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Nomansland: mirtazapine - my biggest enemy


Nomansland

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Hi,

 

hope you all doing quite well.

 

Would like to ask something. After i went from 10 mg to 8 mg in september, i went back to 10 mg after 7 days because of withdrawal.

I know that my condition is because off the fast taper overall, not just the last reduction. But what updose would you have advice when

i went from 10 mg to 8 mg....so after 7 days on 8 mg, was the updose to 10 mg wayyyy to much or was it ok? I try to learn a bit.

 

Greetings!

 

p.s.: Oh and i noticed that the tag on this thread spells "mirtazpine". Dont know if this is important.

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non-native speaker of english

3-March 2020: started Mirtazapine 15mg
3-March to 6-april aprx cutting to 0 mg
6-April to 20-April -> ~ 7,5 mg,

21-April to 31-April -> 15 mg,

1-May to 13-May -> ~ 10 mg (approx),

15-May to 19-July -> 15 mg (psychosomatic clinic)
started taper with scale and file: 19-July 2020 -> 14 mg (-6,6%), 08-August -> 12 mg (-14,3 %), 27-August -> 10 mg (-16,6 %), 15-September -> 8 mg (-20 %, bad idea, heavy WD) 23-September -> 10.2 mg (+20 %, 102 mgpw), 2021: 12-April to 12-May crossover from solid pill to DIY liquid, still 10,2 mg

 

Supplements: 2 x 250 mg magnesiumbiglycinate daily, low histamin diet

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If your nervous about making a change the it would be a good idea to wait until you feel better about it. There should not be a problem with changing to the powder. Your body might react a little diff

Welcome to SA, Nomansland.  Thank you for completing your signature.   You've made a lot of changes in the last several months, and you are right that you need to hold where you are for seve

That looks like a good plan. See how you react to each step and take longer hold periods if necessary.   Weighing the liquid can be quite accurate if you continue to work with water. By defi

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27 minutes ago, Nomansland said:

so after 7 days on 8 mg, was the updose to 10 mg wayyyy to much or was it ok? I try to learn a bit.

 

I would've suggested updosing by no more than 0.5mg and given it a week or a little more to see if it helped. Your system was sensitized by the fast taper and you want to be careful not to overwhelm it with too much reinstatement.  If the 0.5mg increase did help, even a bit, then I would've stayed there as it can take weeks or months for an updose to do its job.  

Gridley Introduction

 

Lexapro 20 mg since 2004.  Begin Brassmonkey Slide Taper Jan. 2017.   

End 2017 year 1 of taper at 9.25mg 

End 2018 year 2 of taper at 4.1mg

End 2019 year 3 of taper at 1.0mg  

Oct. 30, 2020  Jump to zero from 0.025mg.  Current dose: 0.000mg

3 year, 10 month taper is 100% complete.

 

Ativan 1 mg 1986-1991 CT, soon reinstated.  CT 2000. RI 1 mg 2011-2016.  Sept. 2016  0.625mg X 3

Nov.27, 2020, 7-week Ativan-Valium crossover + change to one 18.75mg dose, w/1 month hold.

Feb. 9, 2021, begin 10% every 4 weeks taper.  Current dose as of June 15: 10.5mgai.  Taper is  44% complete.

 

Imipramine 75 mg daily since 1986.  Jan. 2016 began every 3-weeks 10% taper, down to 16mgai (44mgpw).  Aug 2016, discovered SA, holding at 16mg.  Taper is 78% complete.  

  

Supplements: omega, vitamins C, E and D3, magnesium glycinate, probiotic, zinc, melatonin .3mg.


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice, but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

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Hey Gridley,

 

thank you for your opinion! Hope i havent screwed up everything....had some really good days lately.

Wish you all the best for your benzo taper!

 

Greetings

2021 IMPORTANT WITHDRAWAL SURVEY, PLEASE PARTICIPATE: https://uelpsych.eu.qualtrics.com/jfe/form/SV_0AR9IsQ61jsiXBk

 

non-native speaker of english

3-March 2020: started Mirtazapine 15mg
3-March to 6-april aprx cutting to 0 mg
6-April to 20-April -> ~ 7,5 mg,

21-April to 31-April -> 15 mg,

1-May to 13-May -> ~ 10 mg (approx),

15-May to 19-July -> 15 mg (psychosomatic clinic)
started taper with scale and file: 19-July 2020 -> 14 mg (-6,6%), 08-August -> 12 mg (-14,3 %), 27-August -> 10 mg (-16,6 %), 15-September -> 8 mg (-20 %, bad idea, heavy WD) 23-September -> 10.2 mg (+20 %, 102 mgpw), 2021: 12-April to 12-May crossover from solid pill to DIY liquid, still 10,2 mg

 

Supplements: 2 x 250 mg magnesiumbiglycinate daily, low histamin diet

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14 minutes ago, Nomansland said:

had some really good days lately.

Wish you all the best for your benzo taper!

You'll be fine. That's great you've had some good days.  And thanks for your best wishes.

Gridley Introduction

 

Lexapro 20 mg since 2004.  Begin Brassmonkey Slide Taper Jan. 2017.   

End 2017 year 1 of taper at 9.25mg 

End 2018 year 2 of taper at 4.1mg

End 2019 year 3 of taper at 1.0mg  

Oct. 30, 2020  Jump to zero from 0.025mg.  Current dose: 0.000mg

3 year, 10 month taper is 100% complete.

 

Ativan 1 mg 1986-1991 CT, soon reinstated.  CT 2000. RI 1 mg 2011-2016.  Sept. 2016  0.625mg X 3

Nov.27, 2020, 7-week Ativan-Valium crossover + change to one 18.75mg dose, w/1 month hold.

Feb. 9, 2021, begin 10% every 4 weeks taper.  Current dose as of June 15: 10.5mgai.  Taper is  44% complete.

 

Imipramine 75 mg daily since 1986.  Jan. 2016 began every 3-weeks 10% taper, down to 16mgai (44mgpw).  Aug 2016, discovered SA, holding at 16mg.  Taper is 78% complete.  

  

Supplements: omega, vitamins C, E and D3, magnesium glycinate, probiotic, zinc, melatonin .3mg.


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice, but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

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  • 4 weeks later...
Nomansland

Hello everyone,

 

i will give an update soon .Having a question...

 

Is it possible that a tablet gets "stuck" in your throat after taking it (even with much water).

Are there ways to get around it? Ive always had problem taking tablets. I tried to put it in a small

capsules that i cut down to make swalloing easier, but it seems like it made it worse.

 

Well...making liquid would be a good idea, but have to make the transition first.

 

Any thoughts making it easier to swallow the tablet?

 

Greetings

 

Nomansland

2021 IMPORTANT WITHDRAWAL SURVEY, PLEASE PARTICIPATE: https://uelpsych.eu.qualtrics.com/jfe/form/SV_0AR9IsQ61jsiXBk

 

non-native speaker of english

3-March 2020: started Mirtazapine 15mg
3-March to 6-april aprx cutting to 0 mg
6-April to 20-April -> ~ 7,5 mg,

21-April to 31-April -> 15 mg,

1-May to 13-May -> ~ 10 mg (approx),

15-May to 19-July -> 15 mg (psychosomatic clinic)
started taper with scale and file: 19-July 2020 -> 14 mg (-6,6%), 08-August -> 12 mg (-14,3 %), 27-August -> 10 mg (-16,6 %), 15-September -> 8 mg (-20 %, bad idea, heavy WD) 23-September -> 10.2 mg (+20 %, 102 mgpw), 2021: 12-April to 12-May crossover from solid pill to DIY liquid, still 10,2 mg

 

Supplements: 2 x 250 mg magnesiumbiglycinate daily, low histamin diet

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ChessieCat

The feeling you get is probably just after the tablet has rubbed against the inside of your throat.  I've had this happen and it feels like the tablet is still stuck even after drinking a lot of water.

