If you are still not sleeping, and having other symptoms, after a trial of that, I think, if I were you, I would just go back to solid form, the 2.5 mg.

Then when you are in a good place again........we can creep more cautiously onto the liquid in slow increments.  All before tapering any further.

 

I hope you have not reduced your dose yet.  I think, as I said before, at least 6 mos before any further tapers would be really, really the best.  And it doesn't appear that you have. 

 

On 10/5/2020 at 9:25 PM, morgana said:

thankyou hayduke, thanks for the advice, i think i will go back to taking the full tablet and swollowing it, just until i get my sleep alittle better and this horrible akathesia, yeah the tingling in my arms is the worst.....i have had pancritis doctors said it was due to drinking alcohol but wouldnt be surprised if it was caused by zyprexa....doctors said it wasnt.  I have had all the tests done and my liver is fine....i was digging up a tree in my garden the other day and loads of ants on it, hopefully the rash is just due to the ants all over my arms biting me....lol.  I have been reading your journey, i am glad i am not the only one going through this on zyprexa...steven i think is also going through it...he is finding the sleep difficult as well...and I noticed your Australian......you talk about cold weather...you must be from the south...thats why i moved to Cairns....lol...thankyou for the support....oh and i figured out how to use the spreedsheet....yah!, not that i will be needing until next year but least i can play with it and get an idea how it works, also saw your graph you did...i tried working out how to open a graph, but thats something i can also play with....cheers M

 

And thank you hayduke, for helping out here too.  Appreciated!

 

So you are back on the 2.5 mg tablet now, morgana?  And for how long now?

 

Thankyou.  L, P, H, and G,

mmt

 

 

 

 

 


Started with psycho meds circa 1988 I think 27 or 28 total.

AD's, antpsychotics, antiseizure mood stabilizers. Lithium, lamictal ,benzos, and stimulants. Some med. for narcolepsy once(Provigil,) Gabapentin........probably more.  Ask me?......I probably was on it.  Haphazard W/D's by Dr. recommend or uneducated self.

10/2014- off Lexapro--had been on highest dose 10 mg. then 5 mg. for a couple of years, went from 5 mg. to 3 mg. liquid and then CT in hospital(voluntary).  I got out of the hospital on a combination of low dose adderal salts x1/day and trileptal 150mg. x2/day.

5/28/2015-off Adderal salts 2.5mg. (I had been on that since hospital 10/2014)

12/2015---just holding, holding, holding, with trileptal/oxcarb at 75 mg. 1/2 tab at hs.  My last psycho med ever!

 

3/21/2016---I did some unwise updosing of trileptal/oxcarbazepine with some stressful stuff......doubled the above dose x2 during this last wave but began liquifying again and on approximately 68mg. starting today.  11/12//2016 24 mg. oxcarbazepine  12/9/2016 off oxcarbazepine/trileptal!!!! :) optimistic  2016 December 9- completely off all medications!!!!!

Omega3's,EPA +DHA= 1800 mg/day. Magnesium complex, orally, diluted in a liter of H2O(that I can shake up.....it usually dissolves more completely as the water gets down to room temperature) and/or Epsom salt baths prn.   Vit. C, D3, and E.  B12, melatonin tapered to 1mg., and bioidentical hormones sublingually.  Trace mineral drops.  L-lysine.  L-methylfolate=400 mcg plus daily spinach. Totally ready for a good long window to hit soon and getting better strings of full days and partial days along the way.  Definite improvement overall since I first arrived on the SA survivor ship.  Herb and alcohol free since 5/15/2016.  None of my posts are intended as medical advice.  Please discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical provider. manymoretodays

 

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morgana

i am doing better, thanks for asking hayduke....hey i am just wondering...do you, or have you since being on zyprexa or from when you have been tapering off it, how is your memory? Did your memory get really bad? has it gotten better? was it ever a problem?  I am studying Horticulture at the moment i do not remember anything i am being told, its like i just do not take it in, let alone retain it!...it worries me, has my ability to think, and remember gone for good, i worry!  does anyone else have these problems? let me know cheers. do you have this problem only if you take anti pychotic, or do people also experience these problems just from taking anti depressents....just wondering, or am i just plain stupid!.


