dadtobe: Klonopin, escitalopram, alcohol, Novocaine - need advice

[dadtobe]

11 hours ago, dadtobe said:

 

If this is the case, I would be hesitant to try to dampen down Lexapro side effects with a benzo. Might be better to reduce the Lexapro. 

 

Let's go down on the Lexapro. What do you suggest as a new dose? If this is causing the burning sensation to be more intense then I want to be off it as fast as possible. I spoke with my Dr. today and in all his 30 years he's said he's never heard of someone with the symptoms I have from Benzo w/d or Lexapro (He also thinks it's just my anxiety returning causing it...). He says I should just stop the Lexapro, but I know better. But maybe going down in dose will show an obvious improvement in the symptoms. If not I need to get off the stuff anyway.

[dadtobe]

9/30

6:00AM - Bowl of Cheerios and Milk

7:30AM -  4.46mg Lexapro

9:30AM -  Klonopin  .03125 mg

10:10am - burning back, arms, can’t sleep

11:05am symptoms feel slightly better, still can’t sleep, took 5mg melatonin

11:15am strawberry banana smoothie

1pm took epsom salt bath, could only last 2 minutes

2:45pm Mac & cheese

3:13pm back burning coming back full force, can’t sleep still

4:27pm Tylenol, starting to get a headache - orange juice

9:58 Banana spinach collagen smoothie

9:58 Unisom, 500mg Tylenol

12:23 Slept for maybe 1 and a half hours. Back and chest burning sensation back full force.

12:41am .015625mg Klonopin (I know I shouldn’t be doing this but my symptoms are still bad, I know I risk kindling taking this dose)

1am-2am - Slept for roughly another hour

3:08am - burning in chest

3:10am - strawberry banana smoothie with collagen protein

4:33am - burning arms, chest, back and insomnia

[Mia1]

Hi dadtobe,

I’ve been reading through your post and I’m so sorry you’re going through this. Not sleeping is difficult but have you tried Melatonin? I think you’re trading one nightmare for another with the Ambien which is also a narcotic. Have you been doing stretching or gentle yoga? This can help tremendously with anxiety and tension in your body. I’m rooting for you!!

[dadtobe]

1 minute ago, Mia1 said:

Hi dadtobe,

I’ve been reading through your post and I’m so sorry you’re going through this. Not sleeping is difficult but have you tried Melatonin? I think you’re trading one nightmare for another with the Ambien which is also a narcotic. Have you been doing stretching or gentle yoga? This can help tremendously with anxiety and tension in your body. I’m rooting for you!!

 

Hey Thanks Mia1. I have been stretching and doing some yoga poses. Unfortunately I don't think that's the source of the burning sensation in my body although it does help with my mild back pain. I've read more about Ambien and you're right I probably shouldn't touch it. I read it's the equivalent to .25-.5mg of Klonopin. That'll just kindle me I think. I just haven't slept in 4 nights except for a couple light hours of sleep last night. I tried melatonin during the day yesterday but no luck. I did unisom and tylenol last night and got maybe 1 hour of sleep. I did a small dose of Klonopin and got another hour of sleep. I have a watch that has my heart rate, and literally if I move around it spikes to 120+, resting heart rate is like 90. My body is just wrecked. 

[Mia1]

I’m happy to hear you’re rethinking the Ambien, with all the scary side effects and addictive nature of the drug you’re better off without it. I know you said you tried melatonin during the day but have you tried it at night? Also, are you taking magnesium? I found this to be very calming to my nervous system. I would try to stay away from OTC medications as one of the moderators said they can have a paradoxical effect and they don’t seem to help you anyway. I know not sleeping is difficult, I had massive issues with it in the beginning. Know it will get better. 

[Shep]

@dadtobe Let's set up a game plan for going forward. Something that you can stick to. You're throwing everything at this at once and it's really hard to guide you in any plan at this point. 

 

First, let's look at some dietary issues. 

 

On 9/25/2020 at 7:48 AM, dadtobe said:

3:00pm - kale banana almond milk protein avocado oil smoothie

 

On 9/30/2020 at 3:30 AM, dadtobe said:

12:50pm - Strawberry banana smoothie w/ protein

 

What type of protein are you adding to your smoothies? If it's a mix and contains a lot of vitamins, you may want to stop drinking this. Some vitamins, such as B12, tend to be stimulating to people going through withdrawal. Also, some protein powders are highly processed. Try to avoid processed foods. 

