morgana: Zyprexa / olanzapine

[Madeleine]

13 hours ago, morgana said:

hello @Madeleine i am so sorry you ended up back in hospital and back on all those drugs you tapered off so well...that is a major fear i have...of being put back on large amounts of meds again and having no control over it..

 

i use Zyprexa 2.5mg Apotex tablets, they have a hard casing (regular ones) and so you need to cut them with a pill cutter but they will dissolve within about 15mins after putter them in water in warm weather (i live in the Tropics)

 

may i ask how much of zyprexa did they put you back on? hope it wasnt back upto 10mg.....

 

wish you all the best and will support you to get of this **** ..cheers morgana

Unfortunately they put me back on 10 but I started taper down already by cutting down a little.
 

Why do you cut the pills  if you put them in water?

Have you started tapering already in this way? 
thank you so much for support!  I really appreciate it.

[Madeleine]

What I meant is have you started cutting in this way already?  I read that you started dissolving pill in water for your body to get used to it.  
 

have you started tapering yet with water ie Have you started making cuts?  Or are you still stabilizing on the water pill mixture? 
And do you use regular water?

Are others tapering in this way and have they been successful? 

Thank you! 
 

M

[morgana]

hi @Madeleine i needed to cut the tablet into quarters with a pill cutter as the smallest change in the way i take it causes me insomnia, so i cut the pill into quarters  with a pill cutter and took 1/4 of it in 5mls of water and the 3/4 tablet i swallowed as normal...i did this for a while and than i changed to 1/2 tablet swallowed and the other 1/2 diluted in 10mls of water..the change over to water has really affected me, so i needed to do a slow change over....i have not started tapering yet i am sitting on 2.5mg diluted in 25mls of water and doing that until the end of the year....as i am not travelling too well at the moment.. in the new year i will think about the actual water titration ..hope that helps

 

i am sorry they put you on such a high dosage, i new they would... they always do!

 

so how are you going to taper off 10mg tablets? how long have you been on 10mg?

 

cheers morgana

[Madeleine]

17 hours ago, morgana said:

hi @Madeleine i needed to cut the tablet into quarters with a pill cutter as the smallest change in the way i take it causes me insomnia, so i cut the pill into quarters  with a pill cutter and took 1/4 of it in 5mls of water and the 3/4 tablet i swallowed as normal...i did this for a while and than i changed to 1/2 tablet swallowed and the other 1/2 diluted in 10mls of water..the change over to water has really affected me, so i needed to do a slow change over....i have not started tapering yet i am sitting on 2.5mg diluted in 25mls of water and doing that until the end of the year....as i am not travelling too well at the moment.. in the new year i will think about the actual water titration ..hope that helps

 

i am sorry they put you on such a high dosage, i new they would... they always do!

 

so how are you going to taper off 10mg tablets? how long have you been on 10mg?

 

cheers morgana

I have only been on for about 3 months - I made a little cut to 8.75 already for one week.  I have 7.5 pills so will take those next 

 

how did the change to water affect you? 

[morgana]

hi @Madeleine changing over to water has affected me really bad, most of the people had no problems but for me its been torture....and still dealing with the consequences...i havnt slept for a month now...and i am having burning hot sweats during the night with constant need to urinate and just found out due to back pain that i have mild thoracic disc degeneration and mild osteoporosis...so in constant pain...so not good..however most of the other people on here seem to have very little noticeable symptoms... you shouldnt have many problems as you havnt been on it for long....i have been on it for over 24 years...

 

i wish you the best..morgana

[Madeleine]

How did you feel when you were on 2,5 tablet? 

[morgana]

hi @Madeleine i have been on 2.5mg for over a year now..however i have only been fully dissolving it since the end of june this 2021 (see my drug signature). i am just sitting on this at the moment until my sleep is good again..my cns has been through too many changes and isnt coping the best so will not start water titrating until the next year..next year i will look at the Brass Monkey 2.5% reduction...i will be going slow....just changing over to water has been a real struggle and so i am not tappering yet...just getting use to the dissolved water method...

 

how are you going? where are you sitting at, at the moment? how is your sleep? are you having any symptoms?