 

You could try taking the tablet with some milk.  I imagine that full cream would be the best, ie not skim or low fat.  Swallow some milk first and the take the tablet with more milk.  Another option would be putting some yoghurt or custard in your mouth and then the tablet and swallowing that.

 

And I just did a search and found this handy tip, which I didn't know about.  I've always tilted my head backwards.  Must try doing it this way instead:

 

From https://swallowingdifficulties.com/patients/what-is-a-tablet/how-to-take-tablets/

 

Quote

 

Tips for swallowing tablets:

Many people instinctively tilt their head backwards when swallowing a tablet but this may actually make it harder to swallow as it narrows the pipe connecting your mouth to your stomach. Instead, putting your head down when swallowing will help to make the pipe wider and should make the tablet easier to swallow.

 

 

 

NEW!!!     INTERVIEW with Altostrata, SA's founder    NEW!!! 

 

Plodding along inch by inch:  12" = 1',  3' =  36 " or 1 yard,  1760 yards  = 63,360" or 1 mile

Current from 17 Apr 2021:  Pristiq 0.2665mg  now holding each dose for 3 weeks

ADs since ~1992:  25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering Oct 2015 

My tapering program   My Intro (goes to my tapering graph)  My website

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions.

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Nomansland

Hello Cat,

 

thank you for your answer.

 

The last 2 days ive trief the following: Before i put the tablet in my mouth, i chew a bit of something (ginger, cheese) than put the tablet

in the mouth and drink a lot of water afterwards. Seems to work.

 

Greetings

 

Nomansland

2021 IMPORTANT WITHDRAWAL SURVEY, PLEASE PARTICIPATE: https://uelpsych.eu.qualtrics.com/jfe/form/SV_0AR9IsQ61jsiXBk

 

non-native speaker of english

3-March 2020: started Mirtazapine 15mg
3-March to 6-april aprx cutting to 0 mg
6-April to 20-April -> ~ 7,5 mg,

21-April to 31-April -> 15 mg,

1-May to 13-May -> ~ 10 mg (approx),

15-May to 19-July -> 15 mg (psychosomatic clinic)
started taper with scale and file: 19-July 2020 -> 14 mg (-6,6%), 08-August -> 12 mg (-14,3 %), 27-August -> 10 mg (-16,6 %), 15-September -> 8 mg (-20 %, bad idea, heavy WD) 23-September -> 10.2 mg (+20 %, 102 mgpw), 2021: 12-April to 12-May crossover from solid pill to DIY liquid, still 10,2 mg

 

Supplements: 2 x 250 mg magnesiumbiglycinate daily, low histamin diet

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  • 2 weeks later...
Nomansland

Hello everyone,

 

sending you a lot of healing!

 

Well....how do i feel?

I can tell that my symptoms slowly start to abate. Some more and some less.

 

- heavy vertigo moments are gone, little dizzy in some stress moments

- inner restlessness is weaker, but my main symptom right now

- stress resistents stays low

- light and sound sensitivity is less

- cold hands and feets are nearly gone

- sleep is okay but not normal, takes very long to fall asleep, but iam getting enough (with the odd bad night here and there)

 

I think i need to wait a bit more to be ready for the taper. Iam not in hell or some sort of, but i feel uncomfortable at times.

Even have some days with nearly no symptoms, which is great.

 

When i begin to switch over to liquid, i will use pipettes. Think i overdid it a bit to buy so many tools for liquid tapering..but better

to have them in case you need them (magnetic stirrer, pipettes in various sizes...). I can be extremly precise later.

They are not that good for traveling though..

 

So a few thoughts/questions:

 

- Thinking about 150 ml of water for 15mg Mirt. So a 10:1 ratio. 1ml would be 0,1mgai. But, if i use less water, i could use only one pipette...

   which is better in terms of consistency. So maybe about 100 ml? Iam not sure. Using only one pipette would be so much more handy, but i dont

   want to use to less water.

 

- Right now iam weighting 102mgpw which will give me 10mgai. (Iam assuming that its better to stay at one weight, since its evenly distributed).

   Is i said above my pills weigh from 148 to 158 mgpw. So lets assume its evenly distributed...that would mean that i dont get 15 mg mirt, everytime i 

   use it in liquid taper (AIC (Active Ingredient Concentration) is 0,1 mgai for 1 mgpw)). 158 mgpw would be 15,8 mgai and 148 mgpw would be 14,8 mgai (which is a crazy difference).

  -> Seeing that i feel like my dosing is more accurate right now as i always get 102 mgpw with weighting, instead of the idea of the future liquid taper.

 

Hope you get what i mean....its a bit hard for me to describe it in english. ( :

What do you think about the liquid taper "problem" ?

 

To do: i will weigh a batch of tablets again....just to see how "different" they are now.

 

 

Greetings

 

Nomansland

 

 

 

 

 

 

2021 IMPORTANT WITHDRAWAL SURVEY, PLEASE PARTICIPATE: https://uelpsych.eu.qualtrics.com/jfe/form/SV_0AR9IsQ61jsiXBk

 

non-native speaker of english

3-March 2020: started Mirtazapine 15mg
3-March to 6-april aprx cutting to 0 mg
6-April to 20-April -> ~ 7,5 mg,

21-April to 31-April -> 15 mg,

1-May to 13-May -> ~ 10 mg (approx),

15-May to 19-July -> 15 mg (psychosomatic clinic)
started taper with scale and file: 19-July 2020 -> 14 mg (-6,6%), 08-August -> 12 mg (-14,3 %), 27-August -> 10 mg (-16,6 %), 15-September -> 8 mg (-20 %, bad idea, heavy WD) 23-September -> 10.2 mg (+20 %, 102 mgpw), 2021: 12-April to 12-May crossover from solid pill to DIY liquid, still 10,2 mg

 

Supplements: 2 x 250 mg magnesiumbiglycinate daily, low histamin diet

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Nomansland

Hello everyone,

 

sadly i got no reply yet, but i know you have a lot things to do and many new members. ❤️

 

I did my "math" again and weighted 15 tablets of 15 mgai mirtazapine.

 

1: 152 mgpw

2: 150 mgpw

3: 155 mgpw

4: 156 mgpw

5: 151 mgpw

6: 156 mgpw

7: 155 mgpw

8: 153 mgpw

9: 152 mgpw

10: 154 mgpw

11: 152 mgpw

12: 152 mgpw

13: 155 mgpw

14: 151 mgpw

15: 150 mgpw

 

-> Average: 152.93 -> 153 mgpw

-> AIC: 0.098mgai per 1mgpw -> 0.1 mgai (it makes a difference which one i use...153 mgpw * 0.1 mgai = 15.30 mgai | 153mgpw * 0.098 mgai = 14.99 mgai)

-> So 1 mgpw or 1ml of liquid would give me 0.1 mgai

 

Right now i take 102 mgpw per Gemini scale = 10 mgai. This is based on the average of 153 mgpw, NOT the AIC.....when i use the AIC it would be 10.2 mgai. So would do i assume?

