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Nnaa: Paxil / paroxetine for far too long


Nnaa

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Hello. Getting started here with an intro as I prepare to start to taper from paroxetine after far too many years stuck on it. Grateful for this site / forum and write this in solidarity with everyone who's been on / going through this kind of journey.
 
1996/7 first tried fluoxetine and citalopram for depression/anxiety in my teens but stopped very quickly. I don't recall exactly why, though I know one of them gave me a skin rash and I don't think I stayed on either for long enough to notice any benefits.
 
1999 finally went on paroxetine, I think 20mg at first. Going on was awful (many physical effects such as upset stomach and pretty much everything listed on the leaflet at the time - which I had deliberately not read but ended up reading while bed-ridden) but felt I had no better options at the time, and there's no denying that it helped reduce my anxiety and allowed me to progress with my life.
 
Having said that, I was never keen to stay on and the side effects sucked (skin itching, sexual dysfunction, crazy nightmares, chest pain) but my early withdrawal attempts all crashed and burned. Longest taper over 5 months back in 2005 was scariest experience of my life once I got really low and went from a tiny amount of powder to nothing for 3 days. I had intense crying spells, light/shade effects, dizziness, brain zaps, trouble even speaking, tiredness, stomach upsets, high anxiety and anhedonia. Reinstated after reading a Paxil Progress thread and realising I could end up with protracted withdrawal syndrome otherwise.
 
Had to get on with my life and pretty much resigned to being stuck on it forever. As a 'compromise', have tried to keep the dose as low as possible. For about a year I got by on 5mg every other day, but this was not good: felt like I was barely saving off withdrawal syndrome and my old anxiety returned. Managed on 5mg daily for another few years till the same thing happened.
 
Been on 10mg /day since 2013 but since 2018 I've been noticing numerous signs that I'm now becoming tolerant to this dose: experiencing diminished 'benefit', but more side effects (including new ones such as tinnitus and insane night sweats), plus WD effects starting if I'm ever more than about 8 hours late.
 
Staying on 10mg doesn't seem like a sustainable solution as the tolerance will just get worse over time, so the options seem to be two extremes: stay on this treadmill of ever-increasing doses or try and taper off.
 
Both are terrifying but I know it has to be the latter. If I don't try now while I'm still relatively young and healthy, I'll just be storing up problems for later in life when I'll be less able to cope: the idea of being old and frail, on a max dose that's worn off is just unthinkable.
 
My GP is ok with me tapering now: has said to take as-needs valium (Diazepam) during slow taper but am scared of adding a benzodiazepine to the mix, especially after hearing some of the Mad in America podcasts from World Benzodiazepine Awareness Day. Also very scared that normal life will become impossible so stalling at this point and just reading as much as possible in the hope of preparing myself for success this time, even if it takes years. 
 
  • Paroxetine Taper from 10mg | 29 Oct 2020 9mg | 29 Nov 2020 8.1mg | 1 Jan 2021 7.5mg | Using DIY liquid so far (converting 1:1 mg to mL). Taking ~40mg tablet of magnesium a day since Nov 2020 (1/4 150mg tablet).
  • Paroxetine (Aropax / Seroxat / Paxil) since 1999, varying between 20mg and 5mg/day. Several failed attempts to WD. Was on 10mg/day 2013-2020 before starting taper.
  • 2020 prescribed valium (Diazepam) to take 'as needed' in support of paroxetine taper, but never taken and no longer think this is a good idea.
  • My introduction topic


Even if they’re a crowd of sorrows, who violently sweep your house empty of its furniture, still treat each guest honourably. He may be clearing you out for some new delight. –Rumi

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  • ChessieCat changed the title to Nnaa: Paxil / paroxetine for far too long
  • Moderator

Welcome to SA, Nana.  It's great that you came here before starting your taper so that you can be well-prepared. 

 

Preparing to taper

 

Tolerance to the drug is known as tachyphylaxis or "poop-out."

 

Tachyphylaxis, Reaching Tolerance or as It's Lovingly Known “Poop-Out”

 

Brassmonkey, one of our moderators, successfully tapered off 40mg of Paxil during poop-out. You can take a look at his story here.

 

Link to BrassMonkey's success story

 

Getting down to the mechanics of tapering, we recommend tapering by no more than 10% of your current dose every four weeks.  Your first drop would be from from 10mg to 9mg (you multiply the previous dose by 0.9 to get 10%).  Then hold for 4 weeks.  If you're doing well, you would drop from 9 to 8.1 , etc.  There will be information later about how to get the nonstandard doses you'll need for the taper.  Some people need to taper merely slowly than 10%, such as 5% every four weeks.  It's all individual.

 

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

An alternate and somewhat gentler method is the Brassmonkey slide taper, which, instead of one monthly reduction,  consists of four weekly 2 1/2% reductions followed by a 2-week hold to let the changes in dosage settle in.  I used this for my Lexapro taper.

 

The Brassmonkey Slide Method of Micro-tapering

 

The following link is specifically about tapering Paroxetine, including how to get nonstandard doses needed for the taper.  There are several methods.

First, check to see if liquid Paroxetine is available in Australia.  Many regard this as the easiest way to taper. Another method is to make your own liquid.

Another is to use a compounding pharmacy to make your doses.  Finally, you could weigh powder made from your tablets using the Gemini-20 scale available on Amazon.  All these methods are discussed in the link.

 

Tips for tapering off paroxetine (Paxil, Seroxat)

 

I'd be very careful with the Diazepam.  You can become physiologically dependent after two to four weeks of regular use and also from intermittent use.

Then you'd have another drug to taper off.

 

We don't recommend a lot of supplements on SA, as many members report being sensitive to them due to our over-reactive nervous systems, but two supplements that we do recommend are magnesium and omega 3 (fish oil). Many people find these to be calming to the nervous system. 

 

Magnesium, nature's calcium channel blocker 

 

Omega-3 fatty acids (fish oil) 

 

Add in one at a time and at a low dose in case you do experience problems.

