freeaway: adrenaline rush and withdrawal?

[freeaway]

I do NOT wish to take anything else.

I should stay with Pristiq 50mg for next month and I will order 45mg and lower 10% so on. 

Is that a better idea?

 

Thank you for your help. 

 

 

[Shep]

21 hours ago, freeaway said:

So I spoken to the doctor and he said pristiq is very hard to come off since it's short life in our system and he recommended using Paxil as a bridge to help come off the pristiq.

After pristiq is out then come off Paxil.

 

Paxil also has a short half-life.  As listed in the thread Tips for Tapering off Paxil -  "The half-life of regular paroxetine is estimated at about 20 hours, while paroxetine CR’s half-life is 15 to 20 hours — there’s not much difference." While that's longer than Pristiq's half-life, you might still experience interdose withdrawal on it. 

 

Are you sure your doctor recommended Paxil and not Prozac? 

[freeaway]

Yes, he did. 

And according to what I'm reading Paxil is terrible to come off as well. The doctor I spoke to has 40 years of experience. 

 

I saw the zoom conference and I think it is very true our medical doctors are not trained properly. 

 

I'm truly hoping 10% reduction method will be much smoother or easier to handle than how I went down too fast by 50%. 

 

I have failed but getting back up again going to do this thr right way as I learned from this website and staff.

 

Current: 50mg - month later to 45mg. 

How does that sound? Or better idea? 

[Altostrata]

On 1/15/2021 at 5:39 AM, freeaway said:

Thank you both @Shep @Altostrata for your precious time again. 

 

I started feel little better with than before panicky feeling and severe nervousness has been decreased.

 

So I spoken to the doctor and he said pristiq is very hard to come off since it's short life in our system and he recommended using Paxil as a bridge to help come off the pristiq.

After pristiq is out then come off Paxil.

I'm scared to try any other meds and not sure what will happen.

 

Any suggestions? Or recommendations?

 

 

Absolutely not Paxil! The bridge off Pristiq is its sibling venlafaxine (Effexor). See Tips for tapering off desvenlafaxine (Pristiq)

[freeaway]

@Shep @Altostrata

Yesterday I had multiple panic attacks.

One at 12:30 before lunch and other ones while going to bed.

I see that before I get these adrenaline attacks I get this jittery sensation all over my body and then I get these attacks. 

 

I have been back on 50mg since last Wednesday. 

 

Can anyone help me deal with the panic attacks that arises. 

 

 

[Shep]

On 1/14/2021 at 7:20 AM, Shep said:

Since you haven't been on 50 mg since last September (4 months ago), going back up to 50 mg is too high an increase. 

 

Please note this from the first page of your thread. 

 

21 hours ago, freeaway said:

I have been back on 50mg since last Wednesday. 

 

Please update your signature to reflect this change. 

 

Account Settings - Create or Update Your Signature

 

21 hours ago, freeaway said:

Can anyone help me deal with the panic attacks that arises. 

 

 

Are the panic attacks worse now then when you were on 25 mg? These links may help, but if you're getting panic attacks from too high a dose of Pristiq, you may need to reduce the dose. 

 

Sudden fear, terror, panic, anxiety, or sensory overload from withdrawal

 

How to Recover from Anxiety - Dr Claire Weekes

[freeaway]

Hi, @Shep 

My panic attacks are not worst than 25mg. But I was wondering why I was having them even after going back up to 50mg. But then again even while I was on this pristiq 100mg 75mg or 50mg I still had panic attacks.

So the medication was helpless and that is why also wanted to get off.

When I told the doctor I'm still having panic attacks he wanted to add Xanax. 

Plus switch to another med.

 

I see that there is no real answer to my panic attacks and this medication.

 

My prayers to all the individuals suffering from the meds 🙏

 

[Shep]

8 minutes ago, freeaway said:

My panic attacks are not worst than 25mg. But I was wondering why I was having them even after going back up to 50mg. But then again even while I was on this pristiq 100mg 75mg or 50mg I still had panic attacks.

 

I re-read the first part of your intro and noticed this:

 

On 12/21/2020 at 3:10 PM, freeaway said:

The reason how I switched to different med was when I asked my doctor I wanted to come off the celexa after 10 years since I was getting better he told me to reduce the typical way by cutting my dosage 40mg to 20mg.