 

When i make liquid one 150 mgpw tablet one day...that would give me a different ratio than the 156 mgpw tablet i (could) use the next day. Using the AIC, the difference would be 0.6 mgai,

which is a HUGE day-to-day difference in my opinion.

All that while assuming that the ingredients are evenly distributed in the tablet (which i believe) -> that would mean i do not have just 0.6 mg extra/less tablet filler.

 

I have thought about one solution (maybe?): I could prepare the tablet using the gemini scale to get them all to lets say 153 mgpw BEFORE i use them for liquid tapering, of course this would

add another variable, which i dont like. -> BUT i think the weighting from the scale could be off by 1mg to each side, which is better than the 0.6 mgpw difference between the not prepared tablets.

 

And as i said before the last time i weighted a batch of pills i also found pills weighting 148mgpw...which would "add" another 2 mgpw to the inconsistency.

 

Yes, maybe i overthink this all a bit too much. But here is the place to discuss methods and get opinions right? So its not too "freaky" i hope.

Oh, and i think iam feeling a huge stabilisation right now. Hope its baseline stabilisation...!

 

Greetings

 

Nomansland

2021 IMPORTANT WITHDRAWAL SURVEY, PLEASE PARTICIPATE: https://uelpsych.eu.qualtrics.com/jfe/form/SV_0AR9IsQ61jsiXBk

 

non-native speaker of english

3-March 2020: started Mirtazapine 15mg
3-March to 6-april aprx cutting to 0 mg
6-April to 20-April -> ~ 7,5 mg,

21-April to 31-April -> 15 mg,

1-May to 13-May -> ~ 10 mg (approx),

15-May to 19-July -> 15 mg (psychosomatic clinic)
started taper with scale and file: 19-July 2020 -> 14 mg (-6,6%), 08-August -> 12 mg (-14,3 %), 27-August -> 10 mg (-16,6 %), 15-September -> 8 mg (-20 %, bad idea, heavy WD) 23-September -> 10.2 mg (+20 %, 102 mgpw), 2021: 12-April to 12-May crossover from solid pill to DIY liquid, still 10,2 mg

 

Supplements: 2 x 250 mg magnesiumbiglycinate daily, low histamin diet

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ChessieCat

using-a-digital-scale-to-measure-doses-weighing

 

In the above topic BrassMonkey explains about weighing 10 tablets and calculating active ingredient in a certain amount of powder.  You then crush the 10 tablets and use that as stock pile from which you take some powder and weigh it.  Below are links to posts by BrassMonkey which I found when I searched for the word "pile":

 

using-a-digital-scale-to-measure-doses-weighing/page/5/?tab=comments#comment-373112

 

using-a-digital-scale-to-measure-doses-weighing/page/8/?tab=comments#comment-434382

 

using-a-digital-scale-to-measure-doses-weighing/page/8/?tab=comments#comment-438833

 

using-a-digital-scale-to-measure-doses-weighing/page/10/?tab=comments#comment-511740

 

 

On 2/3/2021 at 11:56 AM, Nomansland said:

When i begin to switch over to liquid

 

I don't know if tablets of mirtazapine can be made into a liquid.  I think other members have used SolTabs to do this.

 

The following is the Remeron / mirtazapine topic where you might some information.  You might find posts by members making a liquid and you could visit their Introduction topic.  The other option would be to search for the drug name in the Introduction Forum to find other members:

 

tips-for-tapering-off-mirtazapine-remeron

 

NEW!!!     INTERVIEW with Altostrata, SA's founder    NEW!!! 

 

Plodding along inch by inch:  12" = 1',  3' =  36 " or 1 yard,  1760 yards  = 63,360" or 1 mile

Current from 17 Apr 2021:  Pristiq 0.2665mg  now holding each dose for 3 weeks

ADs since ~1992:  25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering Oct 2015 

My tapering program   My Intro (goes to my tapering graph)  My website

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions.

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Nomansland

Hello Cat,

 

thank you for your answer!

I know that brassmonkey talks about a "supply pile" when it comes to use powder. Sadly, i have a big problem swallow pills (which would be used with the powder).

 

Assuming the good distribution in a tablet, i know he also talked about using the whole tablet as a supply pile, when someone dont want/can crush the tablet. For me, i think file a tablet to 102 mgpw is a lot easier to handle and fast (maybe 2-5 min for one tablet) and easier to store. At least for now before i want to cross over to liquid.

 

Regarding your thoughts about making liquid from the normal tablet (not SolTab). In the german taper forum, i know that nearly everyone uses normal tablets to make mirt DIY liquid . I also found various (german) prescribing information from hospitals and pharmacy and my manufacturer (Zentiva), saying that the normal mirtazapine tablets (at least the 15mg i have) can be split to equal doses and crushed to make suspensions to make it probe-compatible for patients not able to swallow etc. So iam quite sure it is very possible to make a DIY liquid given all this informations. Maybe it helps others if they search for this.


 

 

14 hours ago, Nomansland said:

I did my "math" again and weighted 15 tablets of 15 mgai mirtazapine.

 

1: 152 mgpw

2: 150 mgpw

3: 155 mgpw

4: 156 mgpw

5: 151 mgpw

6: 156 mgpw

7: 155 mgpw

8: 153 mgpw

9: 152 mgpw

10: 154 mgpw

11: 152 mgpw

12: 152 mgpw

13: 155 mgpw

14: 151 mgpw

15: 150 mgpw

 

-> Average: 152.93 -> 153 mgpw

-> AIC: 0.098mgai per 1mgpw -> 0.1 mgai (it makes a difference which one i use...153 mgpw * 0.1 mgai = 15.30 mgai | 153mgpw * 0.098 mgai = 14.99 mgai)

-> So 1 mgpw or 1ml of liquid would give me 0.1 mgai

 

Right now i take 102 mgpw per Gemini scale = 10 mgai. This is based on the average of 153 mgpw, NOT the AIC.....when i use the AIC it would be 10.2 mgai. So would do i assume?

 

When i make liquid (just water) from one 150 mgpw tablet one day...that would give me a different ratio than the 156 mgpw tablet i (could) use the next day. Using the AIC, the difference would be 0.6 mgai, which is a HUGE day-to-day difference in my opinion.

All that while assuming that the ingredients are evenly distributed in the tablet (which i believe) -> that would mean i do not have just 0.6 mg extra/less tablet filler.

 

I have thought about one solution (maybe?): I could prepare the tablet using the gemini scale to get them all to lets say 150 mgpw (?) BEFORE i use them for liquid tapering, of course this would add another variable, which i dont like. -> BUT i think the weighting from the scale could be off by 1mg to each side, which is better than the 0.6 mgpw difference between the not prepared tablets.

 

And as i said before the last time i weighted a batch of pills i also found pills weighting 148mgpw...which would "add" another 2 mgpw to the inconsistency.

@brassmonkey@Rhiannon@manymoretodays@Shep

 

I know you guys "like" to help with the math and give advices. Maybe you can read my last post and help whats the best way to proceed?

