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Neuroplastic

"Please, believe me"

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Claudius

OK I won't take offense, and anybody has the right to disagree with me :)

For me the first 18 months or so were a hell and I still did not know it was the PAxil although I had a feeling that is was somehow related to the pills. When I finally found the website PP everything became clear to me. My mother had supported me all the time but did not know what to do, and when I gave here the articles of PP she believed me. And so do my employer and most of my friends, who know that I was not like this before and know mee qwell enough that I will not tell stories. BEsides, the articels of Healy, Glenmullen and Breggin talk for themselves.

Some of them I sent the article "The hell of Seroxat withdrawal": http://seroxatsecrets.wordpress.com/2008/01/05/the-hell-of-seroxat-withdrawal/ and this made surely some impression on them.

So I am lucky in that sense. But the doctors I visited still know nothing and do not want to learn anything. I am still deeply shocked by the complete ignorance, lack of interest and compassion and the total unwilliness of the doctors to educate themselves and help people to get savely off these drugs instead of lying, denying and polydrug innocent people. But that will count for all of us here...

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Phil

Hi, I apologise as I havent followed the discussion on here so far, I just wanted to say that to try and get my family to believe in my withdrawal, I showed them a newspaper clipping of a popstar who had withdrawn from Paxil (Duncan James from the boyband Blue).

 

I've kept it to show anyone who doesn't believe me, although, as it's from the Daily Mail they might be skeptical of it's truth (UK users will know what I mean, lol).

It was hard to gauge the reaction from my family since they don't like talking about such subjects.

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Altostrata

Interesting. Can you find that story online, Phil? If so, please post a pointer to it in our Media forum.

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Brandy

Is this it, Phil? panic-attacks-hooked-on-ADs

 

I was going to post a comment but it is closed to comments, unfortunately.

 

Edit by Brandy:

 

P.S. I forgot to mention I believe this article has been discussed on many other groups, but I don't know if he's elaborated on his withdrawal in any other interviews. I'll try to check. He uses the term seroxat.

Edited by Brandy

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angie007

What a lovely post Punar as always, this drug has taken the best part of

20years of my life also, we have all lost so much, but... we also can gain

our lives back and learn from this experience.

 

I think the only true way anyone will ever understand what we are all suffering

from without having to experience this through drug us is;=

 

For me to sit in my wd sick bed right now and make a helmet that has all these

horrible symptoms inside it, and when you wear the helmet you experience the symptoms

we continually live with 24/7 in a lot of cases.

 

See if your disbelieving families, doctors, psychiatrists etc would have the bottle

to even try this helmet on, let alone wear it for any length of time lol.

If only this were possible eh!!!!!!!!

Theres a few id like to super glue this helmet too hahaha

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Healing

That's a good one, Angie! :D

 

Helmet of withdrawal emoticon ==> :ph34r:

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Neuroplastic

Helmet of withdrawal emoticon ==> :ph34r:

How on earth did the software guys know about WD? Tell y'a. :blink:

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Sunny1008

I was searching for this topic because it is one of the most difficult aspects of the whole WD experience for me. I have to say that Punar pretty much hit the nail on the head with everything I was wanting to say, so DITTO what s/he said.

 

These are the points that I just have to get off my chest, and only you all will understand:

 

1. No one believes the magnitude of how sick you are because there are no physical signs, no broken bones, etc. It is blamed on the person's "original" condition.

2. You become so incapacitated that you can't even work or support yourself, which adds to the trauma. Where does a person go from there?

3. You go to the medical community for help, and they too do not believe you. You are given more drugs so you will just shut up and go away.

4. Your family members, IF they believe you, develop compassion fatigue because they are sick of being around someone who is sick and "dragging them down". Apparently, your illness is taking too long for their liking.

 

I'm sorry to sound so negative, but all of this is just so overwhelming. I couldn't even imagine anything being more difficult. It's as if your loved ones either want you completely well or want nothing to do with you! Whatever happened to taking care of each other in our times of need? I am sorry, but I am just disgusted by this whole thing, and how my family has reacted (or NOT reacted). It's an added trauma on top of all the horrific WD symptoms. It seems that as this whole ordeal is unfolding, more layers of trauma reveal themselves, which will take many years to overcome.

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Altostrata

This is true, sunny. It's very difficult dealing with an unrecognized iatrogenic condition.

 

However, the medical community is very gradually becoming aware of antidepressant withdrawal problems.

 

When we join together to support each other, we help each other persevere, and our voices are heard.

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alexjuice

I was searching for this topic because it is one of the most difficult aspects of the whole WD experience for me. I have to say that Punar pretty much hit the nail on the head with everything I was wanting to say, so DITTO what s/he said.

