Bluemoon3

[Bluemoon3]

I have 10mg pills, no liquid for Seresta. 

[Shep]

3 hours ago, Bluemoon3 said:

Thanks. I had a bad idea. I removed 5mg yesterday night. My sleep was ok but I feel miserable in the morning. I took 30mg instead of 35mg. Do you think I should take 32,5mg tonight or to go back to 35mg ? I am scared to feel bad with 32,5mg either. I have nothing to make titration at the moment. 

 

You've reduced a total of 10 mg this month, which is a 25% reduction. The fact that you're sleeping is good. 

 

Are you able to get up, eat a healthy breakfast, and work on non-drug coping skills to handle your morning symptoms? 

 

If you don't think this is possible, you may want to increase the dose to 32.5 mg to see if that helps. 

 

3 hours ago, Bluemoon3 said:

I have 10mg pills, no liquid for Seresta. 

 

You can get to 32.5 mg by taking 3 of the 10 mg pills and then 1/4 of a pill to get the addition 2.5 mg if you decide to updose to 32.5 mg.

 

Please note it takes 4 days for your nervous system to register a change in dose and several weeks for the nervous system to adjust. 

 

Since you're attempting a rapid taper due to your pregnancy and not being on this drug for long (although long enough to become dependent), you'll need to take extra good care of yourself.  

 

Please weigh the pros and cons of coming completely off this drug and having more severe withdrawal symptoms against simply lowering your drug burden and getting on a lower dose without coming completely off. If the withdrawal symptoms are very severe, that may be worse than staying on a low dose of this drug during your pregnancy. 

[Bluemoon3]

Thanks Shep. I did not realized I tapered that much. Other than that I felt exhausted when I woke up and now my head is spinning a bit, I have more energy to do things. I will see how long I sleep tonight. 

[Bluemoon3]

6 hours ago, Shep said:

 

 

 

You can get to 32.5 mg by taking 3 of the 10 mg pills and then 1/4 of a pill to get the addition 2.5 mg if you decide to updose to 32.5 mg.

 

Please note it takes 4 days for your nervous system to register a change in dose and several weeks for the nervous system to adjust. 

I ´ ve been feeling very dizzy since this afternoon. It’s tricky because I was fine till 1pm. If I ´ m’ not feeling better, i will add 2,5mg tonight. Thanks

[Bluemoon3]

I took 32.5mg of Seresta at 9pm.  I slept from 10 p.m. to 3:40 a.m. instead of the usual 10 p.m. to 4:30 a.m. when I was taking 35 mg.  I feel better than yesterday on 30mg but I'm not getting enough sleep.  What to do ?

I no longer feel agitated when I wake up, but I used to doze off several hours before getting up

[Bluemoon3]

If I take 35mg tonight, will I feel as I was before stopping ?

 

[Shep]

7 hours ago, Bluemoon3 said:

If I take 35mg tonight, will I feel as I was before stopping ?

 

 

I don't know if you will or not, Bluemoon. Please pick a dose and stick to it. Again: 

 

On 12/26/2020 at 5:05 AM, Shep said:

Please note it takes 4 days for your nervous system to register a change in dose and several weeks for the nervous system to adjust. 

 

 

Your nervous system is still trying to adjust, so you may have some good nights and bad nights. 

 

But constantly changing your dose is bad for your nervous system and can lead to kindling.

 

Benzoinfo.com - Benzodiazepine Kindling

 

Quote

Kindling, in layman’s terms, is as if the nervous system has a memory of the past withdrawal(s). This memory of prior withdrawal(s) and/or damage still remains imprinted within the nervous system and subsequent withdrawals and/or damage are worse because the nervous system recalls that it has been sensitized/damaged in prior withdrawal(s).

 

Making a lot of abrupt changes can also lead to kindling, so you want to be consistent with your dose and give your nervous system enough time to adjust to the change. 

 

This thread may help with some of your symptoms:

 

Tips to help sleep: so many of us have that awful withdrawal insomnia

 

Wearing a sleep mask, staying off the computer, wearing light-blocking glasses in the evenings, etc. can all help.

 

7 hours ago, Bluemoon3 said:

I took 32.5mg of Seresta at 9pm.  I slept from 10 p.m. to 3:40 a.m. instead of the usual 10 p.m. to 4:30 a.m. when I was taking 35 mg.  I feel better than yesterday on 30mg but I'm not getting enough sleep.  What to do ?