 

 

Greetings

 

Nomansland

2021 IMPORTANT WITHDRAWAL SURVEY, PLEASE PARTICIPATE: https://uelpsych.eu.qualtrics.com/jfe/form/SV_0AR9IsQ61jsiXBk

 

non-native speaker of english

3-March 2020: started Mirtazapine 15mg
3-March to 6-april aprx cutting to 0 mg
6-April to 20-April -> ~ 7,5 mg,

21-April to 31-April -> 15 mg,

1-May to 13-May -> ~ 10 mg (approx),

15-May to 19-July -> 15 mg (psychosomatic clinic)
started taper with scale and file: 19-July 2020 -> 14 mg (-6,6%), 08-August -> 12 mg (-14,3 %), 27-August -> 10 mg (-16,6 %), 15-September -> 8 mg (-20 %, bad idea, heavy WD) 23-September -> 10.2 mg (+20 %, 102 mgpw), 2021: 12-April to 12-May crossover from solid pill to DIY liquid, still 10,2 mg

 

Supplements: 2 x 250 mg magnesiumbiglycinate daily, low histamin diet

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  • Moderator Emeritus
ChessieCat

Instead of using capsules you can use food.  Another example would be using pudding, custard or yoghurt:

 

how-to-make-a-liquid-from-tablets-or-capsules

 

NEW!!!     INTERVIEW with Altostrata, SA's founder    NEW!!! 

 

Plodding along inch by inch:  12" = 1',  3' =  36 " or 1 yard,  1760 yards  = 63,360" or 1 mile

Current from 17 Apr 2021:  Pristiq 0.2665mg  now holding each dose for 3 weeks

ADs since ~1992:  25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering Oct 2015 

My tapering program   My Intro (goes to my tapering graph)  My website

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions.

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  • Moderator Emeritus
ChessieCat
5 hours ago, Nomansland said:

Regarding your thoughts about making liquid from the normal tablet (not SolTab). In the german taper forum, i know that nearly everyone uses normal tablets to make mirt DIY liquid . I also found various (german) prescribing information from hospitals and pharmacy and my manufacturer (Zentiva), saying that the normal mirtazapine tablets (at least the 15mg i have) can be split to equal doses and crushed to make suspensions to make it probe-compatible for patients not able to swallow etc. So iam quite sure it is very possible to make a DIY liquid given all this informations. Maybe it helps others if they search for this.

 

Please provide this information and links in this topic.  If it needs to be translated https://www.deepl.com/translator translator is very good.

 

tips-for-tapering-off-mirtazapine-remeron

 

 

Edited by ChessieCat

NEW!!!     INTERVIEW with Altostrata, SA's founder    NEW!!! 

 

Plodding along inch by inch:  12" = 1',  3' =  36 " or 1 yard,  1760 yards  = 63,360" or 1 mile

Current from 17 Apr 2021:  Pristiq 0.2665mg  now holding each dose for 3 weeks

ADs since ~1992:  25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering Oct 2015 

My tapering program   My Intro (goes to my tapering graph)  My website

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions.

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  • Moderator
brassmonkey

The reason for using the "supply pile" of powder is to get around the inconsistencies of the tablets. You only take the exact amount you need from the pile and save the rest for later. If the inconsistency of the tablets is a problem then using the exact amount of powder to make up a liquid would be the most accurate method. Mirtazapine does not dissolve well in water so you will have to make a "suspension" with the powder hanging in the water like a cloud.

 

If taking pills is a problem then sprinkling the powder on some apple sauce or chocolate pudding is a very workable idea. Barely mix it in so you know you will be getting all the powder in the first few bites (CC posted about this as I was typing).

20 years on Paxil starting at 20mg and working up to 40mg. Sept 2011 started 10% every 6 weeks taper (2.5% every week for 4 weeks then hold for 2 additional weeks), currently at 7.9mg. Oct 2011 CTed 15oz vodka a night, to only drinking 2 beers most nights, totally sober Feb 2013.

Since I wrote this I have continued to decrease my dose by 10% every 6 weeks (2.5% every week for 4 weeks and then hold for an additional 2 weeks). I added in an extra 6 week hold when I hit 10mg to let things settle out even more. When I hit 3mgpw it became hard to split the drop into 4 parts so I switched to dropping 1mgpw (pill weight) every week for 3 weeks and then holding for another 3 weeks.  The 3 + 3 schedule turned out to be too harsh so I cut back to dropping 1mgpw every 4 weeks which is working better.

Current dose 0.000mg 04-15-2017

 

"It's also important not to become angry, no matter how difficult life is, because you can loose all hope if you can't laugh at yourself and at life in general."  Stephen Hawking

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Nomansland

Hello,

 

@cat and @brassmonkey, thank you!

 

Could i take a tablet filed to 150 mgpw each time when i prepare liquid tapering?

Would this be ok and as good as a the powder supply pile? It would make it so much easier to prepare and store and just let it dissolve each day.

(with powder i would have to prepare it everyday, or store it in capsules, which i would have to "wash out" in to the water)

I assume, if its evenly distributed in a tablet, this would make it much easier to handle for me, than powder for liquid tapering.

 

I know that mirt does not dissolve well, thats why i will use a magnetic stirrer with water (cant get a suspension "addon" here).

Have made a test and it suspended quite evenly in water while stirring. Like you said "powder hanging like a cloud in water".

 

You know...everything i want...is a stable ground for making my DIY liquid.

Where i can say: "Ok, i have this amount of drug and will make a suspension out of it".

But i cant get this with a WHOLE tablet, because they differ. I would like to use a filed one...or powder of course, but an accurat filed one

would be so much easier to handle. ( :

 

Greetings

 

 

 

 

2021 IMPORTANT WITHDRAWAL SURVEY, PLEASE PARTICIPATE: https://uelpsych.eu.qualtrics.com/jfe/form/SV_0AR9IsQ61jsiXBk

 

non-native speaker of english

3-March 2020: started Mirtazapine 15mg
3-March to 6-april aprx cutting to 0 mg
6-April to 20-April -> ~ 7,5 mg,

21-April to 31-April -> 15 mg,

1-May to 13-May -> ~ 10 mg (approx),

15-May to 19-July -> 15 mg (psychosomatic clinic)
started taper with scale and file: 19-July 2020 -> 14 mg (-6,6%), 08-August -> 12 mg (-14,3 %), 27-August -> 10 mg (-16,6 %), 15-September -> 8 mg (-20 %, bad idea, heavy WD) 23-September -> 10.2 mg (+20 %, 102 mgpw), 2021: 12-April to 12-May crossover from solid pill to DIY liquid, still 10,2 mg

 

Supplements: 2 x 250 mg magnesiumbiglycinate daily, low histamin diet

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  • Moderator
brassmonkey

You can crush half a dozen or more tablets and keep the powder in a small bottle for several months and only take out as much as you need for each day. The powder will be easier to make into a suspension than waiting for a tablet to dissolve. But yes, you could file each tablet to the desired weight and use them to make up the liquid.

20 years on Paxil starting at 20mg and working up to 40mg. Sept 2011 started 10% every 6 weeks taper (2.5% every week for 4 weeks then hold for 2 additional weeks), currently at 7.9mg. Oct 2011 CTed 15oz vodka a night, to only drinking 2 beers most nights, totally sober Feb 2013.

Since I wrote this I have continued to decrease my dose by 10% every 6 weeks (2.5% every week for 4 weeks and then hold for an additional 2 weeks). I added in an extra 6 week hold when I hit 10mg to let things settle out even more. When I hit 3mgpw it became hard to split the drop into 4 parts so I switched to dropping 1mgpw (pill weight) every week for 3 weeks and then holding for another 3 weeks.  The 3 + 3 schedule turned out to be too harsh so I cut back to dropping 1mgpw every 4 weeks which is working better.

