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"Please, believe me"

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Neuroplastic

Many people may find it very helpful; we all know how difficult it is for our families/friends to believe in protracted WD. In case of those whose closest ones eventually realized how real this illness is, what helped? Was it the obviousness of the symptoms, or something that you read to them, showed? What was it?

 

We also all know how the closest ones may help in alleviating the symptoms by simply... believing in their existence. Please, share your stories about what might have convinced others that your WD syndrome is... WD syndrome.

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alexjuice

I got my dad to read "Anatomy of an Epidemic" by R. Whitaker.

 

It's not about w/d at all, really. Still it broke the dam of 'assumed medical omnipotence' bs that allowed him to imagine that everything is not exactly as neat and perfect as he thought it was. From there it wasn't a huge step to accept w/d.

 

Alex.i

 

ps - Ideally one of us should go on Larry King's TV show and share personal experience. Someone start making calls ASAP, who knows how long Larry has left!

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Hopeful

ps - Ideally one of us should go on Larry King's TV show and share personal experience. Someone start making calls ASAP, who knows how long Larry has left!

 

 

Too late, Alex...it's Piers now...forgot his last name (maybe Morgan???), but the guy that won Celebrity Apprentice. There I go again with those reality shows :rolleyes:

 

Great news you made headway with your Dad.

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Healing

Great idea for a topic, NP!

 

I have to think about this more, but, off the cuff, I think my experience is that people either believe me immediately or never.

 

This goes for family, friends, neighbors, colleagues, health professionals, shop clerks. Either they instantly get it or they still haven't gotten it. I don't think I've had *anyone* have a conversion experience on the road to Damascus. This is pretty interesting to realize! I'll think about it some more.

 

I met a woman once at a workshop who had gotten very sick for about three years. It was initially a mystery, and later turned out to be a massive mold problem in the house she lived in. She could barely eat, she had such an allergic reaction to everything. (Alex, she ate a few grains of rice every 15 minutes or so throughout the day.)

 

Anyway, she told me that she had a terrible time with people not believing she was really that ill, or thinking it was all in her head. But, she said *later* after she was well, one after the other, many of the disbelievers had some kind of experience in their own lives that made the penny drop, and they said, "I believe you now." And she said this would happen to me, too.

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Brandy

I got my dad to read "Anatomy of an Epidemic" by R. Whitaker.

 

It's not about w/d at all, really. Still it broke the dam of 'assumed medical omnipotence' bs that allowed him to imagine that everything is not exactly as neat and perfect as he thought it was. From there it wasn't a huge step to accept w/d.

 

Alex.i

 

ps - Ideally one of us should go on Larry King's TV show and share personal experience. Someone start making calls ASAP, who knows how long Larry has left!

 

 

 

ps - Ideally one of us should go on Larry King's TV show and share personal experience. Someone start making calls ASAP, who knows how long Larry has left!

 

 

Too late, Alex...it's Piers now...forgot his last name (maybe Morgan???), but the guy that won Celebrity Apprentice. There I go again with those reality shows :rolleyes:

 

Great news you made headway with your Dad.

 

Yes, Larry King has been replaced by Piers Morgan, who probably would NOT be the person for something like this.

 

I've had a few ideas for other shows but I'll have to try to remember what they were! :rolleyes:

 

A key issue is that TV stations/networks are very wary of losing the big bucks they get - or hope to get - from pharma commercial advertising. :angry: Big consideration, and is with many things, unfortunately.

 

A few possibilities come to mind - an HBO special would be great, and maybe Frontline or Independent Lens series on PBS (those are independenttly produced shows though still have to be acceptable to series and to PBS, of course; not familiar with exactly how that works.

 

Another thing one has to bear in mind is that a LOT of people - including people on, and also in the decision-making capacities - are on these meds and love them. (Many doctors and other health care professionals are too, but that's another story.) Bringing all this up because you don't always know where people are coming from when you talk to them about these meds. Really, really, really.

 

Doesn't mean it's impossible, and there have been some things on TV in the past. But probably a lot of tries will be needed before getting even initial interest, and then - as with all media - a long road after that. But it would be great if a reasonable (would probably have to present both "views" etc. in most media shows, but could still get important concepts out there that would be understood by those who need them, or who would see loved ones in them).

 

Charlie Rose on PBS and Anderson Cooper on CNN (latter might not be able to get it past CNN ownership for reasons mentioned) might be possibilities for someone with "credentials" or specific newsworthy angle to contact.

 

Darn, just thought of another and forgot what it was. I'll try to remember.

 

btw, this is a delicate subject but Anderson Cooper might be more receptive than some people to how meds affect people because his brother tragically committed suicide and his mother believes the trigger was probably an asthma inhalant's side effects. (For the record, this occurred before SSRIs.) I've never met Mr. Cooper (or his mom, Gloria Vanderbilt) but he's written about how painful this still is for him.)

 

Mods, if that last paragraph is not appropriate for this site for any reason, feel free to delete it.

