Dr. Joseph Glenmullen's withdrawal symptom checklist

[Marta]

• wake up in total anxiety/terror

can't cry, laugh, scream, love....just a zombie wit hell inside, trying to do things

go to bed with total anxiety/terror

I want my old life back!!!!

[KarenB]

Instead of printing a new symptom page to fill out each day, here's what I do: 

 

I use a large, lined book (like a school book).  I typed up then printed all the symptoms listed in the symptom-checklists, plus other ones personal to me.  I glue this in a column down the left side of the page. 

 

Then I rule it up so I can record symptoms daily for one month, by giving each symptom I've had a score out of 9.  1=barely felt it, 9=awful.  I fill it in each morning (to record the night's symptoms) and each evening (to record the day's symptoms).  Then I add up my score each day and write it at the bottom of that day's column, and under that I write one of these words:  Awful, bad, blah, ok, good, great.  Then I make a note of anything that may have affected the score e.g. getting my period, stress due to outside circumstances, too much exercise. 

 

At the end of each month I transfer each daily score to a line graph. 

 

I've found it really valuable for working out how I'm going, what I can expect, and whether I really have been settled long enough to try another dose-reduction.  Seeing the up-down line can be very reassuring as it's a clear picture that things do get worse and better again.  Trends are easier to spot.

 

I also like being able to see a whole month at a glance. 

[ChessieCat]

Hi Everyone,

 

Finally got around to converting the Dr Joseph Glenmullen's Excel Symptoms List to a document for printing off.  I also made up a blank version for people to fill in their own and also added some additional lines to the Excel version (and corrected a typo).

 

So attached here is monthly:

 

PDF - with Dr Glenmullen's Symptoms (will print out on 2 x A4 sheets)

 

PDF - blank version of the above (will print on 1 x A4 sheet)

 

Please see next post for other Excel version (slightly revised)

 

CC

Dr Glenmullens Symptom List for Month to Print.pdf

Blank Symptom List for Month to Print.pdf

[ChessieCat]

Excel version - Dr Glenmullen's Symptoms List for completing on the computer (slightly revised version of the original I did last year - I added some blank lines and corrected a typo)

 

 

CC

Dr Glenmullens Symptom List for Month.xls

[ingridphoenix]

 

This complete absence of motivation I experienced last fall. For me it wasn't part of depression. It wasn't like, I dont "feel" like doing... Whatever. It was not feeling at all. Numb. Intellectually I knew I should do it, but that was the extent of it. Even eating and showering. It wasn't that I didn't feel like doing them. I just didn't feel anything about them and didnt do them. Does that sound familiar to anyone?

Sounds totally familiar for me. I had never in my life problems motivating myself. Just now. I know I should submit sick certs to work, send the bills to the health insurance, take care of my disability process. But I don't care. I just can't get myself to do it. It doesn't even phase me that my bank account will be empty pretty soon. I hope this will subside soon, otherwise I will be bankrupt.

 

Been like this for years ON the meds. Now as I am taking less, I am getting more motivated. very odd. stopping the drugs was my last resort to get over this NotDoingAnythingEver.....

I did not pay bills, and dishes sat for 3 months - amazing science projects, purple and lilac mold anyone?

[ingridphoenix]

 

 

I read the book "Coming off Antidepressants" by Joseph Glenmullen, and I always recommend it to people thinking of tapering, that book was my big lightbulb moment when I suddenly understood what was going on and that I was experiencing withdrawals, it is still available on Amazon and I can really recommend it.

That is an expensive book! I was determined and found 1 copy at abebooks.com

amazon was spendy - lol - but you so highly recommended it, I bought it. Thanks!

 

 

ingridphoenix I am in the UK so I have a feeling it was cheap and readily available here at the time, no idea why it's so expensive in the US.

 

I think it is out of print now - so it is rare. I got my copy - it was shipped - so thanks again for recommending it! Can't wait to read it.