And after that I started having panic attacks, which I know now it is actually or could be withdrawal reaction.

 

Have you been having panic attacks since you reduced the Celexa in 2017? Any changes in the intensity since then that you've noticed? 

[freeaway]

Yes, I think it was definitely when I started lowering the medicine where I started having these multiple adrenaline attacks.

Which never stopped since then. But not even the doctors said it was due to changes of the dosage more of something wrong with me alone.

Until now I never knew reducing medicine in such high dosage can cause severe withdrawal symptoms. Wish I have known it back then how critical it was to be tapering it lower dosage. Now I am dealing with so much more.

I don't know what to do. I know I am reducing my Pristiq but I'm so scared of what outcome there will be or if I will be stuck with these attacks forever.

 

 

[Altostrata]

What are these panic attacks like? Have they gotten worse since you increased to 50mg again?

 

How long have you been taking 50mg this time? Have you seen any benefit from it?

 

Please keep daily notes of times of day you take your drugs, their dosages, and your symptoms throughout the day. Post 24 hours of notes at a time in this topic, in a simple list format with time of day on the left and notation (symptom or drug and dosage) on the right. This can show if your symptoms are adverse effects from one of your drugs.

[freeaway]

Hi, thank you for your reply.

 

I have been back on 50mg for exactly 7 days now. Intensity of the panic attacks is less than while I was on 25mg.

 

While I was on 25mg I was feeling much more higher level of anxiety and nervousness. Also pins and needle sensation all over my body.

 

After being on 50mg I still do feel anxious through out the day but less intensity. 

 

My panic attack symptoms is sudden adrenaline rush and fear emotion.

 

 

[freeaway]

I remembered having two panic attacks when I was 21 years old and once 27 years old. But it was never recurrent.

 

Once I reduced my Celexa 2017, panic attacks never went away. It kept getting worst and I would have it everyday.

It was terrifying time of my life.

 

After searching and searching I some how ended up getting Pristiq but panic attacks and anxiety never stopped.

 

I even got genetic test done that shows what medication is supposed to work or has a risk of adverse effect and Pristiq was "supposed" to work not the SSRI.

But it's not true at all, neither one worked.

 

Now I'm confused if I'm having these attacks from my daily life stress or is it induced by medication.

[Altostrata]

3 hours ago, freeaway said:

My panic attack symptoms is sudden adrenaline rush and fear emotion.

 

Are there any triggers for these sensations? Do they start when you think of something in particular, or do they come out of the blue?

 

Do you ever accidentally skip taking your dose of Pristiq, or do you take it on an irregular schedule?

[Shep]

How is your diet, freeaway? Are you eating small healthy meals or snacks throughout the day to prevent any drops in low blood sugar due to withdrawal? Are you staying well hydrated throughout the day? 

 

I now we're bombarding you with questions, but all of these can factor into the lead-up to panic attacks. 

[freeaway]

I do stay hydrated throughout the day, plus taking healthy supplements.

Cut out sugar and not eating so much gluten. 

 

I think I should start exercising.

I do work in a medical field and it is very overwhelming. Exhausting also, plus with this covid and 2nd dosage vaccine I am about to get next week scares me.

 

So, my panic trigger is the medication, the moment I lay down on my bed or pretty much all day I am thinking how is my brain damaged or my adrenal gland other organs. And this constant sensation and anxiety that I have to go through for who knows how long.

 

Life just feel so hopeless and scary.

 

All I read and see it suffering of all the people who are going off or came off even after years.

 

I'm so sorry I'm not trying to sound so dreadful but the reality I read and hear is heart breaking.

 

@Shep how do you go on from all this?

 

 

[freeaway]

Oh now I'm having burning sensation and pain all over my body.

More like a nerve pain.

 

Am I supposed to go to hospital now? 

 

[Shep]

Freeaway, did you have a lot of muscle tightness prior to the burning pain? If so, you may find some gentle yoga or stretching to be helpful.

 

For more ways to help, please see:

 

Non-drug techniques for dealing with body pain

 

23 hours ago, freeaway said:

So, my panic trigger is the medication, the moment I lay down on my bed or pretty much all day I am thinking how is my brain damaged or my adrenal gland other organs. And this constant sensation and anxiety that I have to go through for who knows how long.

