leoni: escitalopram cold turkey

[leoni]

Hello, i wish i could find before this forum. First i wish you all a happy life. I was using escitalopram for more than 4 month for anxiety disorder and decided to stop cold turkey because i didn't see any changes in me. First days after quitting were hard but they passed, now after 5 weeks i feel anxiety coming back. I read alot of stuff here and on facebook and i am freaked out about withdrawal symptoms that come after months after quitting. I don't know what to do, to wait or begin taking the drug? I feel light headed and anxious and alot of fear. help

[Gridley]

Welcome to SA, leoni.

 

To give members the best information, we ask them to summarize their medication history in a signature -- drugs, doses, dates, and discontinuations & reinstatements, in the last 12-24 months particularly.

 

Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature.

 

Two questions:

 

1.  What are your current symptoms?

 

2.  What dose of Escitalopram were you taking when you cold-turkeyed?

 

Reinstatement of a very small dose of the original drug is the only known way to help alleviate withdrawal syndrome.  The only alternative is to try and wait out the symptoms and manage as best you can until your central nervous system returns to homeostasis.  Unfortunately no one can give you an exact timeline as to when you will start feeling better and while some do recover relatively easily, for others it can take many months or longer.  

 

Reinstatement isn't a guarantee of diminished symptoms for everyone but it's the best tactic available.  You're still in the time period where reinstatement predictably works, up to 3 months after last dose.  We usually suggest a much smaller reinstatement dose than your last dose--not your previous dose.  These drugs are strong, your system has become sensitized and If you take too high a dose it may be too much for your brain.   Once you've stabilized on the reinstated dosage, which can take several months,  you can begin a 10% per month taper down to zero.  

 

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

Please read:

 

About reinstating and stabilizing to reduce withdrawal symptoms. -- at least the first page of the topic

 

If you are interested in reinstatement, please let us know and we can suggest a dosage to reinstate.  Do not reinstate without letting us suggest a dosage.

 

 

We don't recommend a lot of supplements on SA, as many members report being sensitive to them due to our over-reactive nervous systems, but two supplements that we do recommend are magnesium and omega 3 (fish oil). Many people find these to be calming to the nervous system. 

 

Magnesium, nature's calcium channel blocker 

 

Omega-3 fatty acids (fish oil) 

 

Add in one at a time and at a low dose in case you do experience problems. Get supplements that are single ingredient (not mixed with other types of supplements).

 

This is your Introduction topic, where you can complete your drug signature, answer my two questions, ask your own questions and connect with other members.  We're glad you found your way here.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[leoni]

It's been a couple of days that I feel anxious, heavy breathing, fear. When I quitt i took 20 

escitalopram and 1 mg clonazepam

[manymoretodays]

Hi leoni,

What is liberian?  It's listed in your signature.

 

Do you have any escitalopram on hand right now?

 

Thank you.

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

[leoni]

No I don't have any escitaloapram, librian is librium a sedative.

[Altostrata]

Welcome, leoni.

 

What does your current anxiety feel like? How's your sleep?

 

How did you feel while you were taking escitalopram? When and how did you go off Librium?

 

Did you also quit clonazepam on October 5?

 

 

[leoni]

Hello, my anxiety has increased 4 days ago, and feel very scared, very sad, i am ready to cry but I cannot. I sleep well, only the second day after quitted both clonazepam and escitaloapram did not sleep was terrible brain zaps, apnea, and other stuff I don't remember. I took librium only 10 days in the bigining 26 may till 6 June and I quit as doctor said and took only escitaloapram 20 mg. I didn't feel good when I took escitaloapram all day scared anxious, as my doctor said i should be patient and i waited till 3 month and no changes i was feeling depressed. The 4 month i took 20 mg escitaloapram and 1 mg clonazepam. I was feeling really good, only some headeche at night. The doctor said i should quit clonazepam and continue only escitaloapram. I quit both.

[manymoretodays]

Hi leoni,

And thank you for attending to questions asked.

 

Ah.....thank goodness for sleep.  I am glad that is going okay now.

 

How is today going or how did it go today? 

 

I think you are experiencing some WD(withdrawal) now.  From both the escitalopram and the clonazepam.  The process is similar with both SSRI's(the type of AD-antidepressant you took) and benzo's (the clonazepam and Librium(liberian)).

