RickyIsHealing: mirtazapine withdrawal

[RickyIsHealing]

Thankyou iamffine

i had a ok sleep last night , I awoke at 4.30am but managed to sleep again until around 6.30am.

my mood is not as bad as the past few days , should i take this as a sign of healing or just a good day ? 

and yes mornings tend to be the worse out of all off this , sometimes it drags all through the day also !  

i have stopped taking b-vitamin complex as i read it can be activating so i don't want to risk it so I'm just drinking lots of water and eating very clean currently 

just wish i could stabilize to a mid level instead of feeling SOOO low and horrible for days then be abit better for a day or 2

had enough off it all now i want to be myself and have a human level of anxiety , sleep and level mood.

one day at a time i guess ! x

[Iamfine]

Well it’s 4:30 AM here and I’m still up so you’re not alone. Ive had to do bed rest because of an injury and its been a very long time since I was down like this so it has been quite... challenging. Plus it has my sleep totally fouled up it will take me a week to get straightened out ugh. I decline pain pills so Ive been in agony. Starting to heal now so I’ll stop whining. You asked about signs. I don't know man, I used to think about that a lot. Sure you can read feelings like that I suppose. But I think you can definitely overdo it and that can be counterproductive. If all you do is sit around all day waiting for the next odd sensation or feeling then analyzing until the next one comes I promise you will feel bad. Try distracting yourself just to see if it really was nothing, I bet you it was. I can say these things because I’ve tried them and know. For me at least. And always remember these things are almost always more uncomfortable than they are dangerous. And you can endure discomfort.

[RickyIsHealing]

oh no what happened to you mate ? 

and yeah your right it is discomfiting , i just hope the level of it will get lower , i do stay busy as i have 2 kids so dropping and picking them up keeps me busy in the day and housework and what not , quite nervous to say the least about returning to work ( when i  find a new job ) .

im unsure if we actually heal or if we just get used to it to be honest , i am obviously hoping for the healing choice !! 

i also play my pc to keep my mind active and have a little break away, still cant seem to sit still for longer than 2 minutes , restlessness is horrible its like torture ! " have to keep moving , have to keep  going"  

hope for some relief soon !

X
 

[RickyIsHealing]

so my boss text saying i could start my job again after xmas , i feel so scared and nervous and kind of paranoid i will have panic attacks there ! got to find some inner strength from somewhere.

im sure ill be ok im just worried as many of us probaly were returning to work? 

x

[ChessieCat]

I've been off work since mid-March this year.  I was due to return at the end of June but hurt my back and won't be returning until mid-January 2021.  I'm also a bit concerned about how I will handle going back.  I think it's normal to feel that way.  And I think what makes it worse is that there have been quite a few changes in the time I've been away.  Because of covid I'm going to have to change desks, and others have also had to relocate, some people have left or are working from home and because I had almost finished my projects I will be also have to learn new ones so it is a bit daunting.  Thankfully my bosses are supportive but I know I will need to use my non drug coping skills to help with the nervousness about returning.

 

And the thing that I tell myself is that I only have to go through the first day back once.  The second day will be easier.

[RickyIsHealing]

 

And the thing that I tell myself is that I only have to go through the first day back once.  The second day will be easier.

 

😍

 

I love what you said ! 

 

Yeag I guess its just scarey getting back to the norm , even thoe thats what i want mostly..change of environment and surroundings,  lots of noise and movement also gets me thinking anxious ..but if we don't push our selfs we will never get better I suppose !! 

 

X

[ChessieCat]

I can remember when I was young that I would feel a bit nervous about going back to work after taking a couple of weeks off.

 

If possible, you might find it helpful to set a reminder to take some time out throughout the work day.  The idea is to check in with yourself to see how you are feeling.  Doing this can help you to bring the level of any stress down before it gets too high.  I don't know what sort of work environment you are in but try to walk around or just stand up (or sit down) and have a stretch and look around which gives your eyes a rest.  It also helps to give the brain a bit of a break from concentrating.  And remember not to let yourself get too hungry.  When the sugar levels drop the anxiety can increase.  And stay hydrated too.  This can be important if you are in air conditioning or work at a physical job or outside in the heat (although it's winter where you are now).

 

Now for me to remember to do this too!

[RickyIsHealing]

Yes unfortunately BUT fortunately at the same time.  I do physical work . But its o lying 4 hours a evening atm so 4.00pm until 8.00pm  , and that its self gives me a bit more comfort because I know for some reason my mood and anxiety tends to be less of a evening ..I will remember to stay highdrated and take some healthy food to work I.e pasta dishes  , healthy sandwiches , a nice fruit smoothie that kind of stuff ..