 

This is your Introduction topic, where you can ask questions and connect with other members.  We're glad you found your way here and we're happy to help you with your Paroxetine taper.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Gridley Introduction

 

Lexapro 20 mg since 2004.  Begin Brassmonkey Slide Taper Jan. 2017.   

End 2017 year 1 of taper at 9.25mg 

End 2018 year 2 of taper at 4.1mg

End 2019 year 3 of taper at 1.0mg  

Oct. 30, 2020  Jump to zero from 0.025mg.  Current dose: 0.000mg

3 year, 10 month taper is 100% complete.

 

Ativan 1 mg 1986-1991 CT, soon reinstated.  CT 2000. RI 1 mg 2011-2016.  Sept. 2016  0.625mg X 3

Nov.27, 2020 Begin 7-week Ativan-Valium crossover and change from 3 daily doses to one 18.75mgai dose (0.311mgpw). Jan. 11, 2021 begin hold at current bedtime 18.75mgai dose.

 

Imipramine 75 mg daily since 1986.  Jan. 2016 began every 3-weeks 10% taper, down to 16mgai (0.44mgpw).  Aug 2016, discovered SA, holding at 16mg.  Taper is 78% complete.  

  

Supplements: omega, vitamins E and D3, magnesium glycinate, probiotic, melatonin .3mg


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice, but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

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Gridley: thank you so much. This is already more help than I've received from any health professional, ever. You've covered all my questions and more. Will start reading all those links to start making a plan. So grateful to you and everyone on this forum. 

 

 

  • Paroxetine Taper from 10mg | 29 Oct 2020 9mg | 29 Nov 2020 8.1mg | 1 Jan 2021 7.5mg | Using DIY liquid so far (converting 1:1 mg to mL). Taking ~40mg tablet of magnesium a day since Nov 2020 (1/4 150mg tablet).
  • Paroxetine (Aropax / Seroxat / Paxil) since 1999, varying between 20mg and 5mg/day. Several failed attempts to WD. Was on 10mg/day 2013-2020 before starting taper.
  • 2020 prescribed valium (Diazepam) to take 'as needed' in support of paroxetine taper, but never taken and no longer think this is a good idea.
  • My introduction topic


Even if they’re a crowd of sorrows, who violently sweep your house empty of its furniture, still treat each guest honourably. He may be clearing you out for some new delight. –Rumi

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  • Moderator Emeritus

  

7 hours ago, Nnaa said:

Sorry if there are threads with detail but my search hasn't turned up any specific topics with much detail.

 

There are many existing topics on this site.  Sometimes it can be hard to find a specific topic.  I find that it is better to use a search engine and add site: survivingantidepressants.org to my search term.

NEW!!!     INTERVIEW with Altostrata, SA's founder    NEW!!! 

 

REMINDER TO SELF:  I don't need the drug now, but my still brain does.

Current from 9 Jan 2021:  Pristiq 0.405 mg

ADs since ~1992:  25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering Oct 2015 

My tapering program   My Intro (goes to my tapering graph)  My website

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions.

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  • Mentor

Welcome Nnaa!

 

I'm impressed with Your realization of:  "If I don't try now while I'm still relatively young and healthy, I'll just be storing up problems for later in life when I'll be less able to cope: the idea of being old and frail, on a max dose that's worn off is just unthinkable."

 

It's not just that being older makes you less resilient, it's all the other "what ifs" that can unfortunately come into play when we procrastinate.

 

I was on Paxil about 25 years before I started to taper and I'm 3 months shy of 6 years and still at it, but it's been delayed and complicated by cancer and those treatments, perimenopause and menopause and a host of other life altering injuries that require other full time medications that interact with your brain functions.  All things that could have been avoided if I had started this 20 years younger than I did.  But I was one of the unfortunate's that got fed the lie that the withdrawal symptoms were a sign of actual illness and by the time I learned otherwise all those other issues complicated my journey.  And age is like anything else, you don't realize  how things interact and sneak up on You when you live with them every day! 🙂 

 

Glad you found us, feel free to message me any time if you'd like or tag me here in your thread!

Paxil: 12/24/18 0.8mg, 3/24/19 0.64 mg,(syringe change issue date?) 4/22/19 0.60 mg, 5/24/19 0.60 mg, 7/7/19 0.52 mgs, 8/4/19 0.44mgs, 11/4/19 0.36mgs, 2/1/20 0.28mgs, 3/1/20 0.24mgs (crash April 6)

 

 

 

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Thank you so much, Colonial. I'm sorry to hear of everything you've been through, but very inspired to see you persisting through thick and thin. I have a feeling this site is going to be the main place I get my strength through what's to come.

  • Paroxetine Taper from 10mg | 29 Oct 2020 9mg | 29 Nov 2020 8.1mg | 1 Jan 2021 7.5mg | Using DIY liquid so far (converting 1:1 mg to mL). Taking ~40mg tablet of magnesium a day since Nov 2020 (1/4 150mg tablet).
  • Paroxetine (Aropax / Seroxat / Paxil) since 1999, varying between 20mg and 5mg/day. Several failed attempts to WD. Was on 10mg/day 2013-2020 before starting taper.
  • 2020 prescribed valium (Diazepam) to take 'as needed' in support of paroxetine taper, but never taken and no longer think this is a good idea.
  • My introduction topic


Even if they’re a crowd of sorrows, who violently sweep your house empty of its furniture, still treat each guest honourably. He may be clearing you out for some new delight. –Rumi

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  • 3 weeks later...

Note to self (and added to my signature too):

 

Reduced from 10mg to 8 or 9mg a day starting on 29 Oct 2020. It's not precise because am shaving a small amount of each half-tablet with a pill cutter but am aiming for 10%.

 

I've been ok(ish) for several years in the past on 5mg/day so think it'll probably be ok if I'm not completely precise until then, as long as I go slowly as advised. 

 

Once I'm ready to try taking 10% off 5m, I'll ask my GP for 10mg tablets (rather than the 20mg ones that I get at the moment) or, look into liquid options.

