morgana: Zyprexa / olanzapine

[morgana]

thankyou @Rrsfc for the encouragement, we all need it, just to let us know that what we are doing (tapering) isnt a terrible, bad thing to do...and having emotions is not wrong! you sound alot like me...i too was alittle spoilt as a kid, and wasnt able to handle life in the most constructive way, very emotional i was...with the drugs they suppressed my emotions, so to everyone else i was the most calm, stable person there was, but it wasnt me! since tapering i too live mainly on a plant based diet, given up smoking, drinking, and i am starting to feel, good, bad, angry, happy, alive, sad, human, its a good feeling...i was seeing a psychologist who thought because i was feeling so good she thought i was manic...i have never been diagnosed with manic depression, so i stopped seeing her, its as though if i have any too good feelings its bad for me.....i need someone to say its OK to feel! not suppress it with drugs that so many people want you to do. glad to know you will one day continue tapering as its not a bad thing to be our true selves.

[Rrsfc]

For me being on high dosages of drugs was like wearing a mental strength jacket, I felt depressed and void of all joy, at higher dosages I had akathisia. But the doctors did what they thought was right and I suffered many years. I atribute feeling good now to my diet and exercise, people that don't experience this can't really understand, like your psychologist, don't worry. Especially dark leafy greens give me such a boost in mood and energy I still am in awe of it. I noticed some changes in mood when I tapered from 2,5mg but they were not that significant, I was over excited, trying to psyche myself I was going to get off. It was the wrong attitude, the right is what I am developing now. More of a let's do this but it's not a goal, just an experience in which I have to be really cautious. Being spoilt is awful, I didn't develop my emotions and boundaries correctly and couldn't really empathise with others, I am trying to correct this now ate 43 years old. 😂😂 Seems a little weird, but I guess it's never too late. You mentioned having found a job, good for you, how is it going? 

[morgana]

i agree @Rrsfc, a healthy life style is the only thing i think keeping me alive...english spinach is awesome, it gives me a really calm feeling when i eat it. i also agree high dosages of zyprexa made me feel "blah", is the only way to describe how i felt.  Now i am beginning to feel....and it feels amazing, thou i still got a long way to go...I decided not to take that job and went on a disability pension instead. my stress levels were sky rocketing because i wasnt sleeping and i was worried about keeping to a strict time table....i realised i would not be able to do it, so i decided i would concentrate on healing, no stress, follow a sleep routine, eat healthy, exercise and its helping alot...i do volunteer work in some gardens weeding, but no paid work..and i am glad, it takes the pressure off...I must admit it can be alittle dis-heartening when you do everything right and still find problems with sleep...but on the whole not sleeping properly really isnt bothering me as i do not have to worry about work.. i keep a symptom diary and a food and sleep diary where i write down every thing, it helps me to see what i can improve, i find some foods make me sleep better than others, i found when i made an ajustment on my medication, i notice a real change in my sleep, which than affects my mood and mental health....i really recommend it, it also impresses psychologists, because they cannot believe how detailed it is...although i am not going to waste my time on them anymore, i might just see a counsellor someone who will listen and not judge me and label me like psychologists do..so yeah i agree maybe just doing it on our own is best if we do not get the support from professionals

[Rrsfc]

I am really proud of you, it seems you have achieved so much already and I believe you have all the building bricks to a great future. A job can be really stressing, I had to quit my career and now only work part-time in a less demanding job so I can focus on me. My anxiety levels skyrocketed in the past because of interpersonal relationships at work, it can be unbearable and take us to the edge. I am really glad you have access to that pension while you are healing, you deserve it. I really like your attitude and your focus on getting better, I am like you too, once I started taking action I never gave up. My psychiatrist doesn't think mood has anything to do with diet or exercise 🙄, at least he never talked about it just gave me meds, my psychologists cheer my improvements but I don't believe they give full credit to my effords. You just need to find someone human that can listen to you and doesn't judge, someone who truly cares and that's all you really need. No one is going to do the work you did on yourself for you, I am pretty sure that if you continue this path you will be successful. In 2017 I never thought I'd be where I am today, if someone told me I wouldn't have believed it. I am now interested in dialetical behaviour therapy, I have a subscription that gives me access to a lot of books. I'm interested in learning how to deal with my emotions. I did a mindfulness training last year and I meditate, but I am going to make some changes to my meditation sessions this year. I just focus on what I want to learn and I study it, adapt it to my needs, and that's how I have been moving forward. I prefer books rather than specialist, a lot more affordable and comprehensive. Last year I was convinced I was going to get better if I got off the meds and I was very obsessive about it, now I just think I have other ways to feel good. Getting off the drugs is just another step, it may or may not happen. My go to dark greens are collard greens, spinach is high in oxalates so I don't eat much of it. I read Dr. Greger's books and I learned a lot from it. It was nice finding you in this forum, we seem to have a lot in common. I will be here to encourage you if you need it. For now I think you are doing great, you must be really proud of yourself and feel grateful for all you have acomplished! Hope you have a wonderful day! 🌱🌿💪