 

What is withdrawal syndrome?

Brain remodeling

 

When we take medications, the CNS (central nervous system) responds by making changes over the months and years we take the drug(s). When the medication is discontinued, the CNS has to undo all the changes it made.  The CNS likes stability. Rebuilding the neurotransmitter production and reactivating the receptor and transporter cells takes time -- during that rebuilding process symptoms occur. And sleep is really important during withdrawal. 

 

Are you doing okay with reading the English here? 

 

I've also put you in for conferring, as far as reinstatement goes now.  So we can get some more ideas.  Gridley gave you some of the information on that already, to take a look at, in the first post replying to you.  And then, we usually reinstate at a very small dose, rather than anything close to what you had been taking. 

 

Right now, you might begin to practice some non-drug coping to help with any symptoms:

Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms

and a whole indexed list of topics in the 1st post ^

neuroemotions

The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

We tend to heal from the drugs in a windows and waves way, windows are when you are doing pretty well, waves are when symptoms of WD arise.

 

And don't let this overwhelm you.  You'll have the topics here on your Introduction page to refer back to, I don't expect you to read everything, right now.  And I don't want you to get all fearful.

 

Again, how is today or how did today go for you?

 

Best, and L, P, H, and G,

mmt

[leoni]

Thank you for what you write. Yesterday and today I am feeling better, have anxiety again and some depressed feeling similar as I quit smoking or after a heavy drink alcohol. I get this feelings all the day but in the afternoon they are more intense, depresion the most. At night i am ok i sleep well. I fear the depresion and hope it will pass. 

[Altostrata]

leoni, how did you feel when you went off Librium on June 6?

 

Were you taking only escitalopram from June 7 to September 6? How did you feel in this period?

 

As manymoretodays said, it is likely you are having surges of withdrawal symptoms, which can feel like intense anxiety or depression. These are not psychiatric symptoms, they are withdrawal symptoms and can fade in time.

 

It sounds like you have been feeling better over the last couple of days?

[leoni]

Hello Altostada, from June 7 till September 6 i took only escitaloapram and i was feeling anxious again the new thing was that I had some strong depressed moment. I went to the doctor and i thing we misunderstood each other, she thought I was having panic attacks. After taking clonazepam i was well didn't have anxiety at all. The only problem was back head pain. Anyway i quit them all. Now someday i am better some day i am bad. Had some teeth pain 2 days ago and I took ketoprofen, the teeth pain was gone but my anxiety come back again. I don't know how much time till it goes away, 6 weeks have passed. Thank you all

[leoni]

Yesterday I was having a panic attack, all day was so hard, think i was going crazy. I talked to my doc on phone he told me to start taking bromazepam 10 drops 3 times a day. I didn't get the medicine i don't want to start it, i am very scared, suffering alot. I want to know if I make patience and don't take bromazepam will this goes away? I have read all about waves and windows but this time the waves where very strong. Thank you all for the support.

[Shep]

On 11/7/2020 at 5:04 AM, leoni said:

Thank you for what you write. Yesterday and today I am feeling better, have anxiety again and some depressed feeling similar as I quit smoking or after a heavy drink alcohol. I get this feelings all the day but in the afternoon they are more intense, depresion the most. At night i am ok i sleep well. I fear the depresion and hope it will pass. 

 

Leoni, how often are you having alcohol? Please note that alcohol works on the same neurotransmitters as benzodiazepines do, so it's best to avoid alcohol completely until you're fully healed. 

 

 

2 hours ago, leoni said:

I talked to my doc on phone he told me to start taking bromazepam 10 drops 3 times a day. I didn't get the medicine i don't want to start it, i am very scared, suffering alot.

 

This was a wise decision to not take this drug. It's another benzodiazepine and since you've already come off Librium and Clonazepam cold turkey, going back on another benzo will make you more likely to kindle your nervous system, meaning the next withdrawal will likely be a lot harder. Please see:

 

Benzodiazepine Kindling

 

Kindling, in layman’s terms, is as if the nervous system has a memory of the past withdrawal(s). This memory of prior withdrawal(s) and/or damage still remains imprinted within the nervous system and subsequent withdrawals and/or damage are worse because the nervous system recalls that it has been sensitized/damaged in prior withdrawal(s).