Diagnosed with Depression, Borderline Personality Disorder and Schizo-effective Disorder. 

Cipramil  40mg  1996 to October 2017 stopped cold turkey

Zyprexa 10mg solid form  1996 to October 2017

Zyprexa 7.5mg solid form  October 2017 to October 2018

Zyprexa 5mg solid form  October 2018 to April 2020

Zyprexa 3.75mg solid form April 2020 to May 2020

Zyprexa 2.5mg solid form  May 2020 to September 2020

Zyprexa 2.5mg liquid form September to Mid October 2020 - couldnt sleep

Zyprexa 2.5mg solid form  Mid October 2020 to present

Red Wine daily approx upto 1 litre, Mid October 2020 to present

Supplements:   Day Vitamin C and E, B complex, Multi vitamin, Fish Oil, Swisse - Memory + Focus, 1000 mg Magnesium, Swisse - Sleep, Bioglan - Sleep Tablets (6x Meletonin) - not prescriptions 

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ChessieCat
27 minutes ago, morgana said:

do people also experience these problems just from taking anti depressents

 

Yes members taking/withdrawing from antidepressants do post that they experience issues with their memory.


REMINDER TO SELF:

I don't need the drug now, but my still brain does.

ADs:  25 years - 1 unknown, Prozac (caused muscle weakness), Zoloft/sertraline; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after)

Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (mild Serotonin Toxicity)

Began tapering Oct 2015  Current from 17 Oct 2020:  Pristiq 0.56 mg (compounded + liquid)

My tapering program

My Intro (goes to my tapering graph)

My website - includes my brief history + links to videos & information on the web

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions.

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ChessieCat

REMINDER TO SELF:

I don't need the drug now, but my still brain does.

ADs:  25 years - 1 unknown, Prozac (caused muscle weakness), Zoloft/sertraline; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after)

Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (mild Serotonin Toxicity)

Began tapering Oct 2015  Current from 17 Oct 2020:  Pristiq 0.56 mg (compounded + liquid)

My tapering program

My Intro (goes to my tapering graph)

My website - includes my brief history + links to videos & information on the web

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions.

Share this post


Link to post
ChessieCat

REMINDER TO SELF:

I don't need the drug now, but my still brain does.

ADs:  25 years - 1 unknown, Prozac (caused muscle weakness), Zoloft/sertraline; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after)

Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (mild Serotonin Toxicity)

Began tapering Oct 2015  Current from 17 Oct 2020:  Pristiq 0.56 mg (compounded + liquid)

My tapering program

My Intro (goes to my tapering graph)

My website - includes my brief history + links to videos & information on the web

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions.

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hayduke

I used to have dissociative problems before I found the right help and sorted out my early traumas, partly what got me put on this drug.  Those did my memory no favours.  I also got messed around by my mother misremembering things I would recall and recount, and telling me I was wrong.  This was really unhealthy when I was vulnerable and being drugged.  Later on I spoke to people about some of these things and was able to confirm that my recall was generally sound enough (Yes, A did X to B, and C said Y, etc etc) and it's some issue of mum's not mine. 

 

Along with all the self medicating with grog, weed and what-have-you my memory could also be less than stellar at times

 

And specifically the prescribed drug messes it up too.

 

Things are much improved since the EMDR, because the dissociative issues are done with (I will never forget the breakthrough moment where it all reversed and reassociated then I was right back at the scene _in my body_ - utterly gross, but it was over before long, it moved into the past for my limbic system and stopped hammering my fight-or-flight like an alarm - f**k me dead that was some magic).  I don't get really flaky when I'm tired any more...I'm basically fine now 'cept for the wds.

 

As the drug wears off my cognition and memory keep improving.  Except when the withdrawals induce those symptoms too, but those shall pass...working is such a drag with this going on but what can ya do...onward thru the fog...


*** I am not a health professional - your actions are your own ***

 

My taper visualised as a graph   |   My intro thread

 

10mg olanzapine 2003-06.  3mg risperidone 2006-2014 gave slight weight loss but mediocre sleep.  Abrupt x-taper to try aripiprazole Dec 2014 increasingly restless (Freddy the blind man could've seen that coming, shame about the pdoc) then back onto 10mg olanzapine after 3 weeks.