 

I feel like I'm nervous and scared because its like I'm claiming my life back by going to work and pushing myself but at the same time I am also scared about how I will feel when I'm there ..stupid withdrawals make me live in the future with stupid anxiety!! 

 

Sometimes we make things worse than they really are i think x

[ChessieCat]

Another thing that you might find helpful is to start keeping regular hours to get your body ready for going back to work.  Also doing some exercises related to your work to help get your strength back so that you don't notice it so much.  Remember to build up.  If you've been off work for a while and not exercising then you don't want to over do things.

[RickyIsHealing]

hello guy's 

i slept ok last night ,  fell asleep around 11.00pm i think and woke up around 5.45am , 

i have this feeling of utter restlessness ? now I'm thinking instead of it being extreme anxiety is it extreme restlessness alongside anxiety ? 

just cant feel no peace in my body at the minute,    i have to always be moving or doing something , i couldn't imagine trying to watch a film right now , i cant even watch a tv series for half hour! 

my partner says i never sit with her no more  i just cant stay still i have a horrible urge to be moving all the time !

im hoping this feeling will go soon its relentless !  

[RickyIsHealing]

evening guys ,

i took my son to school this morning,

me and my dad put some blinds up in my house also so that's good!

BUT the last hour i have literally dropped ( not emotionally luckily ) it feels like i been hit by a bus , instant tiredness and fatigue i could jsut sleep on the spot , its the first time I've felt this i think , is this normal to get things like this happen ? maybe my brain is like "okay mate , that's enough for today ".

hope your all well ! 

x

[ChessieCat]

Overdoing things can increase withdrawal symptoms.  We have to treat ourselves gently and try not to do too much.  Use this as a guide.  If you have been inactive for a while it's best to build up slowly.  Perhaps start doing some gently walking and increase the distance, time and/or intensity gradually.

 

exercise-do-more-do-less-do-nothing-what-worked-for-you

[RickyIsHealing]

thankyou chessie , i woke up today and about 10 mins ago i went into a state of panic it was horrible , i can still feel it lingering now  .

im guessing its down to withdrawals ? 

one of the most horrible feelings ive had to keep going through  

x

[RickyIsHealing]

please help !

I've had really high anxiety and panic today !! would this be due to coming of these meds ? 

i been of exactly a month today , I'm guessing i need longer  

URGHH JUST HURRY UP AND HEAL BRAIN ! 

[JesusSavemefromWD]

Hi Rickyishealing,

I went through your posts and my opinion is you are not really suffering from DPDR which if I am correct it is great news for you because DPDR is debilitating ( I am stuck in home all day long, can’t even pick up my kids from school, I can watch TV as I am lost in DRDR state and don’t even recognize my own voice. )

it sounds to me like you are indeed healing even though it is not linear .... but that’s expected..... WD recovery is not linear from what I hear and experiencing 

God bless 

[RickyIsHealing]

Omg I'm so sorry your going through that level of dp/dr maybe I just have a bit of it then ? 

 

And yeah I hope I am its just so wired as some days I'm no were near as anxious as other days , some days my mood is level some days its low , some days I panic some days I don't? 

 

It really is a roller coaster ride 🎢 

 

Just when you think your making progress , another horrible day ! 

 

God bless you also 🙏 

[JesusSavemefromWD]

Yes trust me, you are doing good. I can’t even pick up presents for my two boys ... they don’t understand what happened to their mom.... 

[RickyIsHealing]

that's some serious BS right there , but i do feel your pain ( in a less painful way ) because i was wrapping my kids presents the other day and was nearly crying my eyes out because I'm sat there thinking why am i not enjoying this , why am i scared of xmas , why cant i enjoy playing with my kids , i feel like I'm just in the motion of life with out enjoying anything i do.

i honestly feel like a complete different person.

but everyone says to me that time is the greatest healer so that's what i hang on to ! (at the same time i feel like ill never heal and be myself again thoe )

i read some Where that these meds don't cure anxiety or depression , its getting off them that cures you because you feel alive again when your past the WD

so sick of living day by day HOPING that tomorrow will be better , i would give my leg away to return to my normal state i really would.