Current dose 0.000mg 04-15-2017

 

"It's also important not to become angry, no matter how difficult life is, because you can loose all hope if you can't laugh at yourself and at life in general."  Stephen Hawking

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Nomansland

Thanks @brassmonkey

 

Youre right...iam just concerned that i would need to weigh the powder each day to get the amount i need, while i can prepare and store many accuratly filed tablets quite fast...Yes, i could store the powder in capsules maybe..but that would add another time consuming step and fiddle with capsules and so on...just for DIY liquid (where most people just drop there whole tablet in).

I just would have to drop one filed tablet in water and wait while stirring.

 

Greetings

2021 IMPORTANT WITHDRAWAL SURVEY, PLEASE PARTICIPATE: https://uelpsych.eu.qualtrics.com/jfe/form/SV_0AR9IsQ61jsiXBk

 

non-native speaker of english

3-March 2020: started Mirtazapine 15mg
3-March to 6-april aprx cutting to 0 mg
6-April to 20-April -> ~ 7,5 mg,

21-April to 31-April -> 15 mg,

1-May to 13-May -> ~ 10 mg (approx),

15-May to 19-July -> 15 mg (psychosomatic clinic)
started taper with scale and file: 19-July 2020 -> 14 mg (-6,6%), 08-August -> 12 mg (-14,3 %), 27-August -> 10 mg (-16,6 %), 15-September -> 8 mg (-20 %, bad idea, heavy WD) 23-September -> 10.2 mg (+20 %, 102 mgpw), 2021: 12-April to 12-May crossover from solid pill to DIY liquid, still 10,2 mg

 

Supplements: 2 x 250 mg magnesiumbiglycinate daily, low histamin diet

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  • Moderator
brassmonkey

I can see your point and that method would work fine.

20 years on Paxil starting at 20mg and working up to 40mg. Sept 2011 started 10% every 6 weeks taper (2.5% every week for 4 weeks then hold for 2 additional weeks), currently at 7.9mg. Oct 2011 CTed 15oz vodka a night, to only drinking 2 beers most nights, totally sober Feb 2013.

Since I wrote this I have continued to decrease my dose by 10% every 6 weeks (2.5% every week for 4 weeks and then hold for an additional 2 weeks). I added in an extra 6 week hold when I hit 10mg to let things settle out even more. When I hit 3mgpw it became hard to split the drop into 4 parts so I switched to dropping 1mgpw (pill weight) every week for 3 weeks and then holding for another 3 weeks.  The 3 + 3 schedule turned out to be too harsh so I cut back to dropping 1mgpw every 4 weeks which is working better.

Current dose 0.000mg 04-15-2017

 

"It's also important not to become angry, no matter how difficult life is, because you can loose all hope if you can't laugh at yourself and at life in general."  Stephen Hawking

Link to post
Nomansland

Hello @brassmonkey

 

thank you for your answer, it calms me a bit.

 

I have a question about the AIC.

 

The average of my 15mgai Mirta tablets = 153mgpw

AIC = 153mgpw/15mgai = 0.098 (precise amount) or 0.1 (rounded up amount).

 

Right now i take 102mgpw.

I want to know how much iam taking...i could use the precise amount (0.098 * 102 mgpw = 10 mgai) OR the rounded up amount (0.1 * 102mgpw = 10.2 mgai).

Which one should i take to assume the mgai iam taking right now? The precise amount or the rounded up amount?

 

Greetings

 

Nomansland

 

 

2021 IMPORTANT WITHDRAWAL SURVEY, PLEASE PARTICIPATE: https://uelpsych.eu.qualtrics.com/jfe/form/SV_0AR9IsQ61jsiXBk

 

non-native speaker of english

3-March 2020: started Mirtazapine 15mg
3-March to 6-april aprx cutting to 0 mg
6-April to 20-April -> ~ 7,5 mg,

21-April to 31-April -> 15 mg,

1-May to 13-May -> ~ 10 mg (approx),

15-May to 19-July -> 15 mg (psychosomatic clinic)
started taper with scale and file: 19-July 2020 -> 14 mg (-6,6%), 08-August -> 12 mg (-14,3 %), 27-August -> 10 mg (-16,6 %), 15-September -> 8 mg (-20 %, bad idea, heavy WD) 23-September -> 10.2 mg (+20 %, 102 mgpw), 2021: 12-April to 12-May crossover from solid pill to DIY liquid, still 10,2 mg

 

Supplements: 2 x 250 mg magnesiumbiglycinate daily, low histamin diet

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  • Moderator
brassmonkey

For your calculation of the AIC you got the correct answer, but your equation is backward. AIC is the ratio of Active Ingredient pre unit of pill weight, reduced to one. The correct equation would be 15mgai/153mgpw = 0.098.

 

In most cases we round to the larger number instead of following the standard rules of rounding. This is to error on the side of caution because making a reduction that is too large can be detrimental where as making one that is smaller will not be.

 

The minor variation caused by rounding or measuring error in the scales has very little effect on the dose strength until one reaches the Endgame Zone (which is approximately 1mgai for Mirtazapine). There are so many factors involved in taking a dose that the minor differences will not be a factor. The key to dosing is consistency, to achieve and maintain a stable blood serum concentration of the drug. That concentration can be affected by a huge number of variables, bio availability, absorption rate, time to peak concentration, half life, metabolic rate, was the dose taken with food, water, milk, how quickly the dose passes through the GI tract and many more. So having a difference of 0.2mgai between doses becomes almost irrelevant.

 

When the dose reaches the Endgame Zone, that 0.2mgai becomes a much larger percentage of the dose and then needs to be taken into consideration.  Until that time ease of making up the daily dose and consistency are much more important.

20 years on Paxil starting at 20mg and working up to 40mg. Sept 2011 started 10% every 6 weeks taper (2.5% every week for 4 weeks then hold for 2 additional weeks), currently at 7.9mg. Oct 2011 CTed 15oz vodka a night, to only drinking 2 beers most nights, totally sober Feb 2013.

Since I wrote this I have continued to decrease my dose by 10% every 6 weeks (2.5% every week for 4 weeks and then hold for an additional 2 weeks). I added in an extra 6 week hold when I hit 10mg to let things settle out even more. When I hit 3mgpw it became hard to split the drop into 4 parts so I switched to dropping 1mgpw (pill weight) every week for 3 weeks and then holding for another 3 weeks.  The 3 + 3 schedule turned out to be too harsh so I cut back to dropping 1mgpw every 4 weeks which is working better.

Current dose 0.000mg 04-15-2017

 

"It's also important not to become angry, no matter how difficult life is, because you can loose all hope if you can't laugh at yourself and at life in general."  Stephen Hawking

Link to post
Nomansland

Hello @brassmonkey,

 

thank you very much.

 

And yes your right (again!). I posted the wrong formula, silly me.

Iam asking because i when switch to liquid taper...i want to have a good starting point to measure out a ratio that makes sense. But cant get my head around it!

Guess you would suggest i just use the rounded AIC of 0.1? ...suspend 150mg of pillweight (which gives me 15mg with this AIC) in 150ml. Then 1 ml would contain 0.1 mgai.

 

Thats something i could work with.

 

When i choose the not rounded (= more precise?) AIC of 0.098 ....i wouldnt know which "starting weight" i would use for the liquid..and for the ratio....i would get odd numbers.

But maybe it would be more precise...? Of course i could just "adjust" the pill weight to get to 15mg with this not rounded AIC.

 

Sorry if this a bit confusing, but have the fear all this could result in a dose reduction while switching over to liquid.

