morgana: Zyprexa / olanzapine

[morgana]

hi @NNhope since i went fully to liquid my sleep has been only 1 to 2 hrs of dreaming state sleep, however last night i may of slept 5 to 6 hrs sleep...i wasnt dreaming, i wasnt tossing and turning, i was relaxed, eyes closed, i wasnt in a deep sleep, its weird how to explain it, i do not know if i was actually sleeping or not..but it was restorative...i didnt want to go onto a full tablet dissolved i wanted and needed to take it slowly by quarter but the tabets would crumble on me so i just decided to throw the whole tablet in the water....its done now and so i just have to give myself time, plenty of time probably to the end of the year before i start actually tapering...i really need to give my cns time....

 

What i suggest is cut the tablets into quarters with 5mls of water for each quarter and so take it  slowly...because even thou your not actually cutting the dose of the tablet the change you make will make you feel as thou you have actually made a cut in your dose...the cns does not know the difference between changing and reducing...does that make sense?  you may not have any issues with changing and see very little affect but that hasnt been the case with me...let me know how you go....and listen to your body you will know when its time to change...let me know how you go..cheers morgana

 

[morgana]

great to hear your doing so well @hayduke, you give us hope that getting off zyprexa can be done....thankyou!

 

i am also over weight due to zyprexa..approx 10kg, i was very very slim when i went on it 25 years ago.. and i thought the extra weight was good for me, however now i do worry about diabetes, but i think at the moment i am more concerned with my cholesterol, its at 5.6 which is quite high, i do wonder if it will come down once i am off zyprexa....i hope so...i have noticed my appetite isnt as strong as it was...i also find having an early dinner and going for a 45 min walk around the block straight after dinner helps with keeping the weight off..wish you all the best...your on the home run...

[hayduke]

@morgana what this drug does to people is nothing short of criminal.  Suddenly I had body image problems on top of everything else when I was put on it.  Then my ankles got undiagnosable problems that looked rheumatic with all the weight on them.  Not happy Jan!  They've been a lot better lately which is bloody good.

 

Diabetes is a evidently real hazard on this drug.  Fasting has been my approach to keep it at bay, that may not work for everyone.  I also have high cholesterol at present, and quit drinking a month or two back and have improved my diet.  Need to give my liver some love!

 

I lost a ton of weight with just diet and 45 min walks each day.  Good on you

 

[NNhope]

@morganathank you for the suggestion.

I'm worried that I won't tolerate the change well so I have been holding and putting it off. The 5mg pill I have doesn't look like can be cut in to quarter. I might have to just try half and half and hold for a month or so then try the whole tablet.

 

 

Does your symptom flare up when you change? How long does that last until you stabilize?. 

[NNhope]

@morganathank you for the suggestion.

I'm worried that I won't tolerate the change well so I have been holding and putting it off. The 5mg pill I have doesn't look like can be cut in to quarter. I might have to just try half and half and hold for a month or so then try the whole tablet.

 

 

Does your symptom flare up when you change? How long does that last until you stabilize?. 

[morgana]

hi @NNhope how you going?  i am really not the right person to ask...as i have done every thing wrong...lol..i have been on 2.5mg for over 1 year now, but in this time i really have not actually stabilised...i havnt had a deep sleep since changing the method over for about 4 to 5 months now....for the last 3 weeks since changing again i have really only slept no more than 1 to 2 hours sleep a night....

 

and i only started a sleep routine, eating, exercising and not drinking alcohol (most of the time..i fall off the wagon sometimes) since the beginning of this year...and so i really hadnt given my CNS much stability over the past year....

 

i wished i hadnt had to change to full liquid 3 weeks ago but i had no choice, the batch of tablets i got would all crumble so i couldnt cut them into quarters...and so my symtoms are bad again...

 

if i were you, i would read as many posts as you can on here, keep a diary for at least one month before you begin your change over, so keep a table like the one i showed you every day, stick to a healthy diet, no alcohol or coffee, exercise and stick to sleep routine.

 

venkat was on 5mg he took a 2.5mg tablet solid and 2.5mg liquid, you might wanna try that as you are on 5mg tablets, the tablets do not have dents in them to show where they can be cut, but you can cut them with a pill cutter which you can buy from the pharmacy...

 

let me know how you go...cheers morgana

 

 

[NNhope]

@morgana, I will try the method you suggest. 2.5mg solid and 2.5mg liquid, get used to that. I wish I was down to 2.5mg already.. at the dose I am at, I feel really flat emotionally.

