Jennings: down in a hole

[Jennings]

Hi Everyone,

 

Sorry about any misspellings or rambling/fragmented sentences.  I'm in the middle of a wave of high anxiety with severe insomnia. I figured it was time to give this a shot.

 

I've been on and off Lexapro since 2014, mostly on.  

 

I had never taken a medication my whole life, barely took headache meds.  Very active my whole life.  I had flare ups of anxiety since I was a young child but I never knew what it was and just powered through.  I'd always distract myself by working out, running, video games, etc.  

 

In 2012 my four year old son was having a lot of health issues and the doctors had him going through a lot of tests.  This went on for over a year.  My wife was scared, my son was scared, I was terrified.  The cancer word was being thrown around.  I was a ball of nerves, I couldn't outrun the anxiety this time.  Our GP suggested I try an AD.  I wasn't sure but my family really pushed me to try it as a crutch.  I started taking Zoloft in March 2014 and I took it for 3 months.  It made me insanely tired.  I stopped working out and I could barely get out of bed in the morning.  I wasn't anxious but I wasn't happy so I talked to my GP and he said I could just stop.  I CT'd and got some minor brain zaps but nothing too bad.

 

About a month later I had a full blown panic attack in Target, my first ever panic attack.  It absolutely floored me.  Then I had another panic attack a few weeks after that.  I went to the hospital, got checked out and was told talk to my GP and see a psych.  GP said you didn't like Zoloft, try Effexor.  Also was told this was my mental illness progressing and now I would need this meds.  I took Effexor that night and after about 3 hours I had worse anxiety I've ever had.  Called GP practice, they said keep taking.  I took it 3 more days and had to leave work and go to the hospital.  I was in terrible shape with extremely high blood pressure and manic.  I went inpatient where I saw a psych doc who put me on Lexapro 20mg and Klonopin 1 mg a day.

 

I got out a week later and was allowed to work from home.  I ended up back at work 2 months later after I started to feel better.  I wasn't great but I could deal.  You know the deal.  Better more days than not.   I started to gain weight, I stopped exercising, and I stopped socializing with family and friends.

 

In July 2016 I started a taper.  I went down 5mg a month and jumped in Oct 2016.  I had a bad two weeks after every drop but got through.  In January 2017, 3 months after I jumped off Lexapro, I started to get bad anxiety again.  I was still on the Klonopin, now 1.5mg a day.  It didn't help.  My psych believed this was not withdrawal but my symptoms coming out again.  She put me on Prozac and I had another bad reaction.  Three days in I started having panic attacks and I ended up with insomnia for a month.  I ended up back in the hospital where they put me back on Lexapro 20mg.

 

I ended up getting more out of shape and lethargic. My BP, Cholesteral, and Sugar were up.  I started CBT and pushed myself to exercise.  I could not lose weight.  I ended up finding a psych doc in my area that is great at tapering off benzos.  So I joined a Benzo recovery discord and became active on Benzo Buddies.  I tapered off 1.5 mg of Klonopin from December 2018 to December 2019.  Actually took my last dose on Xmas eve.  Coming of the benzo was terrible but I did it.  It was a long terrible year.

 

Next I turned my attention to the Lexapro and my psych doc got me liquid and I went down 1 mg every week from February 2020 to August 2020.  When I jumped in August I had about 2 weeks of pretty bad symptoms but they resided over time.  I was doing really well, very active and getting good rest.  All of sudden I woke up insanely anxious last Thursday and it's been that way since.  I'm having insomnia, insane anxiety, not hungry, face flushed, gastro issues and constant fight or flight.

 

Just coming here for some type of support.  

Edited November 18, 2020 by Gridley

[Gridley]

Welcome to SA, Jennings. I'm sorry you're feeling bad. Congratulations on being klonopin-free.

 

To give members the best information, we ask them to summarize their medication history in a signature -- drugs, doses, dates, and discontinuations & reinstatements, in the last 12-24 months particularly.

 

Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature.

 

Your taper of 1 mg a week was very fast, resulting in the delayed withdrawal symptoms you're now experiencing.  The symptoms you describe are typical 

of withdrawal.

 

What is withdrawal syndrome.

 

Daily Checklist of Antidepressant Withdrawal Symptoms (PDF) 

 

The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

When we take psychiatric medications, the CNS (central nervous system) responds by making changes over the months and years we take the drug(s). When the medication is discontinued, the CNS has to undo all the changes it made. Rebuilding the neurotransmitter production and reactivating the receptor and transporter cells takes time -- during that rebuilding process symptoms occur.  

