lfran: withdrawal from Zoloft, continuing to fight

[lfran]

@RachelSusanthank you so much. I will do that. 
 

2 minutes ago, RachelSusan said:

 

I think in my last post I misspoke.  What I was trying to say was that while I did not experience any waves, I did not experience any windows either. I was trying to say I had no big ups or downs, it was just one long down. For months and months and months. Happy to report that I am doing really good now though.

That makes more sense… it sounded too good to be true! Not gonna lie, I was getting a bit jealous, haha. Sorry for misunderstanding! 

[Greatful]

@lfran  Congratulations on your many accomplishment, healing from your eating disorder, dealing with trauma, and getting off these drugs.🌞

I see that you are doing neurofeedback.  I was reading about it in the book Your Body Keeps the Score.  It's about trauma and some way to heal from it.

Have you read the book?  I am very interest in trying it but I am concerned about doing it while in WD.  What is your take on that?  Besides I am paranoid of being with people LOL.  These drugs sure mess with our brain chemistry.   

 

 

 

[lfran]

@GreatfulI did read that book... back in 2020 when I was first in withdrawal I found it very eye opening. I credit that book with helping me to understand that in order to truly heal from withdrawal I was going to have to face what was underneath the "need" for medication in the first place. Even with all the steps I've taken, I still feel like I've got so far to go. 

 

In my opinion neurofeedback is helpful in some ways, but can't replace the rebuilding that needs to happen in the brain. I think it can help create an optimal environment for healing... but the healing will still be slow. The most helpful thing neurofeedback did for me was address my sleep- I have had massive issues with sleep all my life and for the first time I am not only able to sleep all night (aside from getting up to use the bathroom) but as of summer 2021 I am also able to nap during the day- something I have never been able to do due to extreme hyper-vigilance. It also regulated my digestion to an extent, although WD continues to create some variability there. It is ultimately your choice, but my practitioner says that it is safe to do while coming off of meds and has helped others to come off of meds as well. Don't expect any miracles though. 

[Ariel]

Hi @lfran

I've been following along from the sidelines and thought I'd say hello and introduce myself. 

Congratulations on all your hard work thus far, you have really been doing a great job!

 

On 8/5/2022 at 2:40 AM, lfran said:

I was put on the meds at 15 years old

 

Maybe you are already aware, but just in case, I wanted to mention a group topic for those of us who were drugged as children.

I post there, too, sometimes. I was put on meds when I turned 17.

 

Wishing you all the best on your continuous healing journey.

In solidarity and support, 

A.

[lfran]

Thanks @Ariel I'll check it out.

 

I'm currently on antibiotics with a serious infection... The first round that I took did not work so I had to be put on a second kind. Antibiotics seem to have a very negative impact on my mental health- I've been aware of this for a long time. However, it is so much worse now that I am actually in WD. Has anyone else experienced horrible mood side effects from antibiotics? 

[ChessieCat]

58 minutes ago, lfran said:

However, it is so much worse now that I am actually in WD. Has anyone else experienced horrible mood side effects from antibiotics? 

 

Yes, other members have had their withdrawal symptoms increase when taking an antibiotic.  It is important to understand that as well as the antibiotic, your body is also stressed because it is trying to fight an infection.

 

cipro-levaquin-azithromycin-z-pack-and-other-antibiotics

 

[Greatful]

 

@lfran  Stopping by to see how you are doing?

[lfran]

@Greatful I've had a rough few months. I had a bad ankle infection that I needed three rounds of different strong antibiotics for. This definitely impacted my mood, from what I read due to disruptions in the gut biome.

 

Following that I had an appointment with a gastroenterologist who was going to take a look at me for Celiac and blood in my stool (sorry, TMI I know). I have had symptoms of gluten intolerance for many years. They scheduled a colonoscopy/endoscopy. In order to be tested for Celiac I needed to consume gluten for 6 weeks. This took a toll on my energy and mood.

 

Finally a month ago I had the procedure. They used Propofol to knock me out. I had done research on possible issues that could be caused by the different anesthesias and Propofol seemed safe. I was wrong. Following the procedure I was immediately in a state of complete dread and doom. It completely set me back- I'm in this soulless, anhedonic state that I've never experienced before. I've been suicidal for weeks. 

