Meez: withdrawal

[Meez]

Hi 

I was on citalopram for 12 years, it wasn’t working anymore & I was on the highest dose, doc told me to decrease over a 2 week period then start duloxetine omg I’ve never felt so ill on duloxetine, came off that ended up taking nothing really ill , then I tried sertraline 150mg down to 100mg due to headaches & now I’m coming off these aswel cos I don’t find they are helping at all  down to 50mg for 2 weeks then venlafaxine my heads a mess, my stomach is in bits have had diarrhoea all week is this normal withdrawal? 

[Meez]

(Meez posted an image so I have transcribed it below for easier reading - original image has been retained in a hidden post down below)

 

Hi thanks for the add, I was on citalopram for 12 years, 40mg doc told me 2 weeks withdrawal then started duloxetine this was so bad … came off that and didn’t take anything for few weeks big mistake.. started sertraline increasing to 150mg I am now weaning off this down to 50mg, constant diarrhoea is this a side effect? Also I’m due to start venlafaxine Monday any advice for these awful side effects…

 

Edited November 4, 2020 by ChessieCat
transcribed image

[Gridley]

Welcome to SA. Meez.  Please don't start any more Introduction topics.  Only one introduction topic per member.

 

To give members the best information, we ask them to summarize their medication history in a signature -- drugs, doses, dates, and discontinuations & reinstatements, in the last 12-24 months particularly.

 

Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature.

 

You are experiencing withdrawal due to your very fast taper of citalopram and  likely an adverse reaction to duloxetine (meaning the drug is poison to your system).  Your symptoms are typical or "normal" in withdrawal.  Doctors know nothing about withdrawal or safe tapering, which is why this site exists.  The diarrhea could be a side effect to the Zoloft or a withdrawal symptom.

 

What is withdrawal syndrome.

 

Daily Checklist of Antidepressant Withdrawal Symptoms (PDF) 

 

When we take psychiatric medications, the CNS (central nervous system) responds by making changes over the months and years we take the drug(s). When the medication is discontinued, the CNS has to undo all the changes it made. Rebuilding the neurotransmitter production and reactivating the receptor and transporter cells takes time -- during that rebuilding process symptoms occur.  

 

Regarding starting Effexor, we don't recommend trying another drug to deal with the negative effects of previous drugs. We're a site for going off drugs and helping members deal with withdrawal.

 

We don't recommend a lot of supplements on SA, as many members report being sensitive to them due to our over-reactive nervous systems, but two supplements that we do recommend are magnesium and omega 3 (fish oil). Many people find these to be calming to the nervous system. 

 

Magnesium, nature's calcium channel blocker 

 

Omega-3 fatty acids (fish oil) 

 

Add in one at a time and at a low dose in case you do experience problems. Get supplements that are single ingredient (not mixed with other types of supplements).

 

This is your Introduction topic, where you can complete your drug signature, ask questions and connect with other members.  We're glad you found your way here.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 4, 2020 by Gridley

[ChessieCat]

MOD NOTE:  This post was made in a new topic before Gridley responded so I'm drawing attention to the extra information which has been provided.

 

6 hours ago, Meez said:

Hi thanks for the add, I was on citalopram for 12 years, 40mg doc told me 2 weeks withdrawal then started duloxetine this was so bad … came off that and didn’t take anything for few weeks big mistake.. started sertraline increasing to 150mg I am now weaning off this down to 50mg, constant diarrhoea is this a side effect? Also I’m due to start venlafaxine Monday any advice for these awful side effects…

Edited November 4, 2020 by ChessieCat

[Altostrata]

Welcome, Meez.

 

It sounds like you got severe withdrawal syndrome from going off citalopram in January 2020 and the other drugs haven't corrected it. This is "normal" for withdrawal when the doctor botches the tapering process.

 

Did you feel better when you were taking sertaline, except for the headaches? Do you have any sertraline left? Do you have any citalopram left?

 

Reinstatement of a very small amount of citalopram, such as 1mg, (or sertraline, if it helped) may help your withdrawal syndrome, which appears to be your chief problem now, not "depression". Citalopram comes in a prescription liquid to enable taking very small amounts.