 

Holding for 28 days on this 8-9mg dose for now: next review will be on Thurs 26 Nov.

  • Paroxetine Taper from 10mg | 29 Oct 2020 9mg | 29 Nov 2020 8.1mg | 1 Jan 2021 7.5mg | Using DIY liquid so far (converting 1:1 mg to mL). Taking ~40mg tablet of magnesium a day since Nov 2020 (1/4 150mg tablet).
  • Paroxetine (Aropax / Seroxat / Paxil) since 1999, varying between 20mg and 5mg/day. Several failed attempts to WD. Was on 10mg/day 2013-2020 before starting taper.
  • 2020 prescribed valium (Diazepam) to take 'as needed' in support of paroxetine taper, but never taken and no longer think this is a good idea.
  • My introduction topic


Even if they’re a crowd of sorrows, who violently sweep your house empty of its furniture, still treat each guest honourably. He may be clearing you out for some new delight. –Rumi

Link to post
  • Moderator

Hello Nnaa,

 

4 hours ago, Nnaa said:

Reduced from 10mg to 8 or 9mg a day starting on 29 Oct 2020. It's not precise because am shaving a small amount of each half-tablet with a pill cutter but am aiming for 10%.

 

I've been ok(ish) for several years in the past on 5mg/day so think it'll probably be ok if I'm not completely precise until then

 

Unfortunately, it seems that we can't postulate that what was ok for our CNS in the past is still ok in the present.

 

I would advise to make precise doses. I don't know for sure but I think that Paroxetine is soluble in water, please check this info  in

 

 

 

 

Take care ☀️

2006 : 20mg Paroxetine + Bromazepam(no specific dose) (2008 : cold turkey of both)

2010 : 20mg Deroxat + Bromazepam

2013: Switch from Bromazepam To Prazepam (longer half-life)

2014-June2017 : Prazepam taper, 3% drops. 

2018 to August 2019 : Paroxetine 20mg taper (3% every 15 days).

- 22nd August updosed To 10mg (was at 8.4mg)

25th Sept 2019 To April 2020 : found SA, holding at 10mg Paroxetine. 

April 2020-August 2020 : Paxil to Prozac bridge. Details https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/21457-erell-struggling-with-paroxetine/?do=findComment&comment=499847

 

Current Supplements : magnesium citrate/ fish oil/ evening primrose oil 

Current medication :  7mg Fluoxetine + toothpick Paroxetine (since 20 Aug 2020) + 1mg Diazepam (since 29 Aug 2020)

 

Website : https://selibererdelapsychiatrie.wordpress.com/

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  • Mentor

Hi Nnaa!

 

Perhaps the Paxil liquid is available in your area?

If not, perhaps you could get the 10mg pills now instead of waiting until later?

That would make it easier in getting correct weights.

 

Erell is correct about needing correct dosages with Paxil.

Below 10mg Paxil can give very bad symptoms if dropping too high of a percentage, or incorrect dosages back and forth each day.

If you can't get the liquid which is super easy or the 10mg pills which would make it easier to get a correct dose of 9mg, the link above is good!

 

Paxil: 12/24/18 0.8mg, 3/24/19 0.64 mg,(syringe change issue date?) 4/22/19 0.60 mg, 5/24/19 0.60 mg, 7/7/19 0.52 mgs, 8/4/19 0.44mgs, 11/4/19 0.36mgs, 2/1/20 0.28mgs, 3/1/20 0.24mgs (crash April 6)

 

 

 

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  • Administrator

Hello, Nnaa.

 

You might be able to get away with imprecise dosing for a while, but you've already found that inconsistent dosing causes withdrawal symptoms. Many people have a lot of trouble going off Paxil when they reach 5mg and lower.

 

Have you also occasionally forgotten to take a dose, or taken it very much off-schedule? That might have caused your "poop out".

 

Paxil in particular is unforgiving of these dosing errors. Your history of inconsistent dosing might already have set you up for more severe withdrawal symptoms. Your nervous system keeps the score of those bruises.

 

We are cautioning you now about being consistent in your dosing and dose schedule because we've seen that inconsistent dosing causes unpleasant symptoms. We would rather you be more precise in your dosing now.

 

If you got Paxil liquid, you could take half your dose in tablet form and taper from the other half in liquid form. Measuring liquid with an oral syringe is a lot easier than dry-cutting with any precision, which requires using a digital scale.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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Thanks so much Erell, Colonial and Altostrata: I will heed your wise and kind advice. It's pretty scary to think that imprecision in the past could have already had a negative effect. I never realised this. Am starting to research my options now and will note back with where I get to. I thought I was going to be relatively 'safe' until 5mg as long as I do it slowly but will bear all the above in mind and ensure precision from here on. Thanks again.

  • Paroxetine Taper from 10mg | 29 Oct 2020 9mg | 29 Nov 2020 8.1mg | 1 Jan 2021 7.5mg | Using DIY liquid so far (converting 1:1 mg to mL). Taking ~40mg tablet of magnesium a day since Nov 2020 (1/4 150mg tablet).
  • Paroxetine (Aropax / Seroxat / Paxil) since 1999, varying between 20mg and 5mg/day. Several failed attempts to WD. Was on 10mg/day 2013-2020 before starting taper.
  • 2020 prescribed valium (Diazepam) to take 'as needed' in support of paroxetine taper, but never taken and no longer think this is a good idea.
  • My introduction topic


Even if they’re a crowd of sorrows, who violently sweep your house empty of its furniture, still treat each guest honourably. He may be clearing you out for some new delight. –Rumi

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I've sent off some enquiries to compounding pharmacies. One has replied indicating that it  can be done but would cost almost $50 a month. I'll see what the others say.
 
Am thinking, after reading the DIY liquid details here, that I'll start that way for the earlier phases. I've taken note that it's wise to switch from tablet to liquid over a few days by doing a bit of each as well, so will do.
 
