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almuPA: introduction


almuPA

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Hello @Marta, bello sentirlo da te(not sure if I said that right), but It makes me Happy to hear from you

. Hello, @Faure, thank you for writting. How are you?

 

I am not doing bad. I am coming out a wave, and still I don't feel like myself, but I can cook, clean, go for walks... I know It sounds pretty normal, but since I am in WD these are great achievements for me!

 

I had my second dose of Pfizer the 2 of September. The Next day I was in bed feeling weak, but It was my nephew's birthday, so I went downstairs to celebrate(I live with my sister, brother in law, 2 nephews and my husband). 

 

Two days after my vaccine we went bowling, because that was what my nephew wanted to do for his birthday. I have to say that with all the lights, loud músic and people withouth masks, It was challenging for me. But I just breathed deeply and thought that It was only for a couple of hours. We had a good time, but I was exhausted afterwards.

 

I've had a bad wave during my period, but I always have. I was very very depressed and anxious and crying. I also felt very very tired, dizzy and had very bad insomnia for like a week.

 

I still feel tired and my brain is slow. While I am writting this I don't know if anything makes any sence and is taking me a while! I also have headaches, but I think they might be relate to tension in the shoulders area. I also feel my eyes tired and ichty. As I mentioned before, I went to have my view(is this the right Word?) test and they found nothing, so maybe is because I stare at my phone too much, or the inflammation, or I don't know. During my wave I could not help but worrying about It, but right now I am more in a "you've got It test and they found nothing so try to live with It" phase.

 

I have other symptons, like pains and needles in the arms and feet, moments of apathy, tiredness, I forget words and lose concentration easily, moments when I don't want to talk to anybody... But I am optimistic, because in this wave I did not have a panic attack, suicidal thoughts/desire and the tiredness was not as bad as previous waves, so I want to think that I am healing. This proccess is very slow and I've always been a very impatient person, but maybe is an opportunity for me to learn. 

 

I've been thinking about writting about my experience with my father during my trip to Spain. He takes 3 orfidal(lorazepam) a day and is reaching tolerance and is having WD symptons as well. But I am not sure if I am ready, or if It would be helpful and interesting. 

 

This was long, sorry! 

 

March 2019: 10mg Citalopram

April 2019: 20mg Citalopram

October/November 2019(sorry, I don't remember the exact date): 10mg of Citalopram without tapering, as suggested by my pharmacist. 

March 2020: Started "tapering", taking the 10mg of Citalopram every other day, again, following the recommendations of my pharmacist. 

April 2020: Stopped taking Citalopram.

I haven't reinstall since then. I've tried taking Magnesium a couple of times, but I found out it makes me nervous. I only take Paracetemol when the headache becomes unbearable (2gr every couple of weeks or so). 

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Hello,   @AndyPants, @getofflex, THANK YOU. Your words mean the world to me in this difficult moment. It is strange because knowing that there's more people like me makes me very sad(and ang

Thank you for posting @almuPA.  You're in the acute phase, but it will get better.  Be extra gentle with yourself--even if it's just one moment at a time.  You're doing really well.  It's so hard to e

No you are not.  It can certainly feel like it.  It sounds like your nervous system is in significant withdrawal.         It could be the windows and waves pattern of recovery.  

That is all such good news- I’m so glad to hear you are improving. Well done! Especially with the socialising - that really isn’t easy in WD and even less so in these Covid times. I too have big dips around my period which is rubbish, I have to remind myself they won’t last long. My taper has been on hold for a couple of weeks while I adjust to going back to some face to face work but I’m hoping to start again next week.  Take care, and hopefully you are enjoy this lovely english sun!

