Jump to content
phenylbot

phenylbot: 6 months in Nardil / phenelzine withdrawal

Recommended Posts

phenylbot
Posted (edited)

Hi, I've read many people's stories on here and have found them to be strikingly similar to my experience with protracted withdrawal.

I took nardil 60 mgs. for close to thirty years and found it had a real effect on my low mood and ability to socialize. In February of 2020

I discovered that nardil was put on permanent back order. This resulted in too rapid a taper and subsequent suffering with anxiety, depression social 

anhedonia, depersonalization....you name it.

 

In hindsight the years I was on this med seem less productive to me than I may have realized while still medicated. I left a union job, was foolishly fired 

from a good job that I excelled in as well as a plethora of other poorly navigated life decisions. I now ruminate over these events constantly and revisit them 

with a daily early cortisol spike which disrupts my sleep.

 

It's been over 6 months since my last nardil tablet and things have not improved much. Some days are worse than others ...the worst being mornings when 

this trancelike depersonalization saps me of my minimal energy reserves. 

 

I've not really used any other meds over the years other than a mild weed indulgence. I've never been much of a drinker and am told I'm in good physical health.

 

Wondering if I should try reinstating a small dose of nardil at this late stage as it's become available again? 

 

I've really been inspired by the stories on here and I think highly of the efforts taken to shed light on this scary issue of antidepressant withdrawl. 

Any advise would be appreciated.

 

Thanks,

 Phenylbot

Edited by Gridley

  • 1992-2020-Nardil altered between 45 and 60 mgs
  • March 2020 fast 1 month taper from 45 mg to zero
  • severe anxiety lack of motivation and catastrophizing
  • numbness in right shoulder
  • ruminating about past decisions
  • early waking , poor quality sleep
  • intrusive negative thoughts
  • 6.5 months med free with very slight improvement
  • October 2020 quite depressed

Share this post


Link to post
Gridley
Posted (edited)

Welcome to phenylbot.

 

To give members the best information, we ask them to summarize their medication history in a signature -- drugs, doses, dates, and discontinuations & reinstatements, in the last 12-24 months particularly.Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature.

 

I'm sorry you ran into this drug supply situation. The symptoms you describe are typical of withdrawal.  

 

Reinstatement of a very small dose of the original drug is the only known way to help alleviate withdrawal syndrome.  The only other alternative is to try and wait out the symptoms and manage as best you can until your central nervous system returns to homeostasis.  Unfortunately no one can give you an exact timeline as to when you will start feeling better. 

 

Reinstatement isn't a guarantee of diminished symptoms for everyone but it's the best tactic available.  Reinstatement predictably works up to 3 months after last dose.  You're six months out, so it might work or it might not.  There's a possibility it could make things worse.  We usually suggest a much smaller reinstatement dose than your last dose.  These drugs are strong, and when reinstating it is better to start with a small amount, your system has become sensitized and If you take too much it may be too much for your brain.    Please read:

 

About reinstating and stabilizing to reduce withdrawal symptoms. -- at least the first page of the topic

 

If I understand correctly, you stopped cold turkey from 60mg Nardil. Is that correct?  If you're interested in reinstating, let me know and we will suggest a reinstatement dosage.  Please don't reinstate without letting us suggest a dosage.

 

We don't recommend a lot of supplements on SA, as many members report being sensitive to them due to our over-reactive nervous systems, but two supplements that we do recommend are magnesium and omega 3 (fish oil). Many people find these to be calming to the nervous system. 

 

Magnesium, nature's calcium channel blocker 

 

Omega-3 fatty acids (fish oil) 

 

Add in one at a time and at a low dose in case you do experience problems.

 

This is your Introduction topic, where you ask questions and connect with other members.  We're glad you found your way here.

Edited by manymoretodays
removed weird white space :0

Gridley Introduction

 

Lexapro 20 mg since 2004.  Began taper using Brassmonkey slide Jan. 2017.   