I no longer feel agitated when I wake up, but I used to doze off several hours before getting up

 

There's only a 50 minute difference in your sleep, not several hours. I don't understand what you mean. 

[Bluemoon3]

Thanks. You give me better advice than doctors.They told me I could take more occasionally and quit the next day without any problem.  They also told me to take 20mg in the evening and add 20mg during the night if I was not asleep because it was best to try to take less.  I felt very bad the next day and I did not understand.  I kept changing doses.

 

 I feel OK today. I will keep 32,5mg tonight. 
I am just scared of not sleeping enough each night. I never feel the urge to sleep again.  With Seresta, sleep comes by surprise. 

[Bluemoon3]

I still slept from 10 p.m. to 3:30 a.m.  I confirm that every little decrease in Seresta causes me to lose sleep.
 

Under Largactil, I had a decrease in motivation but I was able to do a lot of things.  Under Seresta, it's a disaster.  I have trouble concentrating and feel dizzy all the time.  This feeling scares me.  It prevents me from having an active life.  But I don't feel able to sleep without medication.  Could I replace Seresta with something that doesn't make me dizzy?

[Shep]

5 hours ago, Bluemoon3 said:

 Could I replace Seresta with something that doesn't make me dizzy?

 

People report dizziness from all classes of psychiatric drugs. This is a sign of nervous system destabilization. If you replace Seresta, you'll go into withdrawal from it. This would make the dizziness worse. 

 

If you feel you need a drug change, please work with your doctor. With your pregnancy, you really should be getting medical advice. We're not medical professionals here, so we can't help you set up a better drug cocktail. We can only offer the harm-reduction advice of safe tapering of the drug you're currently taking. 

[Bluemoon3]

1 hour ago, Shep said:

 

People report dizziness from all classes of psychiatric drugs. This is a sign of nervous system destabilization. If you replace Seresta, you'll go into withdrawal from it. This would make the dizziness worse. 

The dizziness, weakness and loss of concentration started only when I took Seresta. It was a bad idea from the doctor to add one drug... When I removed 2,5mg, I felt more focused but I slept less. 

1 hour ago, Shep said:

 

If you feel you need a drug change, please work with your doctor. With your pregnancy, you really should be getting medical advice.

I won’t make any change before the delivery. I was wondering for after it. I need to be patient. 

[Shep]

When is your baby due, Bluemoon? 

[Bluemoon3]

I realized another symptom.  I used to cry easily and I can't do it anymore.  I would like though, it would do me good sometimes.  I don't think I'm depressed because I'm making plans.  Where does this problem come from?  What part of the brain is touched ?  It’s since I stopped Largactil.  I only have 3 symptoms left: head spinning, inability to cry, and insomnia.  The worst part is the fear of not sleeping.

[Bluemoon3]

Last night was the first time I managed to fall asleep again!!!  I slept from 10.30pm-3.30am / 4 am-7.30am

It’s a huge progress for me. 

[Shep]

Excellent update, Bluemoon. Very glad you slept better. 

[Shep]

16 hours ago, Bluemoon3 said:

I realized another symptom.  I used to cry easily and I can't do it anymore.  I would like though, it would do me good sometimes.  I don't think I'm depressed because I'm making plans.  Where does this problem come from?  What part of the brain is touched ?  It’s since I stopped Largactil.  I only have 3 symptoms left: head spinning, inability to cry, and insomnia.  The worst part is the fear of not sleeping.

 

Psychiatric drugs can cause emotional numbing, which separates you from your emotions. This is very common. It will go away once you taper off the drug and go into the healing process. Please see:

 

Apathy, anhedonia, emotional numbness, emotional anesthesia

 

 

 

[Bluemoon3]

39 minutes ago, Shep said:

 

Psychiatric drugs can cause emotional numbing, which separates you from your emotions. This is very common. It will go away once you taper off the drug and go into the healing process. Please see:

 

Apathy, anhedonia, emotional numbness, emotional anesthesia

 

 

My case is special as It started when I tapered Largactil. I think it’s a withdrawal symptom. I wonder when my brain will fully recover from Largactil. 

