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kiwifellow

kiwifellow: Zyban / Wellbutrin / bupropion tapering plans?

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kiwifellow

Hello all I need some help with getting off Zyban ( Bupropion )

 

 In NZ we also only have Zyban in SR 150mg taken twice a day. I have only been on Zyban for 4 months and I am sick of the side effect and feel I should come off it. 

 

What I am wanting to know is what side effect you've had etc while taking it? I find when I take the second pill in the afternoon of 150mg SR that my stomach plays up about 2hrs after taking it. Massive dry mouth at night & problems with my stool etc. Is this common?

 

Also I've read on here mainly information about Wellbutrin & not so much about Zyban. I understand if I am correct these are exactly the same ? Can someone confirm for me that you can cut the Zyban 150mg SR pills and that they hold there release time or do they now become Instant release? 

 

Reason I ask is I tried yesterday to drop from 300mg to 262mg ( Dropped 1/4 off the afternoon pill ) and within 2hrs my stomach went mental & I've been in and out of tears the past 24hrs and still feeling ill.

 

Can someone help me here?


2015 - Started Zoplicone for sleeping off & on for 5 years ( No more than a week to 10 days at time )

2016 - Stared Thyroxine as I have Hasimotos Hypothyroid ( Still taking today 25mg )

2019 - Problems with Zoplicone started, Tried Temazepham with same problems

2020 - June - Had massive problems with trying different medications and had a breakdown

2020 -  July - Started 6mg Diazepam to help with side effects of Zyban ( Bupropion ) 300mg  

2020 - August - Started Diazepam taper as I have a dependence to Benzo's ( Funny that after they said zoplicone was not a benzo...)

2020 - Oct - 1.2mg diazepam ( Have had 5 major withdrawls since Aug )

 

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ChessieCat

Hi kiwifellow and welcome to SA,

 

I'm pleased that you have found SA as early as you have.

 

Could you also please create a drug signature (ALL drugs) because we need to be able to see your drug history at a glance?  Please follow these instructions:

 

Instructions:  Withdrawal History Signature
Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature

 

After creating your drug signature please advise us by posting so that we are notified that you have done this.  Thank you.

 

13 minutes ago, kiwifellow said:

my stomach plays up about 2hrs after taking it. Massive dry mouth at night & problems with my stool etc. Is this common?

 

I've just checked the drugs.com website and found this:

 

Commonly reported side effects of bupropion include: insomnia, nausea, pharyngitis, weight loss, constipation, dizziness, headache, and xerostomia. Other side effects include: abdominal pain, agitation, arthralgia, chest pain, migraine, skin rash, urinary frequency, anxiety, asthenia, confusion, diarrhea, hostility, hypertension, lack of concentration, myalgia, nervousness, palpitations, pruritus, tinnitus, tremor, vomiting, anorexia, diaphoresis, dysgeusia, flushing, and abnormal dreams.

 

So yes, from what I've found, the stomach issues are common side effects.

 

Even though you've only been on Zyban for 4 months, it can take as little as 4 weeks for the brain to fully adapt to taking a psychiatric drug.  Stopping the drug too quickly can cause withdrawal symptoms.

 

SA's suggested taper rate is no more than 10% of the current dose followed by a hold of about 4 weeks to allow the brain to adapt to not getting as much of the drug.  However, in some situations a person may be able to taper a bit faster. 

 

Q:  Can you tell whether your current symptoms, after reducing the dose, are withdrawal or side effects?

 

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

This is a handy checklist to have.  If you start experiencing more than minimal withdrawal symptoms then you are tapering too quickly:

 

Dr Joseph Glenmullen's WD Symptoms Checklist

 

Please see Post #1 of this topic which explains how to get the dose you need:

 

tips-for-tapering-off-wellbutrin-sr-xr-xl-zyban-buproprion

 

After reading the above information please ask any questions you have.

 

This is your own Introduction topic, which is the place for you to ask questions about your own situation and to journal your progress.


REMINDER TO SELF:

I don't need the drug now, but my still brain does.

ADs:  25 years - 1 unknown, Prozac (caused muscle weakness), Zoloft/sertraline; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after)

Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (mild Serotonin Toxicity)

Began tapering Oct 2015  Current from 17 Oct 2020:  Pristiq 0.56 mg (compounded + liquid)

My tapering program

My Intro (goes to my tapering graph)

My website - includes my brief history + links to videos & information on the web

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions.