Mirtazepine 15mg Nov 2018 -April 2019

April - Sept 2019 Mirtazepine 7.5

October 2019 - about 4 Nov 6mg Mirtazepine 

4-13 Nov anxiety & sleep problems caused by change of brand & jumping around with doses

13 Nov 2019 to 7 Dec 2019 10mg Mirtazepine 

8-10 Dec 2019 15mg Mirtazepine 

11 Dec 2019 to date 12.5mg Mirtazepine 

15 December 2019 to 13 June 2021 15mg Mirtazepine 

14 June 2021 started brass monkey Slide.  
23 August 2021 12.3mg

 

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Helllo @Faure,

 

Thanks for your kind reply. 

 

I wish you luck with your taper, hope you can continue, but if you dont feel well dont rush it. I am here cheering for you:)

March 2019: 10mg Citalopram

April 2019: 20mg Citalopram

October/November 2019(sorry, I don't remember the exact date): 10mg of Citalopram without tapering, as suggested by my pharmacist. 

March 2020: Started "tapering", taking the 10mg of Citalopram every other day, again, following the recommendations of my pharmacist. 

April 2020: Stopped taking Citalopram.

I haven't reinstall since then. I've tried taking Magnesium a couple of times, but I found out it makes me nervous. I only take Paracetemol when the headache becomes unbearable (2gr every couple of weeks or so). 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hello,

 

I felt inspired by Rosetta's post about her mother and AD to write about my experience with my father and escitalopram and orfidal(lorazepam).

 

So, in 2019 my father started to feel very depressed and anxious. He's been before, so he went to his P doc. He gave my father a prescription for Zolot. Also, he told him to take a tablet of orfidal whenever he felt nervous😒 At the time, I was in 10mg of citalopram and feeling the effects of going from 20 to 10mg CT, I just did not know yet what WD was.

 

In January 2020, my father had surgery. He was very very lucky because they found a tiny tiny cáncer in his colon. He didnt even need quemo. The thing is, he was taking at the time Zolot and 3 tablets of orfidal a day(I don't know mg). Everything was fine, but 3 days after surgery he started to complain. The pain was too much, he was too nervous, he could not sleep, he would start crying out of the blue... And he kept on asking for drugs. In the hospital they told him they would only give him norotil for the pain, nothing else. He asked me to take his medicine bag to the hospital(I stayed with them for 10 days), but my mum said no.

Everybody was telling him that 3 orfidal a day was too much. When he was feeling depressed or anxious, I tried to talk to him and being rational. As I said, I didnt understand that he was going thru WD. 

 

Anyway, he went home and started taking his pills again. I don't know about quantity, but the thing is that he was still complaining about not feeling good. So his PDoc changed the Zolot for escitalopram, CT. It seemed that it helped a little. I could only see him one time that year(Covid) and he did not look ok, but I was in my own journey of WD, so honestly I was too  worried about myself to think about him, as bad as it sounds. 

 

Fast forward to March '21, he updosed escitalopram from 5 to 10mg, by his PDoc advice. 3 days later, he had a ventricular arrhythmia and had to start having  heart medication. I send my mum a link for an article about a Harvard University study that linked heart arrhythmia with some AD's, like escitalopram. My mum said she asked the doctors about It and they said that they doubt AD's could influence his heart(surprise, surprise😓).

 

This summer I spent a whole month in Spain with my parents. I am in my own WD journey and this year it's been the worst and longest of my life. So to see my father living with tolerance to benzos and WD is devastating. He talked to me about his symptons: panic attacks, morning cortisol spikes, temperature desregulation, anhedonia, itchy testicles, drowsines,poor coordination... I suffered all of them. I tried to Talk to him about WD and tolerance. He told me that the only reason he wakes-up in the mornings was because of the pills. That he would LOVE to live without them but he does not think he can. The thing is, I know he wants to try. When he is having a good day, he takes one less tablet of orfidal. But then he got very nervous and shaky. He freaks out and take the pills again. I tried to explain to him that that is not the way to come out of them. I don't tell him the real risks because  I honestly don't think he is ready to know them, he would just get very scared. 