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Brandon

I love this topic! It's something that I battle with everyday. I'm working hard on my mom right now. My father is an MD and I'm sure he'll never believe me, I've touched on the subject and he won't have it. Many people just believe everything that they are told by "professionals". Some people can't and won't believe something unless it happens to them.

I'm trying my argument with the point that I don't want anything that isn't backed by sound science (e.g: depressed/anxious/OCD et cetera individuals need more serotonin while blocking their metabolism of serotonin).

I don't want pseudo-science, conjecture, or hypothesis'.

I talk about my own health issues, which she (my mom) knows I've had... She took me to a bunch of specialists when I was younger. My dad thought all of it was in my head or it was stress (even when I wasn't even remotely stressed) when I complained about severe chest pain and severe breathing issues.

 

Interesting story about the black mold. That stuff is awful.

 

I'm going to check out this book 'Anatomy of an Epidemic' as it's been mentioned to me several times on here.

 

I'm looking for an all encompassing comprehensive documentary or book on the subject.

Anyone seen or read one? That covers all of the issues.

-withdrawal

-health problems

-mood issues

-suicide/homicide/school shootings

-pharma

 

If we had a really good one, that covered all the bases. I think it would help us on our way to getting our loved ones, our friends and family to believe us...

 

(I saw Generation RX, Marketing Madness and one more and they were all just about how greedy the pharmaceutical companies are)

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Hopeful

Brandon,

 

I don't know of an all encompassing book...here are a couple of sites if you are not familiar with you may be interested in checking out:

 

http://www.breggin.com/ (you can read about Breggin on Wikipedia too)

http://ssristories.com

 

Also, check out the Books on Psychiatric Drugs

topic located "In the Media Thread" here:

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/218-books-on-psychiatric-drugs/

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cinephile

Brandon --

 

You're not alone in your struggle. Many, many people are still under the impression that we have the best health care in the world and our doctors are right up there with family members on the "trustables" list.

 

I honestly see the issue of child/adolescent psych med prescribing as our Vietnam. The parallels are striking: some of our best and brightest boys (and this time girls) are going through such anguish (and sometimes death) for no good reason, yet our families and the establishment don't believe us. Just like fathers couldn't understand why their sons couldn't "snap out of" their PTSD by maintaining that "Your old man survived the big one and I turned out fine! You're home now and it's time to get on with your life, like I did!," our parents (certainly your father) choose not to believe there is a HUGE problem going on. The only difference is that this time, it's the ESTABLISHMENT that is spitting on us (not the counterculture) -- mainstream psychiatry and medicine still doesn't admit how poisonous these meds can be, EVEN AFTER there is a suicide warning on the med boxes now!

 

Perhaps a short anecdote will help you feel better and less alone:

 

My acupuncturist got into acupuncture because of her near total loss of faith in medicine after she had open heart surgery in her late 20s for a heart defect that was proven to be caused by her acne medication. But get this: who, pray tell, do you think put her on the acne medication? Her dad of course, the MD! Once she went on the med in her teens, she was often short of breath and had pains in her chest. It never occurred to her or her dad that it was the med, although she knew something just wasn't right. Her dad would even tease her and call her weak when she couldn't keep up when they were walking/hiking together.

 

Well, it all came to a head when she went to a Chinese herbalist to treat her symptoms naturally (as the prescription meds didn't help her and only made her sicker -- sound familiar?). He put a stethoscope to her chest and listened to her chest and immediately said he couldn't treat her and that she needed to go to an ER immediately. She did and the doctors told her the shocking story that she would need open heart surgery to fix the malformation the acne medication had caused.

 

She had the surgery and the doctors told her not to worry about the recovery process.

 

"You'll feel like the Bionic woman" they said about her post-surgery recovery and her new quality of life. They said it would take a few months for her to recover and go back to work. Well, THREE YEARS LATER she started feeling somewhat normal after a pitch-black post-surgical depression began to lift. Of course her doctors never warned her that open-heart surgery could cause depression. Nope, she had to google it to find the support groups (again, sound familiar?).

 

And TO THIS DAY her dad still won't admit he was to blame for all this and didn't know how to make her well. He avoids the subject and basically just says, "I'm glad you're well again."

 

So please don't feel that you're alone! *In fact, you should listen to the first 15 minutes of my interview with Robert Whitaker (the author of ANATOMY OF AN EPIDEMIC): I brought up one young woman's struggle with pregnancy and SSRI addiction with people like you in mind -- I wanted to give those suffering in silence a voice. Specifically, listen to minutes 3:52-16:00. If you can, listen to the whole interview, as it will nicely bring you up to speed on a lot of issues we're all dealing with in the psych community. The audio is thin mono and Bob has a soft voice so I recommend headphones. Here is the link to the downloadable audio file:

 

Robert Whitaker interview

 

I also heartily recommend ANATOMY. I have already read it but was leafing through it again tonight and am just floored at Bob's writing and research skills. As a fellow journalist, I can honestly say he's done a hell of a job. In fact, I've convinced my dad to read it as he was the one who convinced me to go on SSRIs 13 long years ago when I was 14 (an eerily similar time period as you!). My dad is a smart and intellectually adventurous guy who can handle harsh truths so it will be FASCINATING to discuss this book with him. I honestly think that is one of ANATOMY's hidden strengths: it's the perfect ice-breaker and primer on just what us (unwitting?) psych patients are up against for those who don't know just how bad the state of affairs really is. Once anyone finishes reading the book, even if they don't agree with everything Whitaker says, their outlook not just on psychiatry, but on US health care, will forever be changed.