[JesusSavemefromWD]

Yes you are in Drug induced hell too, just different kind of hell than me. I feel the same, everyday I open my eyes in the morning hoping it’s over but it’s not. No improvement either just intensity fluctuates during the day. I heard my husband telling to our 5 years old son “ if you want fried eggs go ask your mom to make them for you” and my 5 years old replied “ she is very sick in bed today all today. Dont you understand sick people can’t cook” my little boy broke my heart... my husband is a physician by the way .... supporting the initial decision going on Zoloft. 
I am tempted trying Prozac as my new phycologist is proposing .... there is always the chance that I developed some kind of mental disease and Zoloft just didn’t help ? I don’t know what else to think. Brain CT and blood work appear normal but I am having MRI and EMG soon. I am hoping they ll find smg to explain all these than sitting here everyday hoping for WD to pass. Please stay strong you can still go places and do some things. I am sure you will recover 

[RickyIsHealing]

your little boy  you broke my heart bless you,

and from what i have read no medication of this kind is the answer for any of our problems , i really hope you find a answer and i will pray for you when i speak to god tonight before bed ! 

if you ever need to even just vent to someone you can message me on here anytime ! 

we are all in the same boat trying to paddle to a better place , i do keep faith and hope as that's all i can hang onto atm , returning to work beginning of January and i am SOOO terrified ! gets me anxious thinking about it i just pray the level of anxiety and panic lessens by then.

god bless you x

 

[JesusSavemefromWD]

I ll be praying for you too. Today I am in bed all day feeling totally disconnected from my brain and my husband hasn’t even asked me if I need a cup of tea or a glass of water.  I don’t blame him, unless u ve been through this hell u cannot understand it.

thank you for listening 

we will stay strong and hope to improve while praying hard 

[RickyIsHealing]

bless you , yes my partner is very supportive but she still don't really understand what I'm dealing with everyday 

I'm ok with physical symptoms but I'm suffering with mental symptoms everyday , anxiety , panic all that good stuff.

mornings tend to be dreadful , but all day today has been quite hard tbh

is so scary that we have only been on meds for such a short time and we feel this way !

and stop beating yourself up , be gentle and kind to yourself you got this girl ! 

[Sunnyday]

Hi @RickyIsHealing. I read that you struggle a lot with the anxiety in the mornings, so was wondering if you have seen this topic, it has some information and tips in it:

 

Managing the morning cortisol spike

 

 

Quote

Just when you think your making progress , another horrible day ! 

 

This is very typical for WD, so in a way the ups and downs (with mostly downs at first) is a sign of progress. Even if it really doesn't feel that way. The waves will become fewer eventually. It's just very slow and gradual unfortunately.

 

Hope tomorrow will be a bit easier for you. Take care.

 

Edited December 12, 2020 by Sunnyday

[RickyIsHealing]

thankyou sunny day 

but i think i have something different , i sometimes get it when i wake up and sometimes get it a hour after being awake , i feel my brain just hop into panic mode for no apparent reason  

 

[ChessieCat]

Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms

 

Audio:  First Aid for Panic (4 minutes) Female voice - getselfhelp.co.uk
 

Audio:  First Aid for Panic (4 minutes) Male voice - getselfhelp.co.uk
 

Audio:  How to Recover from Anxiety - Dr Claire Weekes

 

[RickyIsHealing]

Update : 

 

Anxiary is still there today , not as high as yesterday but still a uncomfortable amount 😔

 

I slept 7 and a half hours last night!! , hope its not a one off !!! 

 

The problem i have now most off all is i feel so out of it,  dont feel anything like myself i feel like im tripping out constantly and obvusly my anxiaty is a huge problem also 

 

Hoping to make some more progress soon 

 

I also took cbd oil this morning to see if that will help with anxiaty once the level of oil builds up , I hope so ! 

 

God bless all !!

[RickyIsHealing]

is anyone experiencing any mental withdrawal symptoms ?

like anxiety..
depression ..
restlessness ..

or is it all physical on SA?

[manymoretodays]

merged topics.

Hi RickyIsHealing,

One Introduction per member is our rule.  So I moved your recent question(it was in the  Introduction Forum) to your topic here.

 

And yes, very common WD symptoms.  We call them neuroemotions

We have that whole topic devoted to those kinds of symptoms.  And then there are links to various coping strategies at the start of the above topic too. 

This is a great time to work on non-drug coping practices.

And do, ask away, right here, if you have more questions.

 

You may want to scroll back a bit, and find Gridley's welcoming post to you, I see it on page one.  Then, take a look at some of the links there, if you have not been able to yet.

 

And okay, best.  Hope you are doing well enough today.

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

 

Edited December 13, 2020 by manymoretodays

[RickyIsHealing]

Hey guys ..

 

Quick update ..I fell sleep around 12pm last night at woke up around 4.00 am firstly ..

 

Very light sleep for around a hour after 

 

Woke up with what feels like a pulled muscle ( bicep ) .