End 2017 year 1 of taper at 9.25mg 

End 2018 year 2 of taper at 4.1mg

End 2019 year 3 of taper at 1.0mg  

Current from Oct. 21, 2020 at 0.025mg

Taper is 99.875% complete.

 

Lorazepam 1 mg 1986-1991 CT, resumed a few months later. CT 2000.  1 mg 2011-2016.  Sept, 2016 increased to 0.5 X 3 in split dose. Sept. 2019 increased to 0.625 X 3 after crossover to new brand

 

Imipramine 75 mg daily since 1986.  Jan. 2016 began every 3-weeks 10% taper, down to 15mg.  Aug 2016, discovered SA, updosed to 25mg and holding.  Taper is 66% complete.  

  

Supplements: omega, vitamins E and D3, magnesium glycinate, probiotic, melatonin .3mg


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice, but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

Share this post


Link to post
phenylbot

Hello Gridley, I'm thinking of reinstating nardil. It seems to me that one quarter of a tablet apx 3.5 milligrams is a reasonable start. 

Please let me know if this is too much. 

   It's difficult for me to recognize a window, although I seem to have some days that are better than others. 

   A big problem for me is that I moved from my home in the city to be with my common-law spouse. We had a child together. After 

 8 yrs. my spouse passed away; leaving me to care for our 8 yr. old daughter. We had to move again to a place where we don't know anyone. 

A big problem for me has always been establishing new friends. Now I ruminate about my lack of social contacts.  This didn't seem to phase me 

while I was still on nardil. Now the prospect of no social contacts near us frightens me. Could this be part of the withdrawal? I realize that social contacts are 

vital in everyone's life. I'm afraid that my poor judgement on meds is what got us into this predicament. Is recovery possible without the support of friends?

  I'm 55 yrs. old and have had good friends years ago who I've lost contact with. They don't even know of my history with meds. This is a good example of the realities 

that I ruminate about. It's sure not a good time to meet new friends or connect with old ones during this withdrawal and covid19 to watch out for. I don't expect 

a reply to my rambling. Hope you are well.

Phenylbot


  • 1992-2020-Nardil altered between 45 and 60 mgs
  • March 2020 fast 1 month taper from 45 mg to zero
  • severe anxiety lack of motivation and catastrophizing
  • numbness in right shoulder
  • ruminating about past decisions
  • early waking , poor quality sleep
  • intrusive negative thoughts
  • 6.5 months med free with very slight improvement
  • October 2020 quite depressed

Share this post


Link to post
Gridley
6 hours ago, phenylbot said:

ne quarter of a tablet apx 3.5 milligrams is a reasonable start. 

If your last dose was 60mg, 3.5mg would be appropriate.  Please keep in mind that at 6 months out, it may not work.  If it makes you feel worse, stop immediately.  It takes around 4 days for the reinstatement dose to reach full strength in your blood stream and a few more days to register in the brain.

It's a good idea to keep daily notes on paper on how the reinstatement is doing.  

 

It can take months to stabilize then you can start a slow 10% taper down to zero. For that taper you'll need to be more exact that cutting tablets, perhaps by using a digital scale like the Gemini-20 scale, available on Amazon.  But we can deal with that when the time comes.

 

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

I'm very sorry about your spouse.  These are certainly hard times, but recovery is possible.  Please keep in mind that the purpose of reinstatement isn't to eliminate withdrawal symptoms completely (though it does for some) but rather to make withdrawal more tolerable.  


Gridley Introduction

 

Lexapro 20 mg since 2004.  Began taper using Brassmonkey slide Jan. 2017.   

End 2017 year 1 of taper at 9.25mg 

End 2018 year 2 of taper at 4.1mg

End 2019 year 3 of taper at 1.0mg  

Current from Oct. 21, 2020 at 0.025mg

Taper is 99.875% complete.