Round 1:  2015 10 -> 7 1/2 -> 6 2/3 -> 5mg olanzapine.   Hadn't researched, just decided to try it myself with pill cutter.  Easy enough.  Next cut to 3 1/3mg for 2 weeks had me struggling to function.  Reverted to 5mg, thought that was as far as I could go.

Round 2:  Given Breggin to read, found SA.  Taper from 5 to 2.5mg over five months.  Titrate liquid suspension using Rhi's method.  Cuts and holds all done by feel.  All samples at start of month in mg:

2018:  Feb 5.0 | Mar 4.5 | Apr 4.25 | May 3.7 | Jun 3.3 | Jul 3.1 | Aug 2.9 | Sep 2.5 and six month hold

Round 3:  2.5mg and below.  EMDR work unearthed and resolved root trauma at around 2.1mg

2019:  Jan 2.5 | Feb 2.3 | Mar 2.215 / EMDR / Apr 1.976 | May 1.875 | Jun 1.825 | Jul 1.625 | Aug 1.525 | Sep 1.46 | Oct 1.3 | Nov 1.225 | Dec 1.25

2020:  Jan 1.214 | Feb 1.1 | Mar 1.0 🙂 | Apr 0.88 | May 0.82 | June 0.74 | July 0.69 | Aug 0.61 | Sep 0.59 | Oct 0.525

‘If you think you’re enlightened, spend a week with your family.’  -- Ram Dass

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manymoretodays

  

18 hours ago, morgana said:

PM titled- Solid form sent to me, mmt B)❤️

 

hello i am not too sure who to write to, but thankyou for asking how i am going!  I decided to go back to 2.5mg in solid form, i couldnt sleep at all...since taking solid form, i am probally getting some sleep but mainly in dreaming form which is better than just laying their all night...aleast with the dreaming, i feel i have had some rest....its better than nothing....i have written up a symtom list which i answer every day..zero is really bad and 10 is excellent...in regards to sleep i had been marking as a zero, but since solid form it has gone up to 1....lol

 

I may wait a few months before i start changing to liquid form....i do not think my body is ready!

 

 

Hi morgana,

I took the liberty of, moving your PM back here, to your main thread.  Thanks for letting me know.

Back on solid Zyprexa 2.5 mg.  I'm guessing since around the 5th of October.  And that's just fine.  No need to rush.

 

Keep in mind that some of the memory problems, you are having now, may well be related to the sleep difficulties as well.   And the stress of school.

Work, work, work on sleep hygiene morgana.  Start with this one, which actually has links to even more ideas to cope:

Tips to help sleep: so many of us have that awful withdrawal insomnia

 

 

Hey hayduke,

 

14 hours ago, hayduke said:

I also got messed around by my mother misremembering things I would recall and recount, and telling me I was wrong.  This was really unhealthy when I was vulnerable and being drugged. 

 

 

We call that being "gaslit" here in the U.S.  It's really unhealthy anytime.  Happens in the psychiatric system every......darn.........day.........discounting our traumas, and just going on to drug us.  Ooooh.  And again thank you for supporting around here.  I've caught you doing this before and really like it!

 

Best to you both,

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

 

 


Started with psycho meds circa 1988 I think 27 or 28 total.

AD's, antpsychotics, antiseizure mood stabilizers. Lithium, lamictal ,benzos, and stimulants. Some med. for narcolepsy once(Provigil,) Gabapentin........probably more.  Ask me?......I probably was on it.  Haphazard W/D's by Dr. recommend or uneducated self.

10/2014- off Lexapro--had been on highest dose 10 mg. then 5 mg. for a couple of years, went from 5 mg. to 3 mg. liquid and then CT in hospital(voluntary).  I got out of the hospital on a combination of low dose adderal salts x1/day and trileptal 150mg. x2/day.

5/28/2015-off Adderal salts 2.5mg. (I had been on that since hospital 10/2014)

12/2015---just holding, holding, holding, with trileptal/oxcarb at 75 mg. 1/2 tab at hs.  My last psycho med ever!

