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Wumay: switching from pill to liquid Trintellix, insomnia


Wumay

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Hi all,

This is an amazing forum! I am so grateful for the years of knowledge accumulated here. It has given me the confidence and the reassurance that tapering is the right thing to do and that I will need all the patience I can get!

 

My question:

I am trying to slowly switch from 15mg Trintellix in pill form to a homemade liquid suspension (just in water). I am currently prescribed 10mg and 5mg pills. To be cautious, I have only dissolved 5mg in water, and I continue to consume the 10mg in pill form. I started this on Nov 22 and began to experience insomnia: difficulty falling asleep, and staying asleep. I am quite certain this has to do with my switch to liquid Brintellix, as my sleep patterns are always affected by changes in my Trintellix dose. Does anyone have any advice on whether I should continue with this tactic, or make changes to what I’m doing? Thank you.

2012-2019 on-and-off: Zoloft, Celexa, with WD

2019: Stopped Zoloft, withdrawal, started Brintellix 10mg

2020 July-Nov 21: Brintellix 15mg

2021 Jan: Brintellix 13.5mg, liquid form

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  • ChessieCat changed the title to Wumay: switching from pill to liquid Trintellix, insomnia
  • Moderator Emeritus

Hi Wumay and welcome to SA,

 

Thank you for creating your drug signature.

 

I'm really pleased that you have found SA and that you have found the information here helpful.

 

Altostrata (SA's founder) gave an interview recently.  The link is in my signature.  I suggest that you listen to it.

 

That is good that you are doing a cross over from the tablet to liquid.  It is gentler on your system.  What you could do is cut your 5mg tablets in half and take 10mg + 1/2 5mg in tablet and put the other 1/2 5mg tablet in water.  It might be best to do that for 1 week and see if things improve.

 

Once things settle down you could then do 10mg + 5mg liquid.  If you aren't in a hurry to start tapering, and because it is very important to not spoil your sleep, you could do each combination for 1 week.  However, if you find after 3 days that you sleep is okay you could do the next combination.  The next combination would be cutting a 10mg tablet in half and cutting one of the halves in half again and taking 7.5mg in tablet and 7.5mg in liquid.  Then 5mg tablet and 10mg liquid and then 2.5mg tablet and the rest in liquid.  Once you are taking all liquid it would be a good idea to wait for about 2 weeks before commencing to taper.

 

Before you begin tapering what you need to know

 

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

Dr Joseph Glenmullen's Withdrawal Symptoms

 

Tips for tapering off vortioxetine (Trintellix, previously called Brintellix)

 

This is your own Introduction topic which is the best place to ask questions about your own situation and journal your progress.

 

And a message from Altostrata:

 

On 11/7/2020 at 8:23 AM, Altostrata said:

 

One of the things that's very important to each person here is knowing that healing is possible. Please don't just go away when you feel better! "Pay it forward" by updating your Intro topic with your progress and come back to post your success story when you are finally clear of all those awful symptoms.

 

Nothing is more valuable to the community than seeing how recovery happens. You have lots of people hoping you'll get better. Please let them know when you do.

 

 

NEW!!!     INTERVIEW with Altostrata, SA's founder    NEW!!! 

 

Plodding along inch by inch:  12" = 1',  3' =  36 " or 1 yard,  1760 yards  = 63,360" or 1 mile

Current from 6 Mar 2021:  Pristiq 0.328 mg

ADs since ~1992:  25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering Oct 2015 

My tapering program   My Intro (goes to my tapering graph)  My website

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions.

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  • Moderator Emeritus

The only supplements which SA recommends are magnesium and omega 3 fish oil.  Only make one change at a time.  Try a small amount, one at a time to see how you react.

 

Magnesium
 

Omega-3 Fish Oil

 

Keep it Simple, Slow and Stable

 

And here are some helpful topics:


Non-drug techniques to cope

Sleep problems - that awful withdrawal insomnia

 

NEW!!!     INTERVIEW with Altostrata, SA's founder    NEW!!! 

 

Plodding along inch by inch:  12" = 1',  3' =  36 " or 1 yard,  1760 yards  = 63,360" or 1 mile

Current from 6 Mar 2021:  Pristiq 0.328 mg

ADs since ~1992:  25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering Oct 2015 

My tapering program   My Intro (goes to my tapering graph)  My website

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions.