 

I tried to Talk to my mum(she has an unhealthy influence in him, but that is another topic). She does not tell me she doesnt believe in WD because she knows my opinion and she doesnt want to argue with me. But she thinks It is much simple than It is. She told me he could just "toughen Up"but he doenst want to. I send her a link about benzos in Wikipedia, that surprisingly it explained everything very well, It even mentioned the 10% tapper method(It is in Spanish, thats why I don't share it). But she just took a brief look at it and said: "I already know"🙄.

 

I talked to my sister and she more or less believes me, but we cannot convince our dad to stop taking escitalopram or orfidal one by one and little by little.

 

For a while, I was desperate and frustated. But then I realized that that was not my fight. As much as it hurt me. As much as I love him. As much as I try and send links and studies and try to explain my own experience. 

 

It is very hard to let go. But It is something I am getting better at in WD. Let go of what you cant control. I tried, now is his choice. 

 

I know this is very long and maybe not interesting. But reading Rosetta's post I've realized I am not alone. And maybe someday this words can help somebody to feel less lonely or frustated. 

 

This is the link to the article about the Harvard University study:

 

https://www.health.harvard.edu/heart-health/antidepressants-and-arrhythmias.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

March 2019: 10mg Citalopram

April 2019: 20mg Citalopram

October/November 2019(sorry, I don't remember the exact date): 10mg of Citalopram without tapering, as suggested by my pharmacist. 

March 2020: Started "tapering", taking the 10mg of Citalopram every other day, again, following the recommendations of my pharmacist. 

April 2020: Stopped taking Citalopram.

I haven't reinstall since then. I've tried taking Magnesium a couple of times, but I found out it makes me nervous. I only take Paracetemol when the headache becomes unbearable (2gr every couple of weeks or so). 

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Hello, I was just thinking of you today and wondering how you are. It is interesting to read your father’s story. As you say everyone is on their own journey and each person has to make his or her own choices. No matter what the issue no one can make anyone else do anything until they want to. Maybe when he is ready he will come to you for advice or help.
 

How is your withdrawal going? Mine is back on track after a longer hold than I wanted, although now I caught a really nasty cold and am very fed up with having to rest at home and not go to work. Fortunately it has not derailed the taper so far. 

Mirtazepine 15mg Nov 2018 -April 2019

April - Sept 2019 Mirtazepine 7.5

October 2019 - about 4 Nov 6mg Mirtazepine 

4-13 Nov anxiety & sleep problems caused by change of brand & jumping around with doses

13 Nov 2019 to 7 Dec 2019 10mg Mirtazepine 

8-10 Dec 2019 15mg Mirtazepine 

11 Dec 2019 to date 12.5mg Mirtazepine 

15 December 2019 to 13 June 2021 15mg Mirtazepine 

14 June 2021 started brass monkey Slide.  
23 August 2021 12.3mg

 

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Hello @Faure,

 

thanks for reading my long post. 

I Hope your cold is going better.

 

I don't have very good news, unfortunally. I am not feeling good. I havent for 10 days or more. I think that in September I over did It, and my body didnt like that, so now I am paying for It.

 

After I came back to the UK(where I live) from Spain(where I am from), I was not feeling bad. So I tried to catch Up with everything: cleaning the house, writting, some web projects I had on hold because of WD, learning a new language... The breaking point came when I went to a plástic free shop that is quite far from my house. Yes, I took the bus but I still had to walk a lot, with bags full of products with bottles I reused. It was raining and cold and then in the bus It was very Hot. After that day, my whole body was aching, I felt super tired and with no strength, my throat was itchy and my eyes very watery. The thing is, I did not stop. I did not want to accept that a wave was coming. 

 

On top of that, my mother was coming to visit the following week, after 2 years. So I wanted to have the house ready for her. I cleaned the sofa-bed and the whole living-room(where she sleeps) just to find the Next day everything full of crumbs of my nephews. I know they are kids, but the rave I felt after I saw that... I was not feeling good, but I am the only of 4 adults Who cares to clean the house. A house with 2 complete bathrooms, and 2 living-rooms. And I am the only one cleaning, because I am the only one not working. And I am so tired. So after that I just couldnt take it anymore and spent the rest of the time, until my mother came, in bed.