 

what is your plan for this year in regards to tapering off zyprexa?

i wish you the best and hope you find it an easy road to travel...cheers morgana

[Madeleine]

On 8/8/2021 at 4:57 AM, morgana said:

 

 

how are you going? where are you sitting at, at the moment? how is your sleep? are you having any symptoms?

 

what is your plan for this year in regards to tapering off zyprexa?

i wish you the best and h

My plan is to go to 7.5 then hold a bit. So far so good. 

[morgana]

i wish you all the best with your taper and hope you dont have too harsh symptoms, looking at your drug signature you seem to know what to do when it comes to tapering, going by your taper off zoloft...i assume zypexa would be the same way, just slower.. as you havnt been on it for long, does the moderators say you could taper more than 10%? or faster in anyway?...cheers morgana

[Madeleine]

On 8/9/2021 at 10:28 PM, morgana said:

i wish you all the best with your taper and hope you dont have too harsh symptoms, looking at your drug signature you seem to know what to do when it comes to tapering, going by your taper off zoloft...i assume zypexa would be the same way, just slower.. as you havnt been on it for long, does the moderators say you could taper more than 10%? or faster in anyway?...cheers morgana

Hi:
Thank you for your best wishes. The moderators have not commented on my situation, so I don't know what they think.

How are you feeling? 

M.

[morgana]

hi @Madeleine thankyou for asking....i am hanging in there...lol my sleep still isnt the best but i have hope..which counts...and still dealing with the hot sweats and constant urinations... but  they were not too bad last night which was a relief...

 

how you going? have you tapered anymore or are you just sitting for the time being? how is your sleep? are you sleeping good hours? that is the most important thing i reckon...getting good quality sleep! keep in touch and take it easy...cheers morgana

[morgana]

hi @hayduke, i had my Pfizer vaccination yesterday, i was sooo overwhelmed i began tearing up before even having it..than afterwards i needed to wait 30 mins i felt light headed and started having reflux issues and began taking in large breaths, nurses rushed over to me and i began crying they rushed me into a room and took my vital signs...i think i over reacted.....lol well its a relief i got it, at present all i feel is a sore arm where i had the needle and a sore muscle in my left leg which is suppose to be a rare side effect, but thats it at present, no flu like symptoms yet...i do not know why i cried ....in the past i have had vaccinations before eg hep B, a vaccination to work with injured fruit bats incase of the larissis virus, i guess because of my bad wd symptoms i was worried getting it would make them worse but hasnt which is a relief...

hey also about 6 months ago you gave me a link to a download for preventing blue light while using the computer...if i recall you said it was free but at the time it kept asking me to pay which i wasnt prepared to do...was it a free download you sent me? if so can you send the link again... as i feel i am watching too much computer and i think its affecting my ability to sleep....you said it was really helpful.. thankyou morgana

[hayduke]

@morgana the anticipation sounds worse than the shot!

You're a bat mum are you?  That's great, we need those critters to keep our forests healthy, and they're so damn cute too.

 

The blue light filter for your screen is

https://justgetflux.com/ - think its built into most phones now too, or you can find an app.  Cheers

[hayduke]

I've moved these previous two posts back into your topic @morgana rather than the DP/DR thread.

[Madeleine]

21 hours ago, morgana said:

hi @Madeleine thankyou for asking....i am hanging in there...lol my sleep still isnt the best but i have hope..which counts...and still dealing with the hot sweats and constant urinations... but  they were not too bad last night which was a relief...

 

how you going? have you tapered anymore or are you just sitting for the time being? how is your sleep? are you sleeping good hours? that is the most important thing i reckon...getting good quality sleep! keep in touch and take it easy...cheers morgana

Thank you for the reply. I am OK.  I am sitting at 7.5 mg for now.  My sleep is adequate. I seem to sleep through the night but wake up quite early.  Hope your sleep improves. 
With best wishes,
M.

[morgana]

thankyou @hayduke your the best...lol

[morgana]

hi @hayduke could i ask you or anyone else out there who may have some experience with Sleep Apps on phone with some advice...since the beginning of the year i write down in a sleep journal the hours i  sleep, quality and the amount of deep sleep, dream recall and writing down how many hours i feel i actually slept...well last night i used a sleep App that said out of the 10 hrs sleep i laid in bed for i had 4 hours and 53 minutes of deep sleep...however i feel personally i did not go into a deep sleep, i felt i was lucky i had 2 or 3 hrs shallow sleeping...now i do not know what to write down in my journal...should i write down how i feel the amount of hours of deep i got or should i write down what the app says? any advice from people would be helpful..cheers morgana

[hayduke]

Hey Morgana.  I don't like apps and stuff getting that up close and personal, I tend to leave my phone in the lounge when I'm sleeping.