 

4 hours ago, dadtobe said:

11:05am symptoms feel slightly better, still can’t sleep, took 5mg melatonin

 

Two problems with this - (1) melatonin should be taken at night and (2) 5 mg is far too high a dose. Please see:

 

Melatonin for sleep

 

That first post has instructions for exactly how to take melatonin and the starting dose, which is .25mg-.50mg.

 

You're also continuing to add in Unisom. Please see:

 

Antihistamines for withdrawal insomnia (diphenhydramine, doxylamine, hydroxyzine)

 

As noted earlier:

 

On 9/20/2020 at 3:17 PM, Shep said:

Please be careful of using OTC drugs like Unisom. They tend to turn paradoxical and can also cause dependency problems. 

 

On 9/23/2020 at 8:59 AM, Shep said:

Please don't add anything right now. It's important to know how the Klonopin reinstatement is working. You don't want to mask the symptoms of a reinstatement. Also, the more you dampen down your nervous system with sedating supplements, the more likely you'll have a paradoxical reaction.

 

Adding in a large amount of melatonin and using Unisom while trying to reinstate Klonopin is really complicating things. 

 

1 hour ago, dadtobe said:

I've read more about Ambien and you're right I probably shouldn't touch it. I read it's the equivalent to .25-.5mg of Klonopin. That'll just kindle me I think

 

You would be better off sticking to Klonopin than introducing another drug, so I'm glad you're not going to take Ambien. 

 

5 hours ago, dadtobe said:

I spoke with my Dr. today and in all his 30 years he's said he's never heard of someone with the symptoms I have from Benzo w/d or Lexapro (He also thinks it's just my anxiety returning causing it...).

 

You may want to show him the new leaflet that just came out from the Royal College of Psychiatry (it's the UK equivalent of the American Psychiatric Association here in the US): 

 

Stopping antidepressants

 

It's clear that antidepressants come with a potentially severe withdrawal that can last a long time. It's unfortunate that this information is taking so long to get out to medical doctors. 

 

5 hours ago, dadtobe said:

 

Let's go down on the Lexapro. What do you suggest as a new dose? If this is causing the burning sensation to be more intense then I want to be off it as fast as possible.

 

Let's set up a game plan.

 

Questions / comments:

 

1. Do you wish to continue with the Klonopin? If so, find a dose and stick to it. 
2. If you don't wish to continue the Klonopin, stop taking it and stick to the same Lexapro dose consistently for a few days to see what your baseline is. Then we can discuss reducing the dose. 

 

Dadtobe, I know how hard this is. It's not a matter of getting off the Lexapro as quickly as possible because even if you're having side effects from the Lexapro, you also are suffering from nervous system destabilization. So going off Lexapro too quickly can make the symptoms worse because it will destabilize your nervous system even more. 

 

By working a bit more with your diet, as mentioned earlier in this post, and not taking large amounts of melatonin (try a small amount) and avoiding Unisom, you may be able to reduce some of your symptoms. It's going to be uncomfortable for awhile. I wish there were easier answers, but unfortunately, it's something you just have to get through. 

 

[dadtobe]

8 hours ago, Shep said:

Questions / comments:

 

1. Do you wish to continue with the Klonopin? If so, find a dose and stick to it.  
2. If you don't wish to continue the Klonopin, stop taking it and stick to the same Lexapro dose consistently for a few days to see what your baseline is. Then we can discuss reducing the dose. 

 

 

1. I think I have to continue taking it, without it I'm completely debilitated. The pain is so severe. I'm not symptom free yet even on it, but I can at least lie down without being in massive pain. However I'm still not sleeping although I got maybe 2 hours of light sleep last night. It's been 4 nights now without sleep. Should I keep going up in dose until my symptoms go away or do I need to try and stick to this low dose? I'm afraid to kindle, but if this isn't relieving my symptoms it feels like I'm just going to hover in this state. Last time I got a window after 2 days on a very low dose, and now I'm on 3 days and still not sleeping. If I could just get 1 night of sleep I feel like I could recover and get a window.

 

2. I've been at the same Lexapro dose for 13 days now. 

 

I know I have a long journey ahead of me. 

 

Edited October 1, 2020 by ChessieCat
unbolded

[Shep]

8 minutes ago, dadtobe said:

2. I've been at the same Lexapro dose for 13 days now. 

 

Please see how you do today and tonight without adding in complicators. 

 

I'll ask the mods more familiar with Lexapro to weigh in, but it's possible you could go back to where you were 13 days ago. Please don't reduce it just yet. Keep the Klonopin dose the same - same time(s) of the day and at the same dose. 