 

Lorazepam 1 mg 1986-1991 CT, resumed a few months later. CT 2000.  1 mg 2011-2016.  Sept, 2016 increased to 0.5 X 3 in split dose. Sept. 2019 increased to 0.625 X 3 after crossover to new brand

 

Imipramine 75 mg daily since 1986.  Jan. 2016 began every 3-weeks 10% taper, down to 15mg.  Aug 2016, discovered SA, updosed to 25mg and holding.  Taper is 66% complete.  

  

Supplements: omega, vitamins E and D3, magnesium glycinate, probiotic, melatonin .3mg


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice, but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

Share this post


Link to post
manymoretodays

Hi phenylbot and welcome,

Hey, I had wanted to stop by and say hi earlier, when I saw that you had come off Nardil.

That was really when a huge part of my journey began.

I had settled on that drug for somewhere around 10 years, and then decided to come on off, with doctors help, when the time was right.  And sheesh, no one ever even informed me of WD(withdrawal).  It was well documented, even then........  The time frame of WD was believed to be much more short term than what we believe now, however.

Did you ever have the dreaded reaction to tyramine?  I did.  I guess I was fortunate, as I had an antidote to my probable sky high BP, on hand to take.  However, I did not feel so fortunate.......it was intense and came with an excrutiating occipital headache.  I literally thought I might be a goner.......and just a young Mum at the time.

 

Anyway......mine was an abrupt 2 week taper and sometime around that time or shortly after all heck broke loose.  I didn't know either, back then, about WD, or the inanity of all these diagnonsense terms, around normal reactions to life.  Eh, now I do.  And it's taken time.......yet, healing is good for me.

 

I wound up overmedicated with everything under the sun, for awhile........and still no one mentioned WD.  What a crazy world.

 

Hey, when you get a chance would you:  Summarize your history in a signature for us

Are you on any other drugs?

 

Were you taking split doses of your 60 mg daily total, originally? 

 

And do start small, really low with your reinstatement, and then carefully observe, and keep some notes.  Try and give it a good week, to observe, with the 3.5 mg dose.  Keep us posted and updated too.    Even daily!

 

It looks like Gridley has gone over most of this with you really well.

 

Okay, my best intentions are with you, know that........it might help.  It is, truly best, to try reinstatement with the drug you came off of.  And so, I'm glad you have some around.  I would think that there must be some available somewhere too.  I just ran into an article by some doctor, who really endorses the MAOI's .........still.  They do a number, on multiple receptors.  Personally, I'm not a fan.

 

Welcome aboard again, the club or ship that you never really planned on joining or boarding.......it's a good one though!

L, P, H, and G,

moderator manymoretodays

 

 

 

Edited by manymoretodays

Started with psycho meds circa 1988 I think 27 or 28 total.

AD's, antpsychotics, antiseizure mood stabilizers. Lithium, lamictal ,benzos, and stimulants. Some med. for narcolepsy once(Provigil,) Gabapentin........probably more.  Ask me?......I probably was on it.  Haphazard W/D's by Dr. recommend or uneducated self.

10/2014- off Lexapro--had been on highest dose 10 mg. then 5 mg. for a couple of years, went from 5 mg. to 3 mg. liquid and then CT in hospital(voluntary).  I got out of the hospital on a combination of low dose adderal salts x1/day and trileptal 150mg. x2/day.

5/28/2015-off Adderal salts 2.5mg. (I had been on that since hospital 10/2014)

12/2015---just holding, holding, holding, with trileptal/oxcarb at 75 mg. 1/2 tab at hs.  My last psycho med ever!

 

3/21/2016---I did some unwise updosing of trileptal/oxcarbazepine with some stressful stuff......doubled the above dose x2 during this last wave but began liquifying again and on approximately 68mg. starting today.  11/12//2016 24 mg. oxcarbazepine  12/9/2016 off oxcarbazepine/trileptal!!!! :) optimistic  2016 December 9- completely off all medications!!!!!

