Ymmit: a taste of life without Paxil

[Ymmit]

Hello everyone!

 

First of, since I've been visiting this site for a while already, thanks for this open platform where I see so much understanding and support for each other.

 

I have been taking Paxil for most of my life, when I was around 14 years old I had my first encounter with overwhelming anxiety which would eventually cripple my life when I was around 17. I got prescribed with Paxil when I was around 15 and had ups and down with its effectiveness. When I was 17 I got into day therapy for half a year where my dose would gradually be built up to 60mg. From then everything looked pretty good, I was never really comfortable with taking the medication, but life was bearable and I could finally enjoy my years as a more carefree teen. Over the years I took a cold-turkey attempt to stop (bad idea) and eventually started again. In 2014 I was serious on stopping Paxil (at this time I was on 20mg a day) I consulted with my GP and came up with a tapering plan with regular evaluation points. This went pretty well, I managed to get to 5mg a day without any withdrawal symptoms. What didn't helped was that I moved during that time and got a different GP. Here the lowest amount of Paxil in tablet form is 5mg  (half a tablet of 10), my GP thought of 5mg as a homeopathic dosage and saw no problem dropping that to 0mg in a few weeks where I take 5mg every other day. I started to get the usual withdrawal symptoms; stressed, brain-zaps, very easily aggravated, depression. This led to a burn-out from which I needed a year to recover. It was now 2017 and I started taking Paxil again and my life went back to 'normal'.

 

In 2018 I started to experience  problems with my eye-sight. I had a blurry patches in my central vision that made reading very hard. Since I am working in IT staring at screens all day this was quite an inconvenience. I went to the GP and had my eyes tested, no cause was found. Conclusion was that it is due to Paxil. Around the same time my cognitive abilities also started to decline, my memory recollection became bad to the point where I felt I could no longer work on my previous level. During my burn-out period I made some pretty big changes in my life, one of them was the intention to stop Paxil for good. This was all good, I had a new fire burning and a perspective on a better life. From 2018 to 2019 I went down from 20mg to 5mg. Over the course of 7 months I went down from 5mg to 0mg with liquid Paxil. This decrease went pretty smoothly, when I was nearing 1mg p/d I experienced my first panic attack in years, thankfully it was in a very safe place...Not! I was zip-lining with my colleagues from work where you had this harness on that tied you to a cable from which you couldn't detach from 5m high in a tree. Horrible place to be when having a panic attack! I  But, of course I survived and kindly passed on the next course with some excuse. This experience shook me up quite a bit. I was getting more and more stressed. I thought it was work, a 2 week holiday was glinting in the horizon and I usually start feeling more exhausted when salvation is near. For the first week I couldn't relax, I felt bad, everything annoyed me. I was being an ass to my wife and the kid. But, being as my wife is the most amazing person in the universe, we talked a lot and eventually I came to the realization that it was not work, but withdrawal from Paxil. Over the course of a number of weeks these withdrawal symptoms subsided and I felt better. But since two weeks the frequency of the panic attacks went up and also the intensity...

 

This week was my worst week. I feel like I am that scared boy of 14 again. It started last monday. My brothers girlfriend mom passed away and we (my wife and I) really wanted to show our support by being there. I was feeling already pretty tense by the thought of having to drive there (1h 10m drive). It would be in the evening and since winter is approaching it gets dark pretty early again. The dark makes me feel more uncomfortable. It was horrible, I was in constant fight or flee mode, my wife pulled me through this and we managed, but I was exhausted. The following day I felt bad, super tense. We talked and decided that I should talk to someone about this. My life was being crippled again...On Wednesday I have my free day from work and talked to the GP,  explained the situation and she made a referral to a psychologist, but it take around 40 days before I can expect my first visit. Wednesday evening was horrible. My wife started feeling bad and thought she had a fever, I panicked. What if she had the coronavirus, I didn't feel like I am now in the state of supporting her if she gets sick and dealing with this panic attacks while having corona scared the hell out of me. I eventually managed to calm down a bit that night by focusing on my breathing, but woke up in the early morning and panic started again. I felt a combination of de realization where everything looked different to me and felt like I was on the edge of completely losing control. It was like this scary shadow waiting in the back of my mind to take control. I felt so bad knowing that the only safe place, our house is now also a place where I experience panic attacks. During the day on Thursday I managed to take back some control realizing I was continuously hyperventilating. By focusing on my breathing I was able to calm down. I found some nice apps for my phone which helped a lot during these attacks (I wish this existed when I was young!). Yesterday I again had a panic attack after watching a movie, it seems like everything has so much more impact on me and can destabilize me quickly. I do feel it building up better now, it feels like fountain originating from my gut and going upwards in my body. Once I feel that I start focusing on my breathing which helps to not let the panic take over my mind completely. Yesterday evening I also first had the feeling that I could observe my panic attack and rationality look at it which feels like a big achievement. I read about accepting anxiety and through practice being able to observe it and not let it control me anymore. I almost discovered the DARE response book and app which looks interesting.