 

I really hope we all can get off this drug one day!

[morgana]

i hope we can too, get off this drug one day @NNhope, it isnt easy and its a very long process that requires patience....

 

are you working at the moment?

 

i had to give up working while i am tapering, as it affects my sleep too much...i could no way expect to go to work the next day after only having 1 or 2 hrs sleep every night for weeks on end...

 

if you are not working make the most of it and really look at wanting to heal yourself, mentally, physically, emotionally and spiritually...i find with myself its a full time job....maybe in a year or two when i am ready i can go back to work...but at present i cant due to WD's...

 

how is your sleep at the moment? are you sleeping deeply and long? if you are thats a good sign..

[NNhope]

@morgana, i am working at the moment. It's a good distraction from all this. If I was sleeping just 1 or 2 hours a night I wouldn't be able to go to work either. That's what I am afraid of when I start to taper,is insomnia. 

 

Aside from sleep have you notice other symptom much? My biggest fear is akathisia. It's just so darn uncomfortable.

 

Atm I am still getting the same amount of sleep everyday. From 10pm to about 6am. I don't know if it's deep sleep. What I do notice is once I'm up, I can not go back to sleep at all. I also can not nap during the day. When I try I'll lay there until I feel Amp up enough to just get up.

[morgana]

sorry to hear your working @NNhope, it will just mean going extra slow, you might want to chat with @Venkat and ask how he is coping as i know he is working while tapering and has found it difficult but manageable and also tapering down from 5mg...i think as for akathesia take as much magnesium as you can tolerate, it helps you relax your muscles

 

i have had every known wd symptom possible...lol and they keep changing...first it was anger and wanting to just jump out of my skin, even thoughts of jumping in front of a truck...not good...then i began getting sores on my face, lower back pain and my feet and joints began hurting, extremely stiff body, dry eyes, oh yes akathesia of course...., than came the burning skin and feeling my skin is being pricked with thousands of needles, hot sweats, insomnia of course..., allergies and at  the moment the symptoms i am experienclng now days are:   pain is now in my upper back which i am seeing a chiropractor for, insomnia and frequent urination...there the main ones i am worried about at the moment......

 

like i said earlier i am probably not the best person to go to for advice as i am sure if i had done things differently and more slowly i probably wouldnt of had so bad wd's....chat with venkat if you can he is really easy to chat to but feel free to continue chatting with me whenever you need to as i am here to support you too....

 

i hope i havnt scared you off tapering.....lol....you may get more positive experiences from others, even thou i have/am experiencing these symptoms i wouldnt change  not going ahead with my taper as i still see many benefits too... cheers morgana

[Venkat]

Hi @NNhope

Meditation and slow taper is what is helping me to just manage with work. 

 

I know meditation is not easy while on olanzapine, but trying to be aware of the normal breathing helps to focus. This can be tried even while working. 

 

Wishing you all the best in your tapering journey. 

 

Regards, venkat 

 

[morgana]

yes @NNhope, i agree with venkat i have recently started meditation and it really helps, also what i have found which really reduces my anxiety is "Tapping" there is a book called The Tapping Solution and it teaches you how to do it.also on Youtube....i was having really hot burning sweats i started tapping on it and found anger was really the issue, since than i very rarely get burning hot sweats just hot flushes which i can deal with...i am not angry all the time like i use to be and my anxiety isnt as bad....just thought i would let you know about it....good luck cheers morgana

[hayduke]

I've been working part time for years.  3 days has been my limit in a demanding, high functioning role through therapy and withdrawal.  I got made redundant during covid and have been looking at simpler ways of making a crust while I continue recovering and start studying.  The break has been very welcome.

[morgana]

sounds like it can be done @NNhope, hayduke also was working, i think BadMedicine is working full time too..if you are sleeping well like you say you are and have been for the last 6 months there really isnt any reason why you cannot try now to swap a 2.5mg tablet into liquid and swallow a 2.5mg tablet (just need a doctors prescription for 2.5mg tablets)...if you want to take it really slow as your working cut one tablet into quarters with a pill cutter and swallow 3/4 of it and dissolve a quarter in 5mls of water and see how you go with that, if all goes well, 1/2 n 1/2 the pill and than 3/4 dissolve and 1/4 swallow until all 2.5mg is dissolved in 25mls of water.......once your stablised on that you can than start tapering the dissolved liquid.....

as they say "there is never a better time than the present"....but if not now, least you know what to do when the time comes...good luck where all here for ya!