 

Reinstatement of a very small dose of the original drug is the only know way to alleviate withdrawal symptoms.  You're a little outside the time when reinstatement typically works, 3 months, so reinstatement might work or it might not.  The only alternative to reinstatement is to wait the symptoms out until you return to homeostasis.  While for some this occurs fairly quickly, for other it can take longer.  Please read:

 

About reinstating and stabilizing to reduce withdrawal symptoms. -- at least the first page of the topic

 

Your system has been sensitized by your rapid taper, and, if reinstating, we recommend a very small dosage to avoid overwhelming your brain.  If you're interested in reinstatement, please let me know your last dosage amount of Lexapro before you stopped and we'll recommend a reinstatement dosage.  Please don't reinstate without letting us suggest a dosage.

 

We don't recommend a lot of supplements on SA, as many members report being sensitive to them due to our over-reactive nervous systems, but two supplements that we do recommend are magnesium and omega 3 (fish oil). Many people find these to be calming to the nervous system. 

 

Magnesium, nature's calcium channel blocker 

 

Omega-3 fatty acids (fish oil) 

 

Add in one at a time and at a low dose in case you do experience problems. Get supplements that are single ingredient (not mixed with other types of supplements).

 

This is your Introduction topic, where you can complete your drug signature, ask questions and connect with other members.  We're glad you found your way here.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 18, 2020 by Gridley

[Jennings]

Thanks for responding to me.

 

I reinstated last time I went off and it was a terrible getting back to baseline.  A lot of my withdrawals went away but the Lexapro side effects came back.  

 

My biggest thing here is that I'm having negative thoughts and not knowing if this is how I am now or if it is withdrawal.

 

I'm also confused to why each time I got off, it took three months for these type of symptoms to show up.

 

thanks

[Gridley]

25 minutes ago, Jennings said:

A lot of my withdrawals went away but the Lexapro side effects came back.  

I understand.  It's a rock and hard place between side effects and withdrawal.  If you had a tough time getting back to baseline after your last reinstatement, I can see why you'd be reluctant to chance it again. You will return to homeostasis, but we just don't know how long it will take.

 

26 minutes ago, Jennings said:

 

My biggest thing here is that I'm having negative thoughts and not knowing if this is how I am now or if it is withdrawal.

 

One way to tell is to see if you had these negative thinking before withdrawal.  If not, it's likely withdrawal.  If it's an old pattern we recommend non-drug coping techniques.  Here are some suggestions:

 

Non-drug techniques to cope

 

29 minutes ago, Jennings said:

 

I'm also confused to why each time I got off, it took three months for these type of symptoms to show up.

 

This is a fairly common phenomenon--an initial honeymoon, then, right around the 3-month mark, to get slammed with withdrawal symptoms. 

[brassmonkey]

Hi Jennings-- welcome to SA. I'm so sorry that you needed to find us but so glad you did. It sounds like you've really been through it over the past few years, but it isn't a permanent situation and with time things will get better. 

 

No you are not like that, it's the drugs, the way they act and the process of withdrawing from them. Gridley is giving you some great references and information so I will let him get on with it. But I would suggest in addition to the links he has given that you read through this one https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/23081-are-we-there-yet-how-long-is-withdrawal-going-to-take/

 

 

It may be long, but has a lot of information and explanations.

[Jennings]

Thanks, I really appreciate the answers.

 

As of right now I'm not going to reinstate.

 

I did extensive CBT and learned meditation techniques over the last 6 years.  This really helped me with negative thoughts.  The only times I can't control them was when I had an adverse reaction to ADs or at the three month mark after tapering of Lexapro.  

 

Thanks

[Krisseyb]

1 hour ago, Jennings said:

I'm also confused to why each time I got off, it took three months for these type of symptoms to show up

This has happened to me twice. Got off meds w/in two months....felt GREAT for the 2 months, then HORRIBLE anxiety....it's like it takes two months for my brain to realize...oh no... 

[ChessieCat]

Hi jennings and welcome from me too,

 

Please add the last dose you took to the following in your signature.  Thank you.

 

August 2014 - October 2017: Lexapro 20mg, three month taper (ADD LAST DOSE)

January 2018 - August 2020: Reinstate Lexapro 20 mg, six month taper (ADD LAST DOSE)

[Jennings]

It seems I'm much worse in the morning, I wake up to panic and then am anxious while laying there and then getting ready for work.

 

I noticed my anxiety will Spike after I have my cup of coffee, so I've been weaning myself off of coffee for the last week.  I get vicious caffiene headaches when I stop coffee.

 

Only a quarter of a small cup today but it still flared my anxiety.

 

I also have zero appetite.

[ChessieCat]

Have you tried Magnesium?  It helps reduce my anxiety a bit.