I've also worked out to 2 decimal places what the 10% reductions would involve and made a note of this for myself below. I realise showing these by calendar month isn't exactly 28 days but it's quite likely I'll hold the lower doses for longer than that anyway, so this is just for convenience, with timeframes and % reductions kept under continual review.
 
In terms of measuring it out: 
 
On 7/27/2012 at 11:44 AM, Altostrata said:

You could put a 10mg Paxil tablet in 10mL water for a 1:1 dilution. There would be 1mg in 1mL and 0.1mg in 0.1mL. The 1:1 dilution would require a small 1mL oral syringe. To reduce 10% from 1.1mg, you would take 1mL. Another 10% reduction would be 0.9mL.

 

^This (from the DIY liquid thread) is really helpful for what I'm looking at doing and a 1mL oral syringe seems like a fairly foolproof way to go - important for me as I am BAD at maths. 

Am not sure how I would proceed once the increments get below 0.01mL (which will be the smallest notch on the syringe). I know that going from a tiny amount to stopping is a big deal and see some people get way lower than this, so I suppose the way forward at that stage would be to dilute to a higher level.

 

Anyway, I realise that's a long way off at this point, so will cross that bridge when I (hopefully) come to it. I will probably resort to a compounding pharmacy once I get below 5mg/day anyway.

 

- - - - Putative 10% reductions 'schedule' - - - - 

This assumes using the 1mL syringe with a 1:1 dilution of a 10mg pill as noted above
image.png.657b1bb3bff7f620499b265654f45b79.png
2020
  • November: 9.00mg/day     |     i.e. 9 full syringes
  • December: 8.10mg/day     |     i.e 8 full syringes plus one 0.1mL 'notch'
2021
  • January: 7.29mg/day         |     i.e 7 syringes + 2.9 notches
  • February: 6.56mg/day
  • March: 5.90mg/day
  • April 5.30mg/day
  • May 4.78mg/day
  • June 4.3mg/day
  • July 3.87mg/day
  • August 3.49mg/day
  • September 3.14mg/day
  • October 2.82mg/day
  • November 2.54mg/day
  • December 2.29mg/day
2022
  • January 2.06mg/day
  • February 1.85mg/day
  • March 1.67mg/day
  • April 1.50mg/day
  • May 1.35mg/day
  • June 1.22mg/day
  • July 1.09mg/day
  • August 0.98mg/day
  • September 0.88mg/day
  • October 0.80mg/day
  • November 0.72mg/day
  • December 0.65mg/day
2023 mg/day
  • January 0.58
  • February 0.34
  • March 0.30
  • April 0.27
  • May 0.25
  • June 0.22
  • July 0.20
  • August 0.18
  • September 0.16
  • October 0.15
  • November 0.13 
  • December 0.12

2024 mg/day

 

- from here to be really accurate would need more decimal places but just as one possibility...

  • January 0.11
  • February 0.10 
  • March 0.09
  • April 0.08
  • May 0.07
  • June 0.06
  • July 0.05
  • August 0.04
  • September 0.03
  • October 0.02
  • November 0.01
  • December 0.00 ???
  • Paroxetine Taper from 10mg | 29 Oct 2020 9mg | 29 Nov 2020 8.1mg | 1 Jan 2021 7.5mg | Using DIY liquid so far (converting 1:1 mg to mL). Taking ~40mg tablet of magnesium a day since Nov 2020 (1/4 150mg tablet).
  • Paroxetine (Aropax / Seroxat / Paxil) since 1999, varying between 20mg and 5mg/day. Several failed attempts to WD. Was on 10mg/day 2013-2020 before starting taper.
  • 2020 prescribed valium (Diazepam) to take 'as needed' in support of paroxetine taper, but never taken and no longer think this is a good idea.
  • My introduction topic


Even if they’re a crowd of sorrows, who violently sweep your house empty of its furniture, still treat each guest honourably. He may be clearing you out for some new delight. –Rumi

Link to post
  • Moderator Emeritus
22 minutes ago, Nnaa said:
2020
  • November: 9.00mg/day     |     i.e. 9 full syringes

 

If you are putting 10mg tablet into 10mL water it would be easier as well as more accurate to extract 1mL (ie one syringe) and dispose of it and drink the rest.

 

Remember to always do it the same way every time.

Edited by ChessieCat

NEW!!!     INTERVIEW with Altostrata, SA's founder    NEW!!! 

 

REMINDER TO SELF:  I don't need the drug now, but my still brain does.

Current from 9 Jan 2021:  Pristiq 0.405 mg

ADs since ~1992:  25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering Oct 2015 

My tapering program   My Intro (goes to my tapering graph)  My website

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions.

Link to post
  • Moderator Emeritus

I've recently had to start using some liquid as part of my taper.  I bought 1mL, 3mL, 5mL and 10mL syringes and a graduated cylinder.  I've also just purchased a 5mL baby eye dropper to top up the graduated cylinder to the line I need because it is difficult to top it up by pouring extra in.

NEW!!!     INTERVIEW with Altostrata, SA's founder    NEW!!! 

 

REMINDER TO SELF:  I don't need the drug now, but my still brain does.

Current from 9 Jan 2021:  Pristiq 0.405 mg

ADs since ~1992:  25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering Oct 2015 

My tapering program   My Intro (goes to my tapering graph)  My website

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions.

Link to post
  • Mentor
9 hours ago, Nnaa said:

Am not sure how I would proceed once the increments get below 0.01mL (which will be the smallest notch on the syringe)

 

Hello Friend! 🙂

 

Smaller volume syringes are available, there is the 0.5 ml, so once you get to the point of only consuming 10 lines of the syringe you can switch to the 0.5 ml, which would be equal to 20 lines on that syringe.  I used the 1mg syringe until, I believe down to the 8th line from the bottom, since dropping to 7 was too high of a percentage.  So switching to the 0.5ml syringe, those 8 lines now equaled 16 lines, which helped me continue to make smaller % drops for another good year, which is really worth it once you have your system down.  Of course, depending on your syringe, you MAY also end up getting a little bit extra out of the syringe bottom as I do, but as long as that remains constant with each drop, your percentage drops will keep any big discrepancies from causing you trouble.