[NNhope]

@Venkat nice to meet you and thank you for the meditation advice. I used to meditate but I find it hard to do when all I can think about is this.

 @morgana thank you for the advice and you have quite a bit of symptoms. I'm glad that all of them has settled for you. Hopefully the pain and the insomnia will as well.

 

I was wondering do you guys get some cortisol in the morning after waking and finding it hard to stay in bed. My sleep has been the same-ish sleep at around 10pm and wake up at 5 30 or 6 and can't really get back to bed with the cortisol feeling. I was hoping that would settle but it hasn't.

 

 

[Venkat]

@NNhope Nice to meet you too . I get your point , meditation is difficult when one is going through so much. 

 

I too have experienced cortisol spikes in the mornings getting  up with severe anxiety but it gradually wanes as the olanzapine dose is reduced. Just need to hang on for some time. 

 

Take care 

Venkat 

[NNhope]

@Venkat,it's nice to know that it gets better as you reduce the dose. I'm afraid to taper cause I'm afraid things will get worst.

[Miko789]

about sleep

if you manage sleep then thats good

 

ive been walking each day and go at the park,  it soothing and  calms.

[Venkat]

12 hours ago, NNhope said:

@Venkat,it's nice to know that it gets better as you reduce the dose. I'm afraid to taper cause I'm afraid things will get worst.

@NNhope

I understand your fear.

First , begin the taper only when you are steady , where your sleep is good and you are not feeling wobbly. 

 

Second,  when the taper is very slow like 5% of the previous dose every month the withdrawal symptoms are hardly a problem. It is the adverse effects of olanzapine we need to deal with. 

 

Best wishes 

Venkat 

[morgana]

hi @Miko789, i have just finished reading your story....you have come along way...i noticed you had problems with constant urination....like me...i also at present have upper back pain, i am seeing a chiropractor and having deep tissue massages, the Therapist told me my back is out of alignment, but still  back hasnt gone back into place so going to get x-ray done....find it hard to breath...you also talk about numbness, i get numbness in my left hand up to my shoulder sometimes....which can be alittle worrisome..i have done some big jumps in my past in the process of getting off zyprexa like yourself and i think i am paying the price now with my lack of sleep....how is your sleep at the moment? and yes walking in nature is calming...i also get annoyed with all the traffic and road works constantly...going by your signature you have sat for awhile on 2.5mg are you planning on a slow tapper soon?  i wish you well in your progress...cheers morgana

[Miko789]

hi morgana

 

 

numbness i have in left anf right leg sometines when wake up, but goies away after time,

 

when tired then having more numbness,

having walk every day  is important

 

yes i was on 2,5mg for some time , when tappering , now im currently on zyprexa 5 , i dropped out

 

  tomorrow getting the 1st jab, did you have your 1st jab?

 

 

slow taper when circumstances are better,

stay safe

miko

[morgana]

when the time is right, you will know when to start tapering again @Miko789....this is one hell of a tough drug to get off isnt it..i like how you call it shitprexa....lol..so true!

 

yes walking is good, i walk everyday 

 

i have decided not to have any jabs...i am over these chemicals they all think are good for us...

when !00% of doctors have had their jabs then i will have mine...

i wish you luck..stay well

morgana

 

 

[hayduke]

Might be worth reading up on the mRNA vaccines and seeing how they work Morgana.  I don't love the idea of putting stuff like that in my body much either, but I don't think it's all that scary when you get the idea of what it actually does to train your immune system to fight a particular virus.

 

Reading up and hearing about what this disease does to a lot of people does scare me!  Permanent cognitive decline, ruined lungs, persistent infections, on and on...my body's been through enough without all that.

 

This delta variant makes infected people produce about 1200x more virus than the earlier strain, and the more you cop the worse it gets, so it's riskier than before.

 

Even though I'm immunised now I still really do not want to risk infection on top of it.

[Hopela]

Covid can for some lead to long term damages but so can the injections. If statistics are to be trusted... some immunity is achieved with the injections but for a cost. Before taking the jab or a booster spend some hour listening to the suppressed voices of Dr. Charles Hoffe, Dr Sucharit Bhakdi and Dr. Mike Yeadon regarding the covid injections. There are many perspectives to study with regards to the ongoing injection programs and in summary based on the science of the situation I would definitely not take any shot voluntarily. Make sure you have the diet, supplements or even medicines to treat yourself immediately if you get the symptoms of being virus attacked. After what is then most likely a mild run recover and enjoy the capabilities of your immune system.