 

But the worst thing is that I feel my marriage is falling apart. My husband is so tired of me and this situation. I understand him. He Lost his mother 5 months ago, he changed jobs and he has to deal with my WD. But I just cant change the situation. I feel bad for him, but that only puts more pressure on myself. I feel that if I don't cook for him or if he has to worry about the laundry or about my panic attacks, I am a bad wife. 

 

So I decided to come to Spain with my mum. I came yesterday and the trip was awful. I am so tired, but I hope I can give my husband space and peace of mind for some days. But if I have to be honest, I don't know if I can deal with the situation anymore. I don't like how my husband treats me. Again, I understand him, I know is not easy for him. But neither is for me. Is like I have to rush my WD for him. And for the family I live with. So they don't have to worry, so I can be the same again, so I can help them. But I cant help to ask myself who the hell is there to help me when I need It.  I guess I am being selfish.

 

Amother thing that disturbs me is that in September I was not feeling bad, but I did not have a great day either, a day where I could feel like the old me, laughing and with no symptons. I know the road to recovery is not linear, but after having a couple of days like that during the summer, It is sad not having them again.

 

Anyway, sorry again for the lenght of this post.

March 2019: 10mg Citalopram

April 2019: 20mg Citalopram

October/November 2019(sorry, I don't remember the exact date): 10mg of Citalopram without tapering, as suggested by my pharmacist. 

March 2020: Started "tapering", taking the 10mg of Citalopram every other day, again, following the recommendations of my pharmacist. 

April 2020: Stopped taking Citalopram.

I haven't reinstall since then. I've tried taking Magnesium a couple of times, but I found out it makes me nervous. I only take Paracetemol when the headache becomes unbearable (2gr every couple of weeks or so). 

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  • Moderator

Dear @almuPA

I'm sorry that you're having a rough time.  Emotional issues are so very upsetting during w/d.  I can imagine the stress you must be feeling.🙁  It's hard for others who never took these drugs, or aren't getting off them, to understand what it's like for us.  Even though you may not be working outside of the house, taking care of yourself during w/d can be quite a job, plus doing housework counts as work.  Also, support and kindness can help us to recover.  I worry for you if he's not being kind.  No matter what, I don't think it's selfish to recognize that you must take care of yourself.  We really don't have a choice because w/d is often incapacitating, and in order to get well, we must limit as much stress as possible.  Please know you have my support in doing what you need to do to get well. 🙏 The fact that you had some good days in the summer is a sign to me that you will get well.  We know it might be slow with waves and windows, but with good care, you're going to make it.  Please keep us posted.  You're an important member of our community.  Again, I'm sorry that you're having to go through both w/d and troubles with your husband.

My heart is with you--💗

Arbor

Zoloft: 1995 - 2015

Prozac: 2015 - 2018 (tapered from 40mg x day on July 31 to 30mg on August 31 to 20mg on September 31 to 10mg October 31 to 0mg on  December 15, 2018

Gabapentin: 2016 to 2019  (tapered from 300mg x day to 150mg on August 31, 2019 to 75mg on September 15 to 50mg on September 31 to 25ishmg on October 15 to 0mg on December 1, 2019

Enalapril: 2010 - 2019

Lipitor: 2017 -2017

Metformin: 2000 - 2020

Liothyronine: 2007 - 2019

Levothyroxine: 2000 - 

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Hi, I’m so sorry things are not good again and that you feel your marriage is in danger. It’s difficult for everyone around us when things are bad, but for us it is far worse.  They are not having to endure WD symptoms and they can and do get on with their lives.  I’m really sorry you are not getting the support you need. Looking after your own needs isn’t being selfish. It’s taking care of yourself.

