Supplements for sleep

[oskcajga]

I've been using the exact brand that Alto suggested in the original post of this topic with success in relaxation.  I generally take 1-2 tablets before bed, and they certainly have a sedative effect that does not seem to be building any tolerance even weeks after use.  The drowsy effect does not last long, perhaps 30 minutes or so.  It does not knock me out, but it does prepare me for sleep and make the transition smoother.

 

They can be ordered from amazon.com here:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00T5KSTG8?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o06_s00

[Skyler]

They seem to be alot cheaper on seacoast.com.

[toomanymeds]

So is it a GABA antagonist?

[Altostrata]

Forget about all the hype about Lactium and GABA, please. It's the manufacturer's effort to get on the psych drug bandwagon.

[daddybuggaorange]

So affinity to GABA A receptors per all the research articles isn't a big deal? I came off klonopin last year and it was horible, so I am nervous about anything that impacts the GABA system as I do NOT want to go back "there".

[KarenB]

MSM Aka methylsulfonylmethane.  I first learned about this mineral from another mod, Fresh, who had success with it.  I've copied the following posts from her thread and mine in order to bring together our discussion and experiences with MSM. 

 

Quote

FRESH:  Posted 29 October 2015 - 05:57 PM

Well , I have a new drug and I'm just delighted with the show so far!

It's not actually a drug, but a naturally occurring mineral that is usually depleted from our food by modern production (pesticides ,preservatives).

I've been taking MSM (also known as Organic Sulphur Crystals) since last Friday, and have noticed increased energy, clearer thinking, and more energy and stamina.  Hips and knees are less tight.

It has a cumulative effect, and with continued use improves the condition of connective tissues and organs (it promotes collagen and keratin production, which strengthens hair , skin and nails).

MSM has been recommended for use during drug withdrawal because it blocks pain receptors and reduces inflammation.

There are loads of references if you search , but here is an overview  http://www.health-sc...it.com/msm.html

 

Organic Sulphur as a Versatile Healer

by Walter Last

 

MSM, dimethylsulfone or methylsulfonylmethane with the formula (CH3)2SO2 occurs naturally in many fresh foods but is lost during processing. Its main use in the body is for collagen synthesis, forming skin, blood vessels, hair and nails. Its main benefit is to keep cells, skin and blood vessels elastic, which is the attribute of youth. That is why organic sulphur is often regarded as the beauty mineral. It keeps cell walls permeable so that nutrients can freely flow into the cells and wastes and toxins can easily be removed.

 

Amino acid chains are usually linked with each other through flexible sulphur bridges. Also the oxidative energy production of cells requires reactive sulphur compounds. Without sufficient organic sulphur as in the form of MSM cells and body structures lose their elasticity and flexibility. The result are the well-known signs of aging: inelastic skin with increasing wrinkles, scar tissue, hardening arteries, varicose veins and also hardened lungs causing emphysema. Sufficient MSM is able to reverse these conditions to a significant degree, including emphysema. It is believed that the MSM in Aloe Vera is the active ingredient for repairing damaged skin.

 

MSM is used by athletes to increase stamina and minimise sore muscles. Its use for this purpose is even more widespread with racehorses and greyhounds. This effect may be mainly due to the ability of MSM to greatly increase the body's ability to eliminate metabolic residues, wastes and toxins from the cells. In a similar way it appears to help those with chronic fatigue. With this it also helps us to recuperate from severe physical and mental exhaustion. MSM reduces the effects of stress and the incidence of stress related deaths in animals

 

MSM tends to reduce or eliminate allergic reactions to foods, chemicals and inhaled allergens. It also reduces reactions to the bites of mosquitoes, bees, poisonous spiders and snakes. It lessens inflammation, pain, stiffness and swellings due to arthritis or from other musculoskeletal system disorders and helps to normalise the blood chemistry in these conditions. It also reduces inflammations of the skin and mucous membranes. MSM relieves leg and back cramps and muscle spasms, be it after periods of inactivity (night cramps) or during athletic activities.