[Gridley]

7 hours ago, Jennings said:

 

It seems I'm much worse in the morning, I wake up to panic and then am anxious while laying there and then getting ready for work.

 

 

That is the morning cortisol spike, a very common withdrawal symptom.

 

7 hours ago, Jennings said:

 

I also have zero appetite.

 

I'm dealing with that too.  Another common symptom.  

 

The magnesium that ChessieCat suggested has helped me a good bit.  Magnesium glycinate is said to be good with calming.  It's what I take.

[Jennings]

Up at 5 am with Cortisol flares so I should just update.

 

@Gridley How much Magnesium do you take a day?

 

I got back a little of my appetite last night, I ended up eating my while dinner which I haven't done in almost a week, so there's something.

 

Anxiety was pretty steady all day, music seemed to help, coffee was bad, stressors were bad.

 

I was able to go to work, fix my son's bike, help my son with homework, play some Nintendo with my son, watch old episodes of the Simpsons with my wife and son, and then read until I passed out.  It was a pretty eventful day and I was able to get through it with the underlying anxiety.

 

If I can do this you can to.

[christianjw12]

Hi @Jennings, what a painful experience. I withdrew Lexapro in April of this year as well (last dose was 5mg so not a small dose even though my psychiatrist said that 5mg is nothing compared to some cases people take 20-40mg). I'm in a wave right now so I can understand your pain.

But I think the best option we have is to distance ourselves from our thoughts. It won't suppress our anxious and negative feelings but it shouldn't amplify them. A book I read when I'm feeling very bad is The Happiness Trap by Russ Harris. Maybe you can have a look about this book. It teaches ACT (a CBT therapy) and it helps a lot.

 

Christian

[Gridley]

4 hours ago, Jennings said:

 

@Gridley How much Magnesium do you take a day?

I take 400 to 500mg throughout the day and (when I awaken) night in 100mg increments.  It's very individual, so I'd start low and work up.  Magnesium glycinate is said to rank high in calming and absorbability.  If you get to point that it has a laxative effect, you've gone too high.

[Jennings]

Health Anxiety is definitely in the house.

 

6 am cortisol spike, yesterday was much earlier so I liked the extra hour of sleep.  
 

I’m so tired and wired.

 

Let’s get through this damn day.

[Jennings]

Also, I generally can have a small coffee, but when I get like this, I have to stop.

 

So dealing with caffeine withdrawal as well.

[Jennings]

So today has been terrible.  Health Anxiety mixed with high generalized anxiety.  

 

Neck and chest are also really sore.

 

Just terrible and I'm having thoughts of doom.

 

I think it's possible that knowing I have work tomorrow at 8 is weighing on me.

[Jennings]

Sorry, also cog fog and can't remember anything.

[Jennings]

Well I broke down after not having any Benzos for a year and finally took a .5 of Klonopin last night.

 

I fell asleep and woke up at 2 am to a monster of a panic attack.  Shaking, crying, and pure fear.

 

The Benzo calmed me down enough so that i could get downstairs to the couch and wait it out.  

 

I'm really upset with myself, I hadn't touched a benzo in 11 months.  This was the worst I've felt since I had a bad reaction to Prozac.  I was weak.

 

I had a meeting with my Psych yesterday and she wants me to start a new med, not Lexapro.  I'm worried about reinstating.  I don't know what to do.

 

Any suggestions or tips?

 

 

[Gridley]

2 hours ago, Jennings said:

Any suggestions or tips?

 

As you know, we're a site for tapering psychiatric drugs and for helping members cope with withdrawal.  Making recommendations on trying a different drug is outside the scope of what we do and would have to be a decision between you and your doctor.  There's really no way to tell what effect a new drug will have.  You are very likely in withdrawal from your fast taper of Lexapro in 2018.

 

 

[Jennings]

Thanks.  I’m sorry about asking.

 

I have a lot to think about.

[Jennings]

I'm now on a cycle.

 

I am using my CBT to process the intrusive thoughts so even though my days suck I can get through.

 

At night I'm able to fall asleep but wake up within a couple hours with insane anxiety and panic.  If I try to fall back asleep I end up getting panic jumps or spasms as I drift off   On the off chance I actually fall asleep I think my dreams are reality and I can feel the panic while dreaming.  Then I wake up in panic again.

 

Just bizarre.

 

Anyone else deal with this and have any advice on dealing with it.

[christianjw12]

Hi @Jennings, there's no other way to cope with anxiety than to accept the situation and let it go. The anxiety id not a permanent emotion. When you're able to accept it without rejecting it, it starts to lose its power. That's how people get through panic or anxiety disorder. They don't suppress it with magic pills or rituals. The only way to get freedom from it is to accept it, notice it, feel it. When you start to fully accept it, most of the time, it actually start to fade.

