☼ RedBunny: Zyprexa rollercoaster

[RedBunny]

Hi all,

 

A week ago I reinstated Zyprexa after a too fast taper off the medication. I developed a headache around my switch to 7.5mg which intensified over time. At the withdrawal’s peak, I experienced intense restlessness and flu like symptoms of chills, headache, insomnia, and nausea. The flu like symptoms dissipated soon after reinstatement, and after 10 days I am left with a light headache (compared to throbbing, splitting migraines) and a feeling of inner restlessness or anxiety (manifested in a feeling of my heart beating through my chest). My sleep has improved, but is not great due to the restlessness. I sleep for 3-4 hours, wake up to pee, sleep another 2-3 hours, wake up to pee, then sleep another 1-2 hours.

 

I don’t know if I reinstated properly; if I reinstated enough, or too much. I worry that I could be damaging my CNS on a dosage too low for my body. I regret coming off Zyprexa so quickly before my head could adjust, but at the same time I hate what this medication has done to me and I want off of it badly. So did I reinstate too much? I’m constantly uncomfortable but at least this is bearable.

 

 I have a plan in place with a new psychiatrist to wean off starting January using a liquid suspension, but at this point I have no idea what the right course of action is. Any advice or comments are appreciated.

 

Edited February 2, 2022 by ChessieCat
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[Gridley]

Welcome to SA, RedBunny.  Thank you for completing your drug signature.

 

2 hours ago, RedBunny said:

So did I reinstate too much? I’m constantly uncomfortable but at least this is bearable.

You reinstated a bit more than we would've recommended but I would make any change at this point.  The reinstatement is working, and I wold advise against any change at this point.  Keep in mind that the purpose of reinstatement isn't to eliminate withdrawal symptoms (though it does for some) but rather to make them tolerable, which it appears to have done in your case.  It may not seem so to you, but the amount of sleep you're getting, however broken, is really pretty good for withdrawal.

 

2 hours ago, RedBunny said:

wean off starting January using a liquid suspension, but at this point I have no idea what the right course of action is.

 

I would recommend you hold at your current dosage for at least 3 months to let your system stabilize from the reinstatement.  January is too soon to start tapering.

 

2 hours ago, RedBunny said:

 I have a plan in place with a new psychiatrist to wean off 

 

We recommend tapering no more than 10% of your current dose every four weeks.  Please be aware that psychiatrists almost invariably try to taper their patients far too fast, bringing on withdrawal symptoms such as you've already experienced.

 

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

What is withdrawal syndrome.

 

This link is specifically about tapering Zyprexa.  

 

Tips for tapering off olanzapine (Zyprexa)

 

 

We don't recommend a lot of supplements on SA, as many members report being sensitive to them due to our over-reactive nervous systems, but two supplements that we do recommend are magnesium and omega 3 (fish oil). Many people find these to be calming to the nervous system. 

 

Magnesium, nature's calcium channel blocker 

 

Omega-3 fatty acids (fish oil) 

 

Add in one at a time and at a low dose in case you do experience problems. Get supplements that are single ingredient (not mixed with other types of supplements).

 

This is your Introduction topic, where you can ask questions and connect with other members.  We're glad you found your way here.

 

 

 

 

[RedBunny]

36 minutes ago, Gridley said:

Welcome to SA, RedBunny.  Thank you for completing your drug signature.

 

You reinstated a bit more than we would've recommended but I would make any change at this point.  The reinstatement is working, and I wold advise against any change at this point.  Keep in mind that the purpose of reinstatement isn't to eliminate withdrawal symptoms (though it does for some) but rather to make them tolerable, which it appears to have done in your case.  It may not seem so to you, but the amount of sleep you're getting, however broken, is really pretty good for withdrawal.

 

 

I would recommend you hold at your current dosage for at least 3 months to let your system stabilize from the reinstatement.  January is too soon to start tapering.

 

 

We recommend tapering no more than 10% of your current dose every four weeks.  Please be aware that psychiatrists almost invariably try to taper their patients far too fast, bringing on withdrawal symptoms such as you've already experienced.

 

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

What is withdrawal syndrome.

 

This link is specifically about tapering Zyprexa.  

 

Tips for tapering off olanzapine (Zyprexa)

 

 

We don't recommend a lot of supplements on SA, as many members report being sensitive to them due to our over-reactive nervous systems, but two supplements that we do recommend are magnesium and omega 3 (fish oil). Many people find these to be calming to the nervous system. 