Link to post

Thank you so much for the detailed response and information! I will certainly review each one. I will make the switch to a smaller liquid dose tomorrow.

2012-2019 on-and-off: Zoloft, Celexa, with WD

2019: Stopped Zoloft, withdrawal, started Brintellix 10mg

2020 July-Nov 21: Brintellix 15mg

2021 Jan: Brintellix 13.5mg, liquid form

Link to post
  • Moderator Emeritus

You are very welcome.  Please come back and let us know how it goes.

 

Because you experienced issues with your sleep after you started taking tablet/liquid at the same dose, when it comes time to start tapering you might consider doing a small test reduction to see how you respond.  You could try reducing by 1% and see how that goes.  If after 2 weeks you feel okay then you could make a larger reduction, eg 5% and hold on that for a 3-4 weeks.  It's important to listen to your body/symptoms which I think you already know.

 

If you are concerned about doing a 10% reduction about every 4 weeks, you might consider this gentler taper method:

 

Brass Monkey Slide 

 

Here is another helpful topic:

 

how-to-make-a-liquid-from-tablets-or-capsules

 

NEW!!!     INTERVIEW with Altostrata, SA's founder    NEW!!! 

 

Plodding along inch by inch:  12" = 1',  3' =  36 " or 1 yard,  1760 yards  = 63,360" or 1 mile

Current from 6 Mar 2021:  Pristiq 0.328 mg

ADs since ~1992:  25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering Oct 2015 

My tapering program   My Intro (goes to my tapering graph)  My website

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions.

Link to post
  • Moderator Emeritus

There are many existing topics on this site.  Use a search engine and add site:survivingantidepressants.org to the search term.

NEW!!!     INTERVIEW with Altostrata, SA's founder    NEW!!! 

 

Plodding along inch by inch:  12" = 1',  3' =  36 " or 1 yard,  1760 yards  = 63,360" or 1 mile

Current from 6 Mar 2021:  Pristiq 0.328 mg

ADs since ~1992:  25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering Oct 2015 

My tapering program   My Intro (goes to my tapering graph)  My website

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions.

Link to post

Thank you!

 

I’ve done the 2.5mg liquid, 12.5mg pill for two days now. Still having interrupted sleep, but not as bad as when I started out.

 

I will look into the Brassmonkey Slide method, as it sounds suitable for me. I’m currently waiting for my syringes and other tools to arrive before starting the taper. For now, I will just continue with transitioning slowly to liquid form.

2012-2019 on-and-off: Zoloft, Celexa, with WD

2019: Stopped Zoloft, withdrawal, started Brintellix 10mg

2020 July-Nov 21: Brintellix 15mg

2021 Jan: Brintellix 13.5mg, liquid form

Link to post
  • 1 month later...

 Hello Wumay, 

Could you update me on your situation ? did the water solution worked out for you ? 

  • 2012 : Started antidepressants, almost without interruption until now. I tried many different sorts (Effexor, Zoloft, Brintellix, Prozac...). Tried stopping multiple times with fast tapers but always ending up back on them again
  • November 2019 Tapered pretty quickly Brintellix, no major WD symptoms but original anxiety and depression came back
  • March 2020: Started LEXAPRO 15mg
  • April 2020: lowered to 10mg Lexapro, no major WD
  • Mai 2020 : 7,5mg then 5mg Lexapro, no major WD
  • June 2020 : lowered to 2,5mg --> major WD 
  • July 2020 : back on Lexapro 10mg and started probiotics which helped a lot (also with acne)
  • September 2020 : BIG MISTAKE of lowering to 7,5mg (so a 25% decrease which is way too much, especially after such a recent bad experience of WD, nervous system didn't have time to repair), anhedonia hits immediately (like right on the day of the decrease)
  • (1 December 2020: Tried the liquid formulation --> doesn't work on me, it's like I didn't take my meds)
  • 5 December 2020 : Decides to up my dose because my mood doesn't seem to improve -->9,375 (by crushing in 2 a 15mg pill (so 7,5mg) and crushing in 4 with a pill cutter a 5mg pill(so 1,25mg) and crushing it in 8 (so 0,625mg) waiting to see how it goes.
  • 5 January 2020 : back on 10mg again--> Bad insomnia although good enough mood 
  • 25 January : Back on 8,75mg, sleep back to normal, anhedonia
  • February :
  1. Started the process of converting my solid dose to a liquid "homemade" dose --> progressively figured out that for me the liquid was way more powerful than the solid and turns out that the equivalent liquid dose for 8,75mg solid was 3,5mg liquid. Of course it is very personal (might not be the same for everybody) and averaged
  2. Stopped my probiotics, they served their time, did an amazing job at curing my cystic acne and other medical stuff (including repetitive mycosis) + I quit sugar (even from fruits and I think that it's thanks to that decision that I no longer needed probiotics) + started OMAD (One Meal A Day)
  • March 1st : 3,5mg homemade liquide (by dissolving my med in water and then extraction wanted amount with a seringue)

