Hellbutrin Posted December 22, 2017 Share Posted December 22, 2017 I've read many first hand accounts of individuals who have temporarily returned to acute symptoms after 4-6 months (this was certainly the case for me). I developed significant depressive symptoms and suicidal ideation at the beginning of November and it lasted through the beginning of December. I was wondering if anyone has accounts or links related to why this occurs at the 4-6month mark. I've also read that there seems to be regular set backs around month 12 for a lot of individuals, but that the most common set back is around 4-6- months. What does this mean for recovery? Any feedback is appreciated! Started Wellbutrin 75 mg IR the end of 2015. Tried quitting cold turkey in June 30th- July 3rd 2017. Had severe withdrawals. Was placed on Wellbutrin 100mg SR so I could taper without withdrawal. Stabilized on 100mg SR for most of the month of July. Started tapering on July 17th, 2017. Completed taper on August 8th, 2017. Currently experiencing severe withdrawal. Symptoms- Currently experiencing anhedonia, depersonalization/derealization, concentration/memory issues, chronic congestion, chronic dry eyes, dry skin, dislocated TMJ joint from teeth grinding during C/T withdrawal, waves of depression, anxiety, nausea, morning cortisol spikes, insomnia, agitation, food sensitivities, no tolerance for caffeine and chronic fatigue, burning muscle pain in upper and lower back and occasional tinninitus. Supplements- Omega-3 fish oil supplement twice daily, 100 mg of magnesium once daily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator brassmonkey Posted December 22, 2017 Moderator Share Posted December 22, 2017 It is commonly referred to as the 'ten month wave' and happens to most people after they have discontinued their medication. There actually are three different timings for this to happen. Six, ten and twelve months. Frequently it only happens at one of those time, but can happen at any or all of them. It usually is a very positive sign of healing with the following window being a very large improvement and the any subsequent waves being of lesser intensity. People who have done slow tapers tend to get off more easily, while for people who have fast tapered, CTed or jumped at too high of a dose, they can be pretty brutal. They can last anywhere from a week to several months. As to why it happens, it's like the rest of WD, we don't have a clue. In my case I got hit at about 8 months and it lasted just over two weeks. I will be interested to see what happens at 10 and 12 months. 1 20 years on Paxil starting at 20mg and working up to 40mg. Sept 2011 started 10% every 6 weeks taper (2.5% every week for 4 weeks then hold for 2 additional weeks), currently at 7.9mg. Oct 2011 CTed 15oz vodka a night, to only drinking 2 beers most nights, totally sober Feb 2013. Since I wrote this I have continued to decrease my dose by 10% every 6 weeks (2.5% every week for 4 weeks and then hold for an additional 2 weeks). I added in an extra 6 week hold when I hit 10mg to let things settle out even more. When I hit 3mgpw it became hard to split the drop into 4 parts so I switched to dropping 1mgpw (pill weight) every week for 3 weeks and then holding for another 3 weeks. The 3 + 3 schedule turned out to be too harsh so I cut back to dropping 1mgpw every 4 weeks which is working better. Final Dose 0.016mg. Current dose 0.000mg 04-15-2017 "It's also important not to become angry, no matter how difficult life is, because you can loose all hope if you can't laugh at yourself and at life in general." Stephen Hawking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellbutrin Posted December 22, 2017 Author Share Posted December 22, 2017 1 hour ago, brassmonkey said: It is commonly referred to as the 'ten month wave' and happens to most people after they have discontinued their medication. There actually are three different timings for this to happen. Six, ten and twelve months. Frequently it only happens at one of those time, but can happen at any or all of them. It usually is a very positive sign of healing with the following window being a very large improvement and the any subsequent waves being of lesser intensity. People who have done slow tapers tend to get off more easily, while for people who have