 

I wonder if one reason some of us are here is that we never learned to take care of our needs, I know that is the case for me. I always used to put the needs of others ahead of my own without even knowing I did it. And then never knowing why I was anxious to the point of breaking down and not being able to function. It took a therapist quite some time (at the age of 40) to teach me about needs and how to ensure I met them. Taking care of our needs is essential for our wellbeing, it isn’t selfish.  I read a good book about self care, The Self Care Project which helped me. 
 

When  I was struggling my GP went on and on about ‘pacing’ as did my best friend, whose favourite word for me is ‘steady’!  I had to learn not to do all the things that I wanted to do the minute I felt better, because it always resulted in feeling worse. It’s very hard when your mum was coming to visit, of course you wanted the house to be nice for her.  
 

Is it easier this time, being at your parents’? Are they more supportive of you not wanting to take drugs this time? 
 

You’re in a wave at the moment. A window will come. Hang in there xx

Mirtazepine 15mg Nov 2018 -April 2019

April - Sept 2019 Mirtazepine 7.5

October 2019 - about 4 Nov 6mg Mirtazepine 

4-13 Nov anxiety & sleep problems caused by change of brand & jumping around with doses

13 Nov 2019 to 7 Dec 2019 10mg Mirtazepine 

8-10 Dec 2019 15mg Mirtazepine 

11 Dec 2019 to date 12.5mg Mirtazepine 

15 December 2019 to 13 June 2021 15mg Mirtazepine 

14 June 2021 started brass monkey Slide.  
23 August 2021 12.3mg

 

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Dear @arbor,

Your kind words mean the world to me. I know you are not having the greatest time, so the fact that you took the time to read and reply to me It is something I am very grateful for. 

 

On 10/12/2021 at 5:51 AM, arbor said:

It's hard for others who never took these drugs, or aren't getting off them, to understand what it's like for us

I know! And I understand. If I wasnt going thru this experience myself, I don't know if I would believe It. My husband is the only person Who believes in WD, but I am tired of explaining to him what is like. I know he has his own problems, and I would love to help him more. But the truth is I don't know what to do for him. I told him to go to therapy, and he said yes, but never did It. 

 

Dear @Faure,

Thanks very very much for taking the time to read and reply. You are full of wisdom.

 

On 10/12/2021 at 10:31 AM, Faure said:

wonder if one reason some of us are here is that we never learned to take care of our needs

 

So true. I've been thinking a lot about It, too. Because I have the fear that after all this WD nightmare is over, I will be just like before taking AD's: depressed, having panic attacks daily and withouth knowing what to do with my life. I need to learn how to live my own life, and is difficult to do when I was taught to be quiet and obidient.

 

On 10/12/2021 at 10:31 AM, Faure said:

I had to learn not to do all the things that I wanted to do the minute I felt better

 

Me too! After what happenned to me in September, I've realized I cant speed-up recovery.

 

On 10/12/2021 at 10:31 AM, Faure said:

Is it easier this time, being at your parents’

 

They don't believe in WD, but they allow me to do what I want to do. If I spend the day in bed, they don't tell me anything. And the truth is that is very comfortable for me, as I don't need to clean, to cook, to do the laundry... Life is easier in my hometown. The weather is still nice and if I need something everything is between a 10 minutes walk. 

 

I've been having headaches, body aches, itchy eyes, morning cortisol spikes, anxiety, and stomach issues... But still, I don't feel like I need to toughen up to not dissapoint those around me. And that is a heavy weight out of my shoulders. 

March 2019: 10mg Citalopram

April 2019: 20mg Citalopram

October/November 2019(sorry, I don't remember the exact date): 10mg of Citalopram without tapering, as suggested by my pharmacist. 

March 2020: Started "tapering", taking the 10mg of Citalopram every other day, again, following the recommendations of my pharmacist. 

April 2020: Stopped taking Citalopram.