 

I feel a bit torn right now between wanting to go back to my 'safe' live on Paxil or push through. Since two days ago my perception is changed, I feel different and I don't understand why that happened so drastically. I don't feel the same as I used to and that scares me. Is it going to pass or is this how I actually should feel and perceive the world? I already started to enjoy some of the positive changes of live without medication, but I am scared that this is just the beginning of a heap of negative ones that are just lurking around the corner.

 

I am sorry if this introduction is a bit too much of a wall of text. But I think you kindly for taking your time and reading through it!

 

Thanks,

 

Tim

[Gridley]

Welcome to SA, Ymmit.  Thank you for completing your signature.

 

Your taper from 20mg to 10mg and from 10 to 5 was what we recommend (10% of current dose every four weeks), but your 20% taper of the last 5mg was a good bit faster than we recommend, which would account for the derealization and panic attacks, which are common withdrawal symptoms.  

 

What is withdrawal syndrome.

 

Daily Checklist of Antidepressant Withdrawal Symptoms (PDF) 

 

When we take psychiatric medications, the CNS (central nervous system) responds by making changes over the months and years we take the drug(s). When the medication is discontinued, the CNS has to undo all the changes it made. Rebuilding the neurotransmitter production and reactivating the receptor and transporter cells takes time -- during that rebuilding process symptoms occur.  

 

Paxil is one of the more difficult drugs to taper, especially at the lower doses.  Some things to consider regarding whether or not to re-start Paxil:

1.  You've managed to get to zero and are still functioning, though with some unpleasant symptoms.  That's an accomplishment.

2.  You've tapered to zero twice.  Every time we go on and off a drug our systems become more sensitized.  That means that if you went back on the Paxil, there's no guarantee it will work the way it did before.  Your nervous system is a different nervous system than in 2014 when your first tapered Paxil and in 2017 when you restarted it.

3.  In you do reinstate (start taking it again), our recommendation would be that you reinstate a very small dose, not anywhere near the original pre-taper dose.  Because your system has been sensitized by withdrawal, taking too high a dose dose could overwhelm your nervous system.  Please read:

About reinstating and stabilizing to reduce withdrawal symptoms. -- at least the first page of the topic

 

If you want to reinstate, let us know and we can suggest a reinstatement dosage.  Please don't reinstate without letting make that suggestion.  Because you've tapered twice to zero (thus sensitizing your system), and because of the particular difficulties of getting off Paxil, I'd suggest you consider staying off the drug.  There's no guarantee at this point that going back on the drug will work for you as it has in the past.   

 

11 hours ago, Ymmit said:

I already started to enjoy some of the positive changes of live without medication, but I am scared that this is just the beginning of a heap of negative ones that are just lurking around the corner.

 

There are going to be ups and downs.  That's part of going off these powerful drugs.  To me, the goal of being drug-free is a very worthy goal.

 

The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

These links explain the pattern of healing.  It can take a while but you will heal.

 

 

Brain Remodelling 

 

Video:  Healing From Antidepressants - Patterns of Recovery

 

We don't recommend a lot of supplements on SA, as many members report being sensitive to them due to our over-reactive nervous systems, but two supplements that we do recommend are magnesium and omega 3 (fish oil). Many people find these to be calming to the nervous system. 

 

Magnesium, nature's calcium channel blocker 

 

Omega-3 fatty acids (fish oil) 

 

Add in one at a time and at a low dose in case you do experience problems. Get supplements that ae single ingredient (not mixed with other types of supplements).

 

This is your Introduction topic, where you can ask questions and connect with other members.  We're glad you found your way here.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Ymmit]

Hi Gridley,

 

Thank you so much for taking the time to read and reply to my introduction!

 

Yes, from what I have been reading here I totally underestimated how important it is to taper correctly, I should have done more research before starting it on my own. I didn't realize that there is no guarantee that if I would reinstate that the medication would have the same effect on me. Your suggestion of staying of the medication makes sense. Even though it is hard now it is still bearable and I am still able to function. Another important realization I had thanks to a story I read on this site that there is a possibility of becoming insensitive to the medication and having to go through this at a time that is not of our choosing. It is also very reassuring to read that I am experiencing common withdrawal symptoms and that these will fade away with time.