 

Greetings

 

Nomansland

2021 IMPORTANT WITHDRAWAL SURVEY, PLEASE PARTICIPATE: https://uelpsych.eu.qualtrics.com/jfe/form/SV_0AR9IsQ61jsiXBk

 

non-native speaker of english

3-March 2020: started Mirtazapine 15mg
3-March to 6-april aprx cutting to 0 mg
6-April to 20-April -> ~ 7,5 mg,

21-April to 31-April -> 15 mg,

1-May to 13-May -> ~ 10 mg (approx),

15-May to 19-July -> 15 mg (psychosomatic clinic)
started taper with scale and file: 19-July 2020 -> 14 mg (-6,6%), 08-August -> 12 mg (-14,3 %), 27-August -> 10 mg (-16,6 %), 15-September -> 8 mg (-20 %, bad idea, heavy WD) 23-September -> 10.2 mg (+20 %, 102 mgpw), 2021: 12-April to 12-May crossover from solid pill to DIY liquid, still 10,2 mg

 

Supplements: 2 x 250 mg magnesiumbiglycinate daily, low histamin diet

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  • Moderator
brassmonkey

"Guess you would suggest i just use the rounded AIC of 0.1? ...suspend 150mg of pillweight (which gives me 15mg with this AIC) in 150ml. Then 1 ml would contain 0.1 mgai."

 

This sounds like a good plan and will give very precise control over the liquid.

 

You do know that it is not a good idea to just do a straight switch from pill to liquid? We always recommend a cross over that usually takes four steps:

75% pill 25% liquid, 50% pill 50% liquid, 25% pill 75% liquid and finally 100% liquid with a several week hold before attempting to taper. Each step should take at least a week, preferably two. The speed depends on how your body reacts. The reason is that some people don't tolerate the liquid even if it is made from the pills they have been taking all along. Also doing it this way will help even out any discrepancy between the pill dose and the liquid dose. For tapering purposes this is classified as a "dose change event" and is handled just like a reduction.

20 years on Paxil starting at 20mg and working up to 40mg. Sept 2011 started 10% every 6 weeks taper (2.5% every week for 4 weeks then hold for 2 additional weeks), currently at 7.9mg. Oct 2011 CTed 15oz vodka a night, to only drinking 2 beers most nights, totally sober Feb 2013.

Since I wrote this I have continued to decrease my dose by 10% every 6 weeks (2.5% every week for 4 weeks and then hold for an additional 2 weeks). I added in an extra 6 week hold when I hit 10mg to let things settle out even more. When I hit 3mgpw it became hard to split the drop into 4 parts so I switched to dropping 1mgpw (pill weight) every week for 3 weeks and then holding for another 3 weeks.  The 3 + 3 schedule turned out to be too harsh so I cut back to dropping 1mgpw every 4 weeks which is working better.

Current dose 0.000mg 04-15-2017

 

"It's also important not to become angry, no matter how difficult life is, because you can loose all hope if you can't laugh at yourself and at life in general."  Stephen Hawking

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Nomansland

Hello @brassmonkey,

 

thank you, you guys are awesome.

 

Guess i will use the 0.1 AIC, as you suggested and use 150 ml for 150 mgpw. That makes my current dose 10.2 mgai because i right now i take 102mgpw by scale.

 

Yes i know about the crossover period from solid pill to liquid (or any other form). I see mods suggesting about 3 days each step and others say 1 to 2 weeks?

But guess there is no "too slow" and i get that we have to listen to our body. Also i can see that if this is handled like a reduction, 3 days each step could be too less time.

 

So the crossover would be like this? (1 mgpw AND 1ml of liquid = 0.1 mgai)

           

                                solid tablet                                           liquid                                                         total                                     

              |

step 1:   |  75 % (77 mgpw = 7.7 mgai)      +       25 % (25 ml = 2.5 mgai)      =       100 % ( 7.7 mgai + 2.5 mgai = 10.2 mgai)

              |

step 2:   |  50 % (51 mgpw = 5.1 mgai)      +       50 % (51 ml = 5.1 mgai)       =       100 % ( 5.1 mgai + 5.1 mgai = 10.2 mgai)

              |

step 3:  |   25 % (25 mgpw = 2.5 mgai)     +       75 % (77 ml = 7.7 mgai)       =       100 % (2.5 mgai + 7.7 mgai = 10.2 mgai)

              |

step 4:  |                  0 % (0 mgai)               +     100 % (102 ml = 10.2 mgai)   =       100 % (0 mgai + 10.2 mgai = 10.2 mgai)

 

 

I know that a lot of members of the german taper forum go straight to liquid without crossover and its going quite ok.

(the taper itself....seems hard, sadly..😪..but i can be very precise (lab pipettes), maybe thats an advantage)

So that gives me a bit of hope. But i think i should do the crossover....i guess..

 

Greetings

 

Nomansland

2021 IMPORTANT WITHDRAWAL SURVEY, PLEASE PARTICIPATE: https://uelpsych.eu.qualtrics.com/jfe/form/SV_0AR9IsQ61jsiXBk

 

non-native speaker of english

3-March 2020: started Mirtazapine 15mg
3-March to 6-april aprx cutting to 0 mg
6-April to 20-April -> ~ 7,5 mg,

21-April to 31-April -> 15 mg,

1-May to 13-May -> ~ 10 mg (approx),

15-May to 19-July -> 15 mg (psychosomatic clinic)
started taper with scale and file: 19-July 2020 -> 14 mg (-6,6%), 08-August -> 12 mg (-14,3 %), 27-August -> 10 mg (-16,6 %), 15-September -> 8 mg (-20 %, bad idea, heavy WD) 23-September -> 10.2 mg (+20 %, 102 mgpw), 2021: 12-April to 12-May crossover from solid pill to DIY liquid, still 10,2 mg

 

Supplements: 2 x 250 mg magnesiumbiglycinate daily, low histamin diet

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  • Moderator
brassmonkey

That schedule looks fine.

 

There are a lot of people that do just jump from the pill to the liquid with no problems, but there are enough that don't it makes is so we recommend the crossover. Making changes in dosing is all about maintaining stability. Once stability is compromised it adds a lot of time to get it back before a taper can be continued and it makes the body more sensitive and easier to lose stability again. Losing stability is no fun, it's basically a massive wave of nearly acute symptoms that can take many months to resolve. We find it much better and faster to take things slow and easy and be conservative than to risk it. More times then not we have members who "want to get the drug out of their system as fast as possible" who rush things and end up taking many extra months to restabilize and start over again. For some it can be a rough lesson to learn, that going slow is faster.

 

It appears that you have a chemistry background or something similar. I spent many years as a Composites R&D engineer.

20 years on Paxil starting at 20mg and working up to 40mg. Sept 2011 started 10% every 6 weeks taper (2.5% every week for 4 weeks then hold for 2 additional weeks), currently at 7.9mg. Oct 2011 CTed 15oz vodka a night, to only drinking 2 beers most nights, totally sober Feb 2013.

Since I wrote this I have continued to decrease my dose by 10% every 6 weeks (2.5% every week for 4 weeks and then hold for an additional 2 weeks). I added in an extra 6 week hold when I hit 10mg to let things settle out even more. When I hit 3mgpw it became hard to split the drop into 4 parts so I switched to dropping 1mgpw (pill weight) every week for 3 weeks and then holding for another 3 weeks.  The 3 + 3 schedule turned out to be too harsh so I cut back to dropping 1mgpw every 4 weeks which is working better.