 

[morgana]

hi @hayduke and @Hopela i looked into getting the Pfizer vaccine rather than the Astra one because its meant to be better for you if you are over the age of 49yrs old which i am...but they have run out, they only have the astra here in Cairns until October....so i might wait until then.....and then get the Pfizer....until than i might just continue reading, i do not know anything at present about the vaccines...at present where we live we have no cases of covid...so at present i feel quite safe from it.... thanks both of you for your advice...cheers morgana

 

which vaccine did you get hayduke?

[hayduke]

I held out for Pfizer as well, and that's what I was able to get.  I think the AZ is a bit of a dud though it might work for some people.  They will prioritise you for Pfizer here if you have had various health problems - I didn't have to disclose either, just declare I had.

 

From my experience I've had several flus that were far worse than the mild discomfort from the vaccine for a couple of days, and I think covid would be way worse again.  I'm not hearing many reports of problems with Pfizer, and I decided for myself that the risks from covid are much more threatening of long term harm than those of the vaccine. 

 

There is research showing it can induce psychosis in a lot of prone people. 

 

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/covid-can-cause-forgetfulness-psychosis-mania-or-a-stutter/

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/22/health/covid-psychosis.html

 

Note how they are giving sufferers the drugs we've grappled with for years.  After what I have been through I am not risking that!  While a couple of months after my second shot I have no issues to report.

 

Stay safe :-)

 

P.S wanted to add there are a ton of active disinformation campaigns active around this stuff, esp thru facebook etc.  ABC reported the 'anti lock down' protests in sydney on the weekend were incited by far right trump fanatics 'proud boys'.  Have a look at https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/michael-yeadon-vaccine-death/

[morgana]

thanks for the advice @hayduke  i did not know i could be prioritized if i tell them i have had health problems, i have had pancreatitis which has affected my breathing and i guess being on zyprexa does affect our liver...so they may put me near the top of the list....i will look into it...thankyou cheers morgana

[Rrsfc]

I took the pfizer vaccine, the 2nd shot was on July 10th, and I feel fine, I hadn't had any symptoms. I decided to take it because I thought it would be my contribution to stop this pandemia. I didn't research anything about the vaccines because I knew I would become a little paranoid about it and probably wouldn't want to take the vaccine... Sometimes we just have to choose a less than perfect option for the common good. So far I have no regrets on my decision. 

[morgana]

hi @Rrsfc thankyou for your thoughts, more the better, i was seeing a reflexologist who i would have great chats with she was an anti-vaxer, and not knowing anything about the virus i sorted listened to her but also seeing the result of people not having it, has changed my mind about it.....i do not watch TV or the News only what i see on the internet as of course most of what i read on the interview is probably false...

 

well i looked into it and my government has ordered some more Pfazier but wont be available until October this year....only people who work in industries that are high risk eg health workers, aged care workers are prioritized first, they said i need to wait until October, thats all right i dont mind waiting...

 

thankyou for letting me know how you went with it, it can be alittle frightening what i read on the internet...

 

cheers morgana

[Hopela]

@morgana@hayduke There's alot of bad info the web for sure and it's good to read both the fact checkers and the fact providers. Usually they are both both right and wrong and it enhances your process of weeding out the false info and getting the good info by seeing the different sources and reasonings. It's good to be aware of that not only is there a dishonest pharmacological industry, with associated fact checkers, looking to make money but a dishonest conspiracy industry that makes money from grabbing your attention with alarming claims, and there are other actors out to manipulate your perceptions. On top of that there are "honest" people who are badly informed, sloppy and unscientific . There is also everything from random result to bad to completely fake science in scientific journals.  And psychologically all people are wired to locking in on the greatest threat perceived, true or not, so finding truth is very difficult, time consuming and often impossible. Forgiving mistakes and having an open mind is important.