 

Like everything else in the medical supply department their prices have gone up a bit this year, but in August I purchased 10 more of them off Amazon for $8.18, and each one I can use for a few months since this type doesn't have a rubber plunger at the bottom it's all plastic, so I just rinse them well with hot water and their fine to reuse for a good stretch. I'm still using the first one out of that delivery 2 times a day since the end of August.

Paxil: 12/24/18 0.8mg, 3/24/19 0.64 mg,(syringe change issue date?) 4/22/19 0.60 mg, 5/24/19 0.60 mg, 7/7/19 0.52 mgs, 8/4/19 0.44mgs, 11/4/19 0.36mgs, 2/1/20 0.28mgs, 3/1/20 0.24mgs (crash April 6)

 

 

 

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Thank you for the tips @ChessieCat and @Colonial. All makes sense and good to know about the 0.5mL syringe option for later down the track.

  • Paroxetine Taper from 10mg | 29 Oct 2020 9mg | 29 Nov 2020 8.1mg | 1 Jan 2021 7.5mg | Using DIY liquid so far (converting 1:1 mg to mL). Taking ~40mg tablet of magnesium a day since Nov 2020 (1/4 150mg tablet).
  • Paroxetine (Aropax / Seroxat / Paxil) since 1999, varying between 20mg and 5mg/day. Several failed attempts to WD. Was on 10mg/day 2013-2020 before starting taper.
  • 2020 prescribed valium (Diazepam) to take 'as needed' in support of paroxetine taper, but never taken and no longer think this is a good idea.
  • My introduction topic


Even if they’re a crowd of sorrows, who violently sweep your house empty of its furniture, still treat each guest honourably. He may be clearing you out for some new delight. –Rumi

Link to post
  • Moderator Emeritus

I've put clear tape around mine so that the numbers do not wear off as quickly.  I have only been using them for 2 weeks so I don't know how long they will last.

NEW!!!     INTERVIEW with Altostrata, SA's founder    NEW!!! 

 

REMINDER TO SELF:  I don't need the drug now, but my still brain does.

Current from 9 Jan 2021:  Pristiq 0.405 mg

ADs since ~1992:  25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering Oct 2015 

My tapering program   My Intro (goes to my tapering graph)  My website

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions.

Link to post

Hi -

 

6 years!!! That scares me.... i doubt ill be able to wait that long to get rid of this evil drug.

 

I was on this drug, various doses over 12 years- 20-50mg.

 

Started a taper in June to September and went horribly wrong... too quick.

 

I dropped from 50 to 20 mg a day and felt OK but once under 20 mg the serious WD came along..... did this for a further 2 months before succumbing to reinstatement of 20mg.

 

I have improved but have felt sick everyday since july 1st since i went to 10mg from the 20......................

 

Anyone have nausea? Does it go away ?

 

Thanks

 

 

 

 

On 10/14/2020 at 12:48 AM, Colonial said:

 

 

 

 

Welcome Nnaa!

 

I'm impressed with Your realization of:  "If I don't try now while I'm still relatively young and healthy, I'll just be storing up problems for later in life when I'll be less able to cope: the idea of being old and frail, on a max dose that's worn off is just unthinkable."

 

It's not just that being older makes you less resilient, it's all the other "what ifs" that can unfortunately come into play when we procrastinate.

 

I was on Paxil about 25 years before I started to taper and I'm 3 months shy of 6 years and still at it, but it's been delayed and complicated by cancer and those treatments, perimenopause and menopause and a host of other life altering injuries that require other full time medications that interact with your brain functions.  All things that could have been avoided if I had started this 20 years younger than I did.  But I was one of the unfortunate's that got fed the lie that the withdrawal symptoms were a sign of actual illness and by the time I learned otherwise all those other issues complicated my journey.  And age is like anything else, you don't realize  how things interact and sneak up on You when you live with them every day! 🙂 

 

Glad you found us, feel free to message me any time if you'd like or tag me here in your thread!

 

PAROXETINE 

 

20MG- 18-24

30MG- 24-28

50MG- 28-31

 

 

 

Link to post
  • Mentor
7 hours ago, Mike8989 said:

I dropped from 50 to 20 mg a day and felt OK but once under 20 mg the serious WD came along..... did this for a further 2 months before succumbing to reinstatement of 20mg.

 

Just 10mgs of Paxil locks down a high percentage of serotonin receptors.

I had been on 3 controlled release pills of Paxil at 12.5 mgs each.

I could drop to 2 no problem, so obviously the first 25mgs were all my brain needed and the other pill wasn't doing anything.

I could NOT, however, drop from that to only 12.5mgs. Very, very, bad.  Lol.

 

But as I say my 6 years has been complicated by other things, but one of those other things is TOO FAST Tapering.

You can taper further faster by going slow than going too fast, since then you have to wait longer to stabilize than if you had just gone slowly to begin with.

 

 

Paxil: 12/24/18 0.8mg, 3/24/19 0.64 mg,(syringe change issue date?) 4/22/19 0.60 mg, 5/24/19 0.60 mg, 7/7/19 0.52 mgs, 8/4/19 0.44mgs, 11/4/19 0.36mgs, 2/1/20 0.28mgs, 3/1/20 0.24mgs (crash April 6)

 

 

 

Link to post
On 11/1/2020 at 7:51 PM, Mike8989 said:

6 years!!! That scares me.... i doubt ill be able to wait that long to get rid of this evil drug.

Hi @Mike8989 I've just seen your post and want to say I understand how you feel and wish you strength and perseverance while agreeing with @Colonial that it's a good idea to give it time.