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kiwifellow

Hey Chessiecat

 

Thank you for the reply. 

 

I was put on Zyban  300mg ( Bupropion ) in July as I had a breakdown and kinda had no choice but to start a antidepressant.  I had over the years been using Zoplicone for sleep as I am an athlete and need my sleep so I used this off and on for 5 years until last year when I started to feel sick every time I took it then without knowing I needed up creating a reliance on it and we think thats why I ended up having a breakdown as I was most likely experiencing major withdrawls. Other than this I use a Escitolpram I think it was 4 years ago for 9months and came off that within a month.

 

To help they said with the bupropion side effects I was told to use Diazepam & this would also help me with the benzo problem I had with Zoplicone. After 4 weeks of using 6mg of Diazepam I started tapering and of course have gone way to fast. I have had on & off withdrawls about 5 times now over 4 months and I am currently at 1.15mg and struggling big time.

 

The main problem I have now is sleep. I can't sleep anymore with the lower doses of Diazepam and taking the full 300mg of Bupropion. I have major dry mouth at night that keeps waking me up. I may get at best 1-2hrs a night now. I also am having major headaches at the end of the day & stomach problems as side effects.

 

After reading more on here the consensus seems to be to taper the AD as its an upper first and leave the benzo ( The brake they called it ) to last. I am starting to agree as my sleep has got worse the lower I reduce the Diazepam.

 

Question 1 -

 

Problem I have in NZ is they gave me Zyban SR 150 twice a day which I understand is more used for smoking. This is the only product we have in our country. I need clear advice as to weather Zyban SR & Wellbutrin SR are exactly the same drugs & release etc as the links on here are mainly talking about Wellbutrin for taper.

 

Question 2 - Can you cut Zyban 150mg to use for tapers & does it stay as SR or change to IR ? Meaning once cut it becomes instant release to be taken 3 times a day?

 

Question 3 - Can someone confirm that its best advised to hold the benzo for now & taper the Zyban first & does the side effects such as sleeplessness improve once lowered?

 

Thanks for the help so far too. Your a gem

 

 


2015 - Started Zoplicone for sleeping off & on for 5 years ( No more than a week to 10 days at time )

2016 - Stared Thyroxine as I have Hasimotos Hypothyroid ( Still taking today 25mg )

2019 - Problems with Zoplicone started, Tried Temazepham with same problems

2020 - June - Had massive problems with trying different medications and had a breakdown

2020 -  July - Started 6mg Diazepam to help with side effects of Zyban ( Bupropion ) 300mg  

2020 - August - Started Diazepam taper as I have a dependence to Benzo's ( Funny that after they said zoplicone was not a benzo...)

2020 - Oct - 1.2mg diazepam ( Have had 5 major withdrawls since Aug )

 

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Gridley
13 hours ago, kiwifellow said:

Question 1 -

 

Problem I have in NZ is they gave me Zyban SR 150 twice a day which I understand is more used for smoking. This is the only product we have in our country. I need clear advice as to weather Zyban SR & Wellbutrin SR are exactly the same drugs & release etc as the links on here are mainly talking about Wellbutrin for taper.

According to an NIH publication, the two products share an identical chemical structure.  However, if you'll look at the section on Wellbutrin SR in the link ChessieCat provided, Tips for Tapering off Wellbutrin, the question of the time-release factor when the pill is cut isn't as clear and it is suggested that you call the manufacturer (where you'll likely not get a straight answer) or contact a pharmacist specializing in psychopharmacology.

 

 

13 hours ago, kiwifellow said:

 

Question 2 - Can you cut Zyban 150mg to use for tapers & does it stay as SR or change to IR ? Meaning once cut it becomes instant release to be taken 3 times a day?

 

As stated in #1, it depends on the makeup of the particular pill you're taking.  You'd need to talk to the manufacturer or a knowledgable pharmacist.  

 

13 hours ago, kiwifellow said:

 

Question 3 - Can someone confirm that its best advised to hold the benzo for now & taper the Zyban first & does the side effects such as sleeplessness improve once lowered?

 

Yes, hold the benzo until you've finished the Zyban taper.  