 

These are the points that I just have to get off my chest, and only you all will understand:

 

1. No one believes the magnitude of how sick you are because there are no physical signs, no broken bones, etc. It is blamed on the person's "original" condition.

2. You become so incapacitated that you can't even work or support yourself, which adds to the trauma. Where does a person go from there?

3. You go to the medical community for help, and they too do not believe you. You are given more drugs so you will just shut up and go away.

4. Your family members, IF they believe you, develop compassion fatigue because they are sick of being around someone who is sick and "dragging them down". Apparently, your illness is taking too long for their liking.

 

1. YES

2. YES

3. YES

4. YES

 

It's not negative to me. It is honest. It is what it is (I had a friend who preferred the construction, "It's an is.").

 

I think there are certain days that I am better able handle it, bur your list items are the facts of the case and are hard to cope with. I feel alone a lot, but I try to remember that I'm not alone. We have each other. It's enough for me to get by on until we have more to get by on... That said, it's really damn hard.

 

Just don't give up.

 

I've become a much stronger person due to the last 18 months... Ya know? For instance, for a long while I used to think it'd be easier to just be someone else or dead. I felt that I was in a no-win situation and used to dream of living someone else's normal life. I don't feel that way anymore. As time passed, and I started to get better in some areas, I thought of all the people that I knew and couldn't think of anyone that I'd rather be.

 

I'd rather be me in this nightmare -- I really feel like this situation is as psychologically torturous as anything any sci-fi writer could come up with -- than be anyone else, frankly. When I come out on the other side, there will be much savory living to do. That's why I want to be me, for that part. "Only if you have been in the deepest valley, can you ever know how magnificent it is to be on the highest mountain." (37)

 

Even if I never get any better, this is my challenge. I accept it... Life on life's terms. This is it.

 

And, as Alto mentioned, change will come. In the meantime one of the hardest things is that doctors don't help me much partly because they don't know how but primarily because they don't believe me in the first place. But doctors will come around, I think.

 

Some of my friends and family are not able to be helpful, and they make things worse even when trying to help. They don't mean to be mean. They are frsutrated and trying to encourage me but they just don't know. It makes it hard. They'll probably never get it... some of my relationships have turned pretty strained and will probably wither away due to this. It is sad, for sure.

 

I've learned to accept the possibility that a significant % of people may never be able to understand enough to believe. This makes me think of a remark by Louis Armstrong, "There's some folks, that, if they don't know, you can't tell 'em."

 

This is part of our particular burden, but it's also part of life.

 

It won't last forever... promise.

 

Hang in.

 

Alex.i

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Barbarannamated

I've been having a really rough time and, while lying in bed the other day, heard my husband,an MD, authorize a script for citalopram (he's a reviewer for WC insurance). He knows about W and the ways that the data has been manipulated for FDA approval. When I heard him authourize this, I mentally snapped. He denied Vicodin and 2 others, but OK'd citalopram. I laid there and got revved up -- bad, I know. Then I walked into other room and asked what the citalopram was for. "I don't know...depression. Psych is accepted (as part of claim, as if saying 'why not?')." He did say it was a refill.

 

I realize I'm not going to change him in a few short conversations (or long ones), but this did something to me I can't explain. My anxiety has skyrocked, I don't feel safe, I have no one. I don't know where to go. Most of my relatives are medicated and, of course, won't listen to me when there's a doctor in the house.

 

 

 

 

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cinephile

I realize I'm not going to change him in a few short conversations (or long ones), but this did something to me I can't explain. My anxiety has skyrocked, I don't feel safe, I have no one. I don't know where to go. Most of my relatives are medicated and, of course, won't listen to me when there's a doctor in the house.

You nailed it. All of a sudden, you realize the enormity of the situation and the deep denial the medical industry is in. You instantly think, "Jesus, how deep does this go? How far up does the corruption go? If this has been happening for decades, is there ANYONE left whom I can trust in medicine?"

 

Then all of a sudden you snap the pieces together once you truly "see" the medical field for what it is. It's like you've slipped into a parallel universe that only you and a select population know exists (that is, health care as it REALLY is in this country). It's only a matter of time before you get scared/paranoid. Anybody would feel that way in such a situation.

 

I liken it to the classic sci-fi film INVASION OF THE BODY SNATCHERS: you've had a hunch for a long time something is very wrong with the very fabric of society, and then one day you wake up and seemingly everyone but you and a select few are pod people.

 

The video below is to a clip from the 1978 version of that film (IMO, the best version of the film). It's a total spoiler for the film, but it sums up what I feel and what I think you feel when you describe your spooky reaction to your husband's refill of the Citalopram.

 

A quick background on the clip (**SPOILERS lol): the woman (Veronica Cartwright) is portrayed to be presumably the last human not overtaken by the aliens in the film. She is delighted to see a man (played by Donald Sutherland) whom she lost track of who was in her group of humans who were hunted by the aliens. She assumes he's still human and has miraculously survived the alien takeover, but...