 

Fighting for my life over here. 

 

I hope you're doing well... I have not been active at all on here because I just can't take it. I'd love to hear how you're doing.

[Greatful]

@lfran  Oh man you have been through the wringer ... Did you everything check out okay?   I can so relate to staying away from here....It takes a lot of energy and sometimes we just don't have it.  Trying to stay positive is really hard when you read over and over so much pain and distress..  I think you need to take care of yourself first and if that means cocooning yourself in self care and self compassion that what you need to do.   

I'm doing about the same....waves of depression, obsessing and whatever else my body and brain throw at me......Battle fatigue....😒

Please remember you are not alone.  Reach out when you can....🌞 

[lfran]

Funnily enough I had a bit of a window from Friday to Saturday before entering a period of extreme irritability Saturday night. The window was lovely and I felt loving appreciation for my husband. I cried tears of joy because I felt ok. 

 

I keep a big white board on my dresser where I've written a list of ideas for easy non-electronic activities, daily goals, a "bucket list" (aka reasons to stay alive) and inspirational quotes. I've had "don't kill yourself, wait for a good day" written on there for quite a while now. Well, I got my good day. I'm thankful for that.

[ChessieCat]

1 hour ago, lfran said:

I've had "don't kill yourself, wait for a good day" written on there for quite a while now. Well, I got my good day. I'm thankful for that.

 

The expression that really helped me was:  "it's just a feeling and feelings change".

[lfran]

@ChessieCat I like that. As CPTSD sufferer I dealt with "fear without solution" as a child, and at that time feelings seemed permanent and intolerable. I'm actively in therapy to unlearn that now.

Another one I really like is "stand in your strength." It has really helped me when I get those "why me?" thoughts. I constantly feel like I'm being tested or that I somehow brought this on myself/deserve this because I'm not passing the tests. (I'm aware that this is a remnant of my trauma). When I look at suffering as a chance to stand in my own strength, whether it's by releasing negative thinking, getting up and doing something, or just surrendering to the current situation... it reminds me I'm strong enough to get through.

[lfran]

@GreatfulI just have some minor health stuff.. other than that I'm fine.

 

It's always comforting to me to know I'm not the only one who deals with obsessions because when it's happening it feels so urgent and real... it's hard to believe that it is a WD symptom. Then I read about others who deal with it and I take a sigh of relief knowing it's not truly me.

 

Are you getting any windows at least? I can't wait to start getting more windows. 

[lfran]

Also I came across this article on a Reddit thread from the past year. It validates the hyperbolic approach to weaning. Thought it was worth a share. https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanpsy/article/PIIS2215-0366(19)30032-X/fulltext

[ChessieCat]

16 hours ago, lfran said:

Also I came across this article on a Reddit thread from the past year. It validates the hyperbolic approach to weaning. Thought it was worth a share. https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanpsy/article/PIIS2215-0366(19)30032-X/fulltext

 

Q:  Have you seen the video linked in my drug signature?

 

VIDEO:   Antidepressant Withdrawal Syndrome and its Management

[lfran]

Coming on to say that I am in a paralysis of depression right now. I am unable to care for myself and I feel incredibly alone. I have lost faith and given up a lot of my coping mechanisms. I feel pathetic and weak. 

[Greatful]

@lfran  Oh hold on lfran.....I can so relate to your pain.......It can be so overwhelming and scary to feel so sick.......I went through a really bad spot recently and can so that I feel stronger now........Still struggling but not so intense....  Have you read this http:// Steps for Managing WD Symptoms...It is a great reminder that what we are going through is normal for most of us and we are not broken.......Also have you read http://What is happening in your brain?

Please do what you can to get through the minutes of the day it will pass or at least get to where you can tolerate it...

 

Print these out to have on hand 

 

Don't give up on your healing. I know it's difficult to remain hopeful because everyday you struggle with the torture of the intense and bizarre symptoms and it seems as if nothing is changing. So I am here to be the rational, "non-withdrawal" voice in your head and to remind you of the reality : that no matter how long it is taking, this challenge is temporary. One day you will wake up and something will be different. It will be more than a "window", it will be the long-awaited break, the last lap, the finishing line in view.