[morgana]

thankyou  @Rrsfc for your support, kind words and encouragement....Doctors only want to hand out pills, i believe our mental health starts with our gut...if our gut is healthy usually the rest of us are also....i know if i dont eat properly i become really moody, angry, hyper, sad, cry..i really notice the difference in my mood which is why i write down everything i eat.  I think you are doing pretty good also, you have come along way, reduction in medication, educating yourself, changing your behavior, still working...i just couldnt do it... i really agree with you on work...i always found that it wasnt the actual work i was doing that was stressful it was dealing with the people, like you say, all the crap that goes with it, is very stressful and i found because of that i chose jobs that didnt involve being around many people...just caused too many strong emotions in me, that yeah can tip you over the edge!  i find i need to stay away from people or situations that cause me to over react...which is why i need to do what your doing...learn how to deal with my behaviors is a constructive way..i have heard of "dialectal behavioral therapy" but do not know anything about it really...how does it help you? i thought you needed to see a psychologist in order to do it! do you do it...just by reading books?  

[Rrsfc]

I have a bagkground in psychology so I am comfortable with the subject and I just read the books, some are intended for professionals other for lay person. I learn a lot of tricks and skills this way. Dialectical behaviour therapy is a mix from western cognitive behaviour therapy and mindfulness, it's target is emotion regulation. It's recommended in borderline and bipolar disorder. I haven't gone much farther than this but it seems promising. I can't find a trained professional in the field so I learn this way. Sonetimes the books are boring, but I do it at my own pace. I'm listening to an audiobook at the moment and I take notes at the same time, it fits my schedule. I always loved to read and learn new things. My job is not demanding and people are very tolerant with me, otherwise I couldn't do it. But I am getting better, maybe in time I can do other things. For now I need to regulate my emotions and train myself to function better in social settings. 

[morgana]

hi @Rrsfc, so you say your background is psychology, does that make you a psychologist?...what your reading sounds like what i need to read, i was diagnosed with borderline personality disorder, but the last two psychologists i saw said they think i see everything in black and white, and i looked it up and borderliners see in black and white eg. all or nothing...i know i need to change the way i interact with people, i am over sensitive and take what people say to me personally....i feel i never learnt how to deal with my emotions in a mature way...it sounds silly at 50 years old to be saying i need to basically grow up....but there is so much pain to deal with inside, no wonder its sometimes easier to just take a pill and not deal with it!  

[Rrsfc]

I studied some Psychology in college. You can try and find some self-help books, there is a larger offer of these this days. I believe people can change if they are willing to make the efford, it's never too late. 

[Rrsfc]

There is a huge selection of books in this topic, just check these out.

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/s?k=dialectical+behaviour+therapy+skills+workbook&rh=n%3A266239&sprefix=Dialectical+&ref=nb_sb_ss_ts-doa-p_1_12

 

[morgana]

hi @Rrsfc i have a couple of books on Cognitive Behavioural Therapy but i find just reading about it doesnt help, i guess i just am not ready to change myself to try and be something i am not!..i find these books want us to just be so rational in our thinking and not believe in our own intuition.  I remember saying to my pycologist, that you just "know" when someone doesnt like you, doesnt want to include you, so you move on, but he was trying to say "no" how do you "know"that is just a feeling it is not a fact and that you cannot trust your feelings...well i do not agree with that, trusting your intuition i think is what alot people naturally use to get out of a situation that is bad...its a gut instinct and i believe in it.  A doctor tells you to take a pill because they think you need it...but you just feel inside without fact that maybe it isnt a good idea, i think i would rather trust my gut feeling "a knowing" and not take it from now on! so maybe i am just not ready to accept Pychologolists ways of thinking just yet...maybe in the future but not yet...but i hope it works for you thou and seems to be... 