[Jennings]

Thanks @christianjw12, I really try to accept but sometimes the intrusive thoughts are too much.

 

For most of my taper I had accepted it and had minor bumps, but pulled through.  This last wave really threw me.

 

i hope you're doing well.

[christianjw12]

I'm 7 months off Lexapro and I still have lots of intrusive thoughts. Sometimes it feels like my mind is another person and is taking over my life, so it's very uncomfortable but notice it and bring back your attention to what you were doing. That's how mindfulness works. It's about to notice those intrusive thoughts and not hold on them. Just let them pass through our mind. They actually can't harm us, accepting it and it'll become easier and easier. Don't let those thoughts become stronger than you. We'll all heal

 

[Jennings]

Just a quick update.

 

I have gotten some sleep the last few nights.  The insomnia has let up a little but is not completely gone.

 

My symptoms are still intrusive thoughts, no appetite, some insomnia, anxiety, odd chest pains.

 

New symptoms are anger and depression.

 

Just keep keeping on right now.

 

I had work today, fell asleep at 11 and was wide awake anxious at 5 am.  The anxiety has been on and off all day.

[Jennings]

Hey everyone,

 

My Psych and I have discussed reinstating a low dose of Lexapro.

 

I would get liquid lexapro and slowly slowly taper off.  I would try the 10% rule from this site.

 

My question now is that at almost 4 months being off would I actually be able to reinstate at a low dose or would it make it worse?

 

Thanks

[Jennings]

I have actually gotten sleep the last few nights.  I make sure I'm in bed by 10 when I'm ready to fall asleep.  I've been reading in a chair and not in bed.

 

Started yoga Friday night.  Also drinking Sleepy Tea at night and having some other organic tea throughout the day.

 

I'm flipping from intense anxiety, to anger, and then to becoming emotional.

 

Also I've noticed that my symptoms tend to change, I'll have bad gastro, then no appetite, then nauseous, them neuroemotions.  Anyone else notice that?

 

Usual day now:

 

Get up at 5 to 7 and walk the treadmill for 30 minutes 

Meditate and breathing exercises

Fruit for breakfast

Go to work

Eat small lunch and meditate 

Work the afternoon

Head home

Yoga at 530

Help my son with schoolwork and eat a small dinner 

Read while drinking sleepy tea

Go to sleep at 10

Usually wake up with anxiety at 1 and most likely fall back asleep until 5 or 7

 

How's everyone else doing?  I hope well.

[ChessieCat]

There are many SA topics where members discuss their symptoms.  To find them, use a search engine and add site:survivingantidepressants.org to the search term.

 

I would also suggest doing an SA search for the ingredients in your Sleepy Time Tea.

[Jennings]

Thanks Chessie

[ChessieCat]

It hasn't been very long since you stopped Lexapro and you also jumped off at a higher dose that SA recommends.  Have a look at this list of common withdrawal symptoms:

 

Dr Joseph Glenmullen's Withdrawal Symptoms

 

Also check out this topic:

 

are-we-there-yet-how-long-is-withdrawal-going-to-take

 

[Jennings]

Those symptoms read like a greatest hits of my life right now.

 

Thanks again 

[ChessieCat]

That might be the case, but it is so much better to know and understand what is causing them.  At least when you are aware that they are withdrawal symptoms it takes away the unknown and stops us getting caught up in the "what if it's ...?"  It also means that we are less likely to get additional symptoms which can happen when we fear of the unknown.

 

Obviously if there is a symptom which you get that continues and could possibly have a serious cause then it is prudent to get it checked out.

[Jennings]

Last night feel asleep at 10, woke up at 11 with anxiety, got up for 5 minutes and walked around, got back in bed and feel asleep until 630.  So it was a good nights sleep, however I don’t feel rested.

 

I’ve been slogging through work and dealing at home.

 

Any stress sends my anxiety through the roof.

 

I feel like I could sleep for days right now.

 

Also the nausea is the worst.

[Sunnyday]

Hi @Jennings. The nausea was really bad for me too a lot of the time. Being outside made it feel a little easier sometimes, but I also noticed it came on the most during anxiety. So slow, deep breathing was also helpful in some cases, sometimes together with meditation. 

I have also heard many find ginger to be helpful against nausea. 

 

Take care.

Edited December 9, 2020 by Sunnyday

[Jennings]

Being outside really helps me, however it is freezing here in NY, so my walks have really cut down.  Also I usually play basketball and pickleball however the Y is closed because of COVID.  I rreally want the pandemic to be over.

 

if I take ginger I get an insane amount of heartburn, like on the couch curled up heartburn.