fast tapered, CTed or jumped at too high of a dose, they can be pretty brutal. They can last anywhere from a week to several months. As to why it happens, it's like the rest of WD, we don't have a clue. In my case I got hit at about 8 months and it lasted just over two weeks. I will be interested to see what happens at 10 and 12 months. Hi Brassmonkey, Thank you so much for all of the information. Do you have links that you can share with me that have more information/reports of this occurring with others? I appreciate any feedback you can offer. Started Wellbutrin 75 mg IR the end of 2015. Tried quitting cold turkey in June 30th- July 3rd 2017. Had severe withdrawals. Was placed on Wellbutrin 100mg SR so I could taper without withdrawal. Stabilized on 100mg SR for most of the month of July. Started tapering on July 17th, 2017. Completed taper on August 8th, 2017. Currently experiencing severe withdrawal. Symptoms- Currently experiencing anhedonia, depersonalization/derealization, concentration/memory issues, chronic congestion, chronic dry eyes, dry skin, dislocated TMJ joint from teeth grinding during C/T withdrawal, waves of depression, anxiety, nausea, morning cortisol spikes, insomnia, agitation, food sensitivities, no tolerance for caffeine and chronic fatigue, burning muscle pain in upper and lower back and occasional tinninitus. Supplements- Omega-3 fish oil supplement twice daily, 100 mg of magnesium once daily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator brassmonkey Posted December 23, 2017 Moderator Share Posted December 23, 2017 There are no official studies on these subjects. All we have is what we've gleaned from working with thousands of members on this and other sites. Over time we are trying to pull it all together into one unified whole, but that is taking a lot of doing. The best bet is to read through all the threads you can and see what they are experiencing. There is a wealth of information here it just takes a little digging. 20 years on Paxil starting at 20mg and working up to 40mg. Sept 2011 started 10% every 6 weeks taper (2.5% every week for 4 weeks then hold for 2 additional weeks), currently at 7.9mg. Oct 2011 CTed 15oz vodka a night, to only drinking 2 beers most nights, totally sober Feb 2013. Since I wrote this I have continued to decrease my dose by 10% every 6 weeks (2.5% every week for 4 weeks and then hold for an additional 2 weeks). I added in an extra 6 week hold when I hit 10mg to let things settle out even more. When I hit 3mgpw it became hard to split the drop into 4 parts so I switched to dropping 1mgpw (pill weight) every week for 3 weeks and then holding for another 3 weeks. The 3 + 3 schedule turned out to be too harsh so I cut back to dropping 1mgpw every 4 weeks which is working better. Final Dose 0.016mg. Current dose 0.000mg 04-15-2017 "It's also important not to become angry, no matter how difficult life is, because you can loose all hope if you can't laugh at yourself and at life in general." Stephen Hawking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LexAnger Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 Great thread! Thank you Brassmonkey for the great information! As its so confusing and terrifying after you feel somewhat ok or better for the first few months after being off completely then suddenly all sxs ramp up in full force like never. i tapered for 4.5 years with some updose in the middle and been off since 09/23/2017. I felt a bit better in the first 2 + months before all the old sxs worsened significantly and new sxs added on (extreme neuro emotion, severe anxiety), I'm now 100 day off, have been in the most brutal WD physically, mentally and emotionally. Being very strong going through the very tough long taper, I still feel Im losing it all now and need urgent help for relief. i so hope it's true that this won't last long! I hope to hear from anyone that this is indeed a sign of healing and will be followed by significant improvement! thanks for sharing your thoughts and experience! lex Drug free Sep. 23 2017 2009 Mar.: lexapro 10mg for headache for 2 weeks. 