 

Other conditions that often benefit from MSM supplementation are hot flashes (or hot flushes) as well as discomfort due to the monthly cycle, also acne, asthma, back pain, Candida, constipation, diabetes, diarrhoea, diverticulitis, gastro-intestinal ulcers, hypertension, inflammations of all kinds, itching skin, migraines, nausea, pain, stress, sunburn and wound healing. It should also be helpful with other chronic degenerative or inflammatory conditions, especially Alzheimer's disease, cancer, Crohn's disease, myasthenia gravis and Parkinson's disease. Melanoma cells of a particularly aggressive strain were treated with a 2% MSM solution. After one day of exposure the cells had become completely normal and remained so indefinitely.

 

Fingernails and hair have a high sulphur content and generally improve with MSM. It also reduces parasite infections in the intestinal and urogenital tracts. MSM appears to normalise our mental condition. Individuals on MSM tend to report increased alertness, reduced mood swings and less depression. It seems to improve the immune system and the senses of taste and smell. In addition, it neutralises the toxicity of anticholinesterase, thereby providing protection against insecticide exposure or ingestion. It also aids the liver in the detoxification of chemicals and, with this, is useful to ease drug withdrawal symptoms.

 

The Oregon Health Service University demonstrated in many years of clinical use that MSM

1.     inhibits pain impulses along nerve fibres (analgesia),

2.     lessens inflammation,

3.     increases blood supply,

4.     reduces muscle spasm,

5.     softens scar tissue.

 

How to Use MSM

MSM is a natural food ingredient and is free of unpleasant taste and odour. It is reported to be completely safe even in very high amounts. Because of its inert composition, it does not normally cause allergies or undesirable pharmacological effects. It can even safely be used to dilute blood. The body will use what it needs and remove any excess through the kidneys. The water-soluble MSM is easily absorbed and provides a therapeutically important source of organically bound sulphur.

The daily maintenance intake commonly ranges from 5 to 20 g in several divided doses. Try to adjust the dose according to your wellbeing or observed effects. You may use more or less of these commonly used amounts. Initially I suggest starting with about 1 g and increase the dosage gradually to the full amount.

The reason for a slow increase is that MSM often causes some beneficial but uncomfortable cleansing reactions. This may result in headaches, nausea, diarrhoea or weakness for a few days. If you are already on a high dose when this happens, just reduce or stop the intake until it is over. Cleansing reactions are a common and necessary part of effective natural healing methods.

If you want to overcome a specific health problem faster you may experiment with taking more than your usual maintenance dose. To spread the intake more evenly during the day you may dissolve the daily amount in a glass of fruit juice or herb tea and taking a sip now and then. The exact amount used each day is not critical. You may equate a rounded teaspoonful of the fine, white crystals as being approximately 5 g. The benefit of MSM will be enhanced by a diet high in vitamin C or with additional vitamin C supplements.

You may also use MSM externally to carry other nutrients or remedies into the skin. With arthritis or connective tissue problems or generally for skin rejuvenation, you may dissolve glucosamine, copper salicylate, sodium ascorbate, magnesium chloride and MSM in a small amount of (warm) water and aloe vera gel and rub it into the affected area, although DMSO is more effective for skin absorption. MSM in amounts of 10 to 20 grams in addition to several teaspoons of DMSO can be used as an alternative oxygen supply system to greatly increase energy. For details see Increase Your Energy.

Caution: Individuals who are sensitive to sulphites (often used as preservative) also may react to MSM and DMSO. This is usually due to a deficiency of molybdenum and can be overcome with supplementation (try 500 mcg).

 

Quote

FRESH:  Posted 01 November 2015 - 06:21 PM

Hiya Karen,  yes the MSM experiment is still going.   I started with 2mg a day.   Then I had 2 days where I weighed the wrong amount and took 0.2 mg, and now I'm taking 2mg twice a day.  It's an unusual sensation for me.  It doesn't give a racy , energized feeling like coffee or stimulants.  It's more a lack of fatigue and an ability to focus better, so that I don't need to lay down and rest after 45 minutes of doing something.   I sit on the floor a lot with the computer on the coffee table, and my knees and hips haven't been paining me when I uncurl to stand up since the MSM (and it's only a week).  I plan to continue increasing the dose slowly up to 8mg.