Current dose 0.000mg 04-15-2017

 

"It's also important not to become angry, no matter how difficult life is, because you can loose all hope if you can't laugh at yourself and at life in general."  Stephen Hawking

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  • Moderator Emeritus
ChessieCat

Some members have tried to go faster and it has ended up taking them a lot longer to get off their drug/s.  And some have ended up on an additional drug and had to taper off that too.  Or changed drugs and ended up making things a whole lot worse.

 

In general there is nothing wrong with going slow/er, but if you go faster then you do not know what will happen.  I know you have been reading my recent posts where I have been considering going faster. 😉

NEW!!!     INTERVIEW with Altostrata, SA's founder    NEW!!! 

 

Plodding along inch by inch:  12" = 1',  3' =  36 " or 1 yard,  1760 yards  = 63,360" or 1 mile

Current from 17 Apr 2021:  Pristiq 0.2665mg  now holding each dose for 3 weeks

ADs since ~1992:  25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering Oct 2015 

My tapering program   My Intro (goes to my tapering graph)  My website

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions.

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  • Moderator Emeritus
ChessieCat

And if I recall correctly, we have members tapering mirtazapine who have ended up with sleep issues.  Preserving sleep is very important.

 

Doing a careful taper by listening to your body and holding for longer when necessary will hopefully reduce the chance of this happening.

NEW!!!     INTERVIEW with Altostrata, SA's founder    NEW!!! 

 

Plodding along inch by inch:  12" = 1',  3' =  36 " or 1 yard,  1760 yards  = 63,360" or 1 mile

Current from 17 Apr 2021:  Pristiq 0.2665mg  now holding each dose for 3 weeks

ADs since ~1992:  25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering Oct 2015 

My tapering program   My Intro (goes to my tapering graph)  My website

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions.

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Nomansland

Hello @ChessieCat and @brassmonkey,

 

thanks for the replies.

 

Yes, i read your posts and thats why i was asking about how long a crossover should be done. Hope you dont think i wanted to upset you Cat! ( :

It was just to make sure what timeline i should consider. And i will take the slower and hopefull gentlyer approche, as you suggest.

 

Interesting that you worked as a Composites R&D engineer, brassmonkey. I have a degree in geoscience...well not tooooo far away from chemistry itself i guess.

 

If you refering to the post in the scale taper topic, i think its a quite important information. Even for the ones tapering liquid. If my (whole) tablets would have a difference of 10mgpw, which they do sometimes, i would have a difference of 1mgai (!) ...even while tapering with liquid.

Thats why its very important (like you say) to choose ONE WEIGHT and taper from there, scale or liquid. I tried to explain the background in the scale topic from the informations i could find.

These are just my thoughts of course...but could be something to consider when tapering with liquid or scale seems too bumpy.

 

But this whole ordeal with antidepressants has torn me from life (which wasnt easy before). Right now i feel stability is coming in big steps, thank god.

 

The whole denying of withdrawal and addiction of these "medicines" is one of the biggest medical issue of the century. No support from the medical system, with very few exceptions.  With all we know...the psychiatric system grows his own patients giving them these awful addictive drugs. And all we hear is "relapse"...i hope in a few decades, this life destroying issue with psychotropic drugs will be recognized by the public.

 

We WILL get through this!

 

Greetings

 

Nomansland

2021 IMPORTANT WITHDRAWAL SURVEY, PLEASE PARTICIPATE: https://uelpsych.eu.qualtrics.com/jfe/form/SV_0AR9IsQ61jsiXBk

 

non-native speaker of english

3-March 2020: started Mirtazapine 15mg
3-March to 6-april aprx cutting to 0 mg
6-April to 20-April -> ~ 7,5 mg,

21-April to 31-April -> 15 mg,

1-May to 13-May -> ~ 10 mg (approx),

15-May to 19-July -> 15 mg (psychosomatic clinic)
started taper with scale and file: 19-July 2020 -> 14 mg (-6,6%), 08-August -> 12 mg (-14,3 %), 27-August -> 10 mg (-16,6 %), 15-September -> 8 mg (-20 %, bad idea, heavy WD) 23-September -> 10.2 mg (+20 %, 102 mgpw), 2021: 12-April to 12-May crossover from solid pill to DIY liquid, still 10,2 mg

 

Supplements: 2 x 250 mg magnesiumbiglycinate daily, low histamin diet

Link to post
AdviceNeeded
16 minutes ago, Nomansland said:

The whole denying of withdrawal and addiction of these "medicines" is one of the biggest medical issues of the century. No support from the medical system, with very few exceptions.  With all we know...the psychiatric system grows his own patients giving them these awful adictive drugs. And all we hear is "relapse"...i hope in a few decades, this life destroying issue with psychotropic drugs will be recognized by the public.

Well said 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

25/8/2020 - 15/9/2020 - 15mg mirtazapine

16/9/2020 - 30mg mirtazapine

17/9/2020 - 22/9/2020 - 7.5 mg mirtazapine

23/9/2020 - 6/10/2020 - 3.75mg mirtazapine

7/10/2020 - 15/10/2020 - 7.5 mg mirtazapine

16/10/2020 - 20/10/2020 - 15 mg mirtazapine

21/10/2020 - 22/10/2020 - 7.5 mg mirtazapine

23/10/202 - 26/11/2020 - 15 mg mirtazapine

27/11/2020 - 10/12/2020 -13.5 mg mirtazapine

11/12/2020 - 17/12/2020 - 12 mg mirtazapine

18/12/2020 - 26/12/2020 - 11.75 mg mirtazapine

 

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  • Moderator Emeritus
ChessieCat
22 minutes ago, Nomansland said:

Yes, i read your posts and thats why i was asking about how long a crossover should be done. Hope you dont think i wanted to upset you Cat! ( :

It was just to make sure what timeline i should consider. And i will take the slower and hopefull gentlyer approche, as you suggest.

 

No offense taken.  My comments were in regards to tapering in general, and not the crossover to liquid. 

 

For the crossover I usually suggest 3-7 days on each combination but holding longer if needed.

NEW!!!     INTERVIEW with Altostrata, SA's founder    NEW!!! 

 

Plodding along inch by inch:  12" = 1',  3' =  36 " or 1 yard,  1760 yards  = 63,360" or 1 mile

Current from 17 Apr 2021:  Pristiq 0.2665mg  now holding each dose for 3 weeks

ADs since ~1992:  25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering Oct 2015 

My tapering program   My Intro (goes to my tapering graph)  My website

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions.

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  • 2 weeks later...
Nomansland

Hello @ChessieCat and @brassmonkey,

 

ive translated the leaflet from the Royal College of Psychiatrists into german.

Do you think you need the translated version here on SA? Iam not sure, but if you think there a place for it i can post the pdf via google drive.

I'd like to translate it into every known language, but sadly i only speak german and english.

 

Greetings

 

Nomansland

2021 IMPORTANT WITHDRAWAL SURVEY, PLEASE PARTICIPATE: https://uelpsych.eu.qualtrics.com/jfe/form/SV_0AR9IsQ61jsiXBk

 

non-native speaker of english

3-March 2020: started Mirtazapine 15mg
3-March to 6-april aprx cutting to 0 mg
6-April to 20-April -> ~ 7,5 mg,

21-April to 31-April -> 15 mg,

1-May to 13-May -> ~ 10 mg (approx),

15-May to 19-July -> 15 mg (psychosomatic clinic)
started taper with scale and file: 19-July 2020 -> 14 mg (-6,6%), 08-August -> 12 mg (-14,3 %), 27-August -> 10 mg (-16,6 %), 15-September -> 8 mg (-20 %, bad idea, heavy WD) 23-September -> 10.2 mg (+20 %, 102 mgpw), 2021: 12-April to 12-May crossover from solid pill to DIY liquid, still 10,2 mg

 

Supplements: 2 x 250 mg magnesiumbiglycinate daily, low histamin diet

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  • Moderator Emeritus
ChessieCat

Hi Nomansland,

 

I've asked the other mods for their thoughts about where to put the document.  It would be good if we can get other translations and add those too.