 

Magnesium, nature's calcium channel blocker 

 

Omega-3 fatty acids (fish oil) 

 

Add in one at a time and at a low dose in case you do experience problems. Get supplements that are single ingredient (not mixed with other types of supplements).

 

This is your Introduction topic, where you can ask questions and connect with other members.  We're glad you found your way here.

 

 

 

 

Thank you so much for your response, it’s much appreciated and I’m glad to be a part of this forum  I met with my psychiatrist earlier and he suggested going on a low dosage of Abilify to ease the withdrawal symptoms and provide a cushion for going off of Zyprexa. He also said this could be a trial for a few days and if it doesn’t work to stop it. He called it “cross-titrating”. I’m scared about having a second antipsychotic in my system, but it seems like the side effects and withdrawal for Abilify don’t come close to Zyprexa. 
 

I don’t mind waiting months to come off of Zyprexa, but I do want some relief from this constant headache and heavy heart. What do you think?

[Gridley]

38 minutes ago, RedBunny said:

What do you think?

We don't recommend adding a new drug to deal with the effects from an old drug.  Adding Abilify gets you involved with a whole new antipsychotic, the effects of which are impossible to predict.   Do you really want to be on two antipsychotics?  

 

I'd recommend stabilizing on the reinstated Zyprexa, which is going to take a few months. You've already had a very positive response to the reinstatement, and as time passes symptoms should continue to fade.  I wouldn't suggest adding a powerful new drug into the mix.

Edited November 27, 2020 by Gridley

[RedBunny]

11 minutes ago, Gridley said:

We don't recommend adding a new drug to deal with the effects from an old drug.  Adding Abilify gets you involved with a whole new antipsychotic, the effects of which are impossible to predict.   Do you really want to be on two antipsychotics?  

 

I'd recommend stabilizing on the reinstated Zyprexa, which is going to take a few months. You've already had a very positive response to the reinstatement, and as time passes symptoms should continue to fade.  I wouldn't suggest adding a powerful new drug into the mix.

When you say restabilizing is going to take a few months, that includes the elimination of withdrawal symptoms as well? Wouldn’t an attempt at a cross taper be worth a shot for the short term in case my body responds well? This wouldn’t reduce the time to stabilize but hopefully clear the mud Im swimming in, as it still feels awful.

[Gridley]

51 minutes ago, RedBunny said:

When you say restabilizing is going to take a few months, that includes the elimination of withdrawal symptoms as well? Wouldn’t an attempt at a cross taper be worth a shot for the short term in case my body responds well? This wouldn’t reduce the time to stabilize but hopefully clear the mud Im swimming in, as it still feels awful.

I can't make any guarantees, but the general pattern is that, if you give the reinstatement a chance to work, symptoms will continue to lessen. Then you can begin a slow taper off the Zyprexa and be anti-psychotic free.  If you add the Abilify, you will have two anti-psychotics to taper.  

 

If you want to add another drug, that is a decision to be made between you and your doctor. If you feel that it's worth a shot, that's your call. It's not what we would recommend for the reasons I've already given.

 

Regarding the "short-term," unfortunately it doesn't work that way.  These drugs are not innocuous.  Taking them comes with a price. Once you're on a psychiatric drug for over a month, you are at risk of withdrawal, some symptoms of which you've already experienced.  The vast majority of psychiatrists don't believe in long-term withdrawal or slow tapering.   Seeing the thousand of cases that we've seen, we come from a different perspective.  

 

 

 

 

Edited November 27, 2020 by Gridley

[RedBunny]

On 11/27/2020 at 2:09 PM, Gridley said:

I can't make any guarantees, but the general pattern is that, if you give the reinstatement a chance to work, symptoms will continue to lessen. Then you can begin a slow taper off the Zyprexa and be anti-psychotic free.  If you add the Abilify, you will have two anti-psychotics to taper.  

 

If you want to add another drug, that is a decision to be made between you and your doctor. If you feel that it's worth a shot, that's your call. It's not what we would recommend for the reasons I've already given.