  

Quote

KAREN:  Posted 19 July 2016 - 05:28 PM

I decided to go see a local health coach/homeopath with the idea that I might get some fresh perspectives and a little help.  I realise we have to be careful who we see in w/d because they often just don't get w/d and can inadvertently make it worse.  So my idea was to run her ideas through my SA-knowledge sieve.  I'm so glad I went.

 

I'd been taking MSM for maybe 6 months since reading how it helped Fresh improve her symptoms, but at a minimum dose and not noticing any benefit.  The health coach suggested notching it up quite a bit, which I did gradually.  Two nights after I started taking it, I fell asleep like a child.  As in no tossing and turning, no waiting to sleep.  Then I slept through the night.  It happened the next night too, and for the handful of nights since then. 

 

It's too soon to let myself be too excited, but it sure has surprised me.  I've never had sleep come so easy like that.  I've leveled off at 3000mg per day, since when I went higher I got too activated and had w/d symptoms worsen.   Will update on whether the sleep continues to come easily.

 

Quote

KAREN:  Posted 20 July 2016 - 04:22 PM

I didn't start taking MSM specifically for sleep.  At first I just took it 'cos Fresh reported it helped with w/d symptoms, and I have a lot of respect for her knowledge.  Then, when I saw the health coach, she said she has seen it improve the health of many people she's worked with - once it is taken at a high enough dose, which can vary from person to person. 

 

I'm not being very scientific here, I have not read any studies etc, I'm just seeing how it goes for me.  It's another thing our bodies need a fair amount of, and I guess once they get it they can function better generally.  As with everything though, start low and go up slowly. 

 

Quote

KAREN:  Posted 22 July 2016 - 02:11 PM

There are differences in brands and quality.  The one I've got is from South Africa and it's called 'Real MSM' by Thresh-hold.  On the back it says:  '1000g pure, four times distilled OptiMSM (methylsulphonylmethane), Magnesium stearate, and silicon dioxide.'

 

Thinking I should start an MSM thread, but I've been reluctant because I'm not really wired for reading through studies and evaluating if they are reliable etc.  Perhaps someone else will add those.  My sleep is still very good, apart from the one night the wind picked up every loose thing outside and threw it round the place.

 

Today is the 1st August, which makes it just over two weeks of excellent sleep.  Even before w/d, even before using antidepressants, I never had sleep this good.  If you've tried it, or seen some reputable studies on it, please add to the discussion.

 

PLEASE NOTE:  As with all supplements, please start at a low dose and slowly work your way up.  And please also remember that not everybody gets the same results with the same supplements.  We are all so different.

Edited October 23, 2021 by Altostrata
merged similar topics

[JanCarol]

In the 00's, my magnificent ostopath put me on MSM.

 

He gave it to me for pain, weight gain, and overall health.  I took it for 10 years.

 

He told me to increase by 1 g per day until I got the runs, then back down.  That would be my dose.  I was on about 8 g per day (8000 mg).  He recommended Dr.'s Best.

 

When it became too expensive (it was not available in Australia at the time, and difficult to get it not as a powder, and not "bundled" in other supplements - I've always been a supplement purist - my ratios, not what some company decides is the right ratio.

 

I did not miss it when it was gone.  So.  While I've read about sulfur in the diet - and how it used to be in the soil and now the soil is depleted - I wonder - then why didn't this make a difference?  (Or did it, and I was just too drugged to notice?   I quit the MSM long before I quit the smoking, PPIs, statins and psych drugs!)

 

It's now (eek!  What happened to my purism?) bundled in my glucosamine / chondroitin supplement.

 

After reading the article on Consumer Labs, Doctor's Best is a good brand and one of the cheapest at 7c a 1500 mg tablet.  

 

In the article it mentioned tendon and muscle pain - so it might be a good thing to try again.  When I'm feeling like ADDING instead of taking away supplements!  

[JanCarol]

I just smelled my NAC (n-acetyl cysteine) tablets as I was filling my trays, and smelled strongly of rotten eggs.  I thought:  sulphur!  
Sure enough, I am getting a healthy dose of sulphur in my NAC, so I may wait before seeking out MSM.

 

Though I will consider it if I cannot address this "frail tendon" issue any other way.