 

With regards to the snopes link they have not provided any source of Yeadon, instead a fake link that does not provide a playable video, giving the appearance of honesty while in reality being intricately dishonest. And ultimately their fact checking is incorrect which you will see if looking up the video since Yeadon has not said the government is attempting mass depopulation with the vaccines. He has said that "he thinks", "he believes", "Now I don't know...but I can't think of a benign reason", "is terrified that", "can't see no...interpretation other than", "I'm very worried that", "It's entirely possible", etc. These are scientifically correct statements mostly about his own mind processes and he is inviting to a discussion. Personally I believe he stands the risk of becoming locked up and forcibly drugged with antipsychotics for having such thoughts. Furthermore the snopes article claims through a false quote image that Yeadon claims vaccinated will die in agony in 2 years. This is not in the interview. Snopes would only have needed a real link and a timestamp to prove it. 1 line of writing.  Instead they cited a false claim. So to conclude Snopes is lieing and Yeadon is worried, right or wrong. PS. When reffering to Yeadon I had no particular video in mind.

[hayduke]

@Hopela I don't think the guy seems credible at all, he was working on an unrelated drug and his widely purported job title is not proven correct.  In particular he was not a vaccine expert, and many people who knew him seem shocked at his sudden about-face.  These sorts of claims seem flimsy and shall we say very light on evidence.

 

Above all, Morgana's thread probably isn't the best venue for that sort of speculation.  As far as I know no one is forcing you to take a vaccine, but what I see as credible sources suggest it's safer to than not, especially if you're vulnerable.  There is a main thread elsewhere on the vaccine.  Many people on this drug seem to be doing OK with the Pfizer from what I'm reading there.  Hope we can leave it there.

[Hopela]

1 hour ago, hayduke said:

Hope we can leave it there.

Of all subjects Yeadon have spoken of you linked to a particular and misrepresented one but I agree to speak no more of it.

 

Of relevance to Morganas thread:

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32321400/

Quote

...22 studies involving 31514226 subjects...higher risk of venous thromboembolism and pulmonary embolism...olanzapine... significantly increased the risk...women taking antipsychotics had a higher risk of pulmonary embolism

 

There is also this:

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34280733/

Quote

1012 were enrolled in the study...females... were statistically significant risk factors for having adverse reactions...most symptoms were mild and moderate...Females were an associated risk factor for D-dimer elevation

 

The blood clotting tendency with Olanzapine is a risk factor for covid which is a blood clotting disease. Antipsychotics are linked to a 4.14 times higher risk of severe covid. Unfortunately the injections are blood clotting injections with possibly very high prevalence for micro thrombosis, D-Dimer tested by Dr Charles Hoffe (62% prevalence) on mRNA injection. But my the second linked article here had a group of 15 Pfizer OR Sinopharm of which none were elevated D-Dimer, so Hoffe's results are not confirmed and may be due to selection of patients. Nevertheless as a female olanzapine user you are not just high frequency with regards to severe covid, if you contract it, but plausibly also increased risk with regard to adverse effects, especially clotting, from the injections, if you take them.

 

Declaration of possible bias / extra motivation to find truth: I passed covid mildly with diet and supplements while being on low dose of olanzapine. My mother took the Pfizer injection and got cancer.

[hayduke]

@Hopela again I think that sort of lengthy discussion belongs in the main vaccine thread, not one person's intro thread.

[DataGuy]

@Hopela and @hayduke. Agree. Vaccine discussion should be on the COVID vaccine thread. Also, be very careful to avoid posting misinformation. This is not really a site to debate the safety and efficacy of vaccines. We don't want to get on the wrong side of the public health authority or be deboosted by Google. There are plenty of other sites to debate the vaccines, although I have to admit I can't say I agree with social media censorship of the issue.

 

Thanks and appreciate your posts : )

[Madeleine]

Morgana:

I want to introduce myself as I am tapering Zyprexa too. (For the second time 😞   I am wondering if you could tell me if you are using just regular olanzapine pills for the water taper or special ones (e.g. orodispersable)? 
What are other people doing?
Thanks in advance for any guidance.

M.

[morgana]

hello @Madeleine i am so sorry you ended up back in hospital and back on all those drugs you tapered off so well...that is a major fear i have...of being put back on large amounts of meds again and having no control over it..

 

i use Zyprexa 2.5mg Apotex tablets, they have a hard casing (regular ones) and so you need to cut them with a pill cutter but they will dissolve within about 15mins after putter them in water in warm weather (i live in the Tropics)

 

may i ask how much of zyprexa did they put you back on? hope it wasnt back upto 10mg.....

 

wish you all the best and will support you to get of this **** ..cheers morgana