 

Is it the drug that's triggering this or the thoughts about the drug? If it's your thinking that's triggering this, please see:

 

Dealing With Emotional Spirals

 

A technique to change your thoughts quickly is here:

 

"Change the channel" -- dealing with cognitive symptoms

 

[freeaway]

Thank you again, I really needed some information like you tagged.

 

Thank you.

[brassmonkey]

I wrote this in a response to your PM, but wanted to post it here also:

 

Going through WD from psych drugs is one of the hardest things a person will do in their life. The Stress, anxiety and physical exertion caused by the symptoms will tax anyone to their limit. I have no control over it, but I have to live.

 

Trying to live through the COVID pandemic  will be one of the hardest things most people will every do in their lives. Will I catch the disease if I go shopping so I can eat. If I catch it will I live through it. How painful will it be. I have no control over it, but I have to live.

 

Being a medical worker during the time of COVID will be one of the hardest things a person will ever do in their life. I can't even imagine the thoughts and feeling that go through their minds on an hourly basis. They have very little control over it, but they have to live so others can recover and live too.

 

I think there may be a little stress in your life right now. (sarcastic understatement, not meant to be insulting). Your body is trying to cope as best as it can with a horrible situation. Any one of these three situations can crush a person and making changes in the way the WD is handled can have heavy repercussions through out the other two.

 

Over the past several months you have made a number of very large changes in some very powerful medications. This is causing waves of symptoms that will change from hour to hour, day to day. The actual size of the dose you are taking is a refinement to the process, what is needed is stability so your body can sort things out and cope as best as it can. Another large change in dose will just cause more problems, so I would stay put and let your body figure things out for itself. This will be a slow process that will take many months and will be very uncomfortable at times.  But the symptoms you feel are just your body trying to heal and will fade with time.

 

Attitude and acceptance are the key to surviving all three of the situations above. The symptoms, situations and stress are all going to be there. It is how you allow them to affect you and your outlook that will make the difference. There is very little about them that we can really control, however we can control our reaction to them. The more we fear them the more power they have over us, the more we accept the situations and feelings the less power they have and the more they will fade into the background as we get on with what ever we have to do. It can be a lot of work, frustrating and exhausting, but with practice it does help. Do a site search on "coping strategies" and you will find a lot ideas on things that will help.

 

I will also post this on your intro thread so you will have it there for reference.

[freeaway]

Hi everyone, I am now doing 45mg and doing somewhat ok.

I have been practicing meditation once in the morning and once before bed along with diaphragmic breathing. 

 

My withdrawal symptoms has gotten lot easier to deal with and my mood is quite stable.

I struggle with high cortisol and anxiety but not severe as before.

Also I did receive both dosages of Covid vaccine and made it through with no struggle. 😃

 

What I wanted ask was, my new psychiatrist who was part of the zoom video meeting from mad in America Dr.Gupta is working with me on tapering off. She is well aware of the dangers and all the issues that surrounds fast tapering.

I am currently on 45mg of Pristiq and and I'll be starting my 40mg 10% decrease starting next week.

Dr.Gupta has recommended/suggest I go down 5mg every month until I reach 25mg and then use 10% decrease.

 

I wish to do 10% from 45mg until 0mg. It will take me about 3 years. 

But I am confused with what the doctor suggest.

Any advice? or recommendation? 

 

Thank you and have a nice day! 

 

[ChessieCat]

7 hours ago, freeaway said:

Also I did receive both dosages of Covid vaccine and made it through with no struggle. 😃

 

Please post in the following topic stating what type of vaccine you received and the time between doses.  If you had any reactions please include those and how long they lasted.  Thank you.

 

coronavirus-covid19-and-psychiatric-drug-tapering-withdrawal-covid19-vaccine

[ChessieCat]

Personally I do not think that it worth trying to taper faster than SA's recommended tapering method which is a hyerbolic taper, making the 10% (or less) reduction from the current dose.

 

Some members try to go faster and end up taking longer to get off than if they had gone at a slower rate.  Some have ended up destabilised and taken a long time to stabilise again, some never stabilise completely and some have ended up on an additional drug which then has to be tapered.  Some end up on a different drug and end up experiencing withdrawal symptoms from the first drug and / or side effects / adverse reactions from the second drug.  Because they have changed / introduced a new drug it can be very difficult to work out what is causing any issues that might arise.