Edited December 30, 2020 by Shep
fixed quote box

[Shep]

7 minutes ago, Bluemoon3 said:

My case is special as It started when I tapered Largactil. I think it’s a withdrawal symptom. I wonder when my brain will fully recover from Largactil. 

 

It could be both a side effect of the benzo and a withdrawal symptom from the Largactil. 

 

But that doesn't mean you won't recover from both. Please see:

 

Success stories: Recovery from withdrawal

 

[Bluemoon3]

I do not think I have anhedonia. I am making plans for the future and I am enjoying spending time with my family. I just don’t understand why I am not able to cry anymore. it’s just difficult to accept what medicine did to me. 
 

I realise I made a lot of improvement. I sleep more, I am calmer. 

[manymoretodays]

Hi Bluemoon3,

That sounds really great.  So much improvement.

 

When is your baby due, or what part of pregnancy are you in right now?  And so hoping you are seeing a doctor for prenatal care now.

 

You had mentioned some trauma I believe, as well, in your first post.  And often, or almost always I think........that can also play a huge role in symptoms.  I do so hope that you are getting the support and understanding that you need on the ground....or off line.

 

I don't know why you would want to continue with medications after giving birth.  I see you asking about other medications.

 

Yes, I think you'll recover as well Bluemoon3.  And grow stronger as well.

 

Best, L, P, H, and G,

mmt

 

 

[Bluemoon3]

1 hour ago, manymoretodays said:

Hi Bluemoon3,

That sounds really great.  So much improvement.

 

When is your baby due, or what part of pregnancy are you in right now?  And so hoping you are seeing a doctor for prenatal care now.

Hi !
I am in the 3rd term. I have a lot of prenatal care appointements. 

1 hour ago, manymoretodays said:

 

You had mentioned some trauma I believe, as well, in your first post.  And often, or almost always I think........that can also play a huge role in symptoms.  I do so hope that you are getting the support and understanding that you need on the ground....or off line.

Yes, that is why I am scared of not beeing able to sleep without medicine anymore. 

1 hour ago, manymoretodays said:

 

I don't know why you would want to continue with medications after giving birth.  I see you asking about other medications.

Seresta is really bad with me. I ve had feelings of physically empty head since this afternoon. It’s a new symptom that started this week. It comes and goes. But I think my brain is very fragile and i might not feel better if I changed of medicine. I hope my sleep is stabilizing. Usually I go to bed very late (not before 2am) when I don’t work. Seresta is making me sleep at 10pm/11pm but also I ´ am pregnant. I do not know how the rhythm of my sleep should be. 
 

take care

[Altostrata]

10 hours ago, Bluemoon3 said:

I just don’t understand why I am not able to cry anymore.

 

This is a typical effect of psychiatric drugs.

 

You may wish to ask your doctor or pregnancy clinic for a referral to a sleep coach or psychotherapist who will help you learn non-drug techniques to improve sleep.

 

 

[Bluemoon3]

Since yesterday, I no longer feel the effects of the decrease in Seresta and  I'm sleeping better now. 32,5mg makes no difference with the 40mg I used to take. Maybe I should taper next month too.

Thanks to the end of the confinement, I can spend my time with family and friends.  
 

[Bluemoon3]

I wonder if I am still experiencing the effects of withdrawing from olanzapine and largactil.  My only problem was insomnia.  So when should I try to decrease Seresta, which I need to sleep ?  I can't wait to see how I will be when I tap off and stop Seresta.  Do you think it's reasonable to try to take 2.5mg off in a month?  It’s really hard to cut the pill into 4. It’s not very regular but I don’t notice any change in condition.  Do benzodiazepines have similar side effects?  The psychiatrist asked me if I wanted to change my treatment later.  Maybe the switch will be easier before tapering, but I'm afraid of breaking my brain even more.  What do you think ?

[Shep]

2 hours ago, Bluemoon3 said:

Do you think it's reasonable to try to take 2.5mg off in a month?  It’s really hard to cut the pill into 4.

 

If you need to use a scale or taper by liquid, please note the links in my post here.

 

Since you're currently at 32.5 mg, removing 2.5 mg would be a 7.7% reduction. That's within the recommended taper rate.

 

2 hours ago, Bluemoon3 said:

Do benzodiazepines have similar side effects?  The psychiatrist asked me if I wanted to change my treatment later.  Maybe the switch will be easier before tapering, but I'm afraid of breaking my brain even more.  What do you think ?