 

Regarding the "short-term," unfortunately it doesn't work that way.  These drugs are not innocuous.  Taking them comes with a price. Once you're on a psychiatric drug for over a month, you are at risk of withdrawal, some symptoms of which you've already experienced.  The vast majority of psychiatrists don't believe in long-term withdrawal or slow tapering.   Seeing the thousand of cases that we've seen, we come from a different perspective.  

 

 

 

 

I'm not on Abilify after all, as I ultimately agree with your logic. However, I have not seen any improvement in my symptoms and continue to feel a general malaise, headache, and troubled sleep. It has been 3 weeks since reinstatement, and I hate thinking like this but I keep wondering if I reinstated too low (the anxiety doesn't help). But I'll get through this and I need to stop doubting the process. My symptoms are at least manageable. I'll update again soon.

[ChessieCat]

Please reduce the font size of your drug signature.  Thank you.

[hayduke]

Hi @RedBunny

 

You've really crash dived off the olanzapine there.

 

Heavens knows how you got given 20mg, but I strongly echo Gridley's suggestion to hold at 7.5mg for at least 3 months. 

 

It won't be comfortable for a while, it never is, but down the road a bit when you're stable at 7.5mg you'll be in a good position to commence a gentle taper.

 

Re "abilify" the butcher that prescribed me that nearly overcooked a tough situation.  It won't improve anything.  I'd again echo Gridley,  save yourself the trouble and keep it to one prescription, stay where you are till you're settled then you can start getting off the neuroleptic.

 

Cheers

[hayduke]

Seems I misread your initial post @RedBunny, apologies.

 

It's gonna take a fair while for your body to adjust from 20mg down to 2.5mg.  It might take longer than 3 months to catch up.

 

Still agree with Gridley, suggest hanging out where you are as further changes are only going to be even more bother, and letting it stabilise over the next while.  Good luck.  I think it will be hard, please search the site here for the wisdom on comfort and self care through these rough patches.  I would be looking for a ton of yoga and meditation and a ton of omega-3 and magnesium l-threonate and epsom salt baths. 

 

Cheers

[RedBunny]

5 hours ago, hayduke said:

Seems I misread your initial post @RedBunny, apologies.

 

It's gonna take a fair while for your body to adjust from 20mg down to 2.5mg.  It might take longer than 3 months to catch up.

 

Still agree with Gridley, suggest hanging out where you are as further changes are only going to be even more bother, and letting it stabilise over the next while.  Good luck.  I think it will be hard, please search the site here for the wisdom on comfort and self care through these rough patches.  I would be looking for a ton of yoga and meditation and a ton of omega-3 and magnesium l-threonate and epsom salt baths. 

 

Cheers

Hi @hayduke

 

I realize now how fast I zoomed off the 20mg and the crash makes sense. What I don't know is if it's worth waiting it out at 2.5mg or if I should be stabilizing higher, at say 5mg. That doesn't make total sense since the goal is to get off this demon drug, but I don't want to be causing any harm to my CNS in the meantime. And there's no literature surrounding it, of course. It feels like quite the pickle.

[RedBunny]

Also @hayduke if you don't mind me asking, how do omega-3 and l-threonate aid in the withdrawal process? Is there a physical difference that you've noticed?

[ChessieCat]

3 hours ago, RedBunny said:

What I don't know is if it's worth waiting it out at 2.5mg

 

The question to ask is, are the symptoms bearable most of the time?

 

3 hours ago, RedBunny said:

or if I should be stabilizing higher, at say 5mg.

 

If you did do an updose you would only make a very small increase, ie you would NOT double the dose.  It is better to increase by a small amount and then by a bit more if needed than to risk increasing by too much.

 

And the idea of updosing is to bring the symptoms to a bearable level, not to get rid of them completely, so if your answer to the above question is yes, they are bearable for most of the time, then a long hold would probably be the better option.

 

SA strongly encourages members to learn and use:

 

Non-drug techniques to cope

 

 

Edited December 10, 2020 by ChessieCat

[hayduke]

4 hours ago, RedBunny said:

Also @hayduke if you don't mind me asking, how do omega-3 and l-threonate aid in the withdrawal process? Is there a physical difference that you've noticed?

 

Fish oil and magnesium are the usual recommended supplements here.  They make a huge difference. 