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compsports

Wow Cinephile, I think your post wins the "WTF" award for today. It is mind boggling that a doctor didn't recognize that his daughter was suffering side effects from an acne med that resulted in open heart surgery.

 

As far as meds and side effects, I am convinced one family member is dealing with this issue. But I know if I said something, it would be blown off big time as this person is totally in the camp of mainstream medicine.

 

I haven't really spoken to my family about my issues and unfortunately, those opportunities don't come up too often for several reasons. I think they thought that once I got off of everything last year that everything would be fine.

 

But heck, at least there isn't a medical professional in my family who did harmful things to me like what happened to that woman you mentioned.

 

CS

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Brandy

Medical professionals are probably devastated when family members - or anyone - are negatively impacted by meds.

 

First of all, they believe in those things and wanted to help people (and in many other health conditions meds do indeed save suffering and even lives). Hard to have what you dedicated your life to turn on you like that.

 

And probably huge guilt when it's a family member. I certainly would be devastated if I were that father who'd been...

 

oh, that's weird - I was typing this and all of a sudden a screen that was titled "China on TV" with a small "This URL is not valid" box on top of it covered this page mid-sentence. I clicked on the X in upper right corner and it went away. Don't know what caused that and lost my concentration for a moment!

 

 

... as I was saying (!), I certainly would be devastated if I were that father who'd been trying to help his daughter with what he was trained in and believed helped people. When I was hospitalized with seizures after going off a high dose of benzos very fast long ago, the other patient in the room was there for benzo w/d also, and her husband was a pharmacist! They both seemed like they were in shock. The husband clearly adored his wife and looked stunned and clearly felt terrible about what she was going through.

 

The truth about these meds needs to come out for everyone. (Much more is known now about benzos, but I think the problems are acknowledged but still greatly misunderstood, and usually thought of in terms of benzo abuse, which certainly occurs but is a different matter.)

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Healing

Wow Cinephile, I think your post wins the "WTF" award for today. It is mind boggling that a doctor didn't recognize that his daughter was suffering side effects from an acne med that resulted in open heart surgery.

 

Yup, Cine gets the daily SA WTF? award.

 

Seriously, thanks for telling that story, Cine. Very good one. You can use it in your book.

 

 

 

(And Brandy had a synchro....)

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Altostrata

...I'm looking for an all encompassing comprehensive documentary or book on the subject.

Anyone seen or read one? That covers all of the issues.

-withdrawal

-health problems

-mood issues

-suicide/homicide/school shootings

-pharma

 

If we had a really good one, that covered all the bases. I think it would help us on our way to getting our loved ones, our friends and family to believe us...

 

Brandon, we're writing that book right here!

 

I do think Anatomy of an Epidemic is what you want.

 

Anatomy of an Epidemic cites a lot of studies and, somewhere in the middle, describes the pattern of adverse drug reactions and misdiagnosis of bipolar that have put many young people like you in your position.

 

If you look at the package inserts for the antidepressants you took when you were younger, you will find that only Prozac has been approved by the FDA for children. ALL of the others have black-box warnings about giving them to children, as they can cause suicidality, aggression, and other self-destructive behaviors. This information is also in the Physician's Desk Reference -- your father has a copy of this.

 

These inserts will show that the effect of these drugs on your nervous system may have been deleterious to your health, and explain your behavior changes.

 

Dr. Peter Breggin, a psychiatrist http://www.breggin.com/, has written a book, Your Drug May Be Your Problem, that may explain to your father how withdrawal caused your deterioration.

 

(Brandy, that probably was an ad spawned by a different site you'd been looking at.)

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Brandy

 

 

(Brandy, that probably was an ad spawned by a different site you'd been looking at.)

 

It clearly was! But it threw my concentration totally off!

 

I'm used to "pop-ups" and "pop-unders" (think I'm remembering correctly what those are called), but this one covered the entire screen!

 

I probably moused over something while typing - no matter!

 

But I suddenly had a giant Chinese face filling my whole computer screen!

 

Was so glad I could X it out. Was ready to consider revising "1984" for this millennium - after "welcoming our new computer overlords" of course lol!

Sorry for the digression there. I totally lost most of what I was writing, but did my best to pick it up with what little I could remember.

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Brandon

I love you guys! All of you!