 

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On 11/24/2020 at 12:08 AM, ChessieCat said:

That is good that you are doing a cross over from the tablet to liquid.  It is gentler on your system

Hello ChessieCat, why is the liquid gentler on the system ? 

  • 2012 : Started antidepressants, almost without interruption until now. I tried many different sorts (Effexor, Zoloft, Brintellix, Prozac...). Tried stopping multiple times with fast tapers but always ending up back on them again
  • November 2019 Tapered pretty quickly Brintellix, no major WD symptoms but original anxiety and depression came back
  • March 2020: Started LEXAPRO 15mg
  • April 2020: lowered to 10mg Lexapro, no major WD
  • Mai 2020 : 7,5mg then 5mg Lexapro, no major WD
  • June 2020 : lowered to 2,5mg --> major WD 
  • July 2020 : back on Lexapro 10mg and started probiotics which helped a lot (also with acne)
  • September 2020 : BIG MISTAKE of lowering to 7,5mg (so a 25% decrease which is way too much, especially after such a recent bad experience of WD, nervous system didn't have time to repair), anhedonia hits immediately (like right on the day of the decrease)
  • (1 December 2020: Tried the liquid formulation --> doesn't work on me, it's like I didn't take my meds)
  • 5 December 2020 : Decides to up my dose because my mood doesn't seem to improve -->9,375 (by crushing in 2 a 15mg pill (so 7,5mg) and crushing in 4 with a pill cutter a 5mg pill(so 1,25mg) and crushing it in 8 (so 0,625mg) waiting to see how it goes.
  • 5 January 2020 : back on 10mg again--> Bad insomnia although good enough mood 
  • 25 January : Back on 8,75mg, sleep back to normal, anhedonia
  • February :
  1. Started the process of converting my solid dose to a liquid "homemade" dose --> progressively figured out that for me the liquid was way more powerful than the solid and turns out that the equivalent liquid dose for 8,75mg solid was 3,5mg liquid. Of course it is very personal (might not be the same for everybody) and averaged
  2. Stopped my probiotics, they served their time, did an amazing job at curing my cystic acne and other medical stuff (including repetitive mycosis) + I quit sugar (even from fruits and I think that it's thanks to that decision that I no longer needed probiotics) + started OMAD (One Meal A Day)
  • March 1st : 3,5mg homemade liquide (by dissolving my med in water and then extraction wanted amount with a seringue)

 

Link to post
On 1/12/2021 at 8:51 PM, Camille said:

 Hello Wumay, 

Could you update me on your situation ? did the water solution worked out for you ? 

Hi, sorry for the late reply. It's been a busy start to the new year. Yes, the water solution worked out well for me. It doesn't take long for the pills to dissolve. I am currently at 13.5mg, which is 90% of my original dose.

2012-2019 on-and-off: Zoloft, Celexa, with WD

2019: Stopped Zoloft, withdrawal, started Brintellix 10mg

2020 July-Nov 21: Brintellix 15mg

2021 Jan: Brintellix 13.5mg, liquid form

Link to post
On 1/12/2021 at 9:30 PM, Camille said:

Hello ChessieCat, why is the liquid gentler on the system ? 

I think they were referring to crossing over slowly from pill to liquid (slowly increasing the amount of liquid consumed instead of consuming all liquid at once). It's gentler on the system because the body seems to metabolise liquid form differently and that might cause side effects in some people.

2012-2019 on-and-off: Zoloft, Celexa, with WD

2019: Stopped Zoloft, withdrawal, started Brintellix 10mg

2020 July-Nov 21: Brintellix 15mg

2021 Jan: Brintellix 13.5mg, liquid form

Link to post

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