[Altostrata]

In the U.S., the book is called The Antidepressant Solution.

[btdt]

I got it at the library after reading his first book oddly enough both of the books were falling apart by the time I got them I sure hope the library bought some new copies. I started to wake up reading the first one I was already off the drugs but reading what he was seeing in his patients when they were on the drugs... I could see myself as I had many of the things his patients had... twitching eyes for one that one sticks in my mind... 

 

Somebody has suggested he be the person to do the needed research.

[btdt]

I just searched his books...

The Pornographer's Grief: And Other Tales of Human Sexuality Paperback – March, 1994

A Harvard psychiatrist and expert on human sexuality shares some of his most fascinating cases, covering sexual behavior, drugs, trauma, and religious repression.

 

 

Prozac Backlash: Overcoming the Dangers of Prozac, Zoloft, Paxil, and Other Antidepressants with Safe, Effective Alternatives Paperback – Apr 17 2001

Dr. Joseph Glenmullen, a psychiatrist who has a private practice and also works for Harvard University Health Services, sees this antidepressant mania as dangerous, even reckless. He notes that these drugs can have severe side effects, including uncontrollable facial and body tics, which could be signs of severe and permanent brain damage. About 50 percent of patients suffer often-debilitating withdrawal symptoms from them, and about 60 percent end up with sexual dysfunction. And Prozac may make a small number of people homicidal or suicidal, or both.

 

 

Sexual Mysteries: Tales of PsychotherapyPaperback – Apr 20 2000 same as the other book 

by Joseph Glenmullen (Author), Robert Coles M.D. (Foreword)

I read this book under its previous title, "The Pornographer's Grief," and am glad to see it has been re-published under the title "Sexual Mysteries" (a better description of its contents). This is a charming book of insightful stories from the author's general psychiatric practice. Each of the chapters discusses a different patient in dialogue form. While these are true stories of therapy, they are so well written they read like good fiction. They provide an unusual opportunity to look in on someone else's life and their problems, how those problems play out in their sexual life (or how they are manifested in sexual symptoms), and how the problems are solved through therapy

The Antidepressant Solution: A Step-by-Step Guide to Safely Overcoming Antidepressant Withdrawal, Dependence, and "Addiction"

check this review note the author

 

Alan Stone, M.D., Professor of Psychiatry and Law, Harvard University, former President of the American Psychiatric Association Dr. Glenmullen has assembled from every possible source the clinical and scientific evidence that there are costs as well as benefits to Prozac and related drugs. He warns us that no one really knows the long-term consequences of these chemicals on the brain.

[btdt]

see Glenmullen's videos

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/11324-dr-joseph-glenmullens-testimony-about-antidepressants/

[JanCarol]

This is not Glenmullen, it is a list of Post SSRI withdrawal symptoms from Fava:

 

http://hulpgids.nl/assets/files/pdf/DESS.pdf

 

compare/contrast.  Maybe one is easier to use than the other, maybe someone will prefer this one.

 

Lots of overlap, but it's good to get confirmation that Glenmullen is not the only one who has a withdrawal symptoms list!

[ChessieCat]

That's a really well laid out comparison chart.  Great find!  I will try and combine Glenmullen's symptoms with Fava's symptoms in a comparison chart.

[ChessieCat]

I was curious as to what differences there are between the two lists:

 

Fava omits:  Suicidal thoughts; Suicide attempts; Self-harm; Homicidal thoughts or urges; Manic-like reactions; Impulsivity; Electric zap-like sensations in brain; Electric shock-like sensations in body; Chest pain; Hung over or waterlogged feeling: Change in appetite

 

Fava:  Unusual sensitivity to sound     Glenmullen:  Auditory hallucinations

 

I find the majority of the omissions alarming (the first 8 specifically) considering that this is a Discontinuation-Emergent Signs and Symptoms list and the copyright is for the Massachusetts General Hospital.