 

Had very real like and strange dreams all the time I was asleep so that's made me feel like I've had no sleep at all 😞 

 

Thought I was making progress on my sleep but guess its being pushed back again now.

 

Mood is low today but I think its due to poor sleep and brain active all night 🌙 

 

32 days of today , hope I make some noticeable progress soon !! 

 

Hope everyone is ok love to all 

 

God bless 🙏 

 

 

[RickyIsHealing]

Think im having a low day today

so scared that all this is depression and not withdrawals , i pray to god i can get through this !  

[sunnysideup69]

3 hours ago, RickyIsHealing said:

Think im having a low day today

so scared that all this is depression and not withdrawals , i pray to god i can get through this !  

 

That's a common 'withdrawal' thought, I believe. Every time I'm in a wave, I doubt it's a wave. It's a wonky brain playing its tricks - ignore it/distract as best you can.

[RickyIsHealing]

i seen this on the internet and i dont know if it will help anyone in my thread but its a good read 

 

Not all people experience withdrawal symptoms when trying to stop taking a Selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitor. In clinical trials, the percentage is placed between 2 and 10 percent of patients. These studies are sponsored by pharmaceutical companies. In independent research that looked at several different company studies, the percentage of patients who experienced withdrawal symptoms from SSRI was placed between 40 and 60 percent. It’s difficult to ascertain which number is right, most studies are held privately by the drug manufacturers and not available for public scrutiny. The term used by the pharmaceutical companies for withdrawal is “Discontinuation Syndrome”. SSRI work by blocking receptors that absorb Serotonin between neurons, thereby increasing the available Serotonin in the brain. The theory is that depression, obsessive behavior, anxiety, and psychotic behavior are caused by a lack of sufficient Serotonin in the brain. This theory was first developed in the 1950’s when it was noticed that patients’ mood improved when their levels of Serotonin was increased. It is currently impossible to measure the levels of Serotonin in a living brain. 90% of the body’s Serotonin exists in the gut, so researchers measure that amount, and extrapolate a concurrent increase in levels in the brain. Ironically, studies have also proven that reducing Serotonin in the brain can lead to improved mood. These results have brought the chemical imbalance theory under question in recent years. It is beginning to appear that artificially adjusting Serotonin levels in the brain does not have the intended effect, and may be the cause of some of the symptoms that SSRI were originally developed to treat.

The method that SSRI use to increase Serotonin levels in the brain is at the heart of the withdrawal problem. By blocking Serotonin receptors on neurons, the brain becomes dependent on the drug to maintain consistent levels of Serotonin. As the brain becomes accustomed to the drug, it no longer has to produce or regulate Serotonin as it did before. When the drug is removed, the receptors that stimulate Serotonin production are still blocked, and levels of this neurotransmitter begin to fluctuate. Since Serotonin is closely involved in mood and the ability to cope with emotions, this fluctuation causes wide mood swings and uncontrollable emotions. It seems that the level of Serotonin in the brain is not as important as consistent levels. As the brain adjusts to the need to self regulate levels of Serotonin, many patients experience a cascade of extreme emotional and physical symptoms. Analogous to the stages of grief or joy, these symptoms don’t always come all at once. In most cases, withdrawal symptoms come and go as the user lowers their dose of the drug. Some common emotion symptoms include depression, anxiety, anger, confusion, insomnia, and memory loss. For most people, these are symptoms that they experience in every day life. Usually, they are manageable and temporary. The difference for the withdrawal sufferer is that these emotions become unmanageable and intense. The regular mechanism that we use to control our emotions no longer works during withdrawal. It’s hard to imagine the loss of control that accompanies withdrawal symptoms. When a normal person succumbs to anger, it is still a conscious decision. In withdrawal, there is no spiral that precipitates the uncontrollable rage, it springs fully formed in the mind and propels itself without any input from the person experiencing it. The other emotional symptoms of withdrawal act in a similar way. Even when the patient exercises mindfulness and self awareness, anxiety, depression, and the other symptoms come on with little warning. They have a realness and power that most people are not used to. Since the brain’s balance has been disrupted, reality itself has been changed for the patient. Instead of an emotional wave that must be conquered or endured, these emotions become reality, with no alternative.

As time goes by, the patient will eventually be able to self regulate each emotion at a level similar to before they began taking an SSRI. One of the frustrating things about weaning off an SSRI is that the patient is only aware of progress after a phase has passed. They may feel extreme anxiety, but realize that the rage they experienced a few months before no longer bothers them. While they are experiencing a phase, there is no context to compare their emotions to. Since the emotions are so powerful and uncontrollable, emotional self awareness is short circuited, leading to mental relativism. The patient doesn’t realize the whole range of emotions, just the small extreme range that they are experiencing at the moment. The alternative to blind rage isn’t calmness, as it would be in a normal person. Instead, irrational anger is the lower end of the emotional range.