[KarenB]

Thought I should add that MSM is best taken in doses evenly spread out over the morning, in case it interferes with sleep. 

 

And an update of my experience with MSM:  Still sleeping really well, with no difficulty falling asleep either. 

[downtongirl]

Karen....I am interested in this supplement as from my research it says it can help with muscle spasms, tmj, bruxism, inflammation issues and although regular doctors and naturopath doctors can pin point the cause of my inflammation I have had symptoms and side effects from inflammation for years....even before trying to quit antidepressants.  I am not sure if the years of antidepressant use has caused the inflammation or if it is just my body.  I have had very bad allergies since I was a child and still have them along with eczema and other skin inflammatory issues.

 

I am also interested because you said it helps with your sleep and saw that you suggest taking it in multiple dosages in the morning....is that correct?

[tntd]

I know this is an old thread but I was wondering if Lactium would be safe to take while tapering off of a benzo?

 

Thanks for any thoughts on this.

[KarenB]

Sorry downtongirl, for some reason I never saw your post till today.  Yes to both your questions.have

 

UPDATE:  I've now been taking MSM for 7 months, and still have had great sleep this whole time - except for two nights soon after pushing my taper a bit fast. 

 

Further thoughts:  Was it the MSM itself, or was it the fact that I gave my body something it really needed (in my case, MSM) that helped me sleep?  In that case, the particular supplement would vary from person to person.  And scurrying round trying different supplements isn't something we really recommend - too potentially activating, and too costly.    

 

Just something to consider...

[NickZ711]

I took a half of capsule and it kept me asleep until 2. I tried the same dosage the next and I was tossing all night and really tired the next day. Has anyone experienced this?

[Athena]

Hi guys, interested in this old thread as well. Swanson's won't ship the Lactium in Canada. People from Canada here who got a good lactium product elsewhere? Thanks for any input.

[Athena]

I found bioactive milkpeptides in the brand LifeExtension. They say it's the same component as Lactium. For those having a hard time to find one under the name Lactium shipped to their place...

[dj2010]

I had high hopes for milk peptides helping with my insomnia but they did the opposite and I found them activating, I tried the swansons brand seen in link below:

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0017O95SQ/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

will maybe try again in a few months as im starting to be less sensitive to supplements now, 

 

only things that help me is slow release melatonin and epsom salt baths

[Courageous]

This article has some food for thought—from a skeptical perspective it picks apart the studies done on Lactium:

 

http://www.dcscience.net/2009/11/26/lactium-more-rubbish-from-boots-the-chemists-and-a-more-serious-problem/

 

[Armorall]

@Altostrata I know this is an old thread. Does it still seem like Lactium is worth trying out?

[Altostrata]

You'll have to read it and decide for yourself.

[Armorall]

Ok

[Armorall]

Welp, I couldn't sleep last night and took one at 5am. Later my body started to heat up a lot. Not sure if it was from the peptide or not. My mind was starting to go fuzzy, so there's that. Not sure if I will try it again. 

[mickde1]

Hi  has anybody had any experience with Deep Sleep natural supplements https://www.trifectahealthco.com/product-page/deep-sleep-drops-30ml

[ChessieCat]

Have you tried Melatonin? 

 

Have you tried the other suggestions in the SA sleep/insomnia topic?

 

The big issue with using anything that is a complex is that there may be one ingredient to which you react but you will not know what it is.  Also, are all the ingredients listed?

 

It's a good idea to research the individual ingredients.  To search SA, I like to use a search engine and add site:survivingantidepressants.org to my search term.

 

And of course you can do a general internet search to find out more about them.

[lucidity]

I'm desperate for sleep so I'd like to try this stuff, but can't find it anywhere on its own anymore. The one at amazon contains 50mcg b12 which is too stimulating for me.  I ordered from seacoast months ago and they still say it's on backorder due to covid supply-chain issues. Anyone have some left over they can sell me?

 

[Mikegs96]

Hello, is this supplement addictive at all? I’m thinking about trying it out. but I’m a bit worried that it will make the withdrawal symptoms I’m already dealing with worse if I decide to stop it because it works on GABA receptors...

@Altostrata

[Altostrata]

It is not addictive. It is extremely mild.