 

For me, the horror of a failed taper led to 15 years thinking I'd be stuck on it for life so, in a relative sense, being off it in 6 years actually seems ambitious lol! Also, there's a lot I would do to never feel like that again (the withdrawal hell) so giving it time seems like my best bet. Tbh if I hadn't reached tolerance again I would probably not be brave enough to take on the challenge of coming off it, even though its side effects suck so badly and I wish I'd never gone on it... Not sure i even am brave enough actually - more that my hand's been forced!

 

Anyway, thanks to this site, we don't have to go through it alone. Wishing you the very best with yours and see you around here I'm sure.

  • Paroxetine Taper from 10mg | 29 Oct 2020 9mg | 29 Nov 2020 8.1mg | 1 Jan 2021 7.5mg | Using DIY liquid so far (converting 1:1 mg to mL). Taking ~40mg tablet of magnesium a day since Nov 2020 (1/4 150mg tablet).
  • Paroxetine (Aropax / Seroxat / Paxil) since 1999, varying between 20mg and 5mg/day. Several failed attempts to WD. Was on 10mg/day 2013-2020 before starting taper.
  • 2020 prescribed valium (Diazepam) to take 'as needed' in support of paroxetine taper, but never taken and no longer think this is a good idea.
  • My introduction topic


Even if they’re a crowd of sorrows, who violently sweep your house empty of its furniture, still treat each guest honourably. He may be clearing you out for some new delight. –Rumi

Link to post
Quote

I went the route of having that compounded exactly at the pharmacy once I dropped below a quarter pill and also used the manufacturer liquid paxil.

 

^Note to self from Colonial in this thread, as sounds like something I might end up doing if and when I get there.

  • Paroxetine Taper from 10mg | 29 Oct 2020 9mg | 29 Nov 2020 8.1mg | 1 Jan 2021 7.5mg | Using DIY liquid so far (converting 1:1 mg to mL). Taking ~40mg tablet of magnesium a day since Nov 2020 (1/4 150mg tablet).
  • Paroxetine (Aropax / Seroxat / Paxil) since 1999, varying between 20mg and 5mg/day. Several failed attempts to WD. Was on 10mg/day 2013-2020 before starting taper.
  • 2020 prescribed valium (Diazepam) to take 'as needed' in support of paroxetine taper, but never taken and no longer think this is a good idea.
  • My introduction topic


Even if they’re a crowd of sorrows, who violently sweep your house empty of its furniture, still treat each guest honourably. He may be clearing you out for some new delight. –Rumi

Link to post

Just noting that as at today I'm still doing a rather sub-optimal process of shaving off 'about' 10% of the half-20mg-tablet that I was previously on for many years.

 

This is because, although I want to move to a DIY liquid for more accuracy, I haven't been able to get a 1mL syringe (nor a 10mL) yet. I've tried a few pharmacies but can only seem to find the 3mL and 5mL sizes. I have bought a 5mL one but (rather pathetically I know) am not confident enough in my maths to calculate the amount to take if I use anything other than a 1mg : 1mL approach as noted in my initial plan above. 

 

I've found one online chemist that has them in stock so am preparing an order as follows:

  • 1mL oral syringe x 4 (as not sure how long they'll last)
  • A graduated 30mL measuring cup so I can easily measure out 10mL of water to dissolve my halved 20mg tablet in.
  • A pipette just in case comes in helpful e.g. to make sure I measure 10mL accurately. 

 

In case it empties my cart before I finalise the order just pasting a screenshot here:

image.thumb.png.8f4469a5eb03c6cd4e8dd82551fae718.png

 

  • Paroxetine Taper from 10mg | 29 Oct 2020 9mg | 29 Nov 2020 8.1mg | 1 Jan 2021 7.5mg | Using DIY liquid so far (converting 1:1 mg to mL). Taking ~40mg tablet of magnesium a day since Nov 2020 (1/4 150mg tablet).
  • Paroxetine (Aropax / Seroxat / Paxil) since 1999, varying between 20mg and 5mg/day. Several failed attempts to WD. Was on 10mg/day 2013-2020 before starting taper.
  • 2020 prescribed valium (Diazepam) to take 'as needed' in support of paroxetine taper, but never taken and no longer think this is a good idea.
  • My introduction topic


Even if they’re a crowd of sorrows, who violently sweep your house empty of its furniture, still treat each guest honourably. He may be clearing you out for some new delight. –Rumi

Link to post
  • Mentor

Glad your making steps!

Lots of people here do it, I'm sure you'll be great once you get the hang of it!

 

 

Paxil: 12/24/18 0.8mg, 3/24/19 0.64 mg,(syringe change issue date?) 4/22/19 0.60 mg, 5/24/19 0.60 mg, 7/7/19 0.52 mgs, 8/4/19 0.44mgs, 11/4/19 0.36mgs, 2/1/20 0.28mgs, 3/1/20 0.24mgs (crash April 6)

 

 

 

Link to post

Ok I did my first DIY liquid dose.

 

I realised I can create a 9mg (=9mL) dose with the 5mL dropper I already have, using the following process:
 

  1. Split a 20mg pill in half
  2. Put one half-pill (10mg) in a clean mini jam jar
  3. Add 10mL water to the jar using my 5mL dropper by drawing up 5mL water from a cup, twice
  4. --- This creates a 10mg : 10mL suspension ---
  5. Wait 15 mins for it to disperse
  6. Stir the suspension, then discard 1mL (the dropper shows every half mL so this is accurate)
  7. Drink the remaining 9mL (including two rounds of rinse water)

 

So now I can ensure accurate dosing for this initial step of my taper (9mg).

 

If I'm feeling ok, I'll start the next 10% reduction on 26 November. By then, I should have a 1mL dropper so when I get to step 5, I'll be able to remove exactly 1.9mL, to achieve a dose of 8.10mg.