2009-2012: on and off 1/4 to 1/3 of 10mg 2012 June--2013 Jan,: 1/4-1/3 of 10mg generic, bad jaw pain 2013 Jan-Mar: 10 mg generic. severe jaw and head pain; 2013 Mar--Aug. started tapering (liquid ever since) from 10 to 5 (one step) then gradually down to 2.25 mg by July. first ever panic attack, severe head/jaw pain 2013 Aug.: back to 2.75 mg; Nov: back to Brand Lex. 2.75mg -- 3mg, 2014 June: stopped PPI, head pressure/numbness. up-dosed 4.5mg, severe reaction mental symptoms added on 2014 Aug--2015 Aug: Micro taper down to 3.2mg, .025mg (<1%) cut holding 2-3 weeks. 2015 Aug 15th, Accidental one dose of 4.2mg. worsening brain non-functional, swollen head, body, coma like, DR 2016 Feb., started dosing 10am through 11 pm everyday 2/13--3.2mg, 3/15-- 2.9mg, 4/19-- 2.6mg, 6/26--2.2mg, 7/22 --1.9mg, 8/16--1.8mg，8/31--1.7m g, 9/13--1.6mg, 9/27--1.5mg, 10/8--1.4mg, 10/14--1.3mg， 11/1--1.2mg, 11/29--1.1mg, 12/12--1mg, 12/22--0.9mg 2017: 1/7--0.8mg, 1/15--0.7mg, 1/17--0.6mg, 1/20--0.52, 1/21--0.4mg, 1/22--0.26, 1/23--0.2, 2/13--0.13mg, 2/20--0.06mg, 3/18--0.13mg, 6/1--0.12mg, 7/6--0.1mg, 7/14--0.08mg, 8/17--0.04mg, 8/20--0.03mg, 8/28--0.02mg, 9/6--0.0205mg, 9/8--0.02mg, 9/17--0.015mg, 9/20--0.01mg, 9/21--0.0048mg, 9/22--0.0001mg, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Undiagnosed1 Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 My personal experience ( note I was not on long term ) 2 weeks after mirt cold turkey I got the " honeymoon" that lasted a month or so. I then fell into the depths of hell with si "black hole" depression along with horrible physical symptoms that lasted a couple of months. Then things seemed to lift some. At almost exactly 6 months I was slammed with the most intense anxiety, akathisia, sweating and si I could have possibly imagined. This lasted a month and I was unsure I was going to make it. If not for the love of my beautiful wife I may not have. I'm the poster child for doing things all wrong. I'm almost 11 months out from 15v mirt cold turkey. 5 months from 25mg trazodone cold turkey 2 months off coreg taper On my last 100 mg gabapentin Now for the positive I'm seeing some huge improvements Anxiety much better Depression minimal Si almost non existent Better appetite Showering daily " im happy about this"👍 Starting to work some A desire to try and get things done Spilt fire wood, repair cars, shovel east coast snow "yuk" I finally have hope which I had lost for a long time. Do I still have issues heck yeah but improvement is undeniable. december 25th 2016 gabapentin 900mg 1500mg increased january 5th 2017 between may and june decreased from 1500 mg to 700 mg december 25th 2016 remeron 15mg 2 week taper stopped febuary 26th withdrawal leveled out in may december 27th 2016 coreg 12.5mg x2 a day december 28th 2016 trazodone 100mg january 6th 75mg january 8th 50mg january 10th 25mg january 15th 37.5mg june 12th 25 mg hydroxyzine 25 mg prn colozopam .5 only taken .25 in two moths Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LexAnger Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 Thank you so much undiagnosed for sharing your positive healing process! cant believe these drugs can cause that much harm even after a very short use! i want to say you are so smart getting off these poisons quickly! I'm so happy for you seeing significant improvement! sending more healing vibes to your way! lex Drug free Sep. 23 2017 2009 Mar.: lexapro 10mg for headache for 2 weeks. 2009-2012: on and off 1/4 to 1/3 of 10mg 2012 June--2013 Jan,: 1/4-1/3 of 10mg generic, bad jaw pain 2013 Jan-Mar: 10 mg generic. severe jaw and head pain; 2013 Mar--Aug. started tapering (liquid ever since) from 10 to 5 (one step) then gradually down to 2.25 mg by July. first ever panic attack, severe head/jaw pain 2013 Aug.: back to 2.75 mg; Nov: back to Brand Lex. 2.75mg -- 3mg, 2014 June: stopped PPI, head pressure/numbness. up-dosed 4.5mg, severe reaction mental symptoms added on 2014 Aug--2015 Aug: Micro taper down to 3.2mg, .025mg (<1%) cut holding 2-3 weeks. 