 

Check out the graphs in this topic at the bottom of Post #1 and also the drug graphs for the studies:.  You will see that the drug graphs are similar to the hyperbolic taper curve.

 

Why taper paper: dose-occupancy curves

 

I just wrote a long post to another member so I have edited as needed and posted it below:

 

I suggest that you taper carefully by listening to your symptoms and not the calendar and do not reduce when you are experiencing withdrawal symptoms but holding for longer as needed, eg additional stress, sickness, travel, then there should be no reason to take an additional drug.  If you are getting more than mild withdrawal symptoms it means that you are tapering too quickly and the solution is to reduce by less and / or hold for longer.

 

And do not rely on updosing as a back up.  It is better to go slowly and steadily enough so that you do not need to updose than to yo-yo your dosing, because it's effect is cumulative.  At the start of my taper proper I had to decide about whether to updose a few times.  The question I asked myself was:  if this persists for a few weeks can I put up with it?  If the answer was no, then I updosed by a very small amount, not back to the previous dose.  If the answer was yes, then I held for an additional week or two or possibly longer.

 

Remember it is not a race.  The idea is to get off the drug with minimal discomfort so that we can live our life as normally as possible during the taper.  Any reduction is going in the right direction and any reduction of the amount of drug we take is reduction our drug burden.  We will get off eventually.  It will take longer than we would like it to.  I know for me it is taking a lot longer.  I will be 64 when I get off completely.  I was hoping to be off by 60 years.  But after a while I got used to tapering and it became part of my life and just went on in the background.  Every now and then I would get frustrated and think about stopping but then common sense and being aware of the bad experiences of other SA members who have stopped too high and/or too soon as well as some TLC from other members and I'd go back to trudging along patiently.

[ChessieCat]

7 hours ago, freeaway said:

Dr.Gupta has recommended/suggest I go down 5mg every month until I reach 25mg and then use 10% decrease.

 

I wish to do 10% from 45mg until 0mg. It will take me about 3 years. 

But I am confused with what the doctor suggest.

 

The thing with this is that you would not know if going down by a set amount would cause withdrawal symptoms.  Withdrawal symptoms are a sign that your brain is not happy.  The drug has been taken away too quickly and the result is withdrawal symptoms because the brain is trying to regain homeostasis.

 

It may work out okay for some people, it may not be okay for other people.  But you do not know which group you are in except by trying it and once you get more than mild withdrawal symptoms then it could take a long time before you can recommence tapering and during that time you might feel awful.  I do not want to take that risk.  It is a gamble but it is not money that is being bet it is quality of life.  In a nutshell what I wrote in my post above:  it is better to go as slow as needed than to risk going too fast.

[freeaway]

Thank you @ChessieCat! 😊

I'm so grateful for your advice.

 

I will definitely take it slow and easy without jumping like that. 

 

My biggest fear is that even when I'm down to zero there is no guarantee what I'll go through after. That devastates me. 

 

 

[ChessieCat]

Brassmonkey did a careful long taper off Paxil.  He was able to continue working throughout his taper. 

 

It Doesn’t end at “0” but because the drug has been taken away slowly, each time a reduction has been made with a hold afterwards the brain adapts as it goes so there is unlikely to be a big surge in withdrawal symptoms after stopping, provided that the dose is very low and a person does not keep tapering whilst experiencing withdrawal symptoms (and the person takes care of themselves; there will still be the need to look after ourselves in the years after stopping a slow taper).  It is called withdrawal normal or WDnormal.

 

Here is the link to Brassmonkey's success story.  The link to his Introduction topic is in Post #1:

 

tao-of-the-brassmonkey

 

See also:

 

When to end the taper and jump to zero?

Experiences after tapering to zero

[freeaway]

This gives me hope and peace.

I can't thank you enough @ChessieCat

 

❤❤❤❤🧡🧡🧡

 

[freeaway]

Hey @ChessieCat, I just saw your website and it was very touching it was well informed and well organized information on your tapering.

 

I had a question, as you are tapering down has your symptoms tend to get any stronger or harder even at 10% reduction rate?