 

Since you're sleeping well, I would avoid alcohol and work with non-drug coping skills to handle anxiety and panic attacks instead of going back on another drug. Please see:

 

Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms

 

Sudden fear, terror, panic, or anxiety from withdrawal

 

Ways to cope with daily anxiety
 
Rebuilding self-confidence, accepting anxiety

 

Dealing With Emotional Spirals

 

You may find Dr. Claire Weekes to be helpful. Here are some links from ChessieCat:

 

 

On 11/3/2020 at 12:31 AM, ChessieCat said:

This site has some excellent self help resources (scroll down for links to various topics) including the First Aid for Panic mp3s:

 

Audio:  First Aid for Panic (4 minutes) Female voice - getselfhelp.co.uk
 

Audio:  First Aid for Panic (4 minutes) Male voice - getselfhelp.co.uk

 

https://www.getselfhelp.co.uk/selfhelp.htm

 

Dr Claire Weekes was an Australia doctor who suffered from and taught ways to cope with anxiety:

 

dr-claire-weekes-method

 

Audio:  How to Recover from Anxiety - Dr Claire Weekes

 

 

 

[leoni]

Hello Shep thank you very very much for your quick reply. Last time I had alcohol was in 2012, last cigarette was in April 2015. I don't know what happened yesterday. I will be patient, i talked with some friends here in albania where I live and all told me don't take any medicine, some of them has pass through this. I hope I can do it, but i am scared, i fear for my family I don't want my daughter and wife see me in panic attack. I will read all the links. I feel lucky i find this website. Thank you again and sorry for my bad english.

[Subzero42]

I cold turkeyed Escitalopram 20 mg 3 years ago, and reinstated at full dosa after a month as my symptom kept worsening, I stabilized within a few months

 

Cold turkey is always a bad idea

[Shep]

24 minutes ago, leoni said:

Hello Shep thank you very very much for your quick reply. Last time I had alcohol was in 2012, last cigarette was in April 2015. I don't know what happened yesterday. I will be patient, i talked with some friends here in albania where I live and all told me don't take any medicine, some of them has pass through this. I hope I can do it, but i am scared, i fear for my family I don't want my daughter and wife see me in panic attack. I will read all the links. I feel lucky i find this website. Thank you again and sorry for my bad english.

 

It may just have been a bad wave, Leoni. These will happen, but they do pass. Best not to panic. Please see:

 

The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

BTW, your English is very good. 

[leoni]

Help, today was hell, think i am gonna take bromazepam as doctor said, i can't do it. Panic attack, feeling hopeless, strong head pain, nausea, this hell goes on. I don't want to take bromazepam but is hard too hard. Help

[Altostrata]

Leoni, you might want to reinstate a small amount of escitalopram, such as 1mg, instead of taking bromazepam to stop withdrawal symptoms.

 

You may be able to get escitalopram or citalopram liquid by prescription, or you can make your own liquid with water. This topic explains how to do this: Tips for tapering off escitalopram (Lexapro)

 

Please let us know how you're doing.

[leoni]

Hello, here where I live we cannot find those types of medicine without doctor prescription. The doc gave me 30 drops daily of bromazepam, 10 drop every 8 hour. I feel i little better. After some day I will speak again. I told him can i reinstate lower dose of escitaloapram, he said we will talk another day about this, first let's see how it's going. I think about the cause of this anxiety and i think it was because I did too many water fasting (only water for 30 days) and dry fasting (nothing for max 5 days). Maybe it was too much stress for mind and body. I don't know for sure. I am hoping only it will pass

[Shep]

On 11/21/2020 at 5:53 PM, Altostrata said:

Leoni, you might want to reinstate a small amount of escitalopram, such as 1mg, instead of taking bromazepam to stop withdrawal symptoms.

 

I agree with Alto on this. If you can get a prescription for the escitalopram or if you have some leftover, I would try this before developing a dependency on a benzo again. You risk kindling your nervous system by going back on a benzo. Please see:

 

Benzodiazepine Kindling

 

Kindling, in layman’s terms, is as if the nervous system has a memory of the past withdrawal(s). This memory of prior withdrawal(s) and/or damage still remains imprinted within the nervous system and subsequent withdrawals and/or damage are worse because the nervous system recalls that it has been sensitized/damaged in prior withdrawal(s).