 

Again, thank you so much for your advise, the reading material and the reassuring words.

[Hanna72]

Hi @Ymmit

Welcome to SA from me too.

I wanted to reach out to you and let you know that I totally understand how you feel. I also had the most difficult time after I had reached zero with Paxil. 
The good news is it Will get better. 
Our central nervous system is very sensitive after being on this drug for many years, and our brain has some remodelling to do, so patience and time is key.

I can see you are already using some coping skills like breathing and the DARE approach which is a good way to start, well done to you.
Panic attacks are the worst but it CAN be beaten with practice and change in thinking patterns.
It is so important to use coping skills to build up your resilience and help this process and your body along the way. I have had to try many things  and some work better then others but eventually you will figure out which one works best for you.

One thing that has helped me is listening to my body. Even though it is frustrating not being able to do some things, accepting the current situation can play a big role in the recovery. Be gentle to yourself. 
Our bodies are amazing machines and have faith that it is doing everything to heal you. 
I want to congratulate you on being drug free. That’s a huge accomplishment and you should be so proud 💪
One day at a time is what we have, before we know it we can face all obstacles along our way, cause beating Paxil makes us unstoppable 

All the best to you.

[Ymmit]

Hi @Hanna72!

 

Thank you so much for your time to read my post and kind words!

I am still very much in the early phase of figuring out what is happening and learning what has an effect on me, but I do notice that I feel very sensitive and it doesn't take a lot to upset me at the moment. I am trying to keep away from things(e.g. reading/watching news) that have this effect on me for now while still doing as much of the normal activities (working, going out for groceries, driving to get the kid to and from school, etc). Harder activities I try to build up again, taking small steps. One day at a time I guess that is what you mean by  listening to your body and being gentle.

 

I do wonder if this withdrawal or if this is just me dealing with feelings without having Paxil to numb it down and that I now have to learn to truly beat this crippling anxiety.

 

All the best to you too! And thank you again!

[Gridley]

38 minutes ago, Ymmit said:

 

I do wonder if this withdrawal or if this is just me dealing with feelings without having Paxil to numb it down and that I now have to learn to truly beat this crippling anxiety.

 

It could be both.  There's really no way to know.  Anxiety is definitely one of the most common withdrawal symptoms.  Here are some links to help you cope with anxiety.  The last link about the restorative yoga pose I've found very helpful in dealing with anxiety.

 

Audio:  How to Recover from Anxiety - Dr Claire Weekes
 

VIDEO:  Peace from Nervous Suffering - Claire Weekes (1 hour) (http://sendvid.com/vgquc1dg)
 

Anxiety Stuff - all kinds of stuff about anxiety attacks and things that help …

 

10 minute Restorative Yoga for Relaxation | Up the wall

 

[Hanna72]

@Ymmit

You are welcome. 

You might want to read up on this>

 

33 minutes ago, Ymmit said:

I am trying to keep away from things(e.g. reading/watching news

Thats also what I had to do, still do if I feel super sensitive. 

 

I also would like to recommend to you a youtube channel called the lovely grind, about a man who has thrived after stopping paxil. He is full of positivity, and has helped me tremendously during my darkest times.

I will leave a link for one of his videos>

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBQ9L_ehiSE

 

 

Again all the best to you.

 

 

 

 

[Ymmit]

Thank you Gridley and Hanna! I really liked the "Anxiety stuff" blog and the videos of The lovely grind.

 

Just a small update on my current situation. Last week was a bit better. I had some morning anxiety for most of the week and during the day it really fluctuates. Last time I was wondering if this my increased anxiety was because I was no longer numbed down by the medication or if it was withdrawal. I am more confident that it is the latter as I don't always feel increased anxiety for triggers that did cause anxiety in the past (when I was young, but also on day to day basis). Evenings are harder for me, as soon as it gets dark I start to feel different, more introverted and that makes it harder for me to relax. I am not sure yet what I can do to make this easier. I also think I am struggling a bit with the fear of experiencing anxiety since most of my panic attacks are in the evening. 

 

I stopped drinking caffeine in the morning, I only have some after lunch and reducing this has helped me a lot. Tea is helping me a lot to relax too.

Symptoms I am experiencing constantly (as it might comfort somebody to read these, it does have this effect on me at least): 

- Derealisation

- Increased sensitivity to stressors

- Less appetite

- Wobbly knees

- Weird perception of time

- Troubles focusing and problem solving (calculations/general logic)

- Some sleep loss (I used to be a big fan of taking a nap after work or even a power nap during work, but this is not helping me anymore).