 

Hopeful:

Thanks for the links!

 

Cinephile:

Thanks for sharing that story; it did make me feel better and less alone.

Great analogy with the Vietnam. I've heard Ann Blake Tracy take it a step further and refer to it as our holocaust.

Eerily similar situation with us and with myself and that girl. Yeah I went on my meds at age 13 or 14 and was on them for 14 years... Crazy. My dad put me on Accutane and all sorts of other drugs... Growing up; I was a guinea pig. He never knew what was wrong with me. I was like "dad; I can't breath, my heart hurts, I can't think, what's wrong with me????" He had no clue, nor did any of his partners at his office...

I downloaded that clip and will be listening to it tonight.

SA WTF award!

 

Surviving:

As always thank you! I see what you mean; we are writing that book here!

I'm so glad to be a part of this group.

I am a writer, I wish I had the concentration and the mind to organize my thoughts properly and write now, but I'm not there yet...

 

Much Love,

~B

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Altostrata

You do a very good job communicating, Brandon.

 

One thing, though -- be realistic in your expectations.

 

Many doctors reflexively deny iatrogenic damage to avoid liability issues. This may become a habit.

 

Your father may not immediately change his way of thinking. If you are patient and firm, and don't make it an emotional issue, you may be able to win his respect for your point of view.

 

But it might take time.

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Healing

Wow, Cine's story was even more exactly like Brandon's than I realized!

 

Brandon, we're writing that book right here!

 

I see what you mean; we are writing that book here!

 

Well, guys.....I thought *years* ago on the other site that we should put together a book based on the wealth of fascinating anecdotal info there. Didn't happen.

 

So, maybe we can keep this in our sights. A book does need to be put together exactly as Brandon describes, and it doesn't exist yet. And if it were a group effort, it would be easier.

 

It could be the classic for our times, like "Our Bodies, Ourselves" was, put together by The Boston Women's Health Book Collective in 1973. "How to Survive Antidepressant Withdrawal."

 

The chapters could basically follow the format of the Forums, and we would cull the key ideas from each Forum.

 

I think it's just plain weird how many writers there are on this site.

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Brandy

I think it's just plain weird how many writers there are on this site.

 

Maybe there's something genetic that could lead to research finding a cure for everyone! :D:lol::rolleyes:

 

Well, maybe the writers can figure that out and let us all know!

 

I wonder if I still have my original first-edition copy of OBOS. Think I may have given it to charity after buying newer edition... which may have been donated too later on...

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Brandy

Neuro, I'm still trying to think of something that might be helpful.

 

As I think I've mentioned privately, I didn't have anyone I knew take me seriously or understand.

 

Ironically - one exception. My doctor. He was scared shitless - but didn't know what to do.

 

Maybe one of my dearest friends took me seriously, though I doubt it. But I think subconsciously she took me very seriously - because she dropped me like a stone. I have a lot of reason to think she may have gone on ADs and didn't want to know. Can't give specifics here but I do mean good reason. A lot of other people I know turn out to be on ADs too. Which probably explains why so many skinny pensive people I know have been getting fat and happy, one after another in rapid succession over many years.

 

Truly wish I could be more help.

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Altostrata

Writers like to participate in forums because they can put their ideas out there for an appreciative audience.

 

I bought several copies of Anatomy of an Epidemic and gave them to doctors I thought would appreciate them. Aside from my psychiatrist, who already understands drug dangers, my gynecologist and internist were very enthusiastic about getting the book and swore they would read it.

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Healing

More thoughts on our Survival Guide, first edition 2012, St. Martin's Press --

 

The fact that Sur is running an organized site, with all related info kept together, will make it much easier to put the book together.

 

Robert Whitaker will, I'm sure, be happy to write the Foreward.

 

:)

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Altostrata

Organized?.....hmmm.....

 

Brandon, see http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/255-pubmed-central-source-for-journal-articles/

 

In PubMed, you can look for medical journal articles to support any point you'd like to make. For example, a search for "venlafaxine children" (Effexor and children) yields 116 results, among them free full text for

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21286371

 

J Can Acad Child Adolesc Psychiatry. 2011 Feb;20(1):60-7.

SSRIs and SNRIs: A review of the Discontinuation Syndrome in Children and Adolescents.

Hosenbocus S, Chahal R.

 

Source

Department of Psychiatry, Royal Inland Hospital, Kamloops, British Columbia.

 

Abstract

 

OBJECTIVE:

To review the occurrence, clinical relevance and characteristics of the discontinuation syndrome in children and adolescents who have been on a selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor (SSRI) or a serotonin/norepinephrine re-uptake inhibitor (SNRI) for various conditions as an update for physicians prescribing these medications in this population.

 

METHOD:

An on-line literature search was done using MEDLINE, PubMed, CINAHL, PsychARTICLES, and PsychINFO with the following key words: selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors or SSRIs, serotonin/norepinephrine re-uptake inhibitors or SNRIs, discontinuation syndrome, pediatric or children or adolescents, occurrences and characteristics.