 

 

On 11/23/2020 at 4:47 AM, leoni said:

I think about the cause of this anxiety and i think it was because I did too many water fasting (only water for 30 days) and dry fasting (nothing for max 5 days). Maybe it was too much stress for mind and body. I don't know for sure.

 

Please clarify - did you go without food for 30 days and then without water for 5 days? If so, why? 

 

[leoni]

I read some books about the benefit of water fasting and i wanted to try. Spiritual benefits and body benefits. So i did 30 days with water only, it was very hard, after 2 month i did 10 days water fasting, and after 1 month again 7 days after 2 weeks I did 120 hours of dry fasting so no food and no water. I did this many times. Anyway i feel better now with bromazepam. I talk to my doctor and he said you only took escitaloapram for only 4 month so the withdrawal it's almost over and i hope so. I thank you all for your words, you are great people. Again i have moments of extreme fear but it passes quickly. 

[manymoretodays]

Hi there leoni,

Please keep in mind that it only takes 2 weeks for a dependency to develop with benzo's, of which bromazepam is one.

On 11/20/2020 at 8:52 AM, leoni said:

Help, today was hell, think i am gonna take bromazepam as doctor said, i can't do it. Panic attack, feeling hopeless, strong head pain, nausea, this hell goes on. I don't want to take bromazepam but is hard too hard. Help

 

And you are now, 10 days into it?

On 11/19/2020 at 3:23 AM, leoni said:

I talked to my doc on phone he told me to start taking bromazepam 10 drops 3 times a day.

 

Is this what you are taking now?  And at what times?

What is your "feeling better" like?

 

I found this, on the concentration, and more on the bromazepam gtts:  http://www.abcfarmaceutici.it/uploads/news/27_file3_en.pdf

And so, if my math is correct, each 10 gtts is approximate to 1 mg of bromezepam.

Then, taken 3 times/day you would be taking 3 mg total each day.

 

Then according to the benzo.org.uk: Benzodiazepine equivalence table

And some additional math, that is equivalent to about 6 mg of Valium/day

 

@Shep, may want to check my math and further advise. 

 

It may not have been the best timing, to do all the fasting, leoni, I don't know. 

And I sure hate to see you get hooked or have to go through another ugly WD with the bromezapam.

Often, when on benzo's, it can be quite dulling, and depressing.

 

1 hour ago, leoni said:

I talk to my doctor and he said you only took escitaloapram for only 4 month so the withdrawal it's almost over and i hope so.

 

And this ^, isn't always the case that we see.  Many do experience WD or WDsyndrome well beyond the first month or two, after coming off an AD.  And being on escitalopram for 4 months is certainly long enough for a type of dependency to develop as well.  It's usually about a month of usage, when most AD's start to cause adaptions in the nervous system mechanisms.

 

Go back and look at the links I gave you on Withdrawal, and Brain Remodeling, when you can.

 

And okay, thank you.

 

Best, L, P, H, and G,

mmt

 

 

 

Edited November 30, 2020 by manymoretodays
additional on AD's, could use a link/reference still

[Shep]

On 11/19/2020 at 7:41 AM, Shep said:

This was a wise decision to not take this drug. It's another benzodiazepine and since you've already come off Librium and Clonazepam cold turkey, going back on another benzo will make you more likely to kindle your nervous system, meaning the next withdrawal will likely be a lot harder. Please see:

 

Benzodiazepine Kindling

 

Kindling, in layman’s terms, is as if the nervous system has a memory of the past withdrawal(s). This memory of prior withdrawal(s) and/or damage still remains imprinted within the nervous system and subsequent withdrawals and/or damage are worse because the nervous system recalls that it has been sensitized/damaged in prior withdrawal(s).

 

@leoniI'm going to add onto the wise words that Manymoretoday's posted. You really are risking a lot to go back on a benzodiazepine. 

 

Please let us know how you're doing. 

 

I would not do any more fasting. You're going to make yourself a lot sicker. Right now, you're body needs nourishment - healthy foods and plenty of clean water on a regular schedule.