 

It's a typically cynical conclusion for a '70s sci-fi film, but it's always haunted me for its perfect mixture of terror, heartbreak and betrayal. Amazing to me how the '70s were cynical as hell because society felt those in power (government mostly) couldn't be trusted, and now more and more people feel the same way once again! Except now, you can't even trust people in once-sacrosanct areas of society like medicine! It's chilling, and I know exactly how you feel, bar. You're not alone.

 

 

*I'll now go a step further and show you a scene from one of the finest American films ever made (and the best film on Vietnam, PERIOD): BORN ON THE FOURTH OF JULY. You must remember, Bar, that vets (ESPECIALLY Vietnam vets) know this parallel universe and sense of betrayal all too well. It still scalds them to this day. The film is the true story of Vietnam Vet Ron Kovic, who was as about as All-American boy as you could imagine, and he was chomping at the bit to follow in his dad's footsteps to be a decorated war veteran. Then he went to Vietnam and EVERYTHING changed. He was shot and paralyzed from the chest down. He came home in a wheelchair, and let's just say the US was not the US he remembered.

 

This is the famous scene where it hits Kovic (unforgettably played by Tom Cruise) like a ton of bricks that he's been lied to, and the whole government has been in on it. That basically he was a disposable pawn, and that all of a sudden everything he held dear instantly rings hollow and sounds/feels sinister, AND NO ONE HE CARES ABOUT -- INCLUDING HIS FAMILY -- SEEMS TO UNDERSTAND OR CARE HOW HE FEELS. Even the most trusted people in his life feel like traitors to him.

 

 

It is absolutely emotionally devastating. It holds nothing back. But that is precisely why it is so important. Truly, if people could just LOOK at darkness, whether it be the horrors of war (notice how the mother in the BORN ON THE FOURTH OF JULY scene can't admit to herself that American boys killed Vietnamese women and children) or the horrors of psychiatry (WHO could believe that young American men and women are in a very real way being experimented on by psychiatry and perhaps suffering for life because of it?), then they could see THE LIGHT. Denial and secrets keep people sick, PERIOD. Ask any incest or child abuse survivor about that. And this country has had a HUGE reality problem for a LONG time; we've become pathologically averse to even the tiniest sliver of pain that reality can throw our way. Just look at all the obesity, social media (facebook/twitter/email) that allows people to dodge emotional intimacy, pills that are supposed to make you happy (HELLO lol), credit/debt to buy things we can't afford (and DON'T NEED), an unsustainable economy that's basically just a Ponzi scheme, etc etc. And what happens? We lose our ability to own up to the truth, no matter how ugly, and address the problem. And the longer we avoid the problem, the worse it gets and the harder it is to fix. And we create Frankensteins like Kovic or young men and women suffering from something like PSSD (post-SSRI-sexual-dysfunction). **PS: The bit where Kovic speaks graphically about his sexual dysfunction is DEAD BANG accurate. I've read very similar words from young men who have lost their sexual function to SSRIs.

 

There is a reason why Nietzsche is my avatar pic. He is my favorite philosopher and one of my favorite human beings because he realized all this almost 150 years ago (largely about Germany, but also the West as a whole): people were getting pathologically soft and selling out the true richness of life and the infinite possibilities of humans as they are (with NOTHING ADDED, that means no pills!) by slavishly believing in the limitless progress science would bring, and that one day perhaps we'd know "pure" truth and have a heaven on earth. Nietzsche realized that the new faith in science was feeding the same urge that Christian faith was: a distaste for imperfect earthly moments (which is all us humans can ever know), and a sick will to instead put all our earthly stock in preparing for some "perfect" afterlife that may very well not even exist. The only difference was that with science, we fooled ourselves into thinking we could bring that heaven to earth. Ridiculous. Only Nietzsche was smart enough to know how sick it all was, and he was acutely aware, as Kovic is in the scene, that no one else realized this.

 

But what impresses me the most about Nietzsche is how he realized that artists have LOVE for humanity. They love humanity because they make our suffering beautiful and make it almost sacred: in the ecstacy of art, pain and pleasure is equally liberating and useful for experience and growth. They remind us that pain and suffering, even the most acute pain and suffering, is useful and instructive and can even be seen as beautiful under the right circumstances. We can appreciate Kovic's suffering and private horror through this new lens: all of a sudden his pain and suffering makes sense and is the ultimate test of Nietzsche's philosophy that any human can make any moment a great one if they are smart and courageous enough. And ultimately Ron Kovic did: he is now a political activist who has said his terrible experience in Vietnam awakened him to his true path: an activist for peace. Does he still have terrible moments of despair? Yes. But does he have great moments of triumph and joy? YES YES YES. And nobody can take that away from him, not even the corrupt government.