[Rrsfc]

Well, I had benefits from cognitive therapy and mindfulness. I find when I react to something emotionally my emotions seem so right at that moment but as time passes I think differently. I definetely think they are not facts and I try to explore the meanings but I do not think of them as true, they're a means of communication. When I am hurt I get mean and defensive, I over react, I am trying to fix these issues. If I acted out my emotions I wouldn't be able to get along with people at all 😜. It's not easy, if it where there were no mental issues. Each of us has our own path, we have to find what works best for us. 

[morgana]

yes very true @Rrsfc we do need to find what works for us, and as we are all individuals, all with our different personalities we need to find what method of therapy works for us the best..and i am really happy you have found what works for you the best....i am still in the process of looking and finding what best suits me...at present how i deal with my strong emotions is: 1. eating heathly helps with my mood swings 2. doing some kind of exercise helps 3. practacing sleep hygiene 4.reducing stress levels 5. removing myself from anything or anyone who causes me emotional distress...i than reflect on how/why it hurt me and write it down and give it to the person to read and leave....its probably not the most effective way but at present it works for me...i am not a violent person so i do not react that way, but we are all different and as you say we need to find what works for us.  I enjoy our conversations it makes me think and analyse myself...thankyou!

[Rrsfc]

I like talking to you too. I also do everything you say in points 1-5, when I have a strong emotion I get this inner voice, I call it my indignation firefighter (based on internal family systens therapy) and it goes on to say (in my head) to the person that hurt me everything it wants, I analyse the situation in my head endlessly, sometimes more than a week. During this period I have to be very careful to exercise, take chamomile tea, eat right. Eventually it fades and at this point I kind of integrated the emotion/situation. I am going to work on this process. Before I would just feel sad, anxious, depressed and cry and bottle it all up. This is healthier, but still not ideal. When the process is over I can talk to the person, the hurt is better or gone, because I understand the situation from not only my angle but hers too. My understanding is very differwnt when the situation happens and after this process, so I am careful to stay away from the person untill it's completed. Hope this makes sense to you 😂😂. That's why I adhere to the thoughts and emotions are not facts theory. 

[morgana]

that sounds like a very positive way to deal with things @Rrsfc, i also think about the situation for upto a week or two but i am not very good at talking and so i write it down and give it to them and leave them to process it...as i get too emotional talking i end up not saying what i truly want to get across so i write in an assertive way in plain language so they understand me...but yes it is similar to the way you do it...maybe i too am doing exactly what you are reading about but just not aware that it is called something, i just go on how i feel i need to express myself...i sometimes believe the reason i become angry over something is because i feel i am not being heard by talking so i write it down for them and so its there for them to see, it also removes me from from the situation, i guess its part protective of both me and the other person...because as my emotions can be strong, i would never want to hurt someone....it sounds like you have done alot of work on yourself...on how to better yourself...well done....i have done little on bettering myself socially, i am still trying to fix my psyical self from all the damage this drug has done to me eg joint pains, insomonia, stomach pains, dry eyes, cramps, memory loss, keeping my cholestrol levels low, trying not to get diabetes, weight gain, body stiffness, akathesia, i wont go on..at the sametime having to deal with menopause...not fun...lol

[Rrsfc]

I am really sorry you are suffering as much, I know how it feels like, it kind of drains our energy. A lot of issues you talk about I fixed with my plant based eating, I followed dr. Greger's free app, the daily dozen and used cronometer.com to track nutrition and calories. For weight loss enhancement I take apple cider vinegar (2 teaspoons on 500ml water, it has to be well diluted) 3x a day before my main meals. I turned it into a smoothy: the vinegar, water, a slice of pinneaple, a pinch of powdered ginger and 2 leaves of collard greens or kale. I blend it and drink it, my Dr. G juice I call it. I also get my greens in in a delicious way 😋. The vinegar activates the fat burning enzyme ampk that is deactivated by olanzapine. I learned that from dr. Greger too, what a wonderful thing to find out. For cholesterol use flaxseed meal (2 table spoons) and amla powder (1 teaspoon) a day, eating oats helps too. Check out nutritionfacts.org to know more. I have that issue too, hopefully my blood work is normal now with the amla adding. I find the need to exercise a lot, in the morning and in the evening, even on weekends, that is also really helpful. I walk, jog, dance and do yoga. I do my own thing, don't really care if others think it's too much and it's working. Don't get discouraged, you can do it, I believe in you! 