 

I don't take fish oil much but prefer getting my omega-3/6 from hemp seeds in a smoothie.  My body seems to have a voracious demand for magnesium.  The vitamin tablets you see around aren't that helpful.  I found nightly baths in epsom salts and/or MgCl really help, foot baths if you don't have a full bath, otherwise a teaspoon of magnesium L-threonate in a few ml of water does the trick.  There are other options if you search the site.

 

Best to start with small amounts and see how you react. 

 

Cheers

[ChessieCat]

For the calming effect it is better to take magnesium throughout the day, not as one dose.

[RedBunny]

Can anyone speak as to how common a 24/7 headache is? Especially after reinstatement, the constant headache and physical anxiety (respiratory akathisia?) are extremely frustrating ride out, as mild as they may be compared to what others experience. 

 

Also, what is meant by the term "stabilize" in regard to the withdrawal/reinstatement process? For example, I have not improved much since my successful reinstatement, where the majority of my symptoms dissipated immediately. But the rest have not improved much since. I have no windows of full relief, but my waves are predictable and tolerable with no splitting headaches or intense chills or lack of sleep. My anxiety and headache are constant but predictable. I understand I must wait before coming off the drug again, and I constantly wonder if I reinstated too much to induce the akathisia I feel or not enough to help my symptoms. So I don't feel good and I feel stuck but I wonder if by the standards of this community I would be considered stabilized? Or am I stabilized once my symptoms are entirely gone at this dose? Or somewhere in the middle?

 

I just need some more reassurance, these last two months have sucked, especially still being on this demon drug. But on another note, magnesium got me pooping naturally again! :)) thank you @hayduke and @ChessieCat I'm taking 125mg morning, 150 evening, 125 night. How's my dosing?

[ChessieCat]

Dr Joseph Glenmullen's WD Symptoms Checklist

 

Stability

 

WDnormal
 

 

[hayduke]

Eh you're probably just gonna have to hang out for a few months until it all feels 'normal' again..such a funny word but you'll know when you're feeling settled again.

 

When I spoke to the senior pharmacist at my usual he was more than interested and said 'I tried this drug one night and it gave me a splitting headache.  You're doing well to want rid of it'. 

 

Dehydration is also a big one, berocca and if I've been drinking OTC hydration tabs help.

 

The side effects from this drug can be life threatening, regardless be patient and wait till you feel ok before tapering.  Otherwise it's even more trouble. 

 

Talk to your therapist about ways to manage anger.  There is likely to be a ****load.  Also, feel free to find your own without harming others.

 

<3

[RedBunny]

Hey just posting a quick update here, it’s been a year now and I wanted to share my success. I have been off Zyprexa, and now all drugs, and am happy, active, calm, rested, and achieving a true center of peace and calm I’ve never experienced before. It’s possible, takes time, and is hard, and scary, but life returns and is worth every second. At my lowest there were many times I thought about letting go, and sometimes I hoped fate would take me away. I went through a lot of fighting my body and listening to it before eventually fighting for my life and settling on a fruit based diet with intermittent fasting, which has helped me shed the medication weight, flush toxins, avoid nausea, regain energy, heal joints, and reverse the damage of tinnitus. I’m still undergoing detox as I get flashbacks and cravings, but they are a big part of acceptance and as they pass, we heal. Still clearing mucus from my head, which I believe is a big part of the pain and the problem with medication and toxins as they get stored away there. I encourage you all to sing, laugh, and make noise and have fun :)) it really helps. Learning to love again after a long time of losing trust in the world that was trying to “help” with medication. I realize now it’s fear, not love that drives friends and family to encourage drugs, which has helped me regain trust in love as it isn’t the culprit. Every day I’m seeing clearer, hearing better, and feeling freer. The spiritual elements and wonders of the world that lead me into mania initially I’m no longer fearful of, but learning to appreciate and let them guide me, navigating temptation and intuition and feeling like a child again  sometimes a mental illness can be the soul screaming out loud for a healing crisis, and it’s sometimes hard to hear it, and even harder to follow it❤️‍🩹 peace and love, I hope we all can heal and feel free from pain ❤️

[ChessieCat]

Hello, I'm just reading your post now.

 

Please update your drug signature.  Thanks.

 

[ChessieCat]

Because you're feeling better, I added our cheerful "here comes the sun" symbol ☼ to the title of your Intro topic, to show you're recovering.

 

Please continue to let us know how you're doing. I hope you will add your story to our Recovery Success Stories eventually!

 

Please see this topic:  How to write your success story