2015 Aug 15th, Accidental one dose of 4.2mg. worsening brain non-functional, swollen head, body, coma like, DR 2016 Feb., started dosing 10am through 11 pm everyday 2/13--3.2mg, 3/15-- 2.9mg, 4/19-- 2.6mg, 6/26--2.2mg, 7/22 --1.9mg, 8/16--1.8mg，8/31--1.7m g, 9/13--1.6mg, 9/27--1.5mg, 10/8--1.4mg, 10/14--1.3mg， 11/1--1.2mg, 11/29--1.1mg, 12/12--1mg, 12/22--0.9mg 2017: 1/7--0.8mg, 1/15--0.7mg, 1/17--0.6mg, 1/20--0.52, 1/21--0.4mg, 1/22--0.26, 1/23--0.2, 2/13--0.13mg, 2/20--0.06mg, 3/18--0.13mg, 6/1--0.12mg, 7/6--0.1mg, 7/14--0.08mg, 8/17--0.04mg, 8/20--0.03mg, 8/28--0.02mg, 9/6--0.0205mg, 9/8--0.02mg, 9/17--0.015mg, 9/20--0.01mg, 9/21--0.0048mg, 9/22--0.0001mg, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Undiagnosed1 Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 Lex I've read your story and followed you from a distance for quite sometime. All the while hoping I could be as strong as you have been throughout this process. It's sad that no matter cold turkey or slow taper we suffer. Only we understand the absolute horror of this process. I still question total healing and more lean towards the vast majority of the suffering ending and we become more tolerant and happy for that. Healing vibes for you as well madam december 25th 2016 gabapentin 900mg 1500mg increased january 5th 2017 between may and june decreased from 1500 mg to 700 mg december 25th 2016 remeron 15mg 2 week taper stopped febuary 26th withdrawal leveled out in may december 27th 2016 coreg 12.5mg x2 a day december 28th 2016 trazodone 100mg january 6th 75mg january 8th 50mg january 10th 25mg january 15th 37.5mg june 12th 25 mg hydroxyzine 25 mg prn colozopam .5 only taken .25 in two moths Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry4949 Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 I was c/t in March of several meds so it’s 10 months now after 2 months my mood was better but still had a lot o physical anguish then at 6 months I descended into a pit of despair suicidel depression and. Everything that I was suffering became 10 fold this lifted after 6 weeks and I could at least function eat properly got a little more sleep even managed a little work , now at 10 months I have crashed in to that pit again but even worse than before , deep dark depression , apathy anhendonia waking at 2 am body filled with fear cortisol and adrenaline overload , tremors and chronic fatigue , I feel hopeless but I am hoping that I can get to twelve months and it may lift like it did at 6 months I am hoping that these 2 waves maybe the worst . I just need to find the strength to get to twelve months as I have just got my head above water at the moment . I hope we all find that relief that we deserve 2001 to jan 2015 Effexor 150 mg jan 2015 15 mg mirtazapine 20 mg quetiapine feb 2015 quetiapine stopped feb 2015 30 mg of citalopram added feb 2015 mirtazapine increased to 30 mg july 2015 citalopram stopped sept 2015 200mg of pregabalin jan 2017 mirtazapine stopped jan 2017 20 mg fluoxetine march 2017 all meds stopped Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Altostrata Posted January 11, 2018 Administrator Share Posted January 11, 2018 I sure hope it works as brassmonkey speculates: On 12/22/2017 at 12:33 PM, brassmonkey said: It is commonly referred to as the 'ten month wave' and happens to most people after they have discontinued their medication. There actually are three different timings for this to happen. Six, ten and twelve months. Frequently it only happens at one of those time, but can happen at any or all of them. It usually is a very positive sign of healing with the following window being a very large improvement and the any subsequent waves being of lesser intensity. People who have done slow tapers tend to get off more easily, while for people who have fast tapered, CTed or jumped at too high of a dose, they can be pretty brutal. They can last anywhere from a week to several months. As to why it happens, it's like the rest of WD, we don't have a clue. In my case I got hit at about 8 months and it lasted just over two weeks. I will be interested to see what happens at 10 and 12 months. For what it's worth, I do not believe we can say recovery from withdrawal takes place in stages of x number of months or that there is any pattern of post-discontinuation symptom severity after 6 months or 10 months or any number of months. What happens is that people go along feeling fairly stable and not knowing their nervous system have become hypersensitive, but then do something, such as take an antibiotic, have some drinks, or undergo a stressful life event which destabilizes them for a time. It's also true that when the nervous system is presented with a challenge -- but not too great of a challenge! -- it can become stronger and more stable. There also might