[Shep]

Also, please keep your signature updated so when other mods drop by, it's clear what your recent changes have been. We need to know when and how much Klonopin you've been taking since 9/22, which is when it's last mentioned in your signature. Thanks.

 

Account settings - Create or Edit Your Signature

[dadtobe]

24 minutes ago, Shep said:

I'll ask the mods more familiar with Lexapro to weigh in, but it's possible you could go back to where you were 13 days ago. Please don't reduce it just yet. Keep the Klonopin dose the same - same time(s) of the day and at the same dose.

 

I'll do my best. 

 

 

[Altostrata]

11 hours ago, dadtobe said:

9/30

6:00AM - Bowl of Cheerios and Milk

7:30AM -  4.46mg Lexapro

9:30AM -  Klonopin  .03125 mg

10:10am - burning back, arms, can’t sleep

11:05am symptoms feel slightly better, still can’t sleep, took 5mg melatonin

11:15am strawberry banana smoothie

1pm took epsom salt bath, could only last 2 minutes

2:45pm Mac & cheese

3:13pm back burning coming back full force, can’t sleep still

4:27pm Tylenol, starting to get a headache - orange juice

9:58 Banana spinach collagen smoothie

9:58 Unisom, 500mg Tylenol

12:23 Slept for maybe 1 and a half hours. Back and chest burning sensation back full force.

12:41am .015625mg Klonopin (I know I shouldn’t be doing this but my symptoms are still bad, I know I risk kindling taking this dose)

1am-2am - Slept for roughly another hour

3:08am - burning in chest

3:10am - strawberry banana smoothie with collagen protein

4:33am - burning arms, chest, back and insomnia

 

Now your symptom pattern is confounded by the drug experimentation and irregular schedule.

 

Before, you started taking Klonopin in the morning, it looked like your symptoms ramped up after taking Lexapro, indicating too much Lexapro.

 

Now you're taking Klonopin at the time you might have had that ramp-up from Lexapro. You're taking irregular amounts of Klonopin on an irregular schedule.

 

It also doesn't seem to be helping. It's possible you're taking too much Klonopin, causing a paradoxical reaction adding to the adverse effects of Lexapro.

 

If I were you, I'd take only the nightly dose of .015625mg Klonopin, which may help you sleep, and keep your Lexapro on schedule so we can see what's going on.

 

We cannot give you an instant fix.

[dadtobe]

10/1

5:51am - Klonopin .03125 mg

6:48am - didn’t get much relief from Klonopin. Palms and feet sweaty, back, chest and arms burning.

7:50am - hands and palms sweaty. Back, arms burning

8:19am - neck burning and some burning on face

9:30am - 4.46mg Lexapro 

9:43am - back burns, arms burn

10:00am - Cheerios & Milk

12:38pm - Took a shower, symptoms feel a little better. Can feel burning in legs

2:31pm - palms and feet sweaty, burning. Able to sit still though. Very tired

3:53pm - palms and feet less sweaty, back burning, chest / stomach still a bit burning.

4:29pm - Chobani Greek Vanilla Yogurt and Annie’s organic Mac & cheese

5:51pm - Epsom salt bath

5:57pm - 1mg melatonin

6:30ish to 11pmish - Slept! 

11:45pm - .015625mg (trying to get on same schedule)

11:45pm 500mg Tylenol. Really bad headache actually sleeping for first time in 5 nights I’m guessing

12amish to 5amish - Slept more!

5:45am .03125 mg Klonopin

 

Definitely going back to stabilization. Symptoms right now, very very mild burning, and that’s about it.

[dadtobe]

13 hours ago, Altostrata said:

Now your symptom pattern is confounded by the drug experimentation and irregular schedule.

 

Before, you started taking Klonopin in the morning, it looked like your symptoms ramped up after taking Lexapro, indicating too much Lexapro.

 

Now you're taking Klonopin at the time you might have had that ramp-up from Lexapro. You're taking irregular amounts of Klonopin on an irregular schedule.

 

It also doesn't seem to be helping. It's possible you're taking too much Klonopin, causing a paradoxical reaction adding to the adverse effects of Lexapro.

 

If I were you, I'd take only the nightly dose of .015625mg Klonopin, which may help you sleep, and keep your Lexapro on schedule so we can see what's going on.

 

We cannot give you an instant fix.