 

I'd read the Tips link carefully as it gives detailed instruction on various strategies for tapering off Wellbutrin/Zyban.


Gridley Introduction

 

Lexapro 20 mg since 2004.  Began taper using Brassmonkey slide Jan. 2017.   

End 2017 year 1 of taper at 9.25mg 

End 2018 year 2 of taper at 4.1mg

End 2019 year 3 of taper at 1.0mg  

Current from Oct. 21, 2020 at 0.025mg

Taper is 99.875% complete.

 

Lorazepam 1 mg 1986-1991 CT, resumed a few months later. CT 2000.  1 mg 2011-2016.  Sept, 2016 increased to 0.5 X 3 in split dose. Sept. 2019 increased to 0.625 X 3 after crossover to new brand

 

Imipramine 75 mg daily since 1986.  Jan. 2016 began every 3-weeks 10% taper, down to 15mg.  Aug 2016, discovered SA, updosed to 25mg and holding.  Taper is 66% complete.  

  

Supplements: omega, vitamins E and D3, magnesium glycinate, probiotic, melatonin .3mg


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice, but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

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kiwifellow

Hi Gridley

 

Thanks for the reply.

 

This was what I was thinking of -

 

My plan was to weight the pills as I have done this with the Benzo taper. 

 

Example - Drop 1 of 10% of the total 300mg per day = 30mg drop meaning 270mg per day for 2-4weeks

 

Option 1 - Take the even dose 3 times a day as once split or crushed it becomes instant release  ( 90mg at 6am, 90mg 12pm, 90mg 6pm ) - This would be done by crushing the pills

 

Option 2 - Take the dose  2 times a day ( 135mg at 6am & 135mg at 2pm ) - This would be done by filing 15mg off each pill meaning only part of the pill is exposed.

 

I have spoken with my pharmacy and they have been really great and have said they are looking into a liquid and or a possible option of making batches of the required dosage drops for me in capsule forms. 

 

If they did make capsule forms for me I guess they would take the existing Zyban SR, crush it & divide the dose for me into capsules but I need more info on if this would effect the doses strength if they made lets say 2-4weeks worth.

 

Hope you can help guide me here or anyone else.

 

I will also hold the Diazepam taper now until I am clear of the Zyban.

 

Many thanks buddy, People like you and others on here sharing are truly special people and cannot thank you enough. :)

 

Kiwifellow

 

 


2015 - Started Zoplicone for sleeping off & on for 5 years ( No more than a week to 10 days at time )

2016 - Stared Thyroxine as I have Hasimotos Hypothyroid ( Still taking today 25mg )

2019 - Problems with Zoplicone started, Tried Temazepham with same problems

2020 - June - Had massive problems with trying different medications and had a breakdown

2020 -  July - Started 6mg Diazepam to help with side effects of Zyban ( Bupropion ) 300mg  

2020 - August - Started Diazepam taper as I have a dependence to Benzo's ( Funny that after they said zoplicone was not a benzo...)

2020 - Oct - 1.2mg diazepam ( Have had 5 major withdrawls since Aug )

 

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Gridley

@kiwifellow

 

9 minutes ago, kiwifellow said:

 

Example - Drop 1 of 10% of the total 300mg per day = 30mg drop meaning 270mg per day for 2-4weeks

 

How are you measuring to get 10%?  With a scale?  I'd start out with 4 weeks and see how you do.  If you're doing well, you could try 10% every two weeks.

But I wouldn't reduce any faster than every two weeks.  This is in the immediate--release section of the following link.  It's worth a read as it talks a bit about how fast you can go.

 

tips-for-tapering-off-wellbutrin-sr-xr-xl-zyban-buproprion

 

12 minutes ago, kiwifellow said:

 

Option 1 - Take the even dose 3 times a day as once split or crushed it becomes instant release  ( 90mg at 6am, 90mg 12pm, 90mg 6pm ) - This would be done by crushing the pills

 

 

I'd dose 3X daily.  That's what's recommended.

 

13 minutes ago, kiwifellow said:

 

I have spoken with my pharmacy and they have been really great and have said they are looking into a liquid and or a possible option of making batches of the required dosage drops for me in capsule forms. 