 

3/21/2016---I did some unwise updosing of trileptal/oxcarbazepine with some stressful stuff......doubled the above dose x2 during this last wave but began liquifying again and on approximately 68mg. starting today.  11/12//2016 24 mg. oxcarbazepine  12/9/2016 off oxcarbazepine/trileptal!!!! :) optimistic  2016 December 9- completely off all medications!!!!!

Omega3's,EPA +DHA= 1800 mg/day. Magnesium complex, orally, diluted in a liter of H2O(that I can shake up.....it usually dissolves more completely as the water gets down to room temperature) and/or Epsom salt baths prn.   Vit. C, D3, and E.  B12, melatonin tapered to 1mg., and bioidentical hormones sublingually.  Trace mineral drops.  L-lysine.  L-methylfolate=400 mcg plus daily spinach. Totally ready for a good long window to hit soon and getting better strings of full days and partial days along the way.  Definite improvement overall since I first arrived on the SA survivor ship.  Herb and alcohol free since 5/15/2016.  None of my posts are intended as medical advice.  Please discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical provider. manymoretodays

 

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morgana

hi hayduke, i understand where your coming from, i have had that a few times for example my brother said to me "oh yeah i visited you just after dad died", but he never visited me than it was years before he died when was the last time i saw my brother....and the problem with being diagnosed with a mental illness, means what you say cannot be truthful...i remember this guy i was seeing for a couple of months was stalking me, i went to the police, who obviously looked on the computer or something and took me to the mental health clinic, it wasnt until mental health said what she is saying is true that my complaint about being stalked was being taken seriously and truthfully...its though once you have had a diagnoses of something...thats it she is the one with the problem and no one believes me! ....it makes you not trust yourself and others!...but what i was describing was more brain fog not being able to remember things and contain information that i am reading....and i think not sleeping properly isnt helping!


Diagnosed with Depression, Borderline Personality Disorder and Schizo-effective Disorder. 

Cipramil  40mg  1996 to October 2017 stopped cold turkey

Zyprexa 10mg solid form  1996 to October 2017

Zyprexa 7.5mg solid form  October 2017 to October 2018

Zyprexa 5mg solid form  October 2018 to April 2020

Zyprexa 3.75mg solid form April 2020 to May 2020

Zyprexa 2.5mg solid form  May 2020 to September 2020

Zyprexa 2.5mg liquid form September to Mid October 2020 - couldnt sleep

Zyprexa 2.5mg solid form  Mid October 2020 to present

Red Wine daily approx upto 1 litre, Mid October 2020 to present

Supplements:   Day Vitamin C and E, B complex, Multi vitamin, Fish Oil, Swisse - Memory + Focus, 1000 mg Magnesium, Swisse - Sleep, Bioglan - Sleep Tablets (6x Meletonin) - not prescriptions 

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hayduke
On 10/20/2020 at 12:23 PM, manymoretodays said:

We call that being "gaslit" here in the U.S.  It's really unhealthy anytime.  Happens in the psychiatric system every......darn.........day.........discounting our traumas, and just going on to drug us.  Ooooh.  And again thank you for supporting around here.  I've caught you doing this before and really like it!

 

On 10/20/2020 at 5:16 PM, morgana said:

hi hayduke, i understand where your coming from, i have had that a few times for example my brother said to me "oh yeah i visited you just after dad died", but he never visited me than it was years before he died when was the last time i saw my brother....and the problem with being diagnosed with a mental illness, means what you say cannot be truthful...i remember this guy i was seeing for a couple of months was stalking me, i went to the police, who obviously looked on the computer or something and took me to the mental health clinic, it wasnt until mental health said what she is saying is true that my complaint about being stalked was being taken seriously and truthfully...its though once you have had a diagnoses of something...thats it she is the one with the problem and no one believes me! ....it makes you not trust yourself and others!...but what i was describing was more brain fog not being able to remember things and contain information that i am reading....and i think not sleeping properly isnt helping!

 

Seems to be a common problem after a stigmatising diagnosis - being assumed to be deluded.  It undermines your self confidence right when you're most vulnerable and instead of being directed to healers to work through it, you're subdued and made even more helpless.  Just piling on more trauma.