 

RESULTS:

Not a single randomized placebo-controlled trial was found that addresses this condition solely in the child and adolescent population. A couple of papers written by the same authors indicate that children and adolescents taking an SSRI definitely experience discontinuation reactions that can be mild, moderate or severe when the medication is stopped suddenly or high doses are reduced substantially. Among the SSRIs paroxetine seems to be the worst offender and fluoxetine the least while sertraline and fluvoxamine tend to be intermediate. However, the most serious discontinuation reactions came from the SNRI venlafaxine. There was no study or reports found on citalopram, another SSRI that is commonly prescribed in children and youth. While the adult literature abounds with papers describing the different aspects of this condition including clinical features, diagnostic criteria, management and prevention, the limited information available to-date in children and adolescents indicate that the essential features of the discontinuation syndrome may not be significantly different than in adults. There were no specific characteristics identified relating to the child population.

 

CONCLUSION:

In considering the use of an SSRI in children, physicians must seriously weigh the not so clear benefits against the risks of adverse reactions including the discontinuation syndrome. The frequency and severity of this reaction seem dependent on the SSRI half-life and although children metabolize drugs much faster than adults the reactions to-date have been reported as similar. The use of fluoxetine with its long half-life appears safer in this respect with paroxetine and venlafaxine causing the most concerns. Patients and their families should be well informed of the risks of stopping the medication abruptly and instructed not to do so without consulting their physician. Physicians in Canada who are using these medications off-label in children need to be knowledgeable and vigilant about such adverse reactions. These could be avoided through adequate follow ups which will also ensure better adherence. They may benefit from this review even though the information comes mostly form the adult literature. More prospective studies are needed to clarify this issue and identify any specific features relating to the pediatric population.

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angie007

This is one topic that really needs exposing, for all of us here,

and for the 1000s that come behind us.

 

You see, its really difficult unless you have walked in our shoes,

to believe that legal prescription drugs can do this to innocent people,

and for those we tell - oh boy, have i struggled with that one.

 

Some of my closest friends have told me, " its not all the drug", and they

have seen such a change in personality, ive been labeled as a "drama queen"

when ive had visitors and recalled symptoms, ive had others tell me " get a life".

 

My husband, he lives here, he has read so much and says he knows everything he needs

to know about these drugs and wd - he is sadly clueless, as he still expects me to go

out for meals - when i have zero appetite, attend family functions, weddings etc, and its

heart breaking that i just dont feel well enough to participate, or i have symptoms that

just prevent me attending.

I would really love for some of these people to live this experience for just 1 or 2 days,

because thats the only way they will really get it!!!!!

 

As for doctors, ah well, ive even spoken to hospital doctors, they have little clue,

they tell me wd ends some weeks or months after your last dose - I WISH i could believe that.

 

No wonder, we all feel so alone in wd, how can we get the support we need, when so very few people really understand.

Thankyou for this, and for the person who sent that link, i think you deserve the

SA award for doing what you have.

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Brandon

Why is it always specific to children adolescents/young adults? What is the rational or motive behind that? Like with the black box suicide warnings. They say "... might increase suicidal thoughts in children young adults." Why would it just apply to them and not adults? We know it has the same potential effects in adults too..

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Altostrata

Excellent point, Brandon.

 

It is true adults are also at risk. But the psychiatric industry has avoided taking responsibility for this -- it would reduce profits too much.

 

However, they are forced to give more protection to children by outraged parents and lawsuits. They more easily dodge culpability for injury to adults.

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angie007

Brandon,

 

That was a an argument i debated with both MOds

at that other site, when the black box warnings came out.

This drug produces the same results in people, no matter

what age they are.

 

Its the drug effects on the brain and its chemicals,

why ( as they say) is that more prevelent in teens???

Its a rubbish theory in my book, i havent got a teenage brain ( thank GOD)

And ive had that too, have to admit it was worse in ct.

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compsports

I feel that Ritalin and Prozac caused me to have suicidal ideation. I was 40 when this all happened.

 

CS

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Claudius

I think there is a reason that they say that the drugs are more dangerous at age under 25/ And that is that losing years of your life has much more impact at youger age than at elder age. When you loose 3-4 years due to WD when you are in school or university, you loose almost your whole childhood, school-time or student-time. And you cannot resume this when you are finally healed. At elder age, this is a bit less prevalent. I am off work now for more than 3 years due to WD but when healing finally comes, I will be able to resume working if I can still get a job. It will still be difficult but losing 3-4 years at elder age has definately less impact that losing 3-4 years during childhood or adolescence... But that does of course not mean that the drugs are "safer" in any way at higher age.