 

The objective now is to reduce your withdrawal syndrome, not treat "depression". Your doctor likely doesn't know anything about this.

 

 

[Meez]

Ok thanks for the advice, but the depression is still there? 

[ChessieCat]

What do you mean be depression?

 

Please describe the symptoms you have.  Instead of using the catch-all term "depression" which can mean different things to different people, describe what it feels like.

 

Please read these:

 

Is it withdrawal or relapse?  Or something else?

How do I know it's withdrawal and not relapse?

 

And this:

 

On 10/16/2017 at 12:27 PM, baroquep said:

• Are these experiences solely experiences that were around before you ever took SSRIs, or do they include new elements as well? → If any new or different elements are present, a withdrawal reaction is very likely.
• If nothing is new, are these experiences expressing exactly as they did before you ever took SSRIs, in terms of their intensity, what provokes them, how long they last, and so forth? → If there are differences, a withdrawal reaction is more probable.
• How soon after a dose reduction or drug discontinuation did new or worsening problems occur? Days, weeks, months, or longer? → “Relapse” usually takes weeks, months, or longer to show up whereas withdrawal symptoms more often begin within just days, weeks, or the first month or so.
• If taken shortly after a previous dose reduction or full discontinuation, does a reinstatement of the previous dose of your SSRI make things any better? → If reinstatement resolves newly appearing or worsening symptoms, they were most likely a withdrawal reaction.

 

[ChessieCat]

Did you look at this list of withdrawal symptoms?

 

Nos 1-8 are under the heading "Mimic Depression"

 

Daily Checklist of Antidepressant Withdrawal Symptoms (PDF) 

[Meez]

Yes very interesting, I just want to feel normal as can be again & even when I’m on antidepressants I still have anxiety outbursts & tearfulness. The melancholy feelings are sad I wish I was back at that place .. so I take it this site is not a fan of Antidepressants? 

[ChessieCat]

SA is not anti-antidepressants.  It's up to an individual to decide if they want to stay on a drug.  However SA's focus is on helping members lower their drug burden/get off their drugs using a harm reduction approach.  SA one of only a few sites which do this.

 

I suggest you listen to this podcast (~45 minutes) which was made public a few days ago.  It is an interview with Altostrata, this site's founder, and she talks about how her own experience with withdrawal syndrome and her consultations with many medical professionals who would not believe that her symptoms were from going of an antidepressant, led her to starting this site which began in 2011.  The information and support of SA has helped many members.

 

See this topic which contains SA's mission Post #2:  about-survivingantidepressantsorg

 

After my own experience and what I learned after finding SA I believe that psychiatric drugs are prescribed much too readily and that the majority of people would be better served by receiving appropriate counselling and being taught non drug techniques, life coping skills, self soothing, self talk, CBT etc and that drugs should only be prescribe as a last resort once other methods have been tried.  I believe that if I had learned these when I was young I would not have resorted to an AD.

 

I will tell you what happened to me, which might help you to understand what affect these drugs have on our brain:

 

Note:  This happened 5 years ago.  I am now 63.

 

I reduced my Pristiq from 100mg to 50mg and for 2 weeks I experienced severe cog fog, and even walking took my whole concentration.  I joined SA but didn't updose as suggested because I was trying, through the brain fog, to learn about what was happening.  A couple of days after joining I got to the stage that I was unable to type.  Having been a typist for 40+ years I knew that something was really wrong.  I was very thankful for SA's suggestion.  I went and took extra Pristiq.  Astoundingly after only about 4 hours (not days) I was able to type again and the brain fog was lifting.  Because I had a benchmark I knew that it was because of the drug.

 

And with the advertising that pharmaceutical companies are now allowed to do, people are under the impression that ADs are reasonable harmless and will solve our problems.