Then it will be over, and you will be able to navigate your way out from under the rubble, brush yourself off, pick up the pieces and get on with your life.

What awaits you on the other side is worth you holding on for. Nothing in life will ever again faze you. You will have a different perspective on life, and it won't take much to make you feel content. 

 

When withdrawal anxiety is high and I am in 'fight' or 'flight 'or 'freeze' mode, it is difficult for me to be grounded and to

maintain perspective. I lose sight of the fact that this experience is temporary and that it is leading me to my long-

awaited recovery. I am consumed with what is happening and it can make me seem self-absorbed and uninterested in my loved ones. This is understandable, as I spend all my time and energy managing the bizarre symptoms, breathing through the pain,and holding on for dear life. I miss important moments in  the lives of those around me and I also overlook just how courageous and persevering I have been and continue to be. So today, I acknowledge my strength and I accept that while I may spend much of my time consumed with coping, this does not mean that I am self-centered or selfish. I am just hypervigilant in the context of being constantly aware of my symptoms, and of my environment, always looking for perceived threats. I know that I will revert to normal when this is over. am compassionate and gentle with myself, in the meantime, knowing that no matter how intense and overwhelming my symptoms are, I will cope well. I trust that eventually I will begin to notice improvements and when the timing is right for me, this challenge will end with my recovery.

 

 

You are not weak or pathetic.   Look how much you have endured and kept going......I know how hard it is to manage to get through the days but you can and will get through each and everyday.....Find just one skill to help you through....even if it's a simple thing you tell yourself ie....this can't hurt me.....I can get through another day....time will pass no matter what and it will drag me with it...Hold on to your loved one, hold on to yourself and love yourself enough to fight on. 

 

Sending you a hug

 

[lfran]

@Greatful you are an angel for taking the time to post that. I can’t understand why the waves are feeling worse than ever. Thank you for being so kind.
 

We will get through this grueling hell. I know there will be a time when even the tiniest things will bring such joy because we will have learned the secret to life: gratitude. Think of the joy we will feel in the smallest moments- sitting in the grass, snuggling up in blankets, feeling the sun’s warmth, laughing, moving to music, stroking a pet, biting an apple... we will be content in all the rich sensation and in love with being alive. Imagine: everyday problems seem so small compared to what we have endured. We are not among those who take life for granted. We can recognize how precious each moment is better than anyone, because we have been on the side of true suffering. Enduring this hell was the price we paid for our deep appreciation and new outlook. And, I dare say, we may even be grateful to have endured it, because it was only through it that such immense growth was possible. 

[Greatful]

@lfran  Thanks for reminding me that we can heal from this.....I do think that we do/can learn to face and view things in our lives with more observance and patients.......Funny you mention viewing things different.....I find that if I can slow down and be in the moment I can actually enjoy simple things like clean ie...doing dishes, vacuuming....things that before were a hindrance and a must do,  now I am finding pleasure in them maybe it it's  because I can actually function enough to do them..LOL.... 

 

Hang in there, remember to draw strength from knowing you are not alone.

[lfran]

Had a really nice window starting Friday afternoon and it lasted all the way into Saturday. It faded gradually and now (Monday) I’m fully back in WD normal with some anhedonia. It feels different though. Like there is a more positive “flavor” to the numbness, less dark… hard to describe. Important to note: this is my first window that has truly lasted overnight into the following day. Today marks 8 months off of all meds. I am healing! 

[labrat15]

Hey @lfran just wanted say thanks for your comments on my intro. Good to hear your having windows too and that the waves have improved. I never thought that feeling normal would be so great lol.

[lfran]

@labrat15Any time. I'm back in the trenches now, but trying to stay positive. Last two days were difficult. Relief is just around the corner!

[Greatful]

@lfran  checking in to see how you are doing?

[lfran]

@Greatful Thanks for checking in. It really means a lot to me. Still pushing through. I've had better energy lately but my feelings are mainly a mix of sadness, grief, anger, irritability, and good old anhedonia. Also experiencing bursts of strong bodily anxiety. 