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compsports

I think there is a reason that they say that the drugs are more dangerous at age under 25/ And that is that losing years of your life has much more impact at youger age than at elder age. When you loose 3-4 years due to WD when you are in school or university, you loose almost your whole childhood, school-time or student-time. And you cannot resume this when you are finally healed. At elder age, this is a bit less prevalent. I am off work now for more than 3 years due to WD but when healing finally comes, I will be able to resume working if I can still get a job. It will still be difficult but losing 3-4 years at elder age has definately less impact that losing 3-4 years during childhood or adolescence... But that does of course not mean that the drugs are "safer" in any way at higher age.

 

Hi Claudius,

 

I understand what you're saying but I have to respectfully disagree.

 

I lost 15 years of my life due to these meds of productive earning years that I will never get back. I lost so many things that I will have a hard time recovering from. It is too emotional for me to even discuss.

 

One of my losses was that my mother died 3 years ago when I was so numb on these meds. I never discussed the necessary issues that I needed to talk about to come to closure with her.

 

I think we all have suffered no matter what age we were put on these meds and depending on the issues, it is very hard to recover from even though all of us are doing our best to have a positive attitude and move forward. But there are some things you just can't get back.

 

CS

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Altostrata

The issuance of black-box warnings on psych drugs by the FDA is purely political. It's public outcry that gets the attention and shames them into action.

 

All of these black-box warnings were strenuously opposed by the pharmaceutical industry and psychiatric establishment, including the warnings about child suicidality and damage to babies born to pregnant women taking medication.

 

The black-box warnings have nothing to do with the extent of risk to everyone, they're just what got through the politics.

 

One of the purposes of this site is to document cases of severe and prolonged withdrawal syndrome to support further warnings and restrictions on these drugs. The Introduction topics are important for this -- so if you haven't started or updated your Intro topic, please do it now.

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Punarbhava

Hi CS.......

 

I understand and deeply sympathize with much of what you have written.

 

Hi Claudius,

 

I understand what you're saying but I have to respectfully disagree.

 

I disagree with Claudius in terms of how losses are perceived by those of us who have encountered such. Perhaps, Claudius is referring to HOW the medical community and society as a whole, view the impact of losses.

 

It's pretty common within the medical establishment to marginalize middle-aged and especially the elderly. Our society seems to hold more reverence for the needs of the youth, while minimizing the needs/value of middle-aged and it's seniors.

 

I don't know if this is what Claudius is referring to but this is how I see it.

 

I do strongly agree with you in regard to how losses are perceived by any age group.

 

I lost 15 years of my life due to these meds of productive earning years that I will never get back.

 

This is indeed true for me as well as so many of us. If my WD experiences, for example, were completed in my thirties, I would have had MANY years to recoup financial losses. I'd have a good 20 years to build some equity through a variety of means.

 

However, when my WD nightmares began in my mid-thirties and until present (now 20 years and still counting) my ability to recover financially is drastically reduced due to the age factor alone.

 

With all that said, I do understand what Claudius is stating as well. One's younger years are suppose to be about preparing oneself (via education) so one can make a decent living so support a future marriage, raising of children etc. So, this loss is indeed just as devastating as my loss in many ways. Losing one's youth delays important critical life phases such as marriage, children, building a career etc.

 

I lost so many things that I will have a hard time recovering from. It is too emotional for me to even discuss.

 

God, I feel for you in a huge way since, I can relate on so many levels. I'm so, so sorry for your losses.

 

Like you, (at least at this time) I cannot even speak about ALL that has been lost withough feeling immediately traumatized on many levels.

 

I think we need to allow a lot more time to pass, to first fully recover from AD WD before we can even begin to process all the emotional stuff. I keep telling myself to just keep focused on recovery and to put all my emotional reactions on the back burner since, it's just not possible for me to fully grieve and ultimately release all the losses at this time.

 

TBH, I do my best to suppress as much as I can since, my CNS cannot handle the intensity of emotions. I do have major meltdowns and extreme fear and confusion as to HOW I'm ever going to recover my life from 20 years of destruction. It's too overwhelming to envision ATM ...........so, I tell myself to leave it alone for now. As my health improves I will tackle one thing at a time.

 

For those of us who are alone the task of rebuilding is indeed much more difficult since, we do not have another income to rely on, nor a partner to support us in any way. This adds to the trauma in a huge way.

 

One of my losses was that my mother died 3 years ago when I was so numb on these meds. I never discussed the necessary issues that I needed to talk about to come to closure with her.

 

Again, I'm so sorry CS. I can relate regarding losing a parent. The only difference is I lost both parents while in the thick of WD experiences however, I had to "numb" myself as much as possible to the pain, since, feeling it too much shot my CNS into more extreme states.

 

So, like you, I haven't fully processed nor arrived at any type of closure in regard to all this. RAther, I was in raw survival mode and had to keep my energies directed towards getting through minute by minute.

 

I completely understand and sympathize regarding being unable to talk about necessary issues that may have had the potential to provide some type of resolution and/or closure.

 

I think we all have suffered no matter what age we were put on these meds and depending on the issues, it is very hard to recover from even though all of us are doing our best to have a positive attitude and move forward. But there are some things you just can't get back.