[nz11]

Well spotted cc

I noticed Favas was about 43 symptoms and i think Glenmullen has 58 but i didnt look into what was omitted.

Gee that is disappointing to ommit all those very common things....ok lets not make it a sticky ...i'll  take that back

 

This is odd because one of my favourite quotes is this

 

Fava,  2006 published a paper citing further withdrawal symptoms, such as "agitation, anxiety, akathesia, panic attacks, irritability, aggressiveness, worsening of mood, dysphoria, crying spells or mood lability, overactivity or hyperactivity, depersonalization, decreased concentration, slowed thinking, confusion and memory/concentration difficulties." To the authors, these symptoms and their widespread recurrence looked increasingly like a drug-related syndrome.

 

I know there is  more than one Fava.

But if they are the same then surely to mention akathisia is to mention SI

[ChessieCat]

Just bumping this to let members know about the computer and printable symptom lists.  Each sheet is set up for 1 month using the symptoms from:  Dr Joseph Glenmullen's Withdrawal Symptoms

 

At the bottom left of each list is rating code for symptoms:  SEVERITY SCORE FOR DAY:  None=0;  Mild=1-3; Moderate=4-7; Severe=8-10

 

PDF Monthly List of Dr Glenmullen's Symptoms to Print

 

PDF Monthly List BLANK to Print
 
Excel Spreadsheet Monthly format of Dr Glenmullen's Symptoms to use on the computer   SUGGESTION:  Keep the first sheet as master blank sheet and copy it to a new sheet each month.

[Danalee13]

On 6/8/2012 at 3:02 AM, dalsaan said:

ADMIN NOTE www.drglenmullen.com seems to be closed.

 

The checklist is here (PDF will download) glenmullen_symptoms_AS Appendix 1.pdf
 
Our esteemed member ChessieCat has provided these resources:

PDF Monthly List of Dr Glenmullen's Symptoms to Print & PDF Monthly List BLANK to Print
 
Excel Spreadsheet Monthly format of Dr Glenmullen's Symptoms to use on the computer
 
Related topics:

Rate symptoms daily to track patterns and progress

What symptoms should I expect while tapering?

Papers on diagnosis of antidepressant withdrawal syndrome

Guides to tapering off psychiatric medication

---

Hi Glenmullen has provided a checklist of withdrawal symptoms available here [see below] I found this helped me put 2 and 2 together in terms of the diverse range of symptoms I was experiencing (some obvious ones I had identified as withdrawals, others I thought were an unfortunate coincidence : ). The checklist got me on the right page as such. Its also helpful to track changes with dose reductions and to take to Dr's appts. I have printed a heap of them odd and have them in a folder. It can help gps understand and accept what you are saying It may not be perfect but I think it helps to get your head around it and short circuits reading a lot of stuff Don't know if you want to put this with the intro stuff or start a thread for it or ... And I don't know how to make it a link as such Dalsaan

 

 

 

@manymoretodays I shall track with this. Thank you so much. 

[Danalee13]

On 2/11/2016 at 5:50 PM, ChessieCat said:

Excel version - Dr Glenmullen's Symptoms List for completing on the computer (slightly revised version of the original I did last year - I added some blank lines and corrected a typo)

 

 

CC

Dr Glenmullens Symptom List for Month.xls 17.5 kB · 999 downloads

Thank you for this!

[Felisbela]

On 6/8/2012 at 6:54 PM, Altostrata said:

Thanks, dalsaan. A valuable addition to our Tapering section.

 

I thought Joseph Glenmullen's book The Antidepressant Solution was excellent. His tapering schedule is moderate, but he specifies over and over that it should be slowed if needed for the individual.

 

It's also a good book to give to your doctor. Joseph Glenmullen is a Harvard psychiatrist. The book has a complete citation section.

I have brought the book over the internet, it sounds really good, maybe I might give a copy to my doctor.