 

I've been stable and independent for many years now and since taking charge of my own healing and finding psychologists who could actually help me, I don't find any of that has been factor for a long time now, which is a very positive outcome I think.  I'm lucky to have good friends as well who are way more reliable and reassuring for feedback and concerns than family have been.  Family is way less difficult when you learn to set boundaries.  No one ever asks about my taper so the safety net is happy!

 

The cherry on top of that sundae is that the diagnosis from them not only makes comprehensive sense and matches my circumstances, but allows for real healing, unlike the original quack's.  Because it's not some doom for life bollocks about chemical this genetic that, it was trauma, and you probably can get out of the maze.  I think if I was going to have mental health problems off the drugs they would've emerged by now, and the psychologist is happy with all that.  And it's about the 50 millionth thing showing that the original problems were all rooted inthe trauma we treated easter before last, which ultimately helps to satisfy worried family members etc.  I can already tell because the noise in my head is gone, I can think straight, deal with hard emotions ok etc 😉

 

But yeah in the meantime bouts of brain fog, poor concentration and motivation, and more.  And having to bloody work through that.  Today I got told I'll have to cover for someone who left my old department, and have them brain dump their stuff on me - when I've barely learnt anything about my new role which is also really complicated?  Even without wd side effects that is stupid hard.  Ugh.

 

We should probably be compensated for being drugged when we should've been helped, but who can afford a legal battle, financially and in all the other ways?  On that note, is anyone in Australia aware of any present or future class actions dealing with olanzapine?  I think we could all use a break.

 

Being on and getting off the drugs is actually a lot harder than facing the trauma, I think.  It's less intense at any given moment but just drags on and on and on....

 

At this stage of the taper I am really looking forward to being done with it, but jeez does it teach you patience 🙂


*** I am not a health professional - your actions are your own ***

 

My taper visualised as a graph   |   My intro thread

 

10mg olanzapine 2003-06.  3mg risperidone 2006-2014 gave slight weight loss but mediocre sleep.  Abrupt x-taper to try aripiprazole Dec 2014 increasingly restless (Freddy the blind man could've seen that coming, shame about the pdoc) then back onto 10mg olanzapine after 3 weeks.

Round 1:  2015 10 -> 7 1/2 -> 6 2/3 -> 5mg olanzapine.   Hadn't researched, just decided to try it myself with pill cutter.  Easy enough.  Next cut to 3 1/3mg for 2 weeks had me struggling to function.  Reverted to 5mg, thought that was as far as I could go.

Round 2:  Given Breggin to read, found SA.  Taper from 5 to 2.5mg over five months.  Titrate liquid suspension using Rhi's method.  Cuts and holds all done by feel.  All samples at start of month in mg:

2018:  Feb 5.0 | Mar 4.5 | Apr 4.25 | May 3.7 | Jun 3.3 | Jul 3.1 | Aug 2.9 | Sep 2.5 and six month hold

Round 3:  2.5mg and below.  EMDR work unearthed and resolved root trauma at around 2.1mg

2019:  Jan 2.5 | Feb 2.3 | Mar 2.215 / EMDR / Apr 1.976 | May 1.875 | Jun 1.825 | Jul 1.625 | Aug 1.525 | Sep 1.46 | Oct 1.3 | Nov 1.225 | Dec 1.25

2020:  Jan 1.214 | Feb 1.1 | Mar 1.0 🙂 | Apr 0.88 | May 0.82 | June 0.74 | July 0.69 | Aug 0.61 | Sep 0.59 | Oct 0.525

‘If you think you’re enlightened, spend a week with your family.’  -- Ram Dass

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morgana

hello is anyone able to help me, i would just like to update my medication history but cannot for the life of me figure it out....if anyone can let me know how do to do it please let me know cheers morgana 


Diagnosed with Depression, Borderline Personality Disorder and Schizo-effective Disorder. 