 

Thanks Altostrata. I know it's really hard to be consistent with this. But I'm learning quickly (well slowly) that it's really time and not dose that helps. I'll be consistent from now on as much as I possibly can be. I'm fairly confident my withdrawal symptoms are related to Klonopin, but may be exacerbated by the Lexapro. I did not notice the intense burning I do now prior to taking Lexapro, but I was also fine for a month on just Lexapro after I jumped from Klonopin with no burning w/d symptoms or insomnia until after I had Lidocaine at the dentist or alcohol. I think something triggered me to go through Klonopin w/d after I rapid tapered and jumped relatively easily. But it's really all a guess. 

[dadtobe]

Just a heads up before you guys give up on me. I changed Lexapro yesterday to 9:30AM from 7:30AM because I was waiting for Shep's response about possibly going down on dose. I'm keeping it at 9:30AM now because it allows me 4ish hours in the morning without it to see what I'm going to feel like that day rather than taking it right in the morning so I can't tell whether I feel bad in the morning or good from the Lexapro. I won't change anything else now that I think I'm stabilized again today. Just like last time it took me 3 days after reinstating Klonopin for the w/d effects to go away.  Thank you guys so much for the help. I would have reinstated a much more massive amount if I didn't have you guys pushing me to keep it at a lower dose. Also the epsom bath is very relaxing before I sleep. Also switched to 1mg of melatonin based on the guide of starting out at .5-1 before going to 2mg. Hopefully the window continues. 

 

 

[Mia1]

I’m so happy you slept last night and feel stabilized today!

[dadtobe]

22 hours ago, Mia1 said:

I’m so happy you slept last night and feel stabilized today!

 

Eh was good to get 1 day of peace! But unfortunately today I was not so lucky! But feels like I'm moving in the right direction. Thanks for the support. 

[dadtobe]

10/2

5:45am .03125 mg Klonopin

6:43am Burning slightly returning, some anxiety

7:00am Chobani strawberry banana yogurt

8:02am feels like I have hypersensitivity to anxiety in stomach, sweaty palms, feet still

9:00am bowl of milk and plain corn flakes

9:30am 4.46mg Lexapro 

12:54am - very mild burning sensation, sweaty palms, feet

1:30pm - Pastrami sandwich with organic whole wheat bread

3:30pm - homemade beef stew

4:30pm - Annies organic Mac & cheese 

4:35pm - very mild back and stomach burning but otherwise best I’ve felt in 4 days. Almost normal

7pm - 1mg melatonin, epsom salt bath

8pm - tried to sleep, but no luck, symptoms aren’t noticeable figured I’d fall right to sleep

8:30pm - Country passion peach tea. Didn't realize it had anything GABA related. (Orange peel, rosehips, hawthorn, chamomile, blackberry leaves, hibiscus, peaches and citric acid)

10pm - took .015625mg (this moved up because I was taking it at an odd hour due to insomnia, trying to get it up to taking it before bed)

10:30pmish - 12:45am slept - woke to burning sensations again, but fell back to sleep for a little longer

 

10/3

4:14am - burning sensations getting stronger, left foot / leg feels tingly / numb right ear has slight tinnitus (new symptoms)

4:43am - chobani mixed berry yogurt

5:45am - .03125 mg Klonopin

6:39am - burning is less but chest has weird amped up feeling again. 

6:57am - feeling a little less amped but hard to sit still or focus

7:05am - Annies organic Mac and cheese

 

I'm thinking my negative affects today might be from drinking the tea last night. I felt stable yesterday. 

 

Had calls with many doctors over the last couple days. Psych who gave me Lexapro in the first place prescribed me Ambien which I didn't take, another wants to put me on Gabapentin and for me to go off Lexapro in 1 month, wanted to me crossover to valium even though he couldn't figure out how much to give me since I was on such a low dose of Klonopin and literally made fun of the Ashton method, my PCP who originally gave me Klonopin doesn't believe I have w/d and passed me off to another doctor. The other doctor at the same office actually gave me decent advice but then said I need to go to Rehab and gave me the phone number for the first result for a rehab place on Google. I live on an island so there is no good healthcare here and every benzo-wise doctor we've reached out to on various lists refuse to see out of state / country patients. Sigh.

 

What is particularly concerning though is none of the doctors have ever heard of someone having the severe burning sensations I'm feeling in my back, chest, stomach, and legs when I'm in w/d. 

[dadtobe]

10/3

4:14am - burning sensations getting stronger, left foot / leg feels tingly / numb right ear has slight tinnitus (new symptoms)

4:43am - chobani mixed berry yogurt

5:45am - .03125 mg Klonopin

6:39am - burning is less but chest has weird amped up feeling again. 