[ChickenBurrito]

This topic is blowing my mind. I just ordered a copy of the book, and can't wait to read it.

 

I am having symptoms from both columns of the checklist. 

 

What I just realized, thanks Nikki, is that I am having numbness issues in my both hands.....from having my elbows bent while sleeping. Not a problem I have had often in the past, though I do have some cartel tunnel issues in my right wrist. Symptoms continue to evolve, or atleast become acknowledged.

 

My worst symptoms to date are anxiety, sudden rage and self harm. Awful. These symptoms were less frequent before I began taking Citalopram; now they are a daily, lurking menace.

 

Thanks to all, CB

[manymoretodays]

  

15 hours ago, CyanideFlower said:

Titled:  App for tracking symptoms

 

Hi everyone  I tried looking up apps that can help me track symptoms. I couldn't find anything that fits my needs - they were either unusable, or they were actually for tracking mood...

Is anyone using apps to track their symptoms?

 

For me, the best thing would be being able to enter a symptom (from a list is OK too) and be able to "check" when it's happening, at least. Even better if you can add how bad the symptom is (numbers or words).

 

Thanks a lot and stay safe,

CF.

 

(sorry if it's the wrong forum for such things)

 

Edited April 8 by manymoretodays
quoted here for CyanideFlower

[Lzieb]

I hope I am posting in the right spot. I have had a symptom since yesterday afternoon and it won't go away. It feels like my body is shaking inside. Like trembling or chills but I'm not cold so I am imagining trembling. It has kept me up tonight. Hard to sleep with it... Anyone have this...is there a way to manage it for sleep- meditation or something?

[ChickenBurrito]

I have had the vibrational feeling in my legs off and on for the last ten months or so. The symptom is typically worse when I am anxious about something. Often I don't know what I am anxious about, but sharing it out loud to my wife is really helpful. I have to say out loud that I am feeling anxious, my body is tense, I am afraid and so on. Acknowledging my anxiety often serves as a reset of the overwhelming feelings I am experiencing and nine times out of ten it helps. Also, I have taken to telling myself that it is o.k. if my legs are vibrating/trembling and that it is o.k. to be anxious.

 

Another thing I have done is 4-8 breathing. Breathe in for four seconds and then slowly breathe out for 8 seconds. The exact timing isn't important; inhale slowly and then exhale for two to three times longer than the inhale.  Adjust the length and speed of breaths if you get light headed. I do like four or five cycles normally, but will often do more when I am feeling anxious.

 

Sleep hygiene helps. Establish a routine at bed time and stick to it. Dim the lights for a half hour or so before you want to go to sleep. Eliminate all screen time. Read something other than news or current events with a red light. 

 

I use exercise just about every day to help fatigue my legs just a bit. Not too much, though.

 

I have also been taking Benadryl just before bed time to put the tiredness just a bit over the top, which is a bonus now since it's hay fever season.

 

Stretching and massaging my legs before my bedtime routine has also helped once or twice in the past.

 

I hope this helps, CB 

 

Citalopram: 40mg from July, 2007 to May, 2019.

                     Tapered down to 5mg between May, 2019 and August, 2019.

                     20 mg currently.

 

Mirtazapine: 30mg since October, 2019.

 

Melatonin: 6mg since January 2020.

 

Magnesium glycinate: 120mg since January, 2020.

[Lzieb]

Thank you @ChickenBurrito. I don't think Benadryl would be a wise decision for me. I tried D3 yesterday and it set my system in distress

 

May I ask how you manage the pain with this? It's intense today. Head pressure, fire and overall pain. Happened after the shaking last night. Unbearable. Thx

 

 

[ChickenBurrito]

That sounds rough. I have nothing for you. Sorry.

[Gridley]

On 4/27/2020 at 10:32 AM, Lzieb said:

May I ask how you manage the pain with this?

 

This link is about managing pain.  I hope it helps.

 

Non-drug techniques for dealing with body pain