  • Paroxetine Taper from 10mg | 29 Oct 2020 9mg | 29 Nov 2020 8.1mg | 1 Jan 2021 7.5mg | Using DIY liquid so far (converting 1:1 mg to mL). Taking ~40mg tablet of magnesium a day since Nov 2020 (1/4 150mg tablet).
  • Paroxetine (Aropax / Seroxat / Paxil) since 1999, varying between 20mg and 5mg/day. Several failed attempts to WD. Was on 10mg/day 2013-2020 before starting taper.
  • 2020 prescribed valium (Diazepam) to take 'as needed' in support of paroxetine taper, but never taken and no longer think this is a good idea.
  • My introduction topic


Even if they’re a crowd of sorrows, who violently sweep your house empty of its furniture, still treat each guest honourably. He may be clearing you out for some new delight. –Rumi

Link to post
  • Moderator Emeritus
23 minutes ago, Nnaa said:

So now I can ensure accurate dosing for this initial step of my taper (9mg).

 

Continue to do it the same way you are doing it now for the whole of 9mg dose.

 

NEW!!!     INTERVIEW with Altostrata, SA's founder    NEW!!! 

 

REMINDER TO SELF:  I don't need the drug now, but my still brain does.

Current from 9 Jan 2021:  Pristiq 0.405 mg

ADs since ~1992:  25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering Oct 2015 

My tapering program   My Intro (goes to my tapering graph)  My website

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions.

Link to post
54 minutes ago, ChessieCat said:

Continue to do it the same way you are doing it now for the whole of 9mg dose.

 

Thanks @ChessieCat, yes, I'll keep taking the 9mL of DIY liquid with lunch every day, using this new process.

 

I'll review towards the end of the month, and if I'm doing ok, I'll reduce to 8.1mL. Just ordering the 1mL dropper now from https://www.pharmacydirect.com.au/.

 

Thanks for keeping an eye on my progress. I really appreciate knowing there are experienced people here for peer support and guidance. Not sure I could even do it at all without this forum. xx

  • Paroxetine Taper from 10mg | 29 Oct 2020 9mg | 29 Nov 2020 8.1mg | 1 Jan 2021 7.5mg | Using DIY liquid so far (converting 1:1 mg to mL). Taking ~40mg tablet of magnesium a day since Nov 2020 (1/4 150mg tablet).
  • Paroxetine (Aropax / Seroxat / Paxil) since 1999, varying between 20mg and 5mg/day. Several failed attempts to WD. Was on 10mg/day 2013-2020 before starting taper.
  • 2020 prescribed valium (Diazepam) to take 'as needed' in support of paroxetine taper, but never taken and no longer think this is a good idea.
  • My introduction topic


Even if they’re a crowd of sorrows, who violently sweep your house empty of its furniture, still treat each guest honourably. He may be clearing you out for some new delight. –Rumi

Link to post
  • Moderator Emeritus

I got 1mL, 3mL, 5mL and 10mL syringes.  That way I have a good range of sizes to work with.

NEW!!!     INTERVIEW with Altostrata, SA's founder    NEW!!! 

 

REMINDER TO SELF:  I don't need the drug now, but my still brain does.

Current from 9 Jan 2021:  Pristiq 0.405 mg

ADs since ~1992:  25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering Oct 2015 

My tapering program   My Intro (goes to my tapering graph)  My website

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions.

Link to post
  • 3 weeks later...

Took the next increment reduction so am taking 8.1mg so this translates to 8.1mL starting today. Signature updated. (I'm currently still on a DIY liquid using a 1:1 dilution as noted in my post above). 

 

To get the accurate 8.1mg dose, I put 10mg in 10mL of water to create a suspension. Once it's had 15 mins to disperse, I stir it, then draw out 1.9mL using a 1mL dropper (i.e. fill it once to 1 mL, discard, then a second time to 0.9 mL and discard). 

 

W/D so far hasn't been any worse than it was due to tachyphylaxis before I started the reductions. 

 

Recent sources of inspiration:

Plus, as always: Tara Brach, yoga, nature and my therapist

Edited by Nnaa
Updated to clarify that I'm using a 1:1 dilution so mg doses translate 1:1 to mL.
  • Paroxetine Taper from 10mg | 29 Oct 2020 9mg | 29 Nov 2020 8.1mg | 1 Jan 2021 7.5mg | Using DIY liquid so far (converting 1:1 mg to mL). Taking ~40mg tablet of magnesium a day since Nov 2020 (1/4 150mg tablet).
  • Paroxetine (Aropax / Seroxat / Paxil) since 1999, varying between 20mg and 5mg/day. Several failed attempts to WD. Was on 10mg/day 2013-2020 before starting taper.
  • 2020 prescribed valium (Diazepam) to take 'as needed' in support of paroxetine taper, but never taken and no longer think this is a good idea.
  • My introduction topic


Even if they’re a crowd of sorrows, who violently sweep your house empty of its furniture, still treat each guest honourably. He may be clearing you out for some new delight. –Rumi

Link to post
  • Moderator Emeritus
1 minute ago, Nnaa said:

Took the next increment reduction so am taking to 8.1mL starting today.

 

When posting about your reductions please either post only in mg OR mg and mL because different members have/use different ratios.  It can get confusing and could possibly cause errors.

 

Thank you for updating your signature and I noticed that you do use mg in your drug signature.  😊

NEW!!!     INTERVIEW with Altostrata, SA's founder    NEW!!! 

 

REMINDER TO SELF:  I don't need the drug now, but my still brain does.

Current from 9 Jan 2021:  Pristiq 0.405 mg

ADs since ~1992:  25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering Oct 2015 

My tapering program   My Intro (goes to my tapering graph)  My website

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions.

Link to post
9 minutes ago, ChessieCat said:

please post only in mg OR mg and mL

Thanks @ChessieCat, good point. I'll add a note to clarify that I'm using a 1:1 dilution so in my case when talking about mL reductions this translates 1:1 to mg.