6:57am - feeling a little less amped but hard to sit still or focus

7:05am - Annies organic Mac and cheese

9:30am - 4.46mg Lexapro 

9:51am - bowl of cornflakes and milk

10:05am - little more relaxed but burning is returning a bit more

12:05pm - still uncomfortable, back burning pain is back, pacing house

1:30pm - bowl of homemade beef stew

2:12pm - feeling slightly better but still pretty bad. No severe burning, but heart rate is up, hard to sit still, back pain from pacing around the house. 

4:36pm - burning sensation is stronger but I can sit still now. Feel tired

4:36pm - Chobani mixed berry greek yogurt

4:53pm - Annies organic Mac and cheese

6:30pm - Vegatable cauliflower pizza & glass of milk

7:01pm - Still some light burning sensation in back, chest, legs. Left foot still feels a bit numb. Mostly feel ok though.

7:00pm - 1 mg melatonin

7:30pm - fell asleep on the couch

12:41am - .015625mg Klonopin (was trying to work this back but fell asleep on the couch before I had a chance to take it)

12:41am - woke up for an hour and a half

2am - Vegatable cauliflower pizza & glass of milk

 

10/4

5:40am - woke up feeling generally unwell, slight nausea,  slight burning, left toes still slightly numb, right ear slight tinnitus. Better than yesterday though.

5:45am - .03125 mg Klonopin

 

Slept probably 8 hours last night which is a good thing, but still not feeling great today. 10/3 I felt much better in the afternoon. Was able to sit still. I feel better today in the morning than I did yesterday so it feels like I'm moving in right direction.... 

[Shep]

11 hours ago, dadtobe said:

Slept probably 8 hours last night which is a good thing, but still not feeling great today. 10/3 I felt much better in the afternoon. Was able to sit still. I feel better today in the morning than I did yesterday so it feels like I'm moving in right direction.... 

 

This is a great update, dadtobe. Please keep everything steady and see if you can build on this and come to a better baseline. 

[dadtobe]

18 minutes ago, Shep said:

 

This is a great update, dadtobe. Please keep everything steady and see if you can build on this and come to a better baseline. 

 

Thanks Shep. Will do! Thanks for keeping me responsible. I would have re-instated much more Klonopin if you had not suggested such a low dose. You pushing me to not up dose anymore was really tough to listen to for a few days there but you saved me a lot of future suffering now that things seem to be going the right direction.  I read your story. I don't know how you did it! I'm so weak compared to you. I feel like I have no right to complain when I'm such a short-termer. You're an amazing person for what you do.

[dadtobe]

10/4

5:40am - woke up feeling generally unwell, slight nausea,  slight burning, left toes still slightly numb, right ear slight tinnitus. Better than yesterday though.

5:45am - .03125 mg Klonopin

7:12 - feeling 80%. Mostly a slightly wired feeling / very very slight burning but feel good so far today

9am - Cornflakes and Milk

9:30am - 4.46mg Lexapro 

10:30am - Waffles + maple syrup + butter + strawberries + orange juice

11:15am - Tired, stomach anxiety is easy to trigger. Otherwise almost feel normal

2:00pm - Bagel & Cream Cheese & 2 eggs

3:24pm - Almost feel normal, sweaty palms and hands

4:30pm - Pastrami Sandwich

7:45p - tried to sleep

10:30pm - still not asleep

10:30pm - .015625mg Klonopin (working this back again, I’m afraid it might be paradoxical and not allow me to sleep so I've been hesitant to take it to sleep right away)

 

Slept roughly 4 hours maybe. I think the slight wiredness, with my last w/d I had morning anxiety. I don't feel the physical effects of anxiety in my stomach, but thinking it's maybe showing up as the wired feeling I'm getting. The Lexipro I don't notice any significant negatives from after I take it. 

 

10/5

4:30am - Woke up feeling generally unwell, same as yesterday but got less sleep. Slight burning, nausea.

5:45am - .03125 mg Klonopin

 

@Shep I saw you mentioned in another thread that A/D and Benzo withdrawal are very similar. Does A/D withdrawal generally show up within the same timeframe as Benzo w/d? Usually I can tell benzo withdrawal in basically 3-5 days on Klonopin after making a cut, I'm sure if I was on a shorter half life med it'd be even less than that. I'm assuming even if something like Lexapro has a 30 hour half-life I might not notice w/d for several weeks? 

[ChessieCat]

52 minutes ago, dadtobe said:

I'm assuming even if something like Lexapro has a 30 hour half-life I might not notice w/d for several weeks? 