 

This would be great.  There's discussion in the link on using a liquid, which is highly recommended as easy and accurate.  The batches in capsules would also be fine, basically what a compounding pharmacy does.

 

15 minutes ago, kiwifellow said:

 

If they did make capsule forms for me I guess they would take the existing Zyban SR, crush it & divide the dose for me into capsules but I need more info on if this would effect the doses strength if they made lets say 2-4weeks worth.

 

I don't see how it would affect the doses' strength.  The crushed powder wouldn't lose strength any faster that the original tablet.  2-4 weeks' worth would retain its original strength.

 

 


Gridley Introduction

 

Lexapro 20 mg since 2004.  Began taper using Brassmonkey slide Jan. 2017.   

End 2017 year 1 of taper at 9.25mg 

End 2018 year 2 of taper at 4.1mg

End 2019 year 3 of taper at 1.0mg  

Current from Oct. 21, 2020 at 0.025mg

Taper is 99.875% complete.

 

Lorazepam 1 mg 1986-1991 CT, resumed a few months later. CT 2000.  1 mg 2011-2016.  Sept, 2016 increased to 0.5 X 3 in split dose. Sept. 2019 increased to 0.625 X 3 after crossover to new brand

 

Imipramine 75 mg daily since 1986.  Jan. 2016 began every 3-weeks 10% taper, down to 15mg.  Aug 2016, discovered SA, updosed to 25mg and holding.  Taper is 66% complete.  

  

Supplements: omega, vitamins E and D3, magnesium glycinate, probiotic, melatonin .3mg


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice, but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

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kiwifellow

Mate, thanks for the help.

 

Yes I bought a 0.001 scale that I have been using for the diazepam taper so I would use that to correctly measure out the daily dose's by weight based off 10% taper per 2-4 weeks.

 

The compounding idea sounds like it would be best for me and less hassle if i get it made in monthly batches at 10% drops and use as I need etc. I would have to use the Zyban SR 150mg pills as this is all we can get in NZ.

 

I guess the one thing I may need to do is first off get my body use to 3 times a day IR instead of the 2 times a day SR. Hope this doesn't trigger withdrawls as Im over them with what I've been through the past 5 months from Diazepam.

 

Thanks buddy & keep well.

 

 


2015 - Started Zoplicone for sleeping off & on for 5 years ( No more than a week to 10 days at time )

2016 - Stared Thyroxine as I have Hasimotos Hypothyroid ( Still taking today 25mg )

2019 - Problems with Zoplicone started, Tried Temazepham with same problems

2020 - June - Had massive problems with trying different medications and had a breakdown

2020 -  July - Started 6mg Diazepam to help with side effects of Zyban ( Bupropion ) 300mg  

2020 - August - Started Diazepam taper as I have a dependence to Benzo's ( Funny that after they said zoplicone was not a benzo...)

2020 - Oct - 1.2mg diazepam ( Have had 5 major withdrawls since Aug )

 

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ChessieCat

  

36 minutes ago, kiwifellow said:

Also with changing from SR twice a day to now IR 3 times a day, would it be suggested I do the first month at my normal 300mg per day to get use to the change or should I just the first drop at the same time?

 

SA recommends only making one change at a time.  That means not making a reduction at the same time as changing form/dose time.  the-rule-of-3kis-keep-it-simple-keep-it-slow-keep-it-stable

 

When changing form of a drug SA suggestions doing a cross over which is gentler on your system.  The general suggestion is to do each combination for 3-7 days (holding for longer if needed):  3/4 old + 1/4 new, 1/2 + 1/2, 1/4 + 3/4.

 

SA also suggests when changing dosing time to move the dose by 1 hour each day.

 

My brain is not working at full capacity today so I'm not able to offer any input about how you could go about making the change/s.  I suggest that you can use the above information and come up with a plan and then post it so that somebody can check it.


REMINDER TO SELF:

I don't need the drug now, but my still brain does.

ADs:  25 years - 1 unknown, Prozac (caused muscle weakness), Zoloft/sertraline; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after)

Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (mild Serotonin Toxicity)

Began tapering Oct 2015  Current from 17 Oct 2020:  Pristiq 0.56 mg (compounded + liquid)

My tapering program

My Intro (goes to my tapering graph)

My website - includes my brief history + links to videos & information on the web

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions.

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