 

This is effecting my work, but I am trying to not stress about it. Instead I am trying to compensate by working a bit in the weekend, talk more to colleagues and wife for advice on certain assignments on work, writing down almost everything that I am doing.  

 

 

 

[Ymmit]

Hi all,

 

Yesterday I felt quite ok. I had some things that stressed me, but eventually managed to calm down. When I woke up this morning I felt different, as the derealisation shifted. That made a bit more anxious, but it also felt better. I felt more confident without much background anxiety. During the afternoon I had some stuff occurred to me that stressed me quite a bit and soon after I had pretty bad panic attack that felt really different from the ones I had before. It lasted for around a hour and a half and I was not able to control it through breathing exercises as I used to be able to. Is this typical for the window and waves pattern? Abrupt changes, thinking it is going better (this morning) and then new struggles (in my case different anxiety)?

 

I also noticed that my sense of smell has increased since I stopped taking Paxil.

[Hanna72]

@Ymmit

9 minutes ago, Ymmit said:

s this typical for the window and waves pattern? Abrupt changes, thinking it is going better (this morning) and then new struggles (in my case different anxiety)?

Yeb this is very common in wd. 
I have had wave and a window come in at the same day.
As time goes by, the windows will come more frequently and slowly stay a little bit longer each time. 
It’s also a good reminder to ease our frustration to think of those waves as a time for more repairing for ourselves and look at them as a necessity for our healing.
Hang in there 

 

 

[Ymmit]

Thank you for your post Hanna! I needed to read this yesterday again as a new wave started.

 

Yesterday I almost had a full symptom free day! I didn't struggle so much with doing my daily job, I was free of dizziness, finally had some normal appetite and most importantly no background anxiety. This lasted until the evening when I started to feel very anxious and again had a shift in the derealization. Again I couldn't really calm myself down, at some point I just fell asleep and woke up this morning with the same derealization as yesterday evening. I think I am starting to see the window and waves pattern. My previous window was at the 8th of November, and the last one was at the 20th which lasted around 10 hours. I just came up with the windows and wave index number of 28,8 (is this a thing? The ratio between wave hours and window hours). Anyway, I think it might help to have some metric and to hopefully see it go down over the coming time.

 

I ordered magnesium and fish oil yesterday with the help of the information on this forum. I think that I will start with the magnesium first and see how that works for me the coming week.

 

 

 

[Ymmit]

An update at the last day of this year:

 

The magnesium is helping me a lot with reducing the anxiety and, to some extent, with the derealisation. When I am in a wave and feel that I need it I take one or two times a day 200mg magnesium citrate dissolved in water.

 

Since my last update I had 3 windows. Two of them lasted around 2 days, but the last one lasted a whopping 9 days. That was a great relief and gave me a longer peek of how life will be when I am through this withdrawal nightmare. During that last window I had a day on which I needed to go out and I felt genuinely excited in way that I only remember feeling when I was a kid (the pre-medicated me). A few days ago a new wave started and I am experiencing dizziness, derealisation, feeling down and generally unwell again. The feeling of anxiety is less compared to previous waves thankfully. 

 

I am now almost six months clear of medication and these last 3 months have been particularly hard, but I am finally seeing some progress in the right direction now. I probably still have a long road ahead of me considering I have been on this drug for so long, but getting there eventually.

[DutchMaddy]

Mooi Tim!!

[Ymmit]

Hi all!

 

I thought it was time to give a bit of an update on how things are going since my last update 4 1/2 months ago.

Since the new year has started I haven't really experienced this neuro-anxiety anymore, I still have situational anxiety from time to time, but that can be clearly linked to my anxiety disorder that re-surfaced after stopping my medication.

 

In the first two months of the year I've mainly struggled with feelings of depression and apathy without any clear windows/waves pattern. This went better during march and april and I feel pretty stable since. My derealisation and dizzyness has cleared, but I still have some brainfog and problems with my memory, though I feel that this is slowly improving as well. I have been getting therapy (CBT) for my anxiety disorder which is helping me tremendously. I am also getting more comfortable with the real me (as opposed to the medicated me)and learning to understand myself better.

 

So things are looking pretty good thankfully. I am almost nine months clear of medication now and worried about the dreaded 8th or 9th month wave that many people have experienced. But yeah, not much I can do about it anyway just have to wait and see.  

 

[DutchMaddy]

So happy for you my friend!🌹