[Rrsfc]

This book helped me a lot, I listened to the audio version and she has a soothing very nice voice, it was a plus. I highly recommend it for anyone who wants to develop self-compassion, and we all need it in my opinion. (kristin neff self-compassion) https://images.app.goo.gl/RVe4WJTi2ZsCVMRXA

[Rrsfc]

I was reading about AMPK and I found this article. It actually is the activation of AMPK that increases apetite, so vinegar deactivates it, just wanted to clarify that. 

 

https://eje.bioscientifica.com/view/journals/eje/176/5/R235.xml

[morgana]

hi @Rrsfc thankyou for the support and encouragment, have just woken up, give me time to look and read the information links you have provided, thankyou i appreciate it...i will get back to you and let you know how they work...cheers have a wonderful day! 

[morgana]

Hi @Rrsfc how you going thankyou for the links you gave me i really enjoyed watching them on Youtube...Dr Gregers is quite a funny man, i am looking at buying his book as well as Kristen Neff's.  I have never really thought about it, but showing compassion towards myself would be a huge step forward for me.....i have never really felt that i deserved it...always told i needed to increase my self esteem but that wasnt what i needed it, its compassion as i know i am suffering!  i went to the two book stores near where i live but they do not have any, so i will need to order over the internet..which books (written) not audio, would you recommend for my first books on each Authors?  Kristen Neffs has written alot of books so i do not know which to choose first!  Any suggestions would be appreciated...cheers!  How have you been?  hope you had a wonderful week...and thankyou for telling me about these people..cheers morgana

[Rrsfc]

Hi, I'm doing well thank you 😊. I'm glad you liked the links. From Dr. Greger you can read "how not to die", from Dr. Neff "Self-compassion", I sent you the link to the cover in my previous post. Why don't you set up a scribd account? These will be included in your membership and you can choose between audio or written and many other books. You can benefit from a free trial period and cancel anytime. Hope this helps, glad to see you moving forward! Have a nice day. 

[morgana]

thankyou @Rrsfc i will read them both thankyou

[NNhope]

Hi@morgana hope you are doing well. I was wondering since your long hold, has some of your symptom settled a bit?

[morgana]

hi @NNhope welcome to the forum, i wished i could say yes my symptoms have reduced however i cannot as some get better i end up getting new ones...my problem now is my temperture regulation, i have extreme hot, burning skin episodes(not sure if its just peri-menopause or not) and now i am allergic to anything i put on my skin...i had never had allergies in the past before until now....and i still experience an inability to sleep all the time..i have rushed my tapering way too fast and so as a consquence i have had terrible symptoms.  i need to hold for alot longer now until my sleep improves alot....i tend to make changes as soon as my sleep improves  which isnt a good idea, i need to sit for alot longer inbetween changes...i learnt my lesson..my suggestion to you is read, read, read, before you ask questions as its usually already somewhere explained....read the sleep hygeine suggestions by people, cut out coffee (sorry), and learn patience....good luck and welcome morgana 

[NNhope]

@morgana I hope your sleep improves soon. I also feel like my skin is more sensitive to breaking out, especially on my face.

[morgana]

hi @NNhope i just read your intro, you havnt been on zyprexa for too long which is good, your lucky you found this site early on taking your pych meds i only found it after taking pych meds for 23 years and so didnt even know tappering was such as thing!  I have been getting sores on my face for about 1 year now, I  normally have very clear skin, only a month ago all my sores dissappeard and thought yes finally, but then they came back with a vengence...i have been on meds for 24 years i think my body is going through quite alot inside....and i guess when its not doing well it shows up on our skin.. 

[BadMedicine]

Hi @morgana. I too have bad skin. I’ve never had acne ever in my life and now my forehead is terrible. I also thought mine had gone but it’s come back as bad as it’s ever been. This process is so demoralising.

 

 

[morgana]

Hi @BadMedicine, so true.  I have been seeing a skin specialist for the last 20 years as i need to get my moles checked as they turn cancerous, and i am suppose to see him every 6 months, but hadnt seen him for quite a while. 4 months ago i saw him and he asked about the sores on my face, he doesnt know why either, he said their is no point giving me antiboitics for them as they are not infected...i just explained i think they are from withdrawal of the medication i am on..i thought maybe they were from drinking soy milk but even if i do not drink it, i still get them..