 

That is why SA recommends holding for about 4 weeks after a reduction, because yes, it might take 2-3 weeks for withdrawal symptoms to appear.

 

See the first 3 posts in this topic:  Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

[dadtobe]

1 minute ago, ChessieCat said:

That is why SA recommends holding for about 4 weeks after a reduction, because yes, it might take 2-3 weeks for withdrawal symptoms to appear.

 

See the first 3 posts in this topic:  Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

Thanks @ChessieCat

Ya that's what I read that led me to believe that.  I'm not stable yet so I'm only thinking ahead. I have some tough decisions to make regarding tapering off Klonopin again or tapering Lexapro. 

[Shep]

14 hours ago, dadtobe said:

 I read your story. I don't know how you did it! I'm so weak compared to you. I feel like I have no right to complain when I'm such a short-termer. You're an amazing person for what you do.

 

Thanks, dadtobe. You're very kind. But everyone has the right to complain when they're sick. We all have our own battles. 

 

1 hour ago, dadtobe said:

I have some tough decisions to make regarding tapering off Klonopin again or tapering Lexapro. 

 

I would keep the Klonopin as is. Continuing to go on and off it is going to make the kindling worse. 

 

I see where you wrote "feeling 80%" and that you're getting some sleep, although I'm sure it's not enough. But do you feel that "overall" you're doing better now? We're looking for "overall" improvements because that means the Klonopin reinstatement is going in the right direction. There may be some window and wave activity, but if you look back at where you were when you first came into this forum, if you feel a bit more stable, than you're where you need to be right now. 

 

[dadtobe]

45 minutes ago, Shep said:

see where you wrote "feeling 80%" and that you're getting some sleep, although I'm sure it's not enough. But do you feel that "overall" you're doing better now? We're looking for "overall" improvements because that means the Klonopin reinstatement is going in the right direction. There may be some window and wave activity, but if you look back at where you were when you first came into this forum, if you feel a bit more stable, than you're where you need to be right now. 

 

Yea, I'm doing better overall. I think moving towards stability definitely. I wake up still feeling generally unwell, can't quite figure out why, but I feel ok / pretty good after a couple hours of waking up. Guessing morning anxiety, although it's not the pit of stomach anxiety it's just uncomfortable. This has been the past few days. So if I had to bet, I think reinstatement is working.

[dadtobe]

10/5

4:30am - Woke up feeling generally unwell, same as yesterday. Slight burning, nausea. Less sleep than yesterday

5:38am - .03125 mg Klonopin

6:10am - hands and feet sweaty

6:58am - mostly feeling stable. Still feel slightly unwell but so far going to be a better day

7:30am - Corn flakes and milk + Spinach Banana smoothie

8:14am - slightly more wired feeling / anxiety (maybe work-related)

10:00am - Mango Chobani

10:31am - Bowl of Cheerios with honey on top and Milk

10:53am - 4.46mg Lexapro (Took Lexapro an hour 20 minutes late, got caught up with work and forgot, alarm is set in phone now)

11:30am - some anxiety, I think work-related, hands sweaty, slight burning

1:00pm - Spinach Banana smoothie

1:23pm - slight burning but feel good otherwise

1:38pm - Gatorade zero glacier freeze (I know this is bad) & maple and brown sugar oatmeal

4-6pm - Chicken

7:30pm - Sleep

1:00Am - Bowl of corn flakes and milk

1:00am - .015625mg Klonopin (Keep taking this after I wake up in the middle of night, time is still not consistent)

2:00am - Sleep

 

10/6

5:20am - woke up feeling generally unwell, slight burning. But better than yesterday. Slept a bit light but think I slept 7ish hours.

5:45am - .03125 mg Klonopin

6:00am - Bowl of Corn Flakes and Milk

 

I think I'm 90% stabilized at the moment as far as symptoms are concerned. Almost back to my usual self. 

[dadtobe]

@Shep

 

I've been on Lexapro now since 7/20. Approximately 78 days total on Lexapro. I've been on an average of roughly 3-5mg for the past 30 days. I'd really like to try and lower my dose to 2.5-3mg from 4.46mg which is what I was at 2 weeks ago and see if I have w/d symptoms after 3 weeks while maintaining the Klonopin amount. I know this may seem crazy, but as I'm stabilized on Klonopin, I need to know whether it's the Lexapro or the Klonopin that caused my w/d in the first place. The reason being is that it'll affect whether I taper back off the Klonopin first or whether I taper off the Lexapro first. Now that I have the brake of K available to me, I really don't want to be on either of these drugs doing a crazy long-term taper unless I absolutely have to. Any thoughts here? I know the 10% per month thing, but I feel like on either of these, every day longer I'm on them, the greater the dependency I'm going to create. I also know that re-instating Klonopin again after this re-instatement is no longer an option if I'm somehow sensitive to Lexapro withdrawal. At this point because I had the returning chemical feeling anxiety right after the dentist visit and the day after, I'm pretty convinced whatever the doctor gave me triggered a setback / withdrawal for Klonopin and it wasn't my Lexapro taper. So by tapering the Lexapro if I can see if I get serious w/d symptoms I know that I will need to go very slowly with it but at least I have Klonopin around to help ease the symptoms if I am sensitive.