 

Gwen Olsen was a pharmaceutical representative for 15 years:

 

Interview:  Confessions of an Rx Drug Pusher (51 minutes Gwen Olsen - ex pharmaceutical representative)
 

Video:  Ex-Big Pharma Rep:  We’re Trained To Misinform -The Drugs ARE Dangerous (6 minute video)
 

Video:  Ex-Big Pharma Rep:  Manipulating Doctors to Sell More Drugs (10 minute video)

 

 

Also:

 

Antidepressants and the Placebo Effect by Irving Kirsch (link to full article)

Abstract:

Antidepressants are supposed to work by fixing a chemical imbalance, specifically, a lack of serotonin in the brain.  Indeed, their supposed effectiveness is the primary evidence for the chemical imbalance theory.  But analyses of the published data and the unpublished data that were hidden by drug companies reveals that most (if not all) of the benefits are due to the placebo effect.  Some antidepressants increase serotonin levels, some decrease it, and some have no effect at all on serotonin.  Nevertheless, they all show the same therapeutic benefit.  Even the small statistical difference between antidepressants and placebos may be an enhanced placebo effect, due to the fact that most patients and doctors in clinical trials successfully break blind.  The serotonin theory is as close as any theory in the history of science to having been proved wrong.  Instead of curing depression, popular antidepressants may induce a biological vulnerability making people more likely to become depressed in the future.

Excerpt:

How Did These Drugs Get Approved?
....
The FDA requires two adequately conducted clinical trials showing a significant difference between drug and placebo.  But there is a loophole:  there is no limit to the number of trials that can be conducted in search of these two significant trials.  Trials showing negative results simply do not count.  Furthermore, the clinical significance of the findings is not considered.  All that matters is that the results are statistically significant.
....
(NB:  emphasis in abstract and excerpt are mine)

[Meez]

Thanks for this Very informative ❤️ Also from my experience doctors readily prescribe AD because lack of resources e.g. waiting list for counselling is 2 years CBT also so because none of these resources are available then they resort to the ADs which I have to say did help me after having post-natal depression 

[ChessieCat]

10 hours ago, Meez said:

waiting list for counselling is 2 years CBT

 

But these days these is a lot of self help resources available online.  Obviously having a counsellor is usually more effective, but there are ways that people can try to help themselves if they know about things and where to look.  Doctors could always provide this information.

 

The online CBT course that I did was a supported course during the 8 weeks and then for 3 months afterwards, but I found that the way the course was set up that I didn't need the support.

[Altostrata]

If you decide you want to live drug-free, you'll have to figure out a way to manage your emotional symptoms. Not every case of "depression" requires drug treatment.

 

If you have odd symptoms, it is more likely you have withdrawal syndrome from going off citalopram. If you would like further counseling, please answer the questions in this post

 

[Meez]

I am going to try 37.5mg of venlafaxine on Monday & if I don’t feel this is helping I am coming off antidepressants completely 

[Meez]

Tapered off sertraline

 

Hi I’m off my antidepressants now & have been for 2 weeks, can’t stop crying, can’t cope with too much noise & really short fused. Am currently off work, spoke to my doctor on phone regarding wether the way I’m feeling could be discontinuation, she seemed to dis this & said it’s short life & takes about a month I am really confused as most psychiatrists say this also but yet this group says it can take months or years.. now who am I supposed to listen to obviously the professionals would say them as they follow nice guidelines etc please help 

 

Edited December 12, 2020 by ChessieCat
added topic title

[ChessieCat]

due to start venlafaxine on nov 9th 2020 

 

Q:  What was the last dose of sertraline you took and when?

 

Please update your drug signature showing all the dates and doses with the drug name so that we can clearly see what changes you have made.

 

Q:  Have you started venlafaxine?

 

If yes, what dose and when?

 

 

[Meez]

My last dose was 25mg on 22nd November & I haven’t started venlafaxine but very tempted as I don’t know how long I can go on up & down not knowing who I am & what’s happening 

[Altostrata]

Still need the answer to this:

On 11/4/2020 at 5:06 PM, Altostrata said:

Did you feel better when you were taking sertaline, except for the headaches? Do you have any sertraline left? Do you have any citalopram left?

 

 

[Meez]

Yea I have sertraline left! 

[ChessieCat]

Meez please answer the other questions which Alto asked:

 

On 11/5/2020 at 12:06 PM, Altostrata said:

 

Did you feel better when you were taking sertaline, except for the headaches?

 

Do you have any sertraline left?

 

Do you have any citalopram left?