I also tried the pure water last night, didnt work for me....only slept 1 hr out of laying in bed for 11 hours straight...however the night before i did get 10 hrs sleep...changing the method eg slowly switching over to water, i find is no different to just cutting a quarter off the pill and only taking 3/4 solid tablet..i think i would still experience the same bad effects...i didnt sleep for 22 days and all i did was change to  taking 1/4 in liquid form...i have been on another site and they do not change over to water, they all shave their zyprexa tablets...  

[BadMedicine]

Hi @morgana. Wow 11 weeks without sleep. How did you manage.? You are very strong to get through that. It really does sound like you are not getting an effective dose from the dissolved portion of the pill. Sorry the pure water did not work for you. Maybe it’s worth switching to another method. I know someone else on this site who also had problems switching to liquid. Can’t remember who it is. They crush their tablets then put the powder in a fold of paper and measure the length of the powder and subtract the amount needed for a 10% reduction. Might be wise if you change your method to not go back to the full 2.5mg dose though as you may have inadvertently gone down to half already (which is a bright side) to this horrific process.

[BadMedicine]

Sorry just realised it was 22 days you didn’t sleep for - not 11 weeks. Got confused with your 11 hours in bed. Still that is a massive amount of time with no sleep. Well done for getting through it and not caving and going back on the solid tablet.

[hayduke]

I guess all I could add to this is that I had been on a steady dosage at 5mg for quite a long time when I crossed over to water titration, and when I did it was no more disruptive than a small cut.

 

When I got to 2.5 I just took the tablet again for 5 or 6 months for convenience.  Crossing back to water again easy, the same as the time before.

 

The other thing I'd note is that the volume of water you're putting the tablet in made a noticeable difference as well, about the same as solid to water.  You might do better with a smaller base volume of water, it felt stronger when I reduced the volume below 100ml for a higher concentration.

 

I started with 100 or more which was excessive.  Then used 50ml for a lot of it, now 25ml for some time.  I'll stick with 25ml with the 2.5mg tab, because the maths is so easy - just move the decimal point 🙂

[morgana]

Hi @BadMedicine, i do not know about my body not accepting the liquid method as after the 22 days (not all no sleep, some were shallow dreamy sleeps for 3 or 4 hours), but after 22 days i was back to sleeping 7 or 8 hr straight quite deep sleeps for 3 weeks before i changed to 1/2 and 1/2.  This time i havnt gotten back to 7 or 8 hr deep sleeps again.  ever since i got my braces off my teeth (around the same time i switched to 1/2 n 1/2)my sleep has been really poor...they used glue to keep wire attached to my teeth, i have to wear uncomfortable retainers in my mouth at night, and i had my teeth bleached every day for a week..so many chemicals in my body...my body has says thats enough...at the moment i do not go into a deep sleep, my sleeps are broken and am having very trippy vivid dreams when i do fall into a sleep....hoping one day i will get my 8 hr deep, relaxed sleep back...until then i will not change again!

 

Hi @hayduke, how you going, i am only using 10mls of water, 5mls(1 tsp) for each quarter i use, eventually adding up to 20mls and than i was going to add an extra 5mls to make up 25mls and stop there once the whole 2.5mg tablet is diluted...

[NNhope]

@morgana, I use eczema lotion for the rash on my face and that tends to help.

 

I dont feel very lucky because I dont know how I'm going to taper down anymore without getting bad anxiety and restlessness but being at this dose make me feel dull. Since the CT then reinstatement, I am scared of trying to go any lower.

[morgana]

hi @NNhope, i never ever use to get eczema, i only get it in my ears for some reason, i find when i eat too much, my body i think finds it all too hard to digest and i end up with eczema in my ears....only a theory, just an observation i notice when i get it...lol

 

I understand where your coming from with tappering, being scared to start and yes, anxiety goes through the roof, even when you have nothing to worry about in life....it is difficult i know, but you just need to plan ahead before hand, i find  writing everything down in a table, helps you identify anything that is causing the restlessness and anxiety and so you can change it and make things alittle easier on yourself.