 

 

 

 

 

[dadtobe]

10/6

5:20am - woke up feeling generally unwell, slight burning. But better than yesterday. Slept a bit light but think I slept 7ish hours.

5:45am - .03125 mg Klonopin

6:00am - Bowl of Corn Flakes and Milk

7:20am - reintroducing fish oil 1000mg + 400IU vitamin E. While I’m stabilizing and can’t go up or down may as well get my supplements in. I figure fish oil + vit e is pretty safe.

9:30am - 4.46mg Lexapro 

10:46am - Slight anxiety, slight burning in stomach area (think it’s work related), definitely more sensitive to anxiety again since re-instating K

12:30pm - Chicken

1:33pm - Anxiety / slight burning - overthinking work related problems

2:00pm - Bagel and Cream Cheese

3:44pm - Lemonade and Cheerios and Milk w/ honey

3:44pm - Symptoms are barely noticeable other than overactive anxiety

6:04pm - Spinach Banana Smoothie

7:30pm - Sleep

 

Slept almost 8 hours straight woohoo!

I'd rate yesterday an 85% for how I felt.

 

10/7

4am - .015625mg Klonopin (I might combine this with morning dose moving forward)

4am - Woke up. Symptoms hardly noticeable today

5:45am - .03125 mg Klonopin

6:00am -  Onion Bagel & Cream Cheese

6:00am - 2000mg fish oil + 400IU Vitamin E

 

[Shep]

On 10/6/2020 at 6:52 AM, dadtobe said:

I think I'm 90% stabilized at the moment as far as symptoms are concerned. Almost back to my usual self. 

 

 

36 minutes ago, dadtobe said:

Slept almost 8 hours straight woohoo!

I'd rate yesterday an 85% for how I felt.

 

This is excellent, dadtobe. 

 

17 hours ago, dadtobe said:

I've been on Lexapro now since 7/20. Approximately 78 days total on Lexapro. I've been on an average of roughly 3-5mg for the past 30 days. I'd really like to try and lower my dose to 2.5-3mg from 4.46mg which is what I was at 2 weeks ago and see if I have w/d symptoms after 3 weeks while maintaining the Klonopin amount.

 

You started Lexapro in May, didn't you? I'm looking at your signature and just want to make sure we have your information correct. 

 

I'd also like to see you reduce the Lexapro down to about 3 mg.

 

However, I would hold a bit longer and build a more solid foundation. You are finally sleeping all night and feeling 85 - 90% better. If the Lexapro were causing a lot of side effects, you wouldn't be doing so well. It's possible a lot of the problem was with the benzo, not Lexapro. 

 

What do you think about holding for a few more days? The goal is to be functional, not just drug free. Please post your thoughts on this. 

 

 

[dadtobe]

11 minutes ago, Shep said:

 

 

 

This is excellent, dadtobe. 

 

 

You started Lexapro in May, didn't you? I'm looking at your signature and just want to make sure we have your information correct. 

 

I'd also like to see you reduce the Lexapro down to about 3 mg.

 

However, I would hold a bit longer and build a more solid foundation. You are finally sleeping all night and feeling 85 - 90% better. If the Lexapro were causing a lot of side effects, you wouldn't be doing so well. It's possible a lot of the problem was with the benzo, not Lexapro. 

 

What do you think about holding for a few more days? The goal is to be functional, not just drug free. Please post your thoughts on this. 

 

 

 

Sorry the new line limit on the signature was a struggle, I started Lexapro 7/20. I had to combine a few lines to get the system to take my signature. I started Lexapro 2 months after Klonopin.

 

I appreciate your advice, I think I'm just ready to take the next step in getting myself off of these. I feel like I'm stable now. I'm going to go down to 3mg today and hold the K. Hopefully I'm not incorrect in what was causing my w/d but at least I have the K as a brake now so it shouldn't be as bad as before.