 

I do log the hours I slept with my taper notes, and just jot down if I had a rough night's sleep or a sound one if I feel either way about it.

 

Cheers

[DataGuy]

@morgana what sleep app are you using? I have read a bit about them and most tend not to work as advertised. Often the only way to track sleep stages and things like that are polysomnography sleep studies. If you have ever had a sleep study, they will hook you up to an absurd number of wires and electrodes, which ironically make it difficult to sleep. If it were as easy as using an app, they would likely just do that instead, since all the wires are very cumbersome and intrusive. So I would take what it tells you with a grain of salt. 

[morgana]

hi @DataGuy thankyou for your advice, i agree with you its probably just crap....i have decided to just go on how i feel i slept...as going by what the phone app just called sleep on my android phone...is asking for money now,....and i am not paying it....not worth it...

 

i just would love to know if i am actually getting any deep sleep..personally i feel i am not getting any..but i wonder how i actually function OK without it...last night i laid in bed for 10.5 hrs straight, from 11.45pm to 5.30am my body was extremely relaxed eyes closed, mind felt like it was going through a dream story but my brain couldnt produce the pictures to the dream...i couldnt see the actual dream but felt i was having a dream...does that make sense... its like my brain is trying to figure out how to function properly again...but cant...

[DataGuy]

@morgana I have heard from a few people now who have had strange experiences with trying to get to sleep while tapering APs. I remember a couple very specific complaints people had that they lay down to sleep but started "daydreaming" and forgot to try and go to sleep for a long time. I think it is normal to have odd experiences with sleep when in withdrawal. Many complaints also about a lack of deep or restful sleep. This is more predictable, since all of these drugs seem to result in REM (rapid eye movement) rebound upon withdrawal (REM sleep takes up a larger portion of sleep for the night). This is a very normal part of recovery and probably best to think of it as your brain 'catching up' on REM sleep it missed out on while on the medication.

 

I would not get too hung up on feeling like you don't get deep sleep. It could just be you are getting it but you tend to wake up feeling like you haven't. It could be that more REM sleep during the night makes it feel less restful, metabolism and activity are a bit higher during this stage. I think what matters is how you function during the day and your symptoms. The primary impact of bad / little sleep seems to be: feeling bad and maybe a bit of cognitive impairment. There is surprisingly little impact on health. So as long as you can shake it off and get on with your day, you should be ok. 

[morgana]

thankyou @DataGuy for your advice, i appreciate it, lucky i do not work so having a 8hr night deep restful sleep every night isnt a necessary at the moment however i am hoping in a year or two my sleep will be good enough to go back to work...i am doing everything i possibly i can to have a good sleep routine, and i am quite consistent with it...so its just giving my brain and CNS time...thankyou

[morgana]

hello i am looking for some advice out there from someone who may have experience this

 

i was finding it difficult to fall asleep as usual, and so was listening to a meditation deep sleep in bed, it asked me to have create an intention to fall into a sleep, and so i was concentrating on my intention they then asked how i felt about this intention of falling asleep.. i actually felt scared to fall asleep... the more i thought about it, the more i realised i do not feel like i am in my body, and when i start to try to feel heavy and feel my body getting heavy on my bed, i always start to move every time because i feel squeamish in my body which feels really horrible and so i need to keep moving not to feel this yucky feeling...so basically i feel i cannot fall into a sleep... i feel i am basically scared to go into a falling feeling of going into a sleep at present i lay in bed for upto 12 hrs straight, relaxed, eyes closed, mind blank but only feel i sometimes go into a shallow dream kinda of state for short periods...does anyone out there experience this kind of issue and if so does it eventually go away...please let me now..

[Rrsfc]

Hi, I am so sorry you are going through this. I never experienced it, but I wanted to leave you a message of encouragement. I am very prone to anxiety and what works best for me is strong chamomile tea throughout the day and regular exercise, especially running. I run 3x a week 45m and it seems to work for me, maybe it can help you too. Hope you get through this, I also practice belly breathing and mindfulness, you can try that when you're in bed. I also journal a lot and it helps to get everything out. Hope it gets better in time! 