Omega3's,EPA +DHA= 1800 mg/day. Magnesium complex, orally, diluted in a liter of H2O(that I can shake up.....it usually dissolves more completely as the water gets down to room temperature) and/or Epsom salt baths prn.   Vit. C, D3, and E.  B12, melatonin tapered to 1mg., and bioidentical hormones sublingually.  Trace mineral drops.  L-lysine.  L-methylfolate=400 mcg plus daily spinach. Totally ready for a good long window to hit soon and getting better strings of full days and partial days along the way.  Definite improvement overall since I first arrived on the SA survivor ship.  Herb and alcohol free since 5/15/2016.  None of my posts are intended as medical advice.  Please discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical provider. manymoretodays

 

Share this post


Link to post
phenylbot

Thanks for your interest "many more days". I tried reinstating 3.5 mg nardil but was unable to sleep. I came off after 2 days. 

I recently caught a nasty cold from my daughter and this seems to have sent me into a wave of depression. Is it possible that a bad cold 

could do this? I took an ibuprofen to help symptoms but felt it as kindling. It seems that I am now very sensitized to everything. 

   

  I do drink a lot of coffee and am a smoker so this probably doesn't help. it seems that I'm at a loss as to what to do next. Do I try the reinstatement

again and bear the insomnia, (it did take the edge off the depression) Should I wait for this cold to subside as it may be triggering the depression?

 

  Thirty years is an awfully long time to be on such a powerful drug as nardil. I use to take the full dose in the morning (60mg at once) The Pdoc said this would 

help subdue the insomnia. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

 

Thanks


  • 1992-2020-Nardil altered between 45 and 60 mgs
  • March 2020 fast 1 month taper from 45 mg to zero
  • severe anxiety lack of motivation and catastrophizing
  • numbness in right shoulder
  • ruminating about past decisions
  • early waking , poor quality sleep
  • intrusive negative thoughts
  • 6.5 months med free with very slight improvement
  • October 2020 quite depressed

Share this post


Link to post
manymoretodays

Hi phenybot!

 

Yes, of course.......and especially a nasty cold, could throw you off now.  I know, some of us wind up weirdly sensitized to a lot.  It's a good idea to go real easy, even with OTC(over the counter drugs).......instead of taking what you might have before, do a test of a small dose first.

 

I used to take mine, on arising and then at lunch time......the Nardil and don't recall much insomnia, but I had "scream dreams" sometimes,  I would wake us all up, after experiencing really scary dreams, screaming.  That was fun. 

 

Another option, I think you could try, would be liquifying some of your Nardil, and starting with an even lower dose, taking it first thing in the morning.

It does appear it's soluble in water:  https://go.drugbank.com/salts/DBSALT000954

Even just 1 mg might help.  How to make a liquid from tablets or capsules

You could make a 1 mg per 1 mL solution and then just take 1 mL.  Dissolve your tablet in the same amount of tepid water, as the dose in mg.

 

Unfortunately, we don't as yet have a tapering topic on Nardil.  Perhaps you and I can write one.  I did not make it beyond the first couple of weeks after my WD.  It was so long ago, but I'm guessing I dealt with some low, low feelings and almost sure that I skyrocketed into some nearly intolerable "anxiety" or just nervous system on fire.  Like, I said, I wound up royally re-medicated for years.  And I don't wish that on you.  We've had quite a few come through here, on Nardil, or who had been on it.  You can search in the top search box for Nardil, and some of the other introductions may come up.

 

We do have an extensive Symptoms and Self care forum, with all kinds of topics, to help you deal with some of the symptoms that you are experiencing.

Do you have someone to talk to, on a regular basis, who really listens and even might help you begin to practice or try stuff other than medicatons ?

 

Some of the insomnia, may just be WD too, it's pretty common around here.  If it started up with the reinstatement, it just may well have been due to that. 

Tips to help sleep: so many of us have that awful WD insomnia

 

 

On 10/4/2020 at 4:26 PM, Gridley said:

We don't recommend a lot of supplements on SA, as many members report being sensitive to them due to our over-reactive nervous systems, but two supplements that we do recommend are magnesium and omega 3 (fish oil). Many people find these to be calming to the nervous system. 