[DazzlingCold]

On 12/11/2012 at 12:58 PM, Altostrata said:

A sleep specialist recommended My-B Tabs (Legere), a sublingual supplement, to treat my severe withdrawal-related sleep disorder. I used it nightly for more than 2 years (with melatonin) and found My-B Tabs helped relax me and initiate sleep.

 

The doctor recommended taking 1-2 tablets an hour before bed.

 

My-B Tabs, made by Legere Pharmaceuticals, contains folic acid 10mcg, vit B12 (cyanocobalamin) 50mcg, and adenosine monophosphate (AMP) 25mg. The adenosine is the active ingredient; the folic acid and B12 content are almost negligible.

 

Adenosine is a substance our bodies produce naturally throughout our daily physical activities. It builds up in your bloodstream as one of your body's chemical signals for sleep. While you are sleeping, your body removes it from your bloodstream and you're ready to start another adenosine-building day.

 

As adenosine works with the normal circadian rhythm (dawn to dark) rhythm of the body, the doctor told me not to take the supplement in the middle of the night because it will confuse your nervous system. It's supposed to imitate the natural signal to sleep after a day of activity. The idea is to get the sleep cycle back into a normal pattern.

 

From the Society for Neuroscience (PDF) web.sfn.org/skins/main/pdf/brainfacts/2008/sleep.pdf

 

Those of us suffering from withdrawal-induced sleep problems, who may have an abnormally high of the daytime activity hormone cortisol in our bodies, may benefit from an additional nudge of adenosine monophosphate to trigger sleep, as well as darkening our bedrooms to give our retinas a good nighttime signal.

 

(Caffeine acts in opposition to AMP. Don't bother to try AMP until you stop ingesting caffeine, which has a very long half-life.)

 

My-B Tabs have been promoted to treat chronic fatigue syndrome. From doing some cursory reading, I see AMP is being investigated to treat tachycardia as well as neuropathic pain in shingles and fibromyalgia.

 

The Legere product is available discounted via the Web sites for Gaines Nutrition and Village Green Apothecary.

 

Adenosine in other forms is taken by body builders, at high dosages. I checked with a knowledgeable doctor who said adenosine triphosphate aka ATP does NOT have the same effect as adenosine monophosphate aka AMP.

 

However, supplements with plain adenosine in them might be as effective as AMP.

 

There are now other adenosine monophosphate supplements available, at higher dosages than My-B Tabs, one sublingual containing 100mg adenosine, which my advisor said was a safe dosage. I would double-check to make sure supplements contain AMP and not the more common ATP. Start with a very low dose as AMP has effects on the heart and circulation.

 

General information about adenosine Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adenosine

 

Livestrong on adenosine and sleep http://www.livestrong.com/article/517781-adenosine-sleep/ :

 

Curr Top Med Chem. 2011;11(8):1047-57.

The role of adenosine in the regulation of sleep.

Huang ZL, Urade Y, Hayaishi O.

 

Source

 

Department of Molecular Behavioral Biology, Osaka Bioscience Institute, Suita, Osaka 565-0874, Japan. huangzljp@yahoo.com.cn

 

Abstract at http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21401496

See Nat Neurosci. 2002 Nov;5 Suppl:1071-5.

Sleeping with the hypothalamus: emerging therapeutic targets for sleep disorders.

Mignot E, Taheri S, Nishino S.

http://aegean.psychology.uiowa.edu/Faculty/Blumberg/Course_Docs/Seminar.2008/Readings/Mignot.2002.pdf

 

See J Neurophysiol. 2007 Jan;97(1):837-48. Epub 2006 Nov 8.

Adenosine inhibits activity of hypocretin/orexin neurons by the A1 receptor in the lateral hypothalamus: a possible sleep-promoting effect.

Liu ZW, Gao XB.

http://jn.physiology.org/content/97/1/837.full

Super helpful, thank you for all you do @Altostrata

[PsychologicalSafe15]

Which vitamins depletion cause insomnia??

 

Please we need to take this forum seriously. @Shep @ChessieCat

@Altostrata @Gabby

[PsychologicalSafe15]

Melatonin doesn't work in case of SSRI and benzo withdrawal.