 

What are you thinking of changing to? 

[Bluemoon3]

I had forgotten a symptom of Seresta.  My blood pressure is low, but it's not too bad either.  The doctor reminded me this morning that I will have to stop Seresta without waiting for months.  Can you advise me ?  Is removing 5mg per month too much?  Or 2.5mg but it's less than 10%?  Is it safer to do the titration?  In what liquid?  The doctor doesn't impose a method on me.  He lets me see how I feel. 

[Bluemoon3]

20 hours ago, Shep said:

 

If you need to use a scale or taper by liquid, please note the links in my post here.

Thanks. I hadn’t seen your answer. 

Quote

 

Since you're currently at 32.5 mg, removing 2.5 mg would be a 7.7% reduction. That's within the recommended taper rate.

Would it be better to remove 3,25mg ? I removed 7,5mg with not much problems. When I removed 5mg, I was tense for a couple of days. When I removed 2,5mg more, I had weird feelings in my head for 3 days. I am really hesitating. 

Quote

 

 

What are you thinking of changing to? 

The doctor asked if I wanted to change Seresta for another medicine after delivery. He did not say what. He is against putting me on antipsychotics again. I think he helped for that. I almost took it back when I had many withdrawal/seresta symptoms. Now I can see my progress. 

[Bluemoon3]

On 12/25/2020 at 2:05 PM, Shep said:

You can develop a dependency in a few days to a few weeks with benzos, so it's hard to say if you are or you aren't dependent. You've been on this drug for about 42 days, so you may have some dependency. 

 

But if your insomnia from the Largactil is getting better, you may be okay with a faster benzo taper.

 

Seresta is not very water soluble for a solution, but you could make a suspension by crushing it and adding it to water.  

 

How to make a liquid from tablets or capsules

 

Is Seresta available in a liquid concentrate in your country? That's the easiest and most accurate way to taper. 

 

What dose size are your Seresta pills? If you're going to do a rapid taper, you could get the smallest dose size and then use a pill cutter. If you have the 10 mg size pills, you can cut that into fourths and reduce by 2.5 mg increments. 

 

How to cut up tablets or pills (using a pill cutter)

 

Or you could use a scale for more accuracy: 

 

Using a digital scale to measure doses

i bought scale but the pill cutter is worse than a knife. I ll try to buy a better one. 

On 12/25/2020 at 2:05 PM, Shep said:

 

So there are several options for tapering. 

It explains it with beads, not with power. It seems very difficult to take the powder from the pill crusher and put it into gelatine gelule. Do you know people who do it ?

[Shep]

15 hours ago, Bluemoon3 said:

It seems very difficult to take the powder from the pill crusher and put it into gelatine gelule. Do you know people who do it ?

 

You can crush the tablet and then weigh it on your scale and then place it in a capsule. 

[Bluemoon3]

1 hour ago, Shep said:

 

You can crush the tablet and then weigh it on your scale and then place it in a capsule. 

I ordered a new pill cutter. I was also thinking about crush the tablet, weigh it and put it into water. 
 

Yestersay I walked a lot and slept from 10.30pm to 6.45 am. I am scared that they confine us again. Visiting family makes me walk and feel good. 

[Bluemoon3]

@Shep Thanks for all. I really need to speak with people who understand how I feel. I will remove 2,5mg. Which day of the month could I do it ? Is Jan 26th ok ?  

[ChessieCat]

FYI:  Using a single sided razor blade might be easier that a pill cutter.  Also tablets, or parts of tablets can be sometimes be split horizontally like cutting a cake to add filling.

[Bluemoon3]

The new pill cutter has arrived and it is working pretty well

[Bluemoon3]

I slept from 11pm to 6.30am.  I walked more than 1hr yesterday. My mood is really better. 

[Bluemoon3]

I had stopped coffee and tea. I felt very tired till noon every day. I took a green tea this morning and it gives my energy back without anxiety. I will see how I sleep tonight. I hope it’s not disturbing my brain. 

[Bluemoon3]

I really feel better.  I sleep 6-7 hours a night.  I can even fall back to sleep if I wake up too early.  I still have 2 problems: impossible to cry and sleep without Seresta.  What really worries me is that I never feel sleep come on until I take seresta.  How long does insomnia usually last?  Are there any studies on the subject?