Since I'm at 40mg and you are down to 0.75mg, I wanted to know if it gets smoother?

I know everyone is different but only person I know is you who is on Pristiq.

 

How did you or what method did you use to cope with sudden tense anxiety? or panic? 

 

I am definitely coming down on 10% rate and it has drastically cut down on my symptoms. 

No or rarely any brain zaps or those crazy adrenaline rush/ attack or strong heart pounding or even sick feeling after 10% reduction.

 

But, only thing that I am really dealing is these pins and needle or nerve pain and anxiety/panic sensation in the morning especially due to my high cortisol. 

I noticed that I had these symptoms for about a 2 weeks after my dosages are dropped and it start to feel better until my next drop.

I did start to use organic ashgawanda 300 morning and 300 (1 hour before my medication) since that's when my body start to go through some tough sensation and it has helped.

 

I just started using neurofeedback and I will keep posted as I go with this. 

 

It was so good to hear your happy and feeling better than what it used to be.  ^_^

 

 

 

 

 

[ChessieCat]

During the majority of my taper I have only experienced mild withdrawal symptoms.  I am now down to 0.365mg.

 

From your signature it looks like you have been making large decreases throughout your taper and also a large increase.  And you say you are now down to 40mg so from 50mg to 40mg is a 20% reduction, unless you did another reduction in between.

 

Except for the very start of my taper when I went from 100mg to 50mg then up to 75mg and then started 10% tapering about  2 months later and then had to make a small updose because of bad withdrawal symptoms (I was trying to get my dose down quickly due to mild serotonin syndrome), I have followed SA's tapering protocol and only tapered by 10% of less for the majority of my reductions.  There may have been a couple of almost 11% reductions which was before I realised that I could make liquid from the contents of a compounded Pristiq capsule (see my Intro and the Tips for Tapering Pristiq topic).

 

You have also added in ashgawanda, which I am assuming you started because of withdrawal symptoms.  It probably would have been better to make a SMALL updose of Pristiq instead of adding in a supplement.

 

I have documented my taper in my Introduction topic and I have also made a lot of posts about how I get my doses so you can check those out if you want more information.

 

Up until recently I was taking fish oil and magnesium.  I stopped the fish oil and am now only taking magnesium (which helps my anxiety - proven by stopping it several times and restarting it), a multivitamin, B12, folate, D3, iron and a blood pressure tablet.

 

I also use various non drug coping skills.

[freeaway]

Thank you for your reply. 

Yes, I did go from 50 to 45 and then now 40mg. 

Unfortunately I found SA website late and I went through horrible experiences. 

I do have stressful job plus this pandemic doesn't really make things easy as well. But I'm learning alot from SA and more on how to take care of myself, including removing this toxic medication. 

 

I'm glad to hear your journey was safe and smooth at least. 

 

BTW, does SA have phone support or zoom? It will be nice to feel human connection. 

 

 

 

[ChessieCat]

No phone support or zoom.  SA is staffed by a small number of unpaid volunteers who assist members as they are able.  SA is an extremely busy site with a lot of members.  Phone/zoom support would swamp us and be extremely stressful.  Staff are peers who are tapering/post taper so just like regular members we also have to take care of ourselves.  We also have our own lives to live.  Some staff members are also working full time but still find time to assist members.

 

Check out these topics:

 

would-you-be-open-to-being-my-phone-friend

 

survivingantidepressantorg-members-near-you

(not all are listed in Post #1 so you could try searching for your own area if it is not in the list)

 

12 minutes ago, freeaway said:

Yes, I did go from 50 to 45 and then now 40mg. 

Unfortunately I found SA website late and I went through horrible experiences. 

 

SA's tapering protocol is to reduce by no more than 10% of the CURRENT dose followed by a hold of about 4 weeks to allow the brain to adapt to not getting as much of the drug.

 

50mg to 45mg was a 10% reduction

 

45mg to 40mg was a 11.1111% reduction

 

If you reduced from 40mg to 35mg that would be a 12.5% decrease

 

A 10% reduction from 45mg is 40.5mg (calculation 45 x 0.9).

 

Because you have reduced by more than 10% then my suggestion would be to hold for at least 5 weeks before making the next reduction.