 

And this is how Nietzsche was. His life was plagued with health problems, including declining eye-sight that made him nearly blind towards the end of his life, and terrible multi-day long migraines that would give him extremely painful vomiting spells. Ultimately he went insane (most likely due to syphilis) and spent the last ten years (I think) in an asylum. BUT when he was still productive he saw his ailments as a way to test his philosophy and see if he could truly turn them to his advantage. He did. He wrote some of his best material WHILE he was suffering from spells of migraines. He went to the very brink of pain and suffering and still managed to write philosophy that remains eternally instructive and is a testament to humans at their most beautiful, their most powerful.

 

And that is why I think Nietzsche remains a cult philosopher of limited appeal. To fully understand him, you must have also gone to the brink and come out the wormhole and not have let it crush you but to embrace it and to ultimately embrace how absurd/pointless life is and see it as a blessing. Most people can't (WON'T) do that, and that most certainly includes doctors. I mention doctors because I think that is why many psychiatrists can't believe the horror stories of withdrawal/PSSD: they simply can't face the cataclysmic change of worldview they would engender and thus go to that brink and go THROUGH it. It's too painful, like for Kovic's mother in that scene.

 

So that is why I think art is more profound than science (and why Nietzsche is a badass lol). It affirms us AS WE ARE. I'm not saying tech/science isn't important (in fact, it could very well come to our rescue to disprove psychiatry's idiocy), but I just think it's severely overrated and not properly understood in this current "culture" of ours.

 

Wow, sorry to bring so much up, but your post struck a major chord! I hope this all makes sense :lol:

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cinephile

One more thing:

 

 

One more variation on the "now the blinders are off" theme: a clip from the 1988 scifi/horror film THEY LIVE. It's a fun movie about another alien takeover, but this time it's more subversive. Basically, the aliens have brainwashed humans through advertising and mass media. But one day, a drifter stumbles on a pair of sunglasses that miraculously allow him to literally "see through" all the BS and see what the aliens are REALLY telling humans to do. To this day I liken my moment of waking up to the hideous corruption in psychiatry/pharma as the day I "put the glasses on."

 

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compsports

""I realize I'm not going to change him in a few short conversations (or long ones), but this did something to me I can't explain. My anxiety has skyrocked, I don't feel safe, I have no one. I don't know where to go. Most of my relatives are medicated and, of course, won't listen to me when there's a doctor in the house. ""

 

Unfortunately Barb, doctors are the experts come heck or high water.

 

Not that this will make you feel any better but that is why it has been so hard to get media coverage of these issues in the past although this is changing. Doctors were considered pros who weren't to be questioned.

 

My situation is different but my family also generally believes in mainstream medicine come heck or high water. I don't even touch some of the topics like flu and H1N1 shots.

 

As far as I know, they haven't taken psych meds but I doubt they would listen to my concerns if they were to be offered them.

 

CS

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compsports

Hi Cinephile,

 

I can't stop thinking about your post even though I am having trouble writing some coherent thoughts. But something you said about the 70s struck me.

 

I had a relative who was a very ardent feminist was able to help get alot of things changed in the 70s although I don't think it involved psych issues. But ironically, those same feminists currently don't seem to take the abuse of psych patients very seriously, which is surprising since alot of women are effected. Gianna, on the Beyond Meds Blog, has talked about this.

 

http://beyondmeds.com/attn-liberalsfeminists/

 

It is like going against the "standard" operating procedure for mental illness is like being against apple pie.

 

I have thought about writing the National Organization for Women and stating that my relative who fought so hard for women's rights would be embarrassed at their hypocrisy that Gianna so wonderfully addresses. Even though she didn't address psych issues in her fight, she was horrified at what the meds were doing to me so I feel she would have if the opportunity had arisen. When I have more energy, I will.

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Barbarannamated

Cinephile,

 

This hits home in MANY personal ways. I used to think I was an 'out of the box' thinker, but realized over the last year+ that my box was oh-so-small! I know that all that has happened is no accident, but that doesn't make it any easier to come to terms with. It's far beyond psychiatry and medicine, which provokes anger/fear/anxiety/disbelief and, of course, the collapse of my paradigm. While many people see Sci-fi movies and TV as pure fiction or fantasy, I realize there is at least a grain of 'awareness' that they represent.

It's difficult to even think about. I'm coming from a 'hard science' background (now proven to be not-so-hard) and trying to integrate what I've seen referred to as 'woo woo matters' here. The professionals I've talked to are either at one end or the other of the spectrum and I'm dangling somewhere in between.

 

I hope this makes sense to you! I'll try to expand on this later. In the meantime...do ya know where can I get a pair of those glasses? B)

 

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