 

Yes, so incredibly true indeed. Many of the losses are permanent ......never to be recovered again. However, as you mention, we can only move forward with as positive an attitude as possible and I will add that we need to focus on the "possibilities" that are available for present and future happiness as well as the potential, within us, to create happiness today, despite the losses that have occurred.

 

Anyway, please know that my thoughts, expressed within, are not challenging anyone. I'm just sharing and thinking out loud and kind of purging a tiny bit. In doing so it provides a bit of therapeutic benefit, as long as I keep things pretty general.

 

I'll have to explore the deeper issues once, I'm more recovered.

 

Anyway, thanks to every person who shares their thoughts and experiences within each and every thread and post, in all the forums. In doing so you help others to feel less alone with their own thoughts, feelings, reactions and processing and thus, there is a degree of healing that occurs during such transactions.

 

I sincerely and deeply feel for everyone and my heart aches for the pain and losses that you all must endure.

 

Someday, we will process all this and move into a phase of acceptance as a means to release that which cannot be restored and, in doing so, we will free ourselves to explore new dimensions of happiness that we never knew existed.

 

I'm finding out, through necessity, that it's possible to develop a degree of peace even amid chaos, confusion and fear. I have to regularly practice acceptance and in doing so I'm slowly starting to experience the benefit of not being attached to too many things.

 

It is my attachment that creates my greatest stress and pain. When I realize that life is not about guarantees and releasing my "fairy tale" expectations, goes a long way towards accepting that I NEED to foucs on being grateful for what I have in this moment and not to look too far past today and also not to look into the past any more that is necessary since, the past can really destroy my present in a huge way if I allow it.

 

All easier said than done. I know, I so know........but through practice I'm becoming more comfortable with some of my losses. BTW, not saying I have it all together. I don't (lol). I'm just like everyone else, trying to make sense and have a degree of peace with all the losses.

 

Anyway, I've added a few more paragraphs that I didn't plan and I better shut up (lol) since, these such topics can really send me down a philosophical and spiritual exploration journey.

 

Much Kinship and Beautiful Healing to All of Us (On Multiple Levels)

 

Punarbhava

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Claudius

Sorry, I really do not want to minimize the suffering of people who hit WD after adolescence (I am also one of them). I only sought some explanation for the hypothesis that the suicide risk is higher for people below 25 years. I know too well that at any age WD can be atricious and having it at a later age has even an extra risk, you are responsible for earning an income which can be impossible during WD and probably triggered many of the SSRI related suicides. I escaped this scenario because I had financial backup while I am unable to work due to WD for more than 3 years now, but I realize that others can be less lucky in that sense.

CS I am really sorry for your suffering and your many lost years. WD is a destructive monster and we all must find a way to rebuild our lives on the ruins it has created...

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Punarbhava

Many people may find it very helpful; we all know how difficult it is for our families/friends to believe in protracted WD. In case of those whose closest ones eventually realized how real this illness is, what helped? Was it the obviousness of the symptoms, or something that you read to them, showed? What was it?

 

We also all know how the closest ones may help in alleviating the symptoms by simply... believing in their existence. Please, share your stories about what might have convinced others that your WD syndrome is... WD syndrome.

 

 

Neuro.....

 

I just wanted to take a few minutes to express how much I LOVE the title of this thread since, it depicts the true anguish of the inner torment that we experience when trying to get others to BELIEVE (as you mentioned) that we are indeed trapped in a body and mind that are going through torturous, indescribable experiences.

 

Note: Added to the phrase "Please believe me" is an inward scream of "Please help me".

 

 

I remember so vividly how inwardly I was screaming, "PLEASE, PLEASE BELIEVE ME" even though outwardly I was trying to appear as sane as possible just so I wasn't being viewed as, what doctors wished to categorize, as "mental illness".

 

I remember the same words, "please belive me" when I went to the medical establishment for assistance, hoping that just ONE freakin doctor would have a minimal degree of knowledge to validate what I was going through.

 

As we all know, the anguish of not being believed nor understood, creates it's own levels of trauma.

 

I realize your thread is addressing protracted WD but I'm also including the "please believe me" for acute WD as well.

 

In regard to "getting people to believe me". I've given up trying and I realized some time ago that I was contributng to my ongoing hurt, pain and frustration by trying to convince people who had no desire to understand.

 

IF they are at all interested they will take it upon themselves to follow through with recommendations I had made re: a few books that I recommended and/or websites.

 

Sadly, even though I have exhibited overt signs of being extremely and violently ill and incapacitated, not to mention my living environment reflecting that degree of incapacitation, family and friends still chose to walk away.

 

They just didn't want to get involved. I suppose they felt more at peace within abandoning someone they're suppose to love than what they would have felt being involved and caring. Many people consciously choose to "shut down and walk away" because their internal value system (morals and ethics) are not in alignment with the needs of those who are suffering (in all walks of life).