 

Magnesium, nature's calcium channel blocker 

 

Omega-3 fatty acids (fish oil) 

 

Add in one at a time and at a low dose in case you do experience problems.

 

I started with some Magnesium first and found it pretty darn calming, when I first arrived.

And now I take the Omega-3's too.

So there are those options too.

 

I can't think of anything else right now, but do keep on coming by with updates, and any further questions.

 

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

 

 


Started with psycho meds circa 1988 I think 27 or 28 total.

AD's, antpsychotics, antiseizure mood stabilizers. Lithium, lamictal ,benzos, and stimulants. Some med. for narcolepsy once(Provigil,) Gabapentin........probably more.  Ask me?......I probably was on it.  Haphazard W/D's by Dr. recommend or uneducated self.

10/2014- off Lexapro--had been on highest dose 10 mg. then 5 mg. for a couple of years, went from 5 mg. to 3 mg. liquid and then CT in hospital(voluntary).  I got out of the hospital on a combination of low dose adderal salts x1/day and trileptal 150mg. x2/day.

5/28/2015-off Adderal salts 2.5mg. (I had been on that since hospital 10/2014)

12/2015---just holding, holding, holding, with trileptal/oxcarb at 75 mg. 1/2 tab at hs.  My last psycho med ever!

 

3/21/2016---I did some unwise updosing of trileptal/oxcarbazepine with some stressful stuff......doubled the above dose x2 during this last wave but began liquifying again and on approximately 68mg. starting today.  11/12//2016 24 mg. oxcarbazepine  12/9/2016 off oxcarbazepine/trileptal!!!! :) optimistic  2016 December 9- completely off all medications!!!!!

Omega3's,EPA +DHA= 1800 mg/day. Magnesium complex, orally, diluted in a liter of H2O(that I can shake up.....it usually dissolves more completely as the water gets down to room temperature) and/or Epsom salt baths prn.   Vit. C, D3, and E.  B12, melatonin tapered to 1mg., and bioidentical hormones sublingually.  Trace mineral drops.  L-lysine.  L-methylfolate=400 mcg plus daily spinach. Totally ready for a good long window to hit soon and getting better strings of full days and partial days along the way.  Definite improvement overall since I first arrived on the SA survivor ship.  Herb and alcohol free since 5/15/2016.  None of my posts are intended as medical advice.  Please discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical provider. manymoretodays

 

Share this post


Link to post
phenylbot

After having tried reinstating @ 3.5 mg and being hit with insomnia; I've decided to stay off all prescribed meds. It's been 7 months of hell but somehow I've 

with it. I sleep about 5 or six hrs. a night and have been dealing with anhedonia, lack of motivation tingling arms, anxiety and depression. I believe that I developed

social anhedonia while still on nardil and wondering if this could be a side effect of psych meds.

  

  Not sure why, but the world seemed to suddenly become way more intimidating to me since this withdrawal syndrome began. The feeling of being detached from 

people is quite disturbing. 

 

Other than fear of kindling the reason I don't reinstate is that I've only been on this one med for the entire thirty years and at this point it seems to be a more linear 

approach to recovery. 

 

Most family and friends don't get what I'm going through and I don't blame them given the lack of the medical communities effort to promote awareness on the 

subject. Maybe someday ai will fill in the blanks. It is true that if someone has not experienced this nightmare first hand, they will not understand it at all. I'm 

thankful for all the people on here who have shared their stories and wish the best for everyone here. Don't give up. 


  • 1992-2020-Nardil altered between 45 and 60 mgs
  • March 2020 fast 1 month taper from 45 mg to zero
  • severe anxiety lack of motivation and catastrophizing
  • numbness in right shoulder
  • ruminating about past decisions
  • early waking , poor quality sleep
  • intrusive negative thoughts
  • 6.5 months med free with very slight improvement
  • October 2020 quite depressed

Share this post


Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Terms of Use Privacy Policy