 

i will attach my tables what i fill in every day to show as an example, it gives me knowledge about myself  and to remember things as my memory is really bad and i have a tendancy to over exsaggerate things...let me know if it is something that you may find useful...as preparing takes alot of fear out of it and gives you courage to move forward....remember read as many stories as you can on this site, follow a strict sleep routine and know you are doing everything you can in order to reduce your anxiety and restlessness....cheers morganaApril symptom table 2021.docx    april food and sleep table 2021.docx

[morgana]

hi @WordsinOrbit nice to meet you, sounds like you have been through the system for as long as i have...i lost my job and was depressed i was put on Zoloft for depression, i lost the plot on that ****...thought i was on a mission from God...(had never even been to church in my life...lol), anyway they forced me to take the anti-depressant which made me hullicinate which they they then decided i was schizo effective..voluntary and law enforced stays in Mental Hospital, threatened if i didnt take my medication, i would go to the Big Institution or threatened with Electric Convolsive Therapy....i didnt like the thought i either so i learnt my lesson and took my medication, did what i was told, stayed out of hospital, worked like a work-holic, but new deep inside i was dead...no feelings, no thoughts, constantly having to move, restlessness, inability to have a relationship, i was a robot, did not talk much, could no longer dance which i use to enjoy, i use to enjoy drawing...havnt drawn since being on medication (1996), use to sing along with songs i heard on the radio...i am unable to remember the lines or quick enough to keep up with the words being sung...basically i was dead...so i drank and smoked like a chimney...just needed to continually put something in my mouth...didnt know why..even tho on the whole i no longer drink, apart from low periods where i pick up for 2 or 3 weeks, end up in stomach pain and realise this isnt working...i do now feel i am beginning to feel more like myself again......little by little, beginning to feel more connected to my body....still do not think, mind is usually blank and when i do think its usally something that annoys me...at the moment its cats...lol, but i havnt given up, i may for a couple of weeks and then i say "no", i need to keeping going forward, i want to know if i can ever be med free and if i can, can i survive like normal people without being dependant on it...i also sometimes become fearful, that i may do something wrong and end up back in the mental hospital and forced meds again...absolutetly terrified of it...and i know if i was ever forced into that position again i would top myself, as that was not a life, they took my spirit, soul and my uniqueness away from me, my humaness...they should be shot...

[NNhope]

@morgana, thankyou for the attachment. It looks useful to look back on and see if symptom improve overtime.

 

Inability to sit and relax or pacing alot, is that akathesia? I had that really bad when trying to CT 10mg. It took 2 week after reinstating 5 mg before that settle down a bit. Still unable to just sit and watch a tv show. Need to always be doing something at the same time or it would be too uncomfortable. From your list, it looks like you have it daily? Is it mild or different daily?

 

Also alot of 0 hour of sleep nights. Has it improve any since apirl? I've been having a bit of a problem with sleep as well. I dont know if I'm sleeping much. I go to bed at 8 pm and then lay there and suddenly it' 

530am. I then lay there until my alarm goes off at 7 30am. Never really feels restful.

 

I see that you are drinking again. From your symptoms list I dont blame you but that could make symptom alot worse. You could get the kindling effect since olanzapine does hit the gaba receptor and is a thienobenzo. At least from what I understand. I hope the month of June will be better for you. You're alot further along than I am being at 2.5mg. You dont want to derail that with alcohol.

 

Wish you the best. Keep me posted on your progress.

[morgana]

thankyou @WordsinOrbitfor your words of support, its nice to meet people who also experience the same injustices in life....but come from a place of enlightenment rather than anger like i do...yes abuse disguised as helpful service...their trying to help us get better...(better from what)i wasnt a harm to myself or others...when i was forced on anti depressants..i remember  I use to work as a cleaner and i filled in once at a private pychiatric centre were they did ECT and so forth...well i overheard a nurse saying to the Pych Doctor, that its hard to tell the difference between patients and staff and the the doctor told them, the only difference is that they (patients) are the ones on the meds....also living in a beautiful part of Australia where people pay money to come here to visit for holidays...i found when going through the mental health system....i never saw an Austalian Pych Doctor or nurse, they were all from overseas, American, English, Scottish, Irish, Japanese, Chinese, German all over here as interns on a working holidays...enjoying the sun at the same time detroying vulnerable Australian lives...and they got paid for it...that really annoys me...and i had no say in it...i had to take their drugs...to me they are no different to drug dealers on the streets...no difference what soever...atleast on the streets you ask for the drugs....their not forced on you!