[morgana]

thankyou for your encouragement @Rrsfc and glad you do not experience it...  I exercise i swim laps of the pool, i walk every day, i eat healthy and stick to a sleep routine and i meditate while in bed but nothing seems to work...it is just never ending the constant insomnia, usually no more than a couple of hours a night.. and then maybe once a week i will get a good night where i will sleep a shallow sleep with vivid dreams and than back to a couple of hours again...its torture...thankyou for listening and responding to my post...

[Venkat]

Hi morgana 

I vaguely remember having similar sleep pattern long time ago which sorted by itself with time.

Since you have been holding on 2.5mg for some time now,  your sleep will probably return to normalcy soon. You need to just hang on.

[morgana]

thanks @Venkat, yes i will give it time...thats all i can do and hope it rights its self.....cheers

[BadMedicine]

Hi @morgana. Sorry to hear your sleep is so bad. I think you are doing all the right things to get your sleep pattern back so I’m sure it will right itself eventually. Must be incredibly hard dealing with this though. 
when it does come back you will be in a great place to start your taper.

[hayduke]

Yeah equinox this week innit

 

Near 20 degrees I don’t sleep as long or deeply and sometimes that means slowing the taper or holding longer.

 

Normally people would see it as an indulgence, but can you keep the aircon on during your sleep hours?  Aircon isn’t a luxury when the thermal dysregulation this drug can induce is in play.

 

How about blackout curtains?  Aside from the heat, it’s light that signals your forebrain to wake up.  Especially blue light

 

 

Edited September 25, 2021 by hayduke
typo

[morgana]

hello @hayduke hope your travelling well...could i ask you a question?

 

for the last 3 months i have been dissolving my 2.5mg tablet into 25mls of water..i live in the Tropics so its hot and humid and so i just drop the tablet in and leave it on the bench for 10 mins and than drink it...been doing this for 3 months now...but my sleep is still poor!

 

i think when you do it (what i have read) is you put it in the water and dissolve it and than put it in the fridge for 30 mins before retrieving it and taking it...

 

why do you put it in the fridge? or have i read wrong? am i doing it wrong for some reason? would leaving it on the bench affect it in anyway?

 

any advice would be most appreciated ..cheers morgana

[hayduke]

I don't reckon keeping it in the fridge for 30 minutes while it settles makes that much difference but it seems like a good habit to me. The cooler it is the better it will keep although I notice it goes distinctly bad after seven days. My new fridge is heaps better than my old fridge so it may not even last as long depending, especially up in the tropics. Also somebody here posted they had great trouble after they froze it so just keep it cold not frozen.

[morgana]

hi @hayduke its great your doing so well, i wished i was.....could i ask you or any of the moderators for some advice, i do not know what to do!

 

i have been on 2.5mg zyprexa for 17 months now and for nearly 4 months now i have been drinking 25mls of water with my 2.5mg tablet dissolved in it....my sleep is still really poor...most of the time 2 hrs a night to 3 to 4 hrs and if i am lucky 4 to 5hrs than back  to 1 or 2 hrs again...

 

how can i stabalise my sleep again? should i go back to swallowing 1/2 tablet and 1/2 dissolved or should i just ride it out and just continue drinking the whole dissolved tablet?

 

i need advice...i think my body cannot handle it dissolved i think it prefers solid..

 

please i really need some advice on what to do

 

i have no intention of tapering until my sleep is good again but its been 4 months now with no improvement...

let me know 

cheers morgana

[hayduke]

Sorry to hear about your sleep, that must suck!  Did you try blackout curtains and aircon like I suggested?  A long soak in epsom salts before bed always improves my sleep too.

 

Failing that maybe a visit to a sleep clinic?

[hayduke]

I just never had any real bother crossing over between solid and liquid.

 

I guess you could try the solid tablet for one or two nights and see if you find a difference 

Edited October 23, 2021 by hayduke

[morgana]

thankyou @hayduke, i have tried everything you had suggested i will try going back to solid again and see if i notice a difference than...thanks for getting back to me

[hayduke]

Hope it helps.  It may just be that your body is still working on healing and will benefit from a longer hold.