 

On a positive note, I went to a meditation retreat at a Chan Buddhist center recently and it did wonders to help me sit with and surrender to all feelings- physical and emotional. Despite my absence of "good" feelings, the retreat helped me to access feelings of peace, and changed my perspective in some really profound ways. I am very grateful for that "reset."

 

Other than that I am deep into year three of working toward healing from the extraordinary trauma of my childhood. I'm noticing subtle shifts in the ways that I regard myself and the world I live in. I'm becoming more compassionate toward myself. I am much more aware of emotional flashbacks and sometimes catch them before they happen. People seem less dangerous. I'm getting better at speaking my truth instead of people pleasing to feel safe. My cruel, crushing perfectionism is being replaced by the mantra "good enough." 

 

For me, all of the work of the withdrawal is interconnected with the work of addressing complex trauma. Since addressing either of those is wildly challenging, addressing both of them at the same time is indescribably difficult! It is incredible to me how far I have been able to come despite having so few "rewards" (good feelings) for the hard work. Some days I am truly ready to give up, but most days I have a deep, knowing faith that what I am doing is serving my greatest good and I will someday reap the benefits.

 

Will you let me know how you're doing?  How is the trazodone taper?

[lfran]

Hi everyone, I'm just coming on here to look for some encouragement. I really, really struggle with asking for help from others because I inherently do not feel deserving, wanted, or even trusting with regards to leaning on others (my childhood was very abusive and I'm working on addressing these things). I usually wait until I feel desperate before asking for support, so this is a big step for me.

 

I have been working at doing things to heal and I know I am making progress, but most of what I feel all the time is numbness or anxiety/anger/annoyance/grief/sadness. I very rarely experience "good" feelings. It's been three years of this, with just a handful of windows. Am I doomed to face this forever? Is this what my life is going to be? Or am I through the withdrawal and is this just how I am? I've been off of meds for almost 11 months and the fact that I don't really have windows makes me afraid that my windows are happening and I'm just not a happy person so they don't feel good. I read lots of stories of others who are experiencing windows along with their waves, and I often wonder if I am so damaged that this is how my life is going to be. Of course, such a thought is unbearable, because if I were doomed to live this way for the rest of my life, I simply could not endure it. I'm looking for hope and wondering if anyone who is on the "other side" was faced with grueling waves with very few windows, and what recovery looked like for those people. 

 

[labrat15]

I'm going to be doing a post on my intro and I'll start a thread in the topics but I have been doing psilocybin and I have recovered significantly. Its not even debatable as to whether it helped me or not it helped me tremendously. My vision, dizziness, congestion, PSSD and anxiety have improved significantly and I'm still making progress. Microdosing has been very helpful as well but the macro doses have been extraordinary. There are a bunch of biotech companies that are bringing synthetic psilocybin through clinical trial for depression, brain injury, anxiety, addiction and a bunch of other conditions and I can confirm that psilocybin has helped me with PAWS or whatever the hell was done to me. I started slow because I didn't know how I was going to react after getting off these drugs but the experience was very smooth. Might be worth it to look into it because I cannot even describe how much its helped me.     

[RachelSusan]

@lfran It is hard to ask for help. I have been the same way at times. I am very pleased that you showed up here though.  Good for you.

 

I have been off of Zoloft for about one and a half years now. I didn't really get windows or waves the entire time I was tapering, everything just stayed the same, bad. I think we all continue to heal even after we get off the medication. Hopefully you are still healing. I wish I could answer some of your questions but I don't have the answers, just give it some time though.

 

I will give you some advice that my mother gave to me. She told me if I felt bad then do something for someone else that is less fortunate than myself. It sounds very simple but I have tried it and it works. Now the fix doesn't last long but it is better than nothing. Sometimes it can be something small like calling a relative that you know is lonely and saying hello.  Some days for me it sometimes as simple as making sure I greet an elderly or lonely person in the grocery store. I just smile and say good morning. Nothing more. I know this sounds trivial but it is the only thing I know to suggest.  It has helped me tremendously through my depressing times. I hope my mother's simple advice can be of some help to you.