I haven't reinstall since then. I've tried taking Magnesium a couple of times, but I found out it makes me nervous. I only take Paracetemol when the headache becomes unbearable (2gr every couple of weeks or so). 

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50 minutes ago, almuPA said:

I need to learn how to live my own life, and is difficult to do when I was taught to be quiet and obidient.

Absolutely, I was a quiet good girl, now I always say how I feel and am no longer a quiet good girl! Fortunately my best friend (male, 20 years older) quite enjoys this and encourages it! I enjoy not being a ‘good girl’ anymore - for my friend I think it’s normal for people to express themselves!  My parents, especially my father, found it much harder.  Mum is now pretty good about it but I don’t really see my father as he hasn’t been able to adjust and at the moment I chose not to put up with that. Maybe one day. It’s great that your parents are letting you be -this is vital - I’m so glad to read you are able to do exactly what you need and don’t have people making you feel guilty. Remember when you start to feel better to be careful - for ever. I have realised taking care of myself is a life long commitment to myself.

 

One of the best things I did was start meditating. I really recommend the Jon Kabat Zin 40 minute body scan. I started at lockdown 1 in the uk and it was so beneficial I do it most days. You have to do it for a while (I noticed major benefits after a year but before that it had the immediate effect of calming me. This is different when your CNS is unsettled so it might not help much with this at the moment.) to notice any benefit but it comes - ability to slow down, be more aware, notice thoughts and stop negative ones running away with you. Best of all it’s free! Looking back it’s the best thing I did in preparation for my taper, without realising it at the time!

 

Hope you start settling down soon now you’re in a more comfortable environment, take care ☺️
 

ps my cold is mostly better and I’m back at work after last week off ☺️
 

 

Mirtazepine 15mg Nov 2018 -April 2019

April - Sept 2019 Mirtazepine 7.5

October 2019 - about 4 Nov 6mg Mirtazepine 

4-13 Nov anxiety & sleep problems caused by change of brand & jumping around with doses

13 Nov 2019 to 7 Dec 2019 10mg Mirtazepine 

8-10 Dec 2019 15mg Mirtazepine 

11 Dec 2019 to date 12.5mg Mirtazepine 

15 December 2019 to 13 June 2021 15mg Mirtazepine 

14 June 2021 started brass monkey Slide.  
23 August 2021 12.3mg

 

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  • Moderator

I so appreciate your posts, @almuPAand @Faure.  You're giving me strength as I start this morning.❤️

Arbor

Zoloft: 1995 - 2015

Prozac: 2015 - 2018 (tapered from 40mg x day on July 31 to 30mg on August 31 to 20mg on September 31 to 10mg October 31 to 0mg on  December 15, 2018

Gabapentin: 2016 to 2019  (tapered from 300mg x day to 150mg on August 31, 2019 to 75mg on September 15 to 50mg on September 31 to 25ishmg on October 15 to 0mg on December 1, 2019

Enalapril: 2010 - 2019

Lipitor: 2017 -2017

Metformin: 2000 - 2020

Liothyronine: 2007 - 2019

Levothyroxine: 2000 - 

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@almuPA Sorry to hear all the stuff you are going through. While our withdrawals can be difficult on those around us, that doesn't make you selfish for expecting more support from your spouse. You are deserving of support and understanding.

Lexapro/Escitalopram history: 2012 to 2020 20 mg

July 2020 10 mg November 2020 5 mg 2/15/21 1/2 a 5mg pill ~2.5 mg 2/25/21 3/4 a 5mg pill ~3.75 mg 3/25/21 1/2 a 5mg pill ~2.5 mg

4/20/21 switched to liquid 2.8 mg, made a couple more increases over a week and a half to 3.5 mg 5/14/21 increased further up to 3.8 mg

10/1/21 3.6 mg

 

Current supplements:

Once per morning: men's multivitamin, vitamin c, selenium, zinc, magnesium chelate (133mg per pill), fish oil (1000 mg per pill)

Bedtime: cbd tincture, melatonin

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