NEW!!!     INTERVIEW with Altostrata, SA's founder    NEW!!! 

 

Plodding along inch by inch:  12" = 1',  3' =  36 " or 1 yard,  1760 yards  = 63,360" or 1 mile

Current from 17 Apr 2021:  Pristiq 0.2665mg  now holding each dose for 3 weeks

ADs since ~1992:  25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering Oct 2015 

My tapering program   My Intro (goes to my tapering graph)  My website

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions.

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ChessieCat

https://www.deepl.com/en/translator

 

This seems to be a good translator.

NEW!!!     INTERVIEW with Altostrata, SA's founder    NEW!!! 

 

Plodding along inch by inch:  12" = 1',  3' =  36 " or 1 yard,  1760 yards  = 63,360" or 1 mile

Current from 17 Apr 2021:  Pristiq 0.2665mg  now holding each dose for 3 weeks

ADs since ~1992:  25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering Oct 2015 

My tapering program   My Intro (goes to my tapering graph)  My website

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions.

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Nomansland

Hello @ChessieCat,

 

this is the link to the german translation: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1niFEWe_bynWNgSRbUZc9JvKk39ZDKzpZ/view?usp=sharing

 

Ive put the link to the original website on the top of the first page and the release date. Just in case some docs

dont know about the organisation and want to see the original document.

 

I also replied to your pn.

 

Greetings

 

Nomansland

2021 IMPORTANT WITHDRAWAL SURVEY, PLEASE PARTICIPATE: https://uelpsych.eu.qualtrics.com/jfe/form/SV_0AR9IsQ61jsiXBk

 

non-native speaker of english

3-March 2020: started Mirtazapine 15mg
3-March to 6-april aprx cutting to 0 mg
6-April to 20-April -> ~ 7,5 mg,

21-April to 31-April -> 15 mg,

1-May to 13-May -> ~ 10 mg (approx),

15-May to 19-July -> 15 mg (psychosomatic clinic)
started taper with scale and file: 19-July 2020 -> 14 mg (-6,6%), 08-August -> 12 mg (-14,3 %), 27-August -> 10 mg (-16,6 %), 15-September -> 8 mg (-20 %, bad idea, heavy WD) 23-September -> 10.2 mg (+20 %, 102 mgpw), 2021: 12-April to 12-May crossover from solid pill to DIY liquid, still 10,2 mg

 

Supplements: 2 x 250 mg magnesiumbiglycinate daily, low histamin diet

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Altostrata
On 2/18/2021 at 3:47 PM, Nomansland said:

Hello @ChessieCat and @brassmonkey,

 

ive translated the leaflet from the Royal College of Psychiatrists into german.

Do you think you need the translated version here on SA? Iam not sure, but if you think there a place for it i can post the pdf via google drive.

I'd like to translate it into every known language, but sadly i only speak german and english.

 

Greetings

 

Nomansland

 

That's terrific!  @Nomansland Perhaps you could start a topic to add it to our Tapering forum?

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

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Nomansland

Hello @Altostrata,

 

thank you for your answer.

 

I will start a topic in the tapering forum soon.

 

My idea would be to use https://www.deepl.com/en/translator (like Sheep and ChessieCat suggested) for the rough translation.

At least from english to german, it seems pretty accurat, with a few odd words which need to be changed afterwards.

This could be done by members who are able to speak that specific language.

 

This translation can be implemented into the pdf quite quickly.

The withdrawal plans are pictures and need to changed manually. Its a bit annoying to change these, but overall

(given you have the accurat translation of the text in the pictures) its also not tooooo much work.

 

To edit the original pdf, i opened the RCPsych pdf in LibreOffice (i dont have Microsoft Word). It will open

LibreOffice Draw and the text can be edited without much trouble.

 

Greetings

 

Nomansland

2021 IMPORTANT WITHDRAWAL SURVEY, PLEASE PARTICIPATE: https://uelpsych.eu.qualtrics.com/jfe/form/SV_0AR9IsQ61jsiXBk

 

non-native speaker of english

3-March 2020: started Mirtazapine 15mg
3-March to 6-april aprx cutting to 0 mg
6-April to 20-April -> ~ 7,5 mg,

21-April to 31-April -> 15 mg,

1-May to 13-May -> ~ 10 mg (approx),

15-May to 19-July -> 15 mg (psychosomatic clinic)
started taper with scale and file: 19-July 2020 -> 14 mg (-6,6%), 08-August -> 12 mg (-14,3 %), 27-August -> 10 mg (-16,6 %), 15-September -> 8 mg (-20 %, bad idea, heavy WD) 23-September -> 10.2 mg (+20 %, 102 mgpw), 2021: 12-April to 12-May crossover from solid pill to DIY liquid, still 10,2 mg

 

Supplements: 2 x 250 mg magnesiumbiglycinate daily, low histamin diet

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Nomansland

Hello everyone,

 

well i think stabilisation is happening indeed. For about one month now, i have good and very good days.

Inner restlessness is getting weaker and weaker, light and sound sensitivity is nearly gone, stress resistents is better overall,

only very weak dizzyness for a few minutes. Its not 100 % perfect, but a BIG step in the right direction.

 

I have some cold or hot hands and feets sometimes and sleep stays to be a bit of a problem. It takes at least two hours to fall asleep and i wake up too early,

but i can't feel that a get too less sleep. Kind of weird. Maybe iam getting enough and just think i dont?

 

Sometimes iam asking myself if i should taper with the scale all the way and dont change to liquid. Maybe its just the "respect" for the change

and of course thoughts of "what will happen". Right now i think the way i use the scale and weigh my dose, is quite accurat. There are no more

"sometimes i feel drosy taking mirta and sometimes not" moments. I dont feel anything at all taking it.

But on the other hand i really want to use my pipettes, they are so precise.

 

And yes, iam very afraid of the tapering process itself.

 

Greetings

 

Nomansland

2021 IMPORTANT WITHDRAWAL SURVEY, PLEASE PARTICIPATE: https://uelpsych.eu.qualtrics.com/jfe/form/SV_0AR9IsQ61jsiXBk

 

non-native speaker of english

3-March 2020: started Mirtazapine 15mg
3-March to 6-april aprx cutting to 0 mg
6-April to 20-April -> ~ 7,5 mg,

21-April to 31-April -> 15 mg,

1-May to 13-May -> ~ 10 mg (approx),

15-May to 19-July -> 15 mg (psychosomatic clinic)
started taper with scale and file: 19-July 2020 -> 14 mg (-6,6%), 08-August -> 12 mg (-14,3 %), 27-August -> 10 mg (-16,6 %), 15-September -> 8 mg (-20 %, bad idea, heavy WD) 23-September -> 10.2 mg (+20 %, 102 mgpw), 2021: 12-April to 12-May crossover from solid pill to DIY liquid, still 10,2 mg

 

Supplements: 2 x 250 mg magnesiumbiglycinate daily, low histamin diet

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