 

I hope life becomes a little more enjoyable for you. You have done so well getting of the Zoloft and previous medications. I don't know you and I am impressed. Perhaps you can be a proud of yourself for that? Hang in there.

Edited April 9, 2023 by RachelSusan

[Greatful]

@lfran

 

My guess my dear comrade in arms, that you will start to see the end of the tunnel with some window soon.....I like to re-read Pugs success story....He really went though some heavy torcher, his list is longggggg. He made it out....This is part of what he wrote to someone,

Throughout recovery If I was walking ahead of you on a hike and I got to a beautiful waterfall, I texted you real quick, “Nena,  isn’t this waterfall amazing!?”  You would text back, “pug, maybe it is but I can’t see it yet!”  And that is how recovery is; I am telling you the waterfall is amazing because I am here looking at it, and I need you to trust me and keep hiking until you get here to see it!  It doesn’t matter if you think negative thoughts or bad thoughts along the trail, as long as you keep hiking you are going to get here eventually to see what I am seeing!  

 

 Boy do I hear you about trauma.  I have a lot of trauma stuck in my body.  So I am in that fight or flight mode a lot....I wonder if the organic fear from withdrawal exasperates it....My brain is on the alert for something to happen....Fear Fear Fear......When I can stop and tell myself that I have nothing to fear I can get a quick sense of oh yeah I am ok....Then the brain is back at it along with the tension in my body..... It's like my brain is trying to find a way out of it's torcher....I suffer with very low moods an sadness too.....I can tell that I am soooooo tired of this.....Both my brain and body LOL....... My therapist Molly is going to get training on EDMR and then I will do some EDMR.   I hope that it will help me release some of the trauma that is stuck in my body....But you right I think, it is so much harder to deal with both trauma and withdrawal..... 

 

I often wonder how can I keep going, but really try to not spend time on that thought and try to let these thoughts sit  in there in the  back reses of my mind and move on to something else....It is so easy to fight the thoughts or try to change them or make them go away but  that only makes your brain think they are important.. We have been at this a long time and some how have made it to our pillow every night....So as hard as it is, "stay in the day/moment".....There is no quick fix for today.... and let time bring you along into the future.  As Molly would tell me What can I do today.....

Also learning to reframe your thoughts from the negative to the positive is sooo harddddd.

 

I want to acknowledge your pain, I know it's real.....

Hang in there, spring is in there air.  I am walking the journey with you,  you are so not alone.🌞

 

[lfran]

@labrat15 That's really awesome info- I'm really happy you're finding some relief. I tried microdosing toward the beginning of my withdrawal but it wasn't as successful- I think my system was wayyyy too sensitized at the time. I would get very strong anxiety in the first few hours, even on the tiniest of doses, so I gave up after several weeks. Maybe I will try it in the summer when I'm off for summer vacation. Thank you for sharing!

 

@RachelSusanThat is sound advice from your mother. I teach 6th grade and have always been good at making strong connections with students (especially "needy" ones), so the times when I'm at school are when I feel the best, although it is crushingly exhausting. Much of the time the anhedonia is so strong I know I am "faking it," but sometimes I feel the faint sense of enjoyment, and that provides some relief. I will keep looking for ways to give when I have the energy. 90% of my energy has to go toward keeping my teaching job, and the rest of the time I am trying to rest and recover. 

 

@GreatfulI too have read Pug's story- too many times to count. That waterfall analogy is beautiful and I will try to think of it in times like these. I hear you about being stuck in fight or flight!

That's awesome you'll be trying EMDR soon- I tried it for a while myself. Go slowly- it can really overwhelm the system- I remember being totally exhausted the next day.

I also really appreciate you just acknowledging my pain. It's so simple, yet I think that's what I need sometimes. It feels like permission to offer myself compassion. 

 

Thank you all for the replies. You all hang in there and let's keep on helping one another stay afloat. 

[RachelSusan]

@lfran Please keep coming back when you need support. I know it can be difficult to do so. We are here for you.

❤️

[Greatful]

@lfran  How are you doing?  I hope there has been some relief in your symptoms.🌞