[ChessieCat]

supplements-for-sleep

 

[Altostrata]

On 5/18/2022 at 5:19 AM, PsychologicalSafe15 said:

Melatonin doesn't work in case of SSRI and benzo withdrawal.

 

That is incorrect.

[Altostrata]

On 5/17/2022 at 6:09 PM, PsychologicalSafe15 said:

Which vitamins depletion cause insomnia??

 

Please we need to take this forum seriously. @Shep @ChessieCat

@Altostrata @Gabby

 

I  have no idea what you're talking about. Please do the research yourself and inform us of your findings.

 

Please do not tag me for nonessential questions.

[PsychologicalSafe15]

On 5/21/2022 at 3:55 AM, Altostrata said:

 

That is incorrect.

How much dosage do you think melatonin should be taken for benzo withdrawal??

[DazzlingCold]

On 5/20/2022 at 5:11 PM, Altostrata said:

 

I  have no idea what you're talking about. Please do the research yourself and inform us of your findings.

 

Please do not tag me for nonessential questions.

Im not a Doctor or medical professional but in what I have reas through google, it sounds like everything affects all of our systems. Personally, when I was deficient in iron, B12 and vit D, i felt more anxious and super tired and sleep didn’t help or I had a harder time wining down to actually go to sleep. I don’t know which vitamins may affect insomnia specifically, but according to what Ive read, they are all very essential in maintaining our systems working properly. My personal belief is we are depleted from minerals due to soul exploitation trying to feed an overpopulated world so it gets harder to get our nutrients from smaller amounts of fresh foods. To make matters worse, cooking food for too long and very high temperatures affects the chemical composition of them depleting then further of nutrients. (Remember this isn’t science research but personal believes I live by)

So, I personally recently  started eating a wider variety of fruits, veggies, nuts, etc… in hopes to improve all my systems. I think maybe most vitamins and minerals may affect directly or indirectly the circadian rythm and brain chemistry. 
Light is another factor you may have heard about. I used to pop things to help me sleep and when I lowered and removed some of those supplements and started to practice things that make me calm down like listening to solfeggios and turning off all blue lights and hour before bed and all orange lights 30 min before bed, I was surprised to see how my body naturally drifted off. 
Anyways, those are my thoughts based on my experience. You may be interested in researching more about substances that affect hormones that help us sleep. Im sure you will find really cool info on how everything affects everything in our body. I love that stuff!
 

[DazzlingCold]

Just now, DazzlingCold said:

Im not a Doctor or medical professional but in what I have reas through google, it sounds like everything affects all of our systems. Personally, when I was deficient in iron, B12 and vit D, i felt more anxious and super tired and sleep didn’t help or I had a harder time wining down to actually go to sleep. I don’t know which vitamins may affect insomnia specifically, but according to what Ive read, they are all very essential in maintaining our systems working properly. My personal belief is we are depleted from minerals due to soul exploitation trying to feed an overpopulated world so it gets harder to get our nutrients from smaller amounts of fresh foods. To make matters worse, cooking food for too long and very high temperatures affects the chemical composition of them depleting then further of nutrients. (Remember this isn’t science research but personal believes I live by)

So, I personally recently  started eating a wider variety of fruits, veggies, nuts, etc… in hopes to improve all my systems. I think maybe most vitamins and minerals may affect directly or indirectly the circadian rythm and brain chemistry. 
Light is another factor you may have heard about. I used to pop things to help me sleep and when I lowered and removed some of those supplements and started to practice things that make me calm down like listening to solfeggios and turning off all blue lights and hour before bed and all orange lights 30 min before bed, I was surprised to see how my body naturally drifted off. 
Anyways, those are my thoughts based on my experience. You may be interested in researching more about substances that affect hormones that help us sleep. Im sure you will find really cool info on how everything affects everything in our body. I love that stuff!
 

That was “soil exploitation”, but “souls exploitation” could be a factor as well 😂 

[KaiLee]

@Altostrata

 

Hi, I want to ask you a question.

I couldn't get any adenosine products from the US that ships to my country.

In my country, I can get only adenosine in a form of a skin care products.

Would this have a same positive effect on a sleep?

I am so desperate for sleep, and I have tried melatonin, lactium, and so on, but none helped me.

Thank you.