  • Paroxetine Taper from 10mg | 29 Oct 2020 9mg | 29 Nov 2020 8.1mg | 1 Jan 2021 7.5mg | Using DIY liquid so far (converting 1:1 mg to mL). Taking ~40mg tablet of magnesium a day since Nov 2020 (1/4 150mg tablet).
  • Paroxetine (Aropax / Seroxat / Paxil) since 1999, varying between 20mg and 5mg/day. Several failed attempts to WD. Was on 10mg/day 2013-2020 before starting taper.
  • 2020 prescribed valium (Diazepam) to take 'as needed' in support of paroxetine taper, but never taken and no longer think this is a good idea.
  • My introduction topic


Even if they’re a crowd of sorrows, who violently sweep your house empty of its furniture, still treat each guest honourably. He may be clearing you out for some new delight. –Rumi

Link to post
  • 4 weeks later...

Tomorrow will mark 4 weeks on the 8.1mL dose, and it's been ok, so I'm going to progress to the next increment.

According to my calculations this will mean I'll go to 7.29mL starting tomorrow (27 Dec 2020) then review again after four weeks - on 24 Jan 2021.

 

To get 7.29mL via the DIY liquid, I'll be making a 10mL suspension as before, and then using the 1mL dropper to draw out:

  • 1mL twice, i.e. two full syringes (bringing it down to 8mL);
  • Then a further 0.71mL, bringing it down to 7.29mL

I hope that's correct. I wish I was more numerate. If anyone is able to confirm my maths I'd be grateful but I'll ask my partner too if not!

 

My latest sources of inspiration:

  • The Let's Talk Withdrawal podcast (I hope this will continue again after the excellent episodes in 2019)
  • A note I wrote to myself last time I emerged from a really bad patch. It's nothing revolutionary but just with some reminders to ignore some of the predictable thoughts, to trust my autopilot, to remember it's not permanent, etc.
  • Paroxetine Taper from 10mg | 29 Oct 2020 9mg | 29 Nov 2020 8.1mg | 1 Jan 2021 7.5mg | Using DIY liquid so far (converting 1:1 mg to mL). Taking ~40mg tablet of magnesium a day since Nov 2020 (1/4 150mg tablet).
  • Paroxetine (Aropax / Seroxat / Paxil) since 1999, varying between 20mg and 5mg/day. Several failed attempts to WD. Was on 10mg/day 2013-2020 before starting taper.
  • 2020 prescribed valium (Diazepam) to take 'as needed' in support of paroxetine taper, but never taken and no longer think this is a good idea.
  • My introduction topic


Even if they’re a crowd of sorrows, who violently sweep your house empty of its furniture, still treat each guest honourably. He may be clearing you out for some new delight. –Rumi

Link to post
  • Mentor
10 minutes ago, Nnaa said:

Then a further 0.71mL, bringing it down to 7.29mL

 

That's great you didn't have any large issues this month! 🙂

Yes, 8.1 multiplied by 0.9 is 7.29.

 

Only you know how well you are able to accurately see the little lines in between the larger lines of the syringe.

You could drop it a tiny less to 7.30ml if it's easier to read as you want to keep dosages as accurate as possible.

 

Also be aware since your dropping it every 28 days in stead of every month (30-31 days) that adds up to another week faster every 2 cycles.

(Every 8 weeks instead of 2 full months- 9 weeks).

 

Just be aware occasionally as you get further down with Paxil you might want to make longer holds and maybe smaller drops.

Dropping maybe 8.5 percent or close to it and waiting 30-35 days now and again, depending on how you do.

There's no rule that you have to stick to a certain timeline.

Listen to your body and give it some extra time in between drops if you have a stressful month or are ill, etc.

Glad your still doing well over all!

Paxil: 12/24/18 0.8mg, 3/24/19 0.64 mg,(syringe change issue date?) 4/22/19 0.60 mg, 5/24/19 0.60 mg, 7/7/19 0.52 mgs, 8/4/19 0.44mgs, 11/4/19 0.36mgs, 2/1/20 0.28mgs, 3/1/20 0.24mgs (crash April 6)

 

 

 

Link to post

Oh thanks @Colonial- always so grateful for your thoughts and suggestions. I think a month at a time sounds like a sensible minimum, so will wait till the 29th. I think also I might just reduce to 7.5 mL this time. It's actually quite easy to see the lines on the 0.1 mL dropper but a smaller reduction does feel safer. And yes, I'll definitely keep monitoring how I feel, and make smaller drops and longer holds to try and smooth the ride as much as possible. Thanks again.

  • Paroxetine Taper from 10mg | 29 Oct 2020 9mg | 29 Nov 2020 8.1mg | 1 Jan 2021 7.5mg | Using DIY liquid so far (converting 1:1 mg to mL). Taking ~40mg tablet of magnesium a day since Nov 2020 (1/4 150mg tablet).
  • Paroxetine (Aropax / Seroxat / Paxil) since 1999, varying between 20mg and 5mg/day. Several failed attempts to WD. Was on 10mg/day 2013-2020 before starting taper.
  • 2020 prescribed valium (Diazepam) to take 'as needed' in support of paroxetine taper, but never taken and no longer think this is a good idea.
  • My introduction topic


Even if they’re a crowd of sorrows, who violently sweep your house empty of its furniture, still treat each guest honourably. He may be clearing you out for some new delight. –Rumi

Link to post

Ok started today with 7.5mL; will see how it goes.

  • Paroxetine Taper from 10mg | 29 Oct 2020 9mg | 29 Nov 2020 8.1mg | 1 Jan 2021 7.5mg | Using DIY liquid so far (converting 1:1 mg to mL). Taking ~40mg tablet of magnesium a day since Nov 2020 (1/4 150mg tablet).
  • Paroxetine (Aropax / Seroxat / Paxil) since 1999, varying between 20mg and 5mg/day. Several failed attempts to WD. Was on 10mg/day 2013-2020 before starting taper.
  • 2020 prescribed valium (Diazepam) to take 'as needed' in support of paroxetine taper, but never taken and no longer think this is a good idea.
  • My introduction topic


Even if they’re a crowd of sorrows, who violently sweep your house empty of its furniture, still treat each guest honourably. He may be clearing you out for some new delight. –Rumi

Link to post

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