 

The next reduction would be to 36mg.

 

SA recommends not making another reduction whilst you are experiencing withdrawal symptoms.  It is called withdrawal normal.  See:

 

Stability

WDnormal

 

Brassmonkey has explained it some more here:

 

☼-brassmonkey-talking-about-myself

 

Please see these topics which explain when the dose reduction is calculated on the current dose, not the starting dose.  There are comparison graphs in Post #1 of both topics:

 

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

Why taper paper: dose-occupancy curves

[Kevman2112]

@freeaway I was comforted in reading your experience because it is very similar to mine in withdrawal of from Pristiq.  I’m sorry we are both going through this.

 

I am experiencing the same adrenaline rush you described, primarily in the mornings with significant improvement in the evenings.  I am currently taking 25mg in the morning and splitting a 25mg in half and taking it in the early afternoon.  The mornings are rough, I feel restless, jittery, generally out of it and unable to focus, and on certain days, panic attacks and intrusive thoughts.  I have stagnated in terms of improvement over the last 2 weeks so it was very helpful to understand the waves and windows cycle. 
 

Based purely on personal experience, I suspect that Pristiq, an SNRI, plays a significant role in the restlessness/jittery/panic.  
 

Hang in there, we will both heal in time. 

[freeaway]

Hi @ChessieCat, thank you for your busy time. I didn't realize how much of hard work sacrifice SA members were putting in for others. 

I really appreciate it. 

 

The reason why I was down to 40mg was from the doctor's advice, she said there isn't much of difference so she prescribed 40mg.

Now I know even a small number can make a difference. It really sucks that doctors are not the one who is guiding us properly. =( 

 

Hi

@Kevman2112, thank you for your message and support. It is nice to meet someone with same medication withdrawal. I totally sympathize your pain and struggle.

I've been there and I am still there in a way but glad to find SA. Until I found SA I thought it was me or my brain that was broke but it was all sudden mass drop of medication.

 

I hear Pristiq is one of the hardest drug to taper off, what we are doing is extremely brave.

One thing I did learn from this is that I am stronger than I thought, even more than people who never suffered from anxiety or medication withdrawal.

Even with all this chaos in our minds and body we still manage to work, take care family and others. 

 

I also want to wish you best luck from bottom of my heart.

 

Keep me posted on how you are doing as well. =)

 

 

 

 

[freeaway]

Hi, I have a question.

 

If I am having withdrawal symptoms (feeling depressed) am I doing my tapering wrong?

 

Ex: Anxiety which I always had even while being on Pristiq is there already but I get these random low mood like depression for few days and it disappears. 

I just read on SA one of the thread according to Dr. Joseph Glenmullen we are not supposed to feel or have any symptoms while tapering off?

Am I getting this right? 

 

I was wondering if I may need to do 5% rate instead of 10%?

 

Thank you.

 

 

[freeaway]

@Shep @Altostrata @ChessieCat

 

Good morning, I am bit worried about this depression feeling lasting for about 5 days now. I was doing pretty good without feeling this down for few weeks. I'm just scared if this will be a everyday thing.

My emotions are up and down so many times throughout the day.

I was concerned if my WD causing all this. Is feeling depressed also part of sign of healing? 

I am supposed to start lowering my Pristiq from 40mg to 36mg today. Maybe I need to hold off for another month?

 

Thank you for your time.

 

 

 

[freeaway]

It is already extremely difficult trying come off from this damm medicine and what these doctors charge is insane!

I'm just stuck with this system for years now and there is no fast way out. I'm so furious that I even have to continue to take this poison and top of it pay these darn crooks money to give more. 

ONLY 30 min of consult charging $400!!! plus medication cost is like $100. 

Not like the medicine is even making your life better or giving support. We all go through hell feeling miserable while coming off.

 

How do you deal with this anger inside of being a victim?

Every time I am suffering I get so mad and angry at my doctor for giving me medicine.

 

 

 

 

[Altostrata]

Are you tapering Pristiq? Please update your signature.

 

When was the last time you made a dosage reduction?

 

Please see ChessieCat's posts about taper rate.

 

Any doctor can prescribe these drugs, it doesn't have to be a high-paid psychiatrist. Your GP may agree to write your prescriptions.