 

I believe that even IF friends and family believe in protracted WD, they become tired from the length of time it takes for us to recover. Anger, resentment, impatience and desensitization start to build which inevitably ends up harming our emotional state further. Thus, I keep as much to myself as possible due to this realization (lol).

 

I think, at least for me, it's more painful when I realize that others DO know what I'm going through, to some degree (since they can visually SEE how I have deteriorated) but then choose to do nothing to assist me in whatever small ways they feel they can without seriously compromising their own quality of life.

 

I feel more at peace not remaining psychologically nor emotionally attached to these people any longer. Doing so allows me to release them, with love, understanding that our values never have been nor never will be in alignment.

 

I have peace releasing the fantasy of what I always wished my family would be. It's been a painful journey facing the truths and realities but it's been necessary for my spiritual growth and evolution. I no longer feel in conflict about something that I should have embraced long ago re: you cannot receive from others that which they do have and/or are unwilling to give.

 

Realizing this has now allowed me to move forward emotionally, releasing expectations that will never be met. I'm now on a path to forming my own family/community but only with those who have depth and compassion. I will suffer less in the future than I have in the past since, due to unawarness, I THOUGHT family was something everyone should be able to count on for love, protection etc., not to mention I invested my whole life into supporting these people who were needy narcissists.

 

I had more compassion for their needs than my own and thus, my losses are now the result of me, not paying attention, all along the way as to how how such people operate and the dynamics that were playing out within them for years upon years.

 

My unconscious and conscious desire to love my family, no matter what, has not been productive to anyone in the short nor long term (as I thought it would and should be).

 

As painful as it is to embrace the reality, it's necessary for me to grieve these losses and move on since, staying locked into these unrealistic expectations will result in creating more future pain for myself. I'm into reducing my pain not magnifying it by setting myself up for more replays of the past (lol).

 

 

It's been a painful and rude awakening to be abandoned on such a large scale by so many people simultaneously, especially when my only crime wss becoming ill for a prolonged period of time.

 

Anyway, bottom line: IF people are interested in supporting, understanding and loving you, they WILL DO SO, even If they may not fully understand what you are going through.

 

Punar

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Altostrata

Sorry, I really do not want to minimize the suffering of people who hit WD after adolescence (I am also one of them). I only sought some explanation for the hypothesis that the suicide risk is higher for people below 25 years....

 

There is no claim that the suicide risk is higher in young people. The FDA was looking only at arguments pertaining to antidepressant-induced suicidality in young people. The psychiatric industry has successfully blocked (so far) warnings about induced suicidality, violence, and self-destructive behavior in adults.

 

I don't think anyone here would disagree that whether one starts medication in childhood or adulthood, iatrogenic damage causes personal tragedy and destroys lives. Many of us have lost years of our lives, opportunities, careers, even families because of these drugs. Each individual story is a facet on the drug damage that is denied by medicine.

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Punarbhava

Sorry, I really do not want to minimize the suffering of people who hit WD after adolescence (I am also one of them). I only sought some explanation for the hypothesis that the suicide risk is higher for people below 25 years. I know too well that at any age WD can be atricious and having it at a later age has even an extra risk, you are responsible for earning an income which can be impossible during WD and probably triggered many of the SSRI related suicides. I escaped this scenario because I had financial backup while I am unable to work due to WD for more than 3 years now, but I realize that others can be less lucky in that sense.

CS I am really sorry for your suffering and your many lost years. WD is a destructive monster and we all must find a way to rebuild our lives on the ruins it has created...

 

Hey Claudius........

 

 

Please don't feel bad about expressing your thoughts. It's impossible to fully articulate ALL that one feels and believes in one post and I don't believe anyone perceived you as minimizing anyone else's experience and subsequent losses.

 

What we share, within a post, is a miniature representation of one thought but certainly is not representative of our whole life philosophy, nor representative of the totality of who we are as people.

 

I hope I'm wording this correctly. Okay, I'm getting lost in my own words and thoughts (lol) but I do hope you know what I'm trying to say.

 

This on-line communications really does create a lot of barriers since, one is not allowed to interject with questions and thus, clarifications cannot be made along the way to avoid misunderstandings or misintepretations etc.

 

 

I don't think any of us were the least bit offended by your post. Rather, we were just discussing how WE feel but that doesn't make YOUR thoughts wrong. Your post had some valid points IMHO.

 

 

And I wish to apologize to you for using the phrase "I disagree". I think that phrase can sometimes create unintended ill-effects. I feel bad that we may have unnecessarily upset you. So, please forgive my lack of eloquency when trying to express my thoughts.

 

 

I'm going to have to come up with a better phrase to utilize in the future.

 

 

Punar

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Altostrata

Now, back to the topic.

 

Have you tried to get your family to understand? What did you do, and how did they respond?

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Altostrata

(Back to the digression: Claudius and all, I stand corrected. There is a black box warning on ALL antidepressants sold in the U.S. about suicidality in adults as well as children.)

 

NOW back to the topic.

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