During withdrawal, these realities change and evolve as some emotions become dominant. Patients may experience uncontrollable rage for a few weeks, then enter a stage where depression dominates. These emotional tides are outward signs of the brain readjusting to the need to self regulate neurotransmitter levels. It is almost as if the mind is going through the entire inventory of emotion trying to catalog what’s necessary to regulate each one. Some people will experience several uncontrollable emotions at the same time, but the uncontrollable aspect of them will fade away one at a time. The variety and severity of symptoms often lead doctors to prescribe other drugs to mitigate the effects. This strategy compounds the problems of withdrawal by adding a second effect to an existing condition. The patient now has to deal with withdrawal as well as the effects of a new drug and perhaps a new set of withdrawal symptoms. The best strategy for dealing with SSRI withdrawal symptoms is time and slow weaning. A prolonged weaning schedule will reduce the severity and number of withdrawal symptoms. The brain requires a certain amount of time to adjust back to a natural balance of neurotransmitters which can’t be rushed. By slowly weaning off an SSRI, the brain does not have to deal with a sudden change to Serotonin levels, and can adjust at a natural rate. It takes a great deal of time for receptors in the brain to regenerate. A schedule that reduces the drug by 10% each month is usually sufficient. Schedules can vary depending on the patient. Some will be able to reduce their dose more quickly, others may have to go more slowly.

[RickyIsHealing]

@Sunnysideup i really do hope so , if i aint got horrible server anxiety i feel depressed , if it aint either of the 2 im fatiged , feels like there's always something. 

just a week with out nothing at a stable mood would be a blessing right now , everyday is a battle that i feel like is never going to end !  

[JesusSavemefromWD]

What most (if not all) medical doctors do not understand is that side effects of AD are long-lasting. It doesn’t only have to do with the amount of time the body clears the drug but also with the fact that these drugs suppress brain”s ability to recycle and produce/release  normal serotonin levels. I get frustrated when I hear doctors saying” it’s not the drug, it is out of your body by now”. So yes, when the drug is out of your body your serotonin reuptake receptors are set free BUT the brain needs time to regain its memory and ability for physiological serotonin metabolism. As a neuroscientist myself this makes absolutely sense! And by the way, a very subtle harmony of many neurotransmitters is needed for physiological feelings.... it is so naive to believe that increasing just serotonin by an X level will fix our feelings. I made the mistake to believe that medical doctors know more and I now suffer but our brains will heal due to neuroplasticity.... hang in there Ricky... that’s what I am trying to do. Going back to these drugs will only make things worst

[RickyIsHealing]

@JesusSavemefromWD wow , you have some powerful information there , thankyou !

i had no idea you was a neuro scientist that makes me feel a bit more promising its self , i guess its a tad easier for yourself as you know a little bit about what's going on ? 

since i rung my dr and said i am weening off these tablets I've spoke to no professional as i feel like they will just say " yes yes yes take these tablets" and my my situation worse , but at the same time i feel like i need to because i am so sacred ill never recover , i was only on the poxy poison for 6-7 weeks , i hope i haven't done any permanent damage.

i hope and pray i will get better than what i feel now but its just seems like a "hope and a prayer" .

sometimes i feel like i am getting better , then ill have a sh*t sleep and next day ill be depressed , then ill be anxious really bad the next day , its like a cycle of different feelings everyday.

i try so hard to stay positive but how can you change the way you feel , i can try to change the way i think but i cant physically change a emotion , its impossible.

worse thing i done was take these tablets , but how was i to know ?! 

i hope its the matter of months and not years so i can finally enjoy life with my family again instead of constant worrying , constant anxiety , constant low mood ..i cant even remember the person i was ...

for 6 weeks of tablets , dr's are pr*cks and ill never trust any of them again !

[JesusSavemefromWD]

The sad truth is that no one really knows a lot about the brain. I got fooled too thinking “ well these drugs have been FDA approved should be ok”. And it is true that they help some people with serious mental issues like bipolar disorder or schizophrenia. But my opinion is that they are prescribed easily to people with less severe symptoms without even being told the potential risks! I am NOT a medical doctor so I cannot say who does and who does not really need these meds but what I want to scream out of my lungs to MDs is STOP PReScribing ADs so easily and when you do, MONITOR the patient especially in the beginning and if the patient tells u  “ since I started them I am getting depersonalized “ tell them to stop instead of “ be brave push through!