be a cumulative effect of what were little withdrawal symptoms that were overlooked coalescing into a more noticeable pattern. I think this is very common -- people go off drugs, experience relatively minor symptoms at first, figure that will last only a few weeks, and then, as the symptoms change and become more serious, blame them on the flu, life stress, etc. for a while. It's only when the symptoms become unmistakably severe and not-normal that they begin looking for the reason. This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LexAnger Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 Thank you so much undiagnosed for reading my thread! I know it's hard especially when we are in too much agony and pain for so long without a sign of improvement, but please don't lose hope. Hope is the only thing carries us to the end of this horredous lengthy battle. When I am in total despair I would read the success stories again and again and they keeps me continue fighting! we just go one day at a step and keep going like that. There will be an end as long as we don't giving in to these poisons. Also remember you are not alone and we are all walking together. hugs, lex Drug free Sep. 23 2017 2009 Mar.: lexapro 10mg for headache for 2 weeks. 2009-2012: on and off 1/4 to 1/3 of 10mg 2012 June--2013 Jan,: 1/4-1/3 of 10mg generic, bad jaw pain 2013 Jan-Mar: 10 mg generic. severe jaw and head pain; 2013 Mar--Aug. started tapering (liquid ever since) from 10 to 5 (one step) then gradually down to 2.25 mg by July. first ever panic attack, severe head/jaw pain 2013 Aug.: back to 2.75 mg; Nov: back to Brand Lex. 2.75mg -- 3mg, 2014 June: stopped PPI, head pressure/numbness. up-dosed 4.5mg, severe reaction mental symptoms added on 2014 Aug--2015 Aug: Micro taper down to 3.2mg, .025mg (<1%) cut holding 2-3 weeks. 2015 Aug 15th, Accidental one dose of 4.2mg. worsening brain non-functional, swollen head, body, coma like, DR 2016 Feb., started dosing 10am through 11 pm everyday 2/13--3.2mg, 3/15-- 2.9mg, 4/19-- 2.6mg, 6/26--2.2mg, 7/22 --1.9mg, 8/16--1.8mg，8/31--1.7m g, 9/13--1.6mg, 9/27--1.5mg, 10/8--1.4mg, 10/14--1.3mg， 11/1--1.2mg, 11/29--1.1mg, 12/12--1mg, 12/22--0.9mg 2017: 1/7--0.8mg, 1/15--0.7mg, 1/17--0.6mg, 1/20--0.52, 1/21--0.4mg, 1/22--0.26, 1/23--0.2, 2/13--0.13mg, 2/20--0.06mg, 3/18--0.13mg, 6/1--0.12mg, 7/6--0.1mg, 7/14--0.08mg, 8/17--0.04mg, 8/20--0.03mg, 8/28--0.02mg, 9/6--0.0205mg, 9/8--0.02mg, 9/17--0.015mg, 9/20--0.01mg, 9/21--0.0048mg, 9/22--0.0001mg, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LexAnger Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 Thank you terry for sharing your experience! Congratulation to you for being off the meds for 10 months! Be proud of yourself for winning the battle of being free of these most dangerous substances! You are so close to the turning point! And believe you will see that big improvement any day! Drug free Sep. 23 2017 2009 Mar.: lexapro 10mg for headache for 2 weeks. 2009-2012: on and off 1/4 to 1/3 of 10mg 2012 June--2013 Jan,: 1/4-1/3 of 10mg generic, bad jaw pain 2013 Jan-Mar: 10 mg generic. severe jaw and head pain; 2013 Mar--Aug. started tapering (liquid ever since) from 10 to 5 (one step) then gradually down to 2.25 mg by July. first ever panic attack, severe head/jaw pain 2013 Aug.: back to 2.75 mg; Nov: back to Brand Lex. 2.75mg -- 3mg, 2014 June: stopped PPI, head pressure/numbness. up-dosed 4.5mg, severe reaction mental symptoms added on 2014 Aug--2015 Aug: Micro taper down to 3.2mg, .025mg (<1%) cut holding 2-3 weeks. 2015 Aug 15th, Accidental one dose of 4.2mg. worsening brain non-functional, swollen head, body, coma like, DR 2016 Feb., started dosing 10am through 11 pm everyday 2/13--3.2mg, 3/15-- 2.9mg, 4/19-- 2.6mg, 6/26--2.2mg, 7/22 --1.9mg, 8/16--1.8mg，8/31--1.7m g, 9/13--1.6mg, 9/27--1.5mg, 10/8--1.4mg, 10/14--1.3mg， 11/1--1.2mg, 11/29--1.1mg, 12/12--1mg, 12/22--0.9mg 2017: 1/7--0.8mg, 1/15--0.7mg, 1/17--0.6mg, 1/20--0.52, 1/21--0.4mg, 1/22--0.26, 1/23--0.2, 2/13--0.13mg, 2/20--0.06mg, 3/18--0.13mg, 6/1--0.12mg, 7/6--0.1mg, 7/14--0.08mg, 8/17--0.04mg, 8/20--0.03mg, 8/28--0.02mg, 9/6--0.0205mg, 9/8--0.02mg, 9/17--0.015mg, 9/20--0.01mg, 9/21--0.0048mg, 9/22--0.0001mg, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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