 

 

[Shep]

1 minute ago, dadtobe said:

 I'm going to go down to 3mg today and hold the K.

 

I would really caution against this. You have only been sleeping well for a couple of nights and you just re-introduced two supplements: 

 

1 hour ago, dadtobe said:

7:20am - reintroducing fish oil 1000mg + 400IU vitamin E. While I’m stabilizing and can’t go up or down may as well get my supplements in. I figure fish oil + vit e is pretty safe.

 

It's your choice what you do, dadtobe, but if you have problems with a Lexapro reduction, you won't know if it's the supplements (or even which one), a wave, a problem with the benzo reinstatement, or the Lexapro reduction. 

 

5 minutes ago, dadtobe said:

Hopefully I'm not incorrect in what was causing my w/d but at least I have the K as a brake now so it shouldn't be as bad as before.

 

Technically the Klonopin may not be acting so much as a brake as it is in just simply staving off benzo withdrawal. I wouldn't count on it to hold the Jenga puzzle together while you're making so many other changes. 

 

It's not just one thing - it's the entire puzzle that you need to hold together. 

 

You're doing well right now. Why risk destabilizing yourself? 

[dadtobe]

12 minutes ago, Shep said:

 

I would really caution against this. You have only been sleeping well for a couple of nights and you just re-introduced two supplements: 

 

 

It's your choice what you do, dadtobe, but if you have problems with a Lexapro reduction, you won't know if it's the supplements (or even which one), a wave, a problem with the benzo reinstatement, or the Lexapro reduction. 

 

 

Technically the Klonopin may not be acting so much as a brake as it is in just simply staving off benzo withdrawal. I wouldn't count on it to hold the Jenga puzzle together while you're making so many other changes. 

 

It's not just one thing - it's the entire puzzle that you need to hold together. 

 

You're doing well right now. Why risk destabilizing yourself? 

Ok I'll hold off a couple days.

[Shep]

4 minutes ago, dadtobe said:

Ok I'll hold off a couple days.

 

Thanks, dadtobe. I'm hoping your 90% feeling good continues. 

[dadtobe]

10/7

4am - .015625mg Klonopin (I might combine this with morning dose moving forward)

5:45am - .03125 mg Klonopin

6:00am -  Onion Bagel & Cream Cheese

6:00am - 2000mg fish oil + 400IU vit E

8:48am - Slight anxiety

1:28pm - Onion Bagel & Cream Cheese

1:28pm - Stronger Anxiety today. Maybe work related.

3:27pm - Annie’s Mac and Cheese

6:00pm - Chicken

7:00pm - 1mg Melatonin

8:00pm - Sleep

 

I'd say 90%. The easily triggered mild anxiety is the only thing I'm noticing right now.

 

10/8

4:00am - woke up - feeling almost 100% today, no noticeable symptoms

5:45am - .04687 Klonopin (combined the nightly and morning together)

[Shep]

100% is about the best you can report! Glad you're doing so well.

 

BUT, please stop making changes. 

 

42 minutes ago, dadtobe said:

5:45am - .04687 Klonopin (combined the nightly and morning together)

 

Let this be your last change. If your symptom pattern gets worse, you won't know if it's from the change in timing or if the reinstatement is going south. 

 

Let's keep the variables to a minimum. I know you feel like you should be "doing something," but holding IS doing something.

 

Look at it this way - if you break your arm, a doctor sets it in a cast. That cast holds your arm in place so the bone can heal over time. You wouldn't think of removing the cast too soon. 

 

Right now, this particular dose of benzo, taken at this particular time of day, is "setting" your nervous system so it can heal over time. Just like with a cast, you don't want to remove the benzo too soon (or change the timing). 

 

While you're feeling up to it, now is the time to work on non-drug coping skills: 

 

Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms

 

Acceptance is the most powerful skill you can learn to navigate withdrawal:

 

Acceptance

 

[dadtobe]

2 hours ago, Shep said:

Let this be your last change. If your symptom pattern gets worse, you won't know if it's from the change in timing or if the reinstatement is going south. 

 

Let's keep the variables to a minimum. I know you feel like you should be "doing something," but holding IS doing something.

 

Look at it this way - if you break your arm, a doctor sets it in a cast. That cast holds your arm in place so the bone can heal over time. You wouldn't think of removing the cast too soon. 

 

Right now, this particular dose of benzo, taken at this particular time of day, is "setting" your nervous system so it can heal over time. Just like with a cast, you don't want to remove the benzo too soon (or change the timing). 

 

I understand. This is really the last change I think.