Cipramil  40mg  1996 to October 2017 stopped cold turkey

Zyprexa 10mg solid form  1996 to October 2017

Zyprexa 7.5mg solid form  October 2017 to October 2018

Zyprexa 5mg solid form  October 2018 to April 2020

Zyprexa 3.75mg solid form April 2020 to May 2020

Zyprexa 2.5mg solid form  May 2020 to September 2020

Zyprexa 2.5mg liquid form September to Mid October 2020 - couldnt sleep

Zyprexa 2.5mg solid form  Mid October 2020 to present

Red Wine daily approx upto 1 litre, Mid October 2020 to present

Supplements:   Day Vitamin C and E, B complex, Multi vitamin, Fish Oil, Swisse - Memory + Focus, 1000 mg Magnesium, Swisse - Sleep, Bioglan - Sleep Tablets (6x Meletonin) - not prescriptions 

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manymoretodays

morgana,

 

to do a signature update, go to Account Settings > select signature on the left(on a PC), and then you can edit.  Don't forget to press Save, when done


Started with psycho meds circa 1988 I think 27 or 28 total.

AD's, antpsychotics, antiseizure mood stabilizers. Lithium, lamictal ,benzos, and stimulants. Some med. for narcolepsy once(Provigil,) Gabapentin........probably more.  Ask me?......I probably was on it.  Haphazard W/D's by Dr. recommend or uneducated self.

10/2014- off Lexapro--had been on highest dose 10 mg. then 5 mg. for a couple of years, went from 5 mg. to 3 mg. liquid and then CT in hospital(voluntary).  I got out of the hospital on a combination of low dose adderal salts x1/day and trileptal 150mg. x2/day.

5/28/2015-off Adderal salts 2.5mg. (I had been on that since hospital 10/2014)

12/2015---just holding, holding, holding, with trileptal/oxcarb at 75 mg. 1/2 tab at hs.  My last psycho med ever!

 

3/21/2016---I did some unwise updosing of trileptal/oxcarbazepine with some stressful stuff......doubled the above dose x2 during this last wave but began liquifying again and on approximately 68mg. starting today.  11/12//2016 24 mg. oxcarbazepine  12/9/2016 off oxcarbazepine/trileptal!!!! :) optimistic  2016 December 9- completely off all medications!!!!!

Omega3's,EPA +DHA= 1800 mg/day. Magnesium complex, orally, diluted in a liter of H2O(that I can shake up.....it usually dissolves more completely as the water gets down to room temperature) and/or Epsom salt baths prn.   Vit. C, D3, and E.  B12, melatonin tapered to 1mg., and bioidentical hormones sublingually.  Trace mineral drops.  L-lysine.  L-methylfolate=400 mcg plus daily spinach. Totally ready for a good long window to hit soon and getting better strings of full days and partial days along the way.  Definite improvement overall since I first arrived on the SA survivor ship.  Herb and alcohol free since 5/15/2016.  None of my posts are intended as medical advice.  Please discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical provider. manymoretodays

 

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morgana

hello i updated my signature the other day but it hasnt changed...how come...have i said something wrong in it that it cannot be shown, or didnt you receive it?  Let me know cheers Morgana


Diagnosed with Depression, Borderline Personality Disorder and Schizo-effective Disorder. 

Cipramil  40mg  1996 to October 2017 stopped cold turkey

Zyprexa 10mg solid form  1996 to October 2017

Zyprexa 7.5mg solid form  October 2017 to October 2018

Zyprexa 5mg solid form  October 2018 to April 2020

Zyprexa 3.75mg solid form April 2020 to May 2020

Zyprexa 2.5mg solid form  May 2020 to September 2020

Zyprexa 2.5mg liquid form September to Mid October 2020 - couldnt sleep

Zyprexa 2.5mg solid form  Mid October 2020 to present

Red Wine daily approx upto 1 litre, Mid October 2020 to present

Supplements:   Day Vitamin C and E, B complex, Multi vitamin, Fish Oil, Swisse - Memory + Focus, 1000 mg Magnesium, Swisse - Sleep, Bioglan - Sleep Tablets (6x Meletonin) - not prescriptions 

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ChessieCat

You might not have saved it.  After editing it you have to click Save which is below the box.

 

Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature

 

 


REMINDER TO SELF:

I don't need the drug now, but my still brain does.

ADs:  25 years - 1 unknown, Prozac (caused muscle weakness), Zoloft/sertraline; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after)

Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (mild Serotonin Toxicity)

Began tapering Oct 2015  Current from 17 Oct 2020:  Pristiq 0.56 mg (compounded + liquid)

My tapering program

My Intro (goes to my tapering graph)

My website